Pride Stories: The Podcast

Creating Safe Spaces: Sutton's Story

• Max Kringen and Tellwell Story Co. • Season 2 • Episode 6

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Join Sutton on his transformative journey from Edina to diverse and inclusive communities. 🌍✨ In this episode, Sutton shares how coming out at 18 on platforms like Facebook and Xanga led to finding his supportive tribe. Hear about his educational path at NYU, entrepreneurial ventures, and building LGBTQ+ safe spaces in small towns. Discover the essence of collaboration, allyship, and the little acts that make a big difference.

Tune in now on Spotify and YouTube to be hear Sutton's heartfelt story of resilience and community-building:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YTRXXgbOlk

Are you ready to share your Pride Story?  Visit https://wetellwell.com/pride-stories-podcast to learn more.

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Speaker 1:

going to your point of. You know that you have to meet me where I am. That's not building a bridge, that's demanding the bridge be built to you. And so the you know the act of inclusion and justice. It's a two-way street where both you know the people in charge and the people with power have to engage, but so do the you know the other, the people who are underneath, or you know the oppressed. It is a collaborative effort and it only is going to be successful if all parties are invested in it.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to Pride Stories, the podcast, where we celebrate the entire spectrum of experiences that make up the LGBTQ plus community. I'm your host, max Kringen from Tell All Story Cohen Studio On this podcast. We're committed to creating a safe, supportive and inspiring space for our guests and listeners alike, so join us as we explore the heartwarming, sometimes painful and always inspired stories that make us who we are. Hi Sutton, and welcome to Pride Stories the podcast. We're really excited to have you here. How are you feeling about coming on?

Speaker 1:

I'm excited to be here. I really appreciate the opportunity to come and talk, and the fact that some people might be interested in the story that I get to tell is humbling and fascinating at the same time.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's awesome. Sutton for people that don't know you yet, who is Sutton Sure?

Speaker 1:

Well, where to begin? The beginning, of course, the beginning of yeah, no. So I guess where do we usually start? We start by talking about our jobs, right? So we'll start there.

Speaker 1:

I'm an extension educator with Minnesota, 4-h by day, so technically work with the University of Minnesota and a professor is, you know, attached to my title, but kind of the crux of my work is working with youth leadership, and so there are 4-H programs across the northwest part of Minnesota and I work with the 21 different local programs that we have and supporting strong youth leadership programs, helping youth develop those skills and get engaged in their communities and those who want to make a difference in their communities, in the neighborhoods, wherever it might be, helping them along, taking, taking the spark that they have and fan it into the flame so they can make the difference in the world by night. I am a trivia writer, I run my own trivia business, I host Trivia Weekly and yeah, so it's a full slate, kind of like a Clark Kent Superman. Very different things, but getting the job done in both of them.

Speaker 2:

I love that. That is very different. But what I love about both of them and we're going to talk about this, I think, kind of throughout today's podcast is really around the goal being developing community, absolutely. Yep, where did that start Like? Take us back. Who is Baby Sutton?

Speaker 1:

Who is Baby Sutton? Okay, so I've always had a little bit of like an entrepreneurial side to me. Um, I was just cleaning out stuff the other day and pulled out this, this magic kit that my mom got me when I was in first grade, I think. So you know, the little magician's hat and the wand and the you know handkerchiefs and the fake egg and all those things?

Speaker 2:

Did it have like a little blue box that was like your stage?

Speaker 1:

It had something similar, yeah, yeah. And then my mom was, of course, over the top and customized it, and so the amazing Sutton was printed across the front of the box. So yeah, it was so much fun, but I thought it. You know, kids do lemonade stands right, or just standing in the corner. My entrepreneurial self decided I'm not, no, no, no, we're going to, we're going to both the top I'm, I'm putting on a sidewalk magic show. And so that was my summer of first grade into second grade was putting on magic shows on the sidewalk. That was, that was my lemonade stand. And so, you know, I kind of always had this entrepreneurial let's do something different, and it was always fun to bring people together Fast forward.

