Hip-Hop's Generational Shift and Cultural Preservation

Can the commercialization of hip-hop ever stay true to its roots? Join Ron Brown, Mikey Fever, and special guest Clip as we reunite after a brief pause to discuss this and more. We kick off the session with Ron's practical fitness tip on managing muscle loss during weight reduction and the importance of adjusting workout intensity. Our conversation then critiques this year’s Summer Jam, suggesting a split into two days to better engage both older and younger hip-hop fans, while also noting the noticeable weight changes in female rappers like Lola Brooke.

As we navigate through the evolution of hip-hop culture, we reminisce about the golden days of local DJs in Detroit and Harlem, and how technology has reshaped the industry, leading to an oversaturation of artists mimicking trending styles. We dissect the impact of media personalities like Rosenberg and discuss the importance of maintaining the essence of the communities that birthed hip-hop. Our debate touches on the tension between commercial interests and authentic cultural expression, and how figures like Ali Mo have managed to stay true to the culture despite these pressures.

Moving forward, we examine the future of hip-hop culture, emphasizing the generational preservation and regional evolution of the genre. From New York's dominance in the 90s to the rise of southern rap, we celebrate the entrepreneurial spirit that has shaped hip-hop across the United States. We also explore the lineage of drill music and the pivotal moments and artists that have contributed to breaking down regional barriers in hip-hop. Listen in as we reflect on the importance of local support and collaboration, and how the unique advantages of different regions have ensured the persistence and evolution of hip-hop with future generations.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

What's going on, everybody? It's Ron Brown, lmt, the People's Fitness Professional, alongside my co-host, mikey Fever, and this is a New York's Perspective. Tuesday night it's scheduled Peace people Tuesday, wednesday, thursday. If you're not in the chat right now, I understand we've been off. Man, I know y'all like forgot about us. Yeah, they probably did. They probably forgot about us, but it's all good, excuse me y'all, I got to eat a little bit.

Speaker 3: 0:29

Running around. Yo, good to see you, mike. Likewise what you eating Chinese food.

Speaker 1: 0:35

Nah, this is pretzels man.

Speaker 3: 0:39

I'm messing with you, man.

Speaker 1: 0:41

What up Cliff? What's going on Cliff? What's going on Chillin'?

Speaker 3: 0:44

chillin' chillin'. I seen Clip work in the lab. Something like that, Something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I seen Clip in the studio man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Yo Clip, were you one of the kids back in the days who used to order from the Nordica from those catalogs? Yeah, Got him.

Speaker 3: 1:08

Nordi Kings, baby Nordi Kings.

Speaker 4: 1:10

I'm wearing Nordica until the day I go. I don't care, me too.

Speaker 3: 1:14

That's Nordica.

Speaker 4: 1:15

I'm from everywhere. We used to wear gray Nordi sweats and 95 Air Max.

Speaker 1: 1:20

Yeah, yo, how you doing, though I'm good. I'm tired, but I'm good though Yo thanks for showing up man, Even tired man. That's peace right there, that's appreciated, Cliff.

Speaker 3: 1:31

What's up? What's up.

Speaker 1: 1:33

Yo man, a lot's going on right now. Hold on, yo a lot's going on right now. First off, I want to say this Shouts out to the listeners on the podcast man, the listeners man. I got to address the listeners. We get fan mail and all of that and I'm going to just let everyone know who are listening on Spotify. I don't know how to answer the fan mail yet.

Speaker 3: 1:58

We appreciate you.

Speaker 1: 1:59

Once I figure that out, we're going to start answering the fan mail. But yo, man, just to let y'all know we are on. Thank you, tyena. My daughter hooked me up with some painkillers and water. Anyway, you all. Right, my shoulder man. I'm losing weight, so here's a fitness tip for everybody I'm losing weight. When you lose weight, your body becomes, your muscles become basically catabolic, where they start breaking down, right, um and uh, you start losing muscle. You start losing muscle and then, when you start losing muscle, you can't work out as intensely as you would. Um, if you're trying to gain more muscle, Right, so you got to, kind of like, take it a little easier and realize that you did drop weight, and you know you got to. You lost weight yourself, so you have to stop lifting as heavy.

Speaker 4: 2:55

Got you, we got to let the muscles rebuild themselves.

Speaker 1: 2:57

Gotcha, exactly. So what happened to me is I kept lifting like I'm 250 pounds and, boom, my shoulder is a little twisted, but I'm alright, I'll be alright. I've been nursing it, so that's cool fellas, you'll get well for real, ron.

Speaker 3: 3:15

Thanks man something's happening to me, like every other week it's like that man be out there moving around a lot man. Can we talk about how garbage sandwich jam was? I hear a lot of people saying the same thing.

Speaker 4: 3:27

It was trash. Heard the stories. It was trash. Who was on it?

Speaker 2: 3:31

Microwave music.

Speaker 3: 3:33

Hold on.

Speaker 4: 3:38

I could think of Rakim was there. Rakim was there. That's the man.

Speaker 1: 3:44

Daddy King, big Daddy King was there. Sexy Red was there. That's the man, daddy King, big Daddy King was there, sexy Red was there.

Speaker 3: 3:48

Yeah, I'm good.

Speaker 5: 3:50

Kiss was there, sexy Red.

Speaker 4: 3:53

Everybody else was Nuwaks, I'm good.

Speaker 1: 3:56

They had the Afro piece going though. Yeah, they had a little bit of.

Speaker 5: 4:00

Afro, but David O, I haven't pronounced his name.

Speaker 1: 4:04

I forgot Summer Jam needs to be two days. Summer Jam needs to be two days. You said, yeah, it's trash man.

Speaker 4: 4:11

It needs to be an event for the older generation of hip-hop and an event for the younger generation of hip-hop. That way you can cover all bases, get more money and everybody's satisfied.

Speaker 1: 4:23

I think I saw Brooke from Brooklyn.

Speaker 5: 4:26

Yeah, Lola Brooke was there.

Speaker 1: 4:27

Yeah, Lola Brooke, yeah.

Speaker 5: 4:29

Is it me or do the female rappers look like they're losing really a lot of weight? Because Lola Brooke was a little thicker and even though she's short, she look like a little kid. Now she look like a damn elementary school student.

Speaker 3: 4:46

Eating too much chopped cheese man.

Speaker 2: 4:48

No no.

Speaker 3: 4:52

That's what it is.

Speaker 5: 4:54

To your point, Cliff, I think what we have is.

Speaker 1: 5:01

Trevor, you're breaking up a little bit, Hit me. You keep breaking up In and out.

Speaker 5: 5:07

Hold on, give me one second. One second you good now.

Speaker 4: 5:20

Yeah, we're good.

Speaker 5: 5:22

All right, so there's cameras to be coming on, but what I was saying? You put the button to be coming on. But what I was saying, you put the button to feedback.

Speaker 3: 5:28

When you put the button to feedback. We can't run you. You're cutting out. You're still cutting out, yeah.

Speaker 5: 5:37

I'm going to leave and come back, hold on.

Speaker 1: 5:39

Alright, yo, I want to talk about this right. So the Summer Jam Cl clip said there should be two shows. I think that's a good suggestion, right there, that's a good idea.

Speaker 3: 5:53

I think it makes sense.

Speaker 4: 5:55

Because if this is our biggest concert for New York City, right, every year this is considered our biggest concert. So why not cover all bases of hip hop? Since we are the mecca of this culture, why not give the older heads a hip-hop? Give the older heads something that we can go see and give the younger heads something that they can go see. And if the younger heads want to go to the older head events, cool. Give them a little education on where this culture comes from. The head of it. Cool. Give them a little education on where this culture comes from. But trying to bunch all of that into one event, into like one day, it's not gonna work because a lot of them young kids. You gotta understand kids. Some of these kids is 20, 19, 17, 18. Some of some of our legends hits was 30 years ago. They have no clue what those records are.

Speaker 3: 6:44

I hear what you're saying. With that, I think hip-hop's the only genre that has that ageism gap, because rock concerts still be going and they be honoring the legend, 17-year-olds going to no kids' concerts.

