Quick Tips for Building a Niche Newsletter in 2024 with Sean Ryan

Never Been Promoted Podcast with Thomas Helfrich

Sean Ryan shares his journey from ad sales in New York to creating a successful marketing agency specializing in newsletters. Known for his focused and niche approach, Sean discusses the importance of consistency and sticking to your entrepreneurial vision.

About Sean Ryan:

Sean Ryan is the co-founder of Rotary Digital, a company that specializes in creating and managing niche newsletters for affluent men. With a background in ad sales for major publications, Sean transitioned to entrepreneurship to create a more personal and effective way to connect brands with their target audiences. His experience includes developing successful newsletters that deliver high engagement and valuable results for advertisers.


In this episode, Thomas and Sean discuss:

• The Journey to Rotary Digital: Sean shares his transition from ad sales in New York to founding Rotary Digital and the inspiration behind creating niche newsletters.
• The Importance of Niche Focus: Sean emphasizes the value of focusing on specific target audiences and providing tailored content to drive engagement and loyalty.
• Persistence and Consistency: Sean highlights the importance of consistent effort and persistence in achieving success, sharing his own strategies for daily productivity and growth.

Key Takeaways:

• Value of Niche Marketing

Understanding that focusing on specific audiences allows for more effective storytelling and better connections with clients.

• Importance of Persistence

Consistent daily effort and persistence are crucial for achieving long-term success and overcoming challenges.

• Leveraging Newsletters for Growth

Utilizing newsletters as a central tool to engage audiences, promote offerings, and drive business growth.

"It's all about sticking to it. Once you are committed to an idea, give it all your attention and energy. Don't get taken back by failure; it's a great teacher." — Sean Ryan

CONNECT WITH SEAN RYAN:

Website:https://www.rotarydigital.net/
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanryanaccelerator/
Email: sean@rotarydigital.net 

CONNECT WITH THOMAS:

X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/thelfrich | https://twitter.com/nevbeenpromoted Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hovienko | https://www.facebook.com/neverbeenpromoted
Website: https://www.neverbeenpromoted.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/neverbeenpromoted/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@neverbeenpromoted
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfrich/
Email: t@instantlyrelevant.co

