We sit down with acclaimed Michelin-starred chef and industry legend, Geoffrey Zakarian. Geoffrey invites us into his fascinating world, sharing business insights, entertaining anecdotes, and a wealth of knowledge from his years at the Food Network and managing his own restaurant empire. You'll also get to hear about his love for wine and cocktails, and how they add that touch of magic to any dining experience.
We'll transport you to the charming and simplistic dining scenes of Italy and France, as Geoffrey shares his own experiences and perspectives, drawing parallels and teaching us the subtle art of hospitality.
We also talk about his unique approach to guiding the customer through the daunting task of wine selection and maintaining consistency in his restaurant's presentation and service.
Grab a seat at the table and have a listen!
We sit down with acclaimed Michelin-starred chef and industry legend, Geoffrey Zakarian. Geoffrey invites us into his fascinating world, sharing business insights, entertaining anecdotes, and a wealth of knowledge from his years at the Food Network and managing his own restaurant empire. You'll also get to hear about his love for wine and cocktails, and how they add that touch of magic to any dining experience.
We'll transport you to the charming and simplistic dining scenes of Italy and France, as Geoffrey shares his own experiences and perspectives, drawing parallels and teaching us the subtle art of hospitality.
We also talk about his unique approach to guiding the customer through the daunting task of wine selection and maintaining consistency in his restaurant's presentation and service.
Grab a seat at the table and have a listen!
Hey everyone, thank you for listening to the Drinkscom podcast, the business of online alcohol. I'm your host, brandon Amoroso, and today I'm talking with acclaimed Michelin star chef, jeffrey Zicarian, who has appeared on the Kitchen Chopped, iron Chef America and more so. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 2:Mike Flegge, nice to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1:So before we hop into things here, do you give everybody just a quick background on yourself?
Speaker 2:Well, I've been a professional chef for about 40 years, trained in CIA, worked overseas France usually and then sort of left for New York City in 1981, and I spent about 40 years in New York City working at great restaurants and basically my skill set is French, american.
Speaker 2:But when you open restaurants, you get a real good sense of what it is to be a chef versus a businessman, and so today I'm probably a chef, but I'm still a businessman. First because restaurateuring is a very difficult way to make money, so you really need to branch out. So I'm working a lot on Food Network. I have a couple of shows actually three. We've done like 15 years of Chopped, or 1200 episodes of Chopped, about 400 episodes of the Kitchen. We have a co-host. My wife and I have a production company where we produce some shows for Food Network and we're pitching a couple right now. We also have quite a growing line at QVC and Amazon, most notably QVC. We have about 150 products, both kitchen products and food products, on QVC and that's really very fun as well as a new presence on.
Speaker 2:Amazon with some other products as well, so we're quite busy. We're opening a restaurant in Qatar hopefully this year, and we drink a lot of wine in this family, so obviously, you see my Instagram. I do quite a few cocktails, because I think people really love to.
Speaker 1:You know sort of know the history of a cocktail. These are mostly classic.
Speaker 2:I don't do crazy ones, I let that, for you know the Instagram junkies that I want to do. I do stuff that I consider real great classics that you should probably know if you're going to host a party, and so I love doing that, and so that's. I don't know if I forgot a few things, probably, but that's where.
Speaker 1:I am now. No, that's awesome background. I have a thousand questions for you on the business side of things, but we'll save that for another podcast. One thing I wanted to jump in on that you mentioned does? You obviously have the sort of passion for cooking but you sort of had to take on the businessman component as well? Where did wine and cocktails come into play? Because obviously the two go sort of hand in hand in most restaurants. Where did that sort of come into the arc of your career? Because obviously now you have like a wine with wine insiders and that's up for an award on KVC.
Speaker 2:I think that it does go hand in hand, brian, but I think that for me it's you know there's the joy of entertaining.
