"Why I LEFT The UK" (And Why You SHOULD To) | Olly Dobson

Welcome back to the returning Olly Dobson!

Since our last conversation, Olly has relocated to Southeast Asia and recently pivoted from mental health advice to business and financial freedom support.

We discuss how the better weather and diet options/restrictions have positively impacted his well-being, including improvements in his skin and prior health ailments.
 
We explore the contrasts between the UK and the US, particularly regarding cultural attitudes towards ambition and risk-taking. Discuss why traditional university education is losing its appeal, especially for young men, and how online learning is becoming a viable alternative. Since moving to Asia, Olly has devoted extensive time and effort to improving his Muay Thai, providing him with a palpable sense of community and belonging. 

We also navigate the emotional challenges of long-distance relationships and the balance of political ideologies in both personal and professional life. 

This episode is packed with insights on overcoming mindset obstacles, scaling a business, and developing a healthy relationship with money!

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Statistically, men are dropping out of education at an alarmingly high rate.

Speaker 2: 0:05

There's this grappling between the binaries of the nominal, binaries of life that we need in order to create some form of progression.

Speaker 1: 0:14

You have to actively remove yourself from that and surround yourself with the people who are on the same wavelength.

Speaker 2: 0:20

Ollie came on. I thought it was about a year actually, but it hasn't been a year, it was August. The same wavelength. Ollie came on. I thought it was about a year actually, but it hasn't been a year, it was August. So, but that's fine, it's good. It's been too long anyway, and there's so much to talk about. Ollie, what have you been up to? Where have you been?

Speaker 1: 0:40

Yeah, yeah, where do I start with it? Yeah, but just a heads up, by the way, to sort of go into this. I'm currently in Vietnam at the moment and it's an amazing place. But one of the things you find out here is the internet is not amazing. So if there is a bit of lag, blame it on them. But yeah, let's get into it. So when we last spoke, I was in Leeds. Yeah, let's get into it. So when we last spoke, I was in Leeds and then I left the UK at quite short notice in January. I decided in December that I'd had enough. I mean, yeah, I knew I wanted to leave the UK for the last three years regardless. But yeah, it just got to a point where I was in the winter in Leeds and said, fuck this, I don't want to do it anymore. So, yeah, I left to Thailand at very short notice, spent a week in Dubai with a mate who was out there, went to Thailand and then I've been hopping around Southeast Asia for the last six months.

Speaker 2: 1:40

What's it like in Southeast Asia? Yeah, so I mean it depends for the last six months. What's it like in?

Speaker 1: 1:46

Southeast Asia. Yeah, what do you do? So I mean, look, it depends where you go, it depends on the country that you go to and the time of year and obviously, the places that you go within those countries as well. So do you want me to answer that as like a general thing of Southeast Asia, or is there any specific? Countries you'd like me to dig?

Speaker 2: 2:11

into. How does it? Has the lifestyle change been worthwhile? Is it what you were expecting? Have you at one point thought, oh, this is a little bit overrated. Or has it actually been? Were your desires? Were they accurate, so to speak?

Speaker 1: 2:31

Yeah, they were accurate. I mean, I've been to South East Asia before, so I knew what it was like out here. The only thing that is a downside that I also anticipated actually was, as I said, the internet. It can be a real pain in certain places. Depends where you go, though. Like Thailand, has better internet than the UK. Their 5G is so accessible and it's fast as well. But then you can go to some of the more remote places in, like Indonesia, like even not even that remote, like Lombok, which is one of the main islands. Their internet is terrible and it makes work really difficult. Their Vietnam not great either, but aside from that, aside from that, it's great. It's far cheaper, the weather is so much better. The locals are far more friendly, they're altruistic, they're happy. The foreigners out here, so the, the westerners, they're much happier being out here.

Speaker 1: 3:35

Just because of that general feeling the, the weather, the good food, the, the whole culture, it's just, it's just so much better, man and like, aside from work related stress, it's had such a positive impact on my well-being, particularly. The one thing I noticed was through my skin, like I, I have a condition called rosacea which causes redness in the middle channel of the face and it can lead to, um, what they look like spots, it looks like acne. You can create these really horrible boils that are really painful, like these pussy spots virtually gone, yeah, since I've been out here, wow, and the sun is actually meant to be a trigger for it, right, and it's really sunny here and I think a huge reason for that is just because of the dietary changes and the lifestyle changes just making me more at ease. Honestly, I cannot I cannot exaggerate anymore or overemphasize how shit the uk is for a lot of young people and how much better life can be elsewhere.

