Pride Stories: The Podcast

Redefining Family: Elle's Story

• Max Kringen and Tellwell Story Co. • Season 2 • Episode 7

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Join us in this touching episode as we explore life with Elle, an advocate and artist whose journey through chronic illness and LGBTQ+ experiences is nothing short of inspiring. Elle opens up about her family's acceptance of her polyamorous relationships and the deep connections she's built within her multigenerational home. From being a loving aunt and caregiver to embracing her roles within the queer community, Elle's story is an intricate tapestry of resilience, love, and radical care. Listen as she shares her transition from a driven teacher and roller derby player to a nurturing presence for her family, and discusses the joy and pride in reclaiming language and symbols that empower. With a unique blend of unbridled joy and righteous indignation, Elle's narrative invites us to celebrate authenticity and build supportive connections in our own lives.

Tune in now on Spotify and YouTube to be hear Sutton's heartfelt story of resilience and community-building:

https://youtu.be/sb7C8nE6tWE

Are you ready to share your Pride Story?  Visit https://wetellwell.com/pride-stories-podcast to learn more.

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Speaker 1:

In seventh grade, all I knew was I liked boys and I liked girls, and in 1997, there were no bisexual role models and that was not a word that I knew. So I still thought something was wrong with me. I knew gay was okay and I knew straight was okay, but I was like, well, clearly I'm broken, wow yeah. And so it was a lot of like trying to figure out. Well, I had to pick if I wanted to be gay or if I wanted to be straight, even though I knew that people didn't make that choice, clearly like I had to figure some stuff out before I told anybody.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to Pride Stories, the podcast where we celebrate the entire spectrum of experiences that make up the LGBTQ plus community. I'm your host, max Kringen, from Tell All Story Co and Studio On this podcast. We're committed to creating a safe, supportive and inspiring space for our guests and listeners alike, so join us as we explore the heartwarming, sometimes painful and always inspired stories that make us who we are. Welcome to Pride Stories, the podcast where we celebrate the entire spectrum of the LGBTQ community. We know that everybody has a story to share and we are so grateful that we have some really amazing storytellers in our community. I'm Max Krugan, chief Storyteller at Tellville Story Co in studio, and with me today in studio for Pride Stories, the podcast. We have Elle Billing. Hello Hi Elle. Hi Max, it's so good to see you. It's so good to see you. So people don't know this because people don't know things, but we've known each other since you were in like third grade yeah, elementary school yeah.

Speaker 2:

I was in second grade.

Speaker 1:

No, you're a year younger than my sister, oh right. So you're three years younger than me, right? Okay? So whenever your parents moved to Enderlin- yeah, that would have been like 95. Okay, I would have been in fifth grade.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I would have been in fifth grade. Okay, wild, but Elle and I were the stars of each First Lutheran Church production.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, I forgot about that.

Speaker 2:

I think one time you were Mary and I was Joseph.

Speaker 1:

And then there was the time where we did the play about the rapture.

Speaker 2:

Yes, oh my gosh, do you remember those puppets that your mom built us? You may have been gone.

Speaker 1:

I was gone with the puppets, oh, but the one about the rapture. So this is a cool piece of trivia. The pastor who, our interim pastor, who did the, what he even had a little name for us, uh, like the lutheran, the first luther Lutheran players. Is that what we were? Something like that, I don't know. He does some acting in Fargo and he is in a commercial for Hospice of the Red River Valley. Oh, that's wild. My parents pointed it out to me one night. They're like look, that's Pastor Alger.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's wild. But needless to say, we've been in productions together, big and small. We spent too much time, you know, going to the Dairy Queen and Shop and Fuel and on speech buses and all of that and in City Hall before they had the HVAC system.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, Fixed yeah.

Speaker 2:

Before there was any AC in there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, either freezing our butts off or roasting to death.

Speaker 2:

So our hometown is a tiny town in South East North Dakota called Enderlin.

Speaker 1:

But with a really, really rich. It's small but very mighty in arts.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it really is. Yeah, and as I was thinking about, I was so excited when I saw your name kind of pop through and I was like fascinating Because like we've never had a conversation about our LGBTQ plus basically our queer life stories.

Speaker 1:

No, we haven't. We haven't seen each other since. Let's see, I went to a party at your house in Enderlin and we played board games, I think, or had a bonfire, so like I was still in college, yeah, but like that was the probably the first person that was finally like hey, um, do you know that you're gay? And, and it was. She did it in the most loving of ways.

