Not Another Footie Podcast
Episode 40: Premier League relegation, how Tottenham fans feel about the Man City game and rating Tottenham's Signings.
Welcome to episode forty of the Not Another Footie Podcast. This week's guests are Andrew Fox and Conor Brand. We spoke about the teams that have been relegated from the Premier League and the low point tally that they generated. We also discussed our feelings towards potentially helping Arsenal win the league as Tottenham fans. Finally, we rated the signings that Tottenham have made this season.
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Welcome to episode forty of the Not Another Footie Podcast. This week's guests are Andrew Fox and Conor Brand. We spoke about the teams that have been relegated from the Premier League and the low point tally that they generated. We also discussed our feelings towards potentially helping Arsenal win the league as Tottenham fans. Finally, we rated the signings that Tottenham have made this season.
Follow us:
https://www.instagram.com/justanotherfootiepodcast/
https://www.threads.net/@justanotherfootiepodcast
https://www.twitter.com/notanotherfooti
Welcome to this week's episode of Not Another Footy Podcast, the football podcast that brings football conversation away from online back to in person. I'm your host, ben. My guests this week are Andrew and Connor. How are we doing, boys?
Speaker 3:All good, all good Pleasure as always to be back and yeah, I'm also very well filled with trepidation at the moment as a Spurs fan this week.
Speaker 1:To start with, we will always start with a quickfire questions. So, as it's coming up, what is your favourite Champions League final?
Speaker 3:There's two Champions League finals which immediately spring to mind as being two classics that are up there as my favourites as a Spurs fan. The Spurs-Liverpool final was not exactly a great. Just the prestige of being involved in the tournament itself was a cool feeling. But obviously the final was really disappointing with the whole Soko handball and the way it went down. But I'd say the final which stands out the most would have to be the Liverpool AC Milan final, where Liverpool pulled off that remarkable comeback to supersede Milan and to come back from I think it was what was it? 3-1 down or 3-0 down at half-time and they ended up coming back and winning the game on penalties, which was, yeah, it was remarkable. And it was that classic Steven Gerrard kind of just pulling Liverpool, you know, out from the quagmire they were in and just kind of winning them that trophy on his own. It was brilliant. So, yeah, that one's up there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to be honest, I think you've hit it spot on, but I mean yes of course you've got the pleasure as a Spurs fan of in the final, but obviously the way that it all went down it was the perfect opportunity against Liverpool but we just didn't pull through on the day. But in terms of an unforgettable Champions League final, I would tend to agree the 3-3 for the reasons that Connor has sort of said. I mean, gerrard was captain supreme on the day, really rallied the troops and got them through and to take it away to penalties and get through it was a classic.
Speaker 1:I was going to go for the 2005. The only one I would probably mention as well is maybe the 2008 one between Chelsea and United. I felt like Chelsea and United at that point they were really in their pomp. Ronaldo was on his peak, he scored, obviously, and then, obviously, the infamous John Terry miss, which everyone remembers, and I feel like it was a time where it wasn't usual for an all-Premier League clash. I think it was like the first time in a long time where it had been whatever maybe to be an all-Premier League clash. I mean, now we're quite accustomed to Premier League teams getting that far, but them two in the final and it was a really close game.
Speaker 1:But yeah, the AC Milan-Liverpool. I have such memories as a kid watching it and I've talked about it recently. If you look at now, you look at the team sheets, you look at that Milan team compared to the Liverpool team, you wonder how that happens. Milan we said it a couple of weeks ago is probably the biggest bottle job in the final in Milan's part. To go 3-0 up, be that comfortable and then lose it the player you could imagine right now would be a great manager.
Speaker 2:Someone it, the player you could imagine right now would be a great manager, someone who came out immediately to me, but on the same principle, when I think about Captain Supremo, someone that demands respect is somebody that is not always like that certainly in the modern game.
Speaker 2:But Luka Modric, I think, just by the example of conditioning, by the way that he has led every team pretty much, that he's played for the respect that other players have for him, his technical ability, his tactical ability. When I've heard him talk, he brings intelligence and intellect to the conversation. He's very well spoken, I think yeah, probably I'd go for.
Speaker 1:Luka.
Speaker 3:Motric. Yeah, I think that's a good shout. I think that's a really good shout. And, on a similar note, I think Tony K a good shout. I think that's a really good shout. And on a similar note, I think Tony Kroos has got to be in the debate as well, just because of the fact that he's still starting every game for Madrid At you know, what is he the age of, at the age of 34, still starting every game at the highest level, playing almost every game every season. There's clearly an element of not just I mean, obviously fitness plays a big part and physical wellness of that player and how they look after themselves. But you know, as a player playing at that age, you can't just throw yourself into every tackle. You have to be very intelligent and clever about how you play the game. And the fact that he clearly has that longevity as a player and he's I mean, he's almost playing as good as he's ever played, I think that says a lot. So yeah, I'd go for Tony Kroos.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've also gone for a sentiment-filled maybe not in the same class as ability-wise, but I think he will be a good manager. And I've heard comments about him wanting to understand the game better, but I think he will be a good manager. I've heard comments about him wanting to understand the game better. That's Pierre Hoiberg. I think Mourinho made comments that he was really impressed with how he really wanted to know more about tactical things. I think he possesses that leadership quality. Even though he's not a great I wouldn't say he's a great leader. He possesses some sort of presence and I can imagine he would expect a standard set of his team. So I can imagine he will go into some sort of coaching. He definitely won't be like a pundit. I can imagine he will be a coach of some sort when he finishes his career. The skill you don't think is that impressive.
