Nurturing Curiosity, Equity & Social Change in the Classroom

In this week's episode of Equity Hour, Dr. Tami is joined by Gabriell Gater, Founder and CEO of The Innovative Learners.  Dr. Tami and Gabriell discuss the essential elements of fostering empathy, curiosity, and social change in educational settings. They emphasize leading with empathy, learning from students' experiences, and cultivating a classroom environment centered on inclusivity and diversity. The conversation explores the power of diverse texts and resources in engaging students and promoting cultural relevance. Beyond traditional assessments, they challenge educators to rethink their approach and embrace deeper learning opportunities. Through collaboration and community building, they empower students to become agents of change in their communities. Don't miss out on actionable tips and insights to transform your classroom into a space where all students thrive.

Gabriell's website: https://theinnovativelearners.com/

Coaching Discovery Call

Discovery Call

Transcript

Tami: 0:32

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Dragonfly Rising Podcast with me your host, Dr. Tammy Dean.

Gabriell podcast: 0:39

I am

Tami: 0:40

like beyond excited today for our podcast guest. Today we have with us Gabrielle Gator. She is the

Gabriell podcast: 0:48

founder and CEO of

Tami: 0:50

innovative learners. they're an amazing tutoring agency that helps students with reading, writing, and math embedded with culturally relevant instruction. So we know we love that. We're excited about that. And I cannot wait to dig into what she does and what has she, she has done and is doing and all the great things today. So welcome Gabrielle.

Gabriell: 1:12

Thank you. It's so nice

Gabriell podcast: 1:14

be

Gabriell: 1:14

here. I'm very excited to

Gabriell podcast: 1:16

about

Gabriell: 1:16

that.

Gabriell podcast: 1:18

Me

Tami: 1:18

too. Me too. Y'all, you know how I

Gabriell podcast: 1:20

about diverse tags and Gabrielle

Tami: 1:22

is also a

Gabriell podcast: 1:22

a fan. So I'm

Tami: 1:24

dig into that a little bit. Here today as well. But, um, Gabrielle, I really wanted to start at, you know, cause I start every episode with my guests wanting

Gabriell podcast: 1:33

hear a little bit

Tami: 1:34

about your equity journey,

Gabriell podcast: 1:36

because I believe it's a

Tami: 1:38

marathon, right. Versus a sprint and we all start somewhere and have this unique trajectory. So tell us a little bit about your personal equity work journey.

Gabriell podcast: 1:50

Absolutely.

Gabriell: 1:51

And I love how you. Kind of started off as equity work because, um, that's an essentially what it is, but my mother was a teacher, and I always still to this day think it's such a sacred position to be in front of students and be able to pour into them. It can change the trajectory of their lives, either for the positive or the negative. So I take it very seriously. And I finally got the opportunity to, you know, Pursue that. And so I was teaching. Um, I've lived a lot of places. I'm originally from Texas, and so I started teaching in Houston. I didn't want to tell anybody I was a first year teacher, you know, any stigmas and things like that. But, no lesson plan, no coach. It

Gabriell podcast: 2:38

just, they

Gabriell: 2:39

threw me in there.

Gabriell podcast: 2:40

Um, that's what

Tami: 2:41

they do.

Gabriell podcast: 2:41

unfortunately. That's what they do. You,

Gabriell: 2:43

That's how they do you, but, I loved it. I

Gabriell podcast: 2:47

actually

Gabriell: 2:47

loved it because I got the, I had the ability to be as creative. And so because I had no background,

Gabriell podcast: 2:54

I,

Gabriell: 2:54

I had, you know, tutored and things like that, but

Gabriell podcast: 2:56

I

Gabriell: 2:57

led with me wanting to

Gabriell podcast: 2:59

the teacher

Gabriell: 2:59

that I never had as a black girl growing up. In Texas, where all my teachers were white, and me and my friend was the only two black girls in the

Gabriell podcast: 3:08

class. Um,

Gabriell: 3:09

so I led with that, and so, I've just consistently let that lead my decision making. Um, so, from Houston, I, I always want to push things and do things to the max.

Gabriell podcast: 3:21

I was like,

Gabriell: 3:22

I want to go to New York, I want to live in Harlem, I want to work in Harlem, so I can be a better teacher, and everybody thought I was stupid. Crazy. Um, I don't have any family in New York. I just moved out there.

Gabriell podcast: 3:34

and, uh, yeah, right. We love a little crazy, you know, love it. I love it.

Gabriell: 3:40

Crazy. My mama was like, don't smile at nobody. But it was amazing. I was, I'm so glad. And also I went to, I taught at a school, Harlem Children's Zone, where it's a, it was a holistic teaching

Gabriell podcast: 3:52

method, right?

Gabriell: 3:53

Everybody was black. The, you know, The owner was black. I had never experienced this wraparound kind of the way the charter system works, you

Gabriell podcast: 4:02

know, so they would provide

Gabriell: 4:03

like health care and things like that. However, I still found discrepancies within the curriculum because it didn't reflect the students that I was giving it to.

Gabriell podcast: 4:13

Um,

Gabriell: 4:13

And my favorite example of this is I was teaching a child and he's like, Miss, what's a lawn? You know, because he lives, he lives in New York and they don't, they don't have lawns there. And I explained to him what it was, but if I wasn't there in that classroom, he would have got that whole passage wrong. And I can imagine that that has happened in many other situations in many other classrooms. And as a teacher, there's just no time to teach how you want to, what you want to, the books you want to, what you know your kids need, especially if you have a curriculum that's given to you. Um, or if you decide to create your own curriculum, there's no space for you to actually do that and be a successful teacher. So, um, I kind of led with frustration into my equity work. I was like, I can't get it in this classrooms. I'm

Gabriell podcast: 4:57

get

Gabriell: 4:58

it for myself. You know,

Gabriell podcast: 4:59

Yeah.

Gabriell: 4:59

And that the, my tutoring agency wasn't supposed to be this grand business that it is now. I just saw an old white man at a library tutoring somebody. I was like, I could

Gabriell podcast: 5:09

that. Right? Yes!

Gabriell: 5:12

and, on Craigslist, you got to make an icon to list your services. So I just made a little quick logo. So I could be on Craigslist and it

Gabriell podcast: 5:20

took

Gabriell: 5:20

off from there,

Tami: 5:21

On Craigslist. Oh, we're going way back.

Gabriell: 5:24

way back.

Tami: 5:26

so I'm curious. Is this

Gabriell podcast: 5:27

same

Tami: 5:27

icon you have now? Like, has it stuck the whole time or have you innovated it?

Gabriell: 5:31

I kept

Gabriell podcast: 5:31

it

Gabriell: 5:31

for like two years. I innovated it for a year and now we got

Gabriell podcast: 5:35

Yeah, I love that though, like the trajectory of growth, right? Yeah,

Gabriell: 5:40

yeah, yeah. But the name was the same,

Gabriell podcast: 5:42

you know, the name has been the

Gabriell: 5:43

same. Um, so from there it just grew into this beautiful. I didn't realize how much autonomy and agency I was giving to myself. And because that I could continue to lead with being the teacher for black and brown students that I know they need and may not

Gabriell podcast: 6:01

getting.

Gabriell: 6:02

So now I was able to do that. For nationwide, really internationally as well. And so it

Gabriell podcast: 6:09

grew from

Gabriell: 6:10

there. And 2022, I made the decision to move to Chicago so I could pursue with a business full time. And 2020 happened. We went a hundred percent virtual. So we have a, a team of teachers who are, they are like, if you're, I was going to put this in an Instagram post, but they're, I feel like if you're a parent and you feel like your child's favorite teacher left the classroom, they're probably in my program. Okay,

Tami: 6:36

You should make

Gabriell podcast: 6:37

make that

Tami: 6:38

post. Totally, like, come back and find your kid's

Gabriell podcast: 6:41

favorite teacher. They

Gabriell: 6:42

come here, they come here. Okay.