Transcript

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Welcome to another episode of Never Been Promoted. Hi. I'm your host, Thomas Helfrich. I am here to help you kinda cut that tide, all the stuff out there that you hold on to to hold you back, the people, the things, you know, the excuses you make and these fears you hold on to for some reason. I wanna help you cut that tie to unleash your entrepreneur. You know, why is it called Never Been Promoted? I sometimes skip this. I've just never been promoted in my life. But we do try to promote our guests as much as possible. If, you know, if you're here for the first time, you know, thanks for coming by. I really hope you, you know, listen again. And if you've been here before, thanks for listening. We're gonna meet our guest, Sean Ryan, who's the cofounder of Rotary Digital. We'll get into that name a little bit. But before we do, let's take a moment. If and if you've liked the podcast or it's it's something you've enjoyed, you know, go go to the Apple. Go to the app, the Apple podcast site or Spotify or whatever your favorite player is and give it a really good review. This really means a lot for the community, and our mission to help 1000000 entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship. Appreciate it. Give the YouTube channel, follow as well at youtube.com at never been promoted. But enough shameless plugs. Let's bring in Sean Ryan, cofounder of Rotary Digital. Rotary.
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Yeah. That's right. That's right.
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Nice beach. Calling in from your beach house, which means, guys, this guy is super successful and
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super successful. Probably drives a Lamborghini or a minivan. 1 of the 2. That's right. That's right. They drive a minivan before. That's true. Never a Lamborghini. Had my minivan. Lamborghini.
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Oh, okay. It's it's it's rotary or rotary? Let's go through that. It's rotary. It's rotary.
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The idea when we started the company was, we wanted to come up with, like, an old school sort of sounding name. So, and giving a little secret, most of what is created around the company, is based off of, songs from the Black Keys, which is 1 of my favorite bands, but, hopefully, they're not upset about that. So that's part of it too.
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It's, I think I've seen them. I didn't realize I was seeing them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen them many times. I I think I saw them. I don't remember for sure. But I was told I was at that concert. Let's just leave it at that. Oh, wow. You must have had a fun time if you don't remember. They said I had a great time and ordered a lot of Taco Bell after Yeah. That's right. Years ago. Yeah. I think it was Lou, I think we we that that night, the Taco Bell and the drive thru was over $300. Just Wow. Yeah. Like, you're 4 guys. Really you had a really fun time. We had a really good time. And and I remember, you know, my my best friend who's who's driving order him he ordered all this Taco Bell, and they're like, okay. Go and pull through. And he's like, no. That was just for me. It was like, oh, I was like, $100. And I'm like, let's just go with it. Let's each of us order, like, $100 for the Taco Bell Bell just because the you know?
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Yeah. Why not? That's what it's for. Right? Late night? That's right. Sure.
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If okay. So here's that's a good icebreaker question before we get into, you know, to what you're doing here a little bit, what's probably the worst piece of advice anyone's ever given you?
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Woah. The worst piece of advice.
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Where they were like, you gotta do this, and you're like, this is absolutely the worst piece of advice I've ever heard. And they were serious. Like, that would help you. Not like the the the playful, like, order a $100 worth of Taco Bell kind of
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I don't remember, but I could flip it a little bit here, maybe if you don't mind. When I was I'll try to keep this short because I don't wanna make it too long. When I I went to college really only went to college, because my friends went. I had terrible grades. I stumbled through college, played tennis in college. That was kind of the key reason I was there. Coming out, I was teaching tennis for a living, and then, I winded up getting my first sales job. It was in Philadelphia. Literally, I was working for a magazine. The idea was that I would go up and down the road and, like, ask people to buy $200 ads in the back of the magazine. And, after a while, through, just a a range of circumstances, I got a job in New York. And when I got the job in New York, I went to the guy that I was working for. And, when I told him that I was gonna be working in in New York, he looked at me then in the eye and said, you'll never make it. So, that probably I don't wanna call that advice, but that was motivation. So So that was motivation for me to go to New York and stay there until I figured it out. But I'm gonna say that that's probably the the sort of, kind of indirect answer to your question.
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I think that's a good motivator. I mean, like Yeah. The the person you're kinda, like,
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spiteful towards, it gives you the initial push. Oh, yeah. For sure. I remember his name. I know I mean, I I and I had I had very little focus to that point. I had no idea what I was gonna do with my life. I was just trying to figure it out, and he gave me absolute 0 focus. Not necessarily on what I was gonna do, but that I wasn't gonna come back from New York. I was gonna figure out how to make it work for sure. Yeah. Did you look at him and go or or I'll say differently. Have you ever driven by his apartment and just sat there? No. But I've, like, looked him up a few times online to see where he was. I think he's passed obviously, he's passed away now. He was older at the time, but there were times during the during my career where I would look him up and just sorta remind myself. That happened for a while. But, you know, you get to you get to a certain point where, like, okay. I've proven it. Now it's more about me and less about him. But, like, in the beginning, it it definitely was. It was quite a little bit about him. So, yeah, that's funny. He may have been projecting a bit. Yeah. Maybe. That's right. I'm sure he was. I'm gonna go with that. I don't even know the guy. I don't even like him. You know what? You know what? That's right. But, you know,
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maybe it's gonna motivate me. Who knows? May maybe he knew exact. So, you know, the the role of, like, a parent, right, is not to tell you what you need to hear. It's to tell you what you need need to hear, not what you wanna hear. Yeah. Yeah. Like, this guy needs to hear that. So he gets off his ass and actually shows us. I never asked him. Right? Maybe if I'd gone back to him years later and said, like, why did you say that? He might have told me that. I knew you'd make it. I just needed to get you off your ass. You're a tennis player. Someone tells you you can't hit a cross court backhand while running full speed. Sure as hell you're gonna go out there and do it. I sure do. That's right. That's a good 1. Hands on backhand or 1? 1. No. It's
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Yep.
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2, could never do it. Just, didn't have the reach, didn't have the sort of the range, but pretty good 1 hand back. Yeah. Not bad. Not that we're gonna get I I played racquetball. Into it. We can get into whatever you want. So so I was a racquetball player growing up. Like, a competitive national like, didn't didn't go pro, didn't see the money value prop You were, like, nationally ranked in racquetball? I have a world title in juniors for doubles. Yes. Woah. Yes. I was on the US the junior national team years ago.
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Only, sorry, only racquetball, or did you play, any other racket sports?