Speaker 2:

This was well after high school and we were just on the phone and I think I was telling her about like a girl issue that I was having and she's like, um, hey, can we just, can we just talk about this real quick? And it was very sweet and it was finally like, oh, yep, yeah, Okay, yeah, I didn't know about that and she was she. You know she was very caring about it, but it was. It was, uh, just a funny experience where you know other people know, before we do, We'll know before we do.

Speaker 1:

That's interesting. You bring that up because my mother prides herself on having a gaydar. Yes, she does.

Speaker 2:

And having a very good one.

Speaker 1:

She tried to get my sister by the way, who is not gay but who now says she's somewhere under the rainbow right, she's like I don't know what it is, but it's there Tried to get my sister to come out as gay, like through all of high school, and she never suspected that I was queer ever. Well, you always had a boyfriend.

Speaker 1:

I did right like yeah yeah, yep, and I married my high school sweetheart. I also divorced my high school sweetheart, but like she never suspected and I was the one who was always like, really curious about the queer community and like, but like in a really like there might be something there that's important, kind of way.

Speaker 2:

So basically we grew up in a small town arts community, queer, you know, growing up in the lutheran church I I don't know that I classify either of our parents as like traditional conservatives? Oh, my parents definitely not no, and my parents after, frankly after moving to minnesota and getting out of north dakota, became like these subaru liberals it's very sweet because you can only imagine john driving a subaru. But he loves a.

Speaker 1:

Subaru, that's great, yeah, I love that. No, my parents you know our family have always been pretty active in the Democratic Party as far as, like my grandpa was like an election, like official, and like our family was always really involved politically that way, like not like out in public but like supported. Like my cousin was an intern for Byron Dorgan years I mean obviously years ago, but when she was in law school. So like that's never been, they've they've never been on like the conservative side of that issue. Thankfully, I think that would have made things a lot more difficult.

Speaker 1:

They've never been on like the conservative side of that issue. Yeah, thankfully, I think that would have made things a lot more difficult.

Speaker 2:

Fair, fair, you know one. Uh, we can talk about history stuff for just like a couple more minutes and then we can like jump in. Cause I really want to hear your pride story and really talk about who is L of today. But like one thing that was really fascinating about growing up queer in the Lutheran church, I always saw your family as like pillars in the church and maybe that's too big.

Speaker 1:

They serve the church.

Speaker 2:

They serve the church. They serve the church Very active in the choirirs Sunday school. Your mom was my Sunday school teacher for many a year. She taught me many important things, specifically how not to take communion like a shot.

Speaker 1:

I thought you were going to say not to wear high heels with bad heels on them, because they get stuck in the carpet at the top of the stairs and you fall down.

Speaker 2:

Well, that, I think, happened maybe once or twice it did.

Speaker 1:

She did fall down the stairs at church with her high heels, yeah oh, in front of the whole sunday school class yes okay, that's the one people usually remember.

Speaker 2:

I didn't know the shot glass thing but, like you, had a cousin who was openly gay and they would come back and he would sing in the choir and he would do special music like for church services, and I think that may have been my first time like engaging with, experiencing like somebody who was openly gay and I remember your mom talking about it in Sunday school a little bit and being like he's just John your mom talking about it in Sunday school a little bit and being like he's just John.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so John's actually my, my godfather.

Speaker 1:

He's the oldest cousin and I'm like the second youngest, so there's like a because of the age differences in my family. He's like quite a bit older than me. He came out when I was in seventh grade and I had this kind of leads into like my queer story a little bit. When I was like in third or fourth grade my mom started sewing for Trollwood. After a couple of years she started taking me with her. So, as you know, trollwood Performing Arts School here and I don't know now it's Trollwood at Bluestem, but this was back when it was up in North Fargo by the river Incredible performing arts school Bringing in like directors and costume designers and stuff from like New York school, bringing in like directors and costume designers and stuff from like New York. That was my first real experience with gay people and I was like this is a really cool place to be and also we were in the costume shop. So I was like this 10 year old kid sewing costumes and there's high school kids all around trying costumes on and it just the energy was really like tangible and and looking back I can see that it felt important, but the word important didn't really like. That's not how I would have described it then. It was just cool. It was cool to be there Like I knew I was a kid and I was sewing for like high school kids and I knew that Trollwood was an important part of Fargo and I was like 10-year-olds don't get to do this, this is cool. And now I can look back and go. That was really important. And so I already had some exposure to gayness and queerness through Trollwood. I broke my wrist, one of the like the first year I was sewing for them. I was in basketball camp in Enderlin. I'm not an athlete. I broke my wrist playing basketball and the costume designer signed my cast and that was like the coolest thing I think that ever happened to me in my life was that this costume designer from New York signed my cast at Trollwood, trillwood. So fast forward.

