Ghosting, Gaslighting, Bread Crumbing, and Other Haunting Tactics

For our Halloween episode, we break down why some people resort to this, instead of communicating their feelings, and talk about the psychology behind it.

Transcript

Marissa: Welcome to the Silver Linings Podcast. I'm Marissa Whitaker. I work with students discussing the relationship between substance use and their well being.

Jen: And I'm Jen Talarico. I'm a senior mental health counselor. We work in Conley counseling and this and we are passionate about understanding the human condition.

Marissa: Sometimes life can be tough. This podcast acknowledges life's complexities by using an optimistic and humorous approach. Nothing is scarier than getting ghosted. In light of our Halloween episode, we will be talking about the hauntingly, confusing ways that we can experience rejection. Instead of communicating their feelings, some people resort to ghosting bread crumbing and even gaslighting the people in their life. Today we break down some of these tactics and talk about the psychology behind them.

Jen: So let's start with bread crumbing. So bread crumbing is giving flirtatious yet noncommittal signals such as breadcrumbs, in order to lure a romantic partner in without expending too much effort. So essentially leading someone on. So, although more common in romantic relationships, this can also translate to friendships and other relationships in our lives. Instead of having an uncomfortable conversation about growing apart, finding different interests, things like that, we leave breadcrumbs rather than having an actual discussion or naturally letting a relationship or friendship fizzle out. So an individual like this would be difficult to pin down for a real day and time commitment to make plans, saying, I'd love to hang out, but it might be more vague, and they might be ignoring or downplaying your attempts to put a specific day or time on a calendar. So, just that, I'll get back to you. Sure, that sounds great. We should do that. So giving you hopes about something that might be coming up, but then either it never comes, or if you do put down a specific day and time as it approaches, they suddenly cancel on you.

Marissa: If somebody who is a breadcrumber is confronted, they might change temporarily. Maybe they'll show some more interest, keep in contact a little more regularly, or maybe even follow through on the plans to get together, which will then give the impression that the relationship between you is finally developing for real.

Jen: You absolutely have done this to me, but I've also done it to you, in all fairness. I think when we've made plans, we kind of joke, who's going to be the first to back out? Or sometimes there's relief when someone else does it first. In a previous podcast, we talked about the importance of connection and introversion and different attachment styles. So a lot of this can be explained in so many different ways. But I think it comes to awareness. Again, just knowing if this is sounding familiar. We are bread crumbing. If you're having it done to you, this is what it looks like. So as you just said, talking about it right, it might lead to change, it might lead to more of an understanding.

Marissa: Yeah, because at the time, plans do sound good. And maybe this is just my introvert coming out or maybe I'm rationalizing my tendency to breadcrumb, but things might sound fun at the time, but then I'm a firm believer in the best plans are canceled plans, which I think this is probably more indicative of my communication styles. So I need to start to be a little more direct, I think, with.

Jen: This term too, a lot of times it is more used for romantic relationships where someone's being led on. So I think all these terms we're going to talk about today can be for all different types of relationships. I think we just typically use them more in romantic relationships.

Marissa: So there's a spectrum of all of this stuff that we're going to be talking about the lower level plan canceling to the fact that just as Jen said, you're leading someone on, you're not being transparent about your feelings. So just because you might hope plans get canceled doesn't necessarily mean you're a breadcrumber. Maybe you just like JOMO or the joy of missing out. So let's switch gears a little bit to ghosting, which is kind of like the older, bolder sibling of bread crumbing, which would be ending a relationship with someone by suddenly withdrawing from all communication without an explanation. This oftentimes has less to do with the person who's being ghosted and more to do with the person doing the ghosting. They don't want to have to deal with the confrontation or the responsibility or even the uncomfortableness of a direct conversation, so they just kind of bail out. And now what's so fascinating about this is this has been around forever, but technology makes this so much easier to do if all we're experiencing is virtual communication with someone who maybe we're meeting on Tinder on a dating website. We don't always view that person as a tangible, real life person. So it's a little easier to go someone who you never really had a solid attachment to in the first place.

Jen: Wow. Which is really interesting because then on the other end of that real life person that is there is left feeling so confused of, was it me? Did I say something? Did I do something? It certainly doesn't leave them feeling good.

Marissa: Yeah.

Jen: Is there ever a time where ghosting is an option or it makes sense for someone to do this?

Marissa: Yeah. And take this with a grain of salt because we're not doing this to enable ghosting. But if you're feeling unsafe and a person makes you uncomfortable, then you might want to go with the safer option for yourself. But I think a lot of this goes back to the fact that we never really teach people how to break things off in a healthy or considerate way. So we learn by experiencing, we learn by seeing these things, which then can perpetuate the cycle.

