Ready to unravel the layers of a historic international treaty that shaped a young nation? In this episode, we promise to enlighten you on the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States and Morocco, signed in 1786. We'll explore how this treaty was pivotal in establishing the U.S. as an independent nation, officially recognized by another sovereign state. With brother Sharif Anil Bey's invaluable insights, we aim to clear misunderstandings about nationality, "a nation within a nation," and the true implications of this historic pact.
Our conversation dives deep into the socio-political dimensions of nationality. We tackle the often misunderstood distinction between nationality as a social construct and its political ramifications. By tracing the historical continuity of the Moroccan Empire and its evolution into the modern Kingdom of Morocco, we clarify how these changes impact the identity and political status of Moors in North America. We'll also shed light on the importance of responsible scholarship and the risks of confirmation bias in historical research, particularly concerning the teachings of Prophet Noble Drew Ali and the Moorish Science Temple of America.
Flags, symbolism, and legality are more than just abstract concepts; they’re woven into the fabric of our discussion. We'll explore the nuanced differences between the Moroccan and Moorish flags and what they symbolize in contexts of legality and lawfulness. Drawing from the teachings of Jesus and Prophet Noble Drew Ali, we emphasize the spirit of the law over its letter. Our episode culminates in celebrating the strong ties between the Moorish community and historical Moors, highlighting the ongoing support from the Moroccan embassy. Special thanks to brother Sharif Anil Bey for his contributions, making this episode both enriching and enlightening. Join us for this compelling discussion and deepen your understanding of these critical historical and cultural intersections.
Ready to unravel the layers of a historic international treaty that shaped a young nation? In this episode, we promise to enlighten you on the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States and Morocco, signed in 1786. We'll explore how this treaty was pivotal in establishing the U.S. as an independent nation, officially recognized by another sovereign state. With brother Sharif Anil Bey's invaluable insights, we aim to clear misunderstandings about nationality, "a nation within a nation," and the true implications of this historic pact.
Our conversation dives deep into the socio-political dimensions of nationality. We tackle the often misunderstood distinction between nationality as a social construct and its political ramifications. By tracing the historical continuity of the Moroccan Empire and its evolution into the modern Kingdom of Morocco, we clarify how these changes impact the identity and political status of Moors in North America. We'll also shed light on the importance of responsible scholarship and the risks of confirmation bias in historical research, particularly concerning the teachings of Prophet Noble Drew Ali and the Moorish Science Temple of America.
Flags, symbolism, and legality are more than just abstract concepts; they’re woven into the fabric of our discussion. We'll explore the nuanced differences between the Moroccan and Moorish flags and what they symbolize in contexts of legality and lawfulness. Drawing from the teachings of Jesus and Prophet Noble Drew Ali, we emphasize the spirit of the law over its letter. Our episode culminates in celebrating the strong ties between the Moorish community and historical Moors, highlighting the ongoing support from the Moroccan embassy. Special thanks to brother Sharif Anil Bey for his contributions, making this episode both enriching and enlightening. Join us for this compelling discussion and deepen your understanding of these critical historical and cultural intersections.
What's going on, everybody? It's Ron Brown, lmt, the People's Fitness Professional, alongside Sharif Anil Bey. It's just he and I tonight. Pause, let's talk about it. Let's go straight into it. I know we have about 30 seconds to get y'all attention. Today's subject is about, uh, the treaty of peace and friendship, also the moroccan flag in the moorish flag. There you go, okay. So I want to start off with the treaty of peace and friendship and then you can go into uh, um, uh, the moroccan flag versus the Moorish flag.
Speaker 2:
There will be now and again there's going to be. First, let me begin with giving praise to Allah and honors to Prophet Nobujali. Honors to Moorish Science of America. Honors to my leadership of the R Jones Bay, grand Chica, moderator of Moorish Science of America, incorporated. Honors to his assistant brother, a Hopkins Bay, my dear brother and honest to New York perspective talk show and its creative host, right For the Ron Brown Bay.
Speaker 2:
So I wear two hats. Actually, I wear three hats. Right, I wear the hat of a member and a student of Prophet Nubu Drali and a believer, a member of the Moorish Science Temple of America, incorporated. I wear the hat of the national press secretary of the Moorish Science Temple of America. I also wear the hat of a researcher. So now that makes things interesting and I'm going to say why. So now that makes things interesting and I'm going to say why. The researcher, to do responsible research, has to go into a research topic knowing that he may find something that grates against his belief, and he has to be able to do it in spite of because that's responsible research. Right now, the opposite of that is what we call confirmation bias. I'm a believer and I'm only going to look for information that supports my belief, that's not scientific and that's not responsible. You see what I'm saying, so how does that?
