Is the United States really just another corporation, or is it a sovereign nation? Join us as we dissect this provocative question by exploring the psychology and motivations behind the belief that the U.S. operates as a corporate entity. We unravel the flawed logic that claims laws are merely business contracts and trace the theory back to its European origins. By distinguishing actual businesses named "United States Corporation Company" from the nation itself, we aim to bring clarity to this heated debate. We also tackle misconceptions about the Delaware incorporation and the District of Columbia Act of 1871, debunking myths about a supposed corporate constitution.
We then journey through the evolution of the sovereign citizen movement, its intersection with the Moorish identity, and its ties to modern political factions like MAGA and QAnon. Discover the true purpose of the District of Columbia Act of 1871 and how European sovereign citizens initially aimed to bankrupt the U.S. government. Through firsthand accounts, we shed light on their transition from fringe activism to political integration, revealing the continuity of their rhetoric in contemporary right-wing ideologies. This chapter exposes the strategic shifts that have mainstreamed extremist beliefs, impacting today's political landscape.
Finally, we clear up the confusion surrounding legal documents like birth certificates and driver's licenses, debunking the myth that all-caps formatting signifies a corporate entity. Personal anecdotes illustrate the futility and legal risks of attempting to monetize these documents. We also discuss the implications of the term "black" within U.S. federal law and how it affects the sovereign citizen movement. By emphasizing the importance of political education and collective action, we offer historical examples and advocate for legislative over judicial solutions. Stay tuned for our upcoming episodes on martial arts and the deep dive into hip-hop music.
Is the United States really just another corporation, or is it a sovereign nation? Join us as we dissect this provocative question by exploring the psychology and motivations behind the belief that the U.S. operates as a corporate entity. We unravel the flawed logic that claims laws are merely business contracts and trace the theory back to its European origins. By distinguishing actual businesses named "United States Corporation Company" from the nation itself, we aim to bring clarity to this heated debate. We also tackle misconceptions about the Delaware incorporation and the District of Columbia Act of 1871, debunking myths about a supposed corporate constitution.
We then journey through the evolution of the sovereign citizen movement, its intersection with the Moorish identity, and its ties to modern political factions like MAGA and QAnon. Discover the true purpose of the District of Columbia Act of 1871 and how European sovereign citizens initially aimed to bankrupt the U.S. government. Through firsthand accounts, we shed light on their transition from fringe activism to political integration, revealing the continuity of their rhetoric in contemporary right-wing ideologies. This chapter exposes the strategic shifts that have mainstreamed extremist beliefs, impacting today's political landscape.
Finally, we clear up the confusion surrounding legal documents like birth certificates and driver's licenses, debunking the myth that all-caps formatting signifies a corporate entity. Personal anecdotes illustrate the futility and legal risks of attempting to monetize these documents. We also discuss the implications of the term "black" within U.S. federal law and how it affects the sovereign citizen movement. By emphasizing the importance of political education and collective action, we offer historical examples and advocate for legislative over judicial solutions. Stay tuned for our upcoming episodes on martial arts and the deep dive into hip-hop music.
All right, what's going on? Oh wow, what's going on. Everybody, it's Ron Brown, liberty to People's Fitness Professional alongside my co-host. Mikey Fever and the brother, sharif Anil Bey, in the building. Again, we missed a week. We missed a week. A lot going on, probably too much, but we're back. We're back. Tonight we're going to talk about the United States. Is it a corporation or not? Is the United States a corporation or?
Speaker 3:
not. This is going to ruffle a lot of feathers. Yeah, it's going to ruffle a lot of feathers. So, before we got on, first I want to rise giving praise to Allah. Honest prophet, noble drawl, the honest and more silent civil America. Honest to New York perspective podcast, honest to the hosts, honest to the viewers. So, brother, my kids, just before we got on, mikey had said you know, yeah, you know, it has a president, you know. So the organ is, or it operates or acts like a corporation with respect to certain functions. We're going to get into it a little more deep.
Speaker 3:
But this whole thing of the United States as a corporation, first we have to look at the psychology behind those who are pushing this the United States as a corporation. What is the psychology? What is the motive for pushing this thing? What's the motive? The motive is if it's a corporation, follow me. If it's a corporation, then for the corporation to have anything binding on me as the individual, I must be doing business with the corporation. Therefore, there must be a contract, and if there's no contract, then there's no authority. This is the logic, or the illogic, behind wanting to assert that the United States is a corporation. In other words, in short. If it's a corporation, I don't got to obey the laws. See, that's what that's coming from. So I had to. I had to. I want to put that out there first. Ok, all right.
Speaker 3:
So the question is is it a corporation or is it a sovereign nation? To be more more complete, is it a corporation or is it a sovereign nation? To be more complete, is it a corporation or is it a sovereign nation? Well, a corporation, all corporations, first and foremost, have an incorporating authority. In other words, there's an authority from which, or there's a power from which, the corporation derives its authority from. There's a power that created the corporation. Is the question, or is the fact. So the question now becomes well, what, what, what power created the United States as a corporation, if it's a corporation? Now, when you ask that question, you get all kinds of responses. You hear people say, oh, the Vatican. Or you have some people who will say, oh, the state of Delaware, because the United States is a Delaware corporation, and they pull up an incorporation document that says United States Corporation. Have you guys ever seen that before?
Speaker 1:
The United States Corporation as a document.
