In this episode, Brandon sits down with Quinton Jay, the founder and managing director of Bacchus Consulting Group and a seasoned expert in the beverage alcohol industry. Throughout their conversation, Quinton Jay shares a wealth of insights and experiences, making this episode a valuable resource for anyone interested in the wine industry.
Together, they delve into a wide range of topics, including the evolving consumer trends impacting the wine industry, the profound influence of technology, and the numerous challenges and opportunities that wineries face in today's dynamic landscape. Quinton Jay's extensive knowledge and perspective offer listeners a deeper understanding of the wine business.
Throughout the episode, you'll also discover the importance of storytelling and customer engagement in the wine industry, the complexities of inventory management and distribution, the evolving role of e-commerce with a focus on platforms like Shopify, the significance of marketing and legal compliance for wine businesses, and Quinton's personal favorite wine memories and standout bottles.
Whether you're a seasoned professional in the beverage alcohol industry or simply curious about the world of wine, this episode provides valuable takeaways and a comprehensive view of the industry's challenges and opportunities. Don't miss this enlightening conversation with Quinton Jay.
Timestamps
In this episode, Brandon sits down with Quinton Jay, the founder and managing director of Bacchus Consulting Group and a seasoned expert in the beverage alcohol industry. Throughout their conversation, Quinton Jay shares a wealth of insights and experiences, making this episode a valuable resource for anyone interested in the wine industry.
Together, they delve into a wide range of topics, including the evolving consumer trends impacting the wine industry, the profound influence of technology, and the numerous challenges and opportunities that wineries face in today's dynamic landscape. Quinton Jay's extensive knowledge and perspective offer listeners a deeper understanding of the wine business.
Throughout the episode, you'll also discover the importance of storytelling and customer engagement in the wine industry, the complexities of inventory management and distribution, the evolving role of e-commerce with a focus on platforms like Shopify, the significance of marketing and legal compliance for wine businesses, and Quinton's personal favorite wine memories and standout bottles.
Whether you're a seasoned professional in the beverage alcohol industry or simply curious about the world of wine, this episode provides valuable takeaways and a comprehensive view of the industry's challenges and opportunities. Don't miss this enlightening conversation with Quinton Jay.
Timestamps
Hey everyone, thank you for listening to the drinkscom podcast the business of online alcohol. I'm your host, brandon Amoroso, and today I'm talking with Quinton Jay, who's the founder and managing director of Baca's Consulting Group, a veteran VC who has run well-known wineries and private equity funds. Really excited to have you on with your vast array of background and expertise in beverage alcohol space, quinton. Awesome thanks, brandon. So before we jump into some of the topics we want to cover here, can you give everybody just the quick background and, I guess, tldr on yourself, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm a consultant in the wine space and, with the specialization in the ops and the finance side, a little background sort of, if you want to call it my journey is. I started it Bank of America many, many years ago. I did commercial lending and then moved into special assets. That's when good loans go bad. I did that for a couple years, so you kind of saw the life cycle of loans and then, like any good kid back in the day, we used to go to business school or at least apply to business school and get the best one that you possibly can and then go for a couple years for your midlife, couple years of studying and kind of coming back out. Then I got picked up by the Coca-Cola company, and how that kind of happened is I wanted to learn about brands and one of the best brand marketing companies in the world and then I got. That's how.
Speaker 2:Then I got into the wine industry, as I was picked up as the general manager for Bonnie Dune Vineyards and so I worked for Randall Graham for a while and did that for a little bit and then I started up my consulting company. Afterwards I was with Randall Buffer two years. We used to call him Dune years and similar to Dog Years so in your life and working, which is kind of fun. But I learned a lot and so I kind of applied some of those skill sets I learned there and then just worked with different clients up and down the valley Etude I worked at Etude, which is one of the wineries, wine brands that actually kicked off the whole sort of selling your brand to another company, be it large or small. So that was very, very, very exciting to kind of be there and then working at Bairinger Blast for a while because they were the acquiring company and how sort of small company gets picked up by a super big company and how you meld them together. And then.