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Squash for fun. Squash. I did too. Tennis tennis and racquetball don't go because tennis, you go kinda low to high. Yeah. In racquetball, you go high to low with no spin or very, very, like, a specific spin for the shot. So when you a racquetball player becomes a tennis tries to do tennis, they have mechanics. They're doing the things they do. No no chance for 2 handed background if if you're from Racco. Like, that's not even I don't even know. I I get it, and I feel like a wet noodle. I'm like, I have no idea what to do here. Yeah. But I will tell you that, occasionally, what I didn't like about tennis is you go out there with maybe 3 to 4 balls if you found maybe 1 extra 1 laying around. And guaranteed within 7 minutes, 1 ball has been launched into the forest and or lake and or parking lot because you're like, here's the confidence and you're like you just you go back to your swing and boom. There's no spin, but that thing is to the moon. Yeah. You don't mean to. It looks intentional, but it's not.
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But I could see you taking sort of that flat down the high to low sort of swing and trying to make that work on a tennis court. On a tennis court, though, I will tell you. When I did serve
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Yeah. It was difficult to return even for good players because, like, there's, like, no spin on the ball, and it's coming in flash you get. And then, like,
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there's power there. Right? So that was kinda fun. That's so cool. I definitely tried, you know, like I said, I grew up playing tennis through college. I tired squash is amazing. Just how difficult it is, like players at the top level. I never saw a top level racquetball. I'm sure it's amazing too. So it would have been fun to see us play. You you know, the assumption
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the assumption is in racquetball, you're not moving as much, and I know that's totally untrue. Oh, no. No. So the reason it never became a bigger sport, and we'll we'll move on from this, is it moves so fast. The ball is going a 150 to a 180 miles per on a serve in a 40 foot court of which you pick up at about 28 feet, with left. So the speed is incredible. I mean, it's just there's an explosion sound, and then you're like, it's like on it's unfilmable.
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Wow. Because it's too fast. Oh, wait. Last question. Do you still play? I started playing again. Yeah. I'm just I started playing tennis again. Same thing. Yeah. And I'm I'm, like, very cautious because your 18 year old mind is still there, and you're like, I'm gonna break something. I played tennis yesterday, and, like, I'm sore as anything today because you're you're right. You I still I still can hit a tennis ball, like, when I was 20, but I shouldn't be hitting a tennis ball like that because I'm not 20 anymore. But you you can't help it. Right? Like, that's why you're in the record. That's a good metaphor for,
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for peep for marketing. Let's get into that just a bit. Yeah. I'm assuming Rotary Digital is a marketing agency. It is. But, but the idea is if you get stuck in these kinda old ways and you're not adopting new tech, new processes, new ways people want to get interacted with, it no longer works. And I'm gonna Lee, pause that and talk about because you said, you know, can I have this old school idea? Talk about what you, you know, what you've created, kind of give me the the pitch on that and and take me how you got there from tennis to to to the the agency.
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Yeah. So, okay. So so we talked about how I I got into New York. I was selling and advertising. I was working for range of companies. You know, Ladies Home Journal, if anybody remembers that. It was a huge magazine back in the day, Rolling Stone. I was big you know, I was just basically an ad sales guy kind of going through that, path, which we all would when you're in ad sales. Right? You wanna be an ad salesman, then you wanna be a manager, then you wanna be a publisher. But I realized when I became a manager that I didn't like it at all. I didn't like managing people. I liked, maybe it's a control issue. I like the idea that I was hunting and killing my own things. Right? So to have other people be responsible for that and for me to manage them, it just wasn't my thing. So long story short about, wow, 15 years ago. And this is a key part of why this all works too was I decided that I didn't wanna go to New York anymore. I was I was commuting 3 hours a day, 17 years. And I was like, how do I do this from home? And I decided at that time that I was gonna try to be a consultant. And the 2 things that I realized right away were, number 1, once I decided and I was committed to it, you're pretty amazed at how many people out there either do it or how many other companies out there would use your service. And I think a lot of the times for people that launch out on their own, they're too afraid that, there's not a need for it or they won't find enough people, or they won't make it work. Right? But once you really get your head in there, you find out that there's, like, a big community. So I started doing that. I started working commission only sales so that I didn't have to commute every day into New York. And then, fast forward, I was working for a company, out of Philly called Cool Material, a website. And, it was owned by a guy by the name of Tim Jacobson, who's now my partner. And, it was this really great site that, offered this great platform for direct to consumer companies. And they were companies that were spending just a couple $1, 000 an ad, but it was really refreshing because, it changed from how I was doing business before, which was I was basically working with agencies and I was going after 6, 7 figure, agency RFPs. And sometimes you win them, sometimes you don't, but it's a it's a really difficult process. We could spend hours talking about it. Yeah. And I didn't wanna do that anymore. So, working for quip working for cool material on SIM was great. I was talking to clients directly, and they were deciding, like, on the phone or on email, like, hey. You wanna run an ad? They say, sure. We'll try it, and that's how it was. So it was just went back to how advertising used to be, almost like when I first started. Anyway, the company only had 2 ad units. And so because direct to consumer ads wanna run around the holidays, I was turning away advertisers the whole time. And being a commission only sales guy, I was like, I don't wanna do that. I'm not making any money. So I was like, well, what else can I do to try to capture some of this money still? And I started talking to some of the brands, and they said, I said, where else do you run? They reach men, and they said newsletters. And this was in 2016. And I was like, people read newsletters? Like, I didn't even think that was a thing anymore. Funny enough today. Right? Right. So we decided to launch, a newsletter that would essentially be a way for us to generate, more ad revenue. So we would launch a newsletter that would complement cool material. And, the first 1 was Elevator, which is what we own. It's a general entertainment newsletter. All of our newsletters are really simple. We curate the content. We curate 4 to 5 articles. We curate 2 images and 1 ad unit. And it's all curated by my partner, Tim and I. And the idea is that we're, I don't know, obnoxious enough to think that whatever we like, other people would like, and that's kind of the philosophy of it. There's only 2 things that we don't do in the newsletters. We don't put anything in there related to news or anything negative, because you can get that anywhere. Isn't that the same thing? News negative? Yeah. It is. It used to be like news used to be like good news Yeah. Gospel, and now it's moved to negative news. Oh, man. You're a 100% right. And, again, you wanna have another podcast about why I could you know, we could talk all day about that. We can go down that road. Yeah. So that's what we started. So we started Elevator, and, we grew it pretty quickly. And then we spun it into its own company. And Tim and I started that company together. And then we basically were having a lot of success with that newsletter, and then we decided to launch 3 other ones. So we have another 1 called Shift, which is a wellness travel 1 for men. Then we have another 1 called Jimmy, which is about sex, dating, and relationships for men. And then we have another 1 called blazer, which is a fashion 1 for men. And the idea was, like, how do you grow scale through niche? Right? We create these sort of niche brands for, the direct to consumer marketers that we wanna work with, and we keep it at a price point where I can talk to them directly and I don't have to deal with agencies, this is a general rule, and try to achieve scale through multiple products. And that's kind of where we are today. So, the company's, again, called Rotary, and we have 4 emails, and they reach about 1a half 1000000 men per day. And it's Wow. To answer your question, we're very specific in that we're like I always use this analogy of, a coffee shop. Right? I never set out to be Starbucks. I just wanted to be a really cool corner coffee shop. And so that's what we continue to try to do. We've never made decisions to be something that we're not. And we recognize that we're small and niche, but we've been able to build a a good enough business where it's Tim and I do well, and we have 4 other great people that work for us. And so we have a nice small business that's nimble. You know, it has its challenges, but, overall, it's a way for us to sort of maintain that kind of niche mentality.