Tami: 6:45

I love that

Gabriell podcast: 6:46

though,

Tami: 6:46

because what that means is right, and I think this is really important because I think sometimes people think teachers leave the classroom because they're not passionate about the work, and I actually think a lot of times it's because they're so passionate about the work and what they believe is best for kids, and there's so many other political pressures, business pressures, right? Coming down on educators, where they're not seen as the professionals able to make all

Gabriell podcast: 7:14

these

Tami: 7:15

great decisions that you're talking about, like

Gabriell podcast: 7:17

the right text, like, and especially

Tami: 7:18

right now, because this pendulum is shifting so far towards like, scripted curriculum, and That really just

Gabriell podcast: 7:27

away

Tami: 7:27

the ability for educators

Gabriell podcast: 7:29

respond

Tami: 7:30

in the way that kids need, and to really differentiate and support their needs. Like, I mean, I'm, I know I'm preaching the choir here, but like,

Gabriell podcast: 7:38

yes. So

Tami: 7:39

back to, right,

Gabriell podcast: 7:40

teachers

Tami: 7:41

don't always leave the

Gabriell podcast: 7:41

classroom because they don't

Tami: 7:43

want to be a teacher. They're just trying to find other ways

Gabriell podcast: 7:47

Yeah. to do what it

Tami: 7:47

is that matters for kids.

Gabriell: 7:50

Exactly. And be a human, you know,

Gabriell podcast: 7:52

Yeah. That's what teachers are, human. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Gabriell: 7:56

whenever people ask me, I'm like, I can go to the bathroom whenever I want now. So. You know, when you teach, you, you've got three minutes in between passing periods, you know, so it's

Gabriell podcast: 8:08

like

Gabriell: 8:08

little things like that. It's so freeing. And like you said, the way that politically it is, I, they, I would not have made it, you know, I don't, I teach middle school, but my, my mother is a college professor and she talked to us like adults, you know, I, I'm not good at sugarcoating things like this is what happened. And I can explain it in a way they understand, you know. Um, but yeah, I, I can't, it's not fair to them, you

Gabriell podcast: 8:36

know. Yeah, absolutely.

Tami: 8:38

Absolutely. I agree. I agree. I agree because

Gabriell podcast: 8:43

I

Tami: 8:43

just feel like there's such a deficit mindset around. Kids and their ability

Gabriell podcast: 8:51

and

Tami: 8:52

their agency. And, you know, when we think about, I'm going to

Gabriell podcast: 8:57

jump

Tami: 8:57

for just one second,

Gabriell podcast: 8:58

but you

Tami: 8:58

know, when you think about right.

Gabriell podcast: 8:59

And diverse

Gabriell: 9:00

tax and they represent all this life. And like, I feel like people often think that students. Don't live in the world and experience the world and have things happening in their life and things, right? They don't walk around in a little bubble. We're not like they they are a part of it and They things are happening to them and they have feelings and they have family, you know, and when we

Gabriell podcast: 9:25

ignore

Tami: 9:27

all of these things

Gabriell podcast: 9:29

We're missing out like we're missing

Tami: 9:30

the opportunity

Gabriell podcast: 9:31

right like I, agree,

Gabriell: 9:35

it teaching, you're not teaching your, you're doing a monologue, you know, like I've been in classes where they're like to a job and I taught and I did a demo lesson and they're like, the lesson was great, but why didn't you read the script? I was like, I'm sorry. I thought

Gabriell podcast: 9:49

wanted

Gabriell: 9:50

me to like, no, like some schools really just want you to be there and read what they say and they train the children to respond and sit like,

Gabriell podcast: 9:57

you

Gabriell: 9:58

know, cross legged and. I mean, call and response is cool, but also like, you know what I'm saying? These, these

Gabriell podcast: 10:06

do. That's why I'm laughing right now. I know you all can't see

Tami: 10:08

me, but I'm laughing right now. Yes. Because,

Gabriell podcast: 10:12

well, when it's an

Tami: 10:12

authentic call and response,

Gabriell podcast: 10:14

right? Like, Hey, like at church, you

Gabriell: 10:17

know, that's cool. You know, respond how you want to respond, but they're like,

Gabriell podcast: 10:21

or even

Tami: 10:23

students are really excited and engaged in a lesson and they're like, Oh my God, Dr. Dean.

Gabriell podcast: 10:27

That's,

Tami: 10:28

you know, that made me think of this and this, like

Gabriell podcast: 10:31

the

Tami: 10:31

ability to, yeah. For students to bring in connections, like

Gabriell podcast: 10:35

their,

Tami: 10:36

bring in their funds and knowledge, bring in the connections. Like that is how we learn as humans. We are not robots. We are not assembly lines. And I am concerned how

Gabriell: 10:50

Yes.

Gabriell podcast: 10:51

how

Tami: 10:51

we're moving in that direction.

Gabriell podcast: 10:53

This,

Tami: 10:55

this idea of. You know, fidelity, and talked a little bit about this with Dr. Katrina Linder from, UW

Gabriell podcast: 11:01

UW

Tami: 11:02

Oshkosh, where we were talking about the scripted, literacy curriculum, and how it's taking away the ability for people to have culturally responsive instruction, and to be creative. In their instruction, like all these things that you were just, just talking about, I want to empower educators with, in spite of, right, I want to think of it like this way, in spite of these things that are coming at you. You still have a voice and agency to try to integrate some of these components and pieces as best you can,

Gabriell podcast: 11:43

right? Yes. I

Tami: 11:45

I mean, this work is important to me because to me it's advocating for educators, which at the end of the day is advocating for students.

Gabriell podcast: 11:53

Yeah,

Gabriell: 11:54

And it's a calling on you and I feel like you're not moving in your purpose if you are trying to read from a script and it also when you are able to be vulnerable with students when students feel seen in your classroom, and that doesn't mean hip hop in the ABCs. I'm talking about students feel like authentically able to be

Gabriell podcast: 12:20

themselves.

Gabriell: 12:21

You cannot teach that child if they don't trust you. So in order for them to receive whatever academic instruction you're going to give to them, you have to, to make them feel like this is a safe space for them. And we use that term a lot, but that's how you create those spaces. And so then they also feel safe to make mistakes. At the beginning of all of my tutoring sessions with my children and other teachers as well, we always start the first 10 minutes. We're not teaching. We are checking in with students. We are building that rapport. We are following up because if something is on that child's mind, if you don't acknowledge that, that's the only thing they're going to be thinking about. If something in the lesson could trigger what happened that you didn't cover because you didn't uncover it in the first place. I tell you what, when I used to teach in Harlem. You know, I, I'll teach in Harlem. You know what I'm

Tami: 13:08

saying? We would start,

Gabriell: 13:24

I started every, I started second semester. I started every class, I would turn the lights off and we would meditate because I even want you to shed anything that happened in the last class or anything that happened in lunch. So it's kind of like a reset, you know?

Gabriell podcast: 13:38

So

Gabriell: 13:39

it's, it's very important and necessary because once you do that, forget the bell, forget your bell ringer. You only have 45 minutes in order to make that time. impactful, you have to remember that you are teaching human beings, you know?

Tami: 13:56

Yes.

Gabriell podcast: 13:58

They are human

Tami: 13:59

beings. Absolutely. And absolutely. I think that's

Gabriell podcast: 14:04

important. And I,

Tami: 14:04

And I

Gabriell podcast: 14:05

think.