Speaker 2:So then I went to go get one of my clients wanted to hire me full time. It was really hard to do because I really enjoyed consulting and sort of the problem solving but they made me an offer I can refuse and I was a general manager, president for Arteza. And then I got picked up by I said, did that for about four or five, six years. And then I got picked up by Sam Rothman whose family used to own Seagrams. They started a private equity firm called Bacchus Capital Management. They just happened to have the same name. That Bacchus guy gets around, and then I did that for about seven years and then I left and continued consulting and then I kind of have different type of clients. By 80% of my client base is there's a problem, right, that's why people call us to help them solve problems. And the other ones are like hey, I'm doing pretty well, how do I get better? So, which is kind of nice. Those are the fun ones.
Speaker 1:Well, you've obviously stuck in the industry for some time, so why, like? What makes the wine industry so exciting for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think at Coca-Cola.
Speaker 1:I learned a lot.
Speaker 2:But the wine industry is focused. The wine industry is focused on adult beverage. You kind of know who and what and there's just something magical about wine. I mean, you can have a cocktail by yourself, you can have a beer by yourself. Most likely you cannot have a bottle of wine by yourself, at least let's not. So I think that's the people aspect that makes it so unique and sort of special, if you want to call it. So. That's why I kind of like it and I just think as a business I think it's a kind of a very intriguing, interesting, difficult business to be in. So I think that that's kind of what's kept me around and kind of kept my interest for so long.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I can appreciate that. So, in terms of all of the various sort of areas that you've been able to touch, given that experience and, more so, wine generalist capabilities per se, which I think provides a lot of context that you wouldn't necessarily get if you were super deep in just one area of the wine industry, what are you looking at or what are you excited about going into next year or the next three to five years? What are some of the things that those listening should be paying attention to, or in and around the wine category, or just beverage alcohol in general?
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably the most exciting thing for me is that. I mean one of the positives if there's such a word about it, about COVID is that it accelerated direct to consumer in all the categories and it even dragged kicking and screaming, the wine industry or the adult beverage industry into that space. Now you're having part of. It is the share stomach thing that people are going after. We can talk a little bit more about that later, but I think one of the things I'm really excited about in learning is that it's here to stay.
Speaker 2:How do we connect deeper with consumers? How do we give them the experience that we have in the industry? That is really difficult because of adult signature required and sort of where does that responsibility lie? I mean, one day I'm thinking that there might be a box that comes to your door and there's often there's a facial recognition thing and only you can open the box kind of like a mission impossible thing, and I mean so those things excite me is that I think that finally the industry is starting to look up and say, wow, how do I connect more with these consumers? Because I think initially, since all the business was coming through the tasting room, after that experience, how do you sort of keep that magic going? So I think that that's part of the, but that's an onerous upon the wine industry or the wineries to kind of keep that going and sort of kind of keep their customers engaged. So I think that that's probably one of the things I'm really excited about.
Speaker 1:And, given the other technological advancements or limitations that the wine industry has faced, it feels like, at least over the last couple of years, there's been a lot of progress and strides towards giving the alcohol industry the same tools and capabilities that other non-regulated industries have, whether it's the companies that sell coffee or shoes online, like, why can't we use the same things that they use? And I feel like those other industries provide a well obviously different, and wine is different in various ways also depending on price point and the type of wine. Because you're not buying your two buck chuck D to C, and if you are, then I don't know how you're making those financials work, but maybe there could be a limited edition, two buck chuck, but correct. And then you have the higher end stuff, for there's waiting lists for years and years and years, and so actually, what I've, not to go off on a complete tangent, but I find it kind of interesting, those that have that sort of power in the market.
Speaker 1:Yep, if I'm them, you know how do I think about technology, because I don't really need to grow or market it's. I have a literally a waiting list of 10 years. Yeah, I protect that moving forward. So you have, like these opposite sides of the spectrum, but I think your more traditional verticals that don't have these rules and regulations can provide a lot of inspiration for for how wineries and how alcohol companies can think about creating. You know, direct to direct to consumer experiences, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you know, I think that there's this sort of this weird sort of bell shaped curve, that sort of happens. Right, you're right. There's these guys that have the waiting list and they're like dude, what do I need to? You know, what, what, what, what, what do I need that brain damage, right. And then you have the two, like you're saying, the two bucks check is kind of like I can't even get them. Dude, water is more expensive, right, in some cases, right. And I mean, and you're like, okay, I get that, right, we're not shipping the liquid, right.