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You make a really good point there. So you can, and I was taking a note on this is that you talked about when people first start and I'll even just narrow that down to like really a marketed agency because it's it's where kind of like all careers go to do your own business first. It's like, oh, I think I can market because my marketing was you you're the niching down. So you've taken it from not only like, hey. I'm not doing all this stuff. We got newsletters. We got and it's to men. And and and it's not like a sexist thing. It's not something else. It's it's like that's just what you do well, and and you're hitting products and services that want to cater to men. Yep. Now that could be interpreted lots of waves by people like, oh, you don't work with I'd work with a woman as long as she's trying to contact men in her product. Right? Right. Right. And and I think that's different than some people going, hey. I help men do this. But but then there's another customer we have that says, I help divorce men, you know, kinda launch their their next phase because he's been through it. And and I go, that's a very specific thing because that person probably actually wants not to work with, a female at that point. So, anyway, it's interesting when you niche down and something you said earlier is that someone's gonna need that. I think the trick is not bending off of it. It's staying committed and focused to that niche. Mhmm. And and I'll take a pause. I know we went through this when I was like, we we first started our agency a few years ago, and I was like, we kinda did too much. Not kinda. We did too much. And too much too fast. And and now we're like, hey, LinkedIn. You wanna rock LinkedIn, you work with us, period. Like, that's what we do. And and US only. It's like kinda we maybe go to Canada. And that's a hard thing to make a transition to. But once you do, you become known for it. Do you wanna talk about that a little bit, that focus, and if you've ever had some moments where, like, maybe we should, and then you go, no. No. No. No. You pull it back in. Oh, yeah. Because you have a cofounder, so it's not like you could just make the decision. Like, you're you have to
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yeah. You you start because I I think I have lots more questions in this space. Yeah. So we were very deliberate to be well, first of all, cool material, Tim's company, was only targeting men. So when we spun out, Rotary to complement that, we wanted to continue to reach men. And in marketing and advertising, you know, the more narrow and niche your focus is, the better story you can tell, and the better you can sell what you do and create that connection with with marketers. Now, you know, I think let's say, I mean, I I think that if I if we were 20 years younger, we probably would have been sort of drunk with, like, the initial success and said, like, oh, we could make this bigger and broader. But I've always been very, very deliberate because I know if I try to reach only upscale men and I keep it at a certain price level, that there's a good range of customers that I can work with. But the minute that I try to become bigger and broader, you open up what we offer to the Internet universe, which is like, there are a 1, 000 different ways to buy men at scale, if you think about it. Right? Whether they're good or not, there are a 1, 000 different ways. But with us, we're very specific. We have a 1 and a half 1000000 subscribers. They, you know, they they obviously take specific action to subscribe to our newsletters. They're extremely loyal. They're first party. So, you know, it's a very valuable audience for us. But we do recognize that when you make the decision to be niche, you also have to accept that there's, you know, a bit of a ceiling, and that's what we focus on now. Right? I have many marketers that work with us that say, hey. Look. If I'm trying to reach upscale men, I come to you guys. I spend, and I do great. But if I need to reach, you know, 5 times that amount, I've gotta go to Facebook or I've gotta go somewhere else. So our challenge is once we've had success with brands, how do you keep them? And some of the brands that are a bit larger, how do you, convince them that we're still a valuable platform for them even if they're using something bigger? But to answer your question, you know, it it it allows us to be very focused. It allows us to really focus on what we do best, and it allows us you know, as a company, we are very much sort of like a dollar in, dollar out. So we're not gonna spend untold amount of money on something that we don't think we know is going to work, because that's just not where we're at at this stage in our careers. So that allows us, again, from a financial standpoint, to be very focused as well too. And, you know, in the end, we really focus on just being really good in our niche. We provide even better value for all the brands that we work with. And that's that's I think that's what's happened, you know, knock on wood. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's great. And, any any of, like, really flagship
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type of, like, success stories and not even some maybe, like, a I was, like, a big 1, but also, like, the small 1 who didn't think it would work. Because, like, those are the ones, like, you're, like, put enough money and time, and it'll you'll get it done. But, like, you get the 1 who's like, hey. Listen. I have you know, you know they have limited budget. You know you're under the pressure to get it done. You know that's gonna impact them if it doesn't. Do do you have a cool story like like that?
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Yeah. I mean, we, you know, we we basically close, in theory, a 100 ads a month, which is kind of crazy, but we do. And we've had a lot of brands that have sort of initially weren't sure if they would work well with us. But, I mean, the the problem there there's a company that's worked for this since the very, very beginning that I think initially we weren't sure. Actually, you know what? There's 1 company that's pretty fun that had, as far as I remember, he had never advertised before, and I had convinced them to try advertising for his brand. He was a former Levi's exec that works for a company called Dadgrass. Don't know if you guys know Dadgrass, but it's like a kind of a hemp company. And, they have this really clever packaging. And, we it was 1 of those times where I was on the phone with him, and he was like, look. I've never done any marketing before for this. Not sure if it'll work. And I had had a long talk with him and convinced him that it could. And after that, he had great success, and then he winded up working with us, and he still works with us to this day. So that was a pretty neat 1. But we have lots of ones like that, brands that are because most of the brands in this category are new. Right? They're just getting going, and then advertising is kind of a new thing for them. So a lot of the times, the great thing for us is that we have no special levers. Right? So if you're a brand and you run with us, we forecast how many clicks we think you'll get. You pay a flat rate. We don't know on your end how well it converts. You let us know. But we can prove to you how many clicks we've delivered, on our third party platform, our our email service provider. And in the end, you'll let us know. So those relationships are great because, you know, we're confident in how many clicks we can deliver. And then when a client comes back and says, wow. That converted really well, and we continue to run with you, it's great. I would say 70% or more of our advertisers are are repeat customers. So that tells you a lot too over the years. So,
