Caring Across Generations with So Sun

In this episode of Care Of, we speak with So Sun about their recent project called "Uljiro Has No Park." They discuss the process of creating the project, the use of 3D modeling and storytelling, and the importance of nature in the artwork. The guest also shares their experience of caring for their grandmother and how it has influenced their work and daily life.

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This podcast is created and hosted by Computational Mama
Produced, edited by Beatnyk
Intro and outro pieces by Beatnyk

With emotional support from:
Suvani Suri
Agat Sharma
Nanditi Khilnani

Transcript

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Hi, welcome to Care Of. This is a short form podcast featuring conversations with creators,

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creative technologists about code, work and care. As I traverse ideas and realities of

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care in my life with first my grandparents and now my son, I recognize some shifts in

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the ways of thinking and working, differences in access available or afforded to me. And

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I can't help but wonder how care translates to others in the creator community. This podcast

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wonder how care translates to others in the creator community.

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This podcast is a simple attempt to open up, investigate,

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and document our practices from the lens of care.

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Mathematically, this care is directly

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proportional to time management.

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OK, so we are restarting.

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Let's see if this works.

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All right.

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I think you can hear me now, yes?

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Undoubtedly, undoubtedly.

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How do you say that word?

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Yes.

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Undoubtedly. Undoubtedly. How do you say that word?

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I need to share my parent relaxed with other creative coding people.

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I will always be your number one hype woman.

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Okay, good, good. I'm not used to talking this much.

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Like, I guess I'm out of shape.

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I do actually feel like, to me, the word care,

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I love that you're coming at this discussion with that word.

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And I think that's not the usual perspective that you will start with

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when it's, you know, in a sort of like tech or computer science or coding space.

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in a sort of like tech or computer science or coding space.

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So there's all these different spaces of care to navigate.

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I'll just introduce our guest today.

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We have So Sun with us.

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She is a creative technologist.

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She's currently in Seoul, Korea.

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She has been working with web platforms and libraries like P5.js and 3.js.

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She majored in theater and media in undergrad.

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She found out about VR and creative technology during her senior year.

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undergrad. She found out about VR and creative technology during her senior

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year and since then she's been pursuing the path of a web developer and creative

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technologist. Oh, so does that kind of mean that you learned coding on your own?

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Like sort of, but I did take com-sci courses in my undergrad. I took

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like one or two classes per year. It wasn't enough for me to like

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per year. It wasn't enough for me to graduate as major or minor, but I was pretty close to minor,

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doing a minor, but it was kind of too late because I decided to focus on programming

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junior, senior year, so that was a bit late to change. But after my school,

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After my school, before I came back to Korea, I tried the summer camp from NYU ITP.

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And yeah, I learned a lot of creative technology, creative coding there.

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And decided that maybe I want to study more programming, either through BrookCamp or on my own.

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on my own. So after I came back to Korea, there was this like a pretty nice... It was almost free

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like the dorms and the classes. It was sponsored by this university and some company in Korea. So

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yeah, I went to this boot camp and it was more focused on like big data and AI. But still it was

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was more focused on big data and AI. But still, for me, it was a good experience to spend

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a good amount of time just studying programming and computer science. So yeah, after that

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boot camp, I got a job, like full-time job as a developer. And yeah, since then, I'm

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And yeah, since then I'm working as a web dev and also doing like creative tech stuff.

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So the ITP thing was... the boot camp was also in the US?

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No, no, no. Boot camp was in Korea.

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Yeah, just wanted to clarify that.

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So I mean, I've been following your journey of creative coding for like almost, I would say like now two years plus.

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Just like maybe as Eliza said, pre-pandy.

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two years plus just like maybe as Eliza said pre-pandy. So I just I think I mean

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I've mentioned this to you of course a couple of times but I think aside from

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the work it was really exciting for me to see your grandma in some of the

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stories. Oh thank you. Because it kind of endeared me to the fact that okay you're

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you're kind of you're with her but also that you're quite open to like sharing

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sharing her stories and like, you know, having her, her life kind of be open in your Instagram

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because I think everyone tends to have very like curated kind of stories and here was

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someone who was like, very quite honestly having these strange little snippet conversations,

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which I couldn't understand obviously, because I'm Korean, but thanks for that. So I'll quickly

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So I'll quickly, maybe we'll jump a little bit into the questions.

