033: Overcoming Perfectionism with Carley Musser

This week's episode is a Parent Workshop from our archives with Carley Musser.  Carly is a mental performance coach and owner of CM Mental Performance.  She has a masters degree in Sport, Exercise and Performance Psychology  and strives to help athletes master their minds so they can master their craft. In this parent workshop, Carly talks about how to help your athlete work through perfectionist tendencies.  She talks about the important role parents play in helping to foster a process-focused attitude in their children and how to help them let go of perfection to unlock their true potential.

Episode Highlights:

• Pros and cons of perfectionism
• Differentiating between different types of perfectionism 
• What parents can do to support their children with perfectionist tendancies
• How mental skills benefit athletes for the rest of their lives

Connect with Carly:
Instagram: @cm_mentalperformance
 

More ways to work with Fearless Fastpitch

• Learn about our proven Mental Skills Program, The Fearless Warrior Program
• Book a One on One Session for your Athlete
• Book a Mental Skills Workshop for your Team or Organization

Follow us on Social Media

• Facebook @fearlessfastpitchmentaltraining
• Instagram @fearlessfastpitch
• Twitter @CoachAB_

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to the fearless warrior podcast, a place for athletes, coaches and parents who know the value of a strong mindset. I'm your host, coach AB, a mental performance coach on a mission, former softball coach, wife and mom of three. Each episode we will dive deep into all things mental performance, mindset tools and how to rewire the brain for success. So if your goal is to gain the mental edge and learn the secrets of mental performance, you're in the right place. Let's tune in to today's episode. Carly hails from Pennsylvania. She has her own private practice CM mental performance. She has her own private practice CM mental performance Um. She works with athletes. She's working with softball, basketball, tennis, um, which is awesome. And then, on the other side of her practice, she works with professionals aviation, medicine, I think high performers that need to stay calm and collected under pressure Um, she does it all.

Speaker 2: 1:04

So, without further ado, Carly, you have the floor. You want to do a little bit more about you and say hey, yeah, awesome, um, hi everyone, thank you for being here, um, tonight. As Amanda said, um, I am from Lancaster, pennsylvania, um, and I went to West Virginia university, pennsylvania, and I went to West Virginia University and I studied sport and exercise Sorry, it's always a mouthful of sport and exercise psychology there and then I went on for my master's in Florida. I went to Berry University Terribly miss Florida, especially, it's been frigid in PA and I studied sport, exercise and performance psychology. So I started up my own practice August 2020. And here we are and, as Amanda said, I work with all different types of athletes, all different ages and different performers, and I'm just so passionate about what I do. I just feel so blessed that I wake up every day just ready to to go. So, without further ado, I am ready when you are me and then okay, so we're going to talk about helping your athlete move beyond perfectionism and into self acceptance. So there was just my brief background on me. One thing that I didn't mention now, looking at it is I cheered competitively for like did back hands brings all that for 10 years, as well as the school team, and I also ran track. I ran the mile and I'm still a runner today. Nothing changed with running for me there, but I think everything else I hit on my background.

Speaker 2: 2:46

So quick question. I just kind of want to start off. To be honest, I'm a huge discussion person. To be honest, powerpoints aren't really my thing, but I just kind of want to start off this discussion. What is perfectionism? So just write some things in the chat what you think perfectionism is, how would you define it? What do you know about perfectionism and what are some pros and cons of inability to allow yourself to make mistakes? You need to get it right One hundred percent of the time. How about any pros and cons? Anybody have any pros and cons? Or think that it's all cons Expectation that you'll be able to do everything.

Speaker 3: 3:25

Okay.

Speaker 2: 3:26

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, all right, we can keep going Pro-driven consistency, discipline to get there. Okay, awesome, great. So perfectionism um, I just wanted to define it quick. So it's pros, which I yep, good, love it.

Speaker 2: 3:44

So perfectionism. The definition is as setting extremely high standards in conjunction with overly critical self-evaluation, so pretty much everything that you guys said. Hence, extremely high standards or putting too much pressure on yourself, and commonly it's identified in elite athletes as striving for flawlessness. I think somebody might've been you coach I'd be giving a hundred percent all the time, and something that I think we forget is it's a personality characteristic, so it's something that is a huge part of you and you'll notice with, or I've noticed with all different athletes that I've worked with of different ages, whether they're youth athletes, collegiate athletes or they're working toward getting to the pro levels. It's something that this striving for flawlessness and being perfect 100% of the time is the same across every, every different age group. So that's just something to keep in mind as we move forward, just really emphasizing that, the high standards, and being very critical of yourself. So some facts about perfectionism. So perfectionists they place a great deal of pressure, not just on themselves, but also from the standards of others. So, for instance, I actually had a D3 collegiate softball team. It's a great academic school and this week I was meeting with them and they just their level of pressure all the time to perform well is so high. This was the third session that I did with them today and essentially half the time they're afraid to even participate because they don't want to be wrong. So placing so much pressure on yourself, but also the pressure from other people whether it's coaches, parents, having to feel perfect, that's what a lot of us, I'm sure, know.

