The DRINKS.com Podcast: The Business of Online Alcohol
Wine Access and the Art of Personalized E-commerce with Joe Fisch - 010
Dec 14, 2023
Brandon Amoroso
In this episode of the Drinks.com Podcast, Brandon Amoroso sits down with Joe Fisch, the CEO of Wine Access, a premier platform for expertly curated wines. Joe shares his journey from working in retail and consumer-focused roles, including Ghirardelli Chocolate Company and TWC, to his passion for e-commerce, retail, and wine, leading him to Wine Access.
Wine Access, a direct-to-consumer e-commerce platform renowned for sourcing the world's finest wines, offers not only exceptional wines but also rich narratives that reveal the stories behind each bottle. Joe emphasizes the essence of delivering a high-quality product, as wine transcends categories by connecting people through shared moments and cherished memories.
Brandon and Joe delve into various facets of the wine industry and customer preferences. They discuss Joe's surprises when transitioning into the wine industry, the importance of building relationships within the wine sector, and the gradual adoption of digital tools in the wine business.
Trust and relationships with vintners play a pivotal role when representing premium wine brands on platforms like Wine Access, as Joe underlines. He also sheds light on the slower pace of digital adoption within the wine industry compared to other sectors, emphasizing the need for modern e-commerce practices.
The discussion also touches on wine trends, including the popularity of grower Champagne, affordable white wines, and high-end Bordeaux. Joe explains Wine Access's approach to serving customers with varying wine expertise and introduces strategies for introducing customers to higher-priced wines.
They wrap up the conversation with insights into customer budgeting for wine, including the potential for customers to explore more expensive bottles and different wine regions and varieties.
Tune in to this episode for a deep dive into the world of wine, personalization in e-commerce, navigating regulatory challenges, and unforgettable wine experiences.
In this episode of the Drinks.com Podcast, Brandon Amoroso sits down with Joe Fisch, the CEO of Wine Access, a premier platform for expertly curated wines. Joe shares his journey from working in retail and consumer-focused roles, including Ghirardelli Chocolate Company and TWC, to his passion for e-commerce, retail, and wine, leading him to Wine Access.
Wine Access, a direct-to-consumer e-commerce platform renowned for sourcing the world's finest wines, offers not only exceptional wines but also rich narratives that reveal the stories behind each bottle. Joe emphasizes the essence of delivering a high-quality product, as wine transcends categories by connecting people through shared moments and cherished memories.
Brandon and Joe delve into various facets of the wine industry and customer preferences. They discuss Joe's surprises when transitioning into the wine industry, the importance of building relationships within the wine sector, and the gradual adoption of digital tools in the wine business.
Trust and relationships with vintners play a pivotal role when representing premium wine brands on platforms like Wine Access, as Joe underlines. He also sheds light on the slower pace of digital adoption within the wine industry compared to other sectors, emphasizing the need for modern e-commerce practices.
The discussion also touches on wine trends, including the popularity of grower Champagne, affordable white wines, and high-end Bordeaux. Joe explains Wine Access's approach to serving customers with varying wine expertise and introduces strategies for introducing customers to higher-priced wines.
They wrap up the conversation with insights into customer budgeting for wine, including the potential for customers to explore more expensive bottles and different wine regions and varieties.
Tune in to this episode for a deep dive into the world of wine, personalization in e-commerce, navigating regulatory challenges, and unforgettable wine experiences.
Hey everyone, thank you for listening to thedrinkscom podcast. I'm Brandon Amoroso, your host, and today I'm talking with Joe Fish, CEO at Wine Access, a source for expertly curated wine. Thank you for coming on the show, Joe.
Speaker 2:
No, Brandon, thanks for having me and happy to be here.
Speaker 1:
So before we dive into some of the topics we want to cover today, can you give everybody just a quick background and intro on yourself and how you got to this point?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, with all of you. So been at Wine Access now for about six years or so. So I originally came in as the VP of finance back in 2017, and then 18 ended up moving in a concurrent role as CEO. But prior to that I'd had a number of different roles, mostly in the retail and consumer space. So prior to that I was at the Ghirardelli Chocolate Company, which was awesome experience was there for about two and a half years and I've always said that if I can't eat or drink the product that we're selling, then I won't be able to understand it. So if I had to do cybersecurity SaaS business, I'd be in so much trouble. But before that I was at PWC for about seven years. I worked both in our deals practice so mostly doing buy side and sell side due diligence for private equity Again in the retail consumer space and then was in audit for about three years and that's actually where I really got my first love of wine. So my two biggest clients at the time were Kendall Jackson and Foster's wine estate.
