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Welcome back to another episode of the Never Been Promoted podcast and YouTube channel. Thank you for coming by and listening today. As you know, we're on a mission to create more entrepreneurs in this world, make them better at entrepreneurship and better at life. And on that journey, we bring on other people who have something to add that conversation, something you can learn from them. And today, I'm joined by Jordan Goldrich. He is, he's rich in gold. I don't know if you knew that. No. He's actually the founder and CEO of the Workplace Warrior Inc, and he's author of Workplace Warrior, and this is a a great little subtitle. It's people skills for the no bullshit executive. So, if you work for a company right now, you know there's lots of bullshit in executives, so maybe you should have them give him a call. But, Jordan, nice to meet you. Oh, it's great to be here. Thank you so much. Well, Melissa, I'm I'm glad you took the time. I know you, you have, lots of commitments in the world, and you're you're doing some really cool stuff. And I want and I wanna have this conversation around your your your, your company, you know, Workplace Warrior Inc, your book, and your own journey too, which I think is pretty pretty damn unique. So first of all, thanks for coming on, but maybe just set the stage, give us a little background on you, and, you know, in the Workplace Warrior.
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So, as as you said earlier, my company is called Workplace Warrior, and we specialize in coaching successful executives who are sometimes or often experienced as abrasive. And I help them be completely authentic while they end the complaints and take performance to an even higher level. And as you mentioned, I coauthored the Amazon bestseller Workplace Warrior people skills for the No Bullshit Executive, and I also have a podcast called Workplace Warrior Drive Results Without Damaging Relationships. And I was the chief operations officer of a company that we built from 4 employees to 65. It was a specialized health care company. And, somewhere in the neighborhood of about an 800% revenue increase and then sold it to Blue Cross of California. And, 3 and a half years after selling it, I got fired, and that's part of the interesting story we'll talk about today, and started my coaching business.
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You got fired from the own company you you started?
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No. No. I got I got fired after the company was bought. So we we saw yeah. We saw It hurts it hurts just as bad. At least you got a little money in your pocket. A little gold rich, if you will, in your pocket. You know, Ioften tell people I'm certainly not poor, but III wish that the last name were a 100% true. Right.
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No no question. I mean, at some point, someone in your family said, you know, we're Gold Rich. Like, that's that Gold Rich family. They're rich in gold, and you're like, what happened to that? I think it's ironic, though, the color of your book is gold, But it's also the color of Purdue's colors, and I'm not real happy about that because I went to Indiana University. So we'll take that offline later, maybe.
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Okay. Well, the other thing we could talk about is my wife went to Michigan State, so she's a Spartans.
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Well, no 1 likes them anyway. I mean, they they shouldn't be in the big 10. The only reason they're in there is so we can have 10:10 schools. That was it. Listen. I have to like them. I know. That's why you have a Spartan on your helmet If you're There you go. I see the influences coming in now. and if she hits me in the background somehow, that's I mean, wives can do that. They can they can smack you from anywhere. It's incredible. Yes. Yes. Are you under duress right now? Is she on the other side of the camera
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going, you No. No. No. No. She's she does not she is retired and does not wanna deal with this, so she's in the other room.
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Okay. We'll keep her voices down. I don't wanna I don't wanna disturb. Okay. Alright. Alright. So, you said you know, we were talking offline. You said, you know, you were concerned because you were like, hey. I'm not an entrepreneur. And I was talk to me about your own entrepreneurial journey because I think it's it's valid because you you are because you wrote a book and you have a company and you you've so talk about what you're you know, just just set the stage we were kind of discussing offline.
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So Istarted off wanting well, first of all, I was born and raised in a, city housing project in New York, on the north side of Manhattan, and I lived in the same building as as Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
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At the same time?