Speaker 2:And you know chefs are known for their food and kitchens and you know the high pressure and you know the show is now up with the bear and all this stuff. It's about the chef and the kitchen, but it really is almost to me probably be one of few chefs, but there are some. I strongly believe that it's more 60-40 front of the house, back of the house. So I think the front of the house experience is more important than the food, and I'm not saying that because the food has to not be good. What I'm saying as a chef for me to put food out to the dining room is relatively easy, meaning, of course you're going to get a brigade and a chef and train them, but I have all that wherewithal. It's a task that someone on my team in the kitchen knows up and down right and does it a million times. We just train and then we watch it like clocks, the front of the house once the food leaves. You know you need to set the front of the house up the same way, but it's much more difficult, okay? So let me give you a scenario. So I'll have a line cook that will do 200, you know 200 covers, say 150 covers, and there's 10 items. So the 10 items will be spread between five or six people, either hot or cold. And now a cold person will do the same salad, same crab, same scallop dish 30 times one night. Puts it on the pass, waiter comes, it's gone right.
Speaker 2:A lot of stress, but it's basically timing, having your mise en place, knowing your stuff, and once you have everything ready, it's like a ballet. You know it works. Here's what the kitchen doesn't see. The kitchen has no interaction with the customer. There's no really nasty person. There's no ignorant person. There's no person that's constantly needs attention. There's no person that's live. There's no person that changes their order three days. There's none of that interaction. So in the course of a night you'll have 150 people. There'll be maybe three interactions at minimum with your front of the house staff, three to five. You'll look at a five to six hundred interactions every night with a staff member and not just one staff member bartender the waitress the
Speaker 2:waiter, the server, maybe the back of the house guy, the coffee guy. You know it's all these questions and needs and I need this. Can you get me that I have that? No soy, no gluten. My wife doesn't like this. Can you but, but, but, but, but can I have this with that?
Speaker 2:It's all that matrix is very tiring and hard for the front of house, so that's why I put a lot of attention to that. Right, I make it very easy for them and what customers want most is they want to have what they want to have when they want to have it. Now that sounds like the customer is always right and that, to me, is when I end that conversation. Right now. The customer is right. The customer gets what they want and usually they're misinformed or they're not informed enough about food, but it doesn't really matter. Right, they get what they want and what a customer wants. If you give it to them without any question or any sort of hesitation, you own that customer. He's yours or she's yours. It's like a simple equation. As soon as they're resistance, they're going to start to like, needle the staff and be not very nice, and the first thing they really want when they sit down to me is a beverage right, they want a beverage.
Speaker 2:Let me get you a cocktail. Let's start with a beverage, shall we that kind of thing? And then, once they get that beverage, then they know what to do with their hands.
Speaker 2:It gets very awkward, like you're sitting there, they don't know what you know. It's sort of like that. That first date, once you get a beverage, same as a cocktail party. The first thing to do when I have cocktail parties, the first person you see before you see me, is a way or full of drinks already ready. So you don't come near me without a cocktail. I think you're hitting. How are you? Does it seem great? I see you've got one of my new cocktails, cheers. You know that's what makes someone relax. Those two movements in both of them are in hospitality. There's nothing to the food right.
Speaker 1:Nothing. The difference for me between like waiting two to five minutes for your first drink at a restaurant to waiting 20 to 25 can be the entire difference between how the rest of that night goes.
Speaker 2:It can be fast, unless it's something that is just conjured up and this bartender and the table said listen, make us four gin drinks, whatever you want.
Speaker 1:Now, if you go to Angel's share, one of those places- in New York.
Speaker 2:That's great. Just pick your liquor and they'll pick four drinks for you. That's different. That's a different thing. This is you gotta get some sparkling water, martini wine, whatever. Just get it to the table. You've won your first battle. So really, I realize that, as when I open restaurants, I'm like, holy shit, I'm way too much in the kitchen. So I started going on and I started hiring a bar chef, a chef that really know how to make drinks, and I hired I had extra bartenders, not less, because the worst thing is waiting for bartender.
Speaker 1:You're excuse me, excuse me and then I'll look at you.
Speaker 2:You know they try to act like they're busy. Yeah it's not good, you know, if you sell it tell someone to wait at the bar which?
Speaker 1:if you're all there.