Speaker 1:

I went into education. I was a teacher for eight years, taught music, which is its own fun atmosphere. You definitely create community in music classrooms band, choir, orchestra You're working as a unified body of people to create something wonderful, create something wonderful. And so, working in those classrooms it was, uh, I, I. What I always told the students there was. You know, they can give me things all they want, but they're the ones who are making the music right. They're the ones I'm just wave my arms, I'll give them the music, I'll wave my arms. They're the ones making the actual product. So, you know, celebrating their efforts, celebrating their accomplishments and what they do individually and collectively, I've always had kind of a focus on, you know, yeah, the community and development, but individual development too. So, you know, making sure that people have the pathways to grow and you know better themselves, and you know, if they don't know where they're going, let's, let's try a few different things and let's see what sparks and what we can, you know, harness and move forward with.

Speaker 1:

So the trivia was one of those things that came out of, you know, just kind of starting something new. I lived in Thief River for a year and there's not a whole lot going on after hours and plenty of people in town I mean, there's 8,000, 9,000 people who live in Thief River Falls, but there's just really nothing that happens. And I am a huge trivia fan already. I was knowledgeable and quizble in high school and did it in college a little bit too, and had found my own kind of trivia spots that I'd played wherever I'd lived and moved to. And it doesn't exist in Thief River Falls. And I said, well, let's start it, let's make it happen and found a local spot that wanted to also get something going and created a trivia company. It's been six years almost, so, yeah, it's creating community wherever.

Speaker 2:

I go kind of for selfish reasons, but also wanting to see, you know, see people thrive. Talk about those selfish reasons a little bit. Why and it's so funny that as you talk about creating community that the word selfish would even like approach your vocabulary but like, why selfish?

Speaker 1:

I think, well, there's a little bit of like a well, to use trivia as an example, I wanted to do trivia, I wanted to go play trivia and there wasn't one there, so creating it was a little bit selfish on my part. But you know, I think in any time where, where you're out there trying to do something, um, for others, there's, uh, maybe selfish has some some bad connotations to it, but uh, there's that altruism of doing things for others that benefit you too. So I mean, it's, it's kind of trying I'm struggling for the right metaphor in my brain right now but thinking, you know, like, um, a rising tide raises all ships. Um, if you're the one pouring the water, let's say, in the bathtub or whatever you're, still you know you're raising your own ship as well as everyone else's. So there's that little bit of selfishness that goes into. You know, I want to feel it too. I want to benefit from this as well, and it's it's really, though, a gift to be able to do that for others, and you know the collective benefits.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I appreciate that and you're right. It is that idea of rising tide lifts all boats. You know, what's funny is I actually stopped using the first half of that and I'm just like, uh, all boats rise and so I I, as you were saying that, I was like what the hell is the first part of that? So I feel like we kind of skipped over a couple of like instrumental groups of years which was like high school and college, and I guess I don't know your coming out story. Did that happen in that time?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. So I came out when I was 18. It was right after high school and and, uh, you know the proverbial you go to go to your first year of college and you come back for Thanksgiving or Christmas break and you tell your family all about it. So I started coming out right after high school graduation and I started with you know, close friends first and gradually going outwards and back in high school we didn't really have social media yet. Facebook had just launched, and so I remember that that year I signed up for Facebook and you get to indicate like interested in men, women, both, none, and, and so I got to put it on there. That felt like a bold step of interested in men. Uh, and the other thing in high school, that without Facebook or anything like that, our our main like social media. Then, if you can call it that was zenga zenga zenga blog.

Speaker 2:

Where did you grow up, edina? You grew up in edina.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I'm from a tiny town in southwest north, southeast north dakota okay so like the fact that we both had zenga makes me feel very special right it's, no one knows about it and I mean it was here for a hot minute and then I have no idea where it is now. But I'd love to go back and get to it Cause, um, I distinctly remember, kind of like my broader coming out story was a post that I put on Zynga. So after I told close friends, I put it up there to like get it out to everybody. I remember exactly it was July 6th, 2005 is when. When I posted it, and I remember you know the next morning being what the hell did I do? And thank god, this is, this is awful. The. The next day was when the london um subway bombings happened. So I thought, oh, okay, okay, there's this much bigger news story. No one cares. They totally ignore my my bloggers, didn't they?