Tami: 14:06

we sometimes miss the boat in this conversation. the focus on the academic, recognizing that you can't get deep in the academic, like you said, if there's all this other stuff happening. And I try to remind adults, children are smaller, younger humans. So think about how challenging it is as an

Gabriell podcast: 14:32

adult to sometimes

Tami: 14:36

be in a space, maybe to go teach for the day. Maybe something really powerful is happening in your own personal life. The challenge going in to teach and trying to put that in the back of your mind, that's hard. That's hard as an adult person.

Gabriell podcast: 14:54

Yeah.

Tami: 14:55

So how do you think and make consideration for your young, emerging, learning humans,

Gabriell podcast: 15:03

Mm hmm.

Tami: 15:03

right? The same. And gosh, isn't meditation great for all of us? Like, doesn't

Gabriell podcast: 15:08

that help as an adult person to, you know, like, let me just

Tami: 15:14

reframe. I love that how you said a fresh start.

Gabriell podcast: 15:19

Yeah.

Tami: 15:19

Each class is a fresh start.

Gabriell podcast: 15:21

Each day

Tami: 15:22

is a fresh

Gabriell podcast: 15:22

start.

Tami: 15:23

I think

Gabriell podcast: 15:24

that's

Tami: 15:24

really important with engaging in students because it's really easy to try to hold on

Gabriell podcast: 15:30

to something that, you know, happened

Tami: 15:34

and,

Gabriell podcast: 15:35

almost expecting perfection

Tami: 15:37

out of children That our children number one, but number two, they're human and none of us are perfection

Gabriell: 15:47

Right, right, right. And acknowledging that. And I also want to make sure that people, when we say easy, I don't want people to think that I got up there and led the class in meditation every day. That's not what happened. Okay. It would be the same three little YouTube videos on rotation. Yeah, I played that. And then kids get used to the structure, so they're, they're accused, you know, and humans are this. We're the same way when I'm at my desk. I mean, it's time to work. So I just

Gabriell podcast: 16:16

to preface.

Gabriell: 16:17

I don't want people

Gabriell podcast: 16:17

think

Gabriell: 16:18

like, Oh, I'm this, you know, holistic. I would do a guided minute. I ain't doing all of that, you know, because sometimes I

Gabriell podcast: 16:23

need to sit

Gabriell: 16:23

at my desk reset. Yes.

Tami: 16:28

tip right like build an comfortable system that you can Use effectively, efficiently, repeatedly, and it builds familiarity and comfort and comes back to that safe space you were talking about and building, like, I can anticipate. I know what's.

Gabriell podcast: 16:48

coming. Yes.

Tami: 16:50

and because I know what's coming and it's consistent, maybe I can let some of my walls down and let you in a little bit. Let's talk some more about your, your tutoring, what you do in your, your tutoring business there, how you

Gabriell podcast: 17:06

integrate

Tami: 17:07

culturally responsive teaching. So tell me, tell me all the things.

Gabriell: 17:11

Yes. So everything I'm saying, like, that's exactly what we

Gabriell podcast: 17:14

in

Gabriell: 17:15

all of our sessions, whether I'm teaching them or not, because it's built into the curriculum. so those brain breaks, those wiggle breaks, the best part, the most affirming part, and honestly, the part that I feel like makes students grow so much is the fact that it is culturally relevant. And so it's reflective of them. The kids are seeing images of themselves. As far as kindergarten, we go all the way up to high schoolers. And it's sparking curiosity. So in my program, students will grow at least three rate reading levels within 12

Gabriell podcast: 17:51

weeks.

Gabriell: 17:52

Some kids grow five.

Gabriell podcast: 17:54

And it,

Gabriell: 17:55

It is a transformative program, and I and I know I'm biased because I'm the owner and founder, but I'm the one I test every single kid that comes into the program. I do a reading test with them, and then I test them every three months. And when I first started doing it. I was like, okay, very nervous. But even to this day, I have so much data that shows that it still doesn't like that's the best part of it to see these kids grow and to

Gabriell podcast: 18:22

able to

Gabriell: 18:23

read, read books and words that they were not able to before. And we're also instilling in them self confidence.

Gabriell podcast: 18:31

because.

Gabriell: 18:32

now, I mean, you, once you have established it, I can, I can just do something confidently at that age that can catapult you into so many possibilities. My first, my first. Child my first student. he was

Gabriell podcast: 18:49

uh, undiagnosed

Gabriell: 18:50

dyslexia. He was in second grade reading on a kindergarten level, and he's still in the program to this day, and he reads better than

Gabriell podcast: 19:00

almost

Gabriell: 19:00

everybody in the he's in a different class now,

Gabriell podcast: 19:04

um,

Gabriell: 19:05

And but it's beautiful because not only

Gabriell podcast: 19:07

does he

Gabriell: 19:07

have this self confidence, he wants to be an architect. He wants to do all of these things. His parents are feeding that into him, but also it's he's he's sharing his light with other kids that he sees are also struggling just

Gabriell podcast: 19:20

like he was

Gabriell: 19:22

and verbalizing that there's so much. emotion that goes into the classroom. Kids just say things without them ever being prompted. And I'm shocked every single time. And so I started recording it. And like this last year, I started, like, putting little snippets of it on my

Gabriell podcast: 19:39

Instagram.

Tami: 19:40

Yeah.

Gabriell: 19:41

oh, my gosh. But the most

Gabriell podcast: 19:42

thing was

Gabriell: 19:43

I had a group of middle schoolers and they were not You know, they're all kind of reading on

Gabriell podcast: 19:48

levels

Gabriell: 19:48

they were all male. And the benefit of my program also is that I don't group students by, okay, this is a fifth grade class, a fourth grade class. I group them by level

Gabriell podcast: 19:59

and age appropriateness.

Gabriell: 20:01

So Everybody is on

Gabriell podcast: 20:03

same

Gabriell: 20:03

level. So there is this no stigma where such and such is reading better than such and such. And, you know, kids feel comfortable to, to, to practice reading. And we just got done with the session and these kids are like, they're 13 year olds, male, you know, reading isn't cool. You know what I'm

Gabriell podcast: 20:20

saying? Oh, I do. I used to teach

Tami: 20:21

middle school. Mm

Gabriell podcast: 20:24

We're here.

Gabriell: 20:25

And so we're logging off and he's like, okay, I love you guys. And I was like, oh

Gabriell podcast: 20:31

gosh,

Gabriell: 20:32

that it just because that's how vulnerable and that's how comfortable we made this space. And

Gabriell podcast: 20:39

so

Gabriell: 20:40

that also is a part of being culturally responsive. Right.

Tami: 20:44

hmm.

Gabriell: 20:45

Learning is a collaborative experience, and we're able to create that in ways that the modern classroom is getting further and further away from. And once. You have that child who's able to feel comfortable. It's kind of like you're, you've got the wound open

Gabriell podcast: 21:02

Now

Gabriell: 21:02

you can put the medicine in so it can heal, you know? So our medicine is our like reading methods and the texts that we pick out and You know, kids are reading also not just about things in the past, but things that are happening right now in the future, so they also

Gabriell podcast: 21:19

know that they're

Gabriell: 21:19

an active part of history, and we talk about, you know, incorporating technology and so like all of these topics.

Gabriell podcast: 21:28

so

Gabriell: 21:29

it is engaging for them, and they also it sparks curiosity and they want to learn more about it so I love it's like the ideal classroom, you know.

