STAND with Kelly and Niki Tshibaka
One grew up in Alaska; the other grew up abroad. One is a Daughter of the American Revolution and a descendant of generations of American veterans; the other, the son of an African immigrant and a descendant of Congolese chieftains. One was a government watchdog; the other, a civil rights activist. Both had parents who were homeless for a while, and both graduated from Harvard Law School.
Like you, they have suffered devastating loss and faced overwhelming challenges. Through it all, they’ve found victory over the hardships of life simply by choosing to Stand. Join Kelly, Niki, and their inspiring guests as they move beyond simply talking about issues and challenges, to exploring how to solve and overcome them. Together, we will build a movement of everyday Americans who courageously take a stand for freedom, truth, and a country led by “We the People.”
STAND with Kelly and Niki Tshibaka
Parental Rights and Religious Freedom: Tackling Tyranny with Scott Parkinson and Mike Berry on STAND
When faced with unprecedented challenges, some individuals rise to become champions of freedom. This episode starts by welcoming the conservative U.S. senate candidate Scott Parkinson and exploring his battle to claim Virginia's Senate seat from incumbent Tim Kaine (who ran for VP on Hillary Clinton's Presidential ticket). Parkinson's campaign is fueled by a fervent desire to safeguard our constitutional liberties, a passion ignited by the unconstitutional COVID-19 mandates.
In our candid discussion, Parkinson lays out his blueprint for enriching 'we the people', ensuring that individual liberty flourishes once again within the Commonwealth. We walk through important issues, like LGBTQ rights and their intersection with the parental rights movement, and discuss how the role of faith in politics plays into the broader picture of America’s evolving political narratives.
Next, we join hands with Mike Berry from the First Liberty Institute, a sentinel of religious freedoms, and discuss their defense of 35 courageous US Navy SEALs whose religious convictions put their careers on the line under the Navy’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate. Together, we navigate the waters of federal laws on religious accommodation and the current administration's stance, raising poignant questions about the significance and the respect for religious liberty in the military.
This episode casts a spotlight on the importance of religious freedoms within America, highlighting the trials faced by organizations like Shields of Strength as they strive to provide solace to our soldiers, in light of the larger shift of mainstream political narratives. This episode is not just a report, but a mosaic of viewpoints, as we uncover the impact of this shift on the bedrock of family values, parental rights in education, and religious liberty for all.
You can find out more about Scott’s senate race and support him online at https://scottparkinson.com/.
You can learn more about First Liberty Institute and support this wonderful nonprofit’s work at https://firstliberty.org/.
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Welcome to Stand when Courage is Contagious. We are helping you to stand up to life's challenges, one episode at a time. I'm your host, Kelly Tshibaka, formerly a government watchdog, a candidate for US Senate in Alaska, where I am born and raised, and, as always, I am joined by my co-host, my brilliant husband, a former federal civil rights attorney, Niki Tshibaka, and we are broadcasting from Alaska's Last Frontier Howdy to our audience and community of standouts who helped to make this show possible. Subscribe to our show on your favorite podcast platform or on YouTube at the Stand Show. You can also find us online standshow. org. Follow us on social media. Kelly for Alaska. If you leave a review for the show, you'll be entered to win one of our free stickers. So, if you want a hydro-flask sticker, leave a review on your favorite platform. You might be selected as our lucky winner. And while you're there, make sure to share this episode with a friend or family member to help them stand up to life's challenges.
Kelly Tshibaka:Alright, let's get on to our guests. For today We've got two guests. You want to stay through to the end of the episode, because our second guest is Mike Berry, director of Military Affairs for First Liberty Institute. He'll be talking with us about the legal battles that they're fighting to defend and protect our military members' constitutional rights. We definitely want to be standing with them. Our first guest for today is Scott Parkinson. He's taken the bold and courageous stand of jumping into the race for a United States Senate in Virginia against Democrat Senator Tim Kaine and I'm sure everybody remembers who that is. That was the Vice President candidate who ran with Hillary Clinton. So, you can learn more about Scott and his campaign and support his race at scottparkinson. com. I know you're driving, I'll say it again scottparkinson. com. Scott, we're so excited that you can join us on stand today. Thanks for being here.
Scott Parkinson:Thanks for having me. Kelly and Niki, it's great to be with you.
Kelly Tshibaka:Yeah, this is going to be awesome. So you were in a super tough race and an uphill battle. What inspired you to take on this race and to fight for the Commonwealth of Virginia?