Speaker 5: 7:01

I think you're wrong with it there, because you're right. The rock groups, the Ozzy Osbourne's and all that a lot of those parents and grandparents really taught their kids about that era of their music. We don't have a hip-hop hall of fame. Hip-hop is in the rock and roll hall of fame. You got to look at that. We don't have a hip-hop. There's nothing. Nothing we own, nothing. You see in black coaches owned by black people I have put that on the thread the other day that all we see is black face, but the organization, the company, is white. It's blackface but A practice.

Speaker 3: 8:01

He's breaking up again.

Speaker 1: 8:02

Hey, trev, you keep breaking up. I think it's the sound in the background, all right.

Speaker 5: 8:06

hold on, Let me move over real quick.

Speaker 1: 8:09

When the sound in the background comes in, then you come off.

Speaker 5: 8:13

You get me better.

Speaker 1: 8:15

Yeah.

Speaker 5: 8:16

All right, that was the AC, my fault, y'all. But what I'm saying is nobody really listens to radio, no more. You know what I'm saying. Like you, don't go to work and cut on the radio. Sometimes I feel like our show is. What I think Power 105 has is that it's in the wintertime. I don't know, I forgot the title that they call it, but Power House yeah.

Speaker 5: 8:43

I feel like that's more adult. You know where they mixed and blend the gaps because, like, like method man said, there's no reason for y'all not to be jumping out your seat to m-e-t-h-o-d man or anything reddit meth did, because they to me, at a certain point of hip-hop was the happy music, the get high music. So now the get high is different, even with the kids, and it's literally kids even though they're adults, but they're still kids. It's the same way. Listen to the music. Everybody got an op, everybody mumbling. Don't understand. You got Big Daddy Kane up there. You know he's a forefather, you know you got.

Speaker 5: 9:32

I think they looking at Kiss now as being as like, old head because you post him, because he still looks young. He's young, relatable, but all his music they don't know about. Neither Half of them was just being born when he really hit his peak career as a soloist. So when you put him there it's only because he did that diplomatic verses. And now everybody knows Kiss for that. But you don't know Kiss for the mixtape for Clue. They don't even know Kiss for the ball D I want. That's how real it is. You know what I'm saying. So we looking at Hot 97, like they, not even to me. They ain't relevant. You have no black people on here to represent who we are. As culture goes, we overuse the word culture. You know everything. Culture, culture, culture. It's no culture. We done, sold it, it's gone. It's no more culture. We sold the culture. There's no jams in the park, there's no mixtapes, there's no DJs. The culture has been sold, bought, resold, re-bought, and now they stream it for like $0.001 on the dollar. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 4: 10:48

Now that you say that, I just thought about that. Now that you say that on Hot 97 specifically, who's from New York outside of Flex? That's on their station.

Speaker 2: 11:00

I have no idea who's on Hot 97 outside. Of.

Speaker 1: 11:03

Flex. I have no idea who's on.

Speaker 2: 11:03

Hot 97 outside of me Yo me either.

Speaker 3: 11:05

I have no idea who's on Hot 97.

Speaker 4: 11:07

Enough is on Hot 97.

Speaker 3: 11:13

Now you mean Envy on 105, but enough 105.

Speaker 4: 11:17

I think he's enough still on Hot 97. I don't even know if he's still on the radio.

Speaker 3: 11:21

I don't even. They got quite a few in New York when they do those mixed hours. I don't even know if he's still on the radio. They got quite a few in New York when they do those mixed hours. I just believe that with the advancement of technology in every aspect, it affected everything. It affected the music business, the creativity. Everybody's just looking for the hot number one songs. They're not putting too much creativity in their music, they just want an instant hit singles.

Speaker 4: 11:41

It is, but even with my problem with radio. I hate radio these days because of the programming of radio like we don't play. They don't play legendary hip hop music anymore, they just put what current and it's like yo dog, uh, all of this stuff came from somewhere the power streaming.

Speaker 3: 11:59

That's what it is. They're looking for the numbers, because you know I mean, the best summer gym I had was 2005, but the radio numbers came from our generation.

Speaker 4: 12:08

It didn't come from the new generation.

Speaker 1: 12:09

It came from us right, like like what trev was saying is earlier when he was talking about in hot 97 who's really like running the whole situation like who's there From New York?

Speaker 3: 12:26

But I blame them DJs too, because of New York she was a 105.1.

Speaker 4: 12:30

So she ain't on Hot 97, no more.

Speaker 5: 12:32

Right. But we had her for Hot 97 from 3 to 7. And that was a go-to. I was a star. I'm still a star fan, but you know what I'm saying. When he was on there, I fell in love with radio, with Dr Dre.

Speaker 4: 12:49

Me too yeah.

Speaker 5: 12:52

That's what made me want to get into it. Then, when Star came on years later and I can do that too.

Speaker 4: 13:00

Yeah, because he broke from the Bay Area. Right, he's from Oakland. Rosenberg, he's from Oakland. Yeah, rosenberg, he's from Maryland, maryland, dc area. Laura Stiles is from California. Wow, who else is here? That's from the Mecca, that knows the real energy and vibe of New York City before they don't know that. Ebro's been here. He's lived here for a long time, but you still don't know New York culture. You still not a New Yorker, bro. Right.

Speaker 2: 13:33

Pardon me, I spent about a month in Detroit and listening to the radio stations in Detroit. You don't think anybody else made music outside of Detroit and all they played was new artists after new artists, people you never heard before, people that you heard before, that was really, you know, making their moves in Detroit and it's like we used to have that same kind of vibe in the city where it was even like. It was even like run to a DJ to try to get a record broke and because of the love of the city, where it was even like, it was even like run to a dj to try to get a record broke and because of the love of the city it might get. I was listening to ron g.

Speaker 2: 14:11

Ron g had a nice little, nice little, a nice little interview with um, with dj drama and um it was him and doo-wop, a matter of fact, and he was talking about those days where you had to run somewhere, go get a record broke or you know he'd get a record and he'd break it, he'd spin it and it was for the love. It was so much for the love of the city he broke it down to the love, just for his side of Harlem, because he got a little mad when Jewels gave a track to K Slate, being from the east side. So that little, that love for me because it's from here, that ownership, that personal ownership, yeah, that's none of the void now.

Speaker 3: 14:57

It goes back to the technology. There's more rappers than fans now. Everybody's rapping. Back then you had to search for that gym. Everybody has bars. Now A dude like K-Slave may he rest in peace. Was that dude that you knew you'd get a record from him? Something from the streets?

Speaker 2: 15:15

that you don't hear on popular radio.

Speaker 3: 15:17

You get what I'm saying, it's easily accessible for everybody to come out with music. Whatever sounds hot, that's what's trending. People want to follow that style. Go, do your reading, that'll be right here. There's no more creativity.

Speaker 2: 15:32

It's definitely no creativity, but the art is more fair than the actual art form, because everybody shows money, whatever little bit of money they make.

Speaker 5: 15:42

Everybody shows money. Everybody's a fan shows money. Like whatever little bit of money they make, everybody shows money. Everybody's a fan of money. And that's why everything sounds the same. The chicks sound the same, they dress the same, they look the same, they weigh the same. Only thing different is they're either black or Puerto Rican. Everybody got a week down today you know what I'm saying. Everybody got on a baby suit. Everybody got on a furry boots. Every day Selling pussy at this point, what we doing here, yeah, how y'all be. Ain't even been outside long enough.

Speaker 1: 16:22

Yeah, hey, trev man, yo, what you have to say right now is is so important because you're like, like on point right now, but I can't hear you, like you're in and out all right hold on yeah, yeah, you know. Uh, so who are the program directors in these stations?

Speaker 4: 16:40

that's my question well, he was the program director for high 97. I I know that.

Speaker 5: 16:44

Yeah, he's a program director and he's like he's basically a fill-in for everybody because nobody else is on High 97. So he's the director. Slash slash, answer the phone. Slash summer jam coordinator slash. You know, promoter Rosenberg talks about everybody Enough. He follows what Rosenberg does.

Speaker 4: 17:13

I'm tired of no disrespect to Rosenberg. You know what I mean. He a hip-hop fan, but I'm tired of him acting like he, a purist, like dog. You ain't even from here to be talking the stuff that you be talking. I get it, you, you, you. You a guest in our culture. You don't get to dictate nothing that go on in our culture. You really shouldn't have no opinion that go on anything in our culture in the first place are you referring to the whole sleepy hollow thing?