Speaker 2:But I think that there's a large sort of middle ground for, you know, for brands that aren't anointed, right, that still need to sort of like engage with customers, post, right. And I mean like I'll go to a winery and I, you know, I'll go, I'll go mystery shop. Every so often I'll walk in a winery and I'll be like I'll go to friends and I'll be like I'll tell them I go, hey, I'm in. Tell them I'm in local area networks, I'm a, I'm a computer guy, right. And I mean, don't tell them the wine business, and just kind of see what happens, right, and you kind of see how some are really good, right, they'll, they'll get back to you, they'll send you an email. Hey, we had a great time visiting you, quinton. Blah, blah, blah, Love to have you. You know, and you kind of watch that progression, but still they're not. A lot of them are doing SMS, right. There aren't sort of engaging there, sort of their customers that way, or even the experience that that you know, in the way that they get wine, right. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Something as crazy as, like, we don't ship during the summer. Well, okay, man, right, you know what I mean, but maybe there's a way to do it right. And then people talk about gel packs and blah, blah, blah. But there, you know, there's technology out there saying, okay, well, it's going to be. You know, maybe Phoenix would have been difficult for like 110 days, you know, 54 days of over 100 degree weather. But you know most places you probably could get there, but maybe. But but I think it's also the way that we are set up that the product needs to go from the east west coast all the way to the east coast, and there's a lot of ground in the middle. So you know, but I think there's different people doing different cool things, like you know, forward, forward, forward forward shipping to an area and then from there then it goes, you know, I mean then then you're doing the last, last mile and then that's not spending seven days on the truck but you're maybe only one day in the truck and hopefully that's a good day.
Speaker 1:So Right, yeah, I mean, having being here in Florida, I've started to run into some of those uh issues. When it comes to getting wine sent here it's it's not as easy as it is in like the Midwest, yeah.
Speaker 2:Exactly, you know. But maybe there's a way where you know someone partners in, I think you know, like, for example, fedex and UPS is those guys are wanting to use their locations as be places where people pick up. So you know, granted, it is a little bit more of a pain, right, it's not to your door, but if you're into wine and you've spent $40, $50, $100, all the bottle of wine, the last thing you want is it to just kind of sit on your doorstep, right, and, you know, start cooking.
Speaker 1:So that's how I see that. Yeah, I think there there's been a lot of progress towards um, you know, working around some of the limitations and you're you're seeing it with successes of. You know, like the, the business you were formerly at with Denegos. You, you have others, um, like, I think, bev, recently being acquired by um.
Speaker 1:I want to say it was Gallo or or or or um, but you have, I would say, more digitally native brands that are starting to enter into the wine space, yep, and that's providing uh both inspiration but also competition for your more traditional uh, you know, california or Napa wineries, where a lot of the uh business and also the consumer relationships are started and end in the asyn room, um yeah, yeah, yeah, Like you know, like there are other sort of like online, like you say, all the data, uh, uh, you know digitally native ones.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm just amazed by them. Sometimes it was like how many people are in your list and you know, granted, you know the price points are low, but hey, listen, we need to bring people in this industry, you know, in, you know into the wine biz, right, and some shape or form, right, and if those wines, you know, punch above their weight for what they pay for, then they're going to keep on drinking, right, and they'll keep on having more wine with us. So, you know, but they, but they're good at like getting people and kind of, you know, getting new customers and sort of bringing them in right.
Speaker 2:And it's not sort of pretentious and everything else. So I, so I definitely those are. Those are the things that I'm that, that, that, that, that that make me think and kind of go hmm, and then you look at the, the leadership team, you're like there's not even a wine guy here, but maybe that's how we solve this right. And I mean is that they take industry things from other industries right, Be it mattresses or whatever.