Scott Parkinson:Well, that's a great question. You know, I go back to March 13, 2020, friday, the 13th of all days, right, and that was effectively when the federal government began the COVID-19 lockdowns. The next week, our economy was shedding a million jobs a week. For nine straight weeks, all the schools closed, we had volatility in our stock market and there was a panic that swept Washington DC and extended to our entire country, into executive mansions with governors and states and also into state legislatures, and really this political fear spread like a wildfire and they trampled all over our constitutional rights and really our economic opportunity and prosperity that we hold as the next generation that's going to control the country. And so what I saw was really this political fear that came over Washington. They all overreacted with the lockdowns and the mandates and all the guidance from the CDC and the FDA and Anthony Fauci and Dr Berks and everybody else coming out there basically bullying people into staying home. And my kids were very, very disappointed. My oldest daughter was in fifth grade at the time and she was disappointed that school got closed down. Nobody really knew what was going to happen and it just seemed to me that it was a short-sightedness of Washington DC. And so, a year later when the kids went back to school, they're all forced to wear that mask, they all had to have their temperature taken before they could even enter the school and I felt like we were entering Germany, not reacclimating our children and our students back into the public school system.
Scott Parkinson:So there's been a parents' rights movement very, very much going on in America for school choice and for school freedom. That's a big part of, I think, the race that we have here in Virginia. And then there are also big crises facing America through the illegal immigration crisis, the Biden border crisis and what that means for public safety. We have a big, big problem in Virginia with fentanyl entering our communities and resulting in tragic deaths of not just adults but in students in our schools. We had a very high-profile overdose here at Wakefield High School in Arlington, virginia, last February, and those conversations make it into my community.
Scott Parkinson:Then, when you add in the economic devastation that happened because of the coronavirus pandemic, I felt like it was time to step up, make a difference and try to take out a career politician like Tim Kaine, who has voted for the Biden inflation economy and he's voted for all the COVID tyranny. He's voted for all the infringement and intrusion through big government on our daily lives, and I want to be left alone. I want my family to be left alone. I want us to have these real opportunities. I don't want my generation to be the first generation that leaves the next generation worse off, and so that means that we need to step up and say no to these career politicians like Tim Kaine, who have completely lost their way. I talk about political fear being contagious. So is political courage. We just need more people that have the courage to stand up and fight for us.
Niki Tshibaka:That's really inspiring, Scott, and that whole idea of us, we the people, seems to have been lost on the career bureaucrats and politicians in Washington DC, and we're seeing a movement across the nation where people across party lines are saying, hey, wait a minute, this is a we the people country, not a we the bureaucrat country, and so that's what I hear you saying as part of the inspiration for your campaign. You've kind of touched on some of the differences between you and Tim Kaine. Could you tell us a little bit more about what you would do as senator? What would be different for Virginians?
Scott Parkinson:Well, tim Kaine has been a rubber stamp for Joe Biden, and I'm a dad of four kids. My kids now are 13, seven, three and a half and 19 months, and I'm used to saying no, I'm used to saying slow down, I'm used to saying stop, and I think that we need those leaders in Washington that are willing to stand up and say no to the lockdowns, say no to the COVID tyranny, say no to open borders, say no to Joe Biden. Tim Kaine is a radical progressive. He's completely lost his way. He votes with Bernie Sanders 94 percent of the time and I don't think that America, whether you're in Alaska or here in Virginia, that I don't think we can afford 94 percent of socialism. But the reality is the Democratic Party has abandoned their political base to try to adhere to the radical progressives, and when you do that, there's so many people soft Democrats and independents that have no political base, and I think that we can pick them off and defeat Tim Kaine.
Scott Parkinson:When I get into the Senate, there's a lot of things that I have the experience in doing, having worked for three United States senators, that I'm prepared for day one Half of the work the United States Senate is related to executive branch nominations and judicial nominations. Of course, the high-profile shutdown votes the debt limit, the farm bill, the highway bill, all those big bills, the National Defense Authorization Act those things get a lot of attention. But this week the United States Senate is working on nominations while other negotiations are ongoing behind the scenes. There's actual work going on in the Senate that I'm prepared to do, and I think that Tim Kaine is not an independent voice. I think that he's just somebody that you know. He used to run the DNC. He was Hillary's vice presidential nominating running mate, like you mentioned, and he's somebody that's been in office for nearly 30 years. It'll be 30 years in 2024.
Scott Parkinson:I think that career politicians breed corruption and I think that it's time for new political leadership. On day one of my campaign, I signed the US Term Limits Pledge and I believe in that vision. I think that our founding fathers wanted leaders from the community to step up, go to Washington for a short time and return to their community to be productive citizens and members of that society. But instead, right now in Washington, we have this ruling class of the establishment the Uniparty that come together and they pass everything through the Senate with 70 or 80 votes, and there just aren't enough conservative voices to make a difference. We obviously need to win the Senate majority back so that conservatives have a seat at the table, and I think that that starts with states like Virginia.