Speaker 2:
work together with being a member of the. That's not scientific and that's not responsible. You see what I'm saying. So how does that work together with being a member of the more science symbol of America? Right, either a and this is what we found over the years, and I say we shout out to Ali's men the research team think tank, right, that I'm a member of. What we found over the years in doing this type of research and being members of the movement is that either A the research fully confirmed the prophet's teaching. B not only did it confirm it, it expanded our understanding of it. Or C it forced us to correct our misunderstanding of it. That's what we found.
Speaker 2:
So let's talk about this treaty of peace and friendship First. Let's just talk basic history. Why is the Treaty of Peace and Friendship significant in the United States of America? Because it was signed in 1786. The 13 colonies Right the 13 colonies right were not yet, had not yet completed the final step of being recognized as an independent nation. What is that final step? To be officially recognized by another independent nation within the family of nations. So the Treaty of Peace and Friendship served as that official recognition, because nations only make treaties with nations in this respect, you see. So the fact that the treaty was forged recognized the 13 colonies as independent, an independent nation in the United States of America. In 1986, 200 years later, the US Postal Service issued a commemorative stamp, bicentennial stamp, commemorating the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, and they did the informational booklet with it. And in that informational booklet it said that the Treaty of Peace and Friendship breathed the first breath of life into the budding nation. That's what it says. So that's the significance from the historical perspective.
Speaker 2:
Right Now, one of the misunderstandings. Well, let's deal with. Get to the root of the misunderstanding. The root of the misunderstanding is a long thought. When the Prophet Noble Jali, in the first convention in28, wrapped a Moorish flag around a young sister, an American flag around a young brother, kissed him on the forehead and said I now declare that we are a nation within a nation. There is the root of the misunderstanding when he said a nation, we're thinking nation. And then we end up imposing upon the prophet's words the idea that that nation is separate from and distinct from the United States of America. That's where the problem comes. And so then, what do we do?
Speaker 1:
Confirmation, bias, and so then what do we do?
Speaker 2:
Confirmation bias, we find or collect or search for information that supports our misunderstanding Right. So we begin to look at the Treaty of Peace and Friendship in that way.
Speaker 1:
You see now when did that?
Speaker 2:
when did more start using a Treaty of peace and friendship? Around what time would you, would you know, being that, you know they were more, as we're mixing the sovereign citizen documentation and movement with its teachings. Yes, well, my, my thoughts on that and I have to base it on my experience, not just research, but also my own experience would be the early to mid-80s. It could have gone on before then, sporadically and in small pockets, where there were those that were at least verbally trying to associate the movement with the Treaty of Peace and Friendship. Right With my experience, like I said, I would say early mid 80s is when that started to really take root, especially with the whole, you know, unfortunate merging of sovereign citizen tactics with Moorish identity. I like how you said tactics.
Speaker 2:
Mm-hmm, you know, and again, a tactic. You know, you're a martial artist. Every technique, a movement has a purpose, and purpose is synonymous with energy, spirit or intent. So a hook punch doesn't feel the same as a jab, because they have two different purposes. They have two different energies. They got two different spirits right, I say that. So now, when we inadvertently and unfortunately adopted sovereign citizen tactics, it came with the sovereign citizen spirit. It came with the sovereign citizen energy, which is diametrically opposed to the profit and the withdrawal in the Moorish movement.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it really is. Yes, yes, sir, yes, sir. So, if you can take me into the specifics as far as why exactly, even though you already explained that early on, exactly, even though you already explained that early on. But I just want to, I just want to, you know, break it down into a maybe finer detail as to why the Treaty of Peace and Friendship doesn't pertain to Moores here in North America.
Speaker 2:
OK, let's get right to it again. Let's deal with the root of the misunderstanding, or stay on within that framework of that realm. Here's another aspect of the root of the misunderstanding that nationality is a legal thing, simply because you could find the definition of nationality in a law dictionary. Nationality is not a legal matter, it's a social matter. Nationality is a part of the science called sociology. Nationality is a part of the science Called sociology. Guess what else is a part of the science Called sociology? Color code, race classification. Okay, that's a part of sociology, because it's a means by which you're automating the society, which is the definition of sociology.
Speaker 1:
So where does Sociology fit into the court of law?
Speaker 2:
It doesn't, and there lies the misunderstanding. Right, there lies the misunderstanding when you think follow me that nationality is a legal issue. Now you're thinking, proclaiming it has something to do with the courts, has something to do with whether the law applies to you or not, or which laws apply to you or not. You see, you showed up at the football game with a basketball jersey. That's the problem. Nationality is a social issue that has political implications, and the political implications affect what laws are made.
Speaker 1:
Right, that's how it works so our issue is uh more political than it is let's take it, let's go back even further.
Speaker 2:
Our issue is social, the prophet. I'll quote the prophet. The prophet said the problems of the world, right, in the general sense, are social and economic, but in a profound sense of moral and spiritual. He didn't say in the general sense they're legal.
Speaker 1:
He didn't say that, he said they're social and economic well, I would say social, social, political and economic, all kind of tie in well, of course it does.