Speaker 2:I don't like that. However, if there's a lounge, better. So we always have lounges. Listen, if you're all here, we'll sit you. Would you like to have cocktail? First you can sit the lounge. Yeah, I love cocktail, but that cocktail can't take more than five minutes to come out because you'll lose them on the first interaction, which is with beverage. The first interaction in a restaurant or bar or hotel isn't food, it's beverage. It's by the bartender or the cocktail server, it's not food. So that has to be so important. That's why I really went overboard. I had always two bartenders, two bar backs, so those bartenders never had to reach and look for anything. Had it, it was more expensive but they made twice the amount of money and twice the amount of drinks because it was quick and we train the people what to serve.
Speaker 2:If you go into the theater listen, you want to go to the theater. You're not going to have a cruise cafe. We recommend these. These are batch cocktails that are great, so that we're working in concerts to get that person to come. And you that's the most important thing a drink, a beverage or something. So for me it's beverage center my whole life, and then the bell one. Often it worked. I'm like I just check those up. People are happy, so they go downstairs to sit or they go to the restaurant to sit. After the beverage they're like, wow, this place is great.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to see the menu right yeah and and then honestly, that's why I love it so much, it's really one of the keystones of hospitality is that interaction, way before you see a food menu or chef or anything. And then then for me, if that's great, my food is going to be better. Not because I'm going to do, I'm going to work hard, I'm like no, the customer's happy, they're. They're pleased they're getting attention and they say can I have that steak? But I don't want any sauce, this one's steak, nothing on it. Of course you can't. And then they're really happy. And then, even if the steak is just good, it becomes very good.
Speaker 1:But where it began began with a beverage, a cocktail, glass of wine, really almost instantaneous, without being too pushed so when you're conceptualizing a new concept or or a new restaurant, does the alcohol come first and then the food?
Speaker 2:usually when I'm drinking, I have a great idea. So, yes, okay, um, you know it's, I'll tell you what it is. It's, it's, it's the opposite. It's like I'll see an image, uh, in a book, or I'll see an image in another restaurant, or I'll see an old cafe or see you know, something will strike me, or a piece of silverware that's old, or I'll have a drink, or I'll have something in a restaurant that's an old, a classic dish or a cocktail or a classic food, and I'm like, wow, I haven't tried that, I haven't tried out, I'm gonna make something up. I haven't tried a uh, crab, classic crab cocktail in a long time, like where it's in the glass with the shred of lettuce and the mayonnaise. It's very old-fashioned. And so I'll see the glass and I'll get a vibe and I'll have it. I'm like you know that's good, but I could make mine much better, and then I think I'll like it.
Speaker 2:What do I want to do in making this better? And then I'll start like thinking of recipes, of stuff that I've had that could have been better. So I try to choose things. That is a great idea. I haven't seen one of these in 20 years. I want to, I'm gonna make. I'm gonna make my version of this because I can make it better, and then it just starts like that. But it's sometimes not food, it's sometimes a vibe. You know, you're sitting this gorgeous place and I just came back from Florence.
Speaker 2:I was in Florence at Cannes, saint-tropez and Alessio these small villages in Italy and France, and this just oozed with charm, right, and you see where Trattoria's in New York City, how they try to mimic these Trattoria's that they see, because it's the same bottles, architects, the old people in black and white photographs, the square tables, and then you see, you go to, you know, you go to restaurants, you know, this is what it was, a complete copy, which I'm fine with. But what they don't have is that, the sense of charm, you know. And so I mean, all you do is you just bombarded with charm and simplicity. But it's simplicity done, right, it's just, it's so easy to mimic but it's so hard to do, correct, because it's such simple, functional things, like when you're putting a coaster down. You don't put a coaster down under a wine glass, right, because there's no condensation, the only, and you can't swore. You can't swore or move it. So there's all these little things. They know exactly how to do it, and I was having dinner and I was watching this ballet. This was a Trattoria, right, very nice photograph.