Scott Parkinson:Virginia has a Republican governor, glenn Yonkin. He won in 2021. And when you look at the Senate map for 2024, we do have red states Democrats running in Montana with John Tester, west Virginia with Joe Manchin and Ohio with Sherrod Brown. Those are fantastic pickup opportunities, but those opponents have also proven that they can win in red states. I think that there's a tide shifting here in Virginia underneath our Republican governor, glenn Yonkin. And when you look at the other pickup opportunities whether it's Arizona, wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania they all have Democrat governors. Nevada has a new Republican, but I don't see the shift of momentum in the same vein that we have here in Virginia underneath the leadership of Glenn Yonkin. Yonkin's approval rating right now is 57 percent, with only 32 percent disapprove A net 25 percent approval rating in Virginia for a Republican is almost unheard of.
Scott Parkinson:I really do think something's changing here and I'm pleased to step up and fight for the Republican nomination to really take on Tim Kaine to try to make that difference.
Kelly Tshibaka:Let me piggyback on that. So some people not in Virginia would say that Glenn Yonkin's victory is just a fluke and really kind of like a one-time shot and really Virginia belongs to the Democrats. They're political strategists, though. So what would your take? Be on, hey, we need to really get behind the Republican movement. This is not just a statewide race, this is a national race. When you become a US senator, your vote affects the nation, it doesn't just affect your state. How would you, assuming you win the primary, how would you win a statewide race in Virginia? And going into 2024? What's that strategy look like?
Niki Tshibaka:And I think, before you answer that, Scott, we'll probably want to get that answer on the other side of a break, because we're coming up against a break here. That is a fantastic question, Kelly, and I was wondering that myself. There is a lot of thought that Yonkin's victory was a fluke, and so how do we make this a consistent thing? So we're going to take a quick break. We're going to be back with Scott Parkinson, a Republican candidate campaigning for the US Senate in the Commonwealth of Virginia. You can learn more about him at scottparkinson. com. Also, don't forget to subscribe to Stand on YouTube at the Stand Show. Leave us a review on YouTube or on any other podcast platforms you use, and you'll be entered to win a free gift. Stand by friends.
Kelly Tshibaka:Weka is a private security services company operating in Alaska and across the US with nearly a decade of experience providing personal protection, medical support, surveillance and facility event, armed and transport security. Weka provides state-of-the-art security forces by utilizing current and former law enforcement officers, former military and medical personnel to provide for a client's needs in all situations. For more information on Weka and its security services, contact 260. 337-8263. We're back on stand. Remember to share this episode with a friend and subscribe to this podcast. We're back on with Scott, who's telling us about his run for US Senate, and Scott Parkinson how can you win as a Republican for the US Senate in Virginia?
Scott Parkinson:Well, listen, I don't think that it was a fluke for Governor Yonkin to win. I think that there were real policy differences between him and Terry McAuliffe, that his campaign did a great job at laying out and making the case for Republican conservative vision, and that's what we're trying to do against Tim Kaine. We know that in Virginia the rural voters sometimes think that their vote doesn't matter. Governor Yonkin, through the spirit of Virginia, is investing in a big way in the Virginia Republican Party and we're going to boost that turnout in the rural communities. In addition to that, the parents' rights movement has resonated in a big, big way in Northern Virginia, and it's not just in Loudoun County but also in Fairfax and Arlington and Prince William and elsewhere. This is an issue because you have so many families that care more about the future of their children than a progressive ideology that has traditionally encompassed Northern Virginia. So we don't have to win 55 percent of Northern Virginia to win statewide in Virginia. But we can't take 31 or 32 percent like Republicans often do in these statewide races in Virginia. So we're going to fight for every vote here.
Scott Parkinson:I think that there's a lot of soft Democrats, a lot of minorities that are interested in the parents' rights movement that are ready to basically shun the Democrat Party. And they also see Joe Biden, who has become such an unpopular figurehead at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. He's tied with all this corruption. He's obviously struggling with his own mental stamina and I think people are very, very sour on the Democrats nationally. So I'm obviously hoping for a big, big Republican sweep in 2024. But whatever happens nationally, I think is going to be led by what happens here in Virginia, thanks to a lot of the groundwork that Governor Yonkin is doing and those investments that he's making statewide, not just in the state Senate races for 2023, but in the way that that'll pay dividends for candidates like me in 2024.
Kelly Tshibaka:I think you have some strong points there.
Kelly Tshibaka:It reminds me of comments that Democrat leaders in Virginia have made, similar to what Elon Musk put on Twitter. I don't remember how long ago that the Democrat Party has allowed people leaders within the party to move so far left that it's detached itself from what used to be at space and, as a result, a lot of people who haven't moved like Elon Musk put this picture up. He hasn't moved and as the party ran really far left, he now finds himself being a Republican because he stayed in the center and the Democrats moved so far that the spectrum of politics has shifted, and so now Republicans are now encompassing all these people who used to consider themselves as moderate or even left of center. They're now finding themselves in, you know, pretty much in the middle of the Republican Party. It's not because Virginia has changed. It's because the Democrat Party changed, and I think what you're saying is Tim Kaine's voting record shows that that it's gone so far left. It doesn't really represent the people in Virginia anymore. I know, Niki, and I haven't talked about that.