Speaker 3:I'd go with the rainbow flick. At face value, it looks like a great skill. It's one of the coolest ones when you pull it off, but rarely do any players actually ever pull it off in in a real game, um, and even if they do, they tend to just knock it over the player and then it like takes you know, a certain amount of time for it to get back down to their feet. So by that time the defenders caught themselves up anyway. Yeah, it's just pretty useless in my eyes. Bounces as opposed to controlled, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I went back heel. I just personally don't find it that impressive. When a player does a back heel, sometimes it looks really unnecessary as well. I mean, I understand it gets you out of certain situations and I can understand how it can look, but for me it just never looks that great. It's great, I feel that great it's, it's great. You, I don't know. I feel like anyone can do it as well. It's not like a, a skill that is set to certain players, like you know. If I take your example, connor, I would say only certain players can probably do a rainbow fit quite successfully back here. I feel like you know you would see emerson morale do it and you can't be that impressed.
Speaker 2:The stupidest skill I've ever seen in my life is that fucking excuse me, the Anthony where he ran around in a circle. What was that about?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's true. What was he?
Speaker 2:doing with that. Let me just get the ball run around in a circle and carry on. What was that about?
Speaker 3:The pirouette. Scott Parker was doing that 10 years ago.
Speaker 1:I know, I know right. Okay, all right, the relegation is pretty much sealed now. Obviously, sheffield United last week were relegated. This week Burnley were relegated after a defeat to Spurs, and Lucena are basically on the verge of relegation. It's a real, in theory, goal difference of 12 goals. It'd be very unlikely for that swing to happen. First of all, we'll start with Burnley. They've won just won five games all season, only two of them in the last 19, and have occupied the spot in relegation for pretty much the duration of the season, which is a shame. After the company obviously took charge, won the division, they had 101 points last year, but their return to the Premier League has not been very good. Are you disappointed by Burnley? I mean for me. I know we'll talk about predictions in a few weeks time, but at the beginning of the season I would put them in downs. The ones are going to overachieve. I actually said they would probably finish near the mid-table, but they have really just not done very well at all.
Speaker 2:I think when we talk about Burnley, you can see everything the company's trying to do. You can see the kind of playing up at the back that he's trying to instill into the play. Obviously he put that in in the season before in the championship. But obviously there is a distinct difference in quality when you step up to the Premier League and I think sometimes you need to sort of realise and understand actually the capability of the players on the pitch.
Speaker 2:I think that Burnley have been quite unlucky at times. I think actually they played quite good football. They played, as I say, out from the back, they tried to do the right things. But it is just a consistent theme throughout the season again and again and again and again. A stupid error at the back where they pass it to the wrong player, the keeper kicks it to the opposition, whatever it might be, and it just, you know, you give themselves a mountain to climb. It becomes an impossible challenge for them. You know, like you, ben, I sort of had them at the beginning of the season as probably the ones to stay up and actually do it with relative style as well, and I think that they have tried to do that. But you know when you do things over and over again and it just doesn't work. At some point you have to, you know, understand the environment in which you're playing and, you know, change things up a little bit, and you know know, when just to kick the ball out, get out of the pitch.
Speaker 2:You know too many mistakes throughout the season and it all seems to centre around the same thing, as it's playing out from the back.
Speaker 1:I mean, do you feel he's got a lot of questions to answer? I know it's his second season in management and I know in the Premier League and obviously he wants to set them out that way and, like Andrew said, it has cost him a lot of goals, just even just playing out the back. We saw it against Spurs. If it was a better team than Spurs, they would have lost by a lot more on Saturday.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't say he's got a lot of questions to answer. I think that Burnley have come into the Premier League and I think it's important to take it into context that moving up from getting promoted from the Championship to the Premier League is probably the biggest step up of getting promoted to any league. The golfing class is so great that the odds are always stacked against any team that comes up from the championship. Um and Burnley, you know they've been a bit disappointing in terms of.
Speaker 3:You know they absolutely dominated the championship last season um so I think everyone expected them to, you know, do quite well coming into this season. But there's a few factors. I mean they lost a few players coming into it. I think Nathan Teller is a good example. He was a big part of their squad last year. So, yeah, they've lost a few players and they probably had a bit of, you know, bad luck go their way as well, which you kind of need in any league.
