The DRINKS Podcast: The Business of Online Alcohol
Your definitive source for digital transformation in the alcohol industry.
Hosted by Rami Jubran, Chief of Staff at DRINKS, this series explores how technology is reshaping alcohol commerce.
The alcohol business is at an inflection point. The way people discover brands, how they research what to buy, where they actually make purchases, it's all shifting. And honestly, a lot of traditional approaches just aren't working the way they used to.
Every week, we’ll talk with founders, operators, and executives who are figuring this out in real time. Some are finding real success with new strategies, others are learning expensive lessons, but they're all navigating the same fundamental challenge: how do you build a sustainable alcohol business in a digital world?
Whether you're running a winery exploring eCommerce, looking to add alcohol as a new category at a retailer, or building technology for regulated industries, these conversations give you the context you need to understand where this industry is heading.
The DRINKS Podcast: The Business of Online Alcohol
Heritage and Craft: Jota Tanaka’s Story of Blending at Fuji Whisky - 013
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In this episode of the Drinks.com podcast, host Brandon Amoroso speaks with Jota Tanaka, the master blender of Fuji Whisky. They delve into Tanaka's remarkable journey from brewing and winemaking in California and Kentucky to his role at Fuji Gotemba Distillery. Jota shares his insights into whiskey blending, market trends, and the impact of global demand on Japanese whiskey. He also discusses the delicate balance between tradition and innovation while introducing the special 50th-anniversary single malt blend. Listen in to uncover the artistry, legacy, and global vision that define Fuji Whisky's approach to crafting spirits.
Jota Tanaka:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jota-tanaka-a19a37146/
Brandon Amoroso:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonamoroso/
Web - https://brandonamoroso.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bamoroso11/
X - https://twitter.com/AmorosoBrandon
Master Blender Discusses Japanese Whiskey Industry
Speaker 1Hey everyone , thanks for listening to the Drinkscom podcast , the business of online alcohol . I'm your host , brandon Amoroso , and today I'm joined by Jota Tanaka , and I'm really excited to have on the show today who is from Fuji Whiskey . Thank you for coming on the show today . Before we jump into things here , can you give everybody just a quick background on yourself ?
Speaker 2Yes , my name is Jota Tanaka . I am a master blender for Fuji Gotenba distillery . I am a second master blender in our 50-year whiskey making history . That's very simple , but that's who I am . But later on probably , I will touch on my experience . But I started in the brewing business first . Then I worked in Napa Valley , California . Then later on I had opportunity to work in Kentucky at the Four Roses Bourbon Dish Terrier . That's what made me who I am right now .
Speaker 1How did you ultimately you know get into the alcohol industry ? Was it in your family , or how did that happen ?
Speaker 2Just after I graduated from university in Japan I joined the Kirin Brewery , which is a brewing company . I joined a company just to want to work in the future abroad , especially the US , because of some experience in my college days . But that's the only thing . But one year after I joined the company , my boss , I was sent to the Napa Valley . My boss told me you go to Napa , no choice . I didn't know anything about you know Carmen , somi or Charlemagne , such a tongue-biting I drank .
Speaker 2Back then I just enjoyed red and white kind of sweet , so-called , but I loved it . Then my dream became . You know , my dream was back then becoming a winemaker , making my own wine and sell myself . But ended up just going back to Japan . And then later I became the blender at the Fuji Gotenba distillery , the place where I work right now . But then I worked in several divisions marketing department of wine division . Then later on I had an opportunity to work for Roses , which was 2002 . Ended up working in Kentucky seven years , 2002 to 2009 . That really I loved bubble making . I really enjoyed working there with people at the Four Roses . People are so passionate about it and people are proud of the product . Then I had to go back , I had a next mission , which is current , became a chief blender . Then , 2017 , I became master blender , second master blender in history . Then where ?
Speaker 1I am and , for those that are listening , where is your location and where is your property located ?