Speaker 2: 4:44

Yeah, we'll definitely get onto that, but I also think, just going back to the sun, I think the sun's been given such a bad rap by sort of medical professionals Like I don't think the sun is anywhere. Obviously, skin cancer is a very real thing, but if you Google because I suffered a lot of acne growing up and if you google acne and sun, it all says no, sun is really bad for acne, it's absolute rubbish. Sun is phenomenal for acne. Do not listen to people when they say that sun I don't know if it kill it has the capacity to kill antibacterial, to kill bacteria, but it certainly your sun and sea, which I'm sure you've been, uh, in the sea to some degree as well. So you know, two best things for skin are sun and salt water. Phenomenal, yeah, uh, assets. How's the coaching business going?

Speaker 1: 5:43

yeah. So it's taken a few forms and at the moment I'm currently redefining the offer that I've got, because I kind of went into it on a whim and I, on reflection, I didn't put enough thought into the, the target audience and the, the offer that I had. But yeah, I've got a more concise offer with what I'm doing now and I'm starting to to work with the, the right kind of people like. Initially I was attracting a very random crowd and sort of people who they they just weren't really really aligned for it like they. They didn't know what they were booking on for and we weren't suitable to work together. But now that momentum is starting to pick up.

Speaker 1: 6:29

Statistically, men are dropping out of education at an alarmingly high rate and this is happening across the West. If you look at the work of Richard Reeves and the book Boys and Men, he speaks about it as the primary inequality that men face in the world at the moment. And I think, if we're going to relate it back to the uk, like the example you've used, there people are disenfranchised with the university system because it is a fucking con. It is an absolute con. You pay an enormous amount of money to develop a skill set. That isn't useful in the present day workforce unless you have a very specialised degree like engineering or medicine. The youth, gen Z and millennials, were indoctrinated by their education system and by society to believe that the route to success is go to uni, get a good job and climb the ladder. And people have done that and they've just acquired an enormous amount of debt. Now for fuck, all returns Like this is what I did.

Speaker 1: 7:37

I went to a top uni. I got the best degree you can in the humanities, and what happened? I landed a job on 25k a year in London. I ended up in more debt living there than I had before. I moved there and it was meant to be a fucking investment in my career.

Speaker 1: 7:54

And the youth of today they can see this. They can see that the ROI on university just isn't there. Traditional education isn't delivering to the needs of the market and there is so much more opportunity now for people to just go online one they could learn for free, like they can learn a high income skill for free off youtube and generate more money than they would from from their degree let alone. So that's the free. And then if you do actually invest, you speed up the process. You spend a couple grand with business coach, you learn to set up your own business and, before you know it, within like a few years, you're earning way above the average and you've got freedom. So it's like why, why on earth would people go down this traditional route? Like the education system is just, it's becoming increasing outdated and for it to sustain itself, it needs to rebrand, it needs to cut its costs or adapt to the needs of the market don't just say this one thing, just go back to the english thing.

Speaker 2: 8:48

Right, there's a culture in england which isn't I think chris williamson said this and I've sort of found this as well like doing the podcast, and maybe you have but there's a.

Speaker 2: 9:01

There's a culture of england which is everyone we're polite, but we're also subtly, uh, begrudgingly, not willing to encourage people, and we don't like people that try and put their head above the parapet. We want to cut people down and in america it's not like that at all. The america, the, going back to sort of narratives, a positive narrative is the american dream. How the american dream is might not be relevant anymore, but it's seeped into the psyche of america and it and the, the roots, are there, so they're very encouraging of each other, and in england it just that just is not the case at all. And it's been quite shocking for me actually whilst doing the podcast how what lack of support and encouragement I've received from people and and that's another thing, that's another problem with the uk that we have that culture is very much embedded in us and it's a real shame yeah, it's, it really is.

Speaker 1: 10:03

I'd reiterate that and I can't stress how many times I've had this conversation with people. You know I I in my previous job I worked with americans all the time and I work with americans now. I I'm engaged with a lot of americans on social media. I meet a lot of americans out here and it is exactly that. As you've said, they have this inbuilt ambition, optimism, willingness to take risk. That is so much easier to work with and it's so much more motivating.