Speaker 2: 5:43

Perfectionism it's also strongly associated with anxiety. So when it comes to um, perfectionism, cognitive state anxiety and somatic state anxiety are high. Does anybody know what cognitive state anxiety and somatic state anxiety are? Just out of curiosity, just even give me a thumbs up, thumbs down. Anybody. Coach, I saw your thumbs up. So essentially, state anxiety is what we know as a state right, it's not a trait. So, in the moment, feeling cognitive state anxiety, which is all about the thoughts in your head, and somatic state anxiety, which is your heart beating faster, your palms getting sweaty, it's the physiological things. So when somebody is striving for perfection, it's also associated with an increase in those things. It's related to various aspects of motivation in sport. Right, if somebody is very perfectionistic to do their best, they're going to be more motivated.

Speaker 2: 6:50

It's also linked to burnout. Burnout is something that I think it's a term that's thrown around a lot by different coaches and by athletes, or saying like, oh man, I feel really burnt out. But burnout is so serious and it's not even just draining mentally but physically too. Um, and you'll notice, that's why a lot of times people can get sick, or athletes can get sick when they're not sleeping well and they're just constantly burning themselves out. Um, it becomes unhealthy and is more likely to lead to burnout when there's unending cycles and high effort. So, as coach AB said earlier, giving a hundred percent all the time and we know that, as you know, you guys are parents, you're not just like eight year olds, but we know that you can only give, you know the best that you can every day. You're not going to be able to give a hundred percent every single day, like just for so many reasons or life events or whatever might be happening, also with disappointment and harmful thoughts in addition to mental and physical exhaustion.

Speaker 2: 7:51

So with perfectionism in sport, there are two overarching factors. So you'll notice, in the beginning I said what are some pros and cons of perfectionism? I think when we hear the term it's not something that we always associate positively with. But the first one is functional perfectionism and this one's adaptive. So this is by perfectionistic striving, so wanting to be your best, having high personal standards for yourself, a desire for organization or self-oriented striving, and with this one it predicts lower levels of state anxiety that we talked about and higher levels of self-confidence. So this would be more of like a pro of perfectionism. Right, it's setting those goals for yourself. When I opened my own practice, I had these goals for myself. I at times maybe put a little bit too much pressure, but I had goals for myself For dysfunctional perfectionism, this one's maladaptive.

Speaker 2: 8:52

So these concerns with being so overly obsessed with mistakes or parental expectations or parental criticism, self-doubt, socially prescribed expectations, so all these things make up the dysfunctional perfectionism. So it's something that these are the things where it leads to burnout. There are higher levels of somatic and cognitive state anxiety that we talked about earlier. Predictive fear of failure. Fear of failure is something big with perfectionism, kind of like I mentioned a little bit ago with the team that I've been working with at the collegiate level.

Speaker 2: 9:30

You know these are people that aren't just athletes, but they go to such a great school academically that they're afraid of experiencing that shame and embarrassment. So it's something that I think a lot of teams, a lot of individuals can deal with and also you'll notice the as parents like parental expectations. Parental criticism is that way, but you might, you might know a parent that is that way, or a parent that is super hard on their, their child Um, and it's just. It's something that I think at the youth level um really causes athletes um to become more perfectionistic. Um, but you can also, you know, have have a child that you know you're you're not perfectionistic, or your spouse isn't perfectionistic, but they just ended up perfectionistic. So that's something that can just happen sometimes too.

Speaker 1: 10:28

Carly, I love what you said about wanting to meet parents' expectations. One of the things that I've noticed, which is interesting, I think we forget this a lot because we're the parents, we're close to it and when you are in a practice and you're that, that mediary person to talk to, to work through this, I experienced this all the time in group calls and on one-on-one calls. The top two reasons that girls are afraid to fail is they don't want to let their teammates down. That's number one, and they don't want to let their parents down. That's number two. Coaching actually ranks third, because they already know that their coach has high expectations for them. At the end of the day, a coach is a coach, at the end of the day, your mom and dad. So they may switch teams, they may graduate, they move, may move on from softball, but that idea of they crave your praise.

Speaker 1: 11:21

I think we forget that, and it's easy for me to say because I have a three-year-old and an eight month old, so I'm not in that phase of parenting. But, carly, you nailed this on the head. I love that you've kind of showed this on the level of how it's how they're interpreting it in their brain, and that I've never heard someone explain perfectionism as something that could be beneficial. So how do you have that conversation with an athlete to let them know you know, we don't want to shame them for that perfectionism. How can you have that conversation to show them, hey, part of your perfectionism is actually beneficial? How would you, how are you explaining that to your athletes?

Speaker 2: 11:59

Yeah, no, um, that's actually a great question. Um, so this actually happened with this softball team. Um, the other week I was doing a session with pitchers and catchers, um, and I asked them about strengths and weaknesses and one of them, she was really on her weaknesses. And I said she was really on her weaknesses and I said you know, we all have area to grow, but when you're so focused on your weaknesses, you know your, your confidence is, is going to go down because you're just you have no trust, you have no self belief in yourself. And I said I kind of brought up this question, I said is all perfectionism bad? And they kind of I opened it up to all of them. They're just kind of like well, no, and I was like it's knowing, it's being aware.