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that's another good thing too. So we focus on LinkedIn and instantly roll them for my agency. I can't advertise. No. At least using the words LinkedIn. You can't advertise on LinkedIn? Well, we can't use the word LinkedIn because Google flags it as, hey. You don't own the trademark. And SEO isn't a isn't a play because LinkedIn's the top 700 things you'd say on LinkedIn. So we have our own system that we use for LinkedIn, and train people on or do for them that basically how to use it correctly. And we just use that system itself to find people. Not super scalable, but it works. But in that case, what would you recommend from an advertising standpoint? I mean, you can't use a trademark, but you're you know, it's like a you know, in that scenario, I would love to hear it because you might have a new client here. No pressure.
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Well, right, I mean, first of all, you're trying to reach entrepreneurs. Right? So you're very specific. Right? So LinkedIn would make a lot of sense, but there's also you know, this is gonna surprise you, Thomas. Obviously, I work in the newsletter space. Right? So there there are there are a lot of newsletters out there, that are, specifically targeting founders of companies. There are organizations, that have a tremendous amount of, of, exposure to founders of companies. I yeah. I'm this isn't a plug, but I'm part of it. I'm part of a group called Hamptons, started by Sam Parr from the hustle. And it's a organization that you have to interview to get into, but it's over 700 entrepreneurs. Right? So imagine, Thomas, if you had the ability in some way to be able to get exposure to that, audience. Right? That would be another way. But LinkedIn is a great place for you, but there are a lot of other ways that you can reach entrepreneurs through newsletters, through these,
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founders clubs that I think would be, just a a prime target for you, something maybe we could talk about offline if you want, but for sure. Yeah. No. I mean, listen. I'm in a and and I love these kind of conversations because, you know, if you're if you're thinking about using newsletters, I'm okay. I'm a conversation where people hear it. And the reason is not only do I get free consulting, which is the whole point of the podcast so I can learn. Oh, yeah. But, also, you know you know, in my world, we have the agency, we have the podcast YouTube channel, but also a community I'm gonna start this summer called Cut the Tie. And the idea is is is is that that is a no noise, no BS group of entrepreneurs helping each other or getting help. And so we're not thinking Facebook. We're thinking, hey. Monthly kind of, you know, what do you want to learn about? What kind of speaker do you want? Let's find a live event together. Let's do it in person. And the reason is because there's a lot of entrepreneurs that I know I've met that want that. They want kind of a no noise peer group, that's everyone's paid to be there because there's no tire kickers. There's people that are serious about trying to get help or helping each other based on where they are. If I go to that newsletter and on is it through LinkedIn or are these outside newsletters that you would advertise with? So so take me through it because I would be interested of driving people who wanna use LinkedIn to grow their business without, like and our thing is without brand wrecking spam. Like, we, like, we don't do it that way. We do it the right way so you actually grow a good brand. What would you recommend?
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Well, 2 things. Would your let me ask you this. You have an expertise on how to build a successful brand off LinkedIn. That's fair to say. Right? 100%. Yeah. 100%. And, actually, multiple brands if you need to of the or if you have to be happy with your brand. So there's 2 way. I mean, so there's 2 ways. Number 1, again, you could be, if you don't have 1 already, and apologize if I don't know this, but if you didn't have community, a LinkedIn commute or a newsletter community, you could be building 1 because every entrepreneur would wanna read what you have to say about how to get more exposure on LinkedIn. LinkedIn's become the absolute sort of, like, main platform for most entrepreneurs to try to get exposure. Right? It's for me. I I try all the time on LinkedIn. I I could learn a ton from you. Like, I'm I post most days, but I know that if I'm trying to reach marketers and wanna get them to better understand what we do or what our offering is, I need to do it on LinkedIn. And I don't do it well. So I'm sure that if I hired you or I got your newsletter, I would learn a ton about that. Well and so our newsletter here here's the good thing. So our newsletter, for simplicity are the week's podcasts that are going out, and we do a little LinkedIn tip.
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Do you do that do you look at newsletters and go, we can improve that. I would do this to help more impact. Like, what's your kind of role when there's an existing newsletter in place?
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Well, I mean, that's what I would do for you. I would I'm gonna take look at yours after this, and apologies that I didn't say it before. But We just It's funny, by the way. I'd interrupt you, but we happens all the time. I'm only I'm only on social media in total of an hour a week. Just believe me. Oh, okay. We're not even connected on LinkedIn as of this podcast. I sent it to you this morning. Yeah. No. Well, that's good for you. What I would say naked, Sean. Taylor's kids are I'm gonna look at that I'm gonna look at that newsletter later, and you if I'm positioning yourself as an expert on LinkedIn, you would attract a tremendous amount of of entrepreneurs. You know, like I said, you know, if you had the ability through a community you built or the this this great community, Hamptons, that I'm part of to be a part of, that would be another way for you to get your message out. By by you basically, positioning yourself as an expert on LinkedIn, which you can do because you've proven it, you know, that's gonna be the best way for you to sort of market yourself and your podcast outside of LinkedIn for sure. It could be through a newsletter, and it could be and there's lots of ways for you to promote your newsletter to that community, which we can talk about offline, but there are lots of ways for you to reach entrepreneurs and not be We'll definitely do that. And it's something that I like, you know, you have a newsletter,
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and we use it it for just more brand awareness and for simplicity of content is why we do it too. It's like a moderation of, like, you know, bringing the podcast and everything else. And and I think the reason I'm talking about this for entrepreneurs is that I don't even our newsletter doesn't have nearly there's no real call to action except check out the the podcast in YouTube. The as even I look at our, you know, cross brands of instantly relevant, never been promoted, and what will be this community, you still have to have a centralized place you're starting people based on where they are in their journey. And the newsletter even for us is not it's there with the idea. I think it could be more strategic. And I think a lot of people look at it as like everyone has a newsletter. If you look in your inbox, there's 400. I I joined so few were newsletters. It's usually only customers. Even even, like, you know, podcast guests. I don't join all their newsletters because I just don't it actually hurts their metrics, so I'm not gonna look at it. My personal profile is not. There's a few I will because I'm coaching them or we're doing whatever. So I think when people are out there and they're thinking newsletters, I think they don't think about it as strategically as you're signing. I'm I'm hearing this going. I never even thought about it that way where, you know, if you're out there all the time, that is the guy to go work with. If you're trying to, you know, Draeger we call it executive eminence. Probably it's badly branded, but we really help the founder or the guy or the woman or man who's running the the the $1, 000, 000 or $5, 000, 000 company become bigger than because they wanna do something more and they can't. They're strapped. They don't have the time for it. So we really That's a that's a that's a that's a great niche,