Speaker 2:I saw that you had, um, uh, the guy from Breitsellers on right and I just kind of look at his background and I've been like wow, he's super smart, right, and I mean, and so we need more people like that, right, um, that are pushing the envelope and kind of bringing that on board, so yeah.
Speaker 1:I think there's more outsiders that are entering into the industry um which is a good thing, because, yeah, and it's not just alcohol either, there's been some other. You know, like I had a. I had an internship in the, in the paper industry, in like high school, and everybody who was, everybody who was there, had been there for like 35 years and there was just no like you just sort of did things the way that you did them because that's how you always did them, and why would you change when you know there's not really any reason to change? Correct, yeah, getting some fresh, new blood into the, uh, the industry, uh, we'll have its. You know hurdles and road bumps, but I think it's going to be Better off for the long run, because you have people Like Joe entering being like, why the hell do you do some of these things?
Speaker 2:the way that you're doing them Like this makes no sense and that leads to change and, ultimately, a better experience for the, the customers.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:The, the, the, the, the, the, as I jokingly say. They'll drag us, they'll, they'll bring us knuckle draggers along.
Speaker 1:So so, um, you know, jumping off of that and and the knuckle draggers, what does make a successful wine business in your Opinion? Especially in in 2023, is it's a lot? Different than you know, a successful one, even five years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I think that the things that make wine business successful, I think there are probably two things.
Speaker 2:One is you know, you know, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if it's wine or widgets, it's still a business, right? So I think, as you know, as a winery, or as a brand owner, or as a, you know, founder of a winery, I think kind of knowing sort of what you're good at and what you're not good at is important, what your weaknesses are. Right, it's a. It's a really tough business, right, the wine industry, as I jokingly say, you know, you know, I've coined a term that I'm going to trademark. It's called napaganistan. Right, it looks easy from the outside, you know, and I'm like, hey, I made a lot of money or whatever in another industry. I want to buy vineyard or I want to start a wine brand, and you know it's a. It's a tough business. Because, you know, when you really think about it, it's almost five businesses in one you have one is that if you're growing grapes, you're doing viticulture. So, you know, you're spinning a plate here, right, and you have to make good grapes, and then all of a sudden you're in this other thing called manufacturing. Oh, wine making, that's what it's called and then your manufacturing wine. You're making wine, right, and you got to make good wine off of good grapes. Then, all of a sudden, after you make it, then you got to sell it. And you know, depending on what you're, you know route to market, as be it direct to consumer or wholesale, you know. So that's another two separate businesses, right, and you know, then it's just business in general, just kind of business acumen about running a entire business. So you know, all these plates need to spin at the right RPMs. If one is off, it actually impacts the other one, right? If you're not selling enough, but you're bringing in too many grapes, right, and then you're bringing it in, and then all of a sudden you're using up your cash and you're like, why do I feel so poor? Well, you have a couple million dollars in a bit, or do you feel better? You know, I'd like to have more money, right, and I mean so. So I think, so I think it's, you know, one of the things is definitely kind of knowing sort of what you're good at, and then sort of building a team around you, right? So I think that that's probably first and foremost. The second would be, you know, building a plan. I, you know.
Speaker 2:You know, the one of the things that I like doing that I learned from my experience at the Coca-Cola company was, you know, I hear all the time from from wineries or people in the winery oh, you can't predict things. I go, I get it right, you're not gonna beat Mother Nature, but you can predict how many grapes are you gonna be bringing in? Right, you sign the contract, right, or you own the vineyard? Right, you can. There's a range. Sure, it can be zero, maybe like a 2020 or something like that, but other than a black swan year, you're bringing in something, right? You know how much that you're selling, right?
Speaker 2:So if you know how to model it, then you can start looking at your business and then start Understanding number one, your cost.