Speaker 1:

oh yeah, yeah, there were people who cared, and it was the people that I wanted to care too, and so reaching out like support and and yeah so, for people that don't know, zenga is like a blogging platform.

Speaker 2:

it was like a cross between myspace and what would be like facebook notes of today. We're like it. It was just blogging, but there were the things that people would put on there. I got into so much trouble for the things that we put on zenga and, like my classmates, we got into so much trouble because, like a party, we would talk about it. It's like a public blogging platform and we're just like saying like, oh, so-and-so got drunk the other day. Yeah, stupid, so I'm glad you used your platform for good. I hope so.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what was the response then In general, I mean I either got no response or positive response. So I mean I remember friends coming up to me afterwards who I didn't talk to directly and they were like I had no idea and we're here for you, like we support you and you're no different than you were before. It's like it was incredible the support that I got from it and it was either that or just kind of indifference or not knowing. But also I wasn't too worried.

Speaker 2:

You're kind of talking about this, but so you really, before you were ever purposefully creating communities around you, you were kind of gathering up those people who were Sutton fans to begin with, Kind of yeah, what do you think started that?

Speaker 1:

Oh, gosh, gosh, I don't know because I'm an introvert I am, you know let's do small groups and we're like one-on-one settings. I'm not really a fan of like getting the whole entourage together, but at the same time I don't mind being in front of a group of people. I mean, teaching was a great example of you know you're on stage 100% of the time when you're leading the classroom. Example of um, you know you're on stage 100 of the time when you're leading the classroom. But yeah, I, I, I really don't know that the other than it's always felt like a natural, a natural thing to get people together and to make better.

Speaker 2:

I love that now you had talked about a little bit, as we were talking earlier, as we're going back and forth, um about your shift from living in Edina, which is not a small town, to going to school, moving to New York for a while and then coming all the way back. Can you talk us through that journey?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I mean, edina is where I grew up and I definitely have a spot in my heart for Edina, but I know that many people don't. It has a reputation. You know the Silver Spin community. Every Day I Need Attention. You know all the things about Edina are. You know they're not founded out of nothing. It's a very.

Speaker 1:

Growing up there we knew it was the bubble community. We call it the bubble, knowing that you know the outside world really doesn't exist. We, you at the bubble, knowing that the outside world really doesn't exist. We all go to the same high school, we all go to the competing set of churches and everyone kind of has the same general trajectory in life Not quite the cookie cutter houses and cookie cutter cars, but pretty darn close. So, living in Edina, growing up in Edina, it's very much the opposite of diversity and in high school, thinking back, I was always drawn to the different.

Speaker 1:

I remember the first time we had a student move in third grade. Second grade, she was from Peru and had just moved with her family to the Twin Cities and settled in Edina and she spoke, you know, a little bit of English and mostly Spanish, and I thought it was the coolest thing to have someone like that A few years later, meeting someone who a Pakistani family, and being really intrigued because it was Ramadan when I met them and being really intrigued like, why do you fast? But it was always curiosity and really being fascinated by, okay, there are different ways of living and being out there and so any time it's very obvious that there wasn't that and I mean there's bits and pieces, but certainly back then not to the level that there is now. But I always knew that I wanted to go somewhere different, somewhere much more diverse, and you can't get more diverse than New York City. So I went to college at New York University, did my undergrad there, lived in Manhattan, did a semester abroad in the Czech Republic yeah, being able to walk down a block and hear 15 different languages in the span of 30 seconds is incredible. When I student taught, one of the classrooms that I had was a first grade room of 29 kids and representing 27 different nationalities 27 different nationalities. You know it was really really cool and really different to see that and experience that and kind of, like you mentioned, I kind of left New York and came back to Minnesota.