Speaker 3:
No, as an incorporation document coming out of one or more of the states of a corporation called the United States Corporation.
Speaker 1:
I think I've seen that before.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I've seen them too. Guess what we did? We called the corporations up because they had phone numbers. We called them up, right, you know what they were Businesses called the United States Corporation Company. That's what they're called. And what did they do? They helped facilitate the creation of corporations. That's what they're called at the call the United States Corporation Company. That they're called the United States Corporation Company. When we told them you know that there's people that believe that you're the United States of America they started cracking up.
Speaker 3:
I could dig that and then they asked a very simple question Well, if the United States of America is a corporation incorporated by one of the several states, what United States is that incorporating state a part of?
Speaker 2:
Maurice, I heard stories that they try to say that there's an LLC something some place. I don't know if you heard that theory before.
Speaker 3:
Yes, Again, we've done it. It's not even a theory. There are companies called United States corporations, but they're companies. That's not the nation.
Speaker 2:
Got you yeah.
Speaker 3:
And if it was the nation, what nation? Okay, if it was a nation and it's incorporated by Delaware or Nevada or New York or Florida, the question now becomes well, what United States are those states a part of, if they incorporated the United States? See, makes no sense at all. See Makes no sense at all.
Speaker 1:
So so yeah, right brother See, makes no sense at all. So, so, yeah, so when they say the United States is separate, the United States of America, america American Republic is separate from the United States.
Speaker 3:
Brother, let me tell you once again, again this is this is 2024. I've been involved in what I believe in the Moorish movement since 1991, summer of 91. In the summer of 91, all the way up till, probably, 2001,. That's exactly what we believed, you know. We believe that there was a difference between the United States of America and the US period. We believe that. You know why we believed it? Because we were told that by European sovereign citizens. That's why, and that's where that came from, that's literally where it came from. That's where it came from. The European sovereign citizens said that there's a difference between the united states of america, the republic, and the? U period s period, which is a corporation. That that's what they say and they said well then you ask them how was it formed? How was the corporation formed? Know what they'll tell you? They'll tell you that the Act of 1781 created it. That's one of the things they'll tell you. There's a couple, but we're familiar with all the arguments. So they'll say oh well, it was created with the District of Columbia. The District of Columbia is the corporation. It's the United States corporation created with the Act of 1871.
Speaker 3:
Anybody who says that, you know what I can guarantee They've never read the Act of 1871. They never read it. Okay, that's the thing. If they read it, they would read. You know? See what they say. The claim is that the passing of the district of columbia act of 1871 created the corporation called the united states and gave it a commercial version of the constitution. That's, that's the claim. Here's the truth. The act actually says quote all that part of the territory of the United States included within the limits of the District of Columbia be and the same is hereby created into a government by the name of the United States. Again, anybody saying that they already betrayed the fact that they never even read the District of Columbia Act of 1871, because if they read it, you see Hold on Reef, not to hold you.
Speaker 2:
Anyone who's watching the show, please share it. Comment, share like. Subscribe. Let your people know you're getting some good information here. Follow our pages. The listeners continue to download. We appreciate y'all. My bad, my brother, go ahead.
Speaker 3:
No problem, no problem. So again, and I'll read for the audience. I'll read directly from the District of Columbia Act of 1871. That all a part of the territory of the United States included within the limits of the District of Columbia be and the same is hereby created into a government by the name of the District of Columbia and be contracted with, sue and be sued, plead and be impleted, have a seal and exercise all powers of a municipal corporation not inconsistent with the Constitution of the United States and the provisions of this act. There you go. That was not the creation of the United States or another United States. That was the creation of the District of Columbia. They are not the same. See Matter of fact.
Speaker 3:
On page 419 of the very act it says this it establishes a governor, a legislative council, specifies their qualifications and sets their pay and how they're to be elected, what monies they can spend, for what purpose and how it must be accounted for, and deals with other mundane matters for the district only. It does not create a constitution, not even for itself. For itself, nor does it say the government created is for the United States. That's right. And it manifestly does not contain nor refer to an abridged or any other version of the Constitution of 1789, except the Constitution itself. So it didn't create another Constitution. You see what I'm saying. And it says and the of and for issue is also a non-issue, for the simple fact that the government created was and is the District of Columbia. So this is what they'll say. They'll say well, there's the Constitution of the United States and then there's the Constitution for the United States. It doesn't even matter, because the act itself does not say it's creating another United States. It says it's creating the District of Columbia, so it doesn't even matter. See Further, when it is said that the Constitution is created for the United states in the preamble, it's not the title, but it's an explanation of an action.
Speaker 3:
So it's not the title constitution for the united states. That's not what it is it's saying. It says do ordain and establish this constitution. For who? For the United States. Get it. It's just basic common English comprehension. It's not legalese. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:
I have a question, Reeve when did these European sovereign citizens get this information from? Like what, the inception of it? Where did it come from?
Speaker 3:
The info, or here's a better way to phrase that I'll modify. You know, I know what you're saying. Where did they get their narrative from?
Speaker 2:
Exactly.
Speaker 3:
Answer to that is this Again, one of the elder European sovereignan sovereign citizens name was leonard pep. The late leonard pep told me out of his own mouth. He said we're we're at war with our own government. We're trying to bankrupt the government. So he told me see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:
That's the motive so that's what that. Uh, correct me if I'm wrong. That's where that whole flag came from, with the snake on it don't tread upon me, and all that stuff.