Speaker 4: 17:42

everything I like. I like rosenberg as a radio host, don't get me wrong. I like Rosenberg as a radio host, don't get me wrong. I like his personality as a radio host, right. But at the same time, bro, you really ain't from our culture. You a fan of our culture, of what?

Speaker 1: 17:57

we created. Do you think that's why he's kind of pivoting and going more into sports? I think he needs to.

Speaker 2: 18:05

I remember for a minute Hove was on his ass for a minute, wasn't he? Didn't he say something about Hove? Hove had to check him. He had to apologize the very next day. It might have been hot for him ever since then, because I would imagine you're not the only person who feel like that. I feel like that as well, you know, and there's a lot of, there's a lot of, there's a lot of people of of, of that, of that caliber, who who grew like, grew in the culture and grew in affection for the culture and and have a lifestyle that's, that's parallel to the culture. But I don't, I don't believe he's one of them.

Speaker 4: 18:44

No disrespect but you're a Jewish, kid a Jewish man. Really not from the essence of this culture. No disrespect to you, that's a fact. You can't fault how you was born and raised. But at the same time, bro, this is New York City, this is the Mecca, this is what we people of our community of Black, Latinos and Caribbean, we made this culture here Right.

Speaker 2: 19:15

Right. And then, from another standpoint, it can get disgusting depending on how you look at it. Right, if we start talking about the powers that be and those who have control over too much, as is already and for you, they now put your face on top of something that was created, you know, from the bottom for cultural purposes. Right, because we talk about a time when um, we're talking about a time where it wasn't quite easy to just go get a dollar. Where it's not, you need to feel you need to create something to be a part of. So when it comes from there, you'll come from a culture that's totally opposed or totally in control to a, in a position that leaves people powerless, and then you'll come and put your face thing the very thing we created. To step away from that. It's a horrible action. So it is. It's, it's not. It's not, it's not appreciated from any standpoint. I stand with you on that in totality but let me ask you a question now.

Speaker 5: 20:18

We still using the word culture. Now we know where it come from because we are fans of hip-hop, the birth of it, everything. But when you really look back, we really I would say really was just the face of the culture really, because all we really did was entertain. We didn't really know the business aspect of it. You know, I watch.

Speaker 3: 20:43

That's real Rip.

Speaker 5: 20:47

I can't find it. You get a ball when you watch. What is it? Crush Groove. Yeah, when you watch Crush Groove, it gives you like all right. Russell Simmons was like they thought outside the box, cool. His partner Rick Rubin was white, but he was a part of the culture you needed. They didn't know nothing about business, they just knew he can rap, let's get him. And they just really thought outside the box with run and arrow smith. You know, I'm saying just to everything was, it's always been, let's appease the white people, or less yeah, to a certain degree, but I would argue that the culture exists.

Speaker 2: 21:36

The culture exists because of us, way before the appeasement. The culture exists way before the appeasement. The culture exists way before the appeasement I'm talking about. Huh, I'm sorry.

Speaker 5: 21:50

I'm talking about like Cedar Park, like that's where the birth came from 15, 20 Cedar Park Right.

Speaker 2: 21:57

But when I'm talking about the cultural aspect of it, I'm talking about the five, like all five elements, like the knowledge part, the writing part, keeping your hood artistic to your standpoint, the, the freedom of movement with your body. Like. I will argue that it's. It's more. It was cultural because it was something that we all gravitated to and it's still cultural to the day because, like, I don't care how old I get, I I'm going to talk hip hop for the rest of my life. It's how we live. Yeah, I understand where it. My question is this when did it die? Where did the cultural aspect of it die and when did it get sick?

Speaker 4: 22:47

I'm going to say this I don't think the culture ever died the culture. The problem with this is it became. They, the outsiders, turned our culture into a business. Our culture was never a business. To begin with, it was a lifestyle. Our lifestyle became. They took our lifestyle and put it into the music business. We aren't the music business, we are the culture.

Speaker 5: 23:15

Let's just say we got into music. Let's say we was rappers, or at one point I'm pretty sure we all wrote a rhyme I produced and all that. I a rhyme, I produced an order. I still rap. Look at it from this standpoint. You know, you do it as a hobby right At first, because that's what you sing, right. You're outside. You saw the breakdancers, you saw them doing graffiti, you saw the jams in the park. We was at block parties, we lived in block parties, we moved around. But how far could it have went if they didn't add business to it?

Speaker 4: 23:54

No, I'm not saying that we couldn't have added business to it. What I'm saying is we allowed them to, we allowed the business, we allowed the music business to dictate how we move in the culture. Oh okay, which was wrong? We were supposed to let the culture dictate how we move in the culture. We were supposed to let the culture dictate how we handle business. But the problem was, just like most Blacks of entertainment, we didn't understand the business when we got in there. So we were getting robbed left and right. We still get robbed and you think about it, we still don't fully understand the music. None of us really fully understand the music business, because it wasn't created for us to begin with, and then they just switched it again and then they just switched it again anyway.

Speaker 2: 24:36

But to answer your question, how far do I think hip-hop would have gone without the machine? I think the culture would have gone as far as it could have gone because, like the thing is, it was already traveling, like even without. Like all right, you're going to get the notoriety of, of journalism, right, that's that's going to come with anything that's worth attention, right, so we can take that away. That's not the monster, that's just human curiosity, right, that's not the machine, so I would say, even just taking it on the road and showing somebody else. So this is how we do. We do this here. Let's see what y'all do. And it would. It would travel from there, like like you can see it in the city and connect it with, like the rucker and ebc, like you could connect it like. Imagine if we would have had full control of that and would have been really learning how to support it, to the point where they wouldn't have had to go to TNT. You understand, if we would have supported it, they would have never had to do that If we would have had our culture.

Speaker 2: 25:55

You know, anybody remember Ali Mo? God bless his soul. Anybody remember Ali Mo and you know what. A lot of people had a problem with him not going to the NBA. But they didn't realize Ali did it for the Hoy, he did it for Harlem. Anybody got mad. Why you not there? He looking at you, I'm doing this for you. He right on 51st, right across the street from the battlegrounds, right in front of Sherman's, when Sherman's was there. He's doing this for the hood. He put all that to the side. He put all Peavey, peavey, right. Peavey put it to the side even though Peavey was getting hella more money in the hood. But they like yo, come to the Knicks, come do this, come do that. Man, I do this shit for the street, I do this for the culture the negative aspect of the culture but I do it for the culture and it's like I don't need to have that.

Speaker 1: 26:51

We're talking about culture. Hold on real quick. We're talking about culture, right, I think hip-hop got sick when we took aspects, when we highlighted only one aspect of the culture.

Speaker 2: 27:04

Ooh, that need a shot. Can I nominate a shot on that?

Speaker 1: 27:09

That's a weak ball. That can't be a ball.

Speaker 4: 27:14

I think hip-hop got sick when we put the money over the culture.

Speaker 5: 27:18

Now, real quick, fellas, I got one name for y'all Sylvia Robinson. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 27:26

Okay, have one name for y'all sylvia robinson.

Speaker 5: 27:27

Yeah, okay, okay. So let me give you a brief little stint on sylvia, because you know?

Speaker 2: 27:33

yeah, I know about sylvia, but I'd love to hear about it more. Talk about it so, boom we.

Speaker 5: 27:39

That's where the culture started getting robbed by our own people at the beginning. Yeah, because we shook it hell, exactly so that. But here's the thing Some people realize we didn't know certain people didn't know the business and didn't know the language, and didn't know certain words like perpetuity, it's like we got them, so it was really our own people in the beginning who did the the donkey and the carrot to us it was.

Speaker 4: 28:18

But here's the funny thing sugar hill gang first came out. They weren't respected by the culture.

Speaker 5: 28:24

Exactly Because what you call it wrote.

Speaker 4: 28:29

Kaz, yeah, kaz wrote it. But in Kaz and them the authenticity of the culture didn't rock with Sugar Hill Gang. Everybody else rocked it because it became a commercial hit, but the authentic people of the culture was like nah, that ain't it.