Speaker 2:
So what is now Treasury In my head?
Speaker 2:
I still always call them Foster's, and this was back in around 2007, 2008, and fresh out of school, it was great because I got to go work on these two clients that are making absolutely amazing wines, spending my summers up in wine country, which was a lot different than the year before, when I was drinking Mickey's 40s in a college dorm.
Speaker 2:
I remember at Treasury getting to go into the employee store and was able to pick up a barrage or private reserve O3, for really great prices. And I popped open that first bottle when I got home with some of my roommates and were like holy cow, this is amazing. I was like this is also terrible because I think I'm going to develop a really expensive habit. So ever since that time I was like how do I get back in? I should say I would really like to be in wine. So that's always been one of these things in the back of my head of like okay, eventually I'm going to move into wine. So spend some time in audit and then move into our deals practice, so doing a lot of consulting. So you're flying all over the US and you're not paid well, but at least you're kind of eating and drinking pretty well.
Speaker 2:
So that again developed the love for food and wine, which was such like a big, at least from a food standpoint, was very big in my family. So continue on throughout my career. The Ghirardelli comes up and then, finally, the opportunity for Wine Access. Wine Access comes up and I'm like, oh, this is going to be perfect because, well, I thought that potentially working in a winery could be interesting. I wanted to be able to do something that was a little bit more broad-based, working across multiple brands and also being able to kind of use some of my background that I had in e-commerce and retail and consumer.
Speaker 2:
So when the job for Wine Access came up, I remember my predecessor was looking for someone who knew e-commerce. So that's got like a super wide funnel and it's like they also have to run the finance group. Same thing. The funnel doesn't get that much more narrow and they also have to have experience in wine and finance in wine. So there's probably like five of us. So my buddy ended up getting an interview. He's like you know what I'm going to pass, but you should talk to Joe. And then that's how I ended up at Wine Access and have been here since.
Speaker 1:
That's awesome. And for those listening, what exactly is Wine Access?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so we are a direct-to-consumer e-commerce platform, so 99% of what we do is direct-to-consumer finding what we think are the best wines in the world, pound for pound. So I have a great team master's on the team, foremost sake, expert advanced song who have dedicated their lives to going out and finding the best bottles in the world, in which we always put together with a 500 to a thousand word narrative when we put that wine in front of customers. So we really want customers to get the best wine but, just as importantly, know who are the people, what's the place behind it, why is this relevant to you? And that's what we really showcase to do always ensuring kind of perfect provenance of the way that we taste it in the Chateau is the same way it tastes when it gets to your doorstep, and then all backed by phenomenal customer service. So really kind of your platform, your access to the world of absolutely amazing wines.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, something that in wine or anything else. If you don't have the product quality at a minimum, then nothing else can happen. It doesn't matter what you do from a retention marketing standpoint if the customers hate the product the first time that they try it. And so sometimes I think brands and companies have to face the hard truth that maybe they need to rethink the product a little bit or tinker with it, because that might actually be where the issue lies.
Speaker 2:
No, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, there's probably nothing worse than like getting a bottle of wine, you pour it for a bunch of friends, you take a sip and then everyone's like immediately dumping it out. There's nothing sadder than that and then having to take that bottle and walk over to the sink and like pour it out or save it to cook a little bit later. But that can sometimes be an expensive, expensive volume. So I think you're exactly right. You got to nail the product down.
Speaker 1:
The moment where you are able to turn a non-wine drinker or I have a lot of friends who they only drink white wine and I'm more of a red person but when I can get either like a person from either of those two groups and then introduce them to one of my favorite bottles of red wine, and then they're like, oh, wow, this is amazing, like this is really good and like, yeah, that's because you've been drinking shit for the last 30 years and so this is what you should be having and that's a fun experience to get to educate. And it's not like I don't know a ton either, and I love to be on the other side of the equation where somebody's introducing me to something that I haven't tried before. But I like to try everything. I think it narrows your palate if you're like, oh, I only drink this specific variety.