Speaker 2:Right, because people are really bad about that in the wine business, because Understanding your cost is difficult because you have two vintages Normally in your seller and then you have to allocate cost to those things. So most people don't even know what their cost is until they get to the end, which is crazy in my view. Right, I know how much corks are. I know how much my labels are, so I think those are the two sort of main things is then, and then you have sort of a plan of sort of where you want to go, and then in the interim then you're just sort of updating, as it's kind of you know what XYZ skew is actually not selling so fast, oh man, what does that mean? Well, how many grips are we bringing in? Okay, let's, you know, you know, you know, let's dial it back a little bit. Or if we can't, boy, we better start kicking it up and understanding sort of what the impact of that is.
Speaker 1:So probably those two things, I think, are sort of bigger understanding of what makes a wine business sort of successful the inventory, you know position is sizable for a lot of these companies and it's not something that I necessarily thought about before, coming from, you know, a services background, never had to deal with inventory or anything like that, but diving into it over the past 12 months and understanding the financial constraints that these companies are trying to work around, even though they can literally be sitting on you know millions, if not tens of millions, of dollars of inventory you got to sell through that Yep, and so that presents its own host of unique challenges, especially depending on the on the brand.
Speaker 1:You know, not everything is meant to sit in a cellar for 20, 30 years totally right and Making sure that you you get through that product before it it goes bad yeah really important, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then you have bulk wine right. So you got the stuff that's in the bottle right. But then you got stuff that's in bulk right. And then you have these grapes that keep on growing. You just can't turn off the grapes, right, you know mean. So you know that you can. You can start, come you know, compounding your inventory depending on and I use inventories an overall piece right, both bulk and, and you know, and finish goods and it can. You know you can be a couple of integers behind and blink of an eye You're like wow, we got to start liquidating or moving, moving stuff out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I'm not envious of those problems at all, but how many? Back to the, the, the winery side, because we talk a lot about the more digitally native Brands, or you know more so online marketers like bright sellers or or a wink, or even yeah, I'm sorry yeah there's the actual wineries themselves, the producers, and I think they actually have a relatively unique Especially with the rising cost of customer acquisition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they have unique opportunity to be able to have that in taste or in person tasting room experience. Yeah, translate that to you know, a longer life with the customer yeah, but when I went to Napa and Was that back in like June, yeah, you know that experience that you get in person, yeah, go to the same wineries website and you're like what just happened? Like there's nothing. Everything that you told me in the tasting room, all the really cool things that you do the history, like all this awesome stuff you go to the website and you're like what the hell just happened? There is none of that on this site. So like, of course, nobody's gonna buy from you via that website if they're seeing it for the first time. Like, yeah, you're just a commodity at that point, it's just a, it's just a product. You're not Putting in any of the unique sort of storytelling components that you have in the tasting room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then the second thing that I thought was was a miss for a lot of them was the lack of, you know, automated follow-ups, automated communications, like all the stuff that can happen thereafter.
Speaker 1:Once I do have that first visit because you know they get you in the tasting room, you're, you're feeling pretty good.
Speaker 1:After you have three glasses of wine, I'm like, oh yeah, like I'd love to buy Whatever products you put in front of me You're so nice, whatever and you know that leads to one thing, leads to another and you're going home with like 300, 400 dollars of wine and some other like little gizmos and widgets and whatnot.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I mean I haven't bought from a single one of those wineries again because, yeah, I haven't really even heard from them and and I think you know that is a really big opportunity for them that the purely digital players don't have where you can curate that Relationship in person and then have that lead to, you know, an ongoing club or have that lead to some sort of recurring purchase behavior from From people, when you know going to Napa isn't a once and once a year, twice a year thing, for for those outside of the industry it's maybe a once every ten years or even a once in a lifetime in some instances. So, yeah, how do you keep that customer for five years, for ten years, when they're never gonna come back to your location?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, couldn't agree more, all those things. I think the, the, the, the. The issue is that there's a disconnect, right, the people in the hope, in the, in the tasting room, are great at at, at, um, you know, giving that experience, right, you know I mean. But then all of a sudden, when you leave, there's no one on the other side to kind of continuing that. And it's usually like a wine club manager at best, right, and I mean that they have. So you need to join the wine club. But there's a lot of people like so, and my best example Look, I have a couple examples is when I was at our tessa now this is many, many moons ago, right, and so.