Speaker 3:
Those were all pre-revolutionary flags, if you remember. Yeah, because they were beefing with the oppression from Great Britain.
Speaker 2:
That's what that was. You see, I know I hear them a lot at war with Great Britain, like we're trying to get under the yoke of King George and everything else, and I thought that all that gave birth to this whole thing.
Speaker 3:
Right, I mean, I mean, you know those, it? Not this. Now, ask those guys, when I see those guys, I'm talking about the sovereign citizen principle adherence, yeah, which, by the way? Do you know where they are now, though the people that see, they've evolved as man unfolds, as God unfolds. Man's ideal is his, god, right? So we're talking to sovereign citizen stuff, right, standalone sovereign citizen stuff. It goes back to, like the mid seventies, early eighties. It goes back now as it begins to interface with what, what we with Moorish identity we're talking early 90s Was when that started to happen, right. But guess what? Those European sovereign citizens? Right, they evolved. You know what they are now. You know where they are. They're MAGA people.
Speaker 1:
Oh wow, Do you have any?
Speaker 3:
proof of that, because that would be a bomb. Absolutely All you have to do is know the tenets of the sovereign citizen movement and you hear them come out of the MAGA people's mouths. You hear the MAGA people nowadays saying the United States is a corporation. You hear them saying now, the United States is a corporation. You hear them saying now, the United States, the true United States, is a republic, not a democracy. You hear them saying that stuff now.
Speaker 2:
I was around people that were caught up in that whole MAGA QAnon thing.
Speaker 3:
Okay, you hit it right on the nose. You want to find where the sovereign citizens are now. They're the extreme right, the MAGA people, they're the Christian identity people, the evangelicals, and they're the QAnon people. That's what they are.
Speaker 2:
Where one go, we all go.
Speaker 3:
Yeah Well, see what they realize. See, here's the thing. Follow me. See the stuff that our people now I'm talking about, wearing stazs and turbans, talking to sovereign citizens stuff, thinking it's mortgage right. Where they are now was where the Europeans were 20 years ago. 25 years ago, the Europeans realized that doesn't work. So guess what they did? They politicized, they got with the political party and they said so guess what they did? They politicized, they got with the political party and they said you know what, if we're going to change things, we're going to change it from the inside, not the outside.
Speaker 2:
See, that's a smart thing.
Speaker 3:
Now you got to remember narrative and motive, narrative and motive. Narrative and motive. What is MAGA's endgame? What is MAGA's narrative here? It is people. All they did, all the Trump strategists did right.
Speaker 3:
When we're looking at the MAGA ideology, we're looking at the Southern strategy warmed over. We're looking at the Southern strategy warmed over. We're looking at the Southern strategy done over again. What is the Southern strategy? The Southern strategy was when LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act in 1965, and the Dixiecrats abandoned the Democratic Party and flipped and went to the Republicans. And how was this done? It was done under the auspices of flaming old racial hatreds and using that as a rally, a political rallying cry. That's what happened.
Speaker 3:
And see, here's the crazy part you got a lot of people on the MAGA side that criticize our people because they say, hey, you all are serially Democrat, but how can you vote Democrat when it was the Democrats that enslaved you, when it was the Democrats that housed the KKK? The KKK were Democrats. They can only say this to us because we are not familiar with the Southern strategy. See that Right. The Republican Party is considered conservative. The Democratic Party is considered liberal. Am I correct? What do you know? In the 60s and the 50s and the 40s and the 30s, it was just the opposite. Prior to the Southern strategy, republicans were considered liberal, dems were considered conservative. Slavery, pro-slavery was a conservative issue, abolition was a liberal issue. Go ahead, brother Ron.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for the five bucks AYB more films Peace, brother Sharif, what do you say when I can't really see that? Mike, can you see that?
Speaker 2:
He said peace, peace, brother Sharif. What do you say when I can't really see that, mike? Can you see that he said peace, peace, brother Sharif? What do you say to one who distinguish or separate sovereign citizen from and sovereign citizen, separate sovereign and sovereign citizen. What's the distinguish between?
Speaker 3:
Well, we're only using the term sovereign citizen, because this is, you know. We're only using the term sovereign oh it's not sovereign citizen stuff, because they'll say this isn't sovereign citizen stuff. But it's the exact same tactics, exactly. And it's the exact same narrative. It's the exact same principles. You see what I'm saying. So you could say oh no, not sovereign citizen. You're doing the same things that sovereign citizens do. You believe the same things. Sovereign citizens believe you're doing the same things that sovereign citizens do.
Speaker 2:
You believe the same things sovereign citizens believe and you're behaving the same way that they behave, so they get slammed on their head on the side of the road.
Speaker 3:
You already know, bro, exactly. You see, you know, and as it relates to the I don't want to get too far off the topic, but as it relates to the more size symbol of America, the organization, all the early to the more science temple of America, the organization, all the early sovereign citizen types that identify as Moorish, would say, oh, stay away from the temple. The temple's infiltrated, the temple's switched up. That's not what the prophet really was trying to go. He's really trying to go this way. And then what happened, brother Mikey? They got slammed on their head and dragged out of vehicles a few times and said, oh, we're in the Moral.
Speaker 1:
Science.
Speaker 3:
Temple of America. They want to hide behind the organization for protection.