Speaker 3:So I kind of rate Kompany he's been very, you know, he's got his philosophy and he's stuck to it. And the fact that Burnley have stuck with him, I think is even better. You know, it says a lot about their chairman and the fact that they're willing to stick by him. So maybe it's kind of just a learning experience for him and I think he's still got the ability to be a really good manager and hopefully they come back up next season season. But I don't think it's embarrassing or anything to be ashamed of that they're getting relegated. It's a very hard thing to do to stay in the Premier League, which is why the teams that have done it it's just an incredible achievement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and obviously Luton are pretty much going to lose. Luton, I would argue that probably out of the three promoters teams probably gave it the best shots. But they only won once in 16 Premier League matches and picking up 11 points over a six game run in January and February, which temporarily lifted them out, but after that they dropped back after 10 out of 13 defeats. So they went through a bit of a stage where they might have revived it and now obviously they're in the you know, the bottom three and likely to be relegated. But should Robert on the opposite? I mean obviously our company should be asking questions. I don't. I'm definitely sure that Robert Edwards deserves a lot of credit. Connor, you know Luton had the lowest budget. They very much. Luton had the lowest budget. They very much, from the beginning of the season, were going to stick with our budget. We're not going to overspend, like maybe Burnley have arguably done, and they've brought in players and I would say without players like Ross Barkley they probably would have been even further down the bottom.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, I think Rob Edwards has done a fantastic job. Luton were by far the most competitive team out of all the ones that got promoted last season, so kudos to them. And yeah, I think they've shown this season that you've got to be quite careful about underestimating certain teams. Any team that's capable of getting promoted to the Premier League clearly has talented players, and Luton, at times this season, have shown that they are no pushovers and and yeah, in certain games this season they were a really, really tough opponent and a force to be reckoned with, and they have their own certain style, which is not always easy on the eye. But, like you said, bringing in Ross Barkley definitely added a bit of suave-ness to the midfield. So, yeah, they gave it a good shot. I think Lewin were definitely the most impressive out of all three teams and I think they'll give it a good go again next season at coming back up. Hopefully they do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean obviously with the we talk about the three promoters' sides altogether. You know, the second time in Premier League history that all three promoters' sides have gone straight back down. And it's also interesting as well that with the games ago the trio have 66 points between them, which is actually the lowest ever for a promoted trio, and that's by at least 10 points when Sunderland, birmingham and Derby were down 07-08. So in that respect it's a little bit worrying maybe. But then you look at the championship this season where the team's having, you know, four teams having 90, three teams having 90 plus points. Should we worry about the quality now?
Speaker 1:You know I think Conor, you referenced it you know it is so hard to jump from the Championship to the Premier League. Obviously we've got Leicester coming back who have been a Premier League team for quite a long time and still had a lot of the squad. It should be a really interesting challenge. But I've thought throughout it's how interesting it is that down below that they've generated so little points and obviously got the best ever championship season. So I wonder, should we be worried that the Premier League is making the further gap between the championship or is it just the fluky season, where that's the way it's worked out listen.
Speaker 2:As you know, connor rightly said, the gap championship to the premiership is, uh, you know it's huge. I think there is something to be said that when you look at the squads of sheffield united, of luton, um, of burnley, um, I don't think there was particularly, you know, apart from ross barkley, possibly a couple of couple of others, there was nobody really with Premier League experience in these teams. I think that obviously makes a big difference as well. When you look at the likes of Leicester, who are going to be returning to the Premier League now, they've got players in there that have played in the Premier League, that have been there week in, week out, and that obviously adds edge for sure.
Speaker 2:They've got the experience in that league and they know the pace at which it's working and running. You know I think Conor just said it right now as well you know I don't think that Burnley have got anything to be embarrassed by. You know they've given it a good shot, they've tried to play their football. I just think that you know. Possibly there's a learning curve to be had when you are consistently making the same mistakes. But nevertheless, luton gave a real good go of it. Obviously Sheffield United, I mean. Didn't they make history with the most amount of goals conceded in the Premier League? So we won't talk too much about them.
Speaker 1:More than 100 goals to concede in a season. I know, with Sheffield United as well, we talk about. They also sold their two best players right at the beginning of the season.
Speaker 2:But still 100 goals. It's quite something. No, absolutely, um, but I think that you know, we see it and we've seen it in seasons gone by in the not too distant past, where teams come up from the championship, if you can get a bit of quality primarily play a couple of players in with experience that makes a big difference to uh, you know, to the balance of the squad and obviously sets the footing moving forward in terms of, as I say, that, uh, that level of competitiveness of the squad and obviously this sets the footing moving forward in terms of, as I say, that level of competitiveness of the team overall. Three teams going down at the moment they've been unfortunate in that I just don't think they've had that level of experience in their squad and I think that's pretty telling, especially in a season where you think that you've got a combined trio with the lowest points tally ever in the Premier League.
Speaker 1:So Tottenham man City game obviously is going to be played tomorrow. Obviously there's been a lot of stuff we've spoken about as Spurs fans. It's been quite a lot in the drama between where Spurs sit with this obviously, and Pastor Coghlan has obviously spoken about it and he said he'll never understand if someone wants their own team to lose ahead of the games. Obviously, a win or draw for Spurs against City could potentially hand the Premier League title to Arsenal. There's a sizable majority of the fan base that do not want Spurs to win the game.
Speaker 1:Postacogu said to me I don't understand it, I never will. I understand rivalry. I was part of one of the biggest ones in the world in the last couple of years with Celtic and Rangers. I've never and will never understand if someone wants their own team to lose. I mean, I first want to ask I think I know the answers to this where you sit and how you want to support tomorrow's game, as we're all Spurs fans. It's quite. I thought it was an interesting one.
Speaker 1:And then let's talk about what Pastor Coghley said and, realistically, where he's coming from, because I can see where he's coming from and for me I've been on the fence. I have been on the fence. At one point I was really sure, no matter what I was supposed to win. When that top four for me, when top four has become a least likely possibility, I'm less bothered by it. But for me as a fan, I can't go that far really wanting my team to lose. That's just me. I just want to see where you boys are at on this issue. I sort of agree with that.