Speaker 2:But one of the things that we did right is we took the wine club on the road, right, and I was like, hey, invite a friend. No one wants to go to a wine wine event by themselves, right, and we signed up a bunch of wine club members that way, right, and I mean I was like dude, it's just like Tupperware in a way. Right, bring a friend and bring a body. You know, and I see you know, you're, you know, you know the guys liken the. You know the experience that they're having and their taste in the wine and the kind of hearing it. So I think that's that's a big piece. I think that you know, and it's unfortunate, right, and I mean you know, for the wine industry is is how do they bring that experience there? And you know, like, for example, one of the things I was looking at a long time ago it's probably before its time was using VR. Right, I mean, you know. You know, if you have put on the headset, right, let's say, one day when Apple gets, gets that one out, maybe there'll be more. You know, you know, you know adoption, but in the interim, you know, why don't you take a drone and fly around your vineyard? Right, if you own a wine or a vineyard, shame on you if you're not Giving someone that experience of walking through the door and sort of looking around them.
Speaker 2:People can, you know, can kind of experience or remember that experience, right, they're not connecting back with the consumer. So you know this is back in, you know, the mid-2000s, right, and I was working with the gentleman. He had a business called Call for Wine, mark Parton. Right, the guy sold wine over the phone. Literally, I was blown away. I was like who would pick up the phone. This is ridiculous, and I listened to the calls, right, and people like, oh my god, bob, oh Bob, we had such a great time in Napa, that was the best thing. And they go through their spiel, right, and like, hey, you know what I mean and it's amazing, right.
Speaker 2:So you know, I think there's so many touch points that a lot of wineries don't don't do, primarily because there's no handoff. But now, with technology, it's here, right, and I mean where you can sort of like touch them, you know email, sms, whatever. And then you layer back in that human piece, because I think you know, really, ask me why I love the wine industry is because it's still really human-based. People are interacting with each other, right. So.
Speaker 2:But it's kind of, how do we bridge that piece over there to get over there, so where it's like when they do go back home, they're in, they're in Chicago, it's winter, and they're in their cubicle, or used to be in their cubicle or offices. They remember sitting in the Napa Valley and having a nice glass of wine, right, and I mean there's just nothing and you know nothing but good feelings. So how do you sort of bring those pieces back in. So I think but I think there's there's not been a lot of focus of either bringing that technology in or them wanting to get it Right. So I think that's where we need to sort of bridge that gap a little bit. But I think that the, the, the wineries that do do well right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and tapping into that social component which is unique to wine and beverage alcohol in a way that most other product categories don't have, correct.
Speaker 1:I don't. You have like communities that are created around some verticals, but not in the same way that you have Real, like human interaction with people over a bottle of wine or over a glass of scotch or whatever. Yeah, bourbon, bourbon or whatever crazy. And that's the unique thing to me about Alcohol is that that is so neatly tied together, like you could have a thousand dollar bottle of wine but you're with crappy company and you know it doesn't really matter. You could have a ten dollar bottle of wine, but you're with you know people who you care about or you're having a good time or whatever, and you're like you know, this is actually better than that thousand dollar bottle wine.
Speaker 1:Totally, yeah, exactly, exactly. I don't remember the nights that you you drink alone. Yes, you probably shouldn't have as many of those anyways, so Uh, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 2:So drink responsibly, everybody, because I would say exactly that can be the, the tagline for this episode.
Speaker 1:Well, no, that, that that's all. That's all really fascinating to me. I have, um, I have a couple of fun questions for you. Um, yeah, but before I get to those two fun questions, um, given how sort of close you were to Ecommerce and specifically Shopify over the last, you know, two and a half, three years, what like, how, what, what does that evolution been like? Because you know, you were sort of early adopters of that platform and solution when it comes to, yeah, alcohol, but obviously there's been a lot of investment into it over the last year, year and a half.
Speaker 1:Um, yep, like, why Shopify, why e-commerce? What are, what were you able to do that you weren't necessarily able to? Uh, with other solutions that are out there? Because I think this goes towards the, the talk track that I'm Really fascinated with, which is and it's not just alcohol either. There's some other industries like this as well, but those that are regulated or a little bit more antiquated will have A bunch of products that are created, you know, just for them. So you have, like, sms Just for alcohol.