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And I think the first one is the simpler one where we talk about a project you care about.

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Yeah, I guess this one project, if I have to pick one project, I already talked with you before.

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But I would say it's this my recent project that I made with 3js.

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my recent project that I made with 3JS.

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It's called Uljiro has no park.

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Uljiro is like one of the districts in Seoul, in Korea.

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And this project was a part of the art grants

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like project, like an installation

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yeah, installation piece funded by

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the Seoul Foundation of Arts and Culture.

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funded by the Seoul Foundation of Arts and Culture

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I've been more used to making daily sketches with P5JS

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as you saw on, you know, in my Instagram

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So until this one, I was just more doing this like day by day

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like daily coding kind of works

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So it was quite refreshing for me to have like a bit longer term process of organizing ideas, like making storylines, modeling and programming all together

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Because I wouldn't do that like on like a daily sketches

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Like not this thoroughly and this one was almost like it almost took like four to five months

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It almost took like four to five months. So that was like a pretty long

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Yeah, like a long-term process for me and

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Since I'm coming from a theater background, like I've always known myself like I enjoy good stories

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I like, you know, like those like dramas or cartoons or you know, anything any content with like a good storylines

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so but I

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couldn't really

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lines. But I couldn't really combine it with the technology so far besides like VR or you

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know other like story heavy content. So it was like a meaningful opportunity for me to

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try storytelling element with technology. And because while doing this Uljiro project,

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Like, it was the whole gist of this art was, the whole project was imagining the future of this city.

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So I had to sort of come up with like a rough like synopsis, like kind of like a sci-fi novel thing.

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Yeah, and also during the process, like my producer actually shared some sci-fi novel references.

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the process, my producer actually shared some sci-fi novel references or other movies, images

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and I found out that I really enjoy sci-fi. And I was almost sad that I didn't realize

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how exciting this whole sci-fi word is when I was younger. If I had known it, I would

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like known it I would like read so much more books or cartoons but yeah anyways like this project and

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the whole process was um they overall gave me great lessons and inspirations so um yeah this

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was an impressive one for me and I guess when um since the question was like that I care about and

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care about and I think one of the main topics of this project was nature. So this is one

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of the reasons why I care about this project compared to other like creative coding sketches

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that I've done before. I made an... So as I said, this is an imaginative park with like

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with nature elements and I added low poly trees, L-system trees, and also geometric grass fields

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because I was making most of the world with 3JS coding.

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And long story short, my interest in nature and probably one of the reasons why I

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put this nature element in this project is

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put this nature element in this project is

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my home environment is so close with nature.

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I live with my mom and my grandma, my whole family.

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And since I was young, we always have

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like flowers and plants at home.

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And there's a mountain literally right next to my home.

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So like in our village.

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literally right next to my home. So like in our like village. So yeah and we live in a suburb area

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so we're just like I've been close to nature the whole time and even when I was not living

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with my family like my high school or my college like weird enough like they were all

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weird enough, they were all in the middle of mountains or in the middle of nature.

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So yeah, I think that's kind of one of the reasons why I care about this project.

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Yeah.

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Great. I mean, I really like that you kind of referenced it back to your home,

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especially because the project is...

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So I suppose Iljero Park is very much about...

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Euljiro Park is very much about has no park is it sort of isn't that a locality like in the middle of Seoul?

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Yeah, it's so is it does it have any like aside from the I mean very obvious fact that you're saying it has no park

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But is most of the city like that like there are very few

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like

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so Euljiro

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actually, there is like a

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Artificial

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artificially made lake, like a long lake which crosses through Seoul city.

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And that lake has sort of... It's not like a circular or square park that we imagine as a park.

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But it's just like a long stream and people can stop by or walk along.

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can like stop by or like walk you know walk along but like Uljiro especially

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there are so many like stores and buildings and the gentrification is happening so it's kind of

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it was kind of besides that lake and that artificially made place it was pretty hard to

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It was pretty hard to find nature

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So yes, there is kind of a park you can say nearby

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But to me, it didn't feel like functioning as a park in the city

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Right, I was hoping to understand because I remember very clearly that you had put a lot of these interesting pictures

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pictures from like or even screen grabs from your work with Monster Mash and how

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you kind of created all those characters. So maybe if you can tell us a bit more

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about that process, like how you were thinking about it. Because of course

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building the space is one thing but like why those characters in particular? Like

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is there a reference to them? How that kind of the journey, how did it come about?