Speaker 2:One of those things me as a person, like competition and the drive to will to win is is is always there, um, and I don't think I could ever come to want my team to lose. But there is a difference between saying you want your teams to lose and you know, should the inevitable happen and city beat spurs and secure the title, you know at the cost of us and not winning the league, you're not going to be too disappointed. Are you To go as far as to say I want us to lose? I find that very difficult.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just to add to that, it's clear that Spurs and Arsenal rivalry is one of the most heated rivalries in football. So when you do get the chance to deny your rival the chance of winning something there's, it's arguably as good a feeling as winning something, sometimes, especially with spurs and arsenal. And and what arsenal fans don't really seem to understand as much because, you know, in previous years they've had a more successful era, um is that they've had that success and Spurs haven't experienced that success as much. So it's harder for them to understand why we would not care as much about, you know, gaining fourth place, especially when we've had that before and it hasn't really materialized into anything. But the one thing I wanted to touch on the most is I personally I don't want us I don't really, I didn't really want us to get Champions League places just because I feel like it.
Speaker 3:For for Ange-Poster Coglou and his evolution at Spurs, and I as a manager, I see him as a long-term solution to the problems that we've had and I don't think one season is going to be enough for him to fix all of the problems that Spurs have. You need multiple transfer windows, like Arteta has shown. The thing that impresses me the most is that Ange has this winning mentality and it's a winner all costs mentality, and he can't understand, from Spurs fans perspective, why we would be interested in losing a game, because for him he is just such an out and out winner that there is no other option apart from winning, which as a.
Speaker 3:Spurs fan. I absolutely love so. Whilst I personally don't care too much about the Champions League you know, this season in particular, if we do go and get Champions League, the fact that we've got Anja at the helm gives me so much confidence and belief that, even though I don't want it and I don't think we're capable of doing much in it, the fact that he's our manager makes a huge difference to the fact that, if we do get it, I'll be a lot more satisfied and content about it.
Speaker 1:I think you two have summed it up really well, really well.
Speaker 1:Where Spurs fans are at and I think someone said it as well, I saw online was like you're never going to remember who was fourth, but you, you'll remember that Arsenal won it at Spurs' expense. That will be remembered and as Spurs, as we know, we never hear the end of it, we still hear it. We won the league at White Hart Lane. We still hear that and it's going to be on that similar vein, isn't it? But I've always stayed with Tottenham and I thought you know it's to the end of the season and because in my eyes there isn't that much to play for, we probably should have Europa League next year. But I thought we'd first of all look at the signings that we've made this year and maybe rate them and see where we felt them. Obviously, we signed, you know, quite a lot. Quite a few players and key positions were addressed. Not all, but some were, and I think, going into the season, personally, goalkeeper and centre-back was the key positions that needed to be addressed and they were, and obviously we've got some other players as well. So obviously, brennan Johnson, james Madsen, mickey van der Veen, radu Dragerson, vicario Manuel Solomon, timo Werner. I will put Valise as well because he did sign, but I don't think we should rate him too much because we haven't seen enough of him to say much. But I thought we'd just go through and I'll give a score out of 10 and maybe a little background to why you've given those scores, um, of how you'd rate the signings as of now. So I thought let's start with someone who was signed towards the end of august. Brennan johnson obviously came in towards the right at the end he was. We pursued him for quite a while, um. He's had a decent first season.
Speaker 1:I think there's been mixed reviews from the fans. I think he's had periods where he's been really good. I think at the start of the calendar year he was in probably the best form he was. But recently I think he's been a characteristic of the team recently and the loss of confidence. So first of all I'll kick off and I've given him a 6 out of 10. I think he's been OK. I also think with Brendan Johnson he's not the finished article. There's got so much more to come from him. I can see potential, but as of now I think he's just been OK. What do you think, boys?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think Johnson six out of ten is probably pretty spot on, I think, the things that I like about Johnson. There are moments in which he seems to have a lot of tenacity when we're off the ball and he's really trying to close down and create something to get the ball back. I think that he's shown a bit of tenacity there. Also, confidence is a huge thing with Johnson. With the looks of it, like with any player, Johnson with confidence, he starts to run at players and he looks like he can do something. He's got good delivery, he works the ball across the goal, but he is definitely not the finished article at the moment. He's young enough, however, to keep improving and to keep going and I think that he will come good for Spurs. He's got very good attributes and, you know, I think he'll come good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you've both hit the nail on the head. Six out of ten, I think that's the perfect score for Brennan. Just echoing what you said, I think he's got so much ability, which I think is why it frustrates Spurs fans so much Sometimes when you see him in a one-on-one position. He's just got so much pace to burn, but he just his decision-making or he just doesn't quite execute it right. I do like brennan and I really want him to do well, but my gut tells me that I don't think he's going to be a success spurs, but I might. I might be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. It's just going to be difficult to see how we recuperate 50 million for him or how he really lives up to that that, that price tag that we bought him for james madison is the next one I thought we'd talk about.
Speaker 1:For me it's a tale of two halves, with him Incredible start. I think some people even said in our group that he could be the signing of the season. He certainly was a player that we missed in terms of that creativity. I mean, hanna has had that sort of creativity since Ericsson. So he certainly missed that and he was bringing that to the team. So he certainly missed that and he was bringing that to the team. Obviously he's come back from injury and I would say maybe two games he's had a decent time, I don't think and maybe one of them being a villa. I think that's again, it is kind of like how Spurs' second half of the season has been. I've given him a 7 out of 10 because I think the amount he produced in the first half was good and I still believe he's a good player and I still glimpses of it in the second half. It's just. I think it's just that he kind of needs a reset, like the rest of the team. So I gave a 7 out of 10.