Speaker 1:

I knew I wanted to come back and I knew I wanted to be in a different part of the state though, to again experience a different culture, so I joke that I moved from a building of 300 people to a town of 300 people. I went from Manhattan to Hackensack, minnesota, and lived there and counted in the 2010 census as one of the 330 people in town, on the sign, you know, driving into town. But it was the culture shift that I wanted to experience and to see, and it's that just constant craving for, or constant curiosity, wanting to see and learn, and just kind of experience you know what life is like in various parts of the world and, yeah, just really really getting a chance to take it in.

Speaker 2:

So I think one of the common assumptions is that when you go from a New York City very welcoming, very inclusive, lgbtq+, the entire community I'm not always going to say the friendliest right, but friendly to that community absolutely To a small town of 300 people, what was the reception? What was the reception of Sutton?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So when I moved back I I've never maybe maybe take a step back to like grounding philosophy or just kind of general philosophy with with being out and and and being gay in in whatever community I'm in, I never overtly announce but I never hide that's. It's, that's just kind of the, the mentality that I've taken with it. So I I am, and if you want to talk to me about it, great, let's talk. If you don't want to talk to me about it, that's fine too, but I am, so I'm not super overt broadcasting but also not hiding it. So when I moved into Hackensack, of course didn't know a single person in town, didn't really know anybody in the area. Closest friend I think I had was an hour away up by Bemidji from Hackensack, but even there it was finding the different elements of community. So growing up in Edina we had a regular kind of church tradition in the family and so I found a church in Hackensack that was part of what I knew to be an accepting congregation. So the ELCA was at the time had gone through the schism and the split and the congregation that was there was part of the, let's say, the air quote good, the good Lutherans. So found the community there and got to know people through the church and the friendliest people too who are. When you're driving down the street you better stop in and we'll give you a slice of pie to take home with you that kind of people. So there's elements of community that can be found everywhere, and while there were there's kind of the what's the right word? Oblique references to homophobia and discrimination At least what I found there is it had not really been in front of many of the people that I'd interacted at least that I interacted with when they realized that I was gay. It was kind of the first real, living, breathing person standing in front of them that they had already had interaction with. I never got a negative response and you know, if there was some negative thought on their part, they did a fantastic job of hiding it. It was for many of them, you know, kind of a new perspective that they I don't think had the opportunity to take in before. And so thank you to another part too.

Speaker 1:

Um I, there were other queer people in the community. My, my neighbor was a um, a lesbian, and as far as I knew she was out and and she never had a partner or domestic partner with her or any any kind of relationship that I knew of. But she was there and was part of the community and was, as far as I know, accepted and loved by the people. She was one of the three bartenders at the one bar in town, so of course she's going to be liked or they're not going to get served. And then there's another gay couple in town that they were known and respected. One of them had run for city council and I think had served for a term or two and yeah, so different, total different lifestyle and total different community, just broadly speaking, than comparing New York to Hackensack, but also different, or I should say similar ways of just being being able to be.

Speaker 2:

It's interesting because I think the one thing that we've talked a lot about on this podcast is I'm going to call it this idea of othering Right, and I think one thing that it sounds like you've been able to do during your, during your various moves your move from New York to Hackensack was not as much focusing on what makes you different or what makes them different, but really like what brings you together.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, does that feel accurate? Yeah, I mean, othering is a it's a really interesting term to kind of bring into that and and I would say you know, I think again I'm live live stream thinking on it right now is just kind of uh, you know, when you're, when I've interacted with people, it's always been, yeah, that finding the common ground and finding the common connection or finding the opportunities to build, you know, the bridge between almost running away from othering.

Speaker 2:

You know actively, almost without calling it out necessarily, you know, I think, one thing that people in the LGBTQ community have done a lot of work in identifying who they are right, being comfortable with themselves. But I think in some ways it's also given us this permission to then say you have to meet us where we are not, we have to meet you where you are as well, but like, like, in order to create a community, in order to create a relationship, there has to be like give and take on both ends. It can't just be like you have to accept us for you know, just point blank, and we have to accept you point blank, like. There has to be that middle ground, and I think that that's sometimes what's missing in our community a little bit. But I'd be curious to your thoughts.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. So you are bringing me right back to that conference and, like what was said there, it was this great session on allyship and and taking allyship to the next level, the idea that you know, being an ally is like wearing a t-shirt that you can take off at the end of the day. And she suggested the new word, accomplice. Because you know, being an accomplice is, it implies some, some crime. You know, right, um, be gay, do crime, uh, but uh, it's, it really is being resistant to those systems and the systems of oppression, standing up and maybe committing the foul intentionally, the good trouble to make a difference. And accomplished, she said, was like getting a tattoo you can't take it off. You can cover it up as much as you want, but you really can't take it off.