Speaker 2:
So will you pour it? For that Will you get the dark black glasses where you can't see through, and you pour either pour red or pour a white in there, where they're just like OK, you just have to taste it objectively so they don't know what they're tasting. Or they would just say come on, trust me, guys, you're going to like this. How do you go about doing that?
Speaker 1:
I have not done that, but that is an interesting concept. I might actually have to try that. Typically, I am doing it over dinner and I just I actually think it's even funnier when they know it's red wine and people don't like to be wrong. And then they try it and you see, the gears are turning in their head and it's like oh, wow, like yeah, this is actually pretty great, and I'm sure maybe one or two people are just you know Saying that, but for the vast majority of them, you can see whether or not they liked it based off of, you know, does the bottle last or does the bottle get finished?
Speaker 1:
And that's the, that's the biggest telltale sign for me so when it comes to the alcohol business, though, like you know why wine versus, you know necessarily, you know liquor or beer like what yeah what? What brought you into wine versus some of the other alcohol categories?
Speaker 2:
So I think that there's really no other product on earth like I really truly believe there's no other product on earth that captures a time and a place better than wine. Like there you go across food, like sure, you have some stuff that might be like 21 day dry-aged steak, but you're not having like 20 year dry-aged steak, right, it's, it's you were capturing a place and a moment in a bottle and I just think that is so, like, so cool, oh, and there's just like no product like that. Sure, you have some like aged whiskeys, but, yeah, it's like, whether you're going like birth year, like your birthday or daughter's birthday year, or it takes you back to a time of you know, even when I think about like 2007, like when I, when I, when I graduated college, like there there are these things that can spark memories and conversations, and there's just no product out there that that that can do that. And is why, like I continue to love, to continue to love wine and why I think it's probably why it's the best product on the earth.
Speaker 1:
I Think wine more than any other. You know alcohol is all about. You know that the setting, the people that you're with the. You know the shared experience and that's why I enjoy, you know, having wine over dinner or having wine an event or having wine with certain people, yeah, like, if I don't like somebody, I'm not going to share a great bottle with them to begin with. But you know, the Experience makes it what it is and all the unique history and background as well.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, no, you're exactly right, because actually that you know you say that in prompts is so I do have there. There are certain wines that I won't even share with my best friends because I don't, because I know they they're not huge wine fans. But then I might meet someone who's like this amazing wine fan and I might have met them for like 10 or 20 minutes and I'm like, okay, come over here like you're drinking this and then, like one of my buddies will be like You've known me for 20 years and like you've never shared that with me. I was like this because you don't care, like so I think there's also this, like this connection of Souls that come together when you have that one, like when you have that person who really afraid great loves great food or great wine, that you have this instant connection with that you can become, you know that that end up trumping your best friend of 20 years because they're you're there, your wine friend and they're in this special, they're in this special category.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I've got. I got three buckets, I've got. You know, anybody can have this, doesn't matter. I mean, wine is basically free when you're in the industry and have access to anything that you could find at the Trader Joe's. Then you have, you know, the, the mid-tier, where I would say you know people like that, who you meet, who are really passionate about it. Yeah, we'd love to share it with you. It doesn't really matter if you've known them for five minutes or forever. And then there's the third tier, which is, you know, nobody's touching this. I'm not even touching it and you know, maybe one day we'll break into it, but for the most part we're just going to look at it and admire from afar and See what happens over the next 20 years. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. No, exactly. So, having men in and I haven't taken like a non-traditional path into the wine industry, what were some of the things that surprised you?
Speaker 2:
you know, coming from other industries, other verticals, yeah, I think there's the level of relationships and how important relationships are Like. I've always come through my career like relationships are everything. It's like how you know you build your networks, it's how you find your mentors, it's how you find your mentees. I think that was one of the things that you know there's a tremendous like in order for a brand to trust you, like a premium brand to be represented. You know, when we're putting it forth on wine access, that relationship with the Vittner is like so important, which is why we always want to tell great stories that really showcase those brands. And I knew that that was the case coming in, but it's, you know, being in the industry is even more so because you know a lot of these producers might only have, you know, 500, 1,000, 2,000 cases and like they get to kind of choose who they decide to work with. And that's why it's so important to invest in those relationships and why I think having the amazing wine team we do is so critically important to what we do because of honoring and honoring those relationships, whether it's with Vittners, you know, obviously with customers as well. So building that trust, so it's.
