Mathematics of Care with Chanda Babel

In this episode of Care Of, Computational Mama talks to Chanda Babel about her personal journey and how she got interested in coding. They discuss her project on Warli paintings and the connection between craft and coding. They also explore the concept of collaboration and the role of care in their lives as mothers. The conversation touches on how technology influences parenting and the importance of learning from younger generations.

Although this episode is in Hindi, the transcripts are available in English on the podcast page: https://podcast.computationalmama.xyz/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chanda_db/

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This podcast is created and hosted by Computational Mama
Produced, edited by Beatnyk
Intro and outro pieces by Beatnyk

With emotional support from:
Suvani Suri
Agat Sharma
Nanditi Khilnani

Transcript

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Hi, welcome to Care Of. This is a short form podcast featuring conversations with creators,

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creative technologists about code, work and care. As I traverse ideas and realities of

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care in my life with first my grandparents and now my son, I recognize some shifts in

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the ways of thinking and working, differences in access available or afforded to me. And

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I can't help but wonder how care translates to others in the creator community. This podcast

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wonder how care translates to others in the creator community.

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This podcast is a simple attempt to open up, investigate,

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and document our practices from the lens of care.

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Mathematically, this care is directly

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proportional to time management.

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OK, so we are restarting.

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Let's see if this works.

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All right.

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I think you can hear me now, yes?

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Undoubtedly.

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Undoubtedly.

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How do you say that word?

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Undoubtedly, undoubtedly. How do you say that word?

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I need to share my parent relaxed with other creative coding.

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I will always be your number one hype woman.

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Okay, good, good. I'm not used to talking this much. I guess I'm out of shape.

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I do actually feel like, to me, the word care, I love that you're coming at this discussion with that word.

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And I think that's not the usual perspective that you will start with when it's, you know, in a sort of like tech or computer science or coding space.

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know, in a sort of like tech or computer science or coding

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space. So, so there's all these different spaces of care to

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navigate.

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Welcoming Chanda ji. Thank you. And

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this is our first and perhaps for this season only podcast

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episode, which will be face to face and I'm so happy and so

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be face to face and I'm so happy and so privileged that Chanda ji has agreed to this.

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She and I will both live in this very wonderful and amazing and stupendous and like and very

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very cool city called Udaipur which is very small and people know each other and it's

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like it's very sweet.

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Chanda ji has and like me has been born here and we both did our schooling here but I'm

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going to read out her bio.

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to read out her bio. Chanda Bavel pursued mathematics in her BSc, got a gold medal,

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very amazing, brilliant mathematician and also continued as an assistant professor in

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mathematics for five years. She then joined the family business and became a director

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of her company. She's been working on computers almost every day of her life with accounting

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and management and then I think wanted to pursue that a bit further and like be able

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I think wanted to pursue that a bit further and like be able to do coding.

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And she really took P5GS to a place that it had never been.

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Very beautiful, full of art, full of very intuitive and wonderful projects which she's been up to.

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Chanda ji, maybe you can tell us a bit about your personal journey a little more.

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Then we'll talk about why you got interested in coding.

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And then you can tell us about that Worli project.

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During the student life, I was a very good basketball player.

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During the student life, I was a very good basketball player.

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I represented Rajasthan State in 1975.

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Mathematics was my favorite subject.

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I did my masters in mathematics.

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And after that, when I was an assistant professor, I was attached to my subject.

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I was attached to my subject, but after that I switched to accounting.

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I have been operating computers since 1995.

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So, I have been acquainted with it.

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Nowadays, after the pandemic, our work has become a little less.

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So, that's why I diverted towards starting a new hobby.

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that I should start my next hobby.

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I tried in Python, self-learning, but couldn't do much.

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I did a little bit. In between, your workshop was offered,

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and I was ready to take that workshop.

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I enjoyed very much because you have designed the course very precisely

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and you have covered up all the basic functions and variables.

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basic functions and variables.

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So, I kept practicing with those functions and variables

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during the workshop and after that also

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I practiced those functions and

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I kept making new sketches and all that.

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In between, because my daughter is an artist

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and she is a designer,

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so all day she...

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Actually, I also did a post-graduation with her in designing.

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And she... Actually, I have also done a post-graduation with her in designing.

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Whatever she learns, she discusses it with me and explains it to me.

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She basically teaches me. Because designing has never been my field.

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But art and design, now I know where and what happens. That's all.

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So, I thought, can I convert some traditional art form into coding?

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I thought, can I convert some traditional art into coding?

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I did some research.

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Because we live in Udaipur,

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Pichwai is the most attractive.

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So I was trying to do something in Pichwai,

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but it was very difficult.

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Because what I learned from the functions or the workshop,

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I was not able to do that.

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Then I turned to the Warli paintings.

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Then I turned to the Warli paintings.