Jen: Another cycle of an unhealthy or toxic relationship component can be gaslighting. Gaslighting is a psychological form of abuse. When a person or a group causes another to question their sanity, their memories, or really their perception of reality. The term gaslighting itself comes from a 1938 play called Gaslight, which was adapted into films. And essentially there was an individual who was convincing his wife that she was imagining things that were actually happening in an effort to really make her question her sanity and make her go insane. The fact that gaslighting is done with such a high manipulation and it can be slow over time, gaslighting usually starts out in a very what seems healthy and supportive romantic relationship. You might not see those warning signs. So I think it's interesting to think about what does it look like? If we're slowly being manipulated and this is happening, how can we actually see what this is and be able to label it?

Marissa: And by no means is this Gaslighting in its entirety, but telling someone that they're being irrational until they start to believe that it's true, you begin to doubt yourself. Someone might deny saying something. They just start to wear you down until again like it is, it's that wearing down until you start to not believe yourself and believe the other person. They may tell you that others are lying.

Jen: I think also that there's purposeful withholding. So someone might specifically not be giving you something to meet your emotional or your physical needs. There's belittling and discrediting, so they might downplay their abuse. It's not that bad. You're overreacting really trying to minimize what you're questioning or experiencing deflecting. So if you bring up a problem or a concern, a Gaslighter will often change the subject. So that way they don't have to think about taking responsibility for their own actions. And even instead they might blame you, right? So they twist that responsibility onto you. If you say hey, that really hurt my feelings or I'm feeling confused, they might say why can't you take a joke? What's your problem? And you might feel like okay, now my feelings were hurt, but I'm the one apologizing and projecting. So oftentimes a Gaslighter might project their own insecurities or mistakes. So for example, a Gaslighter might become overly possessive and jealous, thinking that their partner is cheating on them, when maybe they're the ones actually having an affair.

Marissa: Yeah, that whole doth protest too much really comes into play. Here other ways that we might hear some Gaslighting so someone saying things like you're imagining things, or don't be so sensitive, or you sound crazy, or you're overreacting. Those are all things that Gaslighters often say to somebody which can then leave you feeling a lot of different emotions.

Jen: Some common signs of being Gaslighted are regularly second guessing yourself, feeling confused, questioning your mental health, questioning your sanity, making excuses for a Gaslighter's behavior. I think this goes back to thinking I was wrong before. I've been doubting myself. I must be wrong. Let me make an excuse. Let me rationalize why they're doing this. Having trouble just with any decision making, just constantly being in a state where you're apologizing or you're anticipating apologizing for something and experiencing anxiety and depression, of course, going along with all of those.

Marissa: And as we're going through this, this is where it really varies from breadcrumbing and ghosting. So not saying that we're minimizing what those two things are, but this can really become a cycle of abuse in relationships, whether they're friendships or romantic relationships. And what really keeps the cycle going is that after all of those things that they do to you, they'll then maybe appear to praise you, say how much you mean to them, really try to get back in your good graces. Why do they do this? Because it's going to confuse you. And if they compliment you, especially around other people, it's going to confuse others. So when you go to your friend saying like, wow, I think my significant other is gaslighting me, something doesn't add up. They're always telling me that I'm crazy, I'm overreacting, that this is like a me problem. If that friend is always hearing them being so nice to you and speak so highly of you, it really goes back to that person doing the gaslighting. This is their ultimate manipulation.

Jen: A lot goes into it.

Marissa: Yeah, it really is. It's not just, Oops, I canceled plans.

Jen: This is mastermind on the gaslighter's part of how do I facilitate this kind of response?

Marissa: Yeah. And so all of this being said, talking about the severity of it, I think sometimes we have a tendency, and I think a lot of us have done this before, we're overusing or especially misusing what the word gaslighting means. Just because someone misspoke or said something doesn't necessarily mean it's gaslighting. So Jen, tell me a little bit more of how is gaslighting being misused?

Jen: I guess I definitely agree with that. I think manipulation itself is more common where gaslighting is more rare. So we see manipulation really every day, if we think about it, with marketing and advertising even on a small level of manipulation young children that haven't learned emotional intelligence to a certain level yet where they're trying to get what they need from caregivers or get away with something or even us. We're probably guilty of doing this ourselves from time to time where we're maybe not intentionally or intentionally trying to get our way with something, get a point across, get someone to agree with us. Where gaslighting is not just an effort to manipulate it's really a significant effort to control others and to control their mental state. So that being said, can someone gaslight without being aware they're doing that? They could. I think this comes back to what was their relationship like with their caregivers? How did they grow up viewing the world? Did they witness manipulation as a means of survival, as a means to get by in relationships? Are they experiencing their own insecurity? But again, the big difference here is ignorance is not bliss. It's not an excuse for this behavior. They are still aware that they're trying to control their partner and that they're putting their partner through purposeful harm in an effort to just be in control in that relationship. On a different level too, I think with that, it's not just dating relationships, as we said earlier, this can be friendships, family systems, but larger scales. I think of cults, if we think about outside looking in, we can look at a cult and think, wow, look at how they're being mind controlled. Look at the way that these cult leaders are just able to manipulate and their reality is controlled. Sometimes I think when we're in these relationships, it's hard to see that. If you walked up to a cult member and said, hey, you're in a cult, this is bad, they're not going to understand, right? So I think sometimes with gaslighting, it's really hard in it to see it, but maybe from the outside perspective, it's easier to see. So this is if you have a friend or a loved one that you think might be experiencing this relationship, it's so important to talk to them about it. Or if you're hearing these things today and it's sounding familiar, to take a step back and really just re examine your relationship.