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Yeah, so since I wanted to build a 3D environment, I definitely needed like 3D modeling.

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But like I spent a lot of time thinking about the ideas and how to you know like make some story with this city and like in my work.

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So well, like one of the first reason I picked Monster Mash like is well first it was really really fun

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Just to play around with it like I found about Monster Mash through this like some Instagram post

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like a pretty big project featured in SIGGRAPH.

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And yeah, like, and it's just like so quick,

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like you can draw anything and then it will turn into 3D.

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And like that sort of like a very, you know,

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kindergarten feeling of, you know, drawing and like,

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you know, changing and like playing around with it.

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Like that element was really fun for me.

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That element was really fun for me.

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And also, I'm not a 3D modeler.

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I'm trying to learn Blender more.

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But I'm not there yet to model a lot of fancy things.

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So, just the look of these monster-matched creatures,

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I thought it was just perfect for me.

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To just put it in my word.

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I just put it in my word.

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And also, my producer actually told me to...

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He actually recommended it.

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I showed him this...

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There is something called Monster Mash

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and you can do this like this.

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And I intended to use it just for the sketch purpose

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in the beginning.

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in the beginning and later I tried to use more 3js geometries and maybe hire a blender person

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or buy 3D assets. But then he actually suggested that when the producers and also other artists

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other artists that I did installation with, they really liked my hand drawing feelings and

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they knew I'm not coming from a fine art or design background. So I think they almost

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felt like this feels like a little kid drawing something. So yeah, so my producer

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Yeah, so my producer recommended it. I think that kind of embraces your own style in some way.

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And he told me that it seems like there's something to explore there.

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So why don't you just try with that, you know, like a quirky, like, you know, like a fuzzy, you know, movement and all that.

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movements and all that. So yeah, and I just wanted to make something just

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enjoyable and like fun to watch. So although this could be some like serious

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like topic or issue, like in general like yeah I just want people to

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like have fun with it. So just you know like as a as an element of humor.

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just as an element of humor.

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And you'd put it up as a physical installation, am I right?

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For a couple of months or some weeks or something?

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Yeah, we had to. And mine is available as an online website

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if you have a good GPU, a good graphic card.

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Because it has a lot of 3D models there. I tried to optimize it

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Yeah, because it has a lot of 3D models there. I tried to optimize it, but there's a certain limit.

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But yeah, in the gallery, that piece was there for two months along with other artists' works.

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And yeah, we kind of made it like a game, you know, just like a racing game.

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game, you have like three or four monitors in front of you and you like

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sit in the chair and like play with a, what is it, like a PlayStation, Xbox

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controller. So it was like a similar setting. I posted on my Instagram too. So

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you can see like three TV screens and like a sofa and this like one Xbox

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Xbox controller and my producer and I, we decorated the whole place, the whole space

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with fake grass. So that, yeah, in the whole gallery, that space was like the only, you

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know, like the only space with like a fake grass, like a nature vibe. So, yeah.

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like a little patch of grass in the middle of nowhere.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And was there any kind of response that you really like was unexpected for you

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when it happened in the physical space or something that you really loved about the way people were interacting with the piece?

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Yeah, I think like people, well, I wasn't there the whole time,

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there the whole time but I put these interaction memos which kind of pop up when the user comes

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close enough to each model. So when they interact with this robot face or a human 3D character

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like a person, like a human 3D character, then this like a little message will pop up

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as if, you know, kind of like an NPC sort of vibe. So yeah, I think people... A lot

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of people actually like more than I expected enjoy the interaction and just like walking

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around I think just walking around in the space and just seeing all these like weird

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And just seeing all these weird 3D models and trying to figure out what is this, what

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is this model, where is this model coming from and try to match with something they

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saw in Euljiro.

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Because I picked some of those models from the actual graffiti arts in Euljiro city.

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So I would literally just take a photo of it or kind of like a copy, draw it and then

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just like take a photo of it or kind of like a copy draw it and then like made it as a 3D.