Niki Tshibaka:Niki, you had a question that we were talking about that you wanted to ask Scott too Well yeah, just to pick up on what you were talking about, I mean, the issues that you're campaigning on. I think it's they're so important because they cross party lines. There are issues that, whether you're a Democrat, liberal, conservative, Republican, you care about those things, and one of them is parents' rights and education. We're in a situation now where schools are trying to get between the parents and their children and no parent wants that, whether you know, regardless of your political affiliation. So can you tell us a little bit more about how you would fight for parents' rights and education in the Senate?
Scott Parkinson:Another great question, Niki. Thank you, you know, listen, this is a really, really serious issue because I think that parents are in the best position to make decisions for their kids than anybody else. But when I was a kid, I remember the chief of police in my small town, Baraboo, Wisconsin, which is where I grew up. I remember him coming to the classroom and making sure that he introduced himself to the kids and everybody understood that a police officer was somebody you could trust, and the second person you were supposed to be able to trust were your teachers, you know, outside of the family unit. And right now we have indoctrination happening in our schools and a lot of parents like me realized that this was happening when kids were learning in 2020 and 2021 on a laptop, not in the classroom, because many of us were working from home in the coronavirus era and we got to witness firsthand that sort of education that they were being given. And I think the parents started to step up leading into that 2021 election with Clint Yonkin and said, hey, this isn't right. We want our voice back because we are the defender of our own children and what's acceptable to them and what's not acceptable. You know, I have a little story. My daughter was still in public school in sixth grade. We got her into private school in seventh grade, but in sixth grade she comes home one day and she's totally upset and I said what's going on? And she says well, you know, the kids at school were talking about vaccines and you know I told them that I wasn't vaccinated. And they said I couldn't sit with them at lunch and I just want to get the vaccine. And I said you know, I'm sorry, sweetie, your mother and I we've talked about this. We don't think that the vaccine is safe for you. You're not going to get it. But I'll tell you what if those kids keep talking to you about this, tell them to have their parents come talk to me about it.
Scott Parkinson:And you know, the medical freedom movement, I think, is a big part of parents' rights. It's parents' responsibility to make sure that they do the research related to vaccines, related to mental depression. You know all the issues that I think a lot of these kids are facing right now, because we're basically a lost society. That's far too many families are completely godless, if we're being candid, and we need to have faith as an anchor in our lives. I think that it breeds better outcomes, and so that also means that you need to take charge of your family and make sure that you're going to church and, you know, introducing your children to the gospel. I think that's a very, very important thing. Now, obviously, there's a lot of people that are unfortunately having children out of wedlock, and, you know, we're grateful that they chose life, but we also want them to feel accepted in the church community, and I think that that's also, you know, just something that my church certainly focuses on.
Scott Parkinson:You know, the last thing I would kind of say about the parents' rights movement. Obviously, the LGBTQ crowd has been loud and vocal for 50 years, and at first it was, you know, kind of just like gays and lesbians, and then you got the T in there and the Q in there, and you know, now there's a plus. Do you know what the plus stands for? I mean, it basically stands for what they now are terming maps, minor attracted people, pedophiles, and I don't think that that's actually what the gay and lesbian community stands for. I think that there's a lot of responsible adults that don't want government in the bedroom but also agree that children shouldn't be groomed, and so I think that's a big part of the parents' rights movement in taking back our classrooms and ensuring that they're sticking to math and science and reading and not, you know, indoctrinating kids on, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion and CRT and all this other nonsense.
Kelly Tshibaka:Yeah, let's transition. Scott, it strikes me you're in the state where Oliver Anthony is the singer who's saying that apolitical farmer song Richmond, north of Richmond. He says he's a political, so as Senator, you're going to represent farmers like him and the millions of other Virginians whose views are captured in his song. So for those who haven't heard it, he sings about how all these DC insiders, they want to have control. He wished politicians would look out for miners, meaning in the resource development community, not just miners on an island somewhere, meaning Jeffrey Epstein's island. We've got folks on the street with nothing to eat and people abusing welfare. What's your take on this song and the DC insiders? We've got about a minute or so for you to sum up everything.
Scott Parkinson:Well, I mean, it's a loaded question for sure, but I think it goes back to 2016. Donald Trump fought for the forgotten voter and right now, the forgotten voter feels like politicians career politicians like Tim Kaine have completely lost touch, and there's too many of those folks in Washington DC. I think that Oliver Anthony and his music is representing that class of American citizens that do not have a political base. You know, the song that that replaced is the number one song in America was Try that in a Small Town by Jason Aldean. This isn't just another one of those flukes. I think that there are a lot of Americans out there that just basically want to be left alone and the big government decisions that have repeatedly been dominating our lives and affecting our economic freedom and opportunity, affecting our public safety, you know, with the legal immigration crisis, all that stuff matters, whether it's a small town like Farmville, Virginia, where Oliver Anthony is from, a small town like Baraboo, Wisconsin, which is my hometown, or even a larger urban area like Arlington, Virginia and Washington DC.