Speaker 2: 12:41

The first thing in mental skills overall and I'll even touch on this later is self-awareness, so knowing, hey, you know what I'm being, this is a perfectionistic tendency or this is how I'm having these high personal standards for myself. But you know what? It's okay to just like be calm. Even a personal example was when COVID hit. I'm super into running, I'm super into working out, and I was like really struggling, like the one day, like I just was like man, every day I'm trying to just go at it Like I have all this time, and I was like, really, you can't, you, you're human first. You cannot physically, you know, go full out every single day. So that was something that even hit me.

Speaker 2: 13:27

So I think, um, I think, coach AB, the biggest thing is self-awareness, knowing how you know what this is, something that is. That's a positive thing, right, like the desire for organization, perfectionistic strivings, right, like holding yourself to that higher standard. But when it starts to get to the point where it's taking control of you keyword control that's when I think it can become a big issue. When we're like, oh, I can't make any mistakes, right, or I can't fail at all, um, I think those that's when it really starts to become an issue. Um, when it's really starting to tear down your, your confidence and your self-belief. I think is such a big thing. Does that make sense a little bit? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:10

Yeah, and talking to them through that. I think it's awesome too, because I, you guys, as parents, know your daughter best. So if you can just get curious self-awareness, that's. I mean, if you take away one thing from this, it's really having that conversation and you can't be aware unless you have the conversation with your daughter. But you guys are all here and you're putting in the work.

Speaker 2: 14:31

So I kind of started talking about this. But coping with perfectionism, right, so how do we? Again, it's a, it's a personality characteristic. So if somebody is perfectionistic, that doesn't necessarily mean that coping with it means it's just going to go away, right, but it's saying, hey, you know what? How can we? How can we nip this, um and kind of take it from a different angle? And the first thing is self-awareness. How can we nip this and kind of take it from a different angle? And the first thing is self-awareness.

Speaker 2: 14:59

I always say, for any mental skill, for anything, you can't grow if you don't know, If you don't know what is, you know bothering you or if you're afraid to admit it to yourself. You can't grow until you decide to take that first step and say you know what, I'm realizing this about myself and I'm going to take a second to be vulnerable and really try and work on this. The second thing is being like that we're human first. I'm sure we're all familiar with Simone Biles. She really comes to mind whenever I think about this or talk about this. She decided, hey, you know what, I need to take a second and you know, like, put me first. And I think there was so much controversy about this and saying you know well, if you're performing that level, you should be able to, you know, compete or do great and I know the Winter Olympics are on right now but you have to remember you're human first. Even celebrities, even people in the NFL, even people in the MLB, whoever we're all human beings first. So we're going to have emotions, we're going to have times where we're upset or we're angry, or we're excited or we're frustrated. So I think, really remembering that you know what, I'm human first, and it's okay that I really want to succeed and do well, but when it's really hurting me and impacting my self-esteem, this is what I don't want.

Speaker 2: 16:18

The third thing and this was something that I mentioned, that I did with my, my softball team is focusing on your strengths over your weaknesses. It's good to be aware of the areas that we need to improve upon. Right, we all have room to do um to improve upon as human beings. There's, there's always things that we can improve upon. But if I'm working with somebody who's very perfectionistic, I'm going to say, hey, you know what? Like, that's really great, that these are your areas you need to work on, but I'm going to end the conversation with focusing more on their strengths, because they need to tone in on their, their confidence. They need to leave the conversation thinking about all the things that they do well at, you know, um. So that again is also from my perspective.

Speaker 2: 17:05

And working with athletes is knowing your athlete, um, and I think for you guys as parents, you know it's, it's knowing your child, not just who they are on the field, um, but who they are off the field. You know it's, it's knowing your child, not just who they are on the field, but who they are off the field. You know, just knowing what makes them them and even just bringing up certain things. You know being like, hey, you could have worked on this a little bit, but I really liked how you did that Right. So, leaving it with a positive thing, controlling the controllables.

Speaker 2: 17:34

So often with perfectionism and perfectionists we tend to get so oh my gosh, well, I could have done so much better if the umpire wouldn't have done this or if this wouldn't have happened. Well, guess what that was in the past? We can't control the past and we also can't control other people or umpires or anyone else. So it's okay to be upset, it's okay, again, to have emotions, but when a certain emotion starts controlling you, that's when there can be some frustration and some upset.

Speaker 2: 18:07

Um, and the last one is focusing more on effort rather than expectations. Expectations are a huge thing with perfectionism, and the problem with expectations is when we set expectations, sometimes our expectations are outside of our control. So, you know, it might be to get, let's say, third place or first place or whatever, but you don't always know who you're up against. You might give everything you have, but sometimes they're just going to be situations in life where, no matter how hard you try, you might not live up to your expectations. So it's focusing more on effort. Hey, I'm going to give the best that I can today. This is the result that I would really like to have, but if it doesn't happen, I'm going to be proud of myself that I gave my all, rather than I need to do this or I'm not going to be able to sleep, if that makes sense. Coach AB, do you have anything to highlight on?