Speaker 2:
It probably sounds a little generic, but it like really like, even that being said, like it still really is such an important component of the wine industry. So I think that's one aspect of it. Then another and you know, obviously Drinks probably knows this really well is like the digital adoption has been very slow in the industry and wine access is built a business because of that. I still think that, like, I'm still surprised how much farther we have have to go, which you know, I imagine is good for anyone who's making a bet on wine and digital. But it's amazing to see some of these other. You know how far along these other industries are. So we'll get there eventually.
Speaker 1:
That's something that's always shocked me is why the wine industry in particular is forced to use tools that you know other verticals that I've worked within are able to leverage, and you see it a lot on the software and technology side, whether it's your commerce platform or your email marketing platform, and you know some of it is. You know some of it makes a little bit of sense because typically businesses will build stuff for the non-regulated industries first and then they'll allow the regulated industries in, but then you know it's not. I wouldn't say it makes sense in the in the fact that you know the wine industry might be 10 plus years behind when it comes to some of the experiences that I've seen online. I feel like some of them even predate my existence when it comes to the online ordering process that I'll go through. But there's still some other legacy industries like that that I'll run into every once in a while, whether it's because of regulation or for some other reason, and I think one of the easiest ways to tell is like, how quickly can I get from, you know, add the cart to this payment actually processing?
Speaker 1:
And the other day I was ordering a pickup order from Piravita, which is this local spot down here in Miami and it actually would have been easier for me to just like walk into the store and tap my card on the POS reader, because there was no accelerated checkout in any way whatsoever. I mean forced to create an account, couldn't create it as a part of the checkout process, had to go through a separate experience, then had to verify my email. I mean I think I sat in the car for eight minutes before I was finally done placing this order and that stuff is painful, especially in an industry where you know I think the cool factor is something that's really important for the brands that are succeeding online right now. They're on the social channels like a TikTok. They have that customer experience that you know the younger generation expects and I think is leading a little bit into why.
Speaker 1:
You know most people my age, they don't drink wine, they drink seltzer, they drink, you know, alternative products, whatever it may be, and you know in 30 years people in that cohort are going to be the ones that are supposed to be buying. You know wine, the higher end wine as well, so it'll be an interesting you know, next five years, I think, as I hear time and time again from wineries and like that's a big concern for them. But it's like, okay, so now what are you going to do to address it?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah. Well, good for you. One for not abandoning car. Like I'm shocked that it went that long. Most people would have been, like you know, forgetting.
Speaker 1:
I'm stubborn as hell, so I wasn't leaving before that was processed.
Speaker 2:
Whatever you're getting, you're just like I have to have that. Yeah, no, I mean, you know, when you're talking about kind of younger generations as well, I mean it's one of the things that you know. Five years ago I would have said we have time to look at NA, like in terms of non-alcoholic drinks, and it's something that we're actually starting. I've been spending a lot of time like starting to form a thesis around it. Okay, like how do I understand who are the right brands? We partner with the Michelin guide, so we get to. We're talking with a lot of chefs and a lot of restaurants and a lot of Psalms, and it's been a conversation that we've been having where, you know, they said five years ago no one did an NA, no one had an NA program, and it's like now you will see anywhere between 15 to 50% of covers in any given night are doing the NA pairing, which to me, is just I was like shocked. So it's like each year I'm like oh, it's only you know, we have to figure this out in five years. We have to figure this out in two years. Now it's like okay, this is something where we need to like really form a good thesis around.