Kelly Tshibaka:And I think your point is taken Virginia is changing. If you've got a farmer out in the center of Virginia writing the song that captures the hearts and minds across America, but really he's stationed in Virginia and so many people resonated with those views, and so thank you for having the courage, scottparkinson. com, for standing up and saying I'm going to take on one of these Richmond north of Richmond. If you're interested in seeing more of what Scott's about, you can go to his website, scottparkinson. com. You can support his race. We can replace Tim Kaine, one of these career DC insiders, with somebody who more reflects the values of what Oliver Anthony is saying about. We'll be back right after this break. Stay with us and stand by on stand. We're going to talk about how you can support and stand by our military members in defending their constitutional rights. Thanks for being with us, Scott.
Scott Parkinson:Thank you.
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Kelly Tshibaka:Welcome back to Stand where courage is contagious. We're continuing our show. Our next guest is Mike Berry. He is vice president of external affairs and the director of military affairs senior counsel for First Liberty Institute. Mike served for several years in the US Marine Corps, including being deployed to Afghanistan. Mike, thanks for your service. He served as an adjunct professor of law at the US Navy Academy Naval Academy and testified before Congress on religious liberty issues. And perhaps most importantly, close to my heart, like me, is a graduate of Texas A&M University Woop Gagamaggies, howdy. Mike, thanks for standing for our freedom on the front lines, on battlefields of the Middle East and courtrooms across our nations, and welcome to Stand. We're glad you're here.
Mike Berry:Thanks for having me. It's great to be with you.
Kelly Tshibaka:It's great to have you with us. So First Liberty Institute you guys take on a lot of cases defending and protecting Americans' fundamental rights to follow their conscience and to live according to their beliefs. But today we want to focus on your military cases, those that talk about representing and protecting, defending our military members. So the first case we want to talk about is your case representing 35 US Navy SEALs who are seeking religious accommodations to Biden's Department of Defense SHOP mandate. Can you please tell us about that case?
Mike Berry:Yeah, the Department of Defense of the Biden Administration made the COVID-19 vaccine mandatory for all service members back in 2021. And there are thousands, thousands of people, tens of thousands of people in our military to the vaccine. Their objections could be health related. For many of them, their objections are based on their religious beliefs and, in other words, taking the vaccine would violate their religious beliefs and their conscience. And in this country, the government cannot force somebody to do something to violate their religious beliefs unless it is able to meet a very high standard.
Mike Berry:And the problem was that the Department of Defense, and the US Navy specifically, wasn't meeting that standard. It wasn't even following the legal process that's required under federal law to allow sailors, and specifically these Navy SEALs, who are obviously, you know, the Navy SEALs, need no introduction. I mean, they're like the Olympic athletes of the military right. And they, and every single one of them, requested a religious accommodation, and it was a sham process. It was a rubber stamp. They were all denied and they faced severe punishment and even involuntary separation from the military. They were a dream career that most people dream about becoming SEALs and so these brave 35 Navy SEALs were willing to stand up to the Biden administration and the Department of Defense and First Liberty came to their defense. We represented them and we filed one of the first successful lawsuits in the nation challenging the military's vaccine mandate.
Kelly Tshibaka:I want to ask you when you say involuntary separation, and then they lose their livelihoods, their careers, their dream of becoming US Navy SEAL. What else do they lose? Do they also lose their pension, their benefits, everything that comes with the honor of having served in the military career, everything afterwards?
Mike Berry:Absolutely Yep. If you're, if you're involuntarily separated from the military before you hit 20 years, your, your, your pension has not vested. And so for some of these guys you know, some of them were still pretty early in their career you had others who were sort of at the mid level, so they were maybe 10, 12 years in. But some of them were very, very close to retirement and in fact, if it were, some of them have now reached retirement and they've been able to honorably retire and they're receiving their pensions and they're able to move on with their lives.
Mike Berry:But if it weren't for First Liberty Institute, that never would have happened. They would have been kicked out before they hit the 20 year mark and they would have been left with, you know, 18, 19 years of service to this nation, multiple combat deployments, and again they're Navy SEALs. So I think it doesn't take much imagination to think about the types of missions that they went on to defend our freedom, to defend our nation, to defend our rights, and they had those very rights taken away from them. So that's why this case was so important for us.
Kelly Tshibaka:Right, absolutely so, to set this up. These people said I mean some of the bravest, most courageous military members that we have will lay down our life for you Americans, every day to protect your rights and your liberties. And then the government that they serve said to them we're not going to honor and recognize your freedom of expression, your religious rights and liberties, and even though it immediately puts them into veteran status. When we say that we honor our veterans, they didn't. We didn't as a government honor them. We stripped everything from them. And that's when you guys got involved to say, actually, when you become a member of the military, you don't completely surrender and forfeit all of your constitutional rights and liberties. And then you guys took it to court and you won. At what part in the case did you win? Was it on your first trial? Did you have to go to appeal? What happened?