Speaker 1: 18:59

I just constantly think about our sport specific and I know you guys are all softball athletes and some of your daughters may be multi-sport athletes, but we play an incredibly cruel sport Right. And one of the things that I joke with the girls is like ask your girls this is a really cool conversation piece If they are multi-sport athletes what happens if you miss a volley in volleyball? What happens if you miss a bump or a set if the ball's coming back? What happens if you miss a shot in basketball? And I asked the girls I say, even at your age ball. And I asked the girls I say, even at your age 12 and under, whatever basketball is, they're getting opportunities to put up 12 to 15 shots in a youth game.

Speaker 1: 19:45

And when we think about softball, I asked them I say you know, in a five inning game, if you're playing, you know 65 minutes, 75 minutes, how many times roughly do you get the ball? And depending on the position, it's like two or three, maybe if you're a shortstop it's five to seven. And they start to see oh yeah, I have way less chances, so that when I stew in my mistakes or I wanna be perfect or even are at bats like you're not gonna go. Three for three, it starts to click. We can't assume like that's why you guys are here and that's why you're investing in the mental game and learning from coach Carly. It's all about creating that awareness and helping them to understand what are the factors. There's umpires and a game of failure and strike zones and you're working on your hitting and all of these things. Softball is a really insane sport when you think about it. So that's that's all I have to add about that.

Speaker 2: 20:33

Yeah, absolutely it is. And working with a lot of baseball and softball athletes, it's it is. You have so much up against you, and they're two of the biggest sports, that you have very little control, um, over the outcome or the result. Um, it's just, it's one of those things. So, yeah, I think I think you worded it perfectly. It's crazy there's there's so many different things, absolutely so. With that being said, so again, we all we started this off with you know perfectionism and moving into self-acceptance. So how do we get you know, or how do you, as parents, support your, your child, with moving into self-acceptance? Well, unfortunately it's not something that happens overnight, but you'll notice, you know it's the same way physically. If you want to get better at something, physically, you have to continue to put in the rest. If you decide, hey, you know what, I want to get stronger, so I'm going to hire a trainer or start going to the gym more it doesn't just happen overnight, it has to. You have to continue to do it over and over and over again. So the number one thing is self-compassion, and this is more of a. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with mindfulness. It's a mental skill that it's all about being in the moment, and I actually wrote my thesis on it, but this is a piece kind of of mindfulness is self-compassion. It's not about being easy on yourself. It's not about being like, oh man, you know what? Like I just didn't stick to my, my goals today, like I'm just going to pat myself on the back and sit here and do nothing. It's not about being easy on yourself, but it's not about being hard on yourself either. So, as you would treat, hopefully in a good way, as you would treat a teammate or a friend and helping them to feel better when they're feeling down, give yourself that same sort of self-compassion. So I think that teaching your kids and even I mean I'm sure some of you parents or you might even have a friend that you know is like really hard on yourself, hard on themselves. This is something you can take away from it too, and it's something that I've even had to practice what I preach, because I'm so like, okay, I just want to do well and I want to be the best person that I can be, but remembering you know what I need to offer myself some grace, and I actually the other day I wasn't even watching the Olympics. That that much. But a snowboarder I heard her say. She was like I think I just you know the pressure's just a lot and I was really emotional and I think we all need to just give ourself a little grace and I love that so much.

Speaker 2: 23:02

That's exactly what self-compassion is knowing that you gave it your all, but also being like you know what, meeting yourself in the middle, essentially, um, focusing on process over the outcome. So focusing on all the daily like little things to get better. So not just saying, hey, you know what, you know what kid you better. Like, you know, get this many home runs. Um, it's it's more about hey, you know what, are you focusing on all the things that that you need to do daily to get better? Are you, you know, helping to hold them accountable, even, you know, as parents? Um, and also just focusing on that. That process, rather than the outcome, is so key, cause if you have somebody that is very perfectionistic, um, they're just going to continue to try to focus on the outcome and, honestly, they're not even going to really pay attention to daily living. It's just going to be so focused on the future.

Speaker 2: 23:58

Um, also trusting yourself. Um, I think the older we get. Um, we'd like to think that we know ourselves better, um, but the more, the older we get as well, the more experiences that we have, um, so kind of vicarious experiences. If you see your, your son or daughter, um, I mean this can be obviously if you, if you have other kids out and that aren't in softball. But if you see somebody you know struggling and reminding them hey, you know what, last time you were really nervous, but you know what, this time you got it. Um. Or hey, you know what, to a friend. Or even maybe you're a uh, a financial advisor, or you are a CEO at a company and your friend has to give a presentation and they're so nervous you know saying, hey, you know what you did it last time, just trust yourself. I think it's such a big part of self acceptance. And then putting in the reps, which I kind of started this off with just continuing to put in the reps, mentally, physically, continuing to do it every day, continuing to do it daily. Um, the more that you practice that mindset of self-compassion and you know being kind to yourself, the more that you're going to continue to have that result, um, so I have up here perfectionism examples. So I'm very big on, you know, the applied aspect.

Speaker 2: 25:20

Obviously, this was something for you guys to learn about, but I wanted to kind of give some examples that either the first three are ones that I've dealt with with athletes and then the last one is kind of one that I've kind of dealt with but kind of made it up. So those two factors that I talked about earlier, the functional um, perfectionism being, you know the having the high, high striving for yourself, you know those, those goals for yourself. And then dysfunctional being when it gets to be too much, where it's not helpful. So the first one is feeling like they let my team down, I'll go to my car and cry for an hour afterwards. This feeling like they let my team down, I'll go to my car and cry for an hour afterwards.