Speaker 1:
I think this is a good question to expound upon, because I thought about this as well at some point in my studies. He says it's just, some brothers say we are sovereign, but not sovereign citizens.
Speaker 3:
Right, because they'll say this, brother Ron. They'll say sovereign means yes, I'm the ruler, I'm the king, and a citizen means a subject, which means I'm a slave. Neither one is correct, especially in American society. You can prove it Any of you that have a Blacks Law Dictionary, if you have a third or fourth edition. Look up the phrase the sovereign power or the sovereign people. Look up the sovereign people and guess what it tells you. It says that they are the body of constituents, in other words citizens, that exercise the sovereign power by way of the political process. Whoa, you mean to tell me that the sovereign power is voting? The answer is yes. See that, gotcha. And only citizens are voting. How about that? And there is no such thing as a sovereign without a what Subject?
Speaker 2:
Breaking it down.
Speaker 3:
There's no such thing. There's no such thing as a whole nation of sovereigns. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's foolish.
Speaker 3:
Right, your household don't operate that way, does it? Ok? See, a lot of this is just common sense. You know what I'm saying. When you look at, when you look at this from a logical and responsible perspective and I don't mean to be disrespectful but when you look at some of the things that the tenants that are being pushed by people believe, some of these things, it's ice cream for bedwetters. You know, it really is just like come on, man, you don't operate that way in your own house. You think a nation could operate like that? Bugger? You see, and that's the problem. So when they hear, they'll say well, there's no such thing as a sovereign system. That's an oxymoron. One's a king and one's a slave. Now they're playing semantics with the words Exactly. You get it If you're doing exactly what these people do and what they've been. See, here's the other part of the problem. Again, if this was the late 80s and you talked to law enforcement of the courts and you said sovereign citizen, they'd say white supremacists, because that's what they were and that's what they are.
Speaker 3:
You see what I'm saying yeah it wasn't from the, it was from the 90s to the to the early 2000s that the complexion began to change about sovereign citizens. You see, now you talk to law enforcement, say sovereign citizen, they're thinking fez in a turban and brown skin.
Speaker 2:
See, as a domestic threat, though that's a problem, you know you know why, though, brother, let me tell you.
Speaker 3:
I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that you know why? Because there's a very, very popular law enforcement training video showing a state police officer on a highway stop where they stopped a man and his son, both European, both pale, and they were sovereign citizens. And during the stop these guys pulled out AR-15s and lit the cops up. That's why it's SOS on sovereign citizens when it comes to law enforcement. Sos meaning shoot on sight.
Speaker 2:
But you know, because you know, brother Ron and I got this podcast going. I think we got to go to the bank and tell them listen, we got land patents.
Speaker 3:
The studio right here, because but see, now there's another point, right, I want to move forward with this whole thing. So there's another point. You know about this whole United States as a corporation that people will go to and they'll say it's proof, and where they're going is Title 28, united States, code, section 3002. Let me repeat it again Title 28, united States, code, Section 3002. To be very but let's be very specific, very specific, it's Title 28, part 6, chapter 176, subchapter A, section 3002. So this is what they do. You ready? They'll just go right to. They'll ignore all those other things I said. They'll use those just to find a few words. Here we go. Section 3002 says this, as used in this chapter. Quote United States, end quote, means A, a federal corporation. And they stop right there. They're like ah see, the United States is a corporation. Stop, that's not what it says. That's not what it says.
Speaker 3:
Brother Ron, you're a member of the More Science Temple of America. Right, question 87 in our Quran questionnaire. What is meant by the word black? Answer black. According to science, what he said the word means he didn't say is hey, hold on, hold on, hold on.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, all these years, man, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't even think of that.
Speaker 3:
See it, the word means is to indicate something, not to identify it as equal or synonymous with.
Speaker 2:
It doesn't say Black Court in.
Speaker 3:
Science is death. It says Black Court in Science means death. Don't believe me. What do you wear at a funeral traditionally? All right, so United States, it says, as used in this chapter. What does that establish people?
Speaker 3:
But that phrase, as used in this chapter, what does that establish Context? Context is king and, sadly, context is a moving target for most people, especially when you have cognitive dissonance, especially when you have confirmation bias. In other words, I already know what I want it to be, so I'm only going to look at evidence that supports what I want it to be, you see. So what does it mean, as used in this chapter? Let's look at it. Title 28 is what? Judiciary and judicial procedure? Stop right there. Title 28 deals with judiciary and judicial procedure. So if we're talking about the country, the United States, that means what? The United States, when it's dealing with judicial procedure, meaning it's in court. All right, let's continue. Part six particular proceedings, as in legal proceedings, court proceedings, chapter 176, even more specific, federal debt collection procedure, see. See what we're doing. We're narrowing down the context the United States, the nation, when it's involved in judicial procedure, specifically court procedure, more specifically, when it's collecting debts in court. Then it says A subsection A, subchapter A, definitions and general provisions. See that. Then it says now let's go back to the phrase as used in this chapter, meaning the chapter on federal debt collection procedure procedure. See.
Speaker 3:
So now we have context people, when the United States is involved in federal debt collection procedure in court, okay, the phrase United States could mean A a federal corporation, b an agency, department, commission, board or other entity of the United States, or. C an instrumentality of the United States. That makes sense to me. You get it. So Title 28, part 6, chapter 176, subsection A, section 3002, or Subchapter A refers to federal corporations formed or incorporated by the United States and that those federal corporations agencies, departments, commissions, boards or other entities or instrumentalities of the United States will appear under the name United States in judicial proceedings pertaining to federal debt collection Simple people. So Title 28, section 3002, does not say that the United States is a federal corporation. It says the name. The phrase United States could mean a federal corporation. With respect to what? Collecting debts in court. That's what it means.