Speaker 1:

My cousin. When I'm in seventh grade, we're sitting around the kitchen table. My parents are like we need to talk to you about something, the reason that we were dairy farmers up until then and my cousin was our herdsman. Well, he had decided to move to Chicago and we were going to sell the dairy. Now, to me, that was the part that was traumatic, because like if we weren't dairy farmers, who were we. So I was already wrestling with that and my my parents said the reason John is moving to Chicago is so he can be with the person that he's going to be dating and his name is Tom and I was like, oh, pass the potatoes. Yeah, like I was like, oh, it was just. Like my response to my cousin being gay was past the potatoes, it was not a big deal. What was upsetting was that we weren't going to be milking cows anymore. That was the only adjustment I really needed to make in my concept and expectations of our family.

Speaker 1:

I missed my cousin a lot. He lives in Denver now. He's married to a fabulous Canadian named Rob, who we adore. They come home often. When they got married my grandma couldn't she was quite old and couldn't fly out there, so they Skyped her into the wedding. It was really it was. It was great the whole. I mean, like you said, john would come back and sing in the choir. He was still part of the family. Like I'm sure his version of the story is quite different. He had his own growing pains and things with with his part of the family and that's not my story to tell, but as far as kind of paving the way for me to know that my parents would basically be okay if and when I came out.

Speaker 1:

But at the time, in seventh grade, all I knew was I liked boys and I liked girls, and in 1997, there were no bisexual role models and that was not a word that I knew. So I still thought something was wrong with me. I knew gay was okay and I knew straight was okay. But I was like, well, clearly I'm broken, yeah. And so it was a lot of like trying to figure out well, I had to pick if I wanted to be gay or if I wanted to be straight, even though I knew that people didn't make that choice Clearly. Like I had to figure some stuff out before I told anybody. Clearly. Like I had to figure some stuff out before I told anybody. And I didn't really figure out what bisexuality was until college. And that is what it's like to grow up queer in a small town, yeah, in the 90s, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

That feels spot on With, like, you know you can objectively know something. You can objectively realize something. You know you can objectively know something. You can objectively realize something but like subjectively and internally, still not be able to like totally comprehend it. Yeah, and you're doing it alone. Yes, and you're figuring that stuff out alone. Well, we can keep going down this path.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would actually. Yeah, fine, I realize.

Speaker 2:

I love like we're 20 minutes in and this feels like it's been like three minutes. But what I'd really love to get into, and really is the point of the story, I want to introduce people to Elle. Yes, so for anybody who doesn't know who is Elle, Elle is me, elle.

Speaker 1:

If I know, I've been hanging on to that for like 20 minutes. Like I'm going to use it.

Speaker 2:

Perfect. It is a perfect, perfect way to go.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I know how to build a sound bite. Okay, so for a while, I split my life into the time before and the time after. Split my life into the time before and the time after. So the time before is prior to 2013. Perfectionist, highly driven, workaholic, teacher of the deaf and hard of hearing out in Idaho, and married to my high school sweetheart, super involved in my church, and at that point I was also playing roller derby, so I was just like driven driven. Some people knew that I was bi. My ex-husband did. Oh, spoiler, ex-husband yeah, but like my parents didn't, like my siblings knew my ex's family did. He told them, yet I don't know. It's like it's hard to suss out now.

Speaker 1:

Anyway, in 2013, I asked for a divorce and I got hit with my first migraine attack, which lasted for 23 days. All that happened in like the last half of the year. The divorce was finalized at the beginning of 2014 and it took most of 2014 to get my migraines under control and I don't remember most of that year. I am still fairly debilitated by migraine attacks when they happen. The medication that I'm on now is I wouldn't be able to afford it if it wasn't for health insurance, and it makes me a little dopey, but better than the med I was on before was even worse. Like they call it Dopamax for it's Topamax, but like they call it dopamax it's an anti-epileptic and it makes you kind of spacey. So really my life is sort of divided into this time before where I had energy and drive and ambition and I was go, go, go, workaholic, perfectionist, and then this time after where I've had to learn to rest and say no, rest and say no and eventually, you know, during the pandemic, you know, switching to remote teaching, teaching deaf kids on a screen that's only this big and you have nine screens within the screen and trying to track them all visually. My eyes are really sensitive because of the migraine disease.