Speaker 2: 25:57

This um was actually a soccer player that I, one of my clients, um, in high school and she is um, that one's dysfunctional right Um, pretty much she took it upon herself, even if her teammates, you know, were like you know what it's okay, like it'll be good, you gave it your all, whatever. She would go to her car and cry for an hour afterwards, um, and then that, of course, is just affecting the rest of her night, it's affecting her self-confidence. Um, so good, that one was dysfunctional. The next one my parents help make my goals for me. Um, this actually is. Uh, she's a runner, um, and she's one of four kids and her brothers are really big into hockey and baseball and she just wants to run just because she enjoys running. And the other week I was talking to her and she was like, yeah, my dad literally like, will make my goals for me and tell me I have to do it. That is 100 hundred percent taking away the enjoyment of the sport, and it also is like making her even more perfectionistic. She's already perfectionistic, but this is also adding so much pressure on her and stress and it slowly started to surface and come out, um, just how much it's affecting her. Um, so what, what one? Would you guys rate that one as yeah, I probably gave it away in my uh example, but, um, good, that one's dysfunctional as well.

Speaker 2: 27:27

Um, the third one I wrote down my weaknesses first, because I like to think I have areas in which I can improve upon. So, this one's kind of this one's kind of tricky, so it, it's kind of I would. I would lean more towards. I would lean more toward dysfunctional, just because it says about weaknesses first, but there's also that piece of. I like to think I have areas in which I can improve upon. So that one, you know it, it might be somebody who, I mean you can be working with somebody or have a child who shows both, you know is sometimes has that, that, hey, I just really want to excel and I really want to do well for myself, but then at times they can really beat up on themselves. You know, that can that can happen. There can be a combination, um, but yeah, I would say that one is is a little more dysfunctional just because of the weaknesses, but there there are some things in that one that could make it functional as well.

Speaker 2: 28:24

Um, last one, I would stay hours after practice and wouldn't let myself leave until I made at least 15 free throws in a row. If I messed up one, I started all over. Yeah, dysfunction, yep, um, and I think that it. I think it's something in our culture um, even more, maybe even more years ago that it's it's mental toughness. Right, it's looking at it as oh man, well, I'm mentally tough, I'm going to stay after, I'm going to practice. Um, I'm going to give it my all, but that this is right here is like what leads to burnout, right, it's just. Eventually your body is just going to become so exhausted and mentally you're going to become so exhausted over time, like if you're somebody that continues to do that. That's, that's what we don't want.

Speaker 2: 29:10

And also a big thing, I think, is I always. I always love to say is it my mind giving in or is it my body giving up Knowing and being self-aware of hey, you know what? Am I just checking out? You know, if I'm working out and doing burpees, am I just like, oh man, I can't do this last one? Or is my body just physically like you know what I'm done? It's such a big thing, so good you guys. You guys did great with those. So I'm really big on summaries and key takeaways, especially when there's a ton of different information.

Speaker 2: 29:42

So kind of three things to really take with you are it's beneficial to hold yourself to a high standard, kind of like we talked about, as long as you can control thoughts about errors and setbacks. Like we talked about as long as you can control thoughts about errors and setbacks. So it's okay to say you know what I really want to do this, but as time goes on, if I mess up or if I make mistakes, it's okay. You know, it might really be hard to do that, but at the end of the day it's going to be okay. That's that's when it can be beneficial and this, this type of a functional perfectionism um, and best performance is associated with functional perfectionism, of course. So having that standard, that motivation to continue to work hard, to excel, that's going to help with performance. That's what we want Perfectionism, motivation to perform. Pushing through injury. Need to please others no assertiveness, it's all been connected to burnout. Need to please others no assertiveness, it's all been connected to burnout. This last one really makes me think of I.

Speaker 2: 30:48

I have a client who just started at Bucknell this year and he just pretty much his senior year. He just kept going. He kind of had an injury but decided to just, you know, take care of it for a little bit, then went back and then he ended up getting super sick. He ended up having to go to a hotel because of mold in his in his dorm room, so like things that were outside of his control, but pretty much he was so perfectionistic and essentially everything just went wrong. He was so perfectionistic and essentially everything just went wrong. It was just like his first semester in college, poor dude. Like just everything went wrong.

Speaker 2: 31:32

But I think he started to see you know what really is important. He started to notice. He became burnout because there was this idea of being so perfectionistic, pushing through injury, needing to be the best and also needing to be the best um, and also needing to be the best on the team. Meanwhile he was a freshman at a great school and it just was not realistic at all. Um. So that's just a, an example um of someone that I've worked with um, not softball related. This example wasn't because he's a runner, but I mean it happens all the time. So, yeah, anything to add. Coach AB, I love the takeaways.

Speaker 1: 32:13

I think parents are more equipped to understand this simply by your presentation and having awareness. I would love a pulse. I guess how many of you guys you can unmute or you can pop in the chat on a scale of one to 10, 10 being yes. My daughter, absolutely without a doubt, has functional and dysfunctional. It could be both. 10 would be yes. She has perfectionism tendencies. Maybe five is middle of the road or maybe one is no, she really doesn't Um, or maybe you didn't you just haven't noticed what?