Tami: 21:39

Yes. Yes. I, I, I appreciate that. And I, I hope one of the takeaways people really hear is that I think sometimes people think culturally relevant needs to be this like huge thing, but it really starts with building that community, the safe space. integrating meaningful connections with your students, right? Like I always say, be, be wary of like, I just picked the person at this book because there's a Brown person in there

Gabriell podcast: 22:10

and

Tami: 22:11

it is, you know, do a little work around the authenticity

Gabriell podcast: 22:16

around that,

Tami: 22:17

right? Like it's more than just picking the book because there's a Black or Brown person in the

Gabriell podcast: 22:22

book or an Asian person in the book or an indigenous person in the book. Y'all. Okay.

Tami: 22:27

you got to go deeper than that. Right?

Gabriell podcast: 22:28

Like, thank you. Like,

Tami: 22:31

I appreciate if you've started there. Now think about how do you really go deeper and

Gabriell podcast: 22:34

ask the meaningful

Tami: 22:36

questions there? So, oh, I love that. I love,

Gabriell podcast: 22:39

no, Thank you. and

Tami: 22:43

here's, here's what I think is, is super powerful. When kids get to see themselves, As a reader, because I think, especially when you get to middle school kids, they've almost been told for so long that they are not capable of being a reader. So I was a middle school teacher and I was working on my, Master's degree and was doing action research around culturally relevant texts. And I was, you know, my sixth grade, we were all the way like 10th grade reading levels, second grade

Gabriell podcast: 23:15

level, like, yeah, yeah. I get you.

Gabriell: 23:18

I was there. I get

Gabriell podcast: 23:19

you a whole gamut, right?

Tami: 23:21

bringing in books, we actually read, like, Bud, Not Buddy, this was part of my,

Gabriell podcast: 23:26

um, master's research,

Tami: 23:28

we read Bud, Not Buddy, and just the light from these students when we, you know, did community work, there was a lot of scaffolding, but it, like, the power of a text,

Gabriell podcast: 23:40

People are like, where are more books?

Tami: 23:43

Like

Gabriell podcast: 23:43

this, Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Tami: 23:45

right. And so when you see these kids take this on, like I had kids that I always think of this one young man in particular, he was always very hard on himself. His technical reading level when he came was like a second grade reading level, like, right, like he jumped back up to grade level by the time he left at the end of the school year. And that's when the

Gabriell podcast: 24:05

goblet of fire

Tami: 24:06

came out. Okay. So this young man went from not reading to walking around reading the goblet of fire.

Gabriell: 24:13

Oh my

Gabriell podcast: 24:14

gosh. In

Tami: 24:15

his free

Gabriell podcast: 24:16

time. Right, right. This book is this big, like, it's like, oh

Gabriell: 24:20

my gosh.

Tami: 24:22

And just image just always

Gabriell podcast: 24:25

stays

Tami: 24:26

with me

Gabriell podcast: 24:26

he's

Tami: 24:27

just like one example of a student and the power of feeling connection, being told you're capable,

Gabriell podcast: 24:36

Yes

Tami: 24:37

being supported with ways to do that.

Gabriell: 24:42

Yes,

Tami: 24:43

I don't even know, I don't even know where this

Gabriell podcast: 24:47

man is.

Tami: 24:48

I did run into one of those students in his class years later. Um,

Gabriell podcast: 24:54

I

Tami: 24:54

was working with, my undergraduate alma mater, and they had this Milano program. So where they would partner, previous first gen college students with new first gen students. And I was there and there was this guy who's doing his internship for his master's degree, you

Gabriell podcast: 25:12

know, and there's just something

Tami: 25:13

about him. Right. And it didn't click. I got home. I had an email. He was one of my sixth grade

Gabriell podcast: 25:20

Oh my gosh.

Tami: 25:23

and he had sent me this email about I just. Enjoyed being in your class. Like

Gabriell podcast: 25:29

oh, I don't, you may

Tami: 25:30

not remember me, but as soon as I saw his name written, I was like, Oh my God, I know exactly who you

Gabriell podcast: 25:35

are. Yeah. Yeah.

Gabriell: 25:36

Wow. Enter his map. That's amazing. That's

Gabriell podcast: 25:40

right? So amazing. I just tell that

Tami: 25:43

story just because

Gabriell podcast: 25:45

it matters. you just don't even know

Tami: 25:49

in what way it's going to come to fruition.

Gabriell: 25:52

And you have to be okay with sitting with the fact that you may never know,

Gabriell podcast: 25:56

but this is true. You You know, knowing that you

Gabriell: 25:58

planted a seed and you just trust the process and, you know, hope that no one steps on that seed after you planted it. As well.

Gabriell podcast: 26:11

Um,

Gabriell: 26:11

and something else you said about but not buddy. I think when we think about culturally

Gabriell podcast: 26:16

teaching,

Gabriell: 26:17

we always focus on the cultural part, but then the responsive part. So when you hearing that your kids were like, we want more books like that. Okay, so then that's where we respond. And it, it really is. Even like in my business, going to see what works and then altering and adjusting and changing

Gabriell podcast: 26:38

and being responsive

Gabriell: 26:40

is being okay to sit with change. And I feel like as teachers were taught, they give us a structure, like 15 minutes for this, then this, and then some people are married to that and they feel afraid to deviate, but being responsive is being okay to, to sit with something and say, you know what, I'm going to have to put this aside because this is something that we have to address right now. And I was going to share this in the beginning but I will we talk about. Culturally responsive teaching. I used to raise all hell about teaching these black books in black history. I mean, I was going hard. I taught ELA for a long time,

Gabriell podcast: 27:18

but my last

Gabriell: 27:19

year teaching in

Gabriell podcast: 27:19

classroom,

Gabriell: 27:20

they're like, you know what, girl, we're gonna put you in social studies since you got so much to say.

Gabriell podcast: 27:24

And I

Gabriell: 27:24

I was like,

Gabriell podcast: 27:24

like, whatever, you know, they're like, okay, fine. You

Gabriell: 27:28

know, it's still reading. That's cool with me. And, one of my, uh, co teachers and friends and collaborative now, I was reaching out to her. I'd never taught social studies. So she was like, we're going to do, I mean, and she goes hard, you know? And so she was like, we're going to do this lesson. Like the first month we're just doing introductory, Like rapport building, culture building, that's what we're

Gabriell podcast: 27:51

doing different from

Gabriell: 27:53

ELA, you get maybe a week of

Gabriell podcast: 27:55

that.

Gabriell: 27:56

So I was

Gabriell podcast: 27:56

okay, so the

Gabriell: 27:57

first lesson we did, we created, was this, gender identity lesson. Which is a very, I mean, I was in New York,

Gabriell podcast: 28:04

you

Gabriell: 28:04

know, in the South, they would have kicked me out of school. And so, teaching different gender identities, and, and we made a gender person snowman, so people could know like how you feel in your head, how you identify. Your organs, how

Gabriell podcast: 28:19

were

Gabriell: 28:19

at birth. So we can give kids language because even the, the black and brown students that were in our class, everything is racist, racist, racist, racist.

Gabriell podcast: 28:28

right

Gabriell: 28:29

about classism. Um, they don't know about social, you know, so even when it comes to gender identity, people use gay as a derogatory word, you

Gabriell podcast: 28:38

know, just

Gabriell: 28:39

adults and children. So let's, let's, let's, let's give some names to things. So we understand what we're saying. And I was hesitant. I was

Gabriell podcast: 28:46

I was like,

Gabriell: 28:47

you know what, let's do it. Whatever. And so they're not gonna fire me. Y'all

Gabriell podcast: 28:50

need to

Gabriell: 28:50

teachers. That was like

Gabriell podcast: 28:53

my mentality.