Speaker 2:
No, no, I agree 100. Now let's go to the definition given in black's law dictionary of nationality to prove your point right nationality determines one's political status, specifically with reference to allegiance, while domicile determines one's civil status. That's what it says, you see. So politics trumps the law, sociology trumps politics. The prophet was a genius. He put us there. You see what I'm saying. That's where he put us, but we didn't understand where he put us there.
Speaker 1:
He you see what I'm saying. Yeah, that's where he put us, but we didn't understand where he put us gotcha, and we'll say that again.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I hear you now. Yeah, I said we didn't understand where he put us got you okay.
Speaker 1:
Now, um, now, when it comes to this, this, this uh treaty of peace and friendship. Yes, sir, it was a treaty. Now, what is the um definition of treaty? And and, and, and it's and its legal implications as far as uh, morocco and America?
Speaker 2:
Okay. So a treaty in this sense is an agreement between two different nations, between two nations, two nations. So the parties involved in a treaty are nations, not individuals. You understand, they're nations. So the question now becomes what nations Right? In 1786, what was it? The emperor of Morocco, who was the then head of the Sociopolitical entity called the Moroccan Empire? I have to say sociopolitical entity called the Moroccan Empire. I have to say sociopolitical because that's broader than tribal.
Speaker 2:
It's broader than ethnicity Way broader, it's sociopolitical. On page three of the Holy Quran, of the Moorish Science Symbol of America, at the bottom it says it's talking about the Moabites, canaanites, et cetera, that were driven out of the land of Canaan by Joshua and received permission from the Pharaohs of Egypt to settle and inhabit Northwest Africa Right. And it says in later years they formed kingdoms. In other words, they expanded from ethno-tribal to socio-political.
Speaker 1:
Right Now. Can you rewind what you just said? Can you repeat what you just said?
Speaker 2:
From the bottom of page three the Holy Quran, the more science symbol of America, right, it says, and I'm paraphrasing matter of fact, let me just quote it Because this here is what brothers and sisters might use to tie themselves to the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, tying themselves to Morocco Now.
Speaker 2:
peace and friendship tying themselves to morocco now, but, but then they're cutting out a huge part of the history. You can't you? There has to be a continuity, right, but, but? But we'll get to that. The industrious acts of the moslems of northwest and southwest africa, these are the more by tamatites, canaanites, who were driven out of the land of canaan by joshua and received permission from the pharaohs of Egypt to settle in that portion of Egypt. In later years, they formed themselves kingdoms. These kingdoms are called this day Morocco, algiers, tunis, tripoli, etc.
Speaker 2:
Now, here we go. If you want to tie yourself to the treaty, the only way you're tying yourself as an individual to the treaty is that you're tying yourself to a particular nation, and that would be OK. Then that means you're a subject of the emperor of Morocco. Is that what they're saying? Right? You see the problem? Yeah, because these same people say they're not subject to nothing. You see the problem? Yeah, because these same people will say they're not subject to nothing, and then they'll explicitly say they're not a part of the kingdom of Morocco. Get it when the kingdom of Morocco is the continuity of the old empire? Yeah, all right, empire.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, all right, just like the united kingdom is the modern continuity of the british empire see yeah, yeah, can't separate them okay.
Speaker 1:
So let's say, um, let's say the Moroccan Empire, morocco, algiers, tunis, tunis, tripoli. How would Moors from North America tie themselves to those, to that empire in particular?
Speaker 2:
Well, first of all, the empire is gone. That empire ended, if we were to be very, very, very technical, that empire ended with the French occupation and then really ended in 1956.
Speaker 1:
And what event was that 1956?
Speaker 2:
When France made the agreement with Morocco to leave and end the occupation, that was done via an agreement and now you have the kingdom of Morocco. See, let's fast forward to today, the United States of America, us foreign policy. What is the biggest criticism and the US can't really deny it because it's out there for everybody to see the biggest criticism of US foreign policy is that it's a nation state that acts like an empire.
Speaker 1:
See yeah, ok. Yeah, see yeah Okay.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, the age of empires effectively ended with Theodore Roosevelt putting the final kibosh on the Ottoman Empire. You see, all right. So you know, this is the age of nation states. The old world was the age of empires, kingdoms and dominions. As a point of history for everybody watching, the very first modern nation state, as we know, it was guess what? Spain. How was it formed? Two kingdoms together, joined. How did they join? Two kingdoms together Joined. How did they join? Via an arranged marriage King Ferdinand of the kingdom of Aragon and Queen Isabella of the kingdom of Castile.
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 2:
That's how and why. Here's the even kicker why is? For what purpose did they do that? So they could get extra effort and extra energy, or take advantage of the extra energy to finally oust our forefathers out of Spain?
Speaker 1:
that's why, but wouldn't you say the empire, that doesn't exist anymore. You know, as far as our forefathers controlling it still exists, as far as the land itself and land is land is?