Speaker 1: 32:50

where are we at on a scale of one to 10? Would you guys say I love, I love scales of one to 10. With the girls it's easier for them to kind of give a starting point and then maybe that'll prompt some questions, and I'm sure Carly would love to answer questions as well. Wow, um, I wanted, before this gets too far down in the chat, chris said there are two extremes of perfectionism one where they won't attempt things because they can't do it perfect, and then there is one overworking and feeling bad, trying to be perfect. My daughter tries to hide her tendencies with indifference when asked anyone else see that, I mean you can see the head nods. That's awesome, chris. I mean it. The situation is not awesome, but the fact that you're aware of it. Is there a question with that?

Speaker 4: 33:33

if you'd like to unmute, so, uh, took me a while to figure it out, but, um, I guess my daughter has, has done both extremes. So now she tries to hide, and by indifference when you ask her about it, or even when you talk about goals. Like you know she's a perfectionist. But you'll say, well, why don't you make goals? Well, that's a setup for failure, you know, and it's like okay, no, I know that and stuff. So I guess my question would be you know I've tried, I've done different language. You know I try and set up expectations with different language, and you've kind of touched on that. But my question would be to how to push a perfectionist in areas that they need to be pushed in, without pushing too hard.

Speaker 2: 34:21

Yeah, I think that's a really good question. There's a lot of gray area. I think the first thing is, you know, again going back to identify strengths and weaknesses, right, saying hey, what do you see? And also you know, then kind of discussing what you might see in a kind way, you know saying, hey, I noticed that you put um, you know that you really struggle with motivating yourself or that you're only motivated, you know, when other people are telling you to do stuff, whatever it is Um, and kind of like going off of that.

Speaker 2: 34:54

But I think another thing is you mentioned goals or expectations, right? Didn't you say I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly. She said she doesn't want to make goals because of setting herself up for failure. Okay, so not all goals are going to set you up for failure either. Is it a realistic goal, right? Like, is it something that's realistic? Is it something that is even attainable, right?

Speaker 2: 35:23

So I think there's a big difference between um and that's why I really stray away from expectations a lot of times. Right, it's it's goals. What can you do inside of your control every day, right? So, like, let's say that, um, like, for me, a big thing I do is journaling and I have, like a lot of my clients do it and saying, okay, you know what if? If it's not realistic for you to journal, for you know, five days a week, all right, let's do it two days a week, do it for two minutes, right, and so it's slowly. It's kind of meeting them in the middle.

Speaker 2: 35:56

So I think it's it's not necessarily the expectations or um, the whole thing with goal setting and something that I didn't mention. But with perfectionists it's black or white thinking a lot of times. So she probably has in her head, okay, well, all goal setting is bad because it's just going to set me up for failure, so I don't want to do it at all. But that's not the right mindset to have. But you're probably going through this revolving door, essentially trying to get her to. You know, think about it. But then also being like, oh well, it's just going to set me up for failure. So I think, really trying to think about well, or challenging her even in saying, well, how is it setting you up for failure? Like, what are your goals? Is that something that's realistic for failure? Like, what are your goals? Is that something that's realistic? And I think kind of challenging her thinking might lead her more to being like well, maybe, or it might take her a little bit to to open up about it, but it's just somewhere to start.

Speaker 4: 36:55

Yeah, I almost feel like it's it's her.

Speaker 4: 36:58

She doesn't want the goals because it's's more pressure and she feels like she should be able to do it without the goals. You know what I mean? Like she feels she's one of those people who, like, if she doesn't she learns and does things really quickly and if she doesn't get it in the first 10 minutes, now I'm frustrated, because I usually get it in 10 minutes. I should have it already. Like and she's a pitcher, so she's learned most of her pitches in like 10 minutes and then just went on to make them better, and so that's why she gets frustrated. Like, oh, this pitch isn't working today. What's wrong?

Speaker 2: 37:29

there's something wrong with me, so yeah and I think that's the biggest thing is knowing that and it's not going to just happen over overnight, but knowing, hey, you know what I'm gonna have off days. It goes goes back to that, that human um. You know the mentality of being human, I mean, again, I just I think, even for females too, that Simone Biles couldn't be a better example of um. You know, whether it's something that you agree or disagree with being able to perform at the highest level. I mean, it's just something to remember being human first. You know, and I think it's something that we, we forget, um, and we're just, we're all going to have good days and we're all going to have bad days. It's just, it's life, um. So, yeah, that's just something that I would really try to to explain to her. How old is she? She's 14. She, um.

Speaker 4: 38:17

I tried to put it in. I, she's 14. I tried to put it in. Unfortunately, somehow I got on to posting to a single person, so I put her in she's 14. She's on a 16-year team. She's the starting varsity pitcher as a freshman, so she's good, but she feels the pressure as everything she goes Like. Her comment today was, as she comes in in the car is I found out I have a game on Tuesday. They have new signs. I'm I'm worried about the signs. So so, but so uh, this is my daughter, by the way awesome.

Speaker 2: 38:57

Thank you for sharing thank you one of.