Speaker 3:
Now here's a short list, a short list of corporations listed as United States by United States code Commodity credit corporation. Import export bank. Federal crop insurance corporation. Federal deposit insurance corporation. Federal financing bank. Federal prison industries financing corporation. Government national mortgage corporation. National railroad passenger corporation. Come on, you see where this is going right. National Railroad Passenger Corporation. Come on, you see where this is going right. See, simple, simple simple, simple people.
Speaker 1:
To me, it was simple. Well, I mean, when I first started learning about the sovereign citizen stuff, it wasn't. It was simple to me then. However, I'm gone right, so that was my reality. So right? No, however, I see fit, I'm gonna make this work. You know what I'm saying exactly. It's like. It's like, um, you know you want to do what you want to do to benefit yourself and at the end of the day, it kind of jammed me up really, you know, I mean, I was, I was able to, like, speak the jargon and and and, and, you know, do paper battles back and forth with the government and stuff like that, but it just, you know, what I realized is that and this is no disrespect to anyone, if you ever see it, you know, but for what I saw was that a lot of these brothers that were doing these paperwork things and the sovereign citizen stuff, they didn't live how I wanted to live.
Speaker 3:
Standard of life was very poor, wasn't it? I talked to the sister earlier today. Brother, it hurt my heart, it really did Like I don't know, this is from a can of paint. But she reached out to me asking questions. She goes well, you're a mall and so, and she just went, she just went. She goes listen, you know, I'm in bad, I'm in bad shape, I need some help. I'm like, okay, well, what's going on? She starts talking about oh well, you know, I did all my paperwork and I did all my filings and I did this and I did that, and I need to learn more about law because obviously I'm doing something wrong. And you know, right now I'm staying with the friends because I lost my, I lost my apartment and I lost my vehicle. And you see, you know, and she starts crying and I'm just like, oh, you know, cause, you know what, you know what you want to tell her. Oh, you went the wrong way.
Speaker 3:
You have the wrong idea and that's why you're suffering. You see what I'm saying. But you could hear, and she was 100% sincere, she thought it was the right thing and she had this big heart. She was like no, this is about uplifting fallen humanity. She kept saying that. So she's thinking uplifting fallen humanity equates to fighting the system and fighting the man. And you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:
I'm sorry to say that I look at those brothers as scammers because they be taking people's homes. I told them I got the deed and you know, shout out to the. I'm going to say you, dirty Moors, don't disrespect Moors. But you, dirty Moors, I hope your feds fall off your head. Y'all be online talking on Instagram, talking about you hollering at me. You send me $500, I'm going to send you this card, right, and it has like a million dollars on it. Why would you need my $500 to give me a million dollars?
Speaker 3:
on it. Why would you need my $500 to give me a million dollars? How about that? How about?
Speaker 2:
that On one hand, you're saying well, wait a minute.
Speaker 3:
House Joint Resolution 192 took the United States, or took, the Federal Reserve notes off the gold standard. So therefore the Federal Reserve notes are worthless and they're worth nothing.
Speaker 1:
But I need you to send me 500 of those so I can send you this paperwork yeah, freedom packages like I and make it make sense people well, let's, I want to talk about ucc and you know, uniform, uniform commercial codes, yes, and why is it so important to the the movement? Well, why was it so important to the movement? Well, why was it so important to the movement in the 2000s and is that really a loophole to take control of your straw man, that language, what is the straw man? Is that concept valid? Still, right, all caps on all your documentation. It being a dead is a corpus. I think that's what they say. No, it's a corpse, something like that.
Speaker 3:
Corpse. What you have is this people. Here we go Like, let's work that in reverse order. Let's talk about this corpus thing, right, let's work that in reverse order, let's talk about this corpus thing, right. What you got is people who have etymology, who learned the word etymology and misused the word etymology. They have an etymological dictionary and confuse the word etymology with definitions.
Speaker 1:
They're not the same, oh OK.
Speaker 3:
Explain that they're not the same, like, for instance, people will say the word black is a Germanic word from the word blech, which means bleach, which means white. So black means white. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't.
Speaker 2:
You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:
It doesn't mean that it's derived from a word that, in another language and another culture and another society, may have meant.
Speaker 1:
OK, context context context.
Speaker 3:
Etymology does not mean definition. Etymology shows you how a word's use developed over time. We don't use it that way today.
Speaker 2:
Stay on topic, reeve. I just want to say this If that sovereign citizen stuff worked, man, when they took that alien to jail for 135 years, he stood up in that courtroom and said he had no jurisdiction over me. They say, nigga, you're going to ADX for 135 years, just like that. Okay, so like that.
Speaker 3:
Okay, so right. So there's nationality and then there's territoriality. Territoriality is authority. In my home, the only rights you got are the rights I give you. Just because I say make yourself at home does not mean you can have your way with my wife or my children or even my refrigerator. Sit your hind parts down and act like you got some home training. You see what I'm saying?