Speaker 2:
that's a great question, by the way, and I saw what you did there. That's a great question. Land doesn't govern anybody. In the term empire, kingdom and dominion, those three terms are political terms. Those are terms of political geography. If we're going to bring geography into the game, that's political geography as opposed to natural geography.
Speaker 2:
The example I give all the time is the fact that many of us were alive when there was such a thing as the USSR, the Soviet Republic. The USSR doesn't exist anymore. The lines of the borders of it have been redrawn. They're different. That's political geography, people. It changes with the rise and fall of nations, see, see, you know like we're talking, like on the bottom of page three, egypt controlled the territory, the land area that we call Northwest Africa at that time. Hence that's how they got permission to settle there. Well, present day Egypt is a mere neighborhood compared to what it was. That's political geography, see. So the land is not an empire. The land may be territory controlled by the empire, controlled by the empire, big difference. That's why the prophet said where is the Moroccan empire? See what location? Because an empire is a political entity, not a piece of land.
Speaker 1:
Okay.
Speaker 2:
That make sense.
Speaker 1:
Yes, sir. Now what would you say if, uh, you know, let's say brothers say you know, the ancestors left things there and underneath, underneath the ground, and things of this nature. You know, and it's ours, we're entitled to that because you know, we.
Speaker 2:
You know, and it's ours, we're entitled to that because you know we are, you know we are entitled to it, that doesn't mean we're entitled to the land we don't own land. That's not how that works. Right Now, let's say that they're artifacts, but now we're not talking about legalities, we're not talking about law and ownership in that respect, we're talking about culture. Now, see, and the beauty of that? As American citizens, I have to say that the beauty of that is that the American system of government honors they have no other choice. They honor cultural heritage preservation, they honor it. You understand.
Speaker 2:
You just, number one, have to be in possession of your culture. Being in possession of it means having the knowledge of it, right, ok, so that's prerequisite. What is that, though? Proclaiming your nationality. Nationality is not just identity, it's the quality and character that comes with the nationality, that comes with the identity I mean. See, all right. So artifacts or things like that are what we call tangible cultural hereditaments. Tangible cultural hereditaments by right. They belong to the home culture. Now, there's a process by which you can go through to obtain these things, and the American system of government.
Speaker 2:
Honors that See. So you just can't go with paperwork, and that's not how it works. And here's the other part too. Individuals don't do that. A nation does it. You get it. An organized body representing those people do it, and that's what government is. Government is the organized representation for a nation. You see.
Speaker 1:
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:
And I had to say again, as American citizens, why? Because now that goes back on the whole treaty thing. Well, what side of the treaty are we on? Well, if you ask Prophet Nobu Juali, american citizenry, that's the side we're on, like it or not, that's the side we're on. You want to be on the Moroccan side, expatriate, become a subject of the emperor of morocco all right.
Speaker 1:
So now I want to give more context to the treaty. You know, exactly like the treaty of peace and friendship. You spoke on this, uh, the other day, um, and know. I just want you to expound on that a little bit more so people can understand exactly the context you know within the document itself.
Speaker 2:
All right. So get a book, and I'm saying you know I love giving references, now the quote unquote. They say give receipts, right, there's tons of stuff out there. You just have to know where to look and you have to know what you're looking at. But there's a book, a very, very, very informative book, written by a man named Ray Irwin. That's I-R-W-I-N.
Speaker 2:
The book is called the Diplomatic Relations Between the United States and the Barbary Powers. That's the name of the book Diplomatic Relations Between the United States and the Barbary Powers. What are the Barbary Powers? Morocco, algiers, tunis, tripoli, etc. That's the Barbary Powers, right? So there were diplomatic First of all, right off the title, that should tell you something. Diplomatic relations that involves the Treaty of Morocco or the Moroccan Treaty. Yes, it does. Well, what is the context surrounding it? The context surrounding it were conflicts on the high seas, and I'm oversimplifying. What were the conflicts? Our forefathers snatching up their boats and enslaving the occupants. That's what it was Snatching up their boats, enslaving the occupants. See, ray Irwin talks about how all of the European nations at that time were paying tribute to the Bay of Algiers. Yeah, matter of fact, that's literally where we get the term blackmail from. It was the tribute the European nations were paying to the Barbary Palace. This was going on in the 1700s, the same time that there was the transatlantic slave trade. True, right, right.
Speaker 1:
Whoa Right yeah.
Speaker 2:
This was going on around that time. You see, this is significant stuff. But this is, this is see, hidden history skews context, skews your narrative, skews your perspective, see. And so the treaty, with the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, ended or did a large part to end or mitigate those types of conflicts on the high seas.
Speaker 1:
And that's all that is.
Speaker 2:
That's it, that's it.
Speaker 1:
There you go, simple.