Speaker 1:

So she was advocating you know, be an accomplice. And she also going to your point of you know that you have to meet me where I am. That's not building a bridge, that's demanding, that's demanding the bridge be built to you. And so the. You know the act of inclusion and justice. It's a two-way street where both you know the people in charge and the people with power have to engage, but so do the.

Speaker 2:

You know the other, the people who are underneath, or you know the oppressed it is a collaborative effort and it only is going to be successful if all parties are invested in it. Oh man, you can. You know, I would be surprised if you went to a Lutheran church feels feels more like Baptist right With like a good amen. So, sutton, we have been talking for like 20 minutes so far, just in an intro. A fantastic conversation so far. But to get to the podcast itself, what is your pride story?

Speaker 1:

Give me a little more prompting there. What direction should I go?

Speaker 2:

You know, we've had people kind of go in all kinds of different directions. Some people have been really proud of themselves for the courage to come out. It sounds like some of your pride story comes from maybe less about like you, but more around the communities that you've built, the ability to create communities in each place that you've gone. So it's really like maybe I'll ask you in a slightly different way Sure, what are you proud of?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay, gosh, it's a really okay. I'm just taking a metaphor or philosophical step back for a second. How often do we ask each other what are you proud of? And getting a chance to let people share right? Not nearly often enough. So if you're listening, I advocate find the next person that you know and ask them what they're proud of, what they're proud of today, what they're proud of in their lifetime. You know any. All of the above just advocating for doing that, and so maybe that goes to you know, what I'm proud of is. I guess I'm a little bit assuming that things have happened.

Speaker 1:

My goal is kind of didn't share in my introduction. I'm a big camp person. Went to summer camp, worked at a summer camp. The whole the conference I was at last week was all about summer camps and it's incredible being around thousands of people who love summer camp. Camp people are great. So when I think about you know the camping philosophy when you're out in the trail, it's leave things better than you found them, leave no trace, leave things better than you found them, and that's kind of the thing that I hope to be proud of and I feel proud of. I suppose I'd have to go back and revisit all the places that I've been before, but I want to leave things better than I found them and so you know, thinking back through the communities that I've been to, so kind of the story was Hackensack I moved to Bemidji after that and find people and get to know some amazing people and amazing organizations and groups that are doing things.

Speaker 1:

I'm proud of the people that I met there. I'm proud of the people that I was able to work with and what they were able to do and accomplish. My roommate there was one of the TV reporters with the local TV station and so, through her, getting to meet a whole bunch of fantastic and awesome people. The first gay couple to get married on the Leech Lake tribe, sanctioned by the tribe. I got to play at a gay wedding, one of the first ones. That was after the law was repealed, being able to be a part of that movement in Bemidji.

Speaker 1:

The Vote no campaign happened while I was there too, and I'm proud of the community that we built in town and you know the work that we were able to accomplish and getting Bemidji to be this, this one spot of. You know, whatever the colors were let's say green was Vote no, this one dot of green and a sea of red of the vote. Yes, people across the rest of the area but making a difference there and I'm proud of, in my mind, it's better than I left it. You know, thief River Falls.

Speaker 1:

I'm proud of the trivia community that I left behind, so I started it in 2018. When I moved away, when I moved to Fargo-Moorhead in 2019, there was a group there that said, yeah, let's keep it up. And so they kept doing trivia and they're still hosting and I still stay in touch with them and you know, it's just fun to hear that they're carrying on kind of the legacy. Yeah, I'm proud of the way that I've left things better than I found them and you know hope that. You know the communities that have been built behind, kind of in the wake of the things that I've done, sustain, live on, continue.