Speaker 2:Again, I think you hit it spot on 7 out of 10. Maddison has got all the ability. He's a quality quality player but at the end of the day you need to have the balance around you to bring that quality out. I think you had a balance between Bissouma and Sarr. Sarr was sort of box to box and Bissouma's composure sort of allowed that to happen. He was well positioned. Come off the back of the AFCON. Going into January, february time, maddison obviously was injured. He had an injury layoff was it two or three months? He was out. Then obviously when he came back he never looked like the same player. But I think a large part of that has to do with Son playing up front plus the lack of balance in midfield.
Speaker 1:You sort of see him trying to do everything be that coming deep to get the ball sprayed about pressing.
Speaker 2:He's trying to take it all on himself and it's not really working. Nevertheless, that first half of the season he showed a lot of promise. We've all seen what he can do. You know, at Leicester previously he's got bags of ability and in a more settled team, more settled squad, I think that he will be a great player for us.
Speaker 3:I've been a bit harsh with my score. I've given him a 6.5. Although on reflection I do feel that maybe that's a bit harsh because he did have such a great first half of the season. He was probably one of our top three players and probably would have easily given him a very high rating at that point in the season. But yeah, I think Andrew touched on it quite well. He's trying to overcompensate for the fact that we don't have the right balance in our squad right now and he's trying to overdo it and do too much. And you could just see in the latter half of the season he doesn't have that. We, as we as a team, will have been struggling a lot more and has, because of that, tried to take on too much, not quite worked and it's clearly suffering because of it.
Speaker 3:It's confidence yeah, I do, I do love matters. I also part of me feels like he could be a bit more his. He could. He's a bit lightweight. I find, you know, when I compare him to someone like odegaard who is, you know, a good comparison in that they play quite similar positions and they both, like, dictate the flow of the game I'd say his pressing is no way near Odegaard's level. When I see Maddison pressing one of our teams that we're playing against, he doesn't really seem to be anywhere near as effective as some other players in that position. I think that's something which he could definitely work on and get better at. I'm hoping next season he kind of rebuilds and comes back with the confidence that he showed at the start of the season.
Speaker 1:Mickey van der Ven for me has been a top top signing. Obviously it's a shame he had that injury which really affected us in the centre-back. We had that real problem with when it was him and Romero both out and even him. We missed that left-sided centre-back. The pace is just unbelievable. But I mean recently, I don't know about you boys, I'm just impressed technically. I didn't realise how technically good he is. I mean, if you look at that second goal where he moves his body into that position and to get the finish is remarkable.
Speaker 1:So I've gone strong here. I've gone for a 10 because at the moment the only game he really disappointed me was Arsenal. There was this niggling feeling in the second goal. I thought he. But I've gone 10 because I feel like every time I've seen him he's been our top performing player, he's our top defender and I think without him he's one of the players. Without him it makes a big difference to the team. But that's me. I've gone strong. What about you guys?
Speaker 2:I think he's for sure the signing of the season for us. He's come in and it gives you, I mean, what Jan Vertonghen vibes when he came in almost Jan Vertonghen vibes when he came in the quality in which he has on the ball as well as positional play, but the speed is something else that just separates him from everything In a world where we play a very high line and teams get in behind us the amount of times that he must have saved us is countless With his speed, getting back and covering for everyone around him, left, right doesn't matter, he's just there.
Speaker 2:The technical side of his play I think was apparent from the beginning Something as simple.
Speaker 2:going to the games, one of the things I always observe is you know when we have the ball and passing across the defence into midfield or what have you? The position of the ball that sort of half a yard in front of the players they're running onto it as opposed to stopping their run to take the ball forward is quite telling. And from the beginning it's one thing that I said to James or I'll go with. You know, this guy just plays it exactly in the right area every single time, the right weight of ball, just in front of the players they're running on to it. There's no delay in the press and how we build up. He just gets it right each and every time. He's been an absolute breath of fresh air and as much as I'd love to give him a 10 out of 10, I'm going to go for a nine, nine and a half out of 10, only because in a team that just leaks goals left, right and center, it's um, you know it's, it's it's hard to give anyone.
Speaker 2:You know a 10 out of 10 when it comes to our defense, but for sure it goes without saying he has been the signing of the season for us. He has presence, he is technically gifted. I think that we'll see against City. I think you'll see that he starts at left-back. I think probably he's just talked himself into playing left-back against City With that goal and the way that he took it and opening his body and just caressing the ball in the back corner. He's a class act.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I couldn't agree more. He's by far the signing of the season for Spurs. He's an absolute Rolls Royce of a player. Overall he's been absolutely incredible. Every part of his game has been brilliant. You can just see from Romero the way Romero's been this season. Having that centre-back partner next to him gives him so much assurance as well to go out and not try and overplay or over-tackle and over-commit like he loves to. And I think our defense as a whole is just he, yeah, he's, he's, he's really stepped up massively. So, yeah, I I think 10 is a bit generous because that implies that he's been absolutely flawless, and I wouldn't say he's been absolutely flawless.
Speaker 1:I went strong, I went strong yeah uh, so I'd give him a nine.