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At the same time. He's 4 or 5 years older than me, so he didn't know who I am. He's also 4 or 5 feet taller than you probably is. And he's also 4 or 5 feet taller. And, you know, my mother used to sit with his mother and yell at the kids in the playground. But, yeah, Irecently met him in a restaurant, and we sort of introduced, but it was really a big deal to have grown up in the same place he did. Yeah. And I also grew up in a family that was allowed by even New York standards. And my first career was as a therapist, and I did a bunch of different work doing that. And somewhere along the line, I realized I didn't wanna be a therapist, and I started moving into more management kind of positions. My first real management job was with a company called Personal Performance Consultants, which ultimately got sold to Anthem, and I was the director of National Support Systems. And then I became the the chief operations officer of a company here in San Diego, which which is was it was a specialized health care company. And they, they did both employee assistance programs as well as, helped self insured companies do utilization review and quality assurance on their, health care payments for psychotherapy, basically. And that was the company that we built from 4 employees and sold it to Blue Cross. About 3 and a half years into the, into the my work there, I got fired for mismanaging my budget. And the week after I bumped into the woman from the finance function who came over to me in a coffee shop and said, I owe you an apology. And I said, why? And she said, well, you know how for the last 4 months, you've been telling me there's something wrong with your overhead? And I said, yeah. And she said, and you know how I looked at you like I didn't have a clue what you were talking about? And I said, yeah. And she said, and you asked me for a breakdown of your overhead, and I never gave it to you. And I said, yeah. She said, well, I knew exactly what you had done wrong and what was wrong with your overhead. And I was told by our boss that I would lose my job if I told you.
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So What? You got you got set up to leave. I got set up big time.
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And, 1 of the things that is very important to me is, I hate feeling like a victim, and I knew I had a tremendous opportunity to feel like a victim. So I did what I previously when I was a therapist would work with my clients on doing, but certainly now as a coach, when stuff like that happens is focus on what I controlled. So I was not, unprofessional. I did not use profanity. But I had seen her do stuff like this before, and I didn't respect her. And I also wasn't bright enough to realize that my very direct New York style, which worked well in an entrepreneurial company, would not work well in a, you know, in a multilevel, nonprofit, which is what Blue Cross was at the time. And so I just continued to be my overly direct self, and I realized that in thinking about it that, you know, I had had people before tell me, you need to get more diplomatic, and I had always dismissed it as a bunch of bull. And I realized that the only way I could not be a victim here was to treat this as if I was being smacked over the head by, the universe to tell me it's time for me to straighten out my act. So I made a commitment to change how I talk to people and how I communicate. And that was half of it. The other half is rewiring my brain and learning how to say things differently. So that's, that's what got me into being an executive coach. And, then I decided to write this book on abrasive executives, and there's the little bit of story about that is that most of the abrasive executives that I know don't wanna hurt people. And we live in a time when everybody is supposed to be psychologically safe and treated with respect. And the people who write that write books like, the no asshole rule and call them names like bully and jerk and etcetera. And so, you know, to me, there's a little bit of, I don't know if hypocrisy is the right word, but at least it's irony that you would want people to be respectful and then call the names of people you don't like those kinds of names. And so that's why I wrote the book. And after I published the book, all of a sudden, I got this idea that, wow, I got a book published. I ought to be an entrepreneur. And I forgot all the reasons why I never was an entrepreneur, and we can go into those. And so I've been an entrepreneur since, I think, it was 2, 000 20 I opened up the company. I have gotten some business. However, most of my businesses has still been referred or as a subcontractor to master contractors. So got a lot to say about how to figure out, what you need to do to, be a successful entrepreneur.