Speaker 2:

That's incredible. I appreciate that so much. The one thing that we haven't talked about yet, as we're talking about leaving things better than you found them, is the LGBTQ plus inclusion night that you started here in Fargo, moorhead yeah, can you talk about that a little bit Sure, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So it came out of this, I guess, communities that are running through line here. It came out of this sense of there wasn't something here or there really wasn't anything like it here. You know, I've lived in the Fargo-Moorhead area for five years now and the whole time that I've been here there's not a gay club, there's not a gay bar, there is not a nightlife space that is dedicated to the queer community. And so about a year and a half ago it was, you know, really having had a fantastic summer of getting to know people and going down to Pride in the cities and Pride here in Fargo, moorhead, you know, just craving more like craving that sense of community. Here I started looking into what are the things I could do, what are the ways I can create a space in this community. I want it. So back to the rising title of Cellboats and I get to be the one pouring the water in the bathtub and lifting everything. Let's do it, let's create it. So I knew a few people in kind of key positions, so staff at Front Street were able to connect me to a DJ and people who found out about it through friends or coworkers and reach out to me directly hey, how can I support this? How can I help you? How can I make this successful?

Speaker 1:

We started the LGBTQ plus inclusion nights. The first one was almost a year ago. Exactly it was back in March 23. We had a monthly from March until July, took August off because of pride that month and then it's kind of been in a holding pattern to wait and see what happens next. Front Street was a great venue for us to be in, but we're looking at moving it out to different parts of the FM area.

Speaker 1:

You know, one of the things with Inclusion Night, one of the philosophies is, you know, we want to have a space that's safe for the members of the LGBTQ plus community but also want to make it accessible too. So having every month at Front Street was a great way to get started and get that community built. And you know it's fun to see people who traveled from all over. We had Detroit Lakes to Jamestown. We had Grand Forks. We had someone who visited from the cities, who heard about it and decided to pop in. They didn't travel for it explicitly but, you know, still came in and supported it, but wanting to move around the area too, not just to make it more accessible but also highlight spaces that are queer safe, and so we'll be, hopefully this summer, bringing it back and moving it around the metro area to different bars and different establishments that are going to be queer safe spaces and spaces that we can trust, until we get those dedicated gay bar or gay space or queer space here in the Fargo Market area that's so great.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate you doing that as well. I think what is so fun to hear is other people that are creating spaces for our LGBTQIA+ brothers, sisters and others, right, yeah, it's really great because I know as we started Pride Stories, we were a little nervous as to what was going to be the turnout, what was going to be the feedback that we were getting, and what is fascinating is, for every one naysayer, there have been 30, 40, 50 plus people that have appreciated it. Have you gotten to experience the same thing with the inclusion nights?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's always so. At each of the inclusion nights I made it a point to try and talk to everybody. I wasn't always successful, but try to make contact with everyone, thank them for being there, get a little bit of the story and for the vast majority, it was just overwhelming appreciation for having that space to go to, especially for those people who are traveling. For, you know, a little ways away, you know, even even Detroit lakes there's 45 minutes down the road. But still, making that commitment, driving into town, hanging out for two hours and then driving home afterwards for some of them that was their one and only safe space that they went to and to be able to provide that was extremely humbling and also kind of igniting another spark, like, okay, we have to keep this going, we have to keep creating spaces like this and I'm thrilled that, you know, kind of a testament to that appreciation for having space, there's more things that are happening now, there's more spaces being created.

Speaker 1:

So you know, like the pride stories that you're doing here, um, and getting the chance to highlight you know, the stories that um, sometimes go untold or and need to be celebrated. I think you know our, our DJ, one of the DJs that we brought in um had a few events at Parachigo, uh, and also had a last last, the Pride Disco in the aquarium. Events like that, the Y2 Club events that have been happening for the past few months, those just continue to kind of spiral out and spread out and create more opportunities or more safe spaces for the LGBTQ plus community and I hope that those just kind of it continues, the domino effect continues and we get more opportunities like this man.