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So some people would like recognize those, oh this is what I saw like when I was coming here

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you know something like that. And like yeah all the coffee shops or kind of like a hipster

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sort of elements in the city like I would just like you know throw a lot of like elements that

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like elements that people might remember. So yeah, that was fun to watch. But at the

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same time, I guess the audience who are into gaming, they catch up really quick. They know

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like where to go, they know what to do and everything. But if he or she is not really

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if he or she is not really into gaming and not really familiar with all these computers

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or Xbox controlling, then they can get easily frustrated.

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So yeah, I think that's kind of maybe because our audience and gaming people, there's some

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sort of distance, I guess.

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So yeah, that's interesting to watch.

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And I realized again that I should make UI or UX much more friendly to people

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if I'm introducing this to public.

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So yeah, that was a good lesson.

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I didn't know about the sci-fi references,

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but I just felt like maybe if you can tell us a bit more about the ones that you read

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Maybe if you can tell us a bit more about the ones that you read and how that's kind

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of changing the way you're thinking about all of this now.

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Yeah, so my producer introduced me to this book called Folding Beijing.

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So it's a sci-fi novel that talks about the future of Beijing, which is even now overpopulated

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and how the city can handle these people.

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how the city can handle these people.

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So it talks about like hierarchy and like time and space of the city,

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how all these people are going to share the same space and like limited resources.

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So in general, I was kind of influenced by it.

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And also because this project was imagining the future

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So, because this project was imagining the future and I wanted to bring some sci-fi elements

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I just made a really direct reference, like drawing robots and robots plus animals or

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mutations of robots and humans, something like that.

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those things and quickly made them into drawings. Because like Euljiro is like

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one of the city, one of the districts in Seoul that has a lot of hardware shops

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and like computer or electric electronic devices. Like they sell a lot of those

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They sell a lot of those in Uljiro.

254
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And it's kind of like an insult if you're buying electronic devices or wires.

255
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That's the place you go.

256
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It has a lot of shops.

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So when I was imagining the future, if Uljiro is still alive in the future, then yeah, they

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will probably...

259
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And at some point, they would have to either follow the trend or move on to the next technologies.

260
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So I thought, because this is a district of hardware, maybe it will turn into something

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related to robotics.

262
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So yeah, I just try to bring in sci-fi elements there.

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That's pretty cool.

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elements there.

265
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:18,000
Right, that's pretty cool. But I'll refocus the context a bit because we've been speaking

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about the project. So as I mentioned, I was sort of drawn to you and your work because

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of your stories. I think around like when I was 24, 25, I also had to kind of move to

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look after grandparents. And I mean, they're really independent in that sense, but also

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sometimes they need a lot of help. And I think when I saw your stories, I could sense that

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need a lot of help and I think when I saw your stories I could sense that

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you know there was this... I mean I can sense that you know she has a

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very strong streak which is very independent but also you can see

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the physically that she needs help and that was something that I was

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always curious about and I always like to know what people are behind

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the sketch, behind the code that you're doing and what you're doing in terms of

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behind the sketch, behind the code that you're doing and what you're doing in terms of your practice,

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in terms of your workflow at home. For example, the reason I got into coding was

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very simple that I was doing museums which take many many years and

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suddenly I could do code and the response was five minutes and it worked really well with me having a very small baby whose

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needs were always much faster.

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Needs were always much faster. So like, okay, you finished it and you can go do your diaper change or like go give food or

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Cleanup or whatever else right? So it so now my workflow has kind of built around that idea that

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The focus for the child has to have like a little bubble and the focus of the work has to have a bubble

284
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Sometimes the bubbles interconnect like the interruptions and things like that

285
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So now like if I know okay uninterrupted work means the child should be asleep

286
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like that. So now like if I know uninterrupted work means the child

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should be asleep. So like right now Yugen is asleep. So I just wanted to know a

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bit more about all of those kind of ideas. Like I think did you studied

289
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in your university in Korea? Were you abroad somewhere?

290
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,560
Oh yeah I was in New York.

291
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Yeah so tell us a bit about how you know like moving, coming back and all of those

292
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and then a little bit about more about the question.

293
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about more about the question.

294
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,440
Yeah, like when I was in New York, as I said,

295
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,680
like I started with like theater and media and then I got into technology.