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Well, I mean, if you're paying bills and you're happy and you're not working for anybody, I don't care how you get there. There's different paths to revenue. You know, it's it's maybe what your perception. I think this is a good good lesson. I think entrepreneurs should see is what you think your entrepreneurial journal is gonna be, it's not going to because you have a preconceived view of the world. Exactly. Exactly. And so do I care if you know, so for an example, right, if, you know, I look back a year ago, we didn't have a follower on our on our channel for never been promoted. Like, we it didn't exist. It just like, I think we got the URL the the channel link. That was it. Here I am, you know, 30 days after kind of putting some effort into it because we have the book coming out and everything else. We have 375, 000 subscribers. And now I'm like, well, wow. If we could really grow that, I don't need to own a marketing company. I could just focus a 100% on YouTube and get subscriptions and add value, and it's a whole different job. That's not my entrepreneurial route I thought was gonna take. I it still might not be, but there's an opportunity that presents itself, and you go down that path where you don't. And it sounds like you just found the way that found you based on who you are and how you interact and how you gotta have people buy things. Yeah. IIII
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sort of have always known what I wanna do. It shifted kinda midlife when I moved down and decided to be a coach rather than a COO. And, you know, I it you're absolutely correct that it you're on a journey, and you don't always know where it's gonna lead.
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I mean, you know, you get you get some gas, you're gonna get some flat tires along the way, hoping you don't get any too many racks. You can always buy a new car. I'm not sure where that metaphor goes exactly. But, well, listen. So in your book, right, so maybe breakdown. I always like getting, like, you know, if you got 1 thing to take away from the Workplace Warrior book and how it transcends to your business, what is it? What's the what's kind of the big takeaway?
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Well, I would say that the big takeaway, most most of the abrasive executives and me when I before I had made the commitment to change, on some level think that it's a bunch of politically correct bullshit that you should have to, talk to other people the way they wanna be talked to. And why can't they handle it? And I think 1 of the big lessons that I got was the people around you know stuff that you don't know all the way down to the, administrative staff. Sometimes the administrative staff knows more than you. And so it is very critical to ask 1 of the 1 of the big ahas for me in my life came from my coach, who informed me that he was gonna quit and beat me up. Literally, he realized he needed to talk to me that way to get me to listen. He was gonna quit and beat me up if I didn't do 1 thing, which was whenever I expressed the strong opinion about what we should do or I told somebody to do something, they get to tell me why it won't work. And then he said, you know, you're gonna tell the garbage man to pick up the garbage differently. The garbage man gets to tell you why it won't work. You can ask the receptionist to answer the phone differently. The receptionist gets to tell you why it won't work. And then he said, you know, if you don't do that, I'm gonna quit, and I'm gonna kick your butt. And, I started doing it, and, I realized how much these people know and that I didn't know. And it was interesting, especially the administrative staff, were afraid to challenge me, but they liked me. They they they kind of had figured out that, you know, that's who I am and that I don't disrespect them, so they did workarounds. And so what I thought was going on in the system wasn't even going on in the system. and when I finally figured that out, I realized that, you know, they can they can fix this stuff much better than I can, and they know what they're doing much better than I can around a lot of this stuff. So Iwould say the key message from workplace warrior is if you're being experienced as abrasive, the reason to change is because you need the input of the people around you. Everybody knows stuff you don't know. The side effect is that they feel treated respectfully.
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You, do you feel like who well, let me say it differently. The executives that probably need the most help, do they actually come to you, or are they recommended by someone above them?
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Well, often, they're referred to me not always, but often, they're referred to me by master contractors. I've had a couple who have come directly to workplace warrior. And, typically, they are people who are very, very valuable to their company. And so the company has gotten to the point where their, communication style has gotten difficult enough and is costing enough that they believe they need help, but they don't wanna lose them. And so it it's a little bit of they get pushed, and then and then they have to figure out, can I talk to this guy? And, the key issue is, do they think it's a bunch of politically correct bull that they're being asked to change their behavior? And once we get through that, you know, we have to find some you know, we have to find a reason that they would change even without the pressure, and most of them would. There's a you know, there are a few people who are abrasive who enjoy hurting people, but most of them don't.
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I would think it comes from HR.
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Well, yeah, it come it does. It comes from HR and their bosses where they get the pressure.
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Right. Well, in in in well, I mean, that that's the thing too. So I do find though a lot of these, a lot of executives just are it's just people, but they're in executive position, so from the are they just miserable in their own lives and they take it out on others? Or is it is it is it do you see this kind of any, like, a recurring theme that they're generally very nice at home, but they get to work. They're just lunatics. Or, like, how does that work? Yeah. I think it's part part of my experiences is that it's partly cultural.