Speaker 3:I think nine is, I think. I think he's been a very deserving nine out of 10. Ficario obviously goalkeeper was. He was one of our.
Speaker 1:I think it's been a very deserving nine out of ten. Ficaria, obviously goalkeeper. He was one of our first signings Goalkeeper. Obviously, having to face Hugo Lloris was obviously going to be big shoes to fill. I think he also had a really impressive start. I think his shot and I still believe his shot-staving ability has really been the highlight for me. I think there was a percentage at one point he had the biggest save percentage in the Premier League.
Speaker 1:Obviously, recently he's lost a little bit of confidence. In the corner thing I've been harsh at times. I think people have been harsh on him, but clearly you've seen that as a little bit of weakness. But again I forgive him because of his age and I think again the team itself, I think no one in the team has had real confidence. So I went, I nailed Dunne on an 8, 7.58. That's where I've gone with him because I think he also at countless times saved us a lot with some extraordinary saves. You know right at the beginning of the season, but I think you know towards the end is obviously I don't think any shot in particular that he should have saved. I feel like it's just some of those ones we can see from set pieces. He's been questioned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would have gone for an 8 out of 10 for Vicario. I think that, beyond the shot-stopping ability, which he's got in abundance, his reactions, his reflexes, his quality you can see the quality that he possesses. The other thing that I like about him very greatly we had hugo lorison goal before he was a captain of the club, yet I don't think he was particularly commanding. You know, you never heard him like sort of have the grip between his teeth, screaming and shouting or whatever. And you know vicario, when we score, running out the box, like you know, jumping around, you know he, he wants it, you know he's a winner, he wants it.
Speaker 2:Um, and he is, you know, very commanding in his uh, you know, vocal output. Let's say to the defense and I think that's a really, really important characteristic of a goalkeeper they need to be talking, they need to be shouting, they need to be controlling what's in front of them. Um, and certainly being at the games watching vicario, he's got that in abundance. Um, I think that he needs to to wise up. Obviously, you know, teams have sort of found him out on the corners and when you get a man standing in front of him, it causes a problem, but equally I don't think that's solely Vakaria's fault.
Speaker 2:I think that we haven't been quick enough to recognise that this is happening and sticking somebody in between the two of them and actually counteracting that. It has been a massive frustration. I said it time and time again Whenever we have an opposing corner coming into the box, we are pretty zonal in the way that we play. But more than that, we just don't seem to wake up to the fact that teams are pinning men on Vicario with a physical presence, backing in, pushing around, and we don't put someone in the mix there to counteract that. That was really frustrating. So I think definitely it's an area of his game that he needs to improve on coming out and catching the ball and being commanding that respect. But I don't think that we have necessarily helped him in that process either. Certainly a player with again bags of ability, incredible shot stopper and I think that he will be a long-term keeper for Spurs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd give him our definitely say he's our second best signing this summer. Vicario, I think there were a lot of question marks when we first brought him in as to whether he would be able to kind of fill the shoes that not necessarily that Lloris had left, but the ones that we wanted him to fill, or the gloves filling the gloves instead rather than the shoes. I'd say one of the biggest question marks around him when he first joined, and because we were linked to David Ryer at at the time was how good he would be playing with his feet as well. Um, and whilst I wouldn't say he's, you know, top, top level playing with his feet, he's definitely surprised or surpassed my expectations as to what I thought he would be capable of. I think anytime the ball has gone to his feet, he's very reassured.
Speaker 3:I've never felt like he's going to make a mistake. In fact, I think he's one of the only keepers who hasn't really made, you know, an obvious, glaring mistake with his feet, which is definitely testament to him and his ability as a keeper, and then, obviously, all the other things that both of you have touched on. His shot stopping is just incredible. It does need a bit of work on really commanding his area and coming out for crosses, because he has the stature to be able to do that. But overall, I think he's been brilliant, superb, and it makes such a difference when, as a defender, you have a keeper that you rely on, that you trust behind you, and when Lloris was there and you just knew that he was always capable of giving a goal away and making a huge error, it just doesn't fill you with confidence as a defender. So, yeah, vicario has been been amazing. I give him 8 out of 10.
Speaker 1:Timo Werner. I mean, obviously Timo Werner came in as a loan. I think it was a good deal at the time to bring him in to give us that extra bit of pace down the wing. Obviously it was a bit of a surprise when it happened. Obviously everyone thinks about his time in Chelsea, wants him to do better. It's a real mixed bag again really. For me there's been moments. Positionally he's been very good. He's always been a threat with his pace, but that final ball, which to me was very disappointing at times and it's a shame for him that he ended this season. It will be interesting what we view as him in the summer when we do make it permanent or not. I think he would be a great squad addition, but I'd hope that we'd still be looking for someone better than him to play in that position. So I gave him a 6 out of 10.
Speaker 2:Timo Werner. What to say about Timo Werner? I personally, you know, controversially or not I find him an incredibly frustrating player. Again, alluding to the times I'm at the game and I'm watching Werner you know whether this is right or wrong to say he doesn't seem like a part of the team per se. You know, before the game, when they're having the huddle, they're getting together and you know we'd like, really like, riling each other up to go and win a game. Werner's always standing by himself by the touchline. It's obviously a personal thing that he does, fair enough, but he always feels somewhat distant to the team. When I'm watching him On match of the day, they'll show that one or two crosses he'll whip in across the box, but what they don't show is the other 80 minutes where he's just for me, pretty non-existent, not making the runs where he should. I find him, as I say, personally a very frustrating player.