296
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Like I decided to like focus on technology a little later.

297
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I guess it's really interesting that you said how the speed of like coding and like,

298
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you know, like a work tempo kind of like a match with your lifestyle.

299
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That's really interesting.

300
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,760
Like I don't think like that's kind of like how I'm doing it,

301
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:42,360
I don't think that's kind of like how I'm doing it, but I think it makes sense for me

302
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:49,480
now because I'm doing programming or in other works at home while I have to sometimes go

303
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,480
see and check if my grandma is doing okay time to time.

304
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Kind of using that as a break time, I guess.

305
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,940
But anyway, back to the...

306
00:25:59,940 --> 00:26:02,540
I came back to Korea and all that.

307
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I came back to Korea and all that.

308
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:08,960
So after my college and I worked for a year in New York

309
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And then I came back to Korea

310
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Around then, I wanted to work in New York City

311
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Like just continue it

312
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,080
But at the same time, I knew my grandma is getting old

313
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Maybe I want to spend more time with her

314
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,400
You know, like I don't know when you know when

315
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,640
She's gonna get sick or you know, whatever what happens. So I wanted to take

316
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:39,920
Um or spend more time with her. So I came back to Korea and after a year or less than that

317
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:47,200
Yeah within a year she got hospitalized because like she got sick. Um, there was something in her brain

318
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,340
So yeah, that's just um unforgettable

319
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,000
So yeah, that's just unforgettable.

320
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:57,800
But it was really a God's miracle that she got better because all doctors were saying

321
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,000
that it's almost like a 60%…

322
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,840
Like 6 to 4, you know, or even less than that because she's very old now.

323
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:14,280
She's over like 95 right now and that was just a few years ago.

324
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,600
So she was still like over 90s or something.

325
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,840
was like just a few years ago.

326
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,880
So she was still like over 90s or something.

327
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:24,080
So yeah, like after that I think I was working as a developer in Korea.

328
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,880
And I was like, okay maybe I can spend more time with her.

329
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:35,840
And while I'm you know kind of like settled down with my career.

330
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,640
More kind of used to getting like you know adjusting to my new career as a developer.

331
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,600
or kind of used to getting, you know, adjusting to my new career as a developer.

332
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,000
I'm not like planning to like stay in Korea forever.

333
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,600
Like I don't know what's gonna happen.

334
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:53,600
Like you know, but at least I'm trying to like make my time here worth it.

335
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:59,600
And when I'm in Korea, like I try to take care of my grandma and spend more time with

336
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:00,600
her.

337
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:06,180
Because I can sort of see like how when a person gets old like they might feel like you know

338
00:28:06,420 --> 00:28:10,960
You can't really do a lot of things like she used to do a lot of housework

339
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:17,980
So a lot of chores or like shopping like, you know, like farming but now she can't do most of it

340
00:28:17,980 --> 00:28:19,980
so I guess one of my

341
00:28:20,660 --> 00:28:24,100
responsibilities or one of the things that I do for her is that

342
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,560
But just making sure that she has something to do.

343
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,560
It could be like housework.

344
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,620
But sometimes it's reading.

345
00:28:33,620 --> 00:28:37,760
Sometimes it's coloring the drawing books.

346
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,200
Or taking care of flowers.

347
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,440
Phone call with my aunt.

348
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,660
All that stuff.

349
00:28:45,660 --> 00:28:52,400
I don't know how I can sort of connect it with my programming or coding practices yet.

350
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:55,680
with my programming or coding practices yet. But I don't know, I take a lot of videos of my grandma.

351
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,360
Just trying to appreciate daily times that I spend with her.

352
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:04,000
Yeah, that's very interesting. Like keeping them busy kind of a thing.

353
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:11,680
I mean, I sense that sometimes me and my mom, we do that for my grandma.

354
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:19,000
you know, hey, why don't you make that favorite dish that you know, my son, he loves something

355
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,160
or whatever. So then she'll be like, okay, let me do this. She's 88. She's also like

356
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:31,200
now feeling that kind of. And I think it's almost like, they are a little bit more homebound

357
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:36,680
and very trapped. And they are a generation of women who are always very busy and, you

358
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,640
know, like moving around doing the things that needed to be done and very responsible

359
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:45,000
and moving around doing the things that needed to be done and very responsible and no time to relax kind of generation

360
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:54,000
So yeah I mean I can sense that but does she enjoy these kind of exercises like the coloring and all that or like

361
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,000
Did you like discover it or like how did that happen?