Speaker 2:
So it's, I feel, like the last, even the last three months, I've been taking calls with tons of different producers, trying to wrap my head around the NA side, because you know the you look at the number of people abstaining from alcohol, you know, while it hasn't I can't remember the numbers are it's something like 31% of the US, but it's up from 29%, which is not like a huge number till you look at, like, how big the US is, which means that some people after really be pushing that number up. So when we're talking with these different brands, we're also seeing that people who are, who are participating in these non-alcoholic wines, 80% of them actually drink alcohol. They actually drink. It's just that they're looking for different, different substitutes, maybe on that like Tuesday. So so for me it's, it's it's making sure that we capture that part of the category but also, you know, go through the same rigorous standards that we would for any, for any particular wine.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, the, the NOAAOC is interesting. I, for me, personally, if I'm going to drink wine, I'm going to drink wine and I'd rather I don't know I'd have like a poppy or an ollie pop or something if I'm, if I'm not drinking wine. So it's something that is rising a lot and even like the, you know, the rise of, you know, cbd drinks or cannabis drinks is something that I've seen multiple people less in Florida, a lot more in California, where you know they show up to a party with like a four pack of one of those you know seltzers that has cannabis in it, versus showing up with, you know, a high noon or a happy dad or whatever, and and so you have some of the competition coming from from there as well. But, the aside from NOAAOC, like what are some of the other trends or things that you're seeing that you're you're interested in? We're?
Speaker 1:
looking to capitalize on.
Speaker 2:
Grower Champagne for us has just been like a huge, huge category. We've been doing a lot more direct import with, with different different producers. I think there's probably like three or four that we work with quite a bit and I mean it's amazing because you're getting these absolutely like stunning grapes that would otherwise be going into some of the like you know, bigger, bigger Champagne houses and you're able, you know, for 40, 50, 60 bucks you're getting these amazing, these amazing Champagne. So that's really that's really taken off for us over the last few years. When we can get, when we can get lowar whites, those have done really well.
Speaker 2:
There's obviously been a couple of a couple of rough vintages that have knocked down yields. So we've seen, we've seen that move up. You know quite a bit Trying to think what else. Like you know, greek white wines have helped. Cab obviously has been down. Napa Cab has been down because, like you know, when you lose a vintage or largely lose a vintage, you're just going to see a lot of supply, you know, come off the market. But high in Bordeaux, like the Grand Coup, class A is the first growth, second growth, etc. Those have just been like for us have just been on fire. It's like almost like we can't keep it in stock. As soon as we get it in, it's almost going right out the door. So definitely like a lot, of, a lot of French wines and then some of the Sicilian wines, while kind of a smaller category for us, probably on a percentage growth, has kind of has come up quite a bit. Quite a bit.
Speaker 1:
What's your average, like you know? Bottle price point, would you say. And is your customer somebody who is looking to get in the wine? Is it somebody who is like a wine aficionado?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's about 30 or price points, probably around 30, 32 dollars. I mean it's average, right. So you have some bottles that are in the 20 range and then you're buying, you know, chateau Latour, I mean you're $1,500. So on the number, but it's a much smaller number of people who are actually doing that.
Speaker 2:
Well, I'd say that most people would see themselves as like wine enthusiasts to wine aficionados. So I think most people in there where they know they kind of know enough to be dangerous and they probably know the category that they really like, so they may come in and be like I love Napa Cavs, I'm really well versed in this, but they may not be necessarily well versed in other parts of the world. So I think that's that's where we have like a pretty pretty savvy. We have a pretty savvy buyer, but within potentially like a single category or a couple of them. And then every now and then we get some people who are new to wine who will mostly come into a wine club, one of our wine clubs.
Speaker 2:
So wine club is about 15%, about 15, 15% of our business and that would be something like a discovery club where they're saying I'm new to wine, we love the content. That that y'all do. I learned so much from it and I just, you know, over every quarter I want six bottles and I want to kind of learn about it, but the majority, I think, are pretty decently well, well versed. If they saw, you know, if they saw a label of a bottle shot of silver oak even if you like pulled the name off of it, they'd probably be able to kind of identify what that is.
Speaker 1:
Got it. And how do you work with customers on, you know, graduating them to new price points or to higher price points? There's goes, yeah. Something I've seen anecdotally is people usually shot within a defined window and that's their, that's their like price. They have their lower bound and then they have their upper bound.
