Can you imagine how ancient African spiritual practices have seamlessly blended with modern life in Brooklyn? Join us for a captivating conversation with Ayaba, as she shares her profound journey into the Lucumi tradition. Under the esteemed guidance of Ayaba unveils the rich history and cultural evolution of Lucumi from West Africa to the Caribbean, shedding light on core practices like honoring the Orishas and ancestors. She also demystifies the often-confused distinctions between Lucumi and Santeria, emphasizing that Lucumi remains deeply rooted in its African origins without adopting Christian elements.
What does it mean to balance masculine and feminine energies within spiritual traditions? Ayaba dives into her experiences working with powerful Orishas like Oya, the fierce warrior deity of winds and storms, and Shango, who represents a complementary force. Through vivid examples, she elucidates how these energies manifest in nature and why maintaining this balance is essential for spiritual harmony. This segment offers a nuanced perspective on the interconnectedness of divine energies and their impact on practitioners' lives.
Ever wondered about the transformative power of spiritual initiations? Ayaba explains the importance of rituals like receiving Alekis and engaging with Orishas such as Elegba, Ogun, and Yemaya. We discuss how these initiations contribute to personal growth and honor one's ancestral lineage. Ayaba addresses common misconceptions about Lucumi, countering negative stereotypes with compelling stories that highlight the practice's positive impact. Tune in to gain a comprehensive understanding of Lucumi traditions, the significance of spiritual connections, and the power of rituals in fostering personal and communal harmony.
Can you imagine how ancient African spiritual practices have seamlessly blended with modern life in Brooklyn? Join us for a captivating conversation with Ayaba, as she shares her profound journey into the Lucumi tradition. Under the esteemed guidance of Ayaba unveils the rich history and cultural evolution of Lucumi from West Africa to the Caribbean, shedding light on core practices like honoring the Orishas and ancestors. She also demystifies the often-confused distinctions between Lucumi and Santeria, emphasizing that Lucumi remains deeply rooted in its African origins without adopting Christian elements.
What does it mean to balance masculine and feminine energies within spiritual traditions? Ayaba dives into her experiences working with powerful Orishas like Oya, the fierce warrior deity of winds and storms, and Shango, who represents a complementary force. Through vivid examples, she elucidates how these energies manifest in nature and why maintaining this balance is essential for spiritual harmony. This segment offers a nuanced perspective on the interconnectedness of divine energies and their impact on practitioners' lives.
Ever wondered about the transformative power of spiritual initiations? Ayaba explains the importance of rituals like receiving Alekis and engaging with Orishas such as Elegba, Ogun, and Yemaya. We discuss how these initiations contribute to personal growth and honor one's ancestral lineage. Ayaba addresses common misconceptions about Lucumi, countering negative stereotypes with compelling stories that highlight the practice's positive impact. Tune in to gain a comprehensive understanding of Lucumi traditions, the significance of spiritual connections, and the power of rituals in fostering personal and communal harmony.
what's going on, everybody? It's ron brown lmt, the people's fitness professional, alongside my co-host mikey fever emc you got jokes and we have uh ayaba in the building today to talk about santeria and uh, it's Locami right.
Speaker 3:
Locumi.
Speaker 2:
Locumi, locumi.
Speaker 1:
Locumi. Locumi is uh, can we say where you're from or no?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I'm Puerto Rican and Cuban um and I was initiated in um a Locumi house out of Bed-Stuy, a famous um um Locumi house out of Bed Stye under Mama Stephanie Weaver, aka the house of Ile Asche. So it's a very famous house that started in, I believe, the 60s. Actually, some of its original founders were here like in the 50s, and so the house is like huge. Now. People are all over the world actually and we have some really well-known people who are, you know, in the entertainment, medical fields, education field. So you know, pretty much all the members are like thriving right now.
Speaker 1:
Wow Okay.
Speaker 3:
That's interesting. It's all thanks to the spirits.
Speaker 1:
All praise the dude to okay, now I want to go into the questions. Mike, I have my own questions. However, we have questions set. So what's the origin of Lukumi?
Speaker 3:
It's out of West Africa and so it made its way to the Caribbean and it took on, I guess, slightly different faces on each one of the islands. And so out of Cuba it's Lukumi. And so you know, the main tenants of the tradition are the Orishas, honoring the Orishas and honoring Egun, the ancestors, the muertos, which are the dead, the ancestral dead. It varies slightly from Santeria in that Santeria is cloaked. The African spirits are cloaked in Christian, they're cloaked behind the Christian saints.
Speaker 2:
They do the slavery. Yes, and so you know out of fear of being found out.
Speaker 3:
You know, the people were able to practice behind closed doors to a certain extent, and so, but you know, in my line of Lukumi, in my ultra house, we don't cover up any of the Orishas with saints. It. I mean, the saints are who they are, I mean the orishas are who they are. So that would be a legba, that would be ogun, that would be ochosi, that'll be shango, that'll be oh yeah, that'll be oh shun, that'll be yeah, my, yeah. You know, and the list goes on down to the core of it before.
Speaker 3:
Down to the core.
Speaker 1:
I have a question about it. So these, these spirits, if you will, entities, are they governed by particular planets? You know what's the concept behind these spirits?
Speaker 3:
I mean, if you want to like, liken it to astrology I'm sure some people have but, like you know, for many of the Lukumi practitioners, like, they are like masculine and feminine aspects of the divine.