Speaker 1:

I went from having like three to four migraine attacks a month to having 12 the first month of remote learning and I ended up, through the course of the pandemic, completely burning out. It got to the point where I couldn't like, where I wouldn't have to sign right. I couldn't even keep my arms up in front of my body. I couldn't feel my hands. I was really, really ill. So I went on medical leave, decided not to renew my contract, I sold my house, I moved back to Anderlin. I moved in with my parents and I've been out of full-time work for three years now, so just completely rearranged my life to focus on care and rest and health. I am now a caregiver for my mom who has a progressive illness. I have an art studio in my old bedroom. I have a podcast where I talk about like caregiving and art and disability and that's my life now. So it's a really big, a really big shift.

Speaker 1:

Recovering perfectionist, definitely. I mean that doesn't go away. But learning to divest from the need to be you knew me in high school Divesting from the need to be that person, because a lot of that was externally imposed on me. But it gets internalized right, like my worth isn't my ability to produce, my worth isn't my ability to behave a certain way or look a certain way or get a certain amount done or achieve a certain level. It's taken me years, years. That's what it's been 10 years now. It's taken a long time. I went from, you know, being president of a roller derby league to being sweatpants auntie of the year.

Speaker 2:

I loved reading that.

Speaker 1:

That was from my nieces when my sister got married and I was co-mate of honor. So I was in a dress, right, my hair was done, I had makeup on, I was wearing earrings and one of our nieces said you don't like you're pretty, but you don't look right Like you should be in sweatpants. I was like like you're pretty, but you don't look right like you should be in sweatpants. I was like you're right, this is. This is not comfortable, I said, but we get dressed up when we care about people having fancy events. And as soon as the ceremony was over, I put my slippers on.

Speaker 1:

I wore slippers for the dance, like I couldn't handle the. I had flats and I still couldn't handle them.

Speaker 2:

So what a transition, though over 10 years. So that was the first 10 years of your adult life.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that was like from 18 to 28 and then from 28,. Now I'm 38, from 28 to 38. It's been like lifetimes. Like it's so different.

Speaker 2:

That transition, I would imagine, came with a lot of big feelings.

Speaker 1:

Grief.

Speaker 2:

A lot of grief.

Speaker 1:

A lot of grief. There was a lot of anger At least one abusive relationship in there. So there was also a lot of begging isn't the word? Like I wasn't begging for someone to take care of me, right, but like I was also really scared of being alone. To take care of me, right, but like I was also really scared of being alone. And part of that is because when my migraine and I was dating somebody after my divorce and when my migraine attacks would last seven to 10 days, I was really scared of being home alone. And I've talked about this with people before.

Speaker 1:

When the topic of opioid addiction or pain medication or drug overdoses comes up, I use Prince as an example and I say I don't. I'm not a doctor, I'm not an addiction specialist, I'm just somebody who experiences pain. I don't think, I don't believe that Prince died of a drug overdose and I don't believe that he was an addict. He was dependent and there's a difference. He needed a hip transplant, right, but he didn't get one because he was a Jehovah's Witness. And when you get a joint replaced not transplant, replace a hip replacement. And when you need a joint replaced, you have to sign off on blood transfusions, and Jehovah's Witnesses don't accept blood transfusions. So he was. He had a bad hip. It was bone on bone. That is incredibly painful.

Speaker 1:

Prince was in excruciating pain every single day of his life. So, yes, he was dependent on pain medication to get through his day. Having been in situations where I am in so much pain that I would do almost anything to make it stop, where I am in so much pain that I would do almost anything to make it stop, it's terrifying, it's like really scary to be in so much pain and to not remember if you've already taken your medication and I wasn't even on anything serious enough that it would have like killed me if I took it twice. But when you're in that much pain and all you can think about is making it stop or making it just go away, enough to rest or relax, I can absolutely see how someone could have an accidental overdose.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you talk a lot about pain, pain management. Remind me of the term for like long-term Chronic, chronic, chronic, yeah, chronic on your podcast.