Gabriell: 28:53

my whole

Gabriell podcast: 28:54

teaching. That's spicy. I

Tami: 28:57

I

Gabriell podcast: 28:57

like it. Yeah. Yeah. So

Gabriell: 28:59

it's a little problematic, but,

Tami: 29:01

Well, welcome to the club, girl. Welcome to

Gabriell: 29:04

exactly. So we do this lesson. I'm teaching them very responsive, very respectful. Um, because they understand this is serious. I tell you what I had in that moment. A child raised their hand. I had a couple of kids crying because they were members in their family that

Gabriell podcast: 29:25

that they, they

Gabriell: 29:25

had not been affirmed yet. I had some students who were struggling with their identities had not been affirmed yet. and, and they came to me in private and kind of expressed that to me. And, and, and

Gabriell podcast: 29:38

sixth

Gabriell: 29:38

grader let me know how thankful they were that we were able to have this conversation

Gabriell podcast: 29:42

someone

Gabriell: 29:42

in their house identified and, you know, wouldn't, wouldn't never know. Also, I had a child raise their hand. It was like, well, what happens if you see, you know, just asking me questions about situations they had experienced. So, we had to, Move away from that and respond and make it kind of like an open discussion

Gabriell podcast: 30:04

because

Gabriell: 30:04

these kids have so many questions and so many curiosities and as sixth graders, instead of asking questions a lot of time because it's not necessarily built into the lesson, they'll take that curiosity, they'll take that confusion and they'll turn it into jokes on each other back and forth.

Gabriell podcast: 30:18

If you don't

Gabriell: 30:19

address it about what it's supposed to be,

Gabriell podcast: 30:21

And

Gabriell: 30:23

I am so glad I did that in the beginning of my classroom at the beginning of the year, because that set the precedent that know where you can come to me for so many things late later on that that same child in that same class. And I took her laptop from her because something was wrong with it, so she gave it to me.

Gabriell podcast: 30:44

I

Gabriell: 30:44

opened up the laptop and it said, she, in her past history, how to kill yourself was in her search bar. And

Gabriell podcast: 30:55

I was

Gabriell: 30:55

like, did you mean to type this? And she was like, I did. And so we had a conversation. I transferred it over

Gabriell podcast: 31:04

the

Gabriell: 31:04

counselor. Her mom came in. We had a whole,

Gabriell podcast: 31:09

uh,

Gabriell: 31:09

you know, I was

Gabriell podcast: 31:10

a school

Gabriell: 31:10

that was able to

Gabriell podcast: 31:12

wrap around her. Yeah,

Gabriell: 31:14

But had I not had that

Gabriell podcast: 31:17

have to

Gabriell: 31:17

it in the beginning of the class at the beginning of the classroom, that child wouldn't have felt comfortable saying anything to me. And that's not the first time that has happened to me.

Gabriell podcast: 31:25

But it's just because

Gabriell: 31:27

as teachers, we kind of have to let go and be okay to be responsive to what our humans are needing in that moment. And it goes back to what you were saying, if we were dealing with something strong in our life, how effectively would we perform in whatever career that we're doing in that moment. So we have to remember that and, and focus also on that response and being okay with change. You know, I think type A people make great teachers, but being type A works only in certain situations when you're in the classroom dealing with 25

Gabriell podcast: 32:04

little kids,

Gabriell: 32:05

big kids, you know.

Gabriell podcast: 32:07

I,

Tami: 32:08

I do. I do. Wow. That's

Gabriell podcast: 32:10

a powerful,

Tami: 32:13

powerful story. I really appreciate you sharing that with us because those are just moments that you can't get back. If you think of it that way, right? And I know, like, for myself, I've never regretted spending time getting to know

Gabriell podcast: 32:33

my students,

Tami: 32:34

and I know that can feel really challenging in the current classroom environment with all of the pressures and timelines. And deadlines and talk of fidelity. It hurts my heart that we've forgotten that this isn't about a test. And I know that they exist. Right. And I know we're navigating in this unfortunate space around

Gabriell podcast: 33:08

the importance

Tami: 33:08

of them, but what happens there doesn't. matter if we're

Gabriell podcast: 33:13

totally

Tami: 33:14

disengaging from the humans and the human element of questioning and curiosity and, and critical thinking. And you said something about the kids asking questions and being curious. And

Gabriell podcast: 33:32

and it made me think

Tami: 33:33

that I almost, I think that these current initiatives are killing the curiosity in our students, because they come to us

Gabriell podcast: 33:46

naturally curious.

Tami: 33:49

Humans are naturally

Gabriell podcast: 33:50

curious

Tami: 33:51

beings, right? I mean, y'all have been around a toddler. I

Gabriell podcast: 33:57

why? Why? Why?

Tami: 33:59

Why? Or maybe I could try this, or

Gabriell podcast: 34:01

I could do this, you know? Yeah.

Tami: 34:03

And kids invent things. They're

Gabriell podcast: 34:05

maybe I

Tami: 34:05

could make a da, da, da,

Gabriell podcast: 34:07

Yeah. Or I could think of

Tami: 34:09

this and that, or right.

Gabriell podcast: 34:11

And we need space. We need space for that. Mm

Gabriell: 34:17

Mm hmm.

Gabriell podcast: 34:17

Mm

Gabriell: 34:18

Mm hmm.

Tami: 34:20

need space.

Gabriell: 34:21

The biggest thing, man, you're so right about that curiosity piece. And often as

Gabriell podcast: 34:27

teachers,

Gabriell: 34:28

we ask leading questions, you

Gabriell podcast: 34:31

know,

Tami: 34:33

Yes.

Gabriell: 34:34

And so

Tami: 34:35

Guess

Gabriell podcast: 34:35

what's in my mind, kids. Exactly.

Gabriell: 34:38

And then, you know, when the kid, they kind of like answering off the wall, you know, it's shut down, so we have

Gabriell podcast: 34:46

make

Gabriell: 34:46

sure we're actually, we're actually asking genuinely real questions.

Gabriell podcast: 34:52

And

Gabriell: 34:53

the best teaching advice I received was sitting in the silence.

Gabriell podcast: 34:58

So when

Gabriell: 34:59

you ask a question, and oh my gosh, you just imagine in your imaginary

Gabriell podcast: 35:04

brain,

Gabriell: 35:05

a thousand hands go up, you know, or the same kid answers, raises their hand, but being okay with silence. So kids can think, because if they're there, you don't even give them that space to do the critical thinking process. And then you ask a leading question, the kids are going to answer in a way that matches your lead. And so, They're just telling you what you want to hear, the right answer, just because that is what gets affirmed. Curiosity does not get affirmed.

Gabriell podcast: 35:39

Rabbit,

Gabriell: 35:39

rabbit trails don't get affirmed. Constant questioning does not get affirmed. What gets praised

Gabriell podcast: 35:45

is

Gabriell: 35:45

when you answer the question that the teacher wants. Tell her what you want to hear, you know.

Tami: 35:52

And you do it quickly,

Gabriell podcast: 35:53

right? Oh,

Tami: 35:54

that's so powerful. Be comfortable in the silence. This

Gabriell podcast: 35:56

a

Tami: 35:57

good, this is a good action tip from today, right? Reflect on your wait time, the type of question you're asking and your wait time. I was a professor and I worked with pre service teachers getting them ready to be educators and this is something we talked about a lot because, you know, they ask a question and it's literally like 0. 5 seconds or one second and they're like, no one knows. Okay, well, what

Gabriell podcast: 36:34

about

Tami: 36:34

this?