Speaker 3:
Simple, again, it goes back to motive. What are we looking for? Are we looking to stand up as men and women and be upright and to be seen as equals in the eyes of society, or are we looking for a handout and privilege? See, that's what it really comes down to. At the end of the day, what are you really looking for? Are you looking for a payoff? See what I'm saying. You're looking for added privilege so you can still continue being what you already are, instead of improving yourself. See, that's the thing. That's the thing.
Speaker 3:
But what you said again, brother Ron, about the corpus thing, for instance, right, corpus, corporation, corpse, that's the logic that they use. Oh, that's a dead person. No, no, no, no, no. The Latin word corpus means body, whether it's this physical body, like they'll say. Oh, we don't deal with corporations. Hold on, let me show you something.
Speaker 3:
Prophet Jorah Lee taught us this in chapter one, holy Crown of the Moorish Signs, temple of America. Why did creative fate give the man spirit, man, a body of soul being a soul, to function on the plane of soul? Why did he create a fate, give to soul a body of flesh to function on the plane of things made manifest? Guess what those are Vehicles to use legalese, transmitting utilities. Guess what that means? You came to this planet with two corporations. That's what it means, which means you don't deal with a corporation.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. You want to get rid of your corporations, free your spirit from your soul and your body. Who's ready to do that? Right, see, so you know, it's just the proper use of words, the proper understanding of basic English. It's not always legalese, right, you know, it really isn't. It's not always that. The whole all caps thing is something that came from the European sovereign citizens, with something that they call symbolic, symbolic. What's the word? Symbolic, symbolicology or something along those terms, where they write a particular way and use colons here and dashes there, and that's legal.
Speaker 1:
And well, more you know. I want to think about this, though you know symboliography is the is the word. But go ahead brother, go ahead brother but as far as like, like a death certificate, right, yes, it's supposedly all caps right. And then then you have our license all caps, yeah. Or legal documents all caps. There's no validity to that at all?
Speaker 3:
Absolutely none. First and foremost, think about the types of documents you're talking about. Let's just start with that Birth certificate, death certificate, driver's license and a third Are these legal or are they administrative? See.
Speaker 1:
I mean tell us, because that got me like what Right?
Speaker 2:
I think both, because when you go to court after you're married or something, but it's what the courts accept.
Speaker 3:
But what is it in actuality? It's bureaucraticratic, it's bureaucratic people, it's administrative procedure record keeping you know, you know. Archiving it's administrative procedure, so there is no. Here's the thing. If the all caps thing had validity, there'd be a law stating it.
Speaker 2:
But how about when brothers say yo, your birth certificate is tied to a bank account? You could get the money.
Speaker 3:
Two things I'll say to that.
Speaker 2:
The CUSIP number.
Speaker 3:
But here's the thing Two things, two things. And I want to stay on, or I don't want to lose the point of the birth certificate thing, brother Ron, and also.
Speaker 2:
Birth certificate, marriage administrative and legal.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I don't want to lose those points. But here we go On the UCC. That's what it was. I don't want to lose that point. Here we go. All of those things don't refer to legalities or law per se. They refer to administrative procedure of a particular department Department of Social Security, department of Motor Vehicles, you see what I'm saying. Department of Vital Statistics Right, those are three separate agencies. They're not lawmaking bodies. And again, there is no law that says all caps means a corporation and not an individual.
Speaker 1:
Well, what if they? What if I? You know, I play the devil's advocate and go yes, well, it's not in the open. Maybe it's hidden somewhere.
Speaker 3:
Then it can't be used in a court, then it can't be used in a court of law. And it's easily easy, easy, reversible error of record on appeal. And not one person's done it. You see what I'm saying Not one person's done it, not one, right. And back to Brother Mikey, that's what I was going to say. Right, not one person has gotten any money from a birth certificate.
Speaker 3:
They'll say, well, because this follow me, follow me. And again, these are things that we thoroughly investigated. And when I say thoroughly investigated, we said, ok, let's take their position and let's try it. We've done it. So They'll say the birth certificate is a what? They'll say it is a bond. They'll say it's a bond. What's a bond, people? A bond is an obligation. But then they turn around and say, well, it's being traded on the private stock market. Right, you trade assets. You trade assets, you don't trade liabilities. How you convert a bond, which is a promise to pay, into a stock, how you do that. I'd like to know. And if there was a way to do it. It's not legal and there's a whole agency dedicated to these things. What's it called the SEC? Oh right, yeah, okay, you're going to jail.
Speaker 1:
Man, I believed that stuff back in the days, man.
Speaker 3:
So did I. That's why we went. Bro, listen people talking about filing ucc form one liens and then a financing statement attached to it so it can be monetized. Brother, I did it all. Not only I didn't mail my man, I went straight to albany well, they laughed at you.
Speaker 3:
They tell you, they tell you all right, they didn't laugh they didn't laugh but because they saw my sincerity, because I came in there like, yeah, I'm here to do it, do it. They saw my sincerity. You know what they said. They said we have a place that we file all of those when we get them. I said where they held up a trash can.
Speaker 2:
Now I did the birth certificate. What was it? Again, I went to the apostolate. Yeah, apostolate. I did the apostolate. Yeah, I have to steal. Yeah, I did the apostolate. Yeah, what a waste of time, bro. And I seen another brother down there doing it. And I'm not again I'm not being materialistic or you know criticizing right, I've done it. I got in my car. This brother said yo, my man, yo give me a ain't that.