Speaker 1:
And it's like very psychological or like I know, for me I'm not touching anything at the, you know, at the grocery store that's under a certain price point, yeah, but I'm also. I'm also the one who sits at the restaurant or like gets the list beforehand to see how badly I'm getting screwed over by the market. But then there's other people who you know they only drink, they only drink cheap stuff and that's it. Or they only drink high end stuff, like there's friends of mine drive me crazy, or it's like they, if it's not expensive, it's not good, whether it's wine or other things. I'm like you're out of your mind, like there's plenty of stuff that's far better small production and it might be, you know, a quarter of the cost, but how do you work on graduating customers to like higher levels of wine?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I think the best way I can describe it is we meet customers where they're at first, so it's just like okay, where, where's the level where we think it's going to be the highest efficacy of getting them to the purchase? And then, all but more importantly, like, consume and like, and I think as you do that and you build trust, I think you will see customers tend to graduate either to different categories or maybe working their way up in a particular category, and but it may not be like hey, I've had three Napa cabs from you all in the $75 price point and I love them, and now tomorrow I'm going to go buy you know something for 300. So what we'll do is we may see them start to experiment a little bit more, because now the risk of them going from 75 to 100 is low, because it's lower, because they're like look, you've, you've knocked it out of the park on the three or four things that I've tried. Now I'm a little bit more willing to maybe move, move my way up and from a content perspective, they can potentially see some similarities in that higher price point bottle. But they're intrigued by something that it may do. It could be, you could be. Hey, I've always wanted. I've wanted to go. Yeah, I've heard great things about about Oakville or about this particular vineyard. Okay, maybe I will try it then.
Speaker 2:
So, whether it's consciously moving people I don't know if we're consciously trying to move people up the ladder per se, but I do think that you tend to see people do that and also as well as I think is people build up sellers and have more and more wine. Sometimes, in their mind at least I do is I have kind of a fixed budget of what I'm gonna spend on wine and, depending on how much I've depleted versus not, I'll still kind of spend to that level, but that may just mean I'm buying more expensive bottles. At least that's how I'm like. Well, I gotta use my budget this year for it. So I think, yeah, I don't know if we consciously move people up more, so just try to provide them with wines that we think that they'll love, which may be more expensive, but they also could move into different categories or different types of cabs. That could be less expensive.
Speaker 1:
So it's more about what is the customer going to like than necessarily hey, this is gonna be a more expensive product or this is going to be a lower price product.
Speaker 2:
Exactly because I think, at the end of the day, if we send them a bottle that they feel that I don't wanna say overpaid for, but they got something where they felt like they had to go and buy, that, that's not a great experience. A great experience is almost like well great, you like Napa Cab? We actually think, based off of your taste profiles, you might even like something from Australia better, which actually could be less expensive, but it might be more like within their alley and to me that's a much more. I'm gonna get so many more people who are gonna be smiling about that and I think that's actually a really cool part of wine. Going back to capturing place and time. Better than anything else, I think it helps people connect to a different part of the world or something else they never tried before.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense when it comes to what you're able to do online versus in person. What are some of the things that you like to take advantage of in the e-commerce experience that you're just not able to do? If you're selling the product through retail or if you're selling the product in a tasting room. What are some of the e-commerce tactics that you can leverage?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean, I think there's this notion of personalization, like true personalization, that you can get it in an e-commerce experience.
Speaker 2:
You can get some, which sounds crazy because it's like if you go in person, you can kind of say what you like.
Speaker 2:
But then there's something about where, if you have a purchase history with a particular consumer over a 10-year period and you actually know we've profiled every single wine and it has based off of the things that you've rated and the things that you said, we actually empirically know that you like bold reds, but you do like a little bit of acid, you do like a little bit of, you may like high tan in, and that might be hard to replicate in person unless you have direct access to someone's buying profile.