Speaker 3:
Okay, that divine, okay, that divine being, we call uh, olofio lurumari, um, and so they're. They're um, divine, they're aspects of the divine that are found in nature, both masculine and feminine um aspects. And so this is how we can connect to the divine, for by, like, going to the river to give honor to the feminine aspect of the divine named Oshun, we go to the ocean to give respect to the feminine aspect of the ocean, at least the top of the ocean, the surface of the ocean, which is Yamaya, and then there's Olokun, which is in the depths of the ocean, and then there's Oya, the wind, the lightning, the storms, and Shango, the lightning, the storms, you know, thunder Ogun, who governs Ogun, and Olegbon Ochosi, who are the warriors found in the woods, you know. And so we go to these different aspects and we connect with the divine through, you know, prayers, through songs and things of that nature, through offerings.
Speaker 1:
OK, so so now see, that was a great explanation, because so now I have a better understanding of what's referred to as spirit. So it's not necessarily a floating ghost energy kind of thing. It's more like. It's more of, like you know, the energy within the sea, the energy within the, just the energies around us in general, the trees, the yeah okay elements.
Speaker 3:
Like you know, the divine has been everything and it's just. You know, it's just how people and the practitioners connect to the divine and so, you know, your prayers get heard regardless. You know what I'm saying, but you know it's definitely, it's a relationship that has to be. You know you have to build on this relationship. You know you have to build on this relationship. Sorry, hold on just a second. I don't know how my TV magically turned on.
Speaker 2:
So I guess the spirits are in the house right now. I wanted to double back what she said earlier. Can you hear me? Yeah, yeah, I want to double back what she said earlier with the whole synchronism with the Catholic saints and voodoo. Voodoo is practice on the Island is universal, but regional, based upon the regions. Some people use the Catholic saints, some don't use the Catholic saints. They use the sigils as what we call the Veves Catholic saints. So that's what is leukemia is kind of that. It's kind of. Is it like that?
Speaker 3:
No, we use the finmas, so the and so I'm also initiated as a ya ya, ya ye. However, you want to call it impalo, and so impalo. We use the finmas to, you know, connect with the pal palo uh energies yeah, so that's so.
Speaker 2:
That's when we mentioned the whole leukemia practice. I'm like, yeah, some people don't use the catholic saints, they just go straight directly into into the sigils. And when you, when you said to ron's, answering to ron's question about dealing with the spirits, right, it's mostly just with the four elements, that's all it is using everything within the universe. Yeah, I mean it's, it's mostly just the four elements, that's all it is.
Speaker 3:
You're using everything within the universe yeah, I mean it's, it's, I mean it's so much, it's so much bigger than that, but, like, if that's how people can visualize it. Yeah, you know, and so you know, always people have to like, um, you know it helps for people to kind of understand these humongous concepts by like placing them in a particular like bucket or whatever, and so I don't like to like minimize the energies, but it's just like organizing these vast concepts you know what I'm saying and trying to understand what they are and how to connect to them. I've been a priestess for 11 years now, but I've been practicing since 2000. And you know, even as an Alejo, which is someone that has not been initiated to the highest extent, which is someone that you know has not been initiated to the highest extent, you know my Ocha house, the spiritual house that I was in, the Orisha house that I was in, was an Ocha house of teaching, and so they wanted us to be self-sufficient. They wanted, they were training us to, you know, to be able to, you know, one day have our own Ocha houses, our own what we call Iles Um, and so you know there's so many aspects to it because we all come from, you know, different, uh, lineages. So it's like, yes, we have. We, you know we acknowledge um and honor the Orishas, we honor the ancestors, but you know, the ancestors could be from Haiti, the ancestors could be from you know, different parts of West Africa. They could be from, you know, trinidad, wherever they are, and so you know, our practice in honoring the ancestors and different offerings may vary slightly. So, like in Jamaica, they call the tradition that's similar to this, they call it Kumana.
Speaker 3:
People always think it's Obia, which you know has a bad rap because it's, you know it always has to do with, like witchcraft and this, this and that. But, like before, obia was Obia. Obia was a place where you know people would get healing, like you know they had to. A place where you know people would get healing, like you know they had to protect their crops. You know they wanted to have children. If they wanted to, you know, bring money into the household, and so it wasn't always someone, you know, throwing something at someone. It wasn't, like brujeria, witchcraft. It's just gotten a bad rap because it got in the hands of people who abused power.
Speaker 2:
Exactly, it's based on the attention. It's based on the intentions okay, I have a question.
Speaker 1:
I have a question now. Um, you don't want to put it, put this, the? Um. I want to say spirits, for lack of better term. You don't want to put the spirit, so to speak, in a box, right, but let's. I want to say spirits, for lack of better term. You don't want to put the spirit, so to speak, in a box, right, but let's. I want to give more context to what it is actually, right. So the divine, right. The divine has many aspects of itself, as you mentioned, right, but the main is the polarity between feminine and masculine energies.
Speaker 3:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Now, in the seas, the waters, the, the, the, just just the main elements, right, the four to five elements, one, one of the elements being ether right. So this divine is within these five, four or five elements and broken down into bits, right, and uh, finer bits bits, right and, uh, finer bits. So I don't know, like, if you, you know um, can speak on dimensions and things of that nature, if, uh, if possible, I don't know if you know anything about that.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I mean that I can't. I can't speak fluently on that. Um, you know there's so many dimensions. When you go into that realm, you know as're here on the earthly plane, but then there's a spiritual plane and then there's so many dimensions within that spiritual plane. That's a really deep and rich process of study. You know what I'm saying and I can't necessarily go there, but you know my practice and what I do. You know I do. You know I read people. I read people privately, but I also work at Namaste Bookstore in the city, in Union Square.