Speaker 3: 28:47

I was going to say that too. Add to that Not to hold you Trevor. Whenever you're selling records outside of like 10,000 and you're going to the millions and up, it's not only our culture supporting it. No, I know the middle of America is behind that, so it's what they think as well. Cause you're not going to break a million records with your people alone. Cause let's keep it real, we got the factors as I mentioned before with technology, back then with the bootlegging, and be like, nah, just burn me a copy of that, cause we would bootleg everything.

Speaker 5: 29:14

But this I'm talking about way before bootlegging. Yeah, talking about the beginning, yeah, this is is when we started getting robbed.

Speaker 2: 29:23

Yeah, you know what I'm saying. We got rapidly you talking about, like as far as the splits and paperwork, ownership, writer's rights, performance rights Yep, you talking about that. Ascap work is what you're speaking on.

Speaker 5: 29:37

Let's just say that if we came to the table knowing this is the culture, this is hip-hop, and you say, all right, cool, y'all from the street, y'all from wherever. We just starting it, let's let me show you something. This is how you sell a record, this is what I'm going to get. This is what you're going to get when you reach this plateau, because that's what happens, right, they got robbed, I think.

Speaker 2: 30:03

Then the message comes out which really showed what was going on right that's forward years later hove had that line um I'm overcharging niggas for what they did to the cold crush.

Speaker 5: 30:16

I'm with you I'm overcharging for what they did to the cold crush, but at the same time, there's still no level of education to say, look, I'm going to do this. So you know, I'm going to show you this part of the business. It ain't about just rapping and selling records because you don't need it. You're going to need to know what percent, how much, you get off that dollar.

Speaker 4: 30:40

Also got to remember that in the beginning they didn't know. If they remember, in the beginning this was beginning. This was looked at as a fad. It wasn't even looked at as something that was lucrative. This is a fly-by-night thing, so they're looking at it like, yeah, we're going to get a little bit of money off of this and then we're going to move on back to the R&B and disco and whatever and we're going to keep it moving. What they didn't realize is that this was a culture that was spreading amongst people in poverty.

Speaker 5: 31:12

Once we started getting money and some knowledge about it. That's when you're supposed to put your people on.

Speaker 2: 31:19

That's the problem with it.

Speaker 5: 31:21

He didn't do that because Hovstow gave the standard, the standard industry contract.

Speaker 4: 31:29

because how would he know? All he knew was the standard industry contract At a point because the culture was all about thinking outside the box.

Speaker 5: 31:38

So if you know, if you know a little something, then you're supposed to take that little bit and learn more and think more outside the box.

Speaker 4: 31:48

You were, but this is Puff's first time being an executive. He got funded up front money from what's your man's name? He got Andre Harrell Andre Harrell. He left Andre Harrell because all of them were still getting funded by the Jewish money. Brian Davis, yeah, they were still getting funded by the Jews. They were still getting funded by Jewish money. So everything that they knew about the business was what they learned from the Jews. Yo, let me so. They couldn't. Whatever standard contracts. They was in debt as soon as they had these label deals. You're in debt, so you got to make this money back ASAP. It wasn't like.

Speaker 4: 32:25

It wasn't like yeah, it wasn't just like I'm an independent label and I'm doing this from the ground up. No, they was already being funded, this money Right? So the business was already crooked to begin with.

Speaker 2: 32:41

See, but I don't know right Because how you say it? In the early 80s y'all there was a lot of independent record labels.

Speaker 2: 32:51

There was a lot of independent record labels and they just ended up folding Like there was a lot, like how you say it, a lot of people were into other type of enterprising and got gagged up for that and that kind of killed record labels and so on and so forth. But also that's the very exact reason why it can't. It can't be passed down, Right, because that's not the game. The game is not. Pass it down Like that's, that's not the game. See, when you first, when you first came in and they knew where to corner you at for the market, they didn't. So as you caught up, you started to learn, oh, I need this, I need that, I need the third, I need the fourth, right.

Speaker 2: 33:35

But then it comes to a point where it's like you start meeting more people. You're like, well, how do I get more money? How do I move up? How do I do this? And then they start putting you on Well, you got to do this, you got to do that, you got to get this person, you got to make them do this. So the game is the game, like it's once, once it left the street. It's the game and the game is the game. And that's why it's very few people who can navigate their way through it for eons like like 50, like 50 been navigating his way through this shit since the since the mid 90s be navigating his way through he done had a he done had he done had, yeah, yeah, he playing the game like so.

Speaker 2: 34:17

So there's a, there's a understanding thing, right, that the culture can get you to the industry, right? I remember when, on High 97, it used to be the hip-hop culture, the New York City melting pot, the, this, the, that, the concrete jungle, the melting pot, the hip-hop culture. And then one day that shit just turned into the hip-hop industry and I was like, wait a minute, I remember that shit, clear as motherfucking day, yo it just like that. One day they just stopped calling it the hip hop culture and they started calling it the hip hop industry. And it was at that point. And I'm going to tell you something If you look at it, you got to look at people like the RZA, right, you?

Speaker 2: 35:06

You gotta look at people like the RZA, right? You gotta look at people like, like, like pop, who started doing things outside the culture and bringing it in and making it seem like you had to have that to be a part of it, and so what I'm talking about is like wool wheel. A lot of people might look at it and say, well, nah, that's a cultural aspect, you dress in the hood, this, that and the third, yeah, you might look at it like that. Well, nah, that's a cultural aspect. You dress in a hood, this, that and the third. Yeah, you might look at it like that, right, but it's just another way for them to capitalize off the fact that you're thinking culturally. And it's the same thing with Bad Boy and Sean John, because if you start looking at it after that, then it was rockawit and it was vocab, right. Then you couldn't even come up and be a part of an industry or a culture if you didn't have at least a clothing line.

Speaker 3: 35:53

Can I add something to that what you say? Shawnee as well. Yeah, sure, a lot of people in the hood didn't wear those. A few would wear them, but middle of America was wearing those things.

Speaker 2: 36:04

Right, right, right, and that's and that's the other point. You package it up, you sell it out, and the selling out part is what we're dealing with right now, like when the culture died the selling out part, the packaging up of how we live, and selling it out and then actually selling you the costume that you can now dress like this you can wear this G-Unit gear, you can listen to G-Unit and go G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-Unit and rap nigga, all you want, down your safe strip. Right, because now we talking about getting this money. Like you say, you're not selling millions and millions unless, unless you got middle america with you. You're absolutely right. Then that goes to. That goes to a point that was made early about. Well, how far would the hip-hop industry of going without the machine? It come right back around but?

Speaker 5: 37:03

but you gotta look at it like to look at it like this. I look at it like this. It's always been to appease the white people. You want to make more money you got to cross over.

Speaker 5: 37:14

So while like, okay, you was hot on your block, you hot in your borough, you hot in your city, that's as far as you going, how can we get to Iowa? How can we get to Idaho? How can we get to idaho? How can we get to wisconsin?

Speaker 5: 37:31

It was always you gotta cross over and we know what crossover mean, because epmd was on one of the hottest labels. It was like fuck a. I said we don't have the game to. Really, you know, move forward. We're gonna it's gonna go back to the. We gotta cross over, we gotta get to them. We gotta, we gotta get to the white people because you know we're gonna bootleg it because we don't really support. You know I'm, we're going to bootleg it because we don't really support. You know what I'm saying. You want us to bootleg it because, like Kiss used to say, I'm platinum in the hood off the bootleg. Yeah, cool, but is that really feeding you? Like, I think, once we got it, we got to leave the. I got to satisfy the white man.

Speaker 5: 38:26

However you look at it, it's Chuck and the Javits. And it's even worse today because you got everybody. A fan of money there's no more. A fan of hip-hop. There's no more hip-hop. You may get one or two artists that come out and be with a frustrated song talking about how I pay for all my niggas bills. And these bitches ain't shit. These niggas take all my money, but the moment you get your money, yo I'm putting my man on, I'm buying him all these amiri jeans, I'm taking care of my man, I'm taking care, but we in some type of gay relationship and you really forget what you're doing it for because they tell you well, you want to make this money, you got to do this, you got to do this.