Speaker 2Our Fuji Gotenba distillery is located at the foot of Mount Fuji and Mount Fuji is a symbol of Japan . But we are from distillery to the peak of Mount Fuji less than seven and a half miles Literally . We are at the peak of Mount Fuji , less than seven and a half miles Literally . We are at the foot of Mount Fuji . What town is that .
Speaker 2Town or city name is Fuji Gotenba . Okay , I'm sorry . Gotenba City or City of Gotenba , that's the name of whole area . City of Gotenba , that's the name of whole area . We are in a city , but literally really remote Our area , nothing but open field and rush forest . It's not city like that , yeah .
Speaker 1I've seen Mount Fuji from the train when going from Kyoto to Tokyo or Osaka to Tokyo .
Speaker 2But you got lucky . Sometimes Mount Fuji is covered with a cloud or mist . So many people were disappointed . So they cannot see at all even sign of it .
Speaker 1So we got pretty lucky For one of the days . It was clearly clear and you can see it actually from downtown Tokyo , which was crazy . So you've been in the alcohol industry for quite some time , over 30 plus years so what is ?
Speaker 2Yeah , you know that to my age , almost 36 years , yeah .
Speaker 1What are some of the biggest differences from when you entered the entered the alcohol industry to you know today , in 2024 ?
Speaker 2uh , you know , speaking of uh spirits industry where I'm working in , that's totally different . Uh , for example , speaking of uh japanese in japan , of Japanese in Japan , mid 1980 was the peak of consumption of whiskey . So last up until like almost 20 years ago , or even 15 years ago , up until 2010 , market was shrinking , consumption shrinking . That's the same as the other country too , bourbon industry when I was in Kentucky , volume-wise going down , keep going down , down , keep going down . But like around 2010 or so , globally , us bubble market or Japan whiskey market 2010 , around those area last like 10 , 15 years start to come up . So landscape or market condition was totally different . Right now , that's what I hope I answer your question .
Speaker 1Or yeah , it seems like at least I'm not super uh familiar with japanese whiskey , more on the wine side of things in the united states , but um , the price of Japanese whiskey and also the popularity of it has seemed to increase very significantly over the past three to five years .
Speaker 2That is very unfortunate and also maybe later on I will touch on that . But now the price of Japanese whiskey is too . In my opinion it's too high . But you know that is the reason is , you know , of course , supply and demand , but also some wrong door or fake whiskey . Door or fake whiskey . Some company try to take advantage of being considered Japanese whiskey so they put in the high mark pricing . So that's the people , the image . Of course some authentic , famous whiskey is really high , but that's that's the value they establish . There's nothing wrong , yeah , but some ambiguous or fake japanese looking new product , that's it , I think . Uh , people don't know about it , but that gives to the wrong image , to the people . Got it that ?
Speaker 1makes sense . Can you explain for everybody that's listening ? You know how the process of you know whiskey making actually takes place . Like you as the master blender . What does that look like in a in a given year , taking the you know for the product all the way from inception to finished in the bottle and being sold to consumers in stores ? Because typically I'm used to on the wine side of things with the grapes and the fermentation process and whatnot . So how much of that is similar or comparable to whiskey ? And then what do the differences look like for you and your process ?
Speaker 2Okay , first of all , big differences is whiskey Spend years and years in the barrel versus the wine Wine for Charlotte , white wine is several months up to maybe one year , two years , red wine maybe two years or three years . In maximum . Whiskey needs to age at least three years , but aged 10 , 15 , 20 , so very long . And also other differences after the fermentation . You know wine was after fermentation put in a barrel , store it in a barrel , but our spirits , distilled spirits . After the fermentation is over we put in the still , so-called to increase alcohol strength but also distillation , concentrate in flavor strength but also distillation , concentrating flavor and stripping out unwanted products . So Kama was , after the fermentation is over , lots of solids and color like a murky water . But after come out from the still , what is very translucent , clear liquid which is in alcohol .