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So a lot of them either come from you know, I grew up in New York. 1 of the people that I coached recently, came from South Africa from a very direct South Africans are very direct. I I've had a couple of German CEO, CEOs or c level people who I've coached for companies that were in, you know, American companies that had locations in Germany. So very often, it's where they grew up, and it's also how how did your family talk to each other. And a lot of them just think, I'm talking. What's the problem? So that's 1 piece of it. The second piece of it is is that in order to be successful, you have to as an entrepreneur, as an executive, you have to really care. And it has to be really important to you because as as you know, it's a ton of work. And often, people like that have their self esteem attached to whether or not they're successful and whether or not they get it right. Mhmm. 1 of the stories I like to tell is I'm 12 years old, and I'm sitting at the kitchen table at the kitchen at at the dinner, you know, at the kitchen table with my uncle and my aunt, my father and my mother. My uncle was a psychiatrist, And I decided it's time for me to offer a political opinion. And without missing a beat, my uncle looked at me and said, Jordan, you're a moron. Now I didn't think for 1 second that Seymour thought I was a moron. I knew he respected me, loved me, and wanted me to do well. That was just the way my family said you haven't thought this through. So there's a lot of that. You know, it takes a while to get that other people don't speak the way you do. And that, you know, you and get past believing that it's just that they're weak and they don't get it and they wanna control you and all of that.
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Yeah. The, I think sometimes there's this illusion of of professional success that allows you to think you can continue to do that because that's what you think got there. In some environments, maybe that's, you know, to get through the muck, but I say, you know, that may explain like, what you just described, that may explain your behavior, but it doesn't excuse it. You are 100% correct. and you're in and then another part of that. So the next step is you are gonna have to be unwilling or unable to change that behavior, but in either of those cases, neither of those are acceptable. So it's like you have to you have to not only you're gonna have to do something, and you can yeah. We got the excuse. We understand it. Don't accept it, and the next actions are do something about it.
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Right. No question.
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Yeah. And I'm sure that's when the you need leverage, I think, sometimes with, you know, a type things like that who just do it the way they wanna do it, and they don't really care. For them, they have to make a at least an outward finishing change even though in on the drive home, they're cussing that out with whomever they'll listen to. I because because I don't you know, you're trying to get a change at work versus, you know, you're I guess you're the holy grail. Right? Or the is to get somebody to actually change, but the truth is just manage that's how you're gonna manage it at work. So the reason I say that is in for entrepreneurs listening. Right? You're gonna build a culture, and if you find that you're quick to have a, like, a harsh tongue and you're excusing it because that's how I talk, that's how I am, that's how I get shit done, Know that that's not gonna work long term for you. You're you're gonna hire the same type. You're not gonna get diversity in who you hire, and I don't mean by, like, color or race or where You're gonna get the type of people who can handle that or like that, and you're not gonna get the the people that you like, you just described, Jordan, that know. You're not gonna get some you're gonna leave out a lot of good people out of your organization who's like, I'm not doing any of that. Yeah. Exactly. You've got it. Yeah. I don't even touch I'm 90 I haven't taken your course yet, but Idon't have to. Now I'm good. You said I got it. So okay. This is why this is why your entrepreneurial background, we gotta help you on sales. You're like, well, you don't have it fully. If you sign up for the full course, you really get into you you miss the sales opportunity there, Jordan. We're gonna so so fast forward for me. You're like, I asked this to a lot of people. So you're you're doing this work. You've coauthored, you know, the book. It's a bestseller. I even realized it was an Amazon bestseller as well. What's where do you see it going for you next? What's next for you?
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Well, I'm a young 71 years old.