Speaker 3:
Ain't that crazy, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2:
First thing I remember I called Ron. It was 2020. I called Ron. He's like yo, bro, stay away from that stuff. He's like yo, my man, yo get a slice of pizza, yo, yo. And I didn't even mind looking out for the brother, but I'm hearing all this stuff. I'm like you are one smart dude, but what are you? Doing.
Speaker 1:
I'll tell you this. I've been. I went to hold on. Should I say this on camera? I think I can share this. I went to the social security. Okay, we'll say it like this. I went to the social security office to correct my name and I got it corrected.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I did that. I did that, but here's the real question. Here's the real question. Did you really correct your name or did you just enact an unorthodox administrative procedure with a particular federal agency? That has nothing to do with identification, by the way, ah see.
Speaker 1:
But I'm going to tell you it made things a little complicated on the ways over the years. Just a little.
Speaker 3:
Now think about what you said, brother Ron. You're correct, right, and for what? You see what I'm saying. Are we trying to make things harder on ourselves? And if this movement and the tenets of the movement right are supposed to uplift fallen humanity, why would? And the Prophet, noble Jurali, said I'm going to help this government. That's what he said. He said we are part and partial of the government. That's what he said. So if that's the case, why should this be difficult? Why should we be fighting against? Why should we be butting our head against? See what I'm saying. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:
Bottom line is many of us started with the wrong idea and then never corrected ourselves. Never corrected ourselves. We still stick with the same wrong idea, wanting very badly for it to be right, when all of our experiences are telling us it's wrong. And instead of saying to ourselves or even admitting the possibility, maybe I got it wrong, what do we do? We project it and say, oh, that just shows you how corrupt the government is. The government is right. Yeah, now are there corrupt people in the government? Yes, are they taking? Look at the news? Of course, of course. But government is a machine people. Government is like a vehicle If it's not peopled, if it's not operated by human beings, it does nothing. So if I'm walking across the street and you bump me with your vehicle, I'm not kicking the car. I'm looking in the windshield. See, I'm looking in the windshield. I know the car didn't do it all by itself.
Speaker 1:
So the origin of these teachings come from the sovereign citizen movement, right? Yes, brother. Now it's not as prevalent in the movement as it was in the early 2000s, but it's still out there, or would you say it's still as prevalent, or or would you say it's dying out a little bit?
Speaker 3:
That's a good question. I would say that amongst our people, more specifically our people that identify as Moorish American, that hold on to these ideals, are a little more tactful, so they're less out in the open with it. So they're less out in the open with it, but if they were in your ideals, don't feel in their heart strong enough to openly discuss the matter Openly, openly.
Speaker 3:
See, I'm out. See, let me just say, right, you got people that are, because they've seen old videos of mine in the 90s, right at the Dempsey Center in Harlem, speaking favorably towards these things. But like I said, as man unfolds, as God unfolds. Man's God today, tomorrow, is now God right, god Right. I grew, I developed, but because I don't hold those thoughts anymore, those ideas anymore, they'll say oh well, he's a, he's an agent, he's a traitor, he's that. No, people like that operate in the shadows. I'm outside with this thing.
Speaker 3:
Tell them, I'm outside with the demonstration. So you want to come and sit down and have a conversation in the open, in the public. Let's have the conversation.
Speaker 2:
And I salute you for that Reef Accountability. You took accountability, it's accountability and you stand on it. But, as you mentioned, you know, a lot of people haven't proven any of these things. I know we joke around, but in reality, when I see these brothers online not only brothers who claim to be Moors, but even people that look like us they be so sincere about this, like holding online seminars and charging people and I'm like, but you know what, brother Mikey, that's not even sincerity, that's just a good hustle.
Speaker 3:
That's just good hustle ethic, because if they were sincere, they'd be taking care of the son of the late Corrin Gaines, who sincerely followed these things, and got murdered.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, she did yeah. Rest in peace.
Speaker 1:
I want to talk about that. Can we go over those next podcast we do on this? I want to go over those shootings and murders that happened because I didn't know how much was going on. Brother Arnil Bay he just sent me a bunch of different videos of these brothers getting in trouble, shootings, killed. I had no idea.
Speaker 2:
The elder that got murdered in Pennsylvania. He had prior encounters with the police, but he drove off on them. He showed his flag and everything and let him go. Here's the sad part about that.
Speaker 3:
Mikey, that same elder brother. That video went viral where he was holding the Morris flag outside his truck, cursing up a storm, talking extra spicy, extra reckless. There was a whole bunch of people online cheering him on, yeah, yeah. And then he gets killed. And you know what those same people are doing, talking about what he did wrong, what they think he did wrong. He should have said this and he should have said that.
Speaker 2:
I'm going to keep it real. I remember I visited a Morris Science Temple in Brooklyn and I remember a few brothers were disappointed with an elder saying that. You know, police encountered him one time and they say all that talk and he usually does. When the cops came he was like OK, ok, and they put the cuffs on. They're like none of that stuff came to fruition. He didn't demonstrate.
Speaker 3:
Right Again, and that's another thing too. A huge misconception by many in the Moorish movement is that nationality is a legal issue and it's not.
Speaker 2:
State citizen, national citizen.
Speaker 3:
It's a sociology issue. Nationality is a sociological term. So what? You could find the term nationality in a law dictionary. Nobody reads a dictionary to learn law. I wish it was that easy. You see what I'm saying. So. So nationality is a sociology term, it's not a legal term. So that's a huge misconception in the moorish movement. All of a sudden, nationality becomes synonymous with law. All the Moors, they know the law. You see what I'm saying. That's a bad misconception.