Speaker 3:
So you know I connect with spirit through the cards, through, you know, through them talking to me, because I am a spiritualist, I am a passing medium and so you know I haven't begun to really go into that realm of multiple dimensions, I mean because it's just, it's just enough to handle the energy as it is, just being.
Speaker 3:
You know I'm a priestess, I'm a daughter of Oya, which there's not many people out here who are initiated to.
Speaker 3:
Oya, which is the feminine, fierce aspect of nature that rules over the winds and the storms, and you know as a female warrior, depicted as a female warrior who rules over the winds and the storms, and you know as the female warriors, depicted as a female warrior who rules over the marketplace, who rules over the dead, who receives the dead into the cemetery, and so, you know, just managing that energy and being initiated to that energy, um, and being connected to the spirit realm, and that way is a lot.
Speaker 3:
So, uh, I I haven't gotten to that point where I'm going to venture into the, the next dimensions. I mean, um, it's, it's a process. Like you know, in my tradition I'm considered a young priest, even though I have over 10 years of Ocha, you know, 10 years of initiation and a house that was a serious teaching house, literally blood, sweat and tears to learn what I learned so that I could be able to help other people. But, yeah, like it's just, it's amazing how spirit, how you're able to connect with spirit through meditation and I incorporate Hinduism as well the mantras, meditation to unlock other aspects of my.
Speaker 3:
Yes.
Speaker 1:
Right so of course. Right. So you know, I would say this is just me, this is just my hypothesis. I'm going to say that the Orishas and the names of the spirits within the culture would kind of guide you and lead you to what's considered the dimensions themselves, right?
Speaker 3:
Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure, like they all have, you know, fierce aspects and there's so many layers to it. You know, we have, just like all the other traditions have, a spiritual book. We have the book of Odoo, and so there's over 200 Odoo that speak about all of these masculine and feminine spirits. You know these are rishas and stories about them, when some of them were living, you know, when they were alive on this planet, and some others, and how they were, like, deified, and so how the world was created, how humans were created, and so you know these, the stories are rich and I really, you know, I just don't like it when people refer to these stories as like folklore, folklore or myths. You know what I'm saying, like, because the practitioners to the practitioners this is very real, you know, they really, you know, live these lives and you know the lessons that they learned were extensive. So, um, you know, the tradition is so rich and there's always a, there's always going to be a balance between the masculine and the feminine aspects within the tradition.
Speaker 2:
Of course, of course.
Speaker 1:
So let's give some examples of what that looks like. Right? So like a balance of the masculine and feminine aspects. Can you give us an example?
Speaker 3:
I mean sure, Like I'm initiated to Oya and her counterpart is Shango. Her masculine counterpart is Shango, and so Shango is the king. He's the king of Oyo. You know, he's a master strategist. He has so many aspects to him and he's also fierce. He's a very hot energy. He has so many aspects to him and he's also fierce. He's a very hot energy. I don't know. In Haitian voodoo they call it what the Rada?
Speaker 2:
Oh no, petro Petro is a hot.
Speaker 3:
Petro. He's like those energies are very hot, they're hot energy. So Oya is hot, shango is hot. They're represented by red. Shango is hot, they're represented by red, shango is red and white. Oya is red, but she's got nine different colors, but red is like, it's like the pulse, um, the pulse of of who they are. You know they're about living and and like the life force. You know they're about fierceness, ferocity. You know, yeah, just being vibrant. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:
What I wanted to add to what Ayaba is saying is, within the African science, spiritual practices, every spirit, like in voodoo, they call it escorts, like they're always polarities. It's never alone.
Speaker 3:
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:
You got to have the feminine aspect and the masculine aspect and it's never just one alone, like when it, when it, when it breaks down from the all being god right, and it comes down to polarities. Each has their attributes, but it's always balance out the universe, what they represent.
Speaker 3:
So yeah, there's like a coolness, like, so, like there's a coolness, there's a cool. There's a hot and there's a cool, there's the. So, like, there's a coolness, there's a cool, there's a hot and there's a cool. There's the heat and then there's the cool. So Obatala Yemaya, oshun, yemaya and Oshun are the water energies, the maker of everyone's head, before they, you know, came down to this earth, before they were born. And then there's, you know, you have Ogun, alegba, ochoci, who are the hunters, and so you know those energies, they can be hot and they can be cool. You want to keep them nice and cool and calm and collected, until you have to go to war, you know, with someone, and that's not something you want to do, but if you got to do it, you got to do it.
Speaker 3:
Um, and so you know, there there is, like this, this hot, cold, this coolness, and like, in my tradition, you know, reading the energies, reading the old do and how they fall, you know, and I'm I'm still learning. I don't claim to know everything, um, certainly not. But, like you know, there's a certain heat to the letters, the, the numbers, the energies that come out when someone is getting a reading with the shells, the caracoles, the dilagun. Okay, and so you know, when there's a spiritual heat there, that is not really good. You want to keep the energies cool.
Speaker 2:
All right, so let's see. So you already answered one of the questions I'm going to ask. I was going to ask what is the significance of initiations in Hokimi.