Speaker 2:But the service was the guys in a white tux, black tie, peck of all. As for soda water, sparkling water, ginger ale, whatever, my kids and we all have water. So they brought over water glasses and there's six of us and like two has sparkling and three had white glasses of water, of flat water, excuse me. And I'm like, okay, here we go nine times out of ten. First pours right from the bottom. Second pours from the other side. They pours part in there, you know flat, like oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, and you like this right, it happens all the time. It's like clockwork.
Speaker 2:So their solution was genius. So they had it was a blue and white, beautiful pastels, and they had a coaster. It went and had a coaster for the water, which is correct. This is condensation, but the coaster is white and blue and the white met regular water. When they flipped it over and put the glass, it means sparkling. So the server had an indication there's two white coasters, two blue coasters. He knew exactly where the water and the sparkling water right and he didn't have to. Some people use two glasses. They use a stem glass for sparkling and this is all the same glass. But I said, wow, that is so genius. I've never seen that before. It's just a way to help the person. Whoever wants to fill the water glasses up, whatever server's there, they know not to mess up sparkling and flat. So that's the kind of stuff I look for all the time. I actually took the coaster and I wrote down, because I take coasters everywhere, but this particular guy had to write down why I like this coaster. I said dual-colored coaster is not to confuse flat and sparkling. So it's that kind of stuff that makes simple dining so special.
Speaker 2:That started with the beverage, but the water service is like now it's turned into this. It's almost stressful, right, because I mean it used to be get water. You know like I would come with a pitcher with towel wrapped around it, fill everybody's water like in a country club, right, and that was what water was. And they poured out the side because the spot always leaked and I don't know why. Someone has to figure that out. But that was water service. And then we became infatuated with all this sparkling and flat and this and from the tap and you charge for water. Now you don't charge for water. It's become so pretentious and stupid. I mean it's water, right, and I like water from a bottle, not plastic.
Speaker 1:One bottle simply because I want to hear that click and know it's real.
Speaker 2:So that's my only the way I feel it's gone with water. Water to come down this fight. We charge for water. I'm like, yeah, it's not free, it costs three dollars.
Speaker 1:It's like free bread versus paid bread.
Speaker 2:Free bread. I'm actually I as a restaurateur, I am thrilled that we now can charge for bread.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you why Because it's wasteful. I mean, we bake bread. If you throw away, you can't predict how much bread. Well, you get a kind of. We have one kind of bread that I worked painlessly to. It's like a parka house roll meets a like a sour cream. It's almost like a parka house and an onion souffle merged. It's not because it's fine, but it's so. It's so not possible not to eat it when you taste it. So that's all we do. We bake it three times a day.
Speaker 2:We know exactly how many lunch comes we have, and then we have a tray that's gluten-free small one, but we charge for it and the reason being is, I mean, it's expensive, it's a lot of labor to make that and it's a de minimis charge. It's like two dollars, right, but that allows you to sort of do extra work, make bread nicer and not, like you know, you get bags of bread and every day they just go stale and make breadcrumbs. It's a very it's expensive. But you know, for me, wine, cocktails, alcohol, it's not just something that we make money from, it's this whole, it's this whole culture of drinking and consumption and alcohol it brings about. It's almost like a movie set you bring over cocktail. It's like. It's like romance. The customer wants the movie set of the romance of the cocktail, versus more than the cocktail. It's like an act of kindness and an act of oh, here we are, let's have a few martinis, and who hasn't seen 50 movies where they have a martini and it's cool and you want to be like that.
Speaker 1:That's what it is.
Speaker 2:It's just they want to play out what they're doing. They're off of work and they want to just enjoy the act of alcohol and wine.
Speaker 1:How do you help your customers cut through all the clutter and noise and find the perfect drink or the perfect?
Speaker 2:wine. I sort of tell them without telling them. So it's hard. I mean, I love wine and listen, there's 400 varietals in Italy. It's not possible to know wine. There are a few people who know it, but my wine, wine consumption started, like God, early, late 70s. So there was French in America, in Spanish, then Italy became popular, then Australia and then New Zealand, and then you know wherever California, you know Virginia, I mean.