Speaker 2: 39:13

I'm saying a lot of the folk nowadays is how you say, doing it for the bread At the end of the day, for real, doing something that you're good at to survive, it's not a bad thing, right, as long as you have integrity about it. And then, because the health, because the culture is in such chatter and I'm not going to, I'm not going to continuously lay it at the feet of the radio station because, at the end of the day, there's people outside who need to take personal responsibility for that too. Right, see me like I talk to the young boys about, about. I talk to the young boys about hip-hop. Like you understand, I play shit for them. I did that today. I got some young boys I work with, around 21 years old. I sit them down. Yo, listen, it is, we have discussions about it. Yo, that shit is dope, so I can pull them up. You, you understand they where they at. But let me show you a little bit. Like I don't want to be responsible for not passing on what I know.

Speaker 2: 40:12

That is another part of the cultural aspect of this. Dot right, because we didn't take the personal responsibility. Maybe not you guys, definitely not me, but I know a few people. I could look out my window and spot and did not take the personal responsibility of passing a culture down right. So there's always that part too, taking personal responsibility, because if you want to say it's yours, then you've got to claim it and treat it like that you know, and even like, even like real talk, even like these kids with this drill music right, with this drill music right, even like a lot of people don't, they don't like it, they don't listen to it, but at the end of the day, like that's America right now, like when we was kids and we was rapping that shit, that was America, that was America where we was at and it was like niggas didn't want to hear it.

Speaker 2: 41:00

Back then either, they slapped all type of parents through advisories and censors and I don't want to hear that and all type of propaganda against the youth. And I think that's where the ageism comes in with hip hop, because hip hop is still younger than everything else and hip hop has always been the age. It's always been the voice of revolution. Revolution normally comes from the bottom. The bottom is normally the younger. So that's why there's ageism in our culture. Give us some more time. Give us some more time we're getting our museums together. We're having these conversations.

Speaker 5: 41:43

Order should count, but I think like this though I don't think hip-hop is going to cap off around 75, 80. I say that because I look at who's being signed, what's being said. We definitely had the top five. I look at who's being signed, what's being said, All right, and we definitely had the top five. You know conversation, but there won't be a top five because everybody's going to sound the same and, like you said, they already built their museum. And once you start building museums, you might as well just start building pyramids and putting our music in a court. But that's where we're going to have to look for that.

Speaker 5: 42:28

At one point we're gonna have to go back to digging and discovering it, because you got to look at it like this our pioneers are getting old. How, how you, how much they worked out, how good ll look. He's a pioneer, he's going to get old, he's going to die, his music is going to. Eventually, music is going to be there, but it won't be where. I gotta go get that. You know what I mean. You got care, rest, um.

Speaker 5: 43:00

Like I said, these people are going to die, we're going to die, we're going to die. What's going to happen with you said, ageism? What's going to happen with the younger crowd is they're going to get older and they're going to get wiser. They may even change. Some may even go into Christ and just do something totally different, where it's like, oh shit, I was listening to this shit for 10 years. How the hell was I surviving? At that point it's going to really. I was listening to this shit for 10 years. How the hell was I surviving? So at that point it's going to really die because nobody's going to really step out and say I want to do that, I want to be like X-Plan, I want to sit like that.

Speaker 2: 43:35

Well, are you talking about hip hop or are you talking about the culture? Because we talk about two totally different things. Now, I just did a show and then I just was. I just did about, I just did a show and then I just was at a show, right, and the crowd was phenomenal. We did it at the Soho Playhouse, crowd was phenomenal and I saw a lot of hip-hop, like, like, it may still be down here and maybe that's where it comes back to.

Speaker 2: 44:06

You know, because I I definitely believe that people grow out of the technology of, of the trap of, of advertisement. Right, this is how to be black, this is how to be white. This is what white people listen to, this, what black people listen to this. What you should wear. This, what you should drink, is what you should wear. This is what you should drink. This is what you should smoke. This like basically, what I'm saying is, in America, like, whatever path you want to take, yo, it's made easy for you, like, it's made so easy for you. It's tailored down to the color of your skin. But you know, you think for yourself and you find what you want. It's still here. Now let me ask you want, it's still here.

Speaker 5: 44:46

It's still here. Did y'all see, just to veer off a little bit, did y'all see what Bobby Shmurda said?

Speaker 1: 44:53

Yeah, the nail painting and all that.

Speaker 5: 44:55

I feel, like he said they keep asking him for music. Me personally I think Bobby Shmurda got lucky with the Hot Boy shit and that song is really Personally I think, bobby Smyrna got lucky with the hot boy shit.

Speaker 2: 45:06

Yeah, you know what I mean. And that song is really like it's really lyrically and all that it's trash. Let's be real it just has a great feel. It's just so raw. It just got such a great feel to it and, like you said, if anybody got lucky in life ever it was him.

Speaker 4: 45:29

He wasn't doing hip-hop culture on that record, he was imitating.

Speaker 5: 45:34

Chicago street culture Because hip-hop culture he was on drill music. Right, but my thing is with him. He posted that people want to see him keep asking him to put more music out Right, but he said the way it's looking, he's not put music out. And stop asking him, because he don't paint his nails, he's not wearing a song, he's not wearing makeup, he's not wearing lipstick.

Speaker 5: 46:00

He's not piercing his eyebrow and beak piercing his eyebrow and he's not doing none of the weirdo shit that the labels have. You drunk and drinking lean and getting drunk to do all this dumb shit.

Speaker 2: 46:11

No, he's not. He's getting sturdy on his stall. Yes, he is.

Speaker 5: 46:16

Hip-hop is going to cap off because, either way you put it, that's still a part of hip-hop.

Speaker 4: 46:22

No, that's a part of the music industry. That's not the culture of hip-hop.

Speaker 5: 46:25

No that's a music industry, that's not the culture. Okay, okay, so okay, but they're gonna, they're gonna categorize it as hip-hop rap, right, of course the whites, but you, but you're talking about.

Speaker 2: 46:37

Every time you say things like that, you're talking about they and them and how they're gonna categorize it. It, that's industry stuff. That's what we're talking about.

Speaker 5: 46:49

Because it's they versus them and we are the them. And it's even worse than they versus them because it's they versus them, versus us. Us is the pioneers, the beginners, the saviors. Nas got what? Five, six albums. That's classic right now, at fucking 50-something years old.

Speaker 5: 47:17

As he should you know what I'm saying? But he's still able to say oh, boom, boom, boom and not fall in line with with. I need to do this. Now look at how they say the big three, drake, cole and Kendrick. Drake is already veering off fucking with the youngest because his time is slowly going. Your 15 is 10, 9, 8. It's going. So he fucking with a sexy. Why you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2: 47:52

Like it's because he has a business. He has a business, but that's industry stuff, though that's him trying to Like. If you want to talk about anybody who ain't from our culture, he not even from our country, like Wayne from our culture. He's not even from our country, he's not even from our country. So if you wanted to bring up a point of somebody not being from the city and being on our radio station and you can't even consider him hip-hop when he's not even from our, they got their own thing out there. He should be doing what. What was that dude's name? Baby Cardinal's name.

Speaker 3: 48:31

Cardinal Official.

Speaker 2: 48:33

Cardinal.

Speaker 1: 48:33

Official yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:35

Yeah, he should have been following down that road like a Cardinal Official road. Yo, good looking, that's what's going to pull up.

Speaker 5: 48:41

But that's why I say it's they versus them versus us.

Speaker 4: 48:48

They not like us. They not like us.

Speaker 2: 48:52

They not like us, bro, it's us.

Speaker 5: 48:55

It's us, the us, that say you know what? Fuck your money? You're not giving me enough money because if you give me $30 million, you're making $100 million over overhead that I don't know about. So you still not showing me. I don't want this 30. You know what I'm saying? Give me a hundred, you take the 30. But think about this.

Speaker 4: 49:17

The Kendrick, the Kendrick and Drake battle was the prime example of the culture versus the industry. Of course, right, but culture one, because the culture understands Kendrick. We understood what Kendrick was doing Exactly. We completely understood. This is black urban culture versus music industry culture, and hip-hop culture is black urban culture. It's a lifestyle. It's something that we can't escape. We live it every day without thinking about it. We're not trying to be hip-hop, we are hip-hop. Drake, on the other hand, is a guy that's trying to be hip-hop, but you can't be hip-hop because you didn't live this.

Speaker 2: 50:07

That's true and that's why a lot of them songs, like you said, started tailoring. They started tailoring off, getting a little softer, getting a little sing-songy, and start getting further. And then that point that you brought up, that's an excellent point, because now you have to talk about Kendrick's history and 10 years of being a roadie and a backup boy. And he don't put the pain in, he wasn't acting, he was on stage putting the pain.