Speaker 2:
It's kind of the notion of if you have enough information or enough data, you have a better idea of potentially what that person likes, even more than they do. So I think that's something that online, as long as you have that data backbone behind you, that's something that you can showcase and I think with every single wine that we write up and then we profile, you may not be able to get that in a tasting room per se. You will have some extremely knowledgeable people being able to talk through probably five or 10 wines really, really, really intelligently, I think, online. It's just simply. We have just so much data around every wine in history that you're just able to demonstrate that in a pretty compelling way.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. What are your thoughts, though, around how to navigate around the complexity of the regulatory environment in the US when it comes to direct shipping of alcohol? Because that was totally new for me when I entered into this industry. It was like what do you mean? I can't just start shipping stuff everywhere. And then there's also the rules and regulations when it comes to the advertising of alcohol online, but how have you managed that component like dealing with the regulatory framework that's in place?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean I think you know the the valley for the most part uses kind of the same I feel like it's the same number of beverage attorneys, which they do really well, and have built down all the different frameworks that that pretty much exist. My guess is, drinks uses the same person as wine, access as last bottle, and I think they've done a great job over you know God, what's probably the last 25 years of how to set up the right frameworks as well as build the right kind of technologies, the ship compliance of the world, and you have all these different, different tech solutions that that basically help ensuring that that everyone is is playing on, playing on the right you know the an even playing field and and following those.
Speaker 1:
Some of the rules to me are still just mind boggling. Them that are like county specific or even, like you know, certain dry zip codes. It's. It's crazy how tangled this entire industry has gotten when it comes to regulations around. Who can like just consumer choice? The state controlled liquor? Well, you know, like in Pennsylvania, for example, where every retailer is owned by the state, or going even outside of the US and Canada, or like everything is owned by the country.
Speaker 2:
And.
Speaker 1:
I know, like when we're at Pro wine, you know the Canadian buyer sort of walks around as if he's this, this king. But quite literally he is like he's the guy. If you want your product to sell in Canada, you better make sure that he not only likes you, but that he likes your product.
Speaker 2:
It's just wild. Yeah, it really is. But you know a lot of those laws were written in the. You know prohibition time in the 20s might be time to dust that off, and what do you mean?
Speaker 1:
they're not. They're not still applicable, you know 100 years later. It's. I was having a conversation with somebody the other day about how everything just happened so much faster now and like generations are usually defined, I think, in like 15 to 20 year windows and I'm older Gen Z and then you have younger Gen Z and I am not even anywhere near what you know.
Speaker 1:
a 14 year old is like right when it comes to quite when it comes to quite literally anything, whether it's, you know, technological savvy. You know the words that I use. When I talk, I feel like they do. I don't even speak English. It's hard to keep up with them, and but the same can be said for just e commerce over the past couple of years as well. Yeah, I think that's sort of given the alcohol industry a little bit of kick in the in the right direction.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, no, it's interesting because I was I'm a millennial, so I but I still had, like I didn't have a cell phone, I think, until I went to college, so it's like largely grew up like digital, like still still knew how to use a pay phone and then like landlines, so yeah, it's been, it's. It's interesting to think that you know you have you know 21, 22, 23 years year olds that like I have no clue of that, like of that timeframe, like it's all. They've all grown up purely, purely digital. Yeah, yeah, it's something that we think about and I would say that most, most of the times, our consumers aren't really in that. It's in that age group it's probably a little bit more, until they get into their, you know, above 25, 26 and our average age is probably closer to about 50, because that's kind of like what the wine buyer is.
Speaker 2:
But it is interesting to think about like, okay, when we're marketing towards that group, like what are you know, what are the values that they, that they have, that we have to, that we really have to, kind of that we have to hone in on. So it's very different than you know, probably like my parents generation who was, like you, locked in on a brand like no matter what. You just kept going to that brand over and over and I think you saw a lot of brand loyalty within boomers and my my perception at least. This hasn't been quantified, but it feels like the level of brand loyalty in a consumer product may not necessarily be there for some of the, some of the younger generations.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think you know I hop over from brand to brand all the time. I got like maybe a couple that I'm keyed in on, but for the most part it's a little bit all over the place, and I think it's just forcing companies to be more innovative and to not be stuck in their ways, which might be a good thing. But I got one last question for you here which ties back into a little bit of our earlier discussions in the podcast what's your, what's your favorite wine memory?
Speaker 2:
wine favorite wine memory there's probably there's always, like there's so many good ones and then there's probably so many that, like I have since since forgot as well Drinking tonight. If I had to pick a favorite wine memory, it might have been the first time that there's actually pretty recent, so I'll pick this one. I shouldn't say pretty recent. A few years ago drink a bottle of solos. So it was our head of wine at the time knew that I'm a huge, like huge champagne fan and had just got done with the trip over over in and she had to like wrestle a bottle of solos, like sample bottle from from them to bring to me because she had always wanted me to try, try this. It was a solos in a Seattle. It's like very different than you know than than a lot of the other other champagne's out there.