Speaker 2:
Simple. See what? Now let's go back to the psychology and the wrong thinking. When you have the idea that the Moorish movement is a is a quote unquote nation separate from the United States and opposite the United States, and then claiming superior claim to the land that's governed and controlled by the United States, you got a real problem. You see what I'm saying. So from that frame of thinking, you're thinking oh, okay, well, the treaty belongs. Oh, I'm covered under the treaty. I'm covered under the treaty, so that means I'm not governed by United States law. This is the wrong thinking, but this is the thinking. You see, I'm under the treaty, so so I end up getting involved in a traffic issue or a drug issue or whatever issue, and I go in front of the courts and then I try to pull the treaty out. No, no, no, no, I'm protected by the treaty. You shouldn't have even arrested me, you see, see. Then they start throwing other words out there that have nothing to do with the price of tea in China. Oh, because, remember, we're already following the wrong stream of thinking. So here we go.
Speaker 2:
If that was the case, if you were actually a subject of another nation that's in amity with the United States via treaty. Then what department covers those issues in the United States? The US Department of State, which means you would have already been registered with the Department of State ahead of time, right? Which also, which you see where this is going? Yeah, which also means you're an actual official representing that other country Exactly. And what's the word for that? Diplomat? Now, all of a sudden, everybody wants to be I'm a diplomatic status. No, no, no, no, no, no, you do so. That means we can call over there and they know you. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, you do so. That means we can call over there and they know you. We've got to call over there, we've got to call the Department of State and you're already registered.
Speaker 1:
See, this is how. That's where the word sovereign comes from. We're all sovereigns.
Speaker 2:
There you go. Yes, because, listen, brother, when I was dealing with that stuff, we first started saying diplomatic immunity and then we're like no, it's sovereign immunity, not diplomatic immunity. That's why yeah that's why, because we knew what diplomatic immunity is a privilege granted by, you know, and governed by the department of state okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:
So you basically I don't know if that cleared it up for for anyone out there, but that's pretty simple.
Speaker 2:
It really is, and what it is is that we hear it is we have a lust. We have a lust for certain things and in this case we have a lust For not obeying the law. We have a lust for our. We have. Let me not say, use the word lust and use the word attachment. We have an attachment to our misunderstanding. We don't want it to be wrong because we don't want to look at, look at ourselves like we're wrong all this time.
Speaker 1:
Well, what do you think about Moore's challenging jurisdiction based on nationality?
Speaker 2:
Again, again, right, right. I have a destination. If I'm two inches off by the time I I'm supposed to be where I'm supposed to be, I'm a thousand miles away. Just keep following the wrong thought. If you're challenging jurisdiction based on moorish nationality, you're so far away from the original thought. If you're challenging jurisdiction based on Moorish nationality, you're so far away from the original thought and the original intent.
Speaker 1:
But I mean, what if it's working? What if I'm challenging jurisdiction and I'm getting? You know, brother, we were there, we were there.
Speaker 2:
It was what we thought it was working. Follow me right this. Watch this. We thought it was working Right. So if you've ever been to court, especially like civil or even criminal, let's call it criminal You're in criminal court. How do you win the case? How do you win? What's it called? It's one word. What's it called? You're brought in on criminal charges. How do you win? What's the word? Acquittal? Okay, that's a win. There's no other way to win. That's a win.
Speaker 1:
In the courts. Real quick, pardon me, mo. Sure Hold, that thought I just want to address thanks to Awareness Daily. Samuel asked can you be a Mo if I was born in Africa? But we'll get to that. But facts, because I worked for the courts and a foreigner got a ticket and the consulate sent a letter squashing the case.
Speaker 2:
There you go See.
Speaker 1:
Okay.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, there you go, you see. So what were we?
Speaker 1:
just talking about. We're just talking about what, brother, pardon me, um, that, that threw me off a little bit, but I want to go into next moorish flag, in in the moroccan flag. Okay.
Speaker 2:
We won't even. We're going to get into like history stuff or whatever a little bit, but we really don't have to. A lot of times our misunderstandings don't even come, especially when it comes to the Moorish movement. They don't come a lot of times from a lack of knowledge of history or a lack of knowledge of theology, or a lot of times it just comes from a lack of attention of the proper use of the English language. So let's talk about it. Question 12, question 13, question 14 in the Quran questionnaire. Question 12, question 13, question 14 in the Quran questionnaire.
Speaker 2:
And this is where some people are going to disagree with me. I'm still your brother. So what we disagree? If we disagree, I'm still your brother. Right, we don't practice Prophet Jalal al-Ishaq. We don't practice the principles. We are not to practice the principles of segregation. And what do we mean by the principles of segregation? Practice of principle. We are not to practice the principles of segregation. And what do we mean by the principles of segregation? If, out of five things, whether Ron Brown Bay and I disagree on no out of five things, we disagree on four of them, we unite on the fifth one that we agree on. That's Islamic thinking. See, that's Islamic thinking. If we're focused on the disagreements, we're practicing the principles of segregation, right? So I had to say that to say okay, here we go. Question 12 what is his nationality? We're talking about prophet nobel dralee. Moorish american. Question 13 what is your nationality? Moorish american. Question 14 why are we moorish? Amer Answer Because we are descendants of what?