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for you to be an expert on LinkedIn because every entrepreneur needs to be on LinkedIn and needs to be doing more there. And LinkedIn has really changed now. When I was when I first started on LinkedIn, right, Thomas? Like, the whole idea was it was like an exclusive network of the people that you knew, and it's not like that anymore. Like, now it's just trying to get scale. So all the more reason that you could be extremely relevant for just a ton of people. So we could talk about it. And the last thing I'll tell you is the great thing about a good newsletter is, like, that can be your central point to sort of make people aware of all the offerings that you have versus what it used to be, which was a website. But nowadays, a website to try to build and grow and use SEO and try to maintain that, it's become increasingly difficult, and it's just gonna get even worse with AI. So the idea that you can have a newsletter that has very specific subscribers around it, you can actually use that as your tool. And, yeah, there are a lot of newsletters out there, but I don't know any of any newsletter that specifically that I would get in my inbox that says, okay. I'm gonna read this today, so it's gonna tell me how to get better on LinkedIn. So, I absolutely think you have a good niche there. And, yes. So it'd all be happy. We can. I would not you know, I wouldn't be intimidated by the idea. There there are a lot of newsletters out there. There's just not a lot of good ones. I mean, we we face it too. Right? We're lucky in that our newsletters are pretty unique. Actually, they're very unique, and there's not really anything else there there like that. But for sure, you know, there has been an explosion of newsletters because of Beehive and Substack and everywhere else, but I wouldn't let that deter you. You would, you absolutely have a good niche here.
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How do you take the newsletter? So so here's another question. So I have a multi brand challenge. Right? I have instantly relevant. I'll probably have something else down the road. Is it better to brand it? I call it never been promoted newsletter because it's just an easy 1. It's, you know, catchy. But is it better to then extrapolate people to a Thomas Helfrich's newsletter that that talks about LinkedIn? It might talk about, verified marketing agencies. It might talk about entrepreneurship. Is it better to bubble them out to something bigger? So stay very focused on LinkedIn, what about entrepreneurship, whatever else. But tell me about the strategy where you have more offerings in what you and and you know what I mean? Like, so, like, I feel like there's a bigger newsletter to play that because because I'm into different things than just this podcast. Right? And and that's what the the newsletter's around. So I'd love to hear your strategy on that a little bit too because
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it's a bit I mean, for for for you, I think you have a really good, starting point with LinkedIn. I think that that can provide a lot of value, but then you're talking to other entrepreneurs. So I think you can use that newsletter to cross promote other opportunities that you have. And then you can also use that initial newsletter to gauge the interest from those entrepreneurs on the interest they would have in the other offerings that you have. And then that could detail that that would basically tell you, like, hey. This is something that I can continue to include as part of the existing newsletter, or there's enough interest here. I could spend out another newsletter for sure.
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But I think you you have 2 newsletters on LinkedIn? I don't think I don't think you could. Is it I probably should know that. There's a link No. No. But I'm also talk oh, sorry, Thomas. Yeah. You can have a LinkedIn newsletter, but I'm talking about you having a newsletter outside of LinkedIn that promotes Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying. That that's the thing that's what I was asking. We use LinkedIn as a starting 0, yeah. And and you bounce out to something bigger.
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Yep. I gotcha. So, you know, it's funny that we went out to get it, and I you may know this better than me. So I post, pretty regularly on LinkedIn with the, obviously, the ideas, everybody else to sort of grow your following. Right? But I've been reluctant to start a newsletter on LinkedIn because I feel like I'm doing the same thing by just posting every day. And what different value am I giving by creating a, quote, unquote, LinkedIn newsletter as opposed to the post that I do. So I I don't know the answer. You may tell me. Oh, 100
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percent of the answer. So the the difference is a 100% delivery they're in to to their email. So email that referred to LinkedIn, it shows up in your email, hey. Latest from this newsletter, and now you're in their a 100% delivery from that follower base. So we have, like, 8400 people or so on our newsletter and, you know, entrepreneurs, it it gets delivered. Now you do get unsubbed, stuff like that if you do it too often or whatever else they've signed up for, but the the that's guaranteed email delivery.
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Oh, yeah. We do too. Okay. So that's 1 good way to think. So then, look. So considering that you wanna be a LinkedIn expert, you start that on LinkedIn. Right? But then once you start to see success from that and you wanna spend out another newsletter, then it will tell you, like, oh, spit it out from use an email service provider like Beehive or use another 1 like, there are lots of email service providers out there or Substack or whatever you decide. And you can spin out existing newsletters under that umbrella that aren't off LinkedIn that could be about other parts of your business if you want it. But it it all depends. We can talk about it later, but I still think that most of what you do is probably fairly relevant for the same audience, I think, it sounds like. So Yeah. It the the the podcaster
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may wait for me to meet entrepreneurs, get to know them a little bit, see if I wanna bring them into what will be a community called Cut the Tie. Yeah. Because they seem trustworthy. They seem to know what the hell they're talking about. And then the other flip side of that is, is the is bringing them in that they need specifically for LinkedIn help or something else. So, and I I do focus a lot on the marketing agencies because, I believe that's the hardest part of being an entrepreneur is marketing sales. It because like like we talked off camera, if you can't get people to know what you do and you can't sell them on the idea, it doesn't matter how good your processes are, your logos are, your business plan. It doesn't matter unless because revenue fixes pretty much everything. So
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creating ideas and building out, that's the fun part. The the not fun part is grinding out and getting people to to buy what you have or to market what you have or sell what you have. Like, that's the part of the business that is the biggest struggle for most people. Like, everybody likes to create things, but, it doesn't work unless you can, yeah, unless you can promote it, unless you can get you have those conversations, you make those sales. Right? Like, absolutely. So you're a 100% right there.