Gabriell podcast: 36:34

Or

Tami: 36:35

we talked about this yesterday, right? They jump in. Y'all pause, just like, just reflect on that a little bit and just take a few more seconds or just keep waiting because here's the thing, someone's going to fill the silence. If you allow enough space in the silence, somebody's going to fill it.

Gabriell: 37:00

And

Gabriell podcast: 37:01

if it's a

Tami: 37:01

question for clarifying.

Gabriell: 37:02

that's what

Gabriell podcast: 37:03

I was about

Gabriell: 37:03

to say.

Gabriell podcast: 37:05

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Gabriell: 37:07

So adjust for that. Wait till they tell you they don't understand what you mean. Instead of you assuming, and then that person was thinking, thinking, thinking, be like, okay, well, I missed it. You know? So,

Gabriell podcast: 37:20

Yes,

Tami: 37:21

Oh my gosh. Yes. I love it.

Gabriell podcast: 37:23

Oh my gosh. Right on the same page. like Yes. Yes. You there too. so, exactly.

Tami: 37:28

so I know we talked about a little bit about how you choose texts and all these things. I think this kind of connects with curiosity too, right? Because when I

Gabriell podcast: 37:38

myself

Tami: 37:38

now, I'm more curious. So talk to me a little bit about, choosing diverse texts, using diverse texts, you know, all the things,

Gabriell: 37:47

Yes. I, that is my favorite thing. I know this is a podcast,

Gabriell podcast: 37:52

people

Gabriell: 37:52

can't see my background. I know. But I've got this bookshelf with, with two lines of books. I used to have bookshelves full of books just because I am so grateful for the time that we

Gabriell podcast: 38:04

live in,

Gabriell: 38:05

where more people are, more people who look and experience life in different ways are telling their story.

Gabriell podcast: 38:12

I,

Gabriell: 38:13

and I would just. I wouldn't buy them up. I'd tell my principal, you need to buy this and we need to buy this. But it's so important. And also as teachers, we don't necessarily have time to read all the time, but something so you can kind of know what diverse texts are coming out. I've used to watch a lot of booktube, like YouTubers talking about diverse YA books that came out. Just so I can be in the know.

Gabriell podcast: 38:40

And

Gabriell: 38:41

that's important because it's bigger than you purchasing a book and putting it on the shelf. You gotta be able to introduce those books to kids when they're shelving through, Oh, you would like this one, you know? It's almost like I talk to my parents to get them

Gabriell podcast: 38:57

like

Gabriell: 38:57

reading. It's like how Netflix gets us to watch shows.

Gabriell podcast: 39:01

It

Gabriell: 39:01

has

Gabriell podcast: 39:01

be

Gabriell: 39:01

customizable. Everybody likes something that's specially made for them, and you can't recommend a book to a child if you just bought it because the cover looked nice, you know?

Gabriell podcast: 39:12

Yes.

Gabriell: 39:13

So there is some work that you have to do on the back end to put that story in the hand of the student

Gabriell podcast: 39:20

they

Gabriell: 39:20

can feel like it will match what they're going through. And I

Gabriell podcast: 39:24

you

Gabriell: 39:24

doing a good job of this, like putting like book recommendations and on your, I've, I've seen you

Gabriell podcast: 39:30

So,

Gabriell: 39:30

So very important. It's very important.

Gabriell podcast: 39:34

And

Gabriell: 39:35

with that, being okay with it, they're not going to always love everything they read, but, and it doesn't have to be like this drilling situation, like, Oh, what, what happened in the book? Did you even read the book? Just, you know what I

Gabriell podcast: 39:50

just

Gabriell: 39:51

like, let them.

Tami: 39:52

I do. Sometimes

Gabriell podcast: 39:53

books a DNR and

Tami: 39:55

that's okay. Like didn't, oh, DNF did

Gabriell podcast: 39:57

not mean that's right Yeah, Not

Tami: 39:59

our, not DNR did not

Gabriell: 40:00

knew

Gabriell podcast: 40:00

what you were saying. That's okay. I know what you're saying. Thank you. Exactly. Yeah.

Tami: 40:05

And that's okay. Like, but why? Okay. Like,

Gabriell podcast: 40:08

that's a great question.

Tami: 40:09

What was it about this book

Gabriell podcast: 40:10

that didn't

Tami: 40:11

hold your interest?

Gabriell podcast: 40:13

Yeah, that's totally okay.

Gabriell: 40:14

Exactly. And that's exactly when, when Netflix recommends something and we down it, they're like, okay, let me adjust and give you more of this stuff you'd like. And we got to do the same thing with our kids. So yes. Diverse books that that that is my jam and you asked the second part of the question, but I got so excited about talking about books.

Gabriell podcast: 40:34

You know what? I actually don't

Tami: 40:35

even remember what the second part of

Gabriell podcast: 40:36

the question is.

Gabriell: 40:38

you said curiosity and that's something else. I made this blog post. It was a while back

Gabriell podcast: 40:43

and

Gabriell: 40:44

I shouldn't have titled it this, but it was called, having children read inappropriate books. And by inappropriate, I mean books that are not for kids,

Gabriell podcast: 40:54

And

Gabriell: 40:54

I'm not talking about like romance novels and stuff like that. The best way to explain this is, when my, me and my, my mother would take us to the library, me and my little brother, and that was the only place where she could say, y'all can get whatever you want, as much as you want, because everything was free. And so, I was old, I'm older than my brother, and so I was allowed to go to the adult library.

Gabriell podcast: 41:14

that downstairs to

Gabriell: 41:15

look at the adult books and he was so upset that he was forced to be with the baby books. And so, my mom finally let him go down there and, and when I'm talking

Gabriell podcast: 41:24

about.

Gabriell: 41:26

Inappropriate books, I mean books where children don't know what the word means, and

Gabriell podcast: 41:31

I'm, when I'm thinking about nonfiction books,

Gabriell: 41:34

they have a lot of pictures, a lot of diagraphs, and, you know,

Gabriell podcast: 41:39

yeah,

Gabriell: 41:40

taking it away from them because they're like, Oh, you're not going to

Gabriell podcast: 41:43

it. This is

Gabriell: 41:43

kind of more your speed, you know,

Gabriell podcast: 41:46

Um, yes.

Gabriell: 41:48

So when she finally let him down there, he kept gravitating towards the ocean books and the pictures with fish. And, you know, he was like seven, you know, but

Gabriell podcast: 41:58

long story

Gabriell: 41:58

short, now he's a marine biologist

Gabriell podcast: 42:00

because

Gabriell: 42:01

We kept letting him explore and be curious. So when I talk about the type of text that we read in my tutoring sessions, I'm not just talking about pictures with black kids.

Gabriell podcast: 42:13

I'm talking about.

Gabriell: 42:14

when I say culturally responsive, like we're reading what they're doing on NASA today. Did you know that

Gabriell podcast: 42:21

alligators

Gabriell: 42:21

can still be frozen underwater and be alive at the same time? Let's talk about lowering the basketball hoop for men. That's true. And in women and NBA and WNBA, like, that's what I'm talking about. I pull articles and we got all this AI and people scared of AI. Let me tell you something. I put, I copied the article I put in AI and they take it to a sixth grade reading level. So we can still use that article, but

Tami: 42:45

Mm

Gabriell podcast: 42:46

change it

Gabriell: 42:46

to the language that they need.

Gabriell podcast: 42:48

So,

Gabriell: 42:49

things like that, that you don't expect kids to get curiosity from it. I mean, like, Just exposure will spark that and that desire to learn and it's something that I, I now have the space to practice as an adult. I experiment with the, I started sewing, you know, I started growing, I started making bread, like you just have to, you have to practice it as well, you know. So,

Gabriell podcast: 43:14

I do.

Tami: 43:15

The idea of exposure is so important.