Speaker 1:
Moroccans.
Speaker 2:
Okay, and born in America. Let's go over that question and answer again. Why are we Moorish Americans? Because we are descendants of what?
Speaker 1:
Moroccans.
Speaker 2:
And born in America? Yeah, doesn't that sound like those two terms are being used interchangeably.
Speaker 1:
Okay, but then that goes back to can we still claim Morocco to verify our nationality?
Speaker 2:
as it pertains to different legal issues, what if I told you that's already a foregone conclusion? Now let's broaden that conversation, right? Do we need, or do Italian-Americans need, the country of Italy to validate or verify that they're Italians born in America?
Speaker 1:
No, all right, but we're considered Black socially.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Illegally Well okay, the legal thing, not legally, brother, I'm going to say the reason why I'm saying that is because when you go to sign applications and fill out applications and all that, and that's my point, brother, that's administrative procedure, that's not law Gotcha.
Speaker 2:
But I'm glad you said that, because a lot of times we don't know the difference. There is no law anywhere that says we declare these descendants of Africans to be black people. It doesn't exist. Never did we thought it did, we looked for it. There's no law that says that, see. See, it's sociology that has been institutionalized into the social fabric and it has now become administrative procedure. It's bad sociology.
Speaker 1:
I want to get, I want to please hold that thought. Please hold that thought. Fairness Daily asks does legality always equate to lawfulness, or can something be legal yet not lawful according to higher principles of justice, morality and spirituality?
Speaker 2:
Happens all the time. Happens all the time. Let's go back to the time of Jesus. What was Jesus' big beef? Or what was the rulers and the riches big beef with Jesus?
Speaker 2:
Jesus was doing two things. He was, number one, giving the secrets of the kingdom to the common people. Rulers and the rich ain't like that. See what I'm saying. Number two, he was checking the rulers and the rich by saying you were adhering to the letter of the law, absent the spirit of the law, and that is how you are enslaving the poor. See what I'm saying. So, letter of the law, oh, this is the letter of the law. Hey, you broke the law, offered your head, but I was starving. I ate one fig on the Sabbath day, see. So I would say the difference between lawful and legal is, in a sense, legal being procedural, letter of the law, lawful being principle, jurisprudence. Right, you got to have both together. What happens when your principle leaves your instrument? We would call that death. You got to have both. That's also why Jesus recorded and said he didn't come to break the law, he came to fulfill it. Right, he was reintroducing the spirit of the law back to the letter of the law. It was a renaissance movement.
Speaker 1:
It was a come home movement. That's what it was. So it to move on back, go back to the Moroccan flag and the Moorish flag, black being more black being more a social issue than it being a legal issue. Okay, I want to go back there.
Speaker 2:
I'm glad you brought that up because, as opposed to our fellow Americans who are of Italian descent, they never lost their identity. They never lost nationality. It's like what we were saying earlier today in Sunday school we're the only people in the history of humanity ever called the dead people Right.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I caught that. I was like, wow, yeah, you're right. Yeah, now you know who.
Speaker 2:
Revelations is talking about, and that's what the rest of the world doesn't want us to know. When we're in revelations talking about the resurrection of the dead, yeah, rest of the world doesn't really want us to know.
Speaker 1:
That's how to to so-called blacks blacks in North America.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely, absolutely Okay.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely, I got, I got to do the nods to that, so so. So now going back to the Moroccan flag, and and and the Moorish flag. Okay, the Moroccan flag. Now, when I was in the, the, my temple, the temple prior, the temple prior, the Grand Sheik says that the Moroccan flag, the five pointed star, is pointed, the stars pointed upright, and then the Moorish flag, the stars pointed more downward, right okay or it's a slight twist, a slight twist on the island yeah, you're great.
Speaker 2:
You know, I've heard that one before um your former grand chief. That's my brother. I love him. I don't necessarily agree with that. I don't agree with that. You know, um, what would constitute. You're like we're talking um, watch this you're not. And this is what I'm about to say is something I know, your former grand she knows very well. It's the science called vexillology, law of the flag yeah, I think he spoke on that yeah, I know he knows it very well.
Speaker 2:
So we're talking Title IV United States Code, law of the flag. So it gives you the guidelines for flying the flag under certain conditions, right? So follow me on this and remember how is it? This relates to not just commerce and recognition on the high seas, but between nations. So follow me closely. If what you said he said was true and we know that, according to Vexillology and title 4 United States code, that A nation in Distress flies their flag Upside down, how would you be able to tell? How would you be?
Speaker 1:
able to tell If? How would you be able to tell if it's Morris or Moroccan?