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Yeah. But and, and the other part, I think, start off. And this this is where I think some of the stuff from, like, the ideas with cut the tie are, you know, is getting started. And so I think, you know, like, if I look at where I'd want a niche as kind of an expert beyond just LinkedIn, which is a set of services, you know, you got, like, the Alex from Mozy's, Gary V's of the world. Everyone telling you all the things you need to do for lead generation, offer generation. Like that's all there. I think 1 of the things I think I need to I like to help people with is setting up the side hustle, getting out of the corporate world. How do I how do I get going? How do I get the the momentum? Because that is honestly 1 of the hardest pieces is where to focus, how to focus, and how to get that niche repetition going while you're still working somewhere. Because So you just said That's the niche. I think I'm gonna go tackle with cup of the tie is because that is a very hard spot to be in, and it's a place where you still have money coming in and you want to. You just don't know how.
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So you just said something that is super interesting, and it's so important for not only not for people like me. I've been around a long time, but for, like, younger people, like my daughters who are just getting into the workforce, everybody nowadays thinking about a side hustle. Right? Either I'm doing 1 or I should be doing 1 or how do I do 1? And if you created something that would help people get started creating their side hustles, and more importantly, which I think the biggest lesson is is, like, don't be afraid to fail. Failing is the absolute best lesson you can ever have. So you try something that doesn't work, you try something else. Right? And if you helped people better understand how to build out and start a side hustle, that's a tremendous term that's a Well, even more so I think I narrow it down even further where
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it it's like, I'm gonna help you set start a marketing side hustle. I don't know the other ones. I don't know b to c. I don't know I don't or I don't know direct to customer. I don't know how to sell a product. I couldn't sell a product or a retail. I couldn't do that. CPG, not myself. Yeah. But if you wanna start a marketing agency, I can certainly help you focus there because because there are skill sets you have or don't have things you like to do or don't do, and that's gonna really guide you to where you're gonna end up after you've tried everything you shouldn't have. Oh, yeah. I love that. I think that's a great idea. I mean, because if if you went back, you're exactly where you were gonna be. Now? You're you're unlikely you're like, you know what? If I do it again, I definitely would have gone fill in the blank. Right? I would have gone, you know, high ticket coaching offer. Like, no, you wouldn't have the experience back then. You never like it's either in you to be like that or it's not. And so if you love doing websites and graphics, you better find value because you're commoditized right now with AI in Philippines and India. Yep. That's right. So, you know, so I I think that's where I'll start with cut the tie from, like, a digital kind of experience group stuff. Most most younger people aren't gonna pay too much for coaching. Maybe I'm misassuming that, but I think I think, anyway. But a newsletter, I think, but a newsletter, I think when you do something like that, you tie back some of the stuff you're doing. Advertising in newsletters to get people to your newsletter is a strategy? You're saying it's a very effective 1?
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Yeah. For sure. We have, we we we do that a lot now. You know, again, unrelated to what you're gonna try to do, but there are a lot of newsletters that promote themselves in our newsletter, and that's how they drive subscribers as well too. In fact, there are companies out there that have been really successful, that have used that as a big part of what they do. Like, 1440, if you've ever heard of them, that's like a a news email. That was a big part of what he did in the beginning. I'm not sure if he does it as much now, but he was promoting all the time, and he still does. So it's absolutely a great avenue. So same thing for you. It'd be in a smaller, more niche level, but there are a lot of newsletters or a lot of platforms out there where your idea around a marketing side hustle and or this podcast could be very relevant for sure. Yeah. I like that word relevant. Could use Yeah. It's very well done.
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Alright. Let's let me ask you a magic ball question. Somebody comes up to you. You're you are the genie. Rubbed your rubbed your little belly and little finger, whatever you're in, and you've come out. And you said yours is gonna say, here's my 1 piece of advice to do or not to do. What is it?
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It's it's all about sticking to it. So it's all about the idea that, once you are committed to an idea that you give it all of your attention energy and you don't, you don't get taken back by failure. I think that's the biggest thing. I think failure is such a great teacher. And I think for I could be wrong, but for most people that have ideas, really what holds them back is the lack of consistent effort, The idea that I'm gonna keep doing this day in and day out. 1 of my favorite I'll tell you, this is just a sort of an offshoot, but it's actually, like, a great way to sort of think about it. I have an article. It's called how to stick with good daily habits. It's by this guy James Clear, and it was about this guy. He was a stockbroker. And what he did was he was in I think it was Arkansas. But, basically, the article starts about how he was a stockbroker who had to make sales calls every day. And so what he did is he had a jar. He had a jar of a 120 paper clips, and he would make a call and he'd take 1 paper clip and he'd put it into the empty jar. And then he would do that until he was done. So he would make a 120 calls every day. And what he did was because he consistently did it day after day, it accrued, and pretty soon he had a $5, 000, 000 business, pretty soon he had a $10, 000, 000 business. I remember that when I read that article many years ago that I adopted the same thing, which was I actually own a $6 counter from Amazon, and the counter basically sits by my desk. Yep. And what I do is I make 25 e well, it's emails mostly nowadays. It used to be calls, but it's emails nowadays where I I ask for money. That's what I do. I ask clients for money. And I do I make 25 a day, and my hope is that I can close a deal a day. Some days I don't. Some days I close a couple. Some days sometimes I go for a few days where III don't get any. But generally, because I do that consistently day in, day out, that has been the cornerstone and key to my success. So my biggest advice to anybody is just keep going after it consistently, daily, and, and and that and that's that's the key to success. There's no, like, magic bullet. You just gotta do the work. Oh my god. We're we're gonna get into that in a minute. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. We read so much about, you know, all these magic things that you can do to be successful, and it's not true. You just gotta put in the work every single day. And and and define what that is for you, but make sure that each day that you put in the work and eventually, like, it builds. It just always builds. It either builds the right way or the wrong way. It builds, and you start to truly see that you have success or something that's gonna work, or you learn pretty quickly that it doesn't and you pivot.
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But that's the only way you can do it. No doubt. How do you want people to get ahold of you? I was like, you know, who who do you wanna get ahold of you, and how should they do that?
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I mean, I would love to you know, obviously, we we have we have 4 we have 4 newsletters that reach a really great group of affluent men. So we're always interested in brands that, are looking to target men, that wanna be in front of a really great, very loyal audience. So they can reach me at sean@rogarydigital.net. You have it right there. Sean@rogeriedigital.net. And, I'd love to talk to and and share more details about what we do and and how we can be a real benefit for any kind of brand that's looking to try to to grow their business.