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Warli painting is basically a traditional art from north of Maharashtra and south of Gujarat.

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This covers the whole area.

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Some tribal areas are there.

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The people who make these traditional paintings, these Warli paintings,

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they paint these outside their huts.

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Gradually, these paintings started to come forward.

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Gradually, these paintings started to come forward.

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Basically, the tribal people make these paintings with mud and rice flour.

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They make these white paintings on the mud.

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And while doing that research, I saw that all their characters, animals, objects,

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they are all geometrical figures.

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There is a line, rectangle, triangle, circle.

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They are all geometrical figures.

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Line, rectangle, triangle, circle.

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Then I thought, I can do this.

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So I started this in the coding.

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In the paintings of Warli, I made the human character first.

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After that, gradually, whatever performances they make,

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I tried them first.

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I tried what they already do.

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I tried what they already do.

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Then I thought I should do something more.

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Then I tried a parachute.

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I remember that one. That was a really beautiful sketch.

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So I used a parachute to move the character.

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That was amazing.

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I felt good that I did something different.

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Chanda ji, you are also connected to crafts.

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You are also connected to crafts, maybe because of Aditi.

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Generally, I think we have it here, traditionally, especially in Rajasthan.

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We see so many craft revival things also here.

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But how did your perspective of Worli change when you started reading about it?

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Why did you feel that...

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Because many people see traditional painting and attach something new to it,

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or attach it like a parachute.

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They will take it as you did it wrong.

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But you adapted it beautifully.

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And I think it is very interesting.

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So maybe when you were studying and researching

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you came up with that thing.

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Can you tell us about that?

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Basically I wanted to do some sports activities

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with the character Warli.

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Some sports activities like cricket, football.

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I have to study more about sports, cricket, football.

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I will study more about P5JS.

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Then only I will be able to do it.

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While doing that, I thought that I had made a kite.

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And I was trying to move it.

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Then I thought that I should make a parachute.

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I thought, let's make a parachute.

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So I made a parachute.

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Because it's the same thing,

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I made an ellipse,

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I made a circle,

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and I squared it,

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and I started it.

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Then I thought,

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I can make the character

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hold on to it.

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And then I made the movement,

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the animation.

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So I enjoyed it very much.

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I really liked it.

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So I enjoyed very much.

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activities. But this has become different.

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No one has told me anything yet.

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No, no, I wanted to know that they are also depicting things around them.

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And we are in an urban setting, so for us, the parachute has become normal.

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So I wanted to know that, were you feeling that it is very different?

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I will try something else, something different.

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I will try something else, something different,

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something that they have not done in the Wiley paintings.

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I have not seen anyone in traditional art,

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actually, in coding. I have done a lot of research.

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But traditional art is not converting anyone into coding.

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So, doing this, doing something different,

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naturally you feel one-up, right? It feels good.

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Yes, definitely.

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And you are from the sports and competitive field,

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so you also understand that.

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And you are from the sports and competitive field, so you also understand that.

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That's very nice.

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So, in that context, have you ever thought of doing textile?

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Are you planning to do?

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Or is it not so interesting to you?

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No, not now.

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Actually, I still have a lot to learn in this.

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Because in my schedules, I try to do whatever I get the time and the time.

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I try to learn something in this.

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I try to learn something from this.

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I have learned only 1% of it.

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It's a long way to go.

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Yeah, for all of us.

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So, I was thinking that you gave a good example of Worli.

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Of course, the images are really brilliant.

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But tell us maybe a little bit more.

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Like you are trying some other sketches.

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I know you were telling Aditi and you are also trying to do some projects together.

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projects are trying to do together. And generally, because my maths is very bad, I wanted to know

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how you think mathematically because we lack that ability, Aditi and I. So like how does

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it happen? How do you think? I know that you will say that it happens, but still.

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Basic shapes like square, cube, pentagon, hexagon, octagon, you have to calculate the

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length of the side and angle of the side.

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Angle between the sides.

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So, that concept is clear because of the math.

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I tell them how to set it.

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Basically, it comes down to how you set the angles.

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That's how it all gets set.

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There are some structures that I try to make.

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Right now, we are working on a game structure.

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It's a little different.

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Aditi can tell you the concept of the game.

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My job is to make the rules of the game.

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How to play it.

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That's what we are doing.

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That's what we are doing.

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It's like a family game design studio.

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I think you guys are calling it Babblefish, right?

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Is that the... Babblefish, ok.

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So, ok, so that's something to look forward to.

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So, my question was that you have started exploring in 3D,

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WebGL, etc. in P5.

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In that, of course, P5 WebGL is a little limited.

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P5 WebGL is a little limited. But still you have figured out the forms beautifully.

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So if you could tell us about the process, it's something very inspirational I feel people can learn from.

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Even now, because in 3D you can explore so much. But because the functions I have learnt are very limited,

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So I'm trying to make the character of Warli in 3D.