Speaker 1:You have e-con platforms, just for alcohol you have, I don't know, uh, name your solution. It's basically what you know the big boys are doing, like Shopify or cladio or whatever it may be, but it's tailored and tweaked just a little bit to be very unique and specific to that particular category, which I'm obviously biased. But I think that is a losing game in the long run because you have a defined TAM and you can only Invest so much and you can only grow so much, like you never will be able to have 4500 or 5000 engineers like Shopify has, because you're only servicing one category. So, yeah, talk me through what that, what that looked like and and how that was a differentiator for you and being able to make To negotiate as successful as it has been.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, you know, I think there's probably two pieces of that right. One is, you know, the First and foremost, like you were saying. I mean, how do you get like A lot of the solutions that are, that are out there, are actually kind of quasi homegrown For lack of better word and have all their limitations, that you get all the bugs and all that other stuff that kind of comes along with it, right, and they're only as big as the two or three man development team that someone probably outsourced somewhere else, right? I think one of the things that Shopify brought to the table was just that, that, that power and the ease so I'll talk about the ease in a moment, but just kind of the power of just being able to look at a very complex sort of industry.
Speaker 2:Right, you have 50 states. That's literally like selling to 50 different countries. No different, right you must, was shipping it to Mexico is the same as, maybe not as bad as, texas, but still there's different rules and different laws, right, you know what I mean, and you have to abide by those. Then, then you have the issue about taxation, right, you know what I mean which is bring damage within it.
Speaker 2:The states really care about is the money, exactly Right, and I mean, and they will come after you, right, if you ship, not without a permit, if you don't ship, you know all these things right, and if you don't have those things buttoned up, they can come back to you. Right, and understanding things like Nexus and you know all these different pieces right that you got to do it. I'm just a winemaker man, you know what I mean. I'm just trying to sell a little bit of wine, right, you know what I mean. And so having these solutions trying to prethought out in a larger organization like a Shopify et cetera, as a platform kind of brings some of the best minds together into it. Right, to solve this problem. Right, it's not just one person or one company doing it, it's multiple companies doing it at the same time and I think that's why they've taken the lead on sort of like understanding and sort of providing the platform platform for everybody.
Speaker 2:The second part is the ease. Right, you have to remember that these are winemakers, right, and the guys at home right, you know what I mean. And maybe he's no different than the Etsy guy, etsy person, right, you know what I mean that wants to sell something. Right, I got a product, I got to get it online. How do I do that? Right, and I think that they make it easy enough for people to kind of get on there, right, and that's what's bringing in the critical mass, right. And then the people are able to you know, sell what they sell and you know and how they do it.
Speaker 2:So I probably would say it's those, you know, it's those two things, and then you later on sort of other software that you can just plug in like oh, this is the taxing thing, okay, good, I'd like that. You know what I mean. So put that guy on right. Oh, I'd like to do, you know. You know integrated marketing. You know emails with AB testing or whatever. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So they're bringing on all these pieces and all of a sudden you have a platform that makes you look and feel a lot bigger, but you have all the professional things behind it. So that's probably why I, you know, I would say that that's was why we were able to ramp up so quickly, so fast. Right Is because the platform was there, we weren't dealing with all the buggy things and we could focus in on the business instead of trying to spend all of our time. You know, oh my God, why did the software not work? You know, why can't this customer get this Right? And I mean, and there was always somebody there to kind of help out. So I think that that allows the makers, whoever whatever they make, do what they do. And then you, you know, you know, have the technology and, like I said, it doesn't matter if it's wine or widgets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you basically have three you know, separate, very distinct business functions. In a, in an alcohol brand, you have the producer, which they've pretty much got that all covered. But then you have marketing and then you have like legal regulatory tax, and you know those are the two you have with marketing, and then the legal regulatory and tax. That gets overlooked far too often, I think. But then that is the differentiation factor between those that are very successful and those that aren't. It's not enough to just be a grower or producer. Even if your wine is great, there's like a lot of great wine out there. There's a lot of great, you know, booze. There's a lot of great beer. You have to invest in all three of those different areas in order to be successful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you're a small company or medium sized company, where do you have the funds to do that Right? I mean, the margins are pretty tight as they are, you know what I mean. And on an EBITDA aspect, and not everyone's willing to invest all that money, so I guess it's a larger number of people coming together, so which is good.