Speaker 2:So now there's so much wine in the world it is really, it's really impossible. So what I try to do is the servers really are everything, so we try to find out what they're looking for. Right, and if we can find out what they're looking for, listen, you know we love the salmon. If you need a wine pairing with that, a glass or bottle, I'd be happy to help. Just tell me sort of what you lean towards. That eliminates a lot of anxiety and we try to have as many bottles by the glass as possible. The reason being there's a, you know there's a. If you buy a grand, a Grand Cru or a premier Grand Cru, they're originally basically asking you decide which selection in the import order, perhaps in stability around the time period if we had wool and then Tim and I have a group of tours that you know.
Speaker 1:They have a group of tours to go and believe in.
Speaker 2:Alyssa, that one and I have the other one. Both are crisp and delicious. You don't have to tell them what the price of this scene. One's 15, one's 40. You know what? I'll have the 15. I'll have that too. That sounds great.
Speaker 2:If you can do that, you don't have to. You can't educate them on wine. You can, but they have a limited time and most people I would say 95% of people have no clue. They just drink by grape. Oh, I like a Chardonnay, I like a Bordeaux, I like a glass of bread, I like quinoa, I like. What do you like? I mean, that's where you are, that's the level of sophistication which is fine.
Speaker 2:So that's what we try to do we try to like ask one question and help them with a very substantial wines by the glass program which satisfies, I'd say, 60% of the wine drinkers. 70% have the glass or two. It's great for us, right and record that we don't have any waste anymore. It's also good for the customer.
Speaker 2:And then the customer will like then maybe do some price oh, $15 a glass then why don't we get a bottle? That's how I do it. I don't get any more. I don't let the sommelier go on and on, and on, and on and on, Because eventually it's a turn off. Now there are people that know wine and want that son and want this and want to talk to them and want to have an interaction. So we don't stop that.
Speaker 1:But 95% of people don't want that.
Speaker 2:They want a really nice glass of water, end of story, and that's what we try. Or cocktail, but the wine program is something that obviously when you're having a cocktail that's somewhat before right but it doesn't have to be. I had martini and just kept the martini and had a steak with the martini. So we like to let the customer have what they want but we give them enough directive with the wines by the glass and that's something I learned as a business man. I used to not like a lot of wines by the glass because of waste, but I realized that it really eases the customer's way to have a glass of water. If you see everybody having glasses, it's really great. When you walk in a restaurant, everybody's having wine. People walk by that they're like honey, let's get some wine. It's just the way it is. It's like we're all programmed to do that?
Speaker 1:How does it impact the actual financials of the restaurant, because I've always heard that restaurants make money on the alcohol. Is that true or is that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it depends on you. It's all about look, wine. You have 100% to 300% markup. I'm always the believer of a lower markup, some more bottles. So the glasses of wine are very good. If you sell them by the glass, it's a good value for you, it's a good value for the customer. Make money on water If you're charging for water. Yes on wine, alcohol yes, but here's the caveat. You actually make a good amount of money on coffee and beverage. Here's the caveat.
Speaker 2:On alcohol, it's almost impossible. There's so much theft and bad making of cocktails and over pouring it's almost criminal. So what we do is we make a very strict bar program. Everything is jigger poured and everybody bitches and moans about it at first and some people don't even want to work if it's jigger poured. So I'm free pour it. I'm like, no, we don't do that. Free pouring is free pouring money down the drain. And here's the big thing about bartending and really doing a proper jigger pour. If your bartender quits the next day, you're going to have a fresh bartender in there and he's just given the recipes and he'll have the drink down. Same taste, stay in the field. Same acid, because you've done all the work for them. Right, it actually is easy to drink People. It's easier when people leave, because you can't say, hey, a little vodka to listen, no, so it's really important that's in place, then you vodka, then you beverage cost should be about in 20s and a low 20s depends on kind of restaurant Food.
Speaker 2:You know that you look at for food and beverage to be around. You know 26, 28 combined. So a lower alcohol, wine food is probably going to be the highest. But if you don't, if you don't jigger, pour and measure, you're dead in the water. You're going to lose. You're going to lose for your shirt.