Mike Berry:Yeah, we won right out of the gate what's called a preliminary injunction. So that's for for lawyers that that's really the first. I guess you know. One of the very first things that happens in a lawsuit is once time and will typically file a motion for a preliminary injunction, and that's asking the court to issue an order. At least in this case, what we did was we asked the court to issue an order telling the Navy you cannot take any punitive action against them and you cannot kick them out.
Mike Berry:And the Navy was kicking and screaming and saying we have to be able to punish them, we have to be able to separate them. And they were, you know, coming up with these outlandish arguments that you know, if they even allow one Navy SEAL to get COVID, that it was going to cause the entire military to crumble, and that you know we were going to have dead bodies. You know everywhere. And you know these ridiculous arguments. And yet, at the very same time and this was critical to our case the Navy was allowing sailors to have medical exemptions and administrative exemptions. So, in other words, the Navy was allowing service members to have exemptions and to not have to get the vaccine if you have a medical reason. So, in other words, if you were the action to the vaccine, the Navy said that's perfectly fine, you don't have to get the vaccine, we don't want you to have an allergic reaction. Or if they had an administrative exemption and some of the reasons if you have exemptions, for example, as if within six months of retirement or leap voluntarily leaving the military they said well, if you're already on your way out, we're not going to make you get the vaccine, you know. And yet, but their whole argument was we have to make sure everybody's vaccinated because it's a health and safety issue.
Mike Berry:So what it turned out, the evidence that we produced in court was no, the Navy is lying. The Navy doesn't care whether or not somebody is vaccinated, because they have unvaccinated service members. The only thing the Navy cares about is the reason you're unvaccinated, and if the reason you're unvaccinated is because of your religious beliefs, then they want to kick you out. You're no longer fit to serve in the Navy and you're essentially a second class citizen. So that obviously was the argument that won at the preliminary injunction stage, thankfully. And then what happened after that was we realized this lawsuit had only been filed on behalf of 35 SEALs and there were still thousands of people in the Navy, beyond just the 35 that we started with, who were in the same boat, and so what we did was we asked the court to expand that 35 SEAL injunction into a class action covering more than 4,000 sailors who had same religious objection, and the court agreed.
Kelly Tshibaka:That's amazing, but that's not the only case that you've done on military members. Niki and I were reading about some of the other cases. Niki, what was the one you wanted him to tell us a story about?
Niki Tshibaka:Oh yeah, there was the story about Stephanie Carter. She's an Army veteran who served our nation's veterans as a Veterans Affairs employee for 23 years. Can you tell us a little bit about that particular case?
Mike Berry:Yeah, stephanie Carter's case is amazing. It's just one woman's courage and it shows what can happen if one American citizen, one brave veteran, is willing to stand up to the man, so to speak, and stand on their rights. And Stephanie Carter, as you mentioned, was a long time employee of the VA, a military veteran herself, but she's also a devout Christian and she holds to very sincere pro-life views. And recently the Department of Veterans Affairs decided they want to start allowing veterans to have free abortions, paid for by the taxpayers. And Stephanie Carter, all she did was ask the VA. She said look, can I please have a religious accommodation and not have to participate in abortions because it violates my religious beliefs? In other words, she wasn't challenging whether or not the VA could continue to allow to provide abortions, she was just saying she didn't want to participate in abortions. So please essentially excuse me from having to do that and we'll find somebody else to do it.
Mike Berry:The VA's response to her was pretty remarkable. They said well, we don't actually have a process for providing religious accommodations, so we don't really have an answer for you. And we filed a lawsuit in federal court and I will. You know I have.
Mike Berry:Look, I'll give some credit to the VA, as once we filed the lawsuit and we brought to their attention the fact that they don't even have a religious accommodation process. That's when they began working with us and they said well, what you know what if we created a process where your client and any other employee in the VA can get a religious accommodation? And we said, okay, you know, we're willing to work with you on that. And that's exactly what happened. We were able to reach a positive result, not only for Stephanie Carter, because she now has a religious accommodation, meaning she doesn't have to participate in abortions, but that process is now available to any employee in the VA. So that again shows you what can happen, that how powerful it is when one person is willing to stand up for their rights, it has that huge ripple effect across the entire VA and across the entire federal government.
Niki Tshibaka:You know that's. That's an amazing story, and what, what concerns me and saddens me, though, is our veterans and people like her and these Navy SEALs. They go out and fight for our freedoms, for our government, and yet they're forced to then fight for their own freedoms, facing our government, you know, at home, and it's. It's just a really sad thing to see where we should be honoring them all the more for what they and their families are willing to lay down for all of us. So really grateful for the work that you guys are doing, and I assume now everything's resolved with Stephanie's case and we have we have a good accommodation, religious accommodation policy with, with the Navy.