Speaker 4: 50:37

In what Kendrick does, he actually goes to the origin and authenticity of the legends of the previous eras. It's knowledge and wisdom from them, as you're supposed to gain from the elders. Then you spread that knowledge down to the youth and that's what Kendrick is actually doing. He's technically they say him and Drake are the two biggest rap artists in the country right now. At the moment, those two are the top two big dogs in the country of the culture right now, and look who's actually winning.

Speaker 2: 51:12

Right, in the industry at least.

Speaker 4: 51:16

Look who's actually winning the one that's staying authentic to what this culture represents, because this culture was created by the divine excellence of us represents because this culture was created by the divine excellence of us. So it's going to always revert back. The culture will. Hip-hop culture will never die because it's rooted in us Right.

Speaker 5: 51:38

It dies with us.

Speaker 2: 51:39

Yes.

Speaker 5: 51:41

That's Trevor's point right there.

Speaker 1: 51:43

That's Trevor's point Hold on, on, though let's go back to what trevor was saying. So it dies with us, right? So, as he was saying, we're gonna get older and we're gonna die out. Where is gonna? What's gonna happen with the culture?

Speaker 4: 51:57

got a bunch of young kids that I've seen in tennessee kendrick too so it's going to be a lot of young kids to preserve that part of the culture Right.

Speaker 3: 52:06

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 52:08

And I was in Tennessee. They had a hip hop show where it was breaking, rapping and writing and it was young boys out there and they breaking they not even joking. They breaking, they writing, they rapping. I had a blast. I'm like, oh shit, even joking, they breaking, they writing, they rapping. I had a blast. Just I'm like oh shit. Like, look at these kids, they 15, 16, they out. It's like 8.30, 9 o'clock at night, no school, it's Friday, they parents letting them do they thing I'm like now, I like that, you know, I like that. And then, on another level, how y'all feel about, how y'all feel about hip hop being taught in colleges as a course. How y'all feel about that?

Speaker 3: 52:53

That's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 3: 52:55

Yeah, that's a thing right now, but I wanted to add this before you go, trevor it goes back to the heritage of being an African Because, remember, the Griots back then told stories. The elders passed stories to the young. That's what's happening. It's just that, as Trevor said earlier, the business aspect spoiled it, us not knowing what business was our own selling us out in aspects of the business. And the major thing that crippled all these rec labels back then, that hindered their growth, was distribution. You don't have the power to distribute your own music.

Speaker 3: 53:26

Right you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5: 53:28

Now he said Charlie said like Tennessee, I think to. Really this is me just thinking outside the box. Really, hip hop, I say hip hop, it caps off at 75, 80,. Right Now I'm going to just tweak this a little bit and say go to Europe, go to Belgium, go to Europe, go to Belgium, go to Berlin, go to Germany. I bet you over there you're going to Beirut and Damage concert, you're going to Brand Nubian.

Speaker 3: 54:04

Don't forget.

Speaker 1: 54:05

Japan.

Speaker 5: 54:06

You know what I'm saying. You're going to catch everybody at Rock the Bells, probably Queen Salt Tribe, and you got to look at Tribe. I mean probably Queen Salt Trap, and they and you gotta look at Trap, I mean, and Daylight, you gotta look at Daylight too. They just got their shit on streaming services after.

Speaker 3: 54:22

True Word died. Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 5: 54:26

Hip-hop, probably dies here, but it relives somewhere else.

Speaker 2: 54:32

And that's why I don't die, because it just it just move on right. Because, like yo real talk that point that you brought up about people cross seas. Like that's an excellent point. Because even like even a lonely MC like me, I got fans in Russia. Like I got fans across the world and I live on College Avenue on 169th Street.

Speaker 2: 54:52

I put out music when I feel like you know what I'm saying, like it's so you absolutely right For the love, for the love for the vibe, for the message. No, you absolutely right. Crosses are always and it take care of our baby. It take care of our baby, you know, because they take it serious. So I don't, I don't, I don't know they English too well, you know what I mean. We speak different Englishes, so I have a difficult time really like, oh yeah, now that shit is hard. Like I got a difficult time doing that, but I'm getting it and I always respect it. I respect that Grom thing that they do that when they all hop on a bit of and they all just dump in, like that. I respect that. So they took it and then they put something on it that they like to do. You know what I mean. So it's going to continue, it'll be alright. Man, the industry can't kill us. They've been trying to kill us for eons. We still here. You can't kill us.

Speaker 4: 55:52

You can't kill that. The thing is, if you pay attention, a lot of these younger artists that are popping right now. They're popping with 90s hip-hop records.

Speaker 5: 56:01

Of course, but they don't even know, that's true.

Speaker 2: 56:05

They don't know what it is.

Speaker 4: 56:06

That's true. They're popping with previous hip-hop records. They don't have to know, hey yo, fellas.

Speaker 2: 56:15

My kid is about to die. I'm sorry, I didn't have enough time to charge up. I apologize and all of that. I'm going to have to step out before I get X'd out. I love the conversation. I really appreciate being a part of this, fellas. Thank you, man. I can't wait to come back next Tuesday. Man, I wish you all the best and many, many blessings to you and your family and anybody else that's associated. Joe.

Speaker 3: 56:40

Peace, Peace man.

Speaker 2: 56:41

Peace. See you next Tuesday.

Speaker 3: 56:43

Next Tuesday. For sure, it's true, man. I think, as we were saying earlier, we need to do our own concert. I think NYPD need to fund their own radio station and do their own Summer Jam.

Speaker 5: 56:56

It's Summer Jam, Fuck Summer Jam, Fuck Hot 97. The same thing Ghostface did when he was said fuck, fuck Summer Jam. I remember that.

Speaker 4: 57:06

I want to do that. It was just. Here's the thing. Just focus on what we feel is authentic to the culture. We don't got to do that by shitting on them. You make it what's popping, or make what we like to what our generation and some of the younger generation want to listen to. You try to get those artists involved without knocking what the, without knocking what those billion dollar corporations are doing, because at the end of the day, they're still going to be here regardless because they got the money to pay these artists to show up. Right, you're trying to do it from grassroots level. So if you're trying to do it from grassroots level, you get what you think is going to bring the people out. If the first event pops off and it's dope, the next year is going to be a bigger event. You've got to gradually grow into a bigger event. You gotta you gotta gradually grow into a big event, but you gotta make sure that when these investors start coming in, they don't dictate who we get. They don't dictate how we run this operation.

Speaker 5: 57:59

That's a fact I mean, I just have y'all been to the um rock the bells concert I?

Speaker 5: 58:04

have I think you know, like again, I just go with the notion that, um, I say you know, I say it caps up, but like he said it don't cap, it moves on. Because I feel like, let's just say l thought about rock the bells in early 2000. You know, I'm saying like right now it's like okay, how long do you think you're going to continue to get, uh, a tribe mc light, uh, boot camp click, even though boot camp click is like, I feel like they probably the youngest, oldest group, or uh, just a click for undervalued yo right, you know.

Speaker 5: 58:44

I'm saying like how long do you think rock the bells where it's going to be really about the essence of rap? Hovey would stop doing his Outside B concerts.

Speaker 4: 58:54

Well, I think Rock the Bells will last because they don't just cater to just the previous era. They still have new artists and younger artists on Rock the Bells, but they have a specific part of the young artists. They don't go for commercial, no, they get the Griselda's, they get the Joey Badasses, they get all of those.

Speaker 5: 59:22

Got you the ones that really love it still the ones that really understand and dictate.

Speaker 4: 59:26

I mean not dictate, but understand what goes on in this culture. That's authentic. They still grab those, even though we may not listen to them, because we grew up in a different era. So our music is what we like to listen to from the era that we love so much. But you got the ASAP Ferg, who paid a lot of homage, he's out here letting the kids know yo Wu-Tang was fire, y'all bugging out. You got some of these. You got to remember some of these artists in their 30s now they not 20s, they in their 30s. They letting them know yo you can't disrespect Method man, you can't go at Red man, you can't go with them guys. Them guys is like how we looked at Rakim and them. That's how they're looking at holding them there.