Speaker 1: 10:42

Now, don't get me wrong. As you've said, the american dream sure, not everyone can make it, not everyone is going to make it, but I genuinely believe that if more british people adopted the american optimism and self-belief, we would have far more people running their own businesses, far more millionaires like, just more people doing the things they want to do. It's almost like a contagious optimism, the, the reverse of it, and again, I, I find it so much better to be around, but in the uk and australia is really bad for this as well. The aussies are even worse. The, the tall poppy syndrome. Like if any anybody who aspires to be better, you chop them down. Like, why, why are you trying to get ahead of yourself like oh, I see a rich person over there. Oh, they must have scammed their way to it. Oh, they don't fucking deserve it. Oh, look at that twat. Like who does he think he is? It's just a sheep mentality that keeps people trapped in their misery and it. I don't fully understand why we have it that way, but it is a means of societal and ideological control that stops us aspiring for better and stops people doing what they want to do.

Speaker 1: 12:01

And you have to actively remove yourself from that and surround yourself with the people who are on the same wavelength. Because don't get me wrong, in the UK there are those people, there are a minority of very ambitious people. It's just you really have to connect with them and that's why doing things like this, moving to places like Bali, dubai I know Dubai gets loads of shit, being materialistic, but I would much rather live in dubai than the uk because, again, it's full of those people and when you surround yourself with those people, you are the sum of your environment and it rubs off on you. It's so much more motivating. You will feel better in yourself. So, like I, I would always say to people like if you can set up a business that targets the, the american audience. Do it because you will find it a hell of a lot easier and a hell of a lot more rewarding.

Speaker 2: 12:51

Just get used to them not understanding your humor and sarcasm yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, and and probably laughing at things that just aren't funny.

Speaker 2: 13:01

Um, they're just yeah, yeah there's some american cracking up and you just think like what's going on? Yeah, but it is it's. I think the reason is is because I wrote a blog post the other the other day that I just put out yesterday about why do people not let go of things when they know they should. And the reason, well, sort of to use a bible analogy which I use in the blog when moses led the jews away from the slavery of the egyptians, he didn't lead them into the promised land immediately, he led them into the desert.

Speaker 2: 13:38

And some people some of well, I think it was, it was written that some of them actually said can we go back to the Egyptians?

Speaker 2: 13:46

Because what we're suffering from now is actually worse than what we were, the, what we were suffering previously, which is why people don't let go of the tyrannical views or the tyrannical relationships, et cetera, et cetera, and I think there's some kind of as a nation or as individuals because that's all that really matters for us to let go of that slight maybe resentment's a bit strong, but the idea that anyone doing positively reflects badly on you.

Speaker 2: 14:24

In order to let go of that, it's a very, very painful process and you have to be willing and in and enthused enough because enthusiasm is the right word to basically say okay. The idea is that, because this is where capitalism is great, this is the good side of capitalism is that person a benefits, but then so does person a, so does person b, all the way down to z. Maybe they don't. Maybe they don't benefit as much as person a, because, after all, person a is the person that created or developed. But the idea is that we, you, create a product or a service that brings other people up and therefore their lives improve as much as but not almost, or at least they improve slightly than they were before person a did whatever they did. If you get what I mean, that's the whole point. That's, that's good capitalism and good commerce and entrepreneurship.

Speaker 1: 15:26

Yeah, and I'd, yeah, I'd agree of it yeah, no, I'd, I'd agree, and I was thinking about it this morning, actually like in terms of, in terms of what we're moving into now with the, the digital and creator economy, because it it is capitalistic, it is a form of capitalism, but it isn't one that relies on exploitation in the way that marxist inclined people would refer to traditional. Exactly exactly you. Now. You now have the opportunity to just be yourself and help others to deliver a service, and yet it is in the pursuit of capital, of of money, but well, it's sort of combination. It can be that, but also in the pursuit of genuinely just your, your interest, and that that is a positive system, because it isn't fucking people over, which capitalism really can do like traditional capitalism in industrial age was shit and there still is plenty of bad capitalism out there where people are exploited and bad people make loads of money. But now we're moving into this system where there is a real opportunity to deliver value and help others and make a living from that, like the example I was thinking of earlier. I don't know if he's making money from it, but based on the size of his channel now, I would assume he is.