Speaker 1:

I do. Yes, I interview a lot of disabled people and I talk about my own experience a lot. My migraines are pretty well controlled right now. I mean other people would say having four a month is not well controlled and I'm like well, it could be worse but I it could, it could be 12.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it could be 12. That first month was really bad, and I have medication to even once one hits, I can stop it pretty fast. I went three months without that medication, though, too, and that was really terrible. I also have fibromyalgia and PMDD and a bunch of other complicating factors, so I do talk about chronic pain and chronic illness a lot.

Speaker 2:

And.

Speaker 1:

I interview other people who live with various disabilities and illnesses as well.

Speaker 2:

Can you shut up the podcast?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, sorry, my podcast is called Horf. That's H O O R F and the subtitle is radical care in a late capitalist hexcape.

Speaker 2:

I love that you use hexcape.

Speaker 1:

Well, yeah cause my dog named it Horarf, so like you know, when you speak doge or whatever it's called yeah say heckin right plus I thought hexcape would. It's just just, it's just me, it's just me it really is.

Speaker 2:

It really is. I love that and I also love that you've taken if I can be so bold as to say, like what would probably kill a lot of people and you've taken it and you've you've not only lived with it, but you're also trying to do good and provide education and have something potentially good come from it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's the only thing I know how to do. So are you a fan of Florence and the machine?

Speaker 2:

Uh Lightly. I am a fan of their music. I know nothing more than that.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so I'm a little obsessed. So the way my sister's a Swifty is kind of how I feel about. Oh my god.

Speaker 2:

I'm just side note. Katie is a Swifty.

Speaker 1:

Huge, Like I don't get it. I don't get it.

Speaker 2:

I was going to say that that does not compute to me, but that, like I don't get it, I don't get it. I was going to say that that does not compute to me, but that's all right, it's also been a minute since I've seen her.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, I don't get any Swifties, to be honest. But, like, people probably don't understand why I'm obsessed with Florence and the Machine, but I saw a meme that my partner sent me that said Florence and the Machine writes music for gays with religious trauma who try to move things with their mind when no one is looking. And I'm like, yeah, that's pretty much it, that pretty much nailed it. So, anyway, in Dance Fever, which was the album that came out after during slash I can't say after the pandemic people are still dying but like that was Florence Welch's pandemic album.

Speaker 1:

I'm not going to be able to remember the lyrics if I'm not singing or listening to the song, but there is a line where she said Is this how it is? Is this how it's always been To exist in the face of suffering and death and somehow still keep singing? And then the next line is it's like Christ upon the cross, who died for us, who died for what don't you want to call it off? There's nothing else that I know how to do than to open up my arms and give it all to you. And she's talking about her music yeah I don't know what else to do.

Speaker 1:

Like I mean, life is complicated and emotions are complicated and I think on my facebook profile I said I'm a balanced flavor profile of unbridled joy and righteous indignation, and I used to think I had to pick one or the other, you know, and just have, just like, be one thing. And I'm like I have never been just one thing, I've always been really complicated it's one of the reasons that I've always loved you.

Speaker 2:

It's always been fun and, and you know it's it's. I would also say it's one of those things when you get face to face again and you're like where you been for the last 20 years and like you know what I mean, like dying. Well, I mean, that's what I'm learning.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I survived, I've. Yeah, I've done, I'm okay.

Speaker 2:

I'm okay.

Speaker 1:

I had a good support system Even when I was dating that really terrible person. I had a good support system that helped me get out of that.

Speaker 2:

So I want to transition a little bit into the point of the podcast. Oh yeah, I don't the gay stuff the the gay stuff, but maybe more so than than even the gay stuff, but I just, I just, really want to know, like what is, what is l's pride story? What are you? What are you proud of?

Speaker 1:

oh gosh, I'm still here and I've been sober since 2018. I'm pretty proud of that. I actually just did an interview with somebody on my podcast about gray area drinking. You know that space between people being able to call you an alcoholic and sobriety right, that sort of nebulous gray area that most of us probably fall in, where it's like, well, I'm still functioning and where you can sort of justify the choices. Right, they were really bad choices and I stopped drinking in 2018 and it made a huge difference in actually my physical health, my cognitive, my neurological health and everything. I mean, I'm still a sick, ill, chronically ill person, but making the decision to stop drinking entirely made a huge difference in all of that and in, like, my emotional health as well. Alcohol is a depressant and it turns out it impacts how your medication works. Who knew I knew I was?

Speaker 2:

like. Don't all the commercials say that?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but I mean, but who listens to those?

Speaker 2:

commercials Right, and you don't notice and honestly, you don't notice and honestly it does.