Speaker 5: 1:00:12

But you know what I feel. I feel like the younger generation not to really continue to beat on them, but they're not going to have a 50-year stint to where they're able to go to Germany and March and do a show. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4: 1:00:34

A majority of them won't, and that's fine. We don't need a majority of them. I'm just looking at how many people you don't hear nobody going to a cellar dwellers concert. But, people go and don't. No disrespect to sporty thieves. They was fire for the moment.

Speaker 5: 1:00:54

You know what I'm saying but one of them died, so you ain't gonna get the whole group we had our fire and we had our trash and our error too. But what I'm saying is, even though we had our fire and our trash and our popcorn, this error don't have. None of that. We can't say that we're not.

Speaker 1: 1:01:16

You know. I want. I got a question for you, for you clip, who right now hot lyrically 20 years old in the 20s, yeah jrd oh, okay, um JID.

Speaker 4: 1:01:34

Ooh, okay, what's? My guy from the Bay Area, lil' Russell. It's a few of them. I just can't remember off the top, like it's a lot of names off the top of my head, but it's a few of them that got it.

Speaker 5: 1:01:50

But look when you name who you name. You name JID. Yeah, get the predecessor above him J Cole. Yeah, the predecessor above J Cole is Nas.

Speaker 4: 1:02:01

Yeah, it's always going to be a lineage. I got that.

Speaker 5: 1:02:05

You see what I'm saying. But look when we look at today's drill. Robert their predecessor is probably Meek Mill.

Speaker 4: 1:02:14

No, their predecessor is Chief Keef Chief.

Speaker 3: 1:02:16

Keef. Right, it's Chief Keef. But who started that sound? I'll have to cut you off, trevor.

Speaker 4: 1:02:21

Their predecessor is Waka Flocka.

Speaker 3: 1:02:22

Waka Flocka. I'm about to go there. It was Waka Flocka that sound.

Speaker 4: 1:02:25

Flocka's predecessor is Gucci Mane and Gucci Mane's predecessor is what's it called? Ugk, UGK, Goody Mob, Outkast and all of them. It's still a family tree. It's a lineage. We don't resonate with drill music because it's not on our frequency, and that's fine. It doesn't have to be on my frequency. It's still a lineage that's being passed down. In the 90s.

Speaker 5: 1:02:53

I know for a fact mad new yorkers wasn't listening to three, six mafia I was I ain't gonna lie I was because at the other day, at that time, new york was playing new york, tennessee was playing tennessee down south was playing down south new or was playing New Orleans. Now you gotta remember when New York started playing they had a thing On Hot 97 I think, on Fridays in the afternoon when they would play one record From a new Region and it was mainly Down South. Then what happened? We went into crunk music, crunk became southern at a time and then it went to Texas Fared all the way down but it stopped playing New York 90s. Remember New York really was playing New York. We had Future Flavors on Sunday night.

Speaker 3: 1:03:55

Yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 5: 1:03:56

Future Flavors. It was all New York at one point, because this is what you had to do. You had to play your own. When people start copying and saying, hold up, no, I'm doing it because of this, you got to listen to that. Okay, that's cool, but let's get back to boom when Rockefeller went to Flex and had Beanie Freeway, that was crazy. There's no other radio station doing that in no region but us, and we're not even doing that, no more.

Speaker 4: 1:04:32

No, I can't say that LA's doing that.

Speaker 5: 1:04:34

Yeah, probably LA. I'm sorry because the leak is getting stupid.

Speaker 4: 1:04:37

Yeah, the leak is getting crazy.

Speaker 3: 1:04:39

Trevor, can I add to you? I cut you a ways. Hold on. You know who opened the doors for that down south thing. A New Yorker did it.

Speaker 4: 1:04:54

When Drag on, did that track with Juvenile Down bottom? I can't say that because Ray Kwan was on Old School Plays and New School Foods Cask Keeper Kangaroos Way before that, you're talking about the bounce, that whole bounce with that.

Speaker 5: 1:05:05

I think Hove really put it off. When he did the remix to Ha, we were saying bling, bling and Ha. But when Hove said when he did the remix to Ha, Because we was saying bling, bling and Ha, but when Hov said when he did the remix to Ha, nigga was like no Limit was out before that.

Speaker 4: 1:05:19

So no Limit was already getting praise when he was no Limit records and all of that Back then. So the South was going to get their. They was going to make their mark known regardless. They was already going to make their known mark. Because we forget that? Two live crew in Miami, Luke it ain't me.

Speaker 5: 1:05:39

The difference with New York and other states is we can get on a train and go to Columbia Records, we can go to Sony Records, we can go to Hot 97, power 105. A lot of them can't do that dance, so you had to create your own, yes? Or for you to say chase the labels, let's chase the labels. Let's chase the labels. Like I can't chase the label because I don't have a car to get there. It's too damn far. It's in another city, even though it's in my, you know, region. Can't get there. What I'm going to do, I'm going to go to my man house and do on some what's that movie with Terrence Howard.

Speaker 5: 1:06:18

Yeah, he did some hustle and flow shit, some real hustle and flow shit and just said I'm going to create my own and got a lot of money doing that. Right, he got the money. It wasn't until who did it first down there it was no Limit and did Cash Money.

Speaker 4: 1:06:35

It was Rap-A-Lot. Rap-a-lot, but they had Rap-A-Lot, suave House and Luke first.

Speaker 3: 1:06:44

Those three. West Coast was too short right.

Speaker 4: 1:06:49

West Coast was Eazy-E, I think E-40. The two shows were out of jobs, e-40 and Eazy-E. Those were the two predecessors in the West Coast.

Speaker 5: 1:07:02

Right. But what I'm saying is, with New York, we've always been spoiling you to just saying I can go here and get this and eventually it would happen, because I don't need to create my own, because I'm going to focus on whoever else created their own and I'm going to work for them. If South had to really say this is Southern hospitality. Oh, my man over here, he rap. My man over here, he do a beat, he do this, he sing Boom. Put it all together. Now we no limit. Now we cash money.

Speaker 4: 1:07:34

They got a place of their own because they wasn't getting respected up there.

Speaker 5: 1:07:39

They just on different sides and they know each other. It was never no beef, but you come to New York. I'm the king of New York. I'm the king of this. I'm the do this. I'm the first to do this. You're not the first. Your predecessors was was calvin klein, kevin chow's supreme and they wasn't rappers.

Speaker 5: 1:08:01

That's all that was and if they did it how they were supposed to do it, it's like all right, realize it, I'm getting old. This game is getting old. What's the new game? To jump in Music Hoes? All right, boom, he had Big Daddy Kane. But if Calvin, if Klein was out with the money, they probably wouldn't even have been a Rockefeller. No, supreme had Murder Inc, but Supreme wanted to be Supreme. You understand? That's where all that came from. With New York, once we started titling what I am, what I am, even though Atlanta had TI, the King of the South, you had Ludacris the mayor, everybody still ate. Everybody was like you know what? Because you can't go to New York with that dumb shit. We still got to stick together as a people. There was unity in all those other states but New York.

Speaker 4: 1:08:53

Because there wasn't no unity in the boroughs.

Speaker 5: 1:08:55

Exactly so. You know, we knew who was hot. And then it was like you know, cove and Big at the time could have said yo, we gonna do it. We did do this for Brooklyn. Fat Joker could have said I'm doing this for the Bronx. Nas could have just jumped on and said I'm doing this for the Bronx. Nas could have just jumped on and said I'm doing this for Queens. And anybody in Queens, whether you're from Queens Bridge all the way to Far Rock right behind me, you good, you know what I mean. Staten Island already had Wolf. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4: 1:09:26

Four cities, Wolf, Granddaddy, IU, yeah, all of that.

Speaker 5: 1:09:30

They had what. Who was before Cam?

Speaker 4: 1:09:35

Who Harlem yeah Way bigger Dougie Fresh.

Speaker 5: 1:09:39

But you could have had somebody leading the way like alright, we Harlem, but even though we all different boroughs, new York is going to stand together. You can't move unless you got these are the five kings of the city the problem with New York is we.

Speaker 4: 1:09:55

We shitted on outsiders that wasn't from New York beforehand, before, and they held on to that, to us shitting on them, and when they started popping off, we don't need New York, no more and then New York went and did some dumb shit and said I'm sorry, I'm going to get on your record and you're going to make me hot again.