Speaker 2:
How would you be able to tell? Is it upside down? Is it right side up? How would you know?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, how would you know?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, how would you know?
Speaker 1:
See, I can't figure it out Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And that's the point.
Speaker 1:
And that's my point, okay.
Speaker 2:
And that's my point how would you know See. Because of the way the star is on the flag. Well, that's how you're supposed to know. But if you think that the Moroccan flag, or if you teach that the Moroccan flag, the star has the head pointing up and the Moorish flag has it pointing down, so what is the difference?
Speaker 2:
Who says there's a difference. That's why I began answering on this topic with question 14 and demonstrating that the question and answer use Moorish and Moroccan interchangeably. Demonstrating that the question and answer use Moorish and Moroccan interchangeably. See what will happen is a lot of those that believe that Moorish and Moroccan must be different. They'll say that Moroccan came after Moorish.
Speaker 1:
Then how can we be descendants of Moroccans?
Speaker 2:
Like I said a lot of times, it's just as simple as the proper use of the English language.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, okay, okay, okay. So the Moroccan flag in the Moorish flag is the same flag.
Speaker 2:
It's a red flag with a five point of green star in the center. Some people will split hairs over. Well, that green star can't have a black outline on it. Okay, I'm not. I personally me. I'm not going to split hairs on that, I'm not yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
So what about the flag with the tree on it and all this stuff? Where did all this stuff come from?
Speaker 2:
that's the continental flag right. For the continental United States, that was an interim period, the period between the 13 colonies being subject to England and it's full independence. So you're talking about the continental United States, right, there was a president of the continental United States. See, there were eight presidents before George Washington. We call George Washington the first president right, because it was after the end of the Revolutionary War, when we had full independence.
Speaker 1:
So does that tree represent the cherry tree?
Speaker 2:
No, the cherry tree is metaphoric. That's not literal. You know that's not literal, of course. You know that right. But you know the whole story. The cherry tree, you know some teach that it alludes to the, the, the downing of our flag by the christian powers. Yeah right, there's truth to that. There's Right, there's truth to that. There's truth to that. Of course it is. Of course there's truth to that. Here we go, shout out to my brother, norris Branham. Right, norris Branham is Turtle Island, nyc. That's my guy.
Speaker 1:
Oh Norris? Yeah, I know Norris. What's up If? Oh Norris? Yeah, I know Norris. What's up If Norris is watching? What's up, norris?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's my guy right. So Norris is an expert on these. His field of expertise in terms of this stuff ethnology and history and ethno-history is how the Native American old world side fell into the label of Blackness.
Speaker 2:
Okay, right Now, we've had a number of conversations, he and I, but one day we had a conversation, a one-to-one, because he was like yo, how do you know about Meredith Quinn? So I referenced this gentleman named Meredith Quinn, the late Meredith Quinn, right, meredith Quinn was a full-blooded Native American Lakota native Lakota like the Sioux, the Sioux Indians quote, unquote, right. And he was a heavy, heavy, heavy researcher but very unpopular with the status quo. Why was he so unpopular? Because the history he was given was old world history, that's super suppressed, super suppressed, okay, super suppressed. I've said this on your show before. What's worth Way more, what is infinitely more valuable To the present status quo Is preserving the narrative.
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 2:
That is why Sexy Ray Glorilla, all these types, they're managed a particular way, they're green the particular way and they present a particular style of product to preserve a particular narrative. That obviously, it's obvious what it is? It's an attack on Asiatic womanhood.
Speaker 1:
So that's that's going back to you stating that this is more of a social issue.
Speaker 2:
They'll pay them millions of dollars to do it. That's my point. They'll pay them millions of dollars to preserve and reinforce a narrative. Narrative is infinitely more important. So Meredith Quinn was very unpopular. But guess what are the things that Meredith Quinn said? Now, mind you, he was doing Native American research for Native Americans, not our people for Native Americans. Guess what he said? The Great Trail of Tears, the Great Indian Trail of Tears and the massacre of millions of Native Americans. You know what he said. The primary purpose purpose of that massacre was listen to this. It was to eradicate any evidence of an old world connection between Native American confederations and the Moroccan Empire between.
Speaker 2:
Native American confederations and the Moroccan empire. That's what Meredith Quinn said, but I'll send you his book.
Speaker 1:
That's what Meredith Quinn said. So really, who?
Speaker 2:
are the Native Americans, would I say the Native Americans are Moors. No, I will say, listen, that's not going to be too popular. I will say that there was an old world connection and that's what Meredith Quinn says. He said one of the main things that the European Christian powers wanted to eradicate with the Native Americans was any Native American that could speak one of the or more of the Aramaic languages. And we know, through Ferdinand Columbus, christopher Columbus' son, and Christopher Columbus himself, their own diary, said that when they Got here they met Native Americans that could speak Hebrew and Arabic. They said that Mm-hmm and Arab. They said that, see, it was just. The Crusades continued, brother, got you. The Crusades continued.