Speaker 2Sometimes malt whisky has , is 70% , 140 proof . 140 proof Grain whiskey Is Come out still Normally . Well , depends Barber style whiskey , that's same as Scotch . I mean Malt , 70% or 140 proof , but the other grain whiskey is More than 60 . Which is 120 . More than 120 proof . Translucent . That's what we put in the barrel to age so that they become amber in color and a lot of rich flavor develop during the aging . In a sense distillation takes place after the fermentation , prior to barrel aging . But long process much longer , and also we call stock business . We need to store lots of whiskey in the warehouse looking for the market in 20 years or even 30 years . So that is a very long process .
Speaker 1So a lot of the whiskey that you're working with , you know it was put into barrel even before you became the master blender , because of how long the time period is exactly .
Speaker 2So the what the blender's role is . It's like , uh , um , you know , we're uh , blending the whiskey which made by predecessors or other people which made by predecessors or other people . That's what we blend . But what we do is not simply blend the whiskey but looking ahead , like 20 , 30 years ahead , how much of a whiskey we need and what type of whiskey we need to produce , calculating , I hope you know , the angel shares . During the aging , whiskey evaporates , taken by angels , so called . That's why the whiskey is become tastier , but losing the volume on the alcohol . So by calculating those angel shares , we need taste here , but losing the volume and the alcohol . So by calculating those industries , we need to produce exact amount we need in 20 , 30 years . So that , production planning and also forecasting what kind of whiskey we need to make , those are the stuff Production planning , product development or research and development , those are lots involved . That's what being a blender , leading our teams .
Speaker 1I guess one question I would have is how large is your production capacity In a given year ? How much whiskey are you making ?
Speaker 2One is in terms of production capacity . We are kind of medium , small size compared to other whiskey distillery in the world , other global whiskey distillery in the world which is about 2 million pure alcohol liter a year . That's our production , more whiskey and grain whiskey , but just , for example , Fuji whiskey we're exporting to other market this moment . Currently we're , you know , uh like , uh , just a rough 80 000 cases a year , but then gradually that's what we focus . I mean in the future hope that grow and also we we're making some other product too .
Speaker 1So I don't know what other types of products are you making ?
Speaker 2well for the just domestic market . People enjoy the whiskey as a highball . So more affordable , approachable and more versatile whiskey I mean for daily consumption .
Speaker 1Got it . That makes sense . Are there particular markets that are larger for you than than others , aside from like domestic in in japan ?
Speaker 2we just started to export . Uh , last seven years , around three years , we just started so differently . Us is one of key market but this moment gradually first went to . We exported to France . First we exported to France , first the UK , the US , then Australia and some Singapore , and now , just this trip I was in Eastern Europe . So those are the countries like kind of Balkans .
Speaker 1Those areas . We gradually started open market Got it Definitely expanding a bit . To go back to your comments about how long the aging process takes place , for where are you getting your barrels from , because I know wine is typically like American or French oak . What type of wood are you using ?
Speaker 2for your products . Majority of barrel we use are American white oak . It's like a Scotch too . People love American white oak in terms of flavor and also durability and just consistency and quantity-wise . American white oak is , I believe , the best for whiskey making .
Speaker 1That's what we use . When it comes to the aging process . Why , for example , is an 18-year versus a 12-year so much more limited and expensive ? And same for like 25 or 30 ? Like is it primarily around the time that it spends in the barrel , or are there other components and factors that go into some of the more limited and exclusive Japanese whiskeys that a consumer might see once you start to get to that higher period of time in barrel ?
Speaker 2Unlike people need to understand that when it comes to vintage wine , people call vintage that was the grape , that vintage was the year the grape was harvested . Yep 12 years , 18 years , 21 years on the whiskey . That is minimum age . If you drop five years whiskey into 20 or 18 , 12 , you have to put five minimum youngest whiskey , the age of youngest whiskey will need to be put on the label . So 12 years means minimum 12 years .