Speaker 2:
I just like this is for you, like you are, you drink this when you don't drink with me, you just drink it when you know a special time and I remember it was had a bunch of friends over for dinner and like I'd never, never even heard of it before and we're showing everyone's. Like you know, our head of wine brought this back. She said I'm gonna love it. She said it's so hard to find. Like you know, like you rarely get to drink this and like I ended up pouring it out, pouring it for everyone. And we're like sitting there drinking like a little bit and everyone's like, oh, it's good, I guess, but like you're looking at everyone's faces and everyone's like it's that thing when someone tells you it's supposed to be good and then you're not sure if you like it or not, so no one really says anything, and we're just kind of sitting there drinking and everyone's glasses are kind of going, going down and we keep pouring out and like within, probably within like 30 minutes, like we end up pouring out.
Speaker 2:
We pour everyone the bottles gone and we like later look and like what do you think of that? They're like oh my God, that was like the best wine I've ever had in my life. But it was like right off the bat we were like actually confused as to whether we like it a lot and I think that was like that showcases, like it was such a cool moment to see, like how not only how that wine evolved, but that I don't know. You can still like, you can still be surprised, and ever since then it's just like we talk about how my budget stays. You know the same, but fewer bottles is probably also too, because anytime I can get my hands on a bottle of Salos, like I'm grabbing it and I thought that was like such a, such a Interest. It was like within 30 minutes, right, oh my god, how do we go by like three or four more of those?
Speaker 2:
So I call my head, I says yeah, good luck, like Joe that you like, our allocation we get is like six a year and since then I always at least take three for myself. It's the only the only time where, the only time where I take a big portion of our, of our allocation to something. So that was that was. That was a pretty fun one.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I found this wine and maybe I shouldn't mention on this podcast because I don't want other people to take all mine. It's called quill Qi ll, not quilt, which is like the one that you'll see everywhere, but it's. They've got one at Diamond Mountain and one of one of the other ones that I'm forgetting, but super small production, and I found it at At a restaurant in San Diego and Like a born and raised, like the steakhouse there and it was amazing and I think it was like it was something some ridiculously low production. And I found it online. I was able to like get like 24 bottles and I just had my like second to last one. But that's the wine that I've been using Without fail to convert the non-wine drinkers or the white wine drinkers, because they're all like 2010, 2011, 2012 and they are in their perfect, like sweet spot for drinking, where they still are very, you know, fruit forward, but they've settled out a little bit and, you know, in five years They'll probably, you know, not be, though they probably won't be good, and but it's like right, right in that perfect drinking time, and so now I'm not now I'm on the hunt for more, but they, literally they don't even reply to me.
Speaker 1:
I've reached out like a thousand times on their website. You can't order online. Like what the hell is going on here? I'm gonna fly there. Actually, I'll be in Sonoma in like a month. Maybe I'll go track them down and be like listen, I need it more of your wine.
Speaker 2:
It's like knocking. You're like, let me.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, seriously, I'll build you a Shopify website for free and help you figure out your direct to consumer presence, if you just give me a case a year.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I'll do it for super cheap.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you so much for for joining me today, but before we hop off, can you let everybody know where they can find you and wine access online?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, absolutely so, so easy at wwwwineaccesscom. So super, super simple.
Speaker 1:
We love that. Drinkscom makes it pretty simple too.
Speaker 2:
You're even, that's even easier.
Speaker 1:
Yes, I have to repeat it though, because people are like what's your email? And I'm like Brandon at drinkscom and they're like what my god? Drinkscom like the drink like? Oh okay, yeah, that is easy.
Speaker 2:
It's all. It's too easy that it just doesn't like it. It's like they can't be the case. Someone else must have that domain.
Speaker 1:
Exactly, exactly. Well, thank you everybody for listening. As always, this is Brandon Moroso and you can find me at drinkscom. We will see you next time. Thanks for coming out. Thanks, brandon.