Speaker 1: 16:52

There's this guy I've followed on YouTube for a while. I've forgotten his name I think it's Simon and he is just. He's an academic who is really interested in learning in language, particularly like old english, and he does these, these videos. That will be like what a conversation in saxon england would have sounded like. Like he's I think he's doing his phd in in archaeology or something along those lines and to to a lot of people they probably just see him as like a bit of a nurse, like he's an intellectual and an academic, but all he's doing is sharing his learnings, his wisdom, on a social media platform and, based on his account size, from where he's at at the moment, he could monetize that like.

Speaker 1: 17:41

And how. How is that exploitative like it's? It's a really fucking good opportunity and I think people just need to to see this. They need to realize now we are, as as people like dan co say, we are in like the new renaissance. This is a new gold rush and there is an opportunity for so many people to just have a better life and more fulfillment and freedom by doing what they actually want to do. And if people can get over that initial cynicism and the mental blocks that they have, they can thrive in it yeah, the youtube and social media is a perfect example.

Speaker 2: 18:21

Obviously there is, you know, there's an algorithm and there's moderator, there's moderation and stuff like that, and that can sometimes get in the way of complete and utter free free agency and free free pursuit, but and you can debate, and you, yeah, and you can debate whether or not, at which point that becomes, uh, oppressive and authoritarian for the sake of it true you're completely right, like youtube and some for and all the forms of social media and stuff.

Speaker 2: 18:49

There they they've created a decentralized platform where people can, uh, be creative, be expressive, be academic and spread knowledge, wisdom, joy all through those, through doing that, and they can become self-employed and they become their free agents, so to speak, and that is a great benefit of technology and an example of how the sort of the ethos behind capitalism and a free market which you're completely right is it can be incredibly damaging, and I often wonder if, well, not wonder, but it's obvious that we're the sort of creatures that, unfortunately, our greatest desires are very easily exploited, such as food and sex and things like that. They can be very much tapped and utilized for things that are not good for us, but other, maybe in the rung slightly below that. There are a lot of pursuits that are incredibly admirable and incredibly helpful to enriching our lives, and that's what this renaissance, as you said, will hopefully contribute to.

Speaker 1: 20:12

I hope so and I think another point to add to this, to sort of tie it in with what we were saying about the British mindset as well. So the British mindset and then the opportunity you have here. One thing I've learned right when you start shifting your mindset towards more of an entrepreneurial, ambitious and optimistic outlook, it really changes your mood for the better. Yeah, like it's very liberating. One of the the biggest contributors to my mental health improving and and not feeling so depressed and caught up in a victim mindset that I really did have through years of depression like this, just self-defeating, lack of belief and and lack of hope.

Speaker 1: 21:03

And don't get me wrong, depression is a complicated condition that deeply ingrains itself. But a lot of British people they share those sort of depressive tendencies of believing that everything is fucked and that they're powerless to do anything about it. Particularly Gen Z, a lot of Gen Z really have this idea that we've inherited a shit sack which we have. The system is breaking people. But when you shift that mindset towards more of the ambitious, self-ownership, internal locus of control, that shift, it really does liberate you. And even if you aren't rich or you don't have your business fully up and running yet just putting yourself into that mindset that you are going to and that you're on track towards that happening, it really makes you feel so much better, and if you have more people in that mindset, you create happier communities as well completely.

Speaker 2: 21:59

Yeah, I think that that is the key. We're we're all. We're both a drop in. We're all a drop in the. We are all both a drop in the ocean and the ocean itself. So the, the collective unconscious, the conscious, is very much dependent upon everyone else, and we all impact each other in more ways that we can fully comprehend, I believe, which is why all the, the atrocities and things going on in the world, it's, it's just such a shame, to say the least, really, because it is not only is it awful for them, evidently, but it's also awful for the whole world, which is why, yeah, things like the news let's talk about fighting, and all the pow, pow, pow you've been doing recently, and and how did you get into that and what has that taught you?

Speaker 1: 23:01

and, yes, let's just just give a little speech on that yeah, so I mean, when we spoke last time I was, I was training as well. I've been doing muay thai for for for two years now. So yeah, muay thai if any of your listeners aren't familiar with it is thai kickboxing. It's a form of kickboxing that incorporates knees, elbows and something called a clinch, which is like a form of wrestling that you do, but where you elbow people in the face and you try to break their ribs with your knees, and so it's pretty. It's pretty horrible. But, um, yeah, yeah, I've been training quite intensely. Uh, I upped my intensity when, when I was in leeds, I was doing it three to four times a week.