Gabriell: 43:17

Mm-Hmm.

Gabriell podcast: 43:18

And

Tami: 43:20

the fact that you're, culturally responsive

Gabriell podcast: 43:23

relevant texts

Tami: 43:24

don't necessarily mean race. That is not what it means.

Gabriell: 43:27

yeah, that's,

Gabriell podcast: 43:28

us. There you go.

Gabriell: 43:29

Yes.

Gabriell podcast: 43:30

It does not

Tami: 43:31

mean race. It means all kinds of And I think this notion about allowing

Gabriell podcast: 43:39

kids to

Tami: 43:40

to explore text is important, right? Because and I would, I would say this a lot I taught a lot of literacy methods courses, right? There's a purpose and an intent for a reading level, and a text level is a teaching

Gabriell podcast: 43:57

tool

Tami: 43:58

to help support their learning. Do you as an adult look at a book and go, is this my reading

Gabriell podcast: 44:04

level? You

Tami: 44:06

absolutely do not. You get the book because it's interesting to you and you may or may not understand all the things that are in it, but you gather from it, whatever it was that interests you. So there's being mindful of the purpose of engaging with particular texts for a particular purpose.

Gabriell podcast: 44:27

purposes. Right? Like,

Tami: 44:30

my heart used to break when I would take my kids, I'd

Gabriell podcast: 44:32

them

Tami: 44:32

to like Barnes and Noble or something, and

Gabriell podcast: 44:34

like, you can pick out

Tami: 44:34

one book, right? And we're in the kids section, and then I would overhear, another parent, and I, I believe they totally mean well,

Gabriell podcast: 44:43

right?

Tami: 44:44

You can't

Gabriell podcast: 44:45

that

Tami: 44:45

book, it's not in your reading level, and

Gabriell podcast: 44:47

so, yeah.

Tami: 44:49

I want us to be mindful as educators, what message are we sharing about that when it comes to this idea around curiosity, around texts, and when you're saying let them explore your story of your brother is a great, great example, right? Maybe he wouldn't have been a marine biologist

Gabriell podcast: 45:06

if he hadn't.

Tami: 45:07

That, you know, your mom hadn't allowed him the opportunity to

Gabriell podcast: 45:11

engage

Tami: 45:12

with those things. So, if you have book boxes in your classroom, allow them to just put some books in there that they're interested in.

Gabriell podcast: 45:19

yes

Gabriell: 45:20

Ex. I

Gabriell podcast: 45:20

love that.

Gabriell: 45:22

I love that. Mm-Hmm.

Gabriell podcast: 45:23

they're still

Tami: 45:24

reading, y'all. And actually, they get to practice some more complex processes and tools with engaging with text and problem solving independently, which is what the ultimate goal is.

Gabriell: 45:38

Ex. Exactly. Exactly.

Gabriell podcast: 45:40

exactly,

Gabriell: 45:41

Is there? Yes.

Gabriell podcast: 45:44

because then they're

Tami: 45:44

going to ask a question. They might be like, you know, I don't, I don't really know. What does,

Gabriell podcast: 45:48

Yeah.

Tami: 45:49

what does this mean?

Gabriell podcast: 45:51

Yeah. And that's learning. Wow.

Gabriell: 45:55

It's a

Tami: 45:55

a crazy concept.

Gabriell podcast: 45:57

Right. Because that's what you do!

Tami: 45:59

Like, I mean, I always think about, like, think about what you do as

Gabriell podcast: 46:02

adult

Tami: 46:02

when you are looking at something you don't understand, you go and ask questions, or

Gabriell podcast: 46:05

you maybe

Tami: 46:05

you go Google it now, right? It's okay if

Gabriell podcast: 46:09

go

Tami: 46:09

Google something that they want to learn

Gabriell podcast: 46:11

for, what does this

Tami: 46:12

word mean? Right? And, you know, always looking it up in the dictionary isn't always very helpful, because sometimes it just says the word,

Gabriell podcast: 46:19

so. Yeah, yeah. And it's like 2024.

Gabriell: 46:23

You know, kids need videos. They need background, you know, um, that is so I love that. And especially if

Gabriell podcast: 46:30

interested

Gabriell: 46:31

in it, you're going to want to know more about it. And also on the flip side, I have parents come to me and they're like, well, they

Gabriell podcast: 46:37

just

Gabriell: 46:37

read comic books. I'm I want them to read real books, you know? Okay. I get, I don't know.

Gabriell podcast: 46:44

think

Gabriell: 46:44

we just have this image of our avid reader just reading this big old chunk of

Gabriell podcast: 46:49

you know,

Gabriell: 46:49

you know?

Gabriell podcast: 46:50

we

Tami: 46:50

have a hierarchy of what we think is a, is a good text or a not good text. I absolutely agree with that. Comic books and graphic novels are really complex texts, y'all.

Gabriell: 47:00

Yes,

Gabriell podcast: 47:02

They,

Tami: 47:02

they have to, they have to infer so much information.

Gabriell podcast: 47:07

That

Tami: 47:08

isn't written

Gabriell podcast: 47:09

because they're interpreting

Tami: 47:11

the

Gabriell podcast: 47:11

multimodal ness

Tami: 47:12

between the text and the images. So, it's actually a very complex text.

Gabriell podcast: 47:18

Thank you.

Tami: 47:19

it, so I just needed

Gabriell podcast: 47:20

say

Tami: 47:20

that because that drives me crazy. Listening to books is also a form of reading books.

Gabriell: 47:26

That's how I read.

Gabriell podcast: 47:27

Oh my god! I love, I love

Tami: 47:29

me a, a, a, I love listening

Gabriell podcast: 47:32

to a book. Especially when you have the

Tami: 47:33

right narrators. I now

Gabriell podcast: 47:35

have favorites. Readers

Tami: 47:36

that I like to listen to.

Gabriell podcast: 47:37

I know I'm like,

Tami: 47:38

Ooh, this is my favorite. She does such a great

Gabriell podcast: 47:40

job.

Gabriell: 47:41

love that. I love that.

Gabriell podcast: 47:43

So you can have

Tami: 47:44

multiple experiences, right? I tend to listen more to fiction than nonfiction. Sometimes I'll listen to a nonfiction book. But I tend to like to write in my nonfiction books. But these are all things I've learned about myself because I was afforded the opportunity to engage with a variety of texts.

Gabriell: 48:01

Mm-Hmm.

Tami: 48:02

And I hope and want this for our students, right? Engaging with these texts. And I'm going to say an unpopular opinion.

Gabriell podcast: 48:13

Not

Tami: 48:14

everyone is going to love to read.

Gabriell podcast: 48:17

Just,

Tami: 48:18

just like not everyone loves math or history or, Or doing

Gabriell podcast: 48:22

dishes or any

Tami: 48:24

of those things, right? We, we have varying, varying degrees of love for certain concepts.

Gabriell podcast: 48:29

But what I

Tami: 48:30

do think is important that everyone has the opportunity to find and be exposed to texts that they find interesting

Gabriell: 48:39

Mm hmm. Mm

Gabriell podcast: 48:40

and engaging. Exactly.

Gabriell: 48:43

And, and know how to seek information, whatever that looks like and whatever model that is for them. That is so important. That is so important. And when you do have those like comic books, it's a good way to create somebody who's an avid, they want to avidly consume something. And instead of like looking at the phone that you are giving, the comic books, they finish like that, you know, so it like be lean into that. And now there are some comic books that are turning, they turn into novels.