Speaker 3:
I mean, it's really for, like you know, personal development. It's also carrying on. You know what your ancestral line, the energy that you walk with, like honoring your ancestors, you having people that came before you that practiced in the tradition or practiced in something that was like it, and so, yeah, you may get initiated as a santero, a santero, a santero, but, you know, maybe your ancestral line was out of, you know Haiti, and so you know, if you want to get initiated as a mambo or what's the mambo, or hogan, you can get initiated in that as well. You know, as long as there are no, like, taboos or conflicts, you know, and as long as the spirits are appeased. You know what I'm saying. But, um, it's really about, you know, personal growth and development and elevation, um, so that you can fulfill your destiny in the most positive, successful way possible. You know, with the best character, iwapele. You know, with the best character iwapeli, you know that you can possibly, you know, demonstrate on on this planet brother uh terrain.
Speaker 1:
What's up awareness daily in the building? Of course that's the brother. He's always, you know, supporting the, supporting the podcast. That's peace. We also have a cult college terrain Hicks in the building.
Speaker 2:
Peace, family, alafia, alafia, santo. That's one of their sayings. You see, it's on this Kabbalah talk. I rocks with that. It's how we praise God and we go down to the de, to the deities, and it's similar to the kabbalistic tree where we go from the top and, soft as they pull it, nothingness we can't tell, we just keep, we just keep on ascending. Yeah, ten years. The sephirot represents the aspect of what each set represents. On both sides. You got the pillar of mercy and severity in between. You got my cool, which you know. That's the path you walk straight. That's another.
Speaker 3:
That's a whole, nother topic that's deep and look like there's so many amazing people out here who are like the historians to these different traditions. Like baba john mason, like he is like the premier authority, um, my tradition anyway in Lukumi. And then there's a brother, oba Oba de Dayo, and so you know, oba, he's a child of Shango and he's like amazing out of Bed-Stuy Brooklyn as well. So, like, these are definitely people who can really speak to the history, the rich history of the traditions. But, yeah, like I mean you know, it's great that you know, you know so much about like you know am I saying it right? Voodoo, voodoo.
Speaker 2:
Voodoo? Yeah, I don't want to say voodoo, but like voodoo. No, voodoo, yeah, Voodoon.
Speaker 3:
That's.
Speaker 2:
Benin. Voodoon is Benin, but voodoo is Creole.
Speaker 3:
Exactly.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's dope. You got a question, ron.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. So I want to kind of like because you know I'm a science head right, so you know I'm a science head right, so you know I try to break down the finer details of things to try to, you know, give people a clear picture of what things truly are.
Speaker 2:
Come to the event. Brother, you got to come to a ceremony, man, yeah, attend a ceremony to see things I have, I have, that's what I'm saying Like I've seen things, I've been to ceremonies before and things like that.
Speaker 1:
But you know, being that I'm coming from more of a scientific aspect, scientific mindset. I like to break things down to the finer details of things. So, like we were talking about spirits, right? How many spirits are there? I mean, there are tons of, like a lot of spirits, right, there's like hundreds of spirits, but what are the main spirits, right? Shango we spoke about Okay, so instead of spirits, orishas.
Speaker 3:
We call them the fundamental. So usually when people get initiated well, you know, when you enter into the tradition and you've received your Alekis or AKA, your collares, your beads, and you've gone through that initial process, you know, people generally receive a legba, ogun and ochosi. Okay, those are the orishas that you receive in the beginning and that is just at the entry level. Okay, now let me ask you this, so those, those are the warriors, the guerreros and those are all uh masculine masculine, yes, okay.
Speaker 3:
And so then, from there, you know, through your readings, you know you go to get the, the readings with the shells, the caracoles, the de. Then you know you may have to get olokun, which olokun you know, as found at the depths of the ocean and also rules over emotions, and you know the depth of your soul, and so you may have to receive olokun, which is, you know, a water energy, a water orisha, and so then you may get a reading and you may have to receive the himaguas, the ibejis, okay, the twins, okay. And so you know, and that's for stability, that's for money, wealth, good luck and things of that nature. So you know, people could just receive the warriors and then move to become initiated as the, the high priestess, as a santero or santera, and then you receive your fundamental, and so your fundamental, like you said, is shango, yes, it's um, oh yeah not, oh yeah not. And not everyone receives.
Speaker 1:
Oh yeah, you get, yeah, my yeah, oh shun, oh batala all right so so, as far as levels are concerned, the first level that you get the three masculine, the three masculine um uh spirits, if you will right, for lack of better term and then after that, there's a second level, before getting to become a santero yes, santero or santera, and not everyone you know has that destiny to become a santero or santera.
Speaker 3:
You know what I'm saying. You could just stop it. Just. You know having your leckies being a leo, you know going to. You know different events, working different events to the capacity in which you are able to, which you are permitted, um, and you, some people may never ascend to become a priest. You know a priest, and so it just depends. But some people have to be, you know, they have to get initiated at the highest level, sometimes to save their life, sometimes, you know, for from sickness, from to be saved from the streets. You know what I'm saying? There's so many different reasons why someone would need to be initiated at the highest level to extend their life. Okay, and so not everyone. You know everyone's destiny, everyone's path is different.