362
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:08,720
I think like after she got sick, you know, because it was her brain like you know, it

363
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:18,640
was like a tumor in her brain. So I was thinking like what would be like a good you know exercise

364
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:27,280
for her or her brain. So I was thinking and then like I went to the bookstore and I saw

365
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:29,760
Like I went to the bookstore and I saw this like a coloring book

366
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:36,160
But it was only like flowers. So I thought okay. Well my grandma she likes flowers

367
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,120
Like why don't I just you know, why don't we try this?

368
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,560
so I gave it to her and I gave her all the color pencils and

369
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,240
Like she was so focused

370
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,360
Surprisingly, she was so focused on it

371
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,400
She was so focused on it.

372
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,000
And I think like…

373
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,000
And later, I asked her like,

374
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,100
why are you doing this?

375
00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:55,200
Or why are you enjoying this?

376
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,500
And she told me that

377
00:30:57,500 --> 00:30:59,800
she thought this was sort of like a homework.

378
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,200
She thought this was like a homework for me.

379
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,300
And she was doing like…

380
00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:05,000
I don't know.

381
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,600
She thought she was helping me.

382
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:07,400
And I had to like…

383
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,000
Because I was constantly like taking pictures and videos.

384
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,600
She almost thought like,

385
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,400
oh I'm doing this for her.

386
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:14,000
You know?

387
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,500
She would just sit there for a few hours.

388
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,000
I'm doing this for her, you know?

389
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,560
She would just sit there for a few hours

390
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,560
and she wouldn't take a break

391
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,560
And that's why she got kind of exhausted

392
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,560
after that one book

393
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,960
I was trying to give her another book

394
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,160
and she was so exhausted

395
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:27,440
She was like, I'm not gonna do this

396
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,440
This hurts my back

397
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,200
So we told her, this is not an assignment

398
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,240
This is not a homework

399
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,240
We're just doing this for fun

400
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,240
But the funny thing is like

401
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,280
If this is not something valuable

402
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:43,040
But the funny thing is like, if this is not something like valuable, you know, like just for fun

403
00:31:43,940 --> 00:31:48,640
She acted as if like this is not like a reason to be motivated

404
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,900
So she was more motivated when this was like a very important task

405
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:59,560
so I'm just like kind of like faking it, you know, like I had to like encourage her in many ways and

406
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,840
So yeah, she's taking more breaks now

407
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,200
So yeah, she's taking more breaks now.

408
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,900
I'm like telling her not to do everything at once.

409
00:32:07,900 --> 00:32:11,700
Like just, you know, color just one flower like today.

410
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:14,300
And like this another flower is for tomorrow.

411
00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:15,900
Like you don't need to finish it now.

412
00:32:15,900 --> 00:32:18,600
Like I have to like constantly remind her of that.

413
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:19,800
So that's kind of funny.

414
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:20,900
And she's like...

415
00:32:20,900 --> 00:32:23,800
She actually has like a pretty good sense of colors.

416
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,600
So I'm very surprised with that.

417
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,100
And I'm glad that we like try that.

418
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:29,240
So I'm very surprised with that and I'm glad that we tried that.

419
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:34,240
And recently, I'm trying to make her exercise.

420
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,800
We just do a little ball game.

421
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:42,240
So I would just throw a ball and we would just keep throwing a ball to each other.

422
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:49,400
And yeah, I'm just trying a lot of different things that I can give her more energy.

423
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,280
Give her more energy.

424
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,400
Does she talk a lot about the past?

425
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,240
Like my grandma is constantly talking about the past

426
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,120
and her life as a child and her home.

427
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,440
And I don't know. Is that a common theme?

428
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,040
Yeah, it is.

429
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,520
She used to talk about it a lot more a few years ago.

430
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,880
But now, not much.

431
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,320
Maybe she doesn't remember it as clearly as before.

432
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:18,560
remember it as clearly as before. Because like when her cousins or her niece or nephews,

433
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:28,400
when they call her, it's sort of hard for her to remember who she is or who he is.