Speaker 1: 23:49

And then I came out to thailand, where muay thai is an enormous part of thai culture. Like they, they have an entire ministry of their government dedicated to it. Like they're very, very proud of of muay thai. It's very deeply ingrained in in the culture. So, yeah, came out here to train again. I did train Muay Thai in Thailand four years ago as well. But, yeah, it's again in relation to sort of self-improvement and mindset and your general well-being. Like, for me, it's been so positive doing it, particularly around self-esteem, just getting your heart rate up, having something to identify with the community that you get from it, and I've actually not been doing it so much in vietnam lately, which is a bit annoying because the class times here aren't as convenient. But I'm gonna go back to thailand in a few weeks. Party for that yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2: 24:46

Um, so is it like brazilian jiu-jitsu? That's the only sort of thing I have to reference it to no no no, so so bjj is is grappling.

Speaker 1: 24:59

Brazilian jiu-jitsu is on the ground. It's where you, you manipulate, you, you put people, you manipulate their joints to get them to tap out, or you literally like, submit them by. You might choke them out. Yeah well, yeah yeah, that could happen.

Speaker 2: 25:15

I mean, Muay Thai as well. Muay Thai originally.

Speaker 1: 25:19

It originates from a hand-to-hand combat that the Siamese used. It was designed to kill people originally and you could Like kneeing and elbowing people in the head. Is is very fucking dangerous, but their, their sport so muay thai is a striking sport like punching, kicking knees, elbows and clinching, and then people often incorporate bjj and muay thai so that they've got striking and grappling. And that's when you're looking at mma mixed martial arts, which is a combination of fighting on your feet and fighting on the ground okay, I get you now.

Speaker 2: 25:57

Yeah, have you ever? Have you ever done krav maga?

Speaker 1: 26:01

I've done tiny bits of krav maga, like, yeah, krav maga is it's not a martial art, it's uh's the IDF's hand-to-hand combat system. It was developed for the IDF to deal with hand-to-hand situations, so the only rules in Krav Maga are kill or be killed. Pretty much it's like you either kill the other person or cripple them or it happens to you. It's just all about survival. So it incorporates nearly all martial arts and then also things like dealing with knives, disarming guns, etc. Etc. Like Krav Maga in terms of if you want to know self-defense like you're not looking to do sport if you just want to know how to defend yourself, krav Maga is the best thing to do, because they're going to teach you the most horrible techniques, like eye gouging, tearing people's throats out, pulling their armpit hair, like bursting their testicles, like it's just really fucking nasty stuff. But if you're in a life or death situation, you might need to know what about?

Speaker 2: 27:11

um, like dating and that, what? How is that the how has that been different? Is that any different in? In thailand? Is that? Oh, in southeast asia?

Speaker 1: 27:26

um, oh, we, I could speak about this for a while. So, look, when you, when you come to southeast asia, there is, uh, a particular demographic of people that come out here. Um, yeah, generally old, old white men and or middle-aged white men and some young, yeah, so I'll explain a bit. There's a long history of them coming out here for the local women.

Speaker 2: 27:55

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 27:56

Passport bros, then you've obviously got the normal dating for the average people. So you've still got all the dating apps. There's all the Westerners that are out here as well, just dating normally, right, yeah, and yeah, I, yeah, I think again, it depends where you go, when. When people are backpacking and they're traveling, you know, things can get quite frisky. Uh, there's a lot, of, a lot of casual hookups, short-term relationships, because people know that they're then potentially not going to see the person again. So, yeah, there's, there's that it can be, it can be easier, I guess, like it can be easier to to meet people, and people are happier as well out here. They're not worrying about their jobs and everything, so they're just like, yeah, fuck it, we'll go for it. But exactly, yeah, um, I I don't know if you saw my, my social post, but I I've had a bit of a significant change in my own life with this stuff since coming out here.

Speaker 2: 28:55

No, I don't. I looked at a couple. I looked at your en suite shit video, but I haven't seen. Yeah, delve and part two as well. Delve into that then.

Speaker 1: 29:12

Yeah, yeah, delve, and part two as well, delve into that then. Yeah, so I mean, look I, I came out here with the intention of starting my new life as, like, a single free man like freedom, blah, blah, financial freedom, location freedom, relationship freedom, whatever it is. And I, for the first few months that's how it was um, I also wrecked in a hostel for a little little while and, yeah, there there's uh associations that come with being a rep in a hostel, that that are true. So, yeah, I took advantage of single life I guess it's the the way to put it. Yeah, but then, yeah, I actually I met a and fell in love. Oh, wow, you met a girl and fell in love.