Speaker 1:
Now I don't know if you know anything about a guy by the name of Joe Dispenza. Joe Dispenza talks about, you know, just shedding your old self to then rise up into a new self, to basically draw in better energy to, to yourself, right? So I don't know if you guys deal with the same concept of, of of energy work, if you will same concept of, of, of um, energy work, if you will.
Speaker 3:
It is a renewal when, every time, at every level, there's a renewal. So when you have your initial um, your first um initiations, you know, to receive your uh, like Asia Goyares and your warriors, there is uh, you know you're. There's somewhat of a renewal there. You know I can't give up the details, but then when you get initiated at the highest level, as a santero or santera, a priest, it is a rebirth, it's a renewal, and so there's certain things that happen.
Speaker 3:
Then, in my line, we have to wear white for a year and seven days. You know what I'm saying. And you know, for the first three months, you know we're not able to watch TV. We're not able to, you know, um, do things that are too stimulating. We're supposed to, you know, really be in in deep meditation and um, uh, you know introspection through that time. You know we're not supposed to be hanging out. For the women there's no makeup. We can't wear makeup, you know. You know we have to stay in white.
Speaker 3:
You know, for that year and seven days, and we can't, no one can touch us. You know what I'm saying, with the exception of our children, and you know the person that you know our lover or husband or wife or whatever and it's really about living like super, super, super clean, as best as you can for that year and seven days to be your best self. But then you come out of that year, you come out of your initiation year and you're back in the world per se and, like it's like, you either become yeah, you should become evolved, or you can become even worse than who you were. So if you were wicked and nasty, you could become even more wicked. And it doesn't have anything to do with the orisha, it has to do with egos and the head.
Speaker 2:
I'd like to say that too.
Speaker 1:
stripping of the ego yeah, a lot of these people practice for the year, but then people's heads get real gassed up and then that becomes a mess yeah, well, what I'm, what I'm trying to do, is bridge the gap between, uh, western teachings and eastern teachings, meaning science, in what you want to call spiritualism, quote unquote bridging the gap there and the gap in between, uh, the schools of thought, ie, five percent nation and a lot more science, etc. There's a gap between the two, but they talk about the same thing essentially and they come together. They can come if, if, if you could connect the dots between the teachings, you could, like I could see the dots to connect. So, yeah, go ahead, mike.
Speaker 2:
I'll say it's due to language and perspective, based on each individual's intentions and understanding. You understand Because you will get it. You see, you connect, you make the connection of the dots, but some are so rigid and are stuck in a zealot and a mode of being zealots they don't want to accept anything else. You know because from what she said, from her experience, I went through that with the whole being introduced to voodoo. Yes, I've seen it growing up, but I used to be like nah, this and that, until I hit age 21 and I started seeing it more happening to me, certain things happening to me. I couldn't explain dreams and events. I had to go out there and go look for it, look for the answers, and there's no way to measure it right like there's no way, like I'm a science teacher.
Speaker 3:
I teach high school chemistry and biology, so I mean, if anyone like I in the classroom, I have to come with a scientific perspective. But I'm also Caribbean, so and I've had experiences that many of my students have had, experiences that they can't explain. So that's really it's tough. I mean, you can measure things as best as you can, but you'll never measure everything.
Speaker 1:
Okay. So because, all right, as far as, like science and the Western perspective of science, measurement, empirical evidence, et cetera, et cetera they have a system in which they find what they consider the facts or the truth. Right Now, what I'm saying is, in other schools of thought they have their system right N-O-Y Nation of Gods and Earths, blah, blah, blah and all. Between that school of thought, Vodun, and Western science there's a, there's a gap, but there's a bridge between those that we have. That we can find, that we can figure out, but it just takes a person who's well versed in all the sciences but it just takes a person who's well-versed in all the sciences.
Speaker 2:
I think the first step of the bridge ever happened in between all you know Western, the Western hemisphere science and other practices is stripping of the ego, cause you got to go to a place of nothingness. You got to strip yourself. You realize that it sounds harsh, but that you're nothing in this universe. I just happen to be here. Like you know, my life is a gift.
Speaker 3:
And that's why people do the shrooms, that's why they do ayahuasca, it's like, because it strips them down to nothingness, where they have no like power, no control. So the ego is not in effect at that point that they're tripping yeah, well, what do you consider the ego?
Speaker 2:
hmm, um a false arrogance. A person that thinks they're above. There's a difference between being confident yeah a big difference between being confident and arrogant, um pompous, putting down others and seeing yourself as bigger than life. Like my life matters above all you. You're nothing in my world okay, so what about?
Speaker 1:
what about you, ayaba? How do you see the ego?
Speaker 3:
yeah, I mean, I just think that you know, when people acquire a certain status, you know, like you said, it's like you feel like you're above everyone and everything and sometimes, you know, unfortunately, you know, unfortunately, you know people get initiated in these different traditions, as a Mambo, hugon, santera, whatever you know, apalero, whatever it is, they get initiated in and they think that they can, you know, be throwing stuff at people, be nasty to people, and that's not what the traditions are about. It's about elevation, it's about helping you to make it in this world, in this earthly existence, which can sometimes be hell on earth. You know what I'm saying. You're dealing with people who are walking, but they're possessed with demons and dark spirits and it can be a battle. And you know you not only have to deal. You don't only have to battle with people in the physical plane. You got to battle with people with things, entities, in the spiritual plane.
Speaker 2:
The spiritual plane as well.