Speaker 2But high quality , famous whiskey , that's a minimum , blending with lots of other older or variety of limited whiskey so that that product have more , lots of flavor . So that's one thing . The most important thing is , like I mentioned , flavor . So that's one thing . The most important thing is , like I mentioned , angel share . Once you put it into the barrel whiskey evaporates . So losing sometimes depends upon condition 2 to 5% a year lose , think about 5 . And also we call barrel . Consume , you know , taken liquid once put in the first time . Consume , you know , taken liquid once put in the first time . That's they say 5% , including those if you age , say 20 years in a barrel . After the 20 years of age whiskey left was , I would say , like 65% from the original or 70% , that depends upon the condition , but that's the whiskey . So losing alcohol and also for a long year 12 years , 20 years stored in the warehouse . That is a matter of economics Storage fee and you know value , stay in . You know it's like a bank . Yeah , nothing , no interest minus that makes sense .
Speaker 1Um how does , like this technology play a role at all into the blending process ?
Speaker 2okay , maybe I just assume you are from like e-commerce technology and you are much younger than I am . One thing I tell you really modern technology help to improve productivity , efficiency Also , that depends upon where you use it , but sometimes really increase the safety . And whiskey production is very dangerous rolling a big barrel or the in a lot of a heat . People have a lot of endeavor and time to make sure you know produce
The Art of Whiskey Blending
Speaker 2correct . But the thing is , when it comes to analysis , blending or those production area , the product we're making is for people's consumption . People's consumption , how we can meet your palate or our consuming that's a matter of human senses or just it's not analysis . So although we may analyze the whiskey , but final decision is our nose palette and more how we can inspire people . So that's not how do you say industrial product , that's more of human , how we can appeal to human . That sense human never be , never be replaced by those technologies . I mean in the production .
Speaker 1That's what I believe okay , now that makes sense . So a lot of technology plays into some of the outside factors that go into production , like the safety and productivity and things like that . But at the end of the day the actual taste of the product comes down to . You know the nose , the palate and you know what consumers actually want to drink and enjoy , which is much more difficult to optimize with technology or something like that .
Speaker 2Yeah , one example is analysis of whiskey . You can detect a very tiny amount of some chemical , but analysis cannot tell anything . For example we found by human senses blender . We see some flaw or some negative character which really people don't like . But sometimes machine or analytical equipment cannot tell one from another . One is good , one is really bad .
Speaker 1Sometimes that happens , so number doesn't mean anything sometimes there's a lot more nuance that goes into it than just being able to plug it into a computer , to a computer . When it comes to the market as a whole over the next 20 , 30 years as that's what you're looking ahead at when you're doing production and doing your blending where do you see the market going and how does that is a very good question .
Speaker 2But also it's very hard to focus , as you know . As you might know , the market just speaking of whiskey market we never , like 20 years ago , I never expected whiskey grow that much as it is right now . This moment , globally , whiskey boom all over market . Growing distilleries pop up like a mushroom all over the globe . For example , kentucky , when I understand , more than 100 . So that's in 20 years , I don't know . Hopefully it keeps growing .
Speaker 2But the good thing is now a lot of people , newcomers , people try to do to make a good quality of stuff in a way , new people , more interested in new consumers coming in . So it's uh , I , I , I believe now we're in the you a good condition and people enjoy what we make . Hopefully that keeps going . You need to prepare whatever happens . And also , you know we have a we are kind of stock business . We're going to keep making the whiskey , but it's very difficult to focus . But at the same time , if we keep doing the same thing , people lose interest . So that's why we keep experimenting and try to make much more appealing whiskeys . Got it and whiskeys Got it .
Speaker 1Well , I've got two fun questions for you to end things here , versus all the nitty-gritty specifics around blending yeah , but if you had to choose one drink , what's your favorite drink ? Is it a whiskey , or do you prefer maybe wine or something ?