Speaker 1:Well, my fun question for you what is your favorite wine memory?
Speaker 2:In 2007,. I had a little time off, in a good way, and I have a friend of mine who owns a winery in Sanseir and you know how everyone's like oh, come visit the winery, come visit me and everything else, and his name is Jean Laurent Vacheron and I had a little. I had about two months off and I was like it's the summer and I was single and I was like you know what? I'm just going to go to France. I just called them up and I said, hey, it's Quentin, he goes.
Speaker 1:Hey, quentin, how are you and I was like great I got a little time.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking about coming over to Sanseir Can I stay for a month I was really only thinking for a month and maybe travel around Europe a little bit. And I was spending about two months there and you know I just loved it. I mean I'm a huge fan of Sanseir's, you know then, and just even more now, just kind of like the geology and the history and just it was just fun, right. I mean I've really got a chance to kind of see the wine business from the ground up, from the vines and where they make the wine and everything else. So that's probably one of my most fun memories in professional and personal for a lifetime. And Jean Laurent and I have become really good friends too.
Speaker 1:So which is great. That's awesome, and his name is also totally awesome, like. I wish I had a name that sounded that cool. I know Jean Laurent Vacheron. Yeah, that's going to be hard to beat, hard to beat. And then last question yeah, if you had to pick one bottle, what would it be? And then who would you be sharing it with?
Speaker 2:Hmm, the bottle goes back to Vacheron. There's a, there's a, there's a label that they, there's a bottling that they have called La Romaine and it is a particular piece of ground in in their estate and I jokingly say that it's like, it's like chewing on rocks, but I know that's not a good marketing descriptor, but it's amazing, right, the limestone and just the chalk that's there right in the flint that you get. It's, it's amazing. So definitely would be that bottle of wine.
Speaker 2:And yeah, you know my, you know my dad passed away several years ago. I'd love to share, if I, if I could pick anyone in the world, probably be him, because he was really big in a wine and kind of helped me, you know, with my wine sort of journey. I mean, he wasn't, he had a little collection, he had really good stuff, right, he only bought the best, right, you know I mean not a lot of it, right, you know I mean but, but but he did have a few bottles that he really cherished and depends on whose birthday it was that. Which bottle came out? Cousin, maybe a little lower, mine a little better, you know so that's how we did it.
Speaker 1:That way, there's a, there's a pecking order, for sure, in terms of who got what, why Exactly right.
Speaker 2:So I think the same thing.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm literally anytime I'm going to dinner, I have people visiting and there's there's a pecking order, but also there's a level of does this person actually even really care or like what's? The appreciation level going to be there, yes they don't have to have a lot of experience. They could have more. No experience, but, yeah, a desire to learn or anything like that. I mean, that's how I got super into it.
Speaker 1:Was, you know, other people taking an interest in me, expanding my palette, and but I had the desire and I had the the, the, the want, I guess, to learn, yeah, whereas you know some people, it's, you know, white claw, you know happy dad, or maybe you guys are getting the free shit.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I'm breaking out the seller for you, Exactly exactly Because it just was none of just me being drinking by myself, so why, right, right?
Speaker 1:And in that case I'm just going to hang out with my dog on the couch. So yeah, exactly. Most definitely Well, thank you so much for joining us. If people want to get in contact or in touch with you, what would be the best way to do so? Online?
Speaker 2:Online is. My email is QJAY at Bacchus, and that's about B-A-C-C-H-U-S-C-G dot com.
Speaker 1:Okay, awesome. We'll make sure to include that in the show notes here, yeah, but thank you again for coming on and for everybody listening. As always, this is Brandon Amoroso. You can find me at drinkscom and we will see you on the next episode.