Kelly Tshibaka:We should talk about that when we come back from our break, because I think we're up against a break, so let's carry over the discussion when we come back with Mike Berry from First Liberty Institute. You can look at more of their work and what they're doing at firstl iberty. org and support their work. So please go check that out. We definitely want to support their work, first liberty. org. We're at stand with Kelly and Niki Tshibaka on your favorite podcast platform. Please subscribe. Remember, if you leave a review, you could be our lucky audience member who gets a free hydro-flask sticker this week. So please leave a review and like and share so and this episode with one of your friends or family members. We'll see you on the other side of the break. Stand by.
Niki Tshibaka:Welcome back to stand. We're with Mike Berry, a Marine Corps veteran and vice president of external affairs for First Liberty Institute. Mike, we were just talking right at the end of the last segment. I was just asking about that religious accommodation policy. Is that now in place and that does that only apply to people who are trying to excuse themselves from being involved with abortions for religious reasons, or is it a more blanket religious accommodation policy to handle all kinds of situations?
Mike Berry:Yeah, that that policy is now in place across the entire VA.
Mike Berry:Stephanie Carter herself has taken advantage of it, so she has a religious accommodation, and anyone else in the VA can also seek a religious accommodation.
Mike Berry:And you know the federal law doesn't limit itself to only those who have a religious objection to abortions. So, just as you indicated, you can ask for religious accommodation from from anything you know. I mean, I know it's not necessarily one of the cases that we're covering today, but an example is one of the cases we just won at the US Supreme Court and the unanimous decision is a federal postal service employee who asked to be accommodated a religious accommodation to not have to work on Sundays because he's a Sabbath observant Christian. So you can request an accommodation to observe the Sabbath, to not participate in abortions, to not have to eat certain types of food, etc. So on and so forth. So yes, under federal law, americans have the right to seek a religious accommodation from pretty much anything doesn't mean that you're going to get it granted, you know. It just means the government now has to meet a very high standard if it's going to deny it.
Kelly Tshibaka:It's great news. It's great to hear about all these victories. Something I appreciate about your organization is you don't just advocate on behalf of Christians, you advocate on behalf of all religious liberties, which is so fundamental under the US Constitution. I read about a case that you're advocating for online called Shields of Strength for our military personnel. I could get into all the details in the story that are just a tearjerker, but could you tell us the story from your perspective, because I know you guys are right in the center of it?
Mike Berry:Yeah, I mean this is a case that's currently right in the middle of litigation that's been ongoing now. But Shields of Strength is a company. It's a faith based company based in Texas. The owner is Kenny Vaughn. He's the founder and owner of Shields of Strength and for decades he's very passionate about our country and he's a huge supporter of our military and for decades he has produced and made available to service members, to veterans, to their families, their loved ones, what I would call a replica dog tag. So this is not your military issued dog tag, but this is a replica dog tag that looks like a military dog tag. The difference is on one side of the dog tag it will have something like you know proud army wife or proud Air Force veteran and on the other side it'll have a Bible verse. You know, and it can be pretty much any Bible verse you want that can fit on a dog tag.
Mike Berry:I mean, obviously very popular ones might be John 316 or something like that. And for years the military loved these Shields of Strength. In fact I had one when I was on active duty. I knew a lot of people that had them. Chaplains would hand them out like candy because people they were really, really popular. Well, lo and behold, the Department of Defense decided that they wanted to shut down Shields of Strength. Why? Because they began trademarking the military logos and the word army and the word Air Force and they began demanding royalty payments from others. And what they told? Not just Kenny Vaughan and Shields of Strength, but pretty much any company that wanted to make anything relate to any kind of military paraphernalia. They said you can make the paraphernalia and you can produce it and you can, you know, sell it or give it away or whatever, as long as it doesn't have religious words or phrases on it.
Mike Berry:So, in other words, they were singling out targeting Bible verses, religious words, God bless America, things like that, and saying you can make these and you can distribute them, as long as they don't have anything religious on them. That's just blatant discrimination Under law. You cannot single out religion for less favorable treatment. You know, if you can put on one side, go Cowboys or go, you know, insert the name of your favorite sports team, then you can also put God bless America or John 316. But we've had to take this case to federal court because the Pentagon has dug in its heels and they you know they just refuse to back down.
Mike Berry:So, and look, it's a replica dog tag that has an inspiring and encouraging scripture verse on it. You know, maybe from the book of Jeremiah right, I will not be afraid, I will be strong and courageous. You would think that's exactly the type of thing that we want people in our military wearing around their neck, keeping close to their heart, as a source of motivation and encouragement, and yet instead our Department of Defense is trying to squelch that and take that away. I think it's in line with what we were talking about before the break, which is religious hostility in our military really seems to be on the rise, when people of faith. As you said, it's not just Christians, it's people of any faith are finding themselves with a big target on their back if they're serving in our military, and yet they're the very people who are out there on the front lines defending our religious freedom, so they shouldn't have it taken away from them.