Speaker 1:And also glassware.
Speaker 2:I see it all the time. You know, a proper martini glass isn't one of these giant V-glass is like son of sex in the city. This 10 ounces of alcohol, you can fill that up, it's almost 10 ounces. It's insane that people don't know that. They know it and you charge $14, you're losing money. So you need a proper martini glass six ounces, and you don't want to have people have one giant martini. You want them to have two correct cold martinis that are cold from the first to the last. You can't do it with giving so much. So normalization of large portions of alcohol and wine glasses is a complete setup for disaster. You don't lose your shirt, right. So what we usually do is we have glasses that are old fashioned, like Nicanor. There's stuff that actually holds the correct amount of glass and we price it accordingly. So the proper martini should be four or five ounces total max, not even.
Speaker 2:And it should be about $14 or $15. So you entice them to have another one, right? So that's what we try to do and, if I can, I put little marks on my glasses like either a G or dots. That are decorative, but the G is five ounces to the G is five ounces.
Speaker 2:So there's never any problem over pouring and the smaller the glass, the less problems you'll have with people saying that's it. So if you give a big, a big Bordeaux glass and you pour five ounces, you're like, okay, but that's. I can't help that, but that's just the way people think. So you put the same glass, less smaller glass, but the same amount in it. People think it's more. I mean. So we try not to make those mistakes. We try not to shoot ourselves on the foot. We don't.
Speaker 2:We always pour by jigger. We have small glassware that's correct for. And we're very, we're very vigilant on watching the bar, because that's where everything happens, including people giving away drinks and Steve. I mean it's just it's almost impossible to police a hundred percent. But if you can get the main use down and you get the size of the glass down and you train well and you keep on top of it, you're going to eliminate most of the problems. And, by the way, the customer loves when you do that. They love to see jigger pouring. They think it's cool. But we're not doing it to be cool, we're doing it to give you the same Manhattan that you had three weeks ago when you came and it was a different bartender. It's not about the bartender. You know, jane, she makes it better.
Speaker 1:That's because Jane's giving you a free drink.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course, and you tip it around with tea Probably takes two drinks off the bill. Anyways, that's I know what the question was. What was the question?
Speaker 1:I honestly don't remember at this point either, but I feel like it's all the little things that add up and it's the culmination of so many different aspects that make the experience, and wine is a big component of them, but there's a whole bunch of other things that go into it and consistency is so important. There's nothing more frustrating than finding a really great restaurant, loving it, going back to it and then having a wildly different experience, especially if you're bringing other people with you to it.
Speaker 2:I remember you said it was so good and I had it on. So yeah, I mean the consistency is the hardest thing we do. I mean, imagine we get up every day and the restaurant's clean and it's empty, and then all this produce and stuff comes in at five or six in the morning. You got to break it down, prep it, clean it, clean it up, label it, get it ready for dinner. It takes all day with the whole staff and you put it in the pieces and it's all perfect, and then you have two of any covers and it's clean up and it's gone. You start that every day. There's no inventory of the inventory is salt pantry products. Everything else you have to do is manufacturing every day.
Speaker 2:We make a very complex machine every day and at the end of the day it's gone. It's so fresh, it's so hard to deliver consistency, and the only way is strict hierarchy of behavior, a strict hierarchy of recipes, both back of the house and front of the house. And today what really helps is this, you know we have video.
Speaker 2:So we can actually make a video of my demonstrating a dish accompanied by the recipe in grams, and you cannot deviate. So the deviation years ago would be like, ah, you left something out or whatever and you try to figure it out by tasting, but now you have a recipe and a video. We'll go back to video, especially if you're ahead of. You want to teach someone a dish and you have a restaurant in Qatar, you make a video of it and you send it to them and then you talk about it and then they'll send you it back, complete it, and then you have this way of talking to them. That's very literal and right away. So that's a great tool we use. So that's back of the house, Front of the house is the exact same. Everything is measured, poured, labeled, you know to the nth degree, recipe it out, watched, being very calculated, because it's so hard to make money and it's so hard to be consistent. And yeah, I hate to go to a restaurant Like I, Jesus, it was slow.