Speaker 1:
You know what I'm saying. Let me ask you about that. So the spiritual plane, demons, et cetera. Is there any way, if you can, if you can't, it's cool. Is there any way you can show and prove that demons and these different spirits exist?
Speaker 3:
Look, I mean, I don't know about anyone. I was raised in the Catholic Church downtown Brooklyn, st James Basilica. The nuns were my mothers, the priests were, you know, like fathers to me. You know what I'm saying. And so I have witnessed things throughout my life. I've seen spirits. I've seen, you know, I've actually felt dark energies attack me, lift me up out of the bed you know what I'm saying and no one was around to see it, but I know what happened and that's in part what led me to the tradition, you know.
Speaker 3:
And then I've sat in spiritual meetings and spiritual masses and I've seen people become mounted with dark spirits. Seeing people become mounted with dark spirits, you know what I'm saying. And like speaking and not necessarily speaking in different languages, but, like you know, there's, there's a darkness there. You can tell when there's a spirit of the light and when there's a spirit of the dark and you can just feel it. You know what I'm saying. The dark spirits, they don't like light, they don't like to be revealed and uncovered. You know've given readings to people where I started coughing, choking this, this and that, because the spirit did not want me to reveal who they were and what they were doing. They did not like the fact that I was uncovering and exposing their darkness to the person that came to me to get help.
Speaker 1:
Okay, now, one thing I am is I'm a skeptic about everything. However, I don't disregard what people experience and things of that nature. I haven't experienced anything of the sort. Um, however, I've experienced some things, though, but uh, as far as, like, I've experienced like supernatural things between human the human okay yeah, but uh, um, um, I haven't experienced anything where you know, like how you experience.
Speaker 3:
Well, I mean people get like. You know people's exposure when you drink. You know they always call the alcohol the spirit. So you know drinking can lower your vibration, can lower your vibration and it can leave you open and susceptible to being mounted with dark spirits that are roaming the planet, roaming the earth, with dark spirits that people are throwing at you, you know, trying to sabotage and affect your spiritual. You know outcomes and so you know you'll see that you'll see like for, out of nowhere, you know, your loved one will start attacking you or, so you know, will start acting funny, or you know, you know you'll have problems sleeping. You're tossing and turning. Fights will happen out of nowhere. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:
There's cracks there's leaks all this phenomena, like this negative phenomena, this antagonistic phenomena that starts happening and you can, a spirit can attack you through mounting someone and moving through that person to attack you and seduce you. For that matter, you know what I'm saying. If you're trying to be on the up and up, you're married, you're trying to be faithful to your wife or to your special person, you know there's people who get mounted. These spirits will come and try and seduce you and break you and bring you down to the depths of of a hell, like experience, and, like you know, destroy your relationship, destroy, you know, the plan and the goodness that you have set out for you. So it's this.
Speaker 2:
it's real, it's real and there are other forms of quote, unquote, so-called witchcraft, and spiritual, super, supernatural things like the power of words, the vibration of each word. Yes, you could change a person's mindset, like you can attend a church service and you'll be moved by the music, the organ being played, how the preacher is speaking. Or you go to African practice. Or, for instance, as they say within the 5% Nation, the Nation of Islam, a brother can know his lesson so well and he's just moving through it. Not only is he quoting it, but he's delivering his perspective and how he's speaking, his tone, the pitch of his voice, the tone. It's a lot of ways you can move somebody.
Speaker 3:
And speaking in tongues. What is that? People oh, that's speaking in tongues. They're getting munked out, mounted by the spirit. You know what I'm saying. But it is different from when people get possessed by the Orisha or the Loa. You know what I'm saying. That's dark and that's that's bad. But, like when people start speaking in tongues in the church, that's good and that's okay. You know what I'm saying. So it's like there's so many I don't know Like, I guess it's like it's how the traditions are viewed. You know what I'm saying. In African traditions, african-based traditions, a lot of times get a bad rap, but when people are in the church catching the Holy Ghost and talking in tongues, they're mounted with the spirit.
Speaker 2:
That came from indoctrination and colonialization.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, well, that's what I don't understand, because you know, like, even like, when you get baptized, get baptized right, that's like a ritual itself, it's a ritual, yeah, using the element of water, water and air. The words is air yeah, uh, communion, you know the piece of bread, you know with the so-called blood you know what's his grave juice?
Speaker 2:
yeah, I run the world is a cricket juice man. I, you know, I went back for a second cup right when I was. I used to go back for a second cup Like let me get more of Jesus blood real quick.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I mean, those are all rituals and it's like and where did these things come from? You know what I'm saying? Like, where were they based out of where?
Speaker 1:
Of course, Africa.
Speaker 3:
Thank you, yeah, yeah, I'm saying like, where were they?
Speaker 2:
based out of where, of course, africa.
Speaker 3:
Thank you, yeah, yeah and it's interesting because you know, I know people who have taken pictures of people, of people that do not have melanin, who go get initiated any fire in west africa, in nigeria, wherever they are. They get initiated because they want that power and they bring it back to their political parties, to their skulls and bones, to all these little secret societies, and you know they realize they recognize the power in this.
Speaker 2:
I hear you. I hear you, but you know what's what she's saying. Is she's she's on point with that because the sister's on point with her readings. You know what's what she's saying is she's she's on point with that Cause the sister is on point with her readings. You know, I I experienced one of her readings, man, she was on point.
Speaker 1:
Oh really.