Speaker 1:
Now another question before we cut out, because you just cleared up a whole lot in my own head. Um so a brother just said oh, divine is in the building yo that's my guy I met elon probably in like 2007 or 8. The God is swift.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
We and.
Speaker 2:
El Devon go way back.
Speaker 1:
Peace God. But he just said the Native Americans are Moors.
Speaker 2:
Okay, Okay, we want to look at it. We want to. I mean, there might be a perspective in which I can agree with that. There might be. Me and Il Devon are going to build on that later.
Speaker 2:
Right, but now from a sociopolitical perspective, and I'm talking from Meredith Quinn, who was a preeminent Native American scholar. I'm not right, I'm not, he was. So I'm citing Meredith Quinn on that. Meredith Quinn said that there were listen to what I'm telling you. He said that there were treaties. He even gave the names of some of the treaties between the Moroccan Empire and certain Native American confederations. That's what he says. You can find Meredith Quinn lectures on YouTube. So Meredith Quinn made the distinction. I'm just citing Meredith Quinn and for me it's enough to know that there was the connection. Now to Il Devan's point. Right To Il Devan's point.
Speaker 2:
Let's talk about the expedition of Abu Bakari, the second, 200 years prior to the Columbus era. 200 years prior to the Columbus era, you had West Africans from the Senegambia In one expedition. I think it was 100, some odd ships. The next exhibition was 2000 ships. Right, they come to America. They don't come back. 200 years later, 200 years later, Columbus runs into Some of these people. Would you call them natives, or would you call them Africans and West Africans During the time of the Moroccan Empire? So what would they be? Again, this thing is way more Nuanced than we've been Trained to think. Think about it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yes okay, so, uh, back to the question that I you know I was gonna ask, so you don't have an issue with with flying the moroccan or the moorish flag at all. Right, what's?
Speaker 2:
the difference. How do you know the difference? There's no difference there's no, now someone disagree with me, that's fine. My, my, more you know, and and to that point, like I said, some people will split hairs over there being a black border around the green star. My, my particular flag does not have a black border around the green stuff okay and mores here in north america are recognized by morocco as more americans I sent you a letter back.
Speaker 2:
Um, I sent you a letter. I'll read the letter, okay. Um, in 1986, let me see if I can. Let me see if I can pull it up real quick. In 1986, there it is. In 1986, there was a Moorish American Centennial Committee out of Hartford, connecticut, temple 35. Temple 35, right, mati Jorio, ambassador of Morocco, at the Morris Centennial Celebration honoring Noble Drew Ali, january 11, 1986, at the Howard Inn in Washington DC. I'll read the letter for the listeners and the viewers.
Speaker 2:
It is a privilege for me and for the other staff members of the Embassy of Morocco to attend this, the Noble Juali Centennial Tribute Dinner. Please let me take this opportunity to express to you our collective appreciation for your kind invitation and my personal appreciation for having been chosen to receive the Ambassador of the Faith Award. I am greatly honored. It is also a pleasure for us to be in the company of such distinguished guests as these here tonight and to be taking part in such a joyous occasion. We are happy to bring you all greetings from His Majesty King Hussein or King Hassan II and the people of Morocco.
Speaker 2:
By now I have been made well aware of your devotion to strengthening the ties linking the Moorish American community to Morocco. Morocco, for its part, welcomes your interest and your work for a better understanding between us. I would like you to know that your efforts have not gone unnoticed. Your initiative is to be both respected and encouraged. As for us, we in turn have every intention of doing all possible to make our relationship a vibrant and a special one.
Speaker 2:
But for that goal to be met, we must also look to the future. We cannot limit ourselves to considering just the historical aspects of our relationship, thereby believing that good relations between us are a matter of fate. Rather, we should understand our cooperation to be a living entity. Right, hold on to me. Enable us to grow and open the future. It is here that we can begin to recognize the importance of our children's role. Whatever advances we make, it is our children who will have to follow through. Morocco is awaiting your proposals. We are pleased and proud to have the Moorish community, as one of the bridges between Morocco and the United States, as a new voice in the network of our longstanding relationship. Thank you. Courtesy of the embassy of the kingdom of Morocco.
Speaker 1:
That's it.
Speaker 2:
That's right. That's for those who say that the Moorish, that the Moorish Americans have no connection to the historical Moors well, let's wrap it up, man.
Speaker 1:
Thank you for coming out this evening. I really appreciate you, brother. You dropped it as usual. If you just came on in, I suggest you rewind, go back. We went over the Treaty of Peace and Friendship and we went over the Moroccan flag, the difference between the Moroccan flag and the Moorish flag and according to the brother Sharif, there is no difference. And according to me, I don't see a difference.
Speaker 2:
There you go, there you go there you go.
Speaker 1:
So peace, everybody. See y'all tomorrow night, peace.