Speaker 1:
Very bad. What do you say about this? Being that our people, asiatics, we deal with a lot of legal issues, dealing with police and, as we will put it, the roman soldiers right? Yes, sir, absolutely. And so what would you say to moors who say the remedy would be if the temple was in, you know, active instead of passive, if you will, here it is and and we had representatives for our nation of people to kind of referee, if you will, or play the middle man in the situation we don't even have to play the middle man.
Speaker 3:
To play the middle man presumes that you're handling the real issue not at its source but after the fact, and the prophet said that more is active and not passive. So, and he gave us a solution, like he literally modeled the solution for us in the year 1928. Here's the solution. Right, I do a presentation on the utilization of the profits program to combat police brutality and in the presentation I show an interview that was on a talk show of some New York police officers, new York City police officers that were filing a class action suit against their employer, nypd, for racism. Right, and how they were instructed. They were kept away, they were kept out of promotions and things like that. And then they were aimed at their own communities Predatory policing, predatory policing. And listen close.
Speaker 3:
The host of the show said well, okay, this happens in poor quote, unquote Black and Latino neighborhoods. Why doesn't it happen downtown? Why does it happen in those neighborhoods? Do you know what the police officer said Quickly? They said oh, because the people in those neighborhoods don't vote collectively, they don't exercise their political power. See, if this happened downtown, the mayor would get a call. Hey, if I were you and guess what would happen? It would stop See. So in 1928, the prophet mobilized a vote block in the city of chicago for 3 000. He demonstrated the solution. The solution is legislative, not judicial. In other words, you catch it before the laws are made, not after the laws are made, and you're in the court as a victim of the law.
Speaker 2:
And that's what PAR was trying to do with the political education, because I noticed that some people don't even know what district they're in, what communities they lived in. They don't go to the community board meetings. A lot of us they don't know, they don't want to get involved. Even if you live in a tenement, a building, it could be like we have an attendance association People won't show up. They won't show up.
Speaker 3:
Now what you're talking, Mikey. That's called civics, but that's not law. Yeah, a lot of people in the movement think civics and law are synonymous and they're not. Civics deals with how the citizen engages his government, because in the American system the people rule by way of their elected representatives. So if you're not connected to the government and interfacing with the government, you are not on your job as a citizen. That's the sovereign power. See, that's the sovereign power see, that's the sovereign power.
Speaker 1:
So, being that being that, um, the temple is there, right? Yes, um, and you said that the prophet exhibited the. Basically, the prophet brought something to basically change what's going on in the uh, the uh, social, social, political and even financial um absolutely climate. What did he bring exactly? Are you saying he brought? Just to clarify, did he bring the circle seven and circle seven? Did he bring the one-on-ones? Did he bring the one on ones? Did he bring the customs, the religion and all of these things to help shape our character and change us?
Speaker 3:
Here we go Core American values. What makes Americans American? I'm talking about United States citizens. What, what? What does it? They answer up to a social standard. They answer up to a social standard.
Speaker 3:
Okay, what is that social standard? That social standard is you believe that one nation can be formed made up of people of different national backgrounds. That's basic civics 101. Even the Native American who becomes an American citizen has the flag of their birth, which is the American flag, and the flag of their descent nature, the nation that they were a part of prior. See that Okay.
Speaker 3:
Okay, when you don't know what your descent nature is, when you are not familiar with the culture and the mindset of your forefathers and those that came before you, can you answer up to the social standard? No, you can't. You see what I'm saying? You can't answer up. So all people know of you is what, what your forefathers were absent, that which is what Slaves Subhuman. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:
And why is that important as a social standard? Because politics trumps the law and sociology trumps politics. Politics trumps the law. Why? Because it's at the political level that determines the lawmakers and what laws are made. Sociology trumps politics. Why? Because the people are already socially stigmatized before they come together to make the laws. You got to address the problem at the root, and the root is social. So what did our prophet bring us? Nationality, divine creed. Nationality is not just national identity, it is national identity, but it's also the quality. Okay, you knew your forefathers were Moors, descendants of Moroccans born in America. Sure, but how did they live? How did they think? What did they eat? Okay, see, now we're talking cultural heritage, right? So he brings nationality and divine creed. Why divine creed? Because all culture grows out of a nation's religious creed.
Speaker 1:
Right Now, before you go, more I want to talk about on the next one. The next one, wednesday, is. Usually we talk about more issues and such right. I want we talk about moorish, moorish, uh issues and such right. I want to talk about more things regarding, um, uh, these, you know, the sovereign citizen stuff, as well as questions like what makes the moroccan flag the moorish.
Speaker 3:
Absolutely.
Speaker 1:
I want to build it on that.
Speaker 2:
That's dope. That's a good one.
Speaker 1:
Because I've heard no one has been able to explain this at all since I've been here.
Speaker 2:
I call it a pentagram.
Speaker 3:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Solomon's Seal right. I call it a pentagram.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, let's do that, let let's do that, let's definitely explain that absolutely all right, we sign in office eight o'clock.
Speaker 1:
Brother Sharif has to go. Sharif appreciate you, brother, absolutely likewise on tomorrow for the martial arts show. Next week, wednesday, we have Sharif on next Next week, tuesday, the hip-hop music show.