Marissa: People don't just like, this cult's not working for me, I'm just going to see what else is out there. That's why we have people deprogramming people who are escaping a cult. That's why it's escaping it. I mean, you don't just walk away. It requires an undertaking. And just as you said in the beginning, it happens over time. People just don't give away all their belongings and just go all in in the beginning. It takes time. It takes breaking someone down and then building them back up through gaslighting patterns.

Jen: Of what we witness, right? Thinking back to our love languages, our attachment styles, what did we grow up witnessing? And we're more likely to follow in those patterns if we don't identify them, change them, get some help with them along the way.

Marissa: All of this stuff is always evolving. There's always new names for all of these. Now, Jen, you brought this to my attention. There's ghost lighting, which was something that I had never heard of, which is exactly a combination of ghosting and gaslighting. So someone may ghost you in a relationship or with plans, then they return without explanation or use an excuse as to why they ghosted you in the first place. Or they might even have accusations that confuse you, like, oh, you didn't get my message, you never responded, so I didn't reach back out when I can perfectly see the check mark that you did get the message, but that's besides the point. But sometimes accidents happen. Sometimes we really do miss messages. So just because a plan was canceled or there was an excuse doesn't necessarily mean that someone's ghost lighting you. Sometimes plans just don't work out. The big difference is if they're manipulating and controlling you is very different than, I didn't have my phone.

Jen: I think that goes into another topic, too, that's similar, where I also saw these terms for getting zombied or winter coding. So it's interesting to think about this increase in labels for when relationships don't work out or when there's trouble in a relationship. And just interesting to think about, why are we creating more and more of this terminology? Obviously, we're humans, we want to make sense of our world. We have a desire to label things so we can understand things. So it's interesting to think, is this an effort to find validation in our feelings? Because as you said earlier, Marissa, we don't want to be rejected. Being rejected doesn't feel good. So I wonder if sometimes it is easier to see fault in others that way. Maybe it softens our own personal flow. And I say that with compassion because I've been there. Also, it's hard to think, like we said earlier, what's wrong with me? Why doesn't someone want me? Obviously gaslighting is a little bit different with that, but I think it's just interesting seeing all the terminology coming out and thinking sometimes, are we quick to label something without having those conversations and really understanding? Like you said, was this a misunderstanding? Maybe this wasn't a purposeful, manipulative, negative effort by somebody.

Marissa: Yeah, and if anything, I have learned that. I just thought I was a flake, but apparently I'm a breadcrumber. So I mean, it all depends if the glass is half full.

Jen: It's all about awareness. It's all about awareness.

Marissa: So here's kind of the million dollar question, though. How do we end things or set that boundary with someone so we don't end up gaslighting ghosting bread crumbing them?

Jen: Yeah, we could directly. I think sometimes we need to just have that uncomfortable conversation when we prolong the inevitable. It really does just make it worse for us and probably for the other person, too, having that conversation that's uncomfortable. It can give like even today we might give someone an insight that they will actually use to change themselves and for the better. And then we feel better being more assertive and we grow as well. Also, along with boundary setting, realizing that it's okay to grow apart from friends or from significant others, especially when we're college aged, I think even coming to college, what a transition, experiencing a whole new, different chapter of life. And we're going to change, our friends are going to change, and that's part of life. And that's okay. Especially as we continue to age, realizing that that's okay. And that's a healthy boundary to set. And with a healthy conversation doesn't mean anyone's feelings have to be hurt. Or at least it feels respectful and not just disappearing or purposefully manipulating or purposefully hurting someone. I think one of the serious notes though, is if you do feel like you are being gaslighted or you're in a toxic, unhealthy, unsafe, abusive relationship, that's a completely different boundary to be thinking about. Are you getting support from family, from friends? Sometimes in a gaslighting relationship, we also experience our partner pulling us away from loved ones because it's easier to keep us manipulated when we don't have other people isolate them. Yeah, right. So thinking, are you talking to loved ones? Are you in know, here in Courtland County, we're lucky to have aid to victims of violence. So there are resources here, but I'm sure other counties have something similar as well. This is something that definitely look into. Reach out to your local counseling centers. Find out more information. Because, again, if some of these things are sounding familiar, as much as we're making light of some of them and we're identifying ourselves in some of them, that is, on a serious note, something that really needs to be addressed immediately.

Marissa: Yeah. So where can we find the silver lining in all of this? Do you see any of your own patterns in these behaviors? If so, how do we hold ourselves more accountable? How do you continue to improve awareness to prevent us from engaging in these behaviors in the future? So just something to think about when we all get together sometime soon, even.

Jen: Though Marissa probably can't.

Marissa: Well, I'm washing my hair that day or I would we won't ghost you.

Jen: We will be here next time. Bye.