Speaker 2:

I think something that like sparked for me I think it was this last pride was for a minute. There were folks like so upset that there were like non-sanctioned fm pride events that were happening and and in my mind at first I was like, yeah, these need to be, and then I was like, wait a second, when we go to twin cities pride.

Speaker 2:

I actually don't know that I've ever seen like a program for twin cities pride, because all the events that we go to are all like the non-sanctioned events I mean we'll go to pride in the park and we'll do some of those types of things, but like, but this is like a really great thing, yeah, that like there are so many more events that are happening and and maybe one of our goals for this year should be almost like an unofficial plus official pride guide, so that way we can get some of those events and and maybe lgbtq inclusion night will be a part of that this year. Maybe that would be really fun. Maybe we should do a little happy hour. We can do mocktails, we can do cocktails, we can do that would. Maybe that would be really fun. Maybe we should do a little happy hour. We can do mocktails, we can do cocktails, we can do that would be amazing.

Speaker 1:

That would be great. Okay, sounds like a party Committed right now.

Speaker 2:

I mean, you call yourself an introvert, which I appreciate and I know we don't like labels, but for people who are also maybe introverted, maybe don't know the next right step to start to build the community that they want to be a part of, what advice do you have for those folks?

Speaker 1:

In many cases you're not alone, even if you feel like you are. There's someone else out there who is experiencing that or has that same want or same desire, and it's just finding the way to make that connection. Go to the spaces that you think those people might be, where those people might be. You know, if there's a particular coffee shop that really strikes your fancy, go hang out at that coffee shop. Maybe start talking to some of the people around there. Just listen in on conversations. Sometimes Sounds a little bit creepy advice, but listening in on conversations you might get a chance to jump in and say, hey, my name is so-and-so and that sounds like a really fantastic thing. Let's do it. Just finding ways to make those connections, going to the spaces that you think you would be comfortable in and that they would be people who have the similar interests, kind of going back to your unsanctioned pride events and all that. It's a sign of health, really, of the initiatives, right, that there are so many different things that are popping up, and also Inclusion Night was meant to be a different way of connecting. So there are, you know, a handful of different drag shows that happen on a regular basis around town, which are wonderful and great opportunities for the queer community to gather and get representation, be seen, but it's not everyone's cup of tea, right? So it's not what everyone wants to do. But it's not everyone's cup of tea, right? So it's not what everyone wants to do. It's not. You know, for some people, drag shows are just they're uncomfortable, and it has nothing to do with the content of the show, it's just that's not the space that they want to be in. And so the thing with Inclusion Night was creating a different alternative to that. So not drawing away from the drag show crowd we didn't, we never scheduled against but providing a different outlet, a different way to connect. And so, with those different unsanctioned events for Pride and again air quotes around the unsanctioned, those are just alternative ways for the queer community to connect and find being and find belonging. So I think I mean, yeah, initial response would be, yeah, how dare they create their own thing? But no, that's the wrong response. It's a good thing that there's so many different opportunities that people are taking the initiative to create.

Speaker 1:

So, circling all the way back to your question about how can people get involved, there's this great study in followership and there's a fantastic TED Talk video if anyone wants to go look it up. It's like three minutes long on followership, and it's this one guy dancing in a music festival. He's just dancing crazy. He's got a shirt off, just kind of doing all sorts of wacky, ridiculous movements and no one else is around him and all of a sudden you know the first person to stand up and start dancing with him, like alongside, doing just as weird ridiculous movements and dancing. You can't even hear what music they're dancing to, but I don't know if it makes a difference when you're watching the video clip to it, but that first person there is the one who made the difference. So the one guy who's dancing, of course, is the one who started it, but it's the first person to step up and follow along with that who really started.

Speaker 1:

It, started the movement and you know the next few people jump in and next few, and all of a sudden you got 20 people dancing. Then you get a whole other group that jumps in and becomes 40. And then you get the rest of the hillside just jumps in and it becomes just this massive group of people dancing. So the lesson being if there's something that you see that is happening, that you like and you want to support, do it. Be the first follower. It does take courage to take on that role, but if you see someone doing something good, be a follower. Go, jump in, support them, be a part of it.