Speaker 4: 1:10:17

It wasn't the city that was the problem. It was the representation of who was in the spotlight, because the fans and the people that would live in hip-hop culture. We liked a lot of that out-of-town shit Right, but the people and the labels and all of them was like man, we don't want to hear that Southern goofy shit. And they thought that that was a representation of the people in the streets. That wasn't.

Speaker 5: 1:10:46

And then we forget about Yonkers, because Yonkers is the cousin of everybody.

Speaker 4: 1:10:50

Yeah, the thing with New York hip-hop is New York hip-hop will get back to where it needs to be eventually. It's just not going to happen right now. We're going to have a breakthrough artist that's going to unify the city because he's going to be so hot. Here's the thing. New York right now is going through the ops phase, where everybody's an enemy, enemy, enemy, enemy. There's always going to be that one neutral artist that's going to come through.

Speaker 1: 1:11:13

Pop Smoke was that Was that kind of guy.

Speaker 3: 1:11:17

Man.

Speaker 4: 1:11:20

He was going to be big though.

Speaker 1: 1:11:21

I don't think he unified the city at that point.

Speaker 3: 1:11:25

Him and Casco had a little moment and they made peace before he passed.

Speaker 4: 1:11:28

That was a big thing. That wasn't a New York City thing.

Speaker 5: 1:11:32

I think New York was watching them because at one point that run record was crazy with Casanova. Pop came out with his record. I didn't know who he was at the time, but when them two, them niggas, was really like Godzilla and King Kong for Brooklyn.

Speaker 4: 1:11:54

They had a New York energy that was authentic to New York.

Speaker 1: 1:11:59

Check this out. I think the Brooklyn drill that was getting big and then Bronx picked it up and K-Flock came out. It was really turning into something and then everybody started catching cases.

Speaker 3: 1:12:14

That's the crazy part about it. When I see those videos of those young kids in the Bronx or Brooklyn, you can see that energy off of them is raw. I'm like they are going to hurt somebody.

Speaker 4: 1:12:24

That's the problem. It was too much. It's gang culture now in New York City that's ruining hip-hop culture.

Speaker 5: 1:12:36

Now do you think we're all 40 plus? Am I correct?

Speaker 4: 1:12:39

That is correct. Yeah, all right.

Speaker 5: 1:12:43

Now I don't want to be the dead horse, but you think by the time we turn 50, we're going to see that breakthrough New York artist to where New York is? Yeah, we'll get it. You think we're going to appreciate it at 50? Because me personally, I'm going to always try to get to see it. Nice, I'm going to go and try to see KRS. I feel like South Bronx is my blood, spells South Bronx. I feel like Joe, I want to see KRS. I feel like South Bronx is my blood, says spells South Bronx. I feel like Joe, I'm going to go. I want to see Joe. I'm always going to see. I don't feel like New York is going to get that. I don't feel like hip-hop period is going to get that burst. That's going to make me say ooh, you know what I'm saying We'll get it.

Speaker 4: 1:13:31

I think we're going to get it because it happens every day. It happens like every 10, 20 years.

Speaker 5: 1:13:37

But yeah, but we're looking. In 20 years we're going to be senior citizens legally.

Speaker 4: 1:13:47

You got to remember we had a New York big artist less than a decade ago. The whole city went behind her. It was Cardi B. Yeah, yeah, Even if you don't like her, even if you don't like her, the city was behind her.

Speaker 5: 1:13:59

You're right.

Speaker 4: 1:14:00

You're right. I understand. The preference is a different thing. The city was behind Cardi B. You are absolutely right. I'm not saying she's the dopest no, I'm not gonna say nothing like that, but there is. You get those errors where you know it's an artist with a whole getting behind I'm gonna.

Speaker 3: 1:14:21

I'm gonna take it back to 03, because I was disappointed with hip hop from 2002, but when 03, when 50 hit came back, oh god I went to summer jam 03 that year, when I mean that building was shaking, it was shaking, yo, they waited for him. I waited in the rain. You see, I'm in the video If you look at it.

Speaker 4: 1:14:38

I'm in the rain we booed Nelly that year at Summer Jam. Get off the stage. We don't want to see none of that. Nas got booed that year.

Speaker 3: 1:14:47

Yeah, I felt bad. I'm like what happened yo?

Speaker 4: 1:14:49

Knob got booed that year because he came out and let KRS-One perform the Bridge Is Over. What are you doing? Nelly got booed off the stage when he tried to do that record with him and Kelly Rowling Get him off the stage. Booed, we damn near booed Eminem. Get him off. Where is 50 Cent?

Speaker 3: 1:15:07

Yeah, when 50 came, that booing the bulletin was shaking the roar Listen we gotta get out of here.

Speaker 5: 1:15:17

Man. I got some shit I gotta tend to, but listen, I feel what you saying, Cliff, about Cardi. You caught me with that one because I forgot about it, but I'll give you a math problem real quick. Joe Budden stopped rhyming nine years ago. Mm-hmm. Cardi B's album. She had one album that came out seven years ago.

Speaker 4: 1:15:43

Yep.

Speaker 5: 1:15:43

You do the math on the New York back end. Behind that it's coming. I doubt it. I promise you it's coming. She's scared, it's no more. I don't think she has enough.

Speaker 4: 1:15:50

I promise you, it's coming.

Speaker 5: 1:15:51

She's scared, it's no more. I don't think she has enough. I don't think she cares. That's true, but I don't think she has enough knowledge or experience to say something else besides. Her pussy is wet and she getting paid for it.

Speaker 4: 1:16:12

I don't think she's paying it Right. She got in the game. She got in the game and got all these other business ventures. The rapping don't matter to her no more, because she getting money off of everything else.

Speaker 5: 1:16:22

I'm going to look her up and see what she does and see what else she does. Got that Fashion Nova deal. How long ago was that?

Speaker 4: 1:16:33

I remember when she first came out, yeah, that deal got a lot. She still it's still. It's like a long wifty deal that deals a lot of money involved.

Speaker 5: 1:16:37

I remember her. I remember her little ad she did on instagram my shoes are 1500, my jeans are 10, my shirt is five. Fashion, oh, this is how I stay saving money.

Speaker 4: 1:16:48

I get artists you know, drop one album and then don't. Don't if we make enough money to take a seven-year break.

Speaker 5: 1:16:55

She's been doing features. I get that, but as the she came under Nicki, she's supposed to be that one.

Speaker 4: 1:17:06

But Nicki can't even move. No units right now. Right, the game has shifted. It's not even about albums anymore, it's about branding. It's about branding. It's about what it's about branding. Once my brand is there, I do whatever I gotta do to keep my brand alive. It's not even about the music, no more. The music is just the usher, the platform of the brand.

Speaker 5: 1:17:38

I think we gotta get a young dude on here yo man, I've been trying to get my little cousin up here we gotta get a young dude up, but he, he's, he's, he's, he's into the drill music.

Speaker 5: 1:17:44

That's what we need him that's cool, hell yeah need them because you remember real quick before I go remember we had all types of energy back then we was young. There was knowledge of self, right yeah the gangsters. There was gangster music, there was conscious music. You know what I'm saying? All that was hip-hop. So we need that breakdown of drill and the understanding of it Because, like we said, we was able to listen to X-Klan Tribe De La NWA, Tim Dogg, Jay-Z, Nas, Biggie Tupac, Mobb Deep, Exactly, Mobb Deep. All of that. We need that piece just so we can see what happened.

Speaker 3: 1:18:39

Can I be honest with you, trev? I was on some stuff growing up, listening to Mobb Deep. I just wanted to hang out in the projects. I don't know what it was about the projects. Mobb Deep makes me want to hang out in the projects all day in the staircase. That's all I wanted to do and listen to Mobb.

Speaker 5: 1:18:56

D. I wanted to go to Queensbridge but I know when Havoc said that line, no matter how much money I get for leaving the project, he was a stone cold liar.

Speaker 3: 1:19:06

Yeah, he left.

Speaker 5: 1:19:09

I got to get out of here.

Speaker 1: 1:19:10

Yo, thank you, Trev. Thanks, I gotta get out of here, yo. Thank you, Trev. Thanks for everybody watching. We're back tomorrow peace.