Niki Tshibaka:Mike? Why do you think that it's on the rise? What has precipitated all of this, do you think?
Mike Berry:Well, I can certainly tell you that under the current administration, there's just a flat-out disrespect for religion and for religious freedom. They don't respect people of faith. They certainly don't want to be tolerant of them. It's funny how we continually are told you've got to be tolerant, we need diversity. Well, what they really mean is we want people who believe exactly what we want them to believe, and we only want diversity when it's the type of diversity that favors us. But if it's a person of faith, then they're intolerant of it.
Mike Berry:And so that hostility, I think, comes from just number one, they don't understand the constitution and what it means, how it is in the military context. And number two, they don't respect the value that faith and religion and spiritual fitness provides to our military. Religious freedom is truly a force multiplier, because the vast majority of people who serve in our military are people of faith. Every statistical measure, every survey, every poll conducted continues to show, year after year, that people most likely to join the military are people who self-identify as highly religious, that's who joins the military more than anybody else. And yet those are the very same people who are being told you're not welcome here and yet. And then our Pentagon scratches their head and wonders why we have such a recruiting crisis.
Kelly Tshibaka:As you can see, based on the cases that you're telling us, I think we all can understand now why we have a recruitment problem. If you're saying the people most likely to join the military are people who are people of faith, and then the military isn't honoring and making accommodations for faith, then they're not finding themselves welcome in the military. I want to follow up on this Shields of Faith case. Where are you guys at in this process? I mean the Vaans. It seems like they've been in this fight for a while and lawfare can drag out for a really long time and be hard on the heart and it's just a morale challenge. You started the first court, you go to the appellate court, then the other appellate court and then maybe the Supreme Court. Where are you guys at in that process?
Mike Berry:We're still at the trial court, so it's still in the early stages of this and, as you point out, it can be a long, difficult road, especially for the clients.
Mike Berry:I do think it's important to point out that one really neat thing about First Liberty is we are a nonprofit and so everything we do is pro bono. Our clients will never receive a bill from us. So even though litigation is very, very expensive, we cover that and we make sure that our clients don't have to face that expense. We cover that for them. But that also means that First Liberty, we're using our own resources to do that. So we are a nonprofit. We're 100% donor funded. So if people want to learn more or learn how to support us, we encourage them to go to firstliberty. org so that you can learn about our cases. And I'll just say this as well I know I'm biased, but I'm very proud to be a part of First Liberty, because we are one of the very few organizations out there that when we see this type of injustice whether it's the Navy SEALs, whether it's Stephanie Carter, whether it's Shields of Strength we fight.
Mike Berry:And we fight and we win.
Kelly Tshibaka:Yeah, and that's one of the reasons we wanted to have you on today. Mike, Niki and I actually encountered the leader of First Liberty, Kelly Shackleford, gosh, before we were married, right, Niki? We were in our career when we were so law students and he's been in this fight all this time and just watching the successes that your organization has had. And you're absolutely right, you're in the fight and you're legit and you fight on this battle front and then on so many others for people and have made incredible and significant gains for First Amendment rights for all Americans. What you do for one client here actually like the postal worker case that actually just reverberates across the nation that's huge for all workers' rights to be able to have religious accommodation and observances in the workplace. So again, they're at firstliberty. org and what Mike is saying is that their clients don't actually have to do the financial lift. They're already taking a stand by saying, hey, I'm going to put my name out there, my family out there, be targeted in public and social media.
Kelly Tshibaka:Go through years and years of taking on this fight when First Liberty says, yeah, we'll take on the financial burden, but when First Liberty means that Mike here isn't forking out the dollars, he's doing the legal work, and so what they do is they ask people like our audience if we could stand with them in the battle and say we can pitch in five bucks or 50 bucks or, for some of us who are particularly generous, 500 bucks and help along with this. So if you feel like you want to stand up for our military members and help them with their First Amendment rights to free exercise of religion, please jump online firstliberty. org and see what you can do to help, and then you'll also see all the other amazing cases that they're doing, because this is just one sliver of it. Mike, thank you so much for being with us today. We really appreciate it, giving us insight into all these cases. We'd love to have you back sometime. We really appreciate all that you're doing.
Mike Berry:Well, thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.
Kelly Tshibaka:Yeah, absolutely. And, standouts, you can subscribe to our podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Stand with Kelly and Niki Tshibaka. Find us on social media Kelly for Alaska, YouTube @The Stand Show and, of course, if you leave a review, you can be our lucky audience member this week who gets a free sticker. Someone asked me what's a hydro flask? If you don't know, that's cool. It's like the cool new bumper sticker of the 21st century. So if you want to be that lucky audience member, please be sure to leave a review and we will catch you next week. Stand firm, stand strong. Often, the victory comes simply in the standing. We'll see you soon.