Speaker 2:What happened here and I can tell right away. You know it was a Saturday night. I'm like, oh, oh, it's a Sunday. Staff right, Sunday is always the weekday. Oh, it's a Sunday. Y'all God, I can tell it. One down here, one down there, you just I know, and people say what happened? I'm like, get down to you guys. I'm like how do you know this?
Speaker 2:Trust me, I know how I can tell, Because that person is taking five tables instead of three and you just can't do as good.
Speaker 1:You know everyone struggles with that.
Speaker 2:Everyone. Three-store Michelin restaurant struggle with it, Less the personnel issue because they over-personnel that's their genre, but everyone struggles with that. I mean it's just a hard thing to do the same thing every day, be excited about it and really make it feel like, wow, that's delicious, you know. And that's why I really think that people really want to do that. That helps a lot, too, because they're self-motivated, that they want to make it perfect.
Speaker 1:Well, I feel like just in wine, how, under a certain price point, there's a quality threshold, but once you're beyond that quality threshold, it's everything else that goes into it it's the weight of the bottle, it's the label, it's the presentation, and I feel like, especially in a city like New York, where I literally walk outside and there's 25 restaurants staring at me in the face, like quality is almost expected and it's all the other things that go into the experience and what makes a great restaurant versus just a good restaurant.
Speaker 2:The second word we started talking about is that it's really the presentation of your staff toward the customer before they even order on the menu.
Speaker 1:That they're going to make a decision about you.
Speaker 2:They're going to judge you. Oh, this place I love, this is going to be great. You feel it Right? It's that first five seconds. You're like wow, something's going on here and that happens. Just the opposite. You're walking like not good.
Speaker 1:No one ever wants to go into an empty restaurant.
Speaker 2:Well, it's empty at 5.30, right, and I actually think, for I tell people this one time I make reservations at 6 o'clock all the time, and I'll tell you why. The people are fresh, staff is fresh. You're eating at the right time so you can function later on. Cooks are fresh. No one's harried, it's not crazy.
Speaker 2:You start to see the restaurant fill up as you come, but you've had sort of probably the best of the best of the uh, the feel from the staff and the food and everybody's like not tired At 10 o'clock. 9 o'clock, you get tired, it's just human. It's just human. It's just it's so much healthier for you to eat early.
Speaker 1:My only issue with the 6 o'clock is the restaurants that you have to leave then, and if you want to continue on with the dinner and so you're like, well, you're two and a half hour time is good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's if you want to stay. Like for me. I have a strict rule at 90 minutes. There's nothing more to talk about after 90 minutes. Either you're drunk or you're stuffed, or you got someone to go. See I'm going to go to another bar and have a cocktail after. My favorite dessert is go to a really good cocktail bar after.
Speaker 1:Just because you try the 6 o'clock reservation.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you. And then, for your body, you go to bed and you eat sugar and wine and drink and you go to bed and tan a lot of night. Dude, it's not good. If you're 25, 30, yeah, but once you get your 40s and you just it's a recipe for, you know, not feeling so to the next day.
Speaker 1:So a couple of fun questions here for you before we roll things out in the wine space. What would you say your favorite wine memory is?
Speaker 2:There's so many wine memories but they're always based upon a celebration memory. But I do remember having dinner at Bern's steakhouse one of my birthdays and we got a year and my I think my dad passed even passed away over a couple years after that, or longer actually and we got a wine from my year of birth and we got a wine from his year of birth, which was in the 20s, and we just did a compare and contrast and which is like such a spectacular thing to see.
Speaker 2:And then we have one more from someone else's at the table and All our birthdays were the same and just to see what's happened. And we talked about the wine of humanity. You know that you can drink something from when your dad was alive on his birthday. It was very special and I remember that. And I don't remember what we ate I think we ate steak. What it was? The ability to have a wine list that could capture that magic for you. You can't do that many places, I mean they have such depth of wine.