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You know, you talked about something, Okay. Sticking with it. And and and and 1 of the philosophies we we certainly do for for LinkedIn is, you know, I say, like, just start with, like, the list. Like, 200 people that are should be really good customers and every month have a new 200 because you have the old 200. And the idea is that's 10 a day at the bare like a bare minimum. Start with 10 interactions a day and ask for nothing. And every day, some people reply, so your 10 is going to become a 15, and then it's going to be next thing you know, your 10 new 5, 10 reflies. You're you're starting to grow momentum. So over a year, there's 24 100 people you've potentially interacted with. Now you're about a 100 or so a month that you're going to be really kind of back and forth with. And then your close rates go up because they're you know, if you've set up your profiles and all the things you do methodically, they know what you do and you've never asked for anything. And at some point you might want to grab a meeting with them and meet them. And I teach it, and it's surprising how many people fail at it because they don't do the consistency. They're in this AI, instant gratification world. And what I find is a lot of Gen Xers are really good at it because they're kinda like droned out by the they feel the dopamine and the overstress of it. And they're like, you know, I'm just this isn't and the younger generation really strill it because they're thinking in 90 days at most, and they're not thinking, like, hey. What am I going to be doing a year from now if I don't build this kind of piece? And so you're spot on with the resilience and stick with it and just methodically do it. Learn from the methodical pieces of it. Use AI maybe to record your conversations. Right? Maybe, how can I improve? How can I drive this to be more less salesy, more of this? That we do that every 30 podcasts. I put them in and say, how can I improve the podcast kind of thing? So, Anyway, my point is, you're spot on with that. You have to this dopamine hit AI culture right now that we're in is
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I also think what the way that you've approached it yeah. So that's similar to me. And I think another reason why it works so well is because I think most people think they have to be, I guess, for a lack of better phrase, on for 24 hours, 7 days a week, and that's not the case. So if you define it the way that you're defining it, Thomas, this idea, like, reach out to 10 people a day. Like, once you do it, then you eliminate that stress. Like, have I done enough, or should I do more? Right? You have a consistent plan, and each day you reach out. I mean, it's the same thing. Like, I reach out, like I said, to 25 clients a day, and then I have no issue closing my laptop and saying I did the work today. Right? I did my work that I need to do today. I'm gonna do the same thing tomorrow, and it just builds on itself. And that's that's we did the same thing. That's how I got my first ad in cool material. That's how I got my first ad at Rotary, and that's how we're at this point now where we get almost a 100 ads a month. It's the same philosophy. I mean, if you can you can Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, we could you know, it changes a bit for the younger generation. They you know, sales is sales is a bit more sort of like the nuanced and and subjective, and it's not necessarily about setting up sequences and just putting automation out there. So you have to sort of figure out the balance, but it's just, again,
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like you said, the idea of just putting in daily work, and just keeping at it. You know, my my background's intelligent automation AI. It it wasn't marketing. So I look I look at how I can leverage technologies to accelerate me. Not always replace because some parts need to not be replaced, just accelerate it. But even then, we don't do any real email marketing. And the reason is I find it spammy, and I don't know what I'd say in it to make it attractive. So we've stayed away from it. I was like, if I don't know exactly what I want to do to add value in a sequence, I'm not going to do the sequence. That's my take on brand control and and, like, you know, interact to me. It's authentic, and it's there. Harder to scale, but it doesn't mean you don't use it. But if you're not gonna have an intent that doesn't align to what your brand is, don't. And that's what I tell people because otherwise, you're you're killing your target your total addressable market. At some point, you'll figure it out, and then you're gonna crush it because you've you've asked for little. You've done
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no you've only given favors, not asked. So that's kind of the Yeah. It's again, we got a whole podcast about this. You know, there there's a there's a place for sequencing, and we use it. Right? But if you use it the right way, that's fine. But if you're just using it as spam, you're using it the wrong way. And many people do that. I mean, how many, Thomas, how many emails do you get a day? Do you even realize you're getting a day that I get a day that are people reaching out to ask if they can work with me, and it has nothing to do with 1 of my businesses. So, like, I don't even know how what they assumed or how they got my name, but they'll they'll basically provide a service that has absolutely nothing with what I do, and it's amazing. And, you know, it's it's it's it's yeah. So it makes it tougher. Right? Because then the people that we really wanna talk to, they're getting so many emails that it makes it tougher to sort of break through, but that's always been a challenge.
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Yeah. A 100 100 percent correct. I and, actually, at this point, I have an AI run my inbox. So, and and I'll give it to you if you like to afterwards. But it it saves me 9, 10 hours a week, and I literally have made 30 emails, new ones a day that I need to look at. And it's Oh, that's tomato. Yeah. Yeah. I'll get it's it's so it it trains. It looks how you use it, asks you questions, and then it then it it's awesome. It's funny.
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That's a really interesting thing. I'd be interested to see it. But, you know, as a salesperson, like, as well as AI can be, you just always are gonna have those hard palpitations that they got it wrong and there's an email you missed on somebody that wanted to run with you. Right? So you'd never know. Vine's different. Right? Like, I I live in it because, you know, we're trying to, like, get trying to have conversations with people. I don't have as many inbounds coming into me as much as I'm the kind of I'm I'm the outbound guy. Right? So, but it'd be interesting to see for sure.
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I will definitely help you get the inbound. That we'll talk about that. Sean, thank you so much. Once again, best way to get ahold of you, as we as we, kinda say goodbye here. But So sean, sean@rotarydigital.net.
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This is really fun. Sounds like we can have a lot of good conversations, outside of this. Happy to happy to have those.
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Thank you. Hang on 1 second. I'm gonna say goodbye while I bring you back in here, but thanks so much, Sean, for coming today. Listen, if this is your first time here, thank you so much for making it here. I hope it's the first of many. And if you've been here before, you rock. I sometimes give away dad points because I'm funny like that. Do you get dad points today, which means you can spend them anywhere. If you can figure that out, everyone in the world would like to know that, especially my kids. They have 1, 000, 000, 000. Listen. I I am on a mission to help entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship. I you have to be able to cut these ties to things that hold you back, things you presume, you know, the fears, the excuses, all the stuff you know you're doing. If you could do this by learning from the journey of our guests and others, you're gonna do way better at it. Check out Sean Ryan once again at sean@rotarydigital.net or rotary, if you say it. I just keep wanting to say that, but sean@rotary or rotarydigital.net, and make sure that you can, see what he can do with newsletters for you. I know I'm gonna have a conversation with him here a moment about it as well. Until we meet again, you know, get out there, unleash your entrepreneur, and thank you for listening to the Never Been Promoted podcast.