Speaker 2Or what's your favorite drink oh , it's a tough question but differently , wine or whiskey . But I'll tell you . I just want to introduce this market shortly . Okay , this is kind of a lot of history involved . This is a blend of inaugural year , which we started operation 1973 . So blend of some of the whiskey distilled in 1973 . So aged in the barrel almost 50 years Weird , that's crazy .
Speaker 2From every decade , from 1970s , 80s , 90s , 1990s , 2000 , 2010s , from each lot whiskey we meticulously select , made this happen , limited edition . Look , this is a kind of a lot of stuff involved . So I would say this moment , I'm really proud of this product and this is this is kind of we call the concept of this is , with every sip of this whiskey , experiencing history and evolution of Fuji Gotenba distillery . That is , other products cannot make that history . I mean to celebrate 50-year anniversary . We launched this as a limited edition . A limited edition but inside the liquid , some of the cloth , almost 50 years and 40 years , 30 years , 20 years , a lot of liquid involved , not simply blending those , but we meticulously select , a lot of people involved our predecessor and , you know , current workers , me and other fellow blenders , distillers . This is full of , or concentration of , people's spirits and hope and I don't know how to say it . So this is , I would say , if I would choose the last whiskey sip before I die those are the stuff .
Speaker 1Well , that's very unique . That's really cool . And also you have the ability to do that versus some of the maybe new whiskey distillers who don't have that history and longevity in business . And then last question um and longevity in in business . And then last question if you had to choose one person in the world to share a drink of that with , who would it be ?
Speaker 2Yeah , that's a and a good question . I can tell uh , first master blender of Fujiko timber , which is who is Mr Uh Ichiro oh youino . He passed away about 30 years ago , 25 years ago but with him to talk about what we've been doing , and I want that person I mean I want to hear what he thinks . Am I doing good or wrong ? But hopefully he really appreciate . But also , what I want to talk with him is a future when we blend this . Without Mr Ogino's endeavors and passion , but also other predecessors in the work , we cannot make this happen . But what we thinking about is next , 50 years , what we need to do for next generation or next master blender , or next .
Speaker 1So that's you're , you're also setting the stage for , you know , the next 50 years to come , and there will be somebody else 50 years from now who's working with you . Know the product that you were working with right now ?
Speaker 2exactly so that's what I need . I want you to discuss with mr Ogino what do you think about . But I know that can happen . But that's the person . Anyway . I wanted to talk and share and enjoy the whiskey .
Speaker 1I think that's one of the things that makes whiskey and wine in particular , especially compared to beer a little bit more sort of nuanced or romanticized is the fact that you have this very long history . You know whether it's wine some vintages are decades old or you know whiskey with , you know 25 , 30 plus years of age and you know the bottle you were just showing . There's so much history that went into it , probably hundreds , if not thousands of people who had some sort of impact in what ended up going into that bottle , and I think that that's very unique that most products don't have . Um , that's one of the things that's really , really , you know , awesome about just the alcohol industry as a whole . Is that history and story ?
Speaker 2Yeah , that's what kept me interested . I really enjoy what I do . I'm happy to be the blender and I'm happy to be in the position where , looking forward at the same time and looking back history background what we need to do . So one thing I just should mention earlier in a blender , it's not simply blending whiskey . People think blending is simple , just mixing whiskey , tasting whiskey every day , just blend it . But not like that . We are like a conductor of the orchestra and bits and pieces communicate . A bunch of people get together , looking for the certain direction . Let's go Create music or create value or something appeal to the audience or consumers . So that's what we do . That's what makes me really happy doing Well .
Speaker 1That's awesome . Thank you so much for joining me . Thank you so much for sharing your story . I'll have to look out for a bottle of that in the US market and see if we can find it , but again , thank you so much for coming on For everybody that's listening . Again , this was Jota Tanaka of Fuji Whiskey and I am Brandon Amoroso . You can find us at drinkscom and we will see you next time . Thanks for listening .