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Oh, man. I wish you guys, if you're listening to this, you want this much hair at 71, period. Male or female. Either way. And by the way,
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in the, in the camera, it looks like I have more hair than I actually have because I have a really good barber. So that's 1 of my pieces of advice as you start losing your hair, get a really good barber. I just started that 4 weeks ago, tonsorial barber off Windward Parkway up here in Alfredo, Georgia. These guys are good.
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So, I'm sorry, but I was through what I got caught up in fucking Oh, this is where our sponsor will kick in ginseng for memory and short term memory loss. We're going to it's getting a mess. Alright. You're, what's next? What what do you are you gonna are you gonna is this it? Oh, yes. What's next? What's, or what what's the what do you wanna do next? You're you're young 71. You got at least 25 more years in this Yeah. Go on. So 1 of the things about why I shouldn't have become an entrepreneur
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is that I hate everything around it except making a difference in people's lives. I am very extroverted. I love interacting with people. You know, I can but I hate the marketing. I hate all the other pieces of it, and, I don't wanna do it. And then I have a conversation with somebody. I'll be you know, I'll feel really good after this conversation because it's a really good conversation. But after you know, if I if I leave a meeting with someone or coaching session with someone and they feel that I've helped them and I've made a positive difference, you know, Iam feeling satisfied for the rest of the day. And so I'm I'm really you know, when you when you go through these life changes, there's what is referred to as ambivalence, which means you're pulled in different directions. There's a piece of me that doesn't wanna sit around watching TV with my wife all day. And, by the way, we've been watching reruns of NCIS, the original 1 with Mark Harmon, and it's really, really good. Those were much better than the new ones. Oh, no question. It's I'm shocked at how good it is. But be that as it may, I could sit on the couch with her all day, but I know I'd get bored. So I'm continuing you know, I really am continuing to do executive coaching with people who are interested in being coached and people who, really, underneath it all, care about doing the right thing. And so that's what I'm doing. That's what I see coming. My wife wants to take some trips around the world, and Do it. We're gonna do that. But, yeah, that's that's that's where it goes.
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Yeah. And I actually see a different buyer for I I'm all about I mean, from I'll put my marketing in half for you. So that's because that's what we do. So I don't think you need the executive that's lost that's off the deep end. I think that's the 1 you ultimately can help. I could see you, though, just getting the 1 that wants to do a little bit better. It's pretty good, internally struggles with I just wanna choke everyone who I work with and, like but just wants to nail it. I think that executive is the 1 that is the 1 you want to go forward. It's the 1 that it's doing pretty well to mask it, but, internally, they're just dying. They just I hate this. Like like, I really am frustrated. How do I do it better? Do you do you market to them, or are are you only getting pulled in when it's a, you know, shit storm?
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Well, you know, to tell you the truth, back this is back to what I'm doing. Somewhere along the line, I stopped marketing because I realized I'm not good at it, and I don't like it. So right at the moment, you know, again, Goldrich. I'm certainly not gonna be buying any mansions in La Jolla, but my wife and I are fine, you know, with the 2 of us. So I get enough business in from people who know me or have heard about me that I'm not really working on building it. However, if you are a new entrepreneur, you're gonna have to do that. And I think 1 of the key things you're gonna have to deal with is how do you feel about doing the marketing? How do you feel about doing the networking? If you don't wanna do it, you'd better have somebody on your team who enjoys doing it because there are people who love it. Yeah. And
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that just isn't me. So I'm not sure if I've answered your question. No. No. I think you have this. So I think this is where I'm so I wanna give you a call just conscious of time too. So I wanna I wanna give you the call to action, but I'm gonna call anybody who's an entrepreneur who has some level of success. So if you're early stage, I'd say this is, you know, this Tory is not the right guy for you. He's gonna I don't know his prices, but I know if you're still if you're just starting a business, it's probably not the best pick. But I will tell you this. If you have some funding and you got some revenue coming in and you just wanna set yourself up to be a better leader, That's the guy I want to call you because I think that would be a fun thing because I think you have people who are excited to be there with you. It gives you the kinda satisfaction to work with them anywhere in the world because they'll appreciate the fact that you're where they're going to want to be, you know, so many years down the road that you're on a trip around the world. You're like, I'm going to take an hour call to go help this guy. I'm changing your marketing plan that you don't have. I'm going to send I'm going to send someone to you, an entrepreneur. I want them to come to you to just learn how to build their company from day 1 to be a warrior, a bit but to be somewhere that's not an asshole. If you're concerned about assholeism, call Jordan.