Speaker 3:I think that's a good, it's a very good word to describe Timo. He's a very frustrating player. He's got so much ability, he has raw pace, and I do think he gets a lot of unfair criticism as well, because I can't think of many wingers that we've had recently who are so good at being a man. But the problem with timo is he's incredible at being the man which he can't put across in to save his life. It's whatever his final ball is. That's where he really struggles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um so I do I have a.
Speaker 3:I have a soft spot for him. I do like him. I want him to do well because he's clearly a nice guy and he enjoys being part of the squad. You can see that I don't think he's good enough and I don't think I think if Spurs want to achieve, you know, progression, I don't think we should be aiming for players like Werner, so I hope we don't sign him.
Speaker 1:Personally, I think he's had a 6.5 season and I think he's a 6.5 player as well. I'm going to do the last two together because I feel like both of them have played glimpses of football and it's quite hard to judge them. We have seen them a few games, so more than the least to judge. So Manuel Solomon and Radu Dragoson, obviously both bought for separate reasons. Solomon seems more of a cover and he was playing the first few games of the season and obviously had a horrendous injury at the end of the season. There's talks that he might not even be a Spurs player next year.
Speaker 1:Radu Dragosin has obviously started, I think, one game he started and he's come on a few games. And there's one game that he really I was like, you know the Everton away game and he almost gave away two penalties. So it hasn't filled me with loads of confidence. But I understand we bought Dragerson for a reason he is cover and probably next season, with European football next year, let's say he probably will play a lot more minutes. So I gave him a five and I gave Manuel Solomon a four. I think the only game I can remember he did okay in was the Burnley game and he played a really good ball to Son for one of the goals. Maybe we've been harsh because we haven't seen enough of him, but from what we did see, we did see a little bit of him.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Solomon is a difficult one to talk about because he's not really had a lot of game time, certainly for two-thirds of the season. He's been injured, hasn't he? For quite a long period. Yeah, on that basis, maybe a 5 out of 10. I think, to be fair to him. I think he's someone that shows energy when he is there and he shows a willingness and he tries, and you know somebody that wears a heartless sleeve and goes for it. Dragosyn, yeah, he's concerned me somewhat. I go back to what I was saying before about Van de Ven that ability to pass the ball that half a yard in front of someone at every pass that I see Dragosin make is like the opposite.
Speaker 2:It's a half a yard behind. Again, it's being unfair. The Premier League coming to the Premier League, especially as a young player, like hitting the ground running, is very difficult. He's young, he's got time. Dragosin, when we were signing him there was a lot of talk about other clubs going after him as well. He was somebody that was in demand, so there's got to be a reason for that. He's clearly got attributes and qualities. A big, burly centre-back has a presence about him. I just don't think he's necessarily shown what he can do, but going into next year he's somebody that can be that star improvement as well. Pedro Porro last year wasn't necessarily the player that we expected him to be, but going into this year he's certainly improved on his defensive ability tenfold and obviously his ability on the ball. So drag us in. There's hope. He's got attributes to his play, but it's just sharpening up and understanding the Premier League and what it's about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I concur, really, dragosin, it's hard to judge both players given the limited amount of time that they've both played. But yeah, like Andrew said, the fellow Dragosin was highly touted and linked to Bayern Munich, had great stats before he came to Spurs. He had a couple of games and he got thrown in the deep end. In terms of our squad was quite thin at the time when he got thrown in. We'll have to wait and see what Dragos is like. Hopefully he's the player we want him to be and hopefully he's the player we want him to be.
Speaker 3:And Solomon, I did like what I saw from Solomon at the beginning of the season. He's clearly not the most you know, he doesn't have the most raw ability in the world in terms of raw pace and that sort of thing, and he is sort of a bit of a one-trick pony, kind of cutting inside from the left-hand side. However, he's quite an intelligent player. He links up with players quite well and we were playing some nice football when he was in the team. So I'd give him maybe a five and a half six out of 10. And Dragosin probably, given his cameos that weren't very good, probably gets a five out of 10, but hopefully both players can show a bit more next season, I think you know, over the balance judging by the score.
Speaker 1:we've, you know, a lot of transfer windows in the past. Spurs have done quite well. I think I've been quite impressed with who Ange has brought in. I think there is a clear change of direction, which I'm pleased about. So unpopular opinion round, so I give my guests an unpopular opinion that they have to debate. They have to agree or disagree with the statement. So the unpopular opinion this week is Mikel Arteta is a far better manager than Jürgen Klopp. I've got Connor to agree with it and I've got Andrew to disagree with it.
Speaker 2:I disagree and I would say that Klopp is a better manager on the whole than Arteta, and I think, say that Klopp is a better manager on the whole than Arteta, and I think that there's a few things, or multiple things, that come into this. One of the things that Klopp is very well known for is his ability to switch tactics and go with the phases of play in a game. He's very versatile. On that basis, I think that one of the criticisms of Arteta in certainly his early years at Arsenal was that he had a lot more rigidity to him. He was pretty inflexible and obviously Klopp, I think, has more to his game in that respect.