Gabriell podcast: 49:21

Um mm-Hmm. that same child I was

Gabriell: 49:23

you about, my first child who was reading second grader, reading on a kindergarten

Gabriell podcast: 49:27

level. Mm-Hmm. He's doing great now. He started, he,

Gabriell: 49:30

one of the books he started getting into was Dragon Wings and

Gabriell podcast: 49:33

it's his comic book.

Gabriell: 49:34

Oh yeah, yeah. And they also have a novel version. And they've got some sort of cartoon, so, you know, when you can just marry all these, this media, like, I get so excited when books that I've read become novels, because now it feels like I'm You know, a part of this fandom, so you can create that also for your child in different ways, too. So, you know, give, give them that comic book, y'all. Let them read the comic book.

Gabriell podcast: 50:02

Let them read

Tami: 50:03

the comic book. Let them read the graphic novel.

Gabriell: 50:05

Yes,

Gabriell podcast: 50:06

Absolutely.

Tami: 50:07

Absolutely. I love that. I feel like I could just keep talking to

Gabriell: 50:11

I know.

Gabriell podcast: 50:12

Forever. And I love it. I love it.

Tami: 50:15

Y'all, I will drop in the show notes, just some folks to follow if you, Because it's important. You don't, you don't need to know all the texts that exist. There are some great people that put out diverse text lists, new book

Gabriell podcast: 50:30

lists,

Tami: 50:30

I will drop some of those

Gabriell podcast: 50:32

um,

Tami: 50:32

in the show notes for you to go follow these folks.

Gabriell podcast: 50:35

I promote them also on my

Tami: 50:36

Instagram page because I think it's so important

Gabriell podcast: 50:40

to

Tami: 50:40

just know what's out there and explore and

Gabriell podcast: 50:43

You

Tami: 50:43

can't know all the things. So how do you use your resources to support your ultimate outcomes for what you want to bring to your students? So exactly like Gabrielle said, you can't read all the books.

Gabriell podcast: 50:53

There's

Tami: 50:53

no shame in that use your resources use your tools, but As we get ready to kind of

Gabriell: 50:59

Mm

Gabriell podcast: 50:59

bring him

Tami: 51:00

bow on this today, I always love my guests to share a pro tip, with our, listeners. Just a tip for educators who are wanting to, or in the midst of engaging with this work.

Gabriell: 51:15

Oh, I would say, Lean into

Gabriell podcast: 51:21

learning

Gabriell: 51:21

from the classroom that

Gabriell podcast: 51:24

going to

Gabriell: 51:24

be in, I would say,

Gabriell podcast: 51:27

Don't necessarily

Gabriell: 51:28

lead with this hard outcome of, I want to go hard and be this, you know, grand activists and all of this lead with empathy. And if you can lead with that and teach into that and lean into that. Um, also giving yourself grace and not expecting. Like you said, you don't have to know all of the things, but leading with empathy and learning from the students like that is the number one thing. Okay. The second part of that is keeping in mind that you are teaching and raising students with the goal in mind of how they can be agents of change in their communities. Okay. So almost every lesson

Gabriell podcast: 52:12

lead

Gabriell: 52:13

and like, be like, okay, how can you apply this in the future? So what I would do is and I was teaching social studies, but if you teach, reading and you're getting lessons from books, math, you have to make it applicable to the real world. So I would even put my kids names in their futures. So I would say, When Rain wants to become, when Rain is a lawyer and she is working on X, Y, and Z, she'll have to remember this, or for example, if I, even something as small as vocabulary, I put my kids names in vocabulary that is affirming their futures.

Gabriell podcast: 52:51

So

Tami: 52:51

Yes.

Gabriell: 52:57

the goal. And if

Gabriell podcast: 52:58

lead

Gabriell: 52:58

with that, and that's what we talk about passion and best intentions for our students,

Gabriell podcast: 53:04

take

Gabriell: 53:04

yourself out of the center. You know,

Gabriell podcast: 53:08

yes, this is not.

Gabriell: 53:10

an audience for you. And this is something I had to tell myself, you know, because I wanted to be a teacher I never got. So I'm thinking about teaching to baby Gabrielle. Yeah. And it's like, No, get yourself out of

Gabriell podcast: 53:23

Yes.

Gabriell: 53:24

be that teacher, but look at who you're teaching and be okay to share

Gabriell podcast: 53:30

the mic.

Gabriell: 53:30

And if you have a problem doing that, change the desk around like that audience situation we got going. Hey, I used to change

Gabriell podcast: 53:39

desk up

Gabriell: 53:40

all the time, you know,

Gabriell podcast: 53:42

just because

Gabriell: 53:43

it decentralized

Gabriell podcast: 53:44

decentralized your

Gabriell: 53:45

classroom. Okay, maybe that's what the word

Gabriell podcast: 53:49

That's good. You know, and

Gabriell: 53:51

often our classrooms reflect the

Gabriell podcast: 53:54

capitalism that is oppressing us

Gabriell: 53:57

as teachers. Don't get me started, girl. I got a lot to

Gabriell podcast: 53:59

to say.

Tami: 54:01

Whoo. You know, I mean, that's a whole

Gabriell podcast: 54:02

word right there. yes,

Tami: 54:07

they are. They are

Gabriell podcast: 54:08

Decentralize. Decentralize.

Tami: 54:11

Because that brings the community piece that you've been talking about. Yep. Absolutely. It's not about you. I've said that in previous episodes. I'm like, it's not about you. It feels like it is because it's, it's quote unquote your, you know, your classroom, but it's actually all of your classroom. It's a community and you are a member of that community. Of the community. You're the leader of the community,

Gabriell podcast: 54:36

but

Tami: 54:38

the best leader empowers their team and your students are your

Gabriell: 54:42

Yeah, yeah. And they start to lead.

Tami: 54:46

Yes! Yes, they do.

Gabriell podcast: 54:48

they start to lead. They will take it

Tami: 54:51

on when you give them the space to do it.

Gabriell: 54:53

yeah. How can you see if it's working if you don't give them a chance to shine?

Gabriell podcast: 54:58

you know,

Gabriell: 54:59

I mean, really, y'all, we got to rethink our checks for understanding. Okay, we got, let's get creative with that. We got all this AI, chat GPT. Okay, it's bigger than write an essay, answer the worksheet, answer these questions. I know it's easy, but now we have something that can do that level one work. Let's get into the deeper work. Okay.

Tami: 55:26

I will

Gabriell podcast: 55:26

will push back on that a little bit.

Tami: 55:27

Is it really understanding if you can just fill in the

Gabriell podcast: 55:30

blank?

Tami: 55:34

That, that feels like a whole nother

Gabriell podcast: 55:36

episode. It is.

Gabriell: 55:37

it

Gabriell podcast: 55:38

It is. It is.

Gabriell: 55:40

it

Gabriell podcast: 55:41

Okay, so we're gonna end,

Tami: 55:42

we're gonna end on that note,

Gabriell podcast: 55:43

y'all. Remember,

Tami: 55:46

power your learners. Build the community for engagement, critical thinking, all the things. Gabrielle, it has been such a pleasure and I'm, I'm going to put a link also to Gabrielle's website in the show notes, innovative learners, check her out to support your students, your kids. if you're in CPS, she's an approved

Gabriell podcast: 56:05

provider.

Gabriell: 56:06

appreciate that girl,

Gabriell podcast: 56:08

Yes, I am. That's amazing for my Illinois,

Tami: 56:12

Friends and colleagues and share this out. So it has been such a pleasure and thank you all for listening into the dragonfly rising podcast. If you are interested in, some one on one and learning more about this, set up a free consultation with me, reach out to Gabrielle, get some tutoring for your kids. And remember y'all use your voice for good today. So thank you so much.

Gabriell: 56:37

thank you