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So I changed the triangles in the cone, the circle in the sphere,

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the lines in the cuboid, the rectangles in the cuboid.

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So it worked.

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Basically, you should be clear about the concept of how to see things in 2D in 3D.

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So you can add that function or that variable.

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3D, how will you see it? So you can add that function or that variable.

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I think now we will see your dice generator in P5.

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I am sure you must be thinking, not just a cube dice.

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No, not a cube dice.

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Just a different kind of dice. I mean, I have only seen some photos.

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Like in board games. So that I am looking forward to.

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In all the interviews I have taken, you hold the most experience of life.

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you hold the most experience of life.

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What was your trajectory?

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Where does care fit in it?

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How do you see these practices that you are doing?

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How do they fit into your idea of care?

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We will just have a free conversation about this.

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For me, care is just to give love, affection and time

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to the person you want to care.

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and time to the person you want to care.

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Or work-wise, you have to again give the time.

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So mathematically, this care is directly proportional to time management.

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Wonderful!

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Time management is the key, basically.

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So how much you give to your kids, how much you give to your work,

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how much you give to your home.

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And the biggest thing is what things you can offload.

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And the biggest thing is what you can offlet.

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If you don't want to offlet anyone for any activity of the child,

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then you have to give the time to your kid.

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So for the other activity, you hire someone else or set someone else to perform that activity.

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So that's all.

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That's so beautiful.

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I can't ask more.

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That's all. That's so beautiful. I can't ask more.

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Right now, my mom and I are living together, like you and Aditi.

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This idea that yesterday Aditi told me a very interesting thing that

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I was always doing something with my mom but I never thought of it as a collaboration.

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But now I can see that it is a collaboration.

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and I think I can't collaborate with my mom at least in work but in life of course we are collaborating

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and I think that's something very interesting because we never think about our life like our personal lives

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as something where we are collaborating

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and you are not doing this collaboration only with Aditi, you are doing it with Arvind Ji

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and of course you must have some equation with your son although he is not living here

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equation with your son although he is not living here.

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So let us just open it.

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Tell me a little bit about it.

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It's a difficult task. Truly.

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Because you collaborate with your husband

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and work with him. So you have to

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act like a boss.

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Because

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he is the higher authority.

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And you are working with him

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so you have to work accordingly.

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You cannot put

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any idea in between.

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This is in the business that you have.

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But this is in the business that you have.

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Yes, yes.

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And those discussions, because basically you also have a think process, he also had.

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So, what happens in that is that sometimes hot discussions also happen in discussions,

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but collaboration happens.

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With daughter, now I have to consider her higher authority, and I can't.

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I can't because the subject knowledge she has,

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or the depth of knowledge she has, is not mine.

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So whatever she says, I have to say yes ma'am.

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And if she is asking for advice,

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that I should give it from my side,

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then I give my point of view.

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In this context, I would like to ask,

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In this context, I would like to ask you, because I am a very junior mother and you are a very senior mother.

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So, what you said that sometimes you have to listen to the other person and allow them.

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So, when they were young, they used to listen to you.

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So, can you just, I don't know, tell me as a mom to mom, what was that trajectory like?

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How does it feel to like suddenly let them,

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you give them that agency,

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that now you do it, now you understand, you think.

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So tell me a little about that, because I don't know anything about it.

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No, like the independence of the children is increasing,

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like their knowledge is increasing.

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And the biggest thing is that the changes that are coming now,

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in the children, I mean even in our generation and your generation,

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Even in our generation and your generation,

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the technologies you are using,

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naturally we are not that fast.

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So, actually whenever my son comes,

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he teaches me one thing,

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that now you do this,

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you can do it this way,

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you can do it this way.

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Aditi is teaching me daily.

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Actually, in designing and in art,

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We have the knowledge of designing and art and craft.

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Both of us have it.

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My husband and I have it because of Aditi.

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She makes us touch a new topic every day.

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She tells us what's going on.

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Now we are learning from the kids.

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In the beginning, we taught them.

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But after we got to a stage,

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and now because technology is changing so fast,

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we are not able to adapt as fast as we used to.

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fast change is happening. We are not able to adapt as fast as they are. So naturally,

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we are learning from them. So that should happen. It should happen in the parents. Only

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then will there be a balance. You cannot discard it. You cannot discard any knowledge.

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Care Of is a spin-off of Computational Mama's live coding stream called Coding with Friends.

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off of Computational Mama's live coding stream called Coding with Friends.

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Coding with Friends casually and simply claims spaces for women creators.

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The series extends the idea of live coding as a form of camaraderie, friendship and care.

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But after two seasons of Coding with Friends, it seemed crucial to extend these conversations

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in a pre-recorded format where the invited guests can talk more intimately about their

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work, their lives and their ideas of care.

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more intimately about their work, their lives and their ideas of care.