Speaker 2:

That's incredible advice. I think that's great. I have two final questions for you. Okay, one as a trivia host what is your favorite piece of LGBTQ+ alphabet mafia, as I like to call them? What's your favorite piece of alphabet mafia trivia? Oh, wow. And if you don't have any, it just won't make it into the show.

Speaker 1:

So Harvey Milk, the first openly gay elected official across the country, san Francisco City Council. You know he was assassinated in the trial, for I forget the guy's name, dan, something Not worth remembering. Not worth remembering, but the trivia about that is so his lawyers during the trial brought up the Twinkie defense. They blamed the assassination on this guy eating too many Twinkies. What was the defense?

Speaker 2:

That his mind had been altered by having so much sugary processed food. Yeah, all right. Well, what a defense. Yeah, it didn't work right, did not? Okay, good, good, good, good. Well, I was going to say if that is a defense for anything, I know I've had one or eight too many Twinkies in my day, so I can use that.

Speaker 1:

Well, you can now say the court's clear that it's not altered your mind at all.

Speaker 2:

Dang it, unless you want to claim that you know your very first magic box, magic or magic show that your mom supported through high school, through college, and your experiences from Hackensack to Fargo, moorhead. As you think back through your entire journey, what?

Speaker 1:

are you grateful for? I think I'm grateful for the opportunity to be around people who really care and that care shows in so many different ways. And when I say people, it's both the people that you know well intimately family, close friends but it's also people that there's another great TED talk about lollipop moments. So maybe going back to summer camp is one of the good examples.

Speaker 1:

My counselor when I was in seventh grade, going into eighth grade, this British counselor his name was Alan. He was there for one summer but just the coolest guy, coolest counselor really wanted to know all of us in the cabin. Well, it was also a unique setup for our camp. Normally there's two counselors in a cabin. Because we were short that year he was the only counselor for our cabin of nine, so he was just really good about knowing us.

Speaker 1:

So that summer I had brought my math homework with because I wanted to get a head start on the next year. I was doing some advanced math in eighth grade and wanted to, wanted to be ready for it and we had had our assignments given to us and wanted to get him out of the way and I brought him to camp with me and he took the time to, you know, sit down and help me with math homework. And when you look at all the different things that summer camp counselors do, from you know, leading the activities to, uh, the chasing down kids and other programs, and it just it's. It was very meaningful that um, that he did that, and it still resonates with me to this day, you know however many years later it is, but I'm also sure that it's. It's something that he doesn't remember. So it's it's being grateful for those, those tiny acts of generosity and just being present that that really, yeah, that are really shaping a really that really shaped me and that I'm, I'm grateful for having experienced.

Speaker 2:

That's great. Thanks so much for joining us, sutton. We appreciate you being here on Pride Stories, the podcast, and is there anything else that we didn't talk about that you really want to chat about?

Speaker 1:

I don't know that there is anything I don't know. I almost call myself an accidental community builder, and so I encourage, you know, anyone else who's stumbling into it, to just keep going. Just keep doing it.

Speaker 2:

Excellent final advice. Well, thank you for joining us in Pride Stories, the podcast. We're really excited to put this episode out into the world and thank you for building the communities that you do. Thank, you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for listening to Pride Stories, the podcast. I'm your host, max Kringen, and it's been an honor to bring this story to your ears. Pride Stories is proudly presented by Tellwell Story Co and Studio. We have an incredible team that makes this podcast possible every single week. If you've been inspired, moved or entertained by anything you've heard in this episode, please consider supporting our mission. You can do that by subscribing to the podcast, leave a five-star review or simply share it with a friend or family member. Your support helps keep the stories alive and resonating, and if you feel compelled to share your own pride story, we'd be honored to listen. Please visit the link in the description of this episode to get in touch. No matter where you are in your journey, whether you're out and proud or just finding your voice, remember you have a story to tell and it deserves to be heard.