Speaker 2: 29:51

That's so cool. Yeah, yeah, where did you?

Speaker 1: 29:54

meet. Yeah, we met in Thailand and then we spent some time in Bali together Lombok and Bali after that. But yeah, she's from the netherlands and has gone back to the netherlands now.

Speaker 1: 30:15

So I'm I'm in a really weird situation, man, where, like, I've come out here, I'm growing my business, I'm I'm going monk mode on that, but like, at the same time, honestly feeling, I guess, kind of heartbroken and heart sunken, and when I'm not distracting myself with work and just focusing on this, she is the main thing on my mind. Yeah, it's a weird situation to navigate because we're separated by distance and, yeah, the logistics of her being in a country that I can only go to for three months of the year.

Speaker 2: 31:02

Yes, wait, can't you do a thing where you go for three months and then come back for a few days and then go back again?

Speaker 1: 31:09

Yeah, um, I don't, I I need to look into how it works, but, yeah, I I can't remember. If that's a loophole, I think it's. You can only be in the country for 180 days in a given period of time, like because, okay, I was, I was chatting to an american girl who had a german boyfriend and she was saying that she, she lived in germany, think, for three or four months of the year but then had to be out of the country for X amount of time. And I have a feeling the UK is on that same platform as the Americans are with it now. So, yeah, I don't know. But also I don't know if I really want to be in the Netherlands that much of the year, because the Netherlands is pretty much the same weather as the UK. It's pretty much just as expensive. I'm already feeling Northern Europe, to be honest, western and Northern.

Speaker 2: 32:07

Europe. Amsterdam, though, is pretty cool. She's from Amsterdam, it is a cool city Expensive.

Speaker 1: 32:19

That's the downside. Like like my, my situation I'm in at the moment with my business I I I get by out here because your cost of living is a lot lower, but for me to get by in amsterdam, I really need things to take off and yes, I'm confident that they will eventually, but right now, when it's like the rawness of being separated from uh, it's like, oh shit, what do I do?

Speaker 2: 32:42

holy man, I didn't know that's, that's how, that's. That's. That's great news and also sad news at the same time, which maybe that's kind of what life like, yeah, exactly is life?

Speaker 2: 32:53

that's when life is done best, I think, in a weird way, when there's great news and yeah, in the sense of like an elevator music. Elevator music isn't exciting, but a great piece of music has highs and lows, but still you've got to take the. It's a cliche, but there's no highs without lows, but anyway that that's really good. I'm glad. I'm glad for you, man, and hopefully she'll come back and you can go and see her or you can meet and she'll come to england there was research that shows like people are biologically.

Speaker 1: 33:24

Some people are more in, they're more prone to being conservative or liberal, right and upbringing environment, the combination of all of them. They shape people into being either conservative or liberal, and that is normal. That's fine. You need both of them, but they are as important. A way that I would describe it is similar to in business. You have an entrepreneur, you have the CEO, they have the ideas, they're the progressive right, the thinker, and then you have your chief risk officer, who is the accountant, who reigns them in and is able to see like where this innovation and ambition to change things could go wrong. They predict the scenarios ahead, and both of those people are equally as important, and that is the same in politics.

Speaker 1: 34:19

There are institutions and parts of our culture that we should protect and we should hold on to, and there are things that we shouldn't and we need to change. I think the best way particularly to understand conservatism or the way that it, a way that really changed it for me, was when sir roger scruton described conservatism as a love for that, that that is good in society and it just makes perfect sense like some people are going to really appreciate things that we have in society. And who, who am I, as a more liberal and progressive sort of ambitious thinker, to say actually, like no, you're just a, like a bigoted old person or a bigger who doesn't want to let go of something that needs changing, like we. We need both of them, right, yeah, I, yeah, so I. I agree with everything that you've just said in terms of your analogy.

Speaker 2: 35:20

I think you've just articulated it into a more concise model. Not that concise, but yeah, it's in the early, nascent stages, but yeah, it's kind of like there's the grappling. I mentioned this on another podcast. I mentioned this on another podcast. I found out the other day that Eve, in terms of Adam and Eve, means necessary or necessary adversary. So the whole point was that Adam and Eve, there's this grappling between the binaries, the nominal binaries of life that we need in order to create some form of progression. That's where all the, that's where it's the, the dichotomy of the two things pushing against each other, where something new comes out of, in the same sense that we're a result of our parents. They're taking the two things, they create something new that goes on to, um, in theory, rectify the new society and bring uh, I don't know increased quality of life to use, for lack of a better term, but that's what's sort of going on. There is, the grappling is so necessary for progression, but we don't understand that a lot of the time.