Speaker 1: 39:01

One of the things I would love to add and this is for everybody's situation too is, I think, as their brains are developing, and even us, right, it's human nature to be so locked in on our own lives. So the more that you can give her examples of hey, this is your mom here. Let me tell you about a time where I messed up at work. Let me tell you about a time where I messed up at work. Let me tell you about a time where I let my emotions snap. Let me tell you about a time where I failed, and the more that you can help meet them where they're at again.

Speaker 1: 39:32

These don't have to be softball analogies, and maybe you guys did play sports. You could give them a sports analogy, but I will never forget this. My dad played basketball and the only two points he ever scored was for the other team, and I'll never forget that conversation because it was literally after a game where I walked in the winning run in a championship game when I was 12. I know what field, what town. I will never forget that moment, and it had nothing to do with the fact that I had just lost the game. My dad just wanted to say, like, dude, you're human, I love you. You want to hear something embarrassing that I've done, and it was like the most significant moment in my career, because it was like, okay, I'm going to have that image in my mind for the rest of my life. So, yeah, what, what can you bring to your daughter's life that would be similar, is my, my advice, too. This is awesome, yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:21

Great, I think that's. I think that's a great point to bring up, um, and I think something alongside with that is social support, right. So it's kind of going off of that social your offer, you're offering them social support and through sharing those experiences. And I think, another thing that I didn't mention I know we talked about fear of failure, but fear is such a big thing, especially for, you know, young kids. I'm sure we all can remember back to a time growing up where we were just afraid, right, whether there were monsters under our bed or whatever it was. So fear is just, you know, it's an analogy, essentially. So I think, too, just bringing up being like okay, well, what are you, what are fearful of? What are you like, what are your fears in life? Helping them know that and and really challenging them.

Speaker 2: 41:08

Like I'll never forget learning in one of my classes in undergrad about fear.

Speaker 2: 41:12

My professor said when you, when people are fearful of public speaking, they're not afraid of standing, they're not afraid of standing up there in front of a ton of people, they're afraid about what everybody's thinking, what everybody's going to say about you at the end, right, so a lot of times it's, it's something that we need to check Yep, false evidence appearing real, absolutely, it's something that we need to remember, um, and I think that, the more that you can challenge their fears and being like, okay, well, why are you fearful of failing? You know what, what's inside of your control? You can't control the future, right? I think is is such a big thing and, honestly, every time that, like I've been fearful in life, you know I have to practice what I preach, and pause and challenge myself and saying you know what, what's the cost of taking a leap of faith and what's the cost of not, and a lot of times it's a greater cost of you know, okay, not taking the leap of faith. I mean, if I didn't do that then I wouldn't have my own practice.

Speaker 2: 42:11

So I think it's just something to really get them to start thinking about young, you know, from a young age, because what you're feeling their brain with is really going to determine who they become as an adult.

Speaker 1: 42:22

We want to be mindful of time. We do have the whole hour planned, so if you guys have questions, you're more than welcome to continue to ask questions. Carly, this has been amazing. We will just continue to do Q&A for the last 10 minutes If anyone has questions. Carly, do you have anything? Anything to add? Can?

Speaker 3: 42:42

I ask something real quick. Yeah, yes, lori, all right. How do you tell the difference between, like, more of a control issue versus fear and the dysfunctional thought process on all of that, whether it be in pitching or I have another daughter and her thing is she's exceptional in you know arts and she refuses to try it because she doesn't want to have obviously that failed. But it's that extreme control in that thought process of what other things are going on and she can't control what other people are doing like. How do you help them with that kind of a scenario or that thought process?

Speaker 2: 43:31

yeah, so uh, just to clarify, do you mean kind of like, how do you get them to like be okay with not being able to control everything?

Speaker 3: 43:41

essentially, yeah, like my one daughter.

Speaker 3: 43:45

Well, you know, instead of like everyone's, like, you did amazing um at the school play, you did this and she'll stop and she will never go back to it, because she now has an expectation where she excelled and she refuses to go back to that because if it isn't as good as it was before, then I'm not going to try. And then my other softball player is, you know, she's like I've got this, it's. I can't control everything around me and but I'm going to keep going forward and I just work on it and I have polar. You know opposites, but yet they expect much out of everything as far as functional and dysfunctional. So I have a hard time navigating all that.

Speaker 2: 44:33

Yeah, absolutely. Um. So I think a big thing is, you know, asking them a lot of times I have athletes the higher up you go, what you'll notice? Um, and there's been so much research to even support this with youth sports, the number one reason for dropping out is lack of enjoyment. So you'll notice, if I mean I don't know if everybody, if people follow the NFL, whatever, whatever team that you like, you'll notice, like, as you climb up the ladder, like NFL players, nba players, like, your enjoyment level starts to go down because it's not just playing for fun anymore. It then becomes a chore, it becomes your career, it becomes, you know, supporting your family, all these different things.

Speaker 2: 45:18

So the same thing kind of happens with youth sport. You enter, you enter sport for fun, to be with your friends, to, you know, have fun, whatever it is. And then as you continue to excel in an area, then a lot of times we start to build more pressure from ourselves, or parental pressure or placing expectations, so really just getting her to kind of pause, and you know if everybody's saying, oh, great job, and you know, but really being like, well, do you enjoy it? You know there's a difference between continuing when you absolutely do not enjoy it anymore, or you just and sometimes that happens. But there's a difference between enjoying it but choosing, choosing not to continue doing it because of the expectations. There's a huge difference.