Speaker 2:
On point bro.
Speaker 1:
Right now.
Speaker 2:
On point.
Speaker 1:
No, you can't. You can't get a reading.
Speaker 3:
You got to do that in private right.
Speaker 1:
Oh, my bad yeah.
Speaker 3:
Well, you can come see me. I'm at 4 west 14th street and namaste bookshop. I'm there tuesdays and fridays from 4 to 8. Um, definitely come through to see me, and then I also do private readings, um via video. I don't need you to be present. I call forth your, your ancestors, your spiritual court, your spiritual entourage, and they tell the whole story.
Speaker 1:
Get out, man, you ain't got to be there. I want to experience it. You know. I want to see you know what this is, what this is about. Now I want to go back into I keep mispronouncing this, sorry Lukumi Lukumi, yeah yeah, lukumi Lukumi. I've never heard of this. However, I've heard of the teachings. I've never heard the name Lukumi, though. Now, where did the name Lukumi come from? Is it African?
Speaker 3:
Yes, it's out of Africa. I mean, over the many years it changed to be adapted to the place and where it landed. So you know, out of cuba, you know. So cuba there's. You'll find that and a lot of the songs, the, the songs to orisha, the songs to the ancestors, the egg on the muertos. You're gonna see like you're gonna hear elements of the yoruba language.
Speaker 1:
Wow, can I get a song right now? I'm about to get my daughter to pull this up, let's see, let's see.
Speaker 3:
So that's a song to Oshun, which is the feminine aspect of the divine rules over rivers love, sensuality, relationships, passion, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:
Okay, so Oshun, I'm going to go. Oshun songs maybe.
Speaker 3:
Oshun, yes, oshun the Orisha Oshun. I'm going to go Oshun songs maybe Oshun, yes, oshun the Orisha Oshun songs.
Speaker 2:
Okay. So I have a question Can anyone practice Lukumi, or is it exclusive to a certain group? I don't know.
Speaker 3:
No, we have like we have. We got white people, black people, Chinese people, indian people. We got people from all over. I heard.
Speaker 2:
That's beautiful.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I mean, and, like you know, there's, there's in the rumor mill, there's like so many different celebrities that don't have melanin that have been initiated in the tradition. Um, you know, and they do that for their own reasons, whatever that is to protect what they got, whatever, um, but, um, yeah, it's like it's not, it's not just designated to, to people with melanin I heard jay-z uh spit a few lines about sure I mean that it's common knowledge, they even said that they were initiated.
Speaker 3:
I don't know how true that that is. Yeah, I don't know that. I think that's more of like the pure, like West African one, the one that is like out of, like Cuba that has the fusion You're going to look at, probably the on dabble, on dabble, um, uh, who are the other ones? Um, oh God, there's so many different groups. Uh, group uh Abilona, uh, grupo Abilona. They do a lot of Arisha songs, okay, and that's more of what what I practice out of, that's more of what I identify with. The other one that you played is is more out of West Africa directly, and I don't want to say it's like a bastardization, but it's just like you heard that song. There's no drums In Orisha, in Luquoni, there's drums. You gotta hear a drum and you gotta hear the shakeray. You know what if you don't hear the drum or the shakeray?
Speaker 3:
I don't want to say they bastardized it, but they did something to it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, he got one.
Speaker 3:
There we go, that's it, yes.
Speaker 1:
I just figured out.
Speaker 3:
Mike can't dance.
Speaker 2:
What happened?
Speaker 1:
I just saw Mike. He can't dance. I got the Florida water.
Speaker 3:
Oh, he's feeling it now, I see it.
Speaker 2:
I can't get up and dance right now.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I love that music actually.
Speaker 3:
Wow, yeah, I want to hear that it tells a story that's something that I could wake up to no, that's the beautiful thing like you should like, you play it, like it. You know it lifts your spirit and it's supposed to make you move. You know what I'm saying. And when we go to drummings, bembe's, you know the parties, the drum parties and things like that, those songs they tell a story and they speak to the Orisha and they pull the Orisha's down onto the people. They activate the Orisha's and so people get mounted. You, you know, with the spirit through these songs. These songs are very powerful that's deep, that's deep.
Speaker 1:
All right, mike, you want to go with the next question?
Speaker 2:
yeah, let me see you already answered that. So I was gonna ask what are some of the misconceptions about luke and me? I say, am I saying correctly, luke, who ask what are some of the?
Speaker 3:
misconceptions about Lukumi? Am I saying correctly?
Speaker 2:
Lukumi yeah. What are some of the misconceptions about it?
Speaker 3:
I mean you know the common one. Like my own family disowned me, my father's side, like, oh, you know you're a devil worshiper, you know you do witchcraft, brujeria, this, this and that. And I'm like, are you serious? Like you're serious, you know what I'm saying? And they, but there's nothing that they can use to justify my life is beautiful. It's not perfect, but it's beautiful. You know what I'm saying? Like, um, I'm fairly successful. My son is successful. Like, like there's nothing that you can say that says anything about witchcraft and brujeria and devil worship. There's no devil. You know there's, there's, there's there's energy of the light and then there's dark energy and it's, it's a constant for everyone. It's a constant. It's a delicate balance between the light and the dark.
Speaker 2:
As above, so is below.
Speaker 1:
But, like you said, it's a delicate balance because right next to light is darkness.
Speaker 2:
Man, you need one of your other things to make the stingless.