434
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:36,240
So yeah, but like five years ago, she talked a lot. Like she talked a lot about her past and

435
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,400
She went through like Korean War and everything and she was in the middle of that.

436
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,400
She remembered everything so clearly.

437
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:49,000
And I was taking a video art class in New York in my college.

438
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,400
So I actually made one video out of her story.

439
00:33:53,400 --> 00:34:03,000
So we would video chat for a few days and I would just write down the whole story that she said multiple times and organize it.

440
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:07,000
multiple times and organize it. And then I made that as my video art project.

441
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,000
And it was really interesting.

442
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:14,000
It reminds me, there's an artist, she's a black artist from Britain.

443
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:20,000
And her grandmother and her have this kind of relationship, quite close,

444
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:26,000
like how we are conversing about. And she did an art project where she would make

445
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:30,480
an art project where she would make her grandma cross stitch some kind of little sentences

446
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:36,760
and phrases and then the same thing like you know how you mentioned that it was very much

447
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,640
like a very like project oriented kind of thing and the focus. So when the artist moved

448
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:47,120
on to another project, the grandmother was almost like okay now but now what now that's

449
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,280
So that's very interesting.

450
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:58,080
I think you also mentioned in your notes that you were not so focused on home and family,

451
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,280
and then things kind of changed, I guess,

452
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,160
because of this incident and the medical incident and all.

453
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,720
But do you sense that,

454
00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:11,920
I do recall that my pace and movement are very

455
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,480
different when I'm at home versus when I'm in a work environment.

456
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:16,540
different when I'm at home versus when I'm in a work environment.

457
00:35:16,540 --> 00:35:18,060
You have to walk slower,

458
00:35:18,060 --> 00:35:20,980
you have to move around and navigate.

459
00:35:20,980 --> 00:35:23,700
You have to behave in a way that,

460
00:35:23,700 --> 00:35:27,340
we have peers who are also the same age and of course,

461
00:35:27,340 --> 00:35:33,000
their lifestyles are fairly different and they're able to build it in a different way,

462
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,300
where there's a lot more time to focus and build your own space.

463
00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:41,940
When I say space, I mean actual physical spaces within your homes.

464
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,840
own space and when I say space like I mean actual like physical spaces within

465
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,560
your homes right because you know you can build it exactly how you want

466
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,640
because you're not sharing it with someone of another generation almost

467
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:53,200
like curated in a way and but when you're not when you don't have that

468
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:59,920
kind of a when you don't have that possibility it you know you're moving in

469
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,880
a certain way even your navigation around the house and you're a theater

470
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,300
certain way even your navigation around the house and you're a theater person so

471
00:36:03,300 --> 00:36:07,500
you'll understand that you know like you can't move furniture in a certain way

472
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:11,180
because it might affect an elder in the house or a child

473
00:36:11,180 --> 00:36:16,660
you know chairs are higher or lower made for them specifically so like just what

474
00:36:16,660 --> 00:36:20,260
is your like kind of movement around the house how does that affect like for

475
00:36:20,260 --> 00:36:24,060
example my mom is not letting me buy a cupboard for my electronic items

476
00:36:24,060 --> 00:36:26,640
because she's like oh my god there's so much stuff in the house and I don't want

477
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,260
Because she's like, oh my god, there's so much stuff in the house. I don't want another cupboard

478
00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:33,020
So like do you have instances like that which are kind of affecting the way, you know, you're thinking about your work

479
00:36:33,020 --> 00:36:36,480
But it's you're not able to push it out or vice versa that you know

480
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:42,080
You're not allowing them to do something just because you need to you know, like I don't know just like just some kind of like

481
00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:44,700
That's interesting. Um, well

482
00:36:45,140 --> 00:36:47,140
Well, thankfully I have my own room

483
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:55,400
Totally. I changed my room's furniture like desk and chairs, all the drawers

484
00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:02,600
A lot of furniture in my room, I just changed the whole thing like twice or three times

485
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,600
over the course of like almost like four years now

486
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,000
Yeah, and like my parents kind of like freak out and like they were like

487
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,800
Just leave it alone. Like why are you changing everything?