Speaker 1: 36:46

Yeah, absolutely In its simplest explanation you need to be exposed to different ideas and have your ideas scrutinized.

Speaker 1: 36:59

Like if you're just looking at things through one channel, you aren't gaining access to the plethora of approaches and experiences that come with humanity.

Speaker 1: 37:11

Like it is that like why you have two houses in or two sides in in parliament like, so push, pull like, or in a debate, what's the, what's the aim, to come to a consensus or a level of understanding, and how, how do you get to that? By the exchange of ideas and pointing out where things might be different, like you literally did it to me earlier when I I spoke about how amazing the, the digital economy is, and then you pointed out the, the, also the counter argument that well, it could still be exploitative because youtube are in control of what's going out there. And is that really freedom? Like I haven't thought about that yet, but you pointed out and now my wisdom has improved from that it's like it's so important that we have that. And yeah, I think in the present day, particularly with young people in the polarisation of politics, that recognition and appreciation of how important that is just isn't there and that's got to change.

Speaker 2: 38:15

Yeah, it's got to change. Carl Jung said that open open. He said that honest dialogue was curative. Uh, open, honest dialogue was was curative, and I think that that's completely true. But it stems back to the thing that I started talking about near the beginning of the story from the Bible, with Moses not letting go Moses, with the Jews not wanting to leave the tyranny because they were all realizing that they were now in the desert. It is that letting go process is so difficult. We cling on to our ideologies because they actually sustain. They sustain us in ways that we we have.

Speaker 1: 38:58

We have no idea and that and that can be, really corrosive when it's when it's getting bad people very much over identify with their political beliefs.

Speaker 1: 39:08

It becomes a deeply ingrained part of their, their ego and their identity, to the extent that when you challenge the political system like, let's say, they identify as a socialist, you criticise socialism it becomes an attack on them and I think that's more a reflection of immaturity.

Speaker 1: 39:27

But it is still something that a lot of people have as they get older as well.

Speaker 1: 39:31

Like I've met so many politically stupid adults in my life, like as as elitist as it it may sound like, just of all ages, the amount of people who I I just think you are a fucking idiot in in in terms of this. Like you, you simply cannot see like how, how deeply ingrained you are in your system and that not everyone is going to agree with you and that that is okay. They just don't, they don't let it go, and I think it ultimately becomes a, it becomes an ego problem that, in my belief, would probably be better addressed if people learned more things like meditative practices and had education around ego and the philosophy around that. If they learn from systems like daoism with yin yang behind you, like buddhism, the eastern philosophies that really get you to sort of understand your processes and the flow of life. I think that would do a lot to to help us have a more conducive and cooperative society where we can discuss things in a way that is beneficial to everyone.

Speaker 2: 40:41

Oli, we're going to end here. Before we end, what are you hoping to do in the next six months other than go to Netherlands? Literally, yeah, you've got to go to Netherlands. Man, You've got to tell me when you're there and what are you looking forward to. There's a question I'd never asked before what are you looking forward to? That's a good question.

Speaker 1: 41:09

It is a good question it gets me thinking In the summer I'd enjoy being there, but yeah, maybe not so much in the summer I'd enjoy being there, but, yeah, maybe, maybe not so much in the winter. Um, so the plan at the moment, the plan at the moment is just scaling my business. I really refining who I'm helping the, the whole process of learning and growing with that. Like big business is kind of an extension of yourself and it's very exciting growing that out and having ownership and um aligning your purpose to your, your means of of income. So that that's something that I'm excited about.

Speaker 1: 41:51

Growing it's sort of it's it's kind of uh, of nerve wracking in a way as well, but like growing with that and overcoming those mindset obstacles is part of the process. So, yeah, I'm looking at, I'm looking forward to growing that out and I think for me, at the stage of my life I'm at currently, I'm really looking at things a lot more in terms of financials and like understanding my financial goals, understanding my mental relationship to the philosophy of money, etc. And, yeah, just getting into a position where I feel very financially comfortable, I guess, and and free to to just be moving around and then sharing what I've learned with other people.