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I love it.
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How should should they go to work workplace warrior inc dotcom? Is that the best place to get you? Or what's the They could do that, or they could just connect with me at jordan@jordangoldrich dot com. jordan@jordangoldrich.com or jordangoldrich.com. That's another 1.
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Right.
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I assume that's is that your website as well? How many websites do you have? Like I only have 1 website. It's workplace warrior inc. So you have a you see see, it's confusing. You have a URL that does okay. Never
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Yeah. And then and then my email is jordan@jordangoldrich.com.
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Anybody who's writing that down, like, Thomas, could you shut up, please? He's trying to explain how to get a hold of him. Who outside of the person I'm throwing on top of you to say to give you a hold of you, who else should get a hold of you?
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Who else? Well, you know, Ireally, really enjoy Ihave a a this would be volunteer. I volunteer for an organization called the Honor Foundation, which helps special operations forces, Navy SEALs transition.
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Oh, nice. And,
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you know, so if if there are those kind of folks out there who are having it. It's a challenge transitioning to the civilian world. By the way, the reason my book is called workplace warriors, I read the Navy SEALs ethos. And I'd encourage those of you who are kind of overly direct to read through that and get to the part where it says I protect people who can't protect themselves, and I humbly serve and stuff like that. So that's a lot of what really informed my
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that's where the warrior came from. That's good. I like that. Yeah. I can't imagine that transition from the intensity and purpose, sense of purpose and camaraderie and belonging to this civilian world of which you Navy SEALs, all military military do their part to provide freedom for in in their own way right now, and then you come in there, you just see this this absolute negligence of reality of what people are going through to kind of keep it there. And III bet it's just infuriating and confusing and horrible. I mean, it's not it's not like it'd be any like, I could I would I see why people stay career in military because it's just
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the purpose and the camaraderie and all the things that go with it. Yeah. A lot of a lot of them say they would rather be out on the battlefield being shot at than having to in interview for positions in the civilian world. That they don't want. Right.
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Ican I can understand that? I don't think I wanna get shot at, but homeless box might might be better than working for some companies. I don't know. I at least would Yeah. I hear you. Anyway, but they got listen. Thank you so much, Jordan, for joining today. III love this conversation. It's good, good feeling, good good vibes, good hearted, and I think, you know, what you're doing to help maybe improve the corporate world of which many of us don't don't really line up with a lot of the practices that are in it, and the things that you went through, Iappreciate you taking the time to share that and just being out there with with it. Oh, thank you. My honor to be here, and this was a wonderful conversation. I really enjoyed it. Thank you, Jordan. I appreciate it. and anybody who made it here to the end of the podcast, I often give out dad points, and I it might be stupid, but the truth is dad points are the best, and you don't know where to spend them, and that's the best part. So anybody who made it here gets 10 dad points. Keep your total going. But, if you do actually, I'm probably missing an opportunity there is to create a place to spend your dad points, but, thank you for making it. So listen, we are on a mission. I'm gonna say it again. We want more entrepreneurs. We want them better at entrepreneurship and better at life, and if you are an entrepreneur, go help somebody on their journey, and if you're just starting, go find some help. You know, I you know, there's there's the cut the tie, community that's getting started. So if you're interested in that, you can find that on our website at never been promoted.com. And if you, if you enjoyed this, subscribe, follow, maybe share it. And if you think you got a great story, I want you to come on here and tell it as well. But until we meet again, I want you to get out there, unleash your entrepreneur, and thanks for listening to the Never Been Promoted podcast.