488
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:17,600
Like why are you changing everything? It's just like a whole, you know, like don't move it around

489
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:23,600
It's just you know, a lot of furniture. So and the desk is really really heavy, too. I wasn't listening to them

490
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:29,360
I was just like this is my room. I have to make it a certain way to you know, focus better

491
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,680
I've been protecting my room. I guess I

492
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,780
Wouldn't put my stuff like in the living room or other places

493
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,800
So yeah, I just like try to keep everything in my room

494
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,920
I don't have a lot of things that would harm my grandma

495
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:50,900
But sometimes she would just come into my room and like try to clean up and she would usually just like wipe the floor

496
00:37:51,180 --> 00:37:53,340
You know, and I'm just like don't do it

497
00:37:53,340 --> 00:37:59,120
I would just have to tell her stop doing it and it's just like you can't you can't stop her

498
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,400
It's just like in her, you know, she she has to

499
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,880
her, you know, she has to...

500
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,280
She just got to find something to do.

501
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,880
So that's why I'm trying to give her other tasks,

502
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:10,800
you know, instead of like cleaning.

503
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,760
Because I don't want her like constantly move around

504
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:19,000
and like keep cleaning my room or, you know, other rooms.

505
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,040
Oh, but sorry, I never asked.

506
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,080
Is it your mom's mom or your dad's mom?

507
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:24,640
Oh, it's my mom's mom.

508
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,200
Yeah, I live with her since I was a baby.

509
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:31,500
mom's mom. Yeah, I live with her since I was a baby, my grandma. So we're just like super close.

510
00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:37,100
I remember you had mentioned that in somewhere it was written that you know, okay, it's your mom who's the

511
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,920
primary carer, but I mean and you said that okay, I'm not even close to that kind of thing

512
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:48,360
but I think you still sense yourself as being an important person in the care of

513
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,800
care of a family member, in this case your grandmother.

514
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,800
Grandma management.

515
00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:01,300
So, I don't know, just like tell us about her day and how you sometimes maybe,

516
00:39:01,300 --> 00:39:04,100
I'm sure you're very consciously helping her in some ways.

517
00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:06,100
And maybe not so consciously.

518
00:39:06,100 --> 00:39:14,100
Yeah, my mom is a primary care and I try to help but not as much as her, obviously.

519
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:19,200
her obviously and I guess like part of me kind of feels bad about it and I try

520
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:24,600
to help more. I try to like balance it out when my mom has to go shopping or

521
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:30,840
you know go somewhere else then I would try to stay at home and working remotely

522
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:39,480
has been helping me very much. As long as I'm someone is at home my mom can kind

523
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:41,680
someone is at home, my mom can kind of go out and like, you know, do her business.

524
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:51,600
So yeah, I try to stay at home when I can. And when I have other plans, I

525
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:57,120
would sort of, you know, match with my mom. Like my grandma, she's usually fine. She

526
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:03,840
can like stay alone for like one or two hours. And as long as she has something

527
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,000
for like one or two hours.

528
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,400
And as long as she has something to do,

529
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,300
either that's a book or like a drawing or coloring,

530
00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:11,800
or sleeping, like it's okay.

531
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,200
But she often asks me, even when I'm at home,

532
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:16,200
she often asks me,

533
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,700
where's your mom?

534
00:40:17,700 --> 00:40:21,000
Almost like every 10 minutes when she has nothing to do.

535
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:21,800
And she just like,

536
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,600
she feels like she has to clean like all the rooms.

537
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,700
And she keeps asking me like,

538
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:27,800
where's your mom?

539
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,800
Like every 10 minutes or 20 minutes.

540
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,680
all the rooms and she keeps asking me like where's your mom like every 10

541
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:37,240
minutes or 20 minutes so try to give her a book or you know some something to do

542
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,960
Care Of is a spin-off of Computational Mama's live coding stream called Coding

543
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,420
with Friends. Coding with Friends casually and simply claims spaces for

544
00:40:48,420 --> 00:40:53,640
women creators. The series extends the idea of live coding as a form of

545
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:53,640
for women creators. The series extends the idea of live coding as a form of

546
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:58,200
camaraderie, friendship and care. But after two seasons of coding with friends

547
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,280
it seemed crucial to extend these conversations in a pre-recorded format

548
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,920
where the invited guests can talk more intimately about their work, their lives

549
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,400
and their ideas of care.