Speaker 1:
And that's what we struggle with on a day-to-day basis, every second of our lives.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, you just got to stay on the path, man. There's so many things that can pull you off. You know what I'm saying and it's like you got to stay, you got to fulfill your destiny the best way you can and you got to be able to recognize when some dark energy is trying to take you off your path. And they will move through people. People always think, oh, it's going to be a spirit, know that comes to you in your dreams and this, this and that, no, it moves through people to try and attack you, even through sickness. We always, like in my tradition, we pray away all of those things. Sickness, which is, I don't know, confusion, you know chaos, you know all of these negative things. We pray that away because these things are. We are in constant exposure to these things, and so we got to live the right way to keep those things away from us.
Speaker 1:
I'm on a path right now where I'm just like kind of like almost like a monk, where I'm like just kind of like everything's got to move out of the way and I got it of like everything's got to move out of the way and I got it.
Speaker 2:
It's a beautiful feeling, right? Yeah, I remember you told me that. You told me that a few weeks ago. He's like you set boundaries. I'm like, I'm like, no, I'm like, yeah, I do. I have to protect. The sanity is important, bro. Your sanity is very fragile. You don't know how fragile your sanity is. You could go any second. You could lose it. Yeah you're right, you, you're definitely right, you know how many court cases we dodge a day just going navigating through the world. A split second could cost you your freedom or your life.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, that's, true, and I would imagine for you guys as being, you know, men of color. It's tough for you guys and I teach black males. I teach black and Latino males coming from Brooklyn, the Bronx, all over the city you know, many of which are in gangs and all that you know. They're in the streets, they're hustling, they're trying to make their money. You know, for a number of different reasons, but it's. It's no joke out there.
Speaker 2:
The consequences that come with that, especially if you're going about it the way that's. That's frowned upon by the law. It comes with consequences, man.
Speaker 3:
But you know at the same time, that you live as a monk Mephetifun Shango. Shango is about living Shango. When he was on this earth, he loved to party. He's the Orisha that they always show him with red and white, the colors red and white.
Speaker 2:
Loves women, loves women.
Speaker 3:
I heard, he loves to dress nice, smell good, he loves to drink, he loves sex, he loves food, all the indulgences that you could he could ever, you know, engage in. That's what he was. But because he did that, you know he wants us to not do that, to not be extreme, but to live. You know what I'm saying To live, but you know to to make sure we do things in moderation so that we don't go overboard and we don't become slaves to these things and lose ourselves.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. Well, what I mean by the monk thing is more like like a certain period of time to like study and get deep within self. Uh, to, to, to then come out of the, come out on the other side. You know better, yeah.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:
It's important for, yeah, it's very much important again to protect your energy, your sanity. Build a mind, construct a mind. Once you build a mind, everything else follows and it changes the environment around you, the people around you.
Speaker 3:
It's a constant conflict. Like you know what I'm saying Like to be in this earthly plane with all this stimulation, you able to actually meditate, you know, without the phone going off, without this, without that, like boy, that's a challenge, it's a challenge. Like you know, I'm initiated and I know I got challenges. You know what I'm saying Like try to live as best as I can the right way, but it's, it's rough, it's really rough well, I noticed that you have on yellow and then you're the way your house is is painted yellow.
Speaker 1:
What's the significance of those colors?
Speaker 3:
so, as much as I'm a daughter of Oya, oshun has guided me throughout my whole entire life and she is with me and you know Oshun is like about love and relationships and happiness and you know the finer things in life. You know beautiful music, you know beautiful fragrances, like you know, and so and femininity, and you know I just and beauty, things that are beautiful both inside and out, and so you know I just love that energy and I really like identify with Oshun and her colors, which you know yellow, gold, oranges. You know things of that nature.
Speaker 1:
So what color is that? That color you have on there? Is that blue?
Speaker 3:
Right here.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
Yes, this is blue. So my fatty phone, yeah, my yeah, so yeah, my yeah is the feminine energy that rules over the ocean. She's the mother of the world, she's the mother of all children, she's the mother of motherless children, you know, she's the mother of wealth and abundance, and you know women who want to have children. They often, like you know, you know, do work with Yemaya, and so Yemaya, she, she is like, she is my ace bunkun. You know what I'm saying Because you know I had challenges with my mother coming up, and so Yemaya was my mother when my mother was not there. So Mferi pun Yemaya, so, and they often call people that, you know, kind of gravitate towards the ocean but also to the rivers. They often call them either sons or daughters of the two waters, so usually Oshun and Yemaya, they're sisters, they go together.
Speaker 2:
That's peace. That's go together. That's peace. That's peace. Any more questions, mike, that's pretty much it, man. She rocked it man. I like the energy man. I'm telling you it was very chill she was just like yeah, man alright alright, y'all.
Speaker 1:
So we're out of here. Peace to everybody. See everybody Tuesday, wednesday, thursday part in this week. This week was a little off.
Speaker 2:
It was a pleasure to have you. Thank you.
Speaker 1:
Pleasure to have you, sister. Everybody thanks for showing up joining us on the live. Thanks for everybody for watching. Thanks to the people who are downloading on. Spotify Keep downloading, keep downloading. We really appreciate it. See you guys, tuesday 7.30.
Speaker 2:
Check out Ayaba. She's official, I'm telling you.
Speaker 1:
Yes sir, yes sir. Hopefully we'll have her on again.