Speaker 2:Klopp has a proven track record everywhere that he's been. I mean, it's sort of unfair on Arteta because Arteta obviously hasn't really had such a diverse manager career, but I think when you look at the teams that klopp's managed and obviously taking a team like dortmund from, uh you know, a club that wasn't a challenging club to what they became, um, obviously that that really showed, uh, his ability to take a team forward and and take them into. You know something that is very competitive and title winning, um. Klopp is very well known for his ability to work with young players and develop them and bring them forward into greats, be they Mane, alexander-arnold.
Speaker 2:I mean, arteta has shown signs of this, but I think that Klopp has a demonstrable history of doing this man management as well. Klopp really works very closely with, uh, with his, his squad, his team. You see the, the passion, uh that he delivers and, you know, knows when to put an arm around the shoulder and really, you know, drive, drive that forward, um, and I think that arteta has, has has it, you know, more to learn in that respect. Um, so you know, know, on the whole, I think that Klopp, you know, with his attribute base, is a better manager than Arteta.
Speaker 1:Okay, thank you, Andrew. So, Conny, I've had a time to think about your counter arguments.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I'm arguing that Arteta. I think Arteta is a better manager to Klopp. I do think it's very close. However, I think Arteta definitely edges it to Klopp. I do think it's very close, however, I think Arteta definitely edges it. My main argument for this is that and I'm going to compare Klopp to when he first came to the Prem because I think it's more of a fair comparison, because Arteta's only been managing for five or six seasons, so it's only fair almost to judge Klopp on when he first joined Liverpool. And at the time when Klopp joined Liverpool, they weren't, you know, doing that exceptionally in the league. After his first season at Liverpool, I think they finished eighth in the league, whereas Arteta I believe he was a similar position, but the fact that he won the FA Cup in the first season was a huge. I think he took over mid-season. I think it was a huge feat for him to reach Not many managers.
Speaker 3:And I think another big factor in why I think Arteta is a better manager is not just because of when he first came in and what he managed to achieve, but how Arsenal have actually progressed as a team under Arteta. It's taken five or six seasons. I think we're in the fifth season actually know five or six seasons, I think, fifth, I think we're in the fifth season actually um, for him to really kind of get arsenal to, to the place that he wants them to be, uh, but they're now in a position where they are not just pushing city for the title. You know, for one season. It's now been two seasons which they've done it. Uh, you could argue that they should have really won it last season and they didn't. The only reason why they didn't win it was because of some injuries to key players like Saliba and having to play players like Rob Holding who, as you can see now, don't make up or don't form any part of Arteta's plans, form any part of Arteta's plans and this season they're still pushing for the title in what is arguably City's greatest ever team in terms of their talent and ability.
Speaker 3:So Arteta, to me, is a more superior manager. Arsenal are a more consistent team than Liverpool with their results. He's a more well-rounded coach, not just in terms of their attacking ability they play some of the best attacking football but, as you can see from this season, they also have the best defensive ability out of any team, keeping the most clean sheets. So he's clearly not just a one-dimensional coach with one philosophy, which is to attack exceptional attack. A coach with one philosophy, which is to attack.
Speaker 3:He's an all a well-rounded, well-balanced coach. Who? Who can coach at all aspects of the game. And just one more thing his ability to build a squad is incredible. I think. When you look at Klopp, I say that's one of his, maybe one of the things that he's not so good at compared to Arteta, in that Liverpool's squad has always kind of chopped and changed and he hasn't had that consistency that a good manager really wants, like Guardiola, for example, keeping consistent squad together with key players. Key players in Liverpool's team always seem to go here and there, whereas Arteta is clearly building a squad that wants to play for him and want to work under him, which is a big difference between him and Klopp, I'd say.
Speaker 1:I actually think, connor, your argument was very convincing and I'm actually giving you the 4-3 win. It was an extremely convincing argument. I actually think a lot of the points you point out is really interesting to debate, because you think Arteta probably had it all stacked against him. Klopp had a bit of pedigree If you actually look back at what Arteta's done. I know Liverpool as well. Klopp's done an amazing job at what Arteta has done and I think they're pushing City as hard, if not harder, than what Liverpool were. Obviously, arteta's got more to come. He still needs to win a major honour, but, yeah, I think I'm going to give you the win, okay. So therefore, corner, because you won, you get to choose whether to spin the wheel for the trivia game or to choose a trivia game of your choice.
Speaker 1:That's spinning the wheel Spinning the wheel now, and it has landed on Journeyman. Okay, so the way Journeyman works is I give you a player, I give you five clues about a player that has gone on a bit of a journey in their career. You each get a guess each round. So the person that gets the player the quickest wins. Okay, clue number one I started my career at Watford, ashley Young. You're correct. There we go. That's the full 10 points for you there, connor. Well done. I'll go through the other clues anyway.
Speaker 3:Couldn't have been anyone else in?
Speaker 1:my mind. So I started my career at Watford the next ones. I then signed for Aston Villa, where, in one season, only Fabregas had more assists than me. Man United then bought me for 17 million, where I made over 250 appearances for them. Fourth clue I then won the league with Conte at Inter. And the fifth clue was I now play for Everton. So well done, connor. Ten points for you there, and so 10 points for you there. And so, andrew, I mean this is the last show of the season, so thank you so much for joining me this season. It's been a real pleasure and, connor, I'll see you at the end of the season show.
Speaker 2:Thank you, boys, for joining me on this episode thank you very much for the season that we've had. Look forward to the next yeah, can't wait.
Speaker 3:Thanks, ben.