Speaker 2:That's the fun thing to do and most of their bottles and these little splits you know they'll make them that much anymore. So you can get a split from the 1908 and 1819 20. I mean, it's insane, and you know the little bottle and you might get. You go back at three minutes out of wine Before it just goes first, amazing that you're drinking this wine. So that's, that's one of my favorite actual wine memories, but I have so many. Yes, me one.
Speaker 1:That one came to mind because it was very touching with my father myself comparing of all the people I've asked that question, the common theme is it's about the circumstances or the date or the people that you're with or other things around it, and I think that's what what makes wine special in general is the ability to share it with others and make those connections and lasting moments.
Speaker 2:It's what we sit, you know. It's what we sit at the table for. It's life around the table. Everything's done around the table everything good and bad.
Speaker 1:If you could share a bottle of anyone, who would it be in and what would you drink, doesn't? It doesn't have to be wine either.
Speaker 2:I looked at the question. I Mean I have something to do. I admire and you know what I love to have my, my Mother and father live and share a bottle of wine with me out of this. I've done that already, right, so I would. I would love to perhaps Sit and talk to someone like I admire. I probably love to Sit around a piano with.
Speaker 1:Keith Jarrett and open up great bottle of wine.
Speaker 2:I know he loves wine. Is an incredible piano player jazz and I. You know he's like a. It's like Mike, whether like I can't say I listen to him nonstop. I just love his music so much.
Speaker 1:Just to chat with him about how he creates and Share a great bottle of wine and I treat have you had one of those moments where somebody you've looked up to or have really well-respected and they come to one of your restaurants, or you've had Starsprout absolutely, and I mean I'm very grateful, I mean to have the people like the customers.
Speaker 2:I've had presidents and every movie star and all I was like and you know you always know you ask the staff, right, you know they're all giddy and like that and yes, that, how is it how we shoot? And Most of the time they're like, yes, that's the same watch. You didn't look at me when I talked to them, like this is just and the guys are really amazing and the girls that are really amazing. They're like treat the staff really great, really really, really great. And so I've had a couple of those people that like are so nice and so sweet and then a lot, a lot of them Are not, they're just like they think they're. You know, there's no humility at all, but I've had a couple of people that are sort of you know, when I went up to table say hi, I was like usually.
Speaker 2:I'm not, I don't have a problem, it's just another person. But I've had a couple of those instances. One of them was a Paul McCartney and there's another one. I Met Ronald Reagan when he was at. He came to the circuit this is Early 80s and that was that. That was a big deal. That was like wow, he was just coming out. But I usually don't get, I don't usually Stop talking and try some of them or I'm really like that starts right now. But there's a couple people that I really like. You know, holy shit, you know, yeah, it was great, really great. Shumkhani was another. It's kind of a restaurant. When I was I held his door for he and his wife. I'm like, oh, like, you know, I know everybody, every man or guy, that that time has that shit. You know he's there a shumkhani chance and I'm a big one. But it's just so cool to see people in life like this.
Speaker 2:But it's really more interesting how they treat the staff hmm, everybody's just a human at the end of the day, so I'm all hungry, but it's I, I, not yourself, and treat your staff and I always ask how was it or how was she? And it's just fascinating to hear the responses, because they have a reaction like I go. You know they're forced to wait on this person.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for joining us. This was super interesting. Really appreciate you coming on. And before we hop off here, can we you let everybody know where they can find you and all your products, that you?
Speaker 2:And thank you so much for taking the time. It's great talking you. A great questions. By the way, I'm I didn't talk too much. I think I went over my time.
Speaker 1:Now we could keep going for another hour.
Speaker 2:Dot com. You just type in my name and you can watch me on Food Network On chopped in the kitchen. Co-host and my Instagram, jeffers a carry, I try to teach. Drinks, food, family and Sometimes, sometimes a little mixture of all.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna have to another follow you on Instagram.
Speaker 2:Thank you, man. I appreciate the time.
Speaker 1:Thanks as always. Thanks everybody for listening. I'm Brandon morosa. You can find me at drinkscom and we will see you next time.