Speaker 2: 46:06

So I think asking her okay, well, what's your why? Why did you start? Why did you start this in the first place? Remember when you started? Going back to your, why is so powerful? I do it with athletes all the time, like, no matter how long we've been working, you know, I just I constantly challenge them to go back to their why. Why did you start doing in the first place? Why do you enjoy doing it? Um, it's, that's, that's something that I would really recommend. Um, try doing, try doing it.

Speaker 1: 46:38

And everyone on this call has access to the fearless warrior program. So Carly is learning our program as well. Laurie, you could simply just say hey, let's revisit module three together. That's your why. That would be amazing.

Speaker 3: 46:50

Okay.

Speaker 1: 46:51

I know, I bet it didn't. Laurie Did that help.

Speaker 3: 46:53

Yeah, that, yeah, that helps. It's just one of those. I think I'm trying to figure out my tips and tricks and like how to interact with them and change our discussions and all of that. And like, like our softball player, I always say do you love it? You know, do you still like doing it? Because we can be happy one way or another. It doesn't have to be like if you don't want to do it anymore, that's fine, wonderful, we can have our weekends back and we're not traveling and we're not paying all this wonderful, fine. Um, if you still want to do it, great, it's all about. Let's just have it be family time. But it's more like how I navigate her self-imposed, you know thought process and I'm trying to figure out what's going on up here to you know, navigate that, and so, yeah, I'm trying to figure out what's going on up here to you know, navigate that, and so, yeah, I'm trying to figure it out.

Speaker 1: 47:46

You're doing great, you're showing up, you're here, you're, you're trying and and you know your daughter best too and the more that you can just get curious. I think so often we forget too is that we were in these environments and we want to push and so, um, I know you're probably already doing this, but the more you can have these conversations, you know, at a coffee shop or in the drive-through of dinner, or, you know, at the dinner table, when, when they're not in, that softball environment is huge and just really playing dumb sometimes and getting curious and saying, really, is that really how you think? Or, well, I'm curious, what makes you think that? And scale of one to tens have become my favorite tool ever as a coach. So think of a scale of one to ten yeah, one ten.

Speaker 3: 48:27

Okay, that's a good thought process and stuff. Yeah, I like that. I just asked her the other night like well, how do you expect that to turn out like what's your, what's your thought? How is this going to look? Please explain that to me. So I like that one. That's a new technique.

Speaker 1: 48:46

Love, love and curiosity. I'm working on that too, as a coach and as a parent.

Speaker 3: 48:52

That's fun, thank you.

Speaker 1: 48:54

Yeah, I think we have time for for one more, if anyone wants to, to hop on quick or even in the chat. Don't feel like you have to unmute. If you want to type something in the chat, we will support you in the chat as well. Let me ask this, um, for Carly's sake and for my sake. This is so fun we love. I love collaborating and getting different perspectives. I took notes tonight, um, I'm going to be posting some in the Facebook group as well, but I would love to know what's something that you wrote down what? What has been your biggest takeaway, um, from this training tonight? And everyone can pop that in the chat and I will mute, and so you guys don't hear my keyboard and I will type mine as well. What was your biggest takeaway?

Speaker 2: 49:35

We'd love to know I love that Praise the process I love that I put self-awareness.

Speaker 3: 49:41

It's like one of my biggest takeaways.

Speaker 2: 49:45

Yeah, I love that too. I always say I think that, um, one of the biggest reasons why I'm so passionate about what I do is a lot of the skills that I teach we aren't taught in school. Um, you know, we're not taught how to deal with emotions, you know, we might say at younger levels in education, you know, oh, I'm feeling this today or I'm feeling that, but what happens when you start to age and you start to become an adult? Or you're in college and you experience really, really terrible stress for the first time. Or you know how to, how to handle anger, how to manage certain things, or we're not taught self-aware. Or you know how to, how to handle anger, how to manage certain things, or we're not taught self-awareness. You know, it's not a class that we take.

Speaker 2: 50:28

So why I love what I do is helping athletes learn stuff that they're just going to be able to apply to life. You know, at some point, no matter whether you end up becoming an Olympic athlete, whoever you are, you're going to hang it up, you're going to retire. Um, so it's, it's being able to carry this stuff with you, uh, throughout life. Um, so, yeah, I love that. You said self-awareness. It's, it's the number one thing with mental skills, so awesome.

Speaker 1: 50:56

Very cool. So I just want to say thank you guys so much, um, for hanging out and growing the mental game. I know I say that a lot. When you guys grow the mental game, there really is no right or wrong way to do this. It's simply showing up, taking action, getting curious and creating that awareness, and you guys did that tonight. So thank you guys for being here. This was awesome.

Speaker 2: 51:17

Yeah, thank you guys so much and thank you for participating in this. You're a great group, hopefully you guys so much, and thank you for participating.

Speaker 1: 51:30

Thank you guys. Thank you, Coach Carly.