Speaker 1:

You don't notice it when it's happening because you're in it right, so I'm pretty proud of that. I'm a community taught painter. Like I haven't taken art classes, but I'm selling paintings. I'm pretty proud of that. What's a?

Speaker 2:

community taught painter oh.

Speaker 1:

So a lot of people say they're self taught. Yeah, but I didn't teach myself. I've. I've been taught by my friends, right, like I've sought mentors, right, but I don't have a formal art education. So I say community taught, because it's accurate. I have a good relationship with my parents. I think that that is something to be proud of. One of the hardest moments for that, though, besides being in my late 30s and going home to live with my, my parents, which is hard but multi-generational living is something most of the world does and our. The way that our country, our culture kicks kids out when they're 18 and their brains aren't even fully developed yet is so cruel and arbitrary and, I think, leads to a lot of trauma for everybody. Back to a whole other episode.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I think one of the hardest parts even before I thought I would ever move home was telling my parents that I'm polyamorous. So we talked before about growing up in the church and so telling my parents that these friends that I had brought home for Christmas for a couple of years were my partners and they're married to each other and I'm dating both of them and my parents already really liked them. Yeah, and they are. You know, it's like I had sort of couched it. As this friend is trans and their parents rejected them and they don't get to go home for Christmas anymore, Can they come to Christmas with us? And my parents were like, of course, they can.

Speaker 1:

Like we welcome everybody here. Why wouldn't they be able to come? And I'm like cool, and so they had come to Christmas for a couple of years and when we were home it must've been the second Christmas they were home with me. We're like so we really feel like it's important that we level with you and tell you exactly what's going on here. And so we're like we're like not just friends, we're like together, like together, together.

Speaker 1:

And I don't think my dad had ever heard of something like that, and my mom I don't think she had either, but maybe she had, I don't know. My mom had more questions, my dad was just really quiet, but then the next day we had Christmas with my mom's family. So it wasn't like there was even time to process information, but like they hugged everybody the next day. They're like you know, we're happy to have you in the family, and they hugged us everybody and said that they loved us and my part, um, one of my partners, comes.

Speaker 1:

Now that I live here, um comes and stays with us for like two to three months out of the year and helps with, like most does, all the lawn mowing for my dad when my dad is busy in the fields and stuff. And it's getting to the point now where my dad's like when's ricky coming? Like it's already almost april and we have a group text with me and my dad and r Ricky and it's all baseball and memes and puns and like it's nice it. I was really, really worried about that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And it's it's been okay. I did not think it was going to be okay, you know. And my dad said you know it took some getting used to but it's all above board so it's okay like no one's getting hurt. He said so like I. Honestly I don't know how he feels about it on the inside. You know he might really have a problem with it and he's just wants us happy, you know, but from what he's told me to my face, you know we're good yeah.

Speaker 2:

Dan's a good guy. He is, dan's a great guy.

Speaker 1:

I would say he's wonderful.

Speaker 2:

So your relationship with your parents you're alive. Your involvement in the art community.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

What else?

Speaker 1:

What did I say when I fill out my form?

Speaker 2:

What did I tell you you? You talked about being active in your family. Oh yeah, like oh, I'm an auntie yeah, I like being an auntie.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I didn't end up having any, any children. I didn't end up birthing any children of my own which for a long time was a point of grief for me, um, and there are times when it still is um, but my health being what it is now, it's like. Oh, it worked out. You know it.

Speaker 1:

Two things can be true at once yeah but my step kid graduates in june from high school, so that's pretty rad. That's been a fun relationship. And I have a god, a god child, out in idaho graduates this May. So I have two graduations to go to, one in Idaho, one in Chicago. Try to get to both of those. They're opposite directions but we're going to make it work because that's those are important relationships to me. And then I have, you know, my. I wasn't around when my brother's son was growing up. I got married when he was seven and then moved to Idaho right away and now he's like 20, he turns 23 this year. So I missed like the fun growing up years and he's a cool guy. But like he's an adult now. But like my brother's younger kids, I'm getting to be around for them and spend a lot of time with them and be the cool sweatpants auntie I love that.

Speaker 2:

So, as we think about the l of tomorrow, as we think about the l of the future, what's what's next?

Speaker 1:

more art, always more art. I have more ideas than I will ever be able to paint. That's. That's the problem with being a creative person. I'm sure you're familiar with that you have. The idealist is always longer. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

More art, more love that sounds more no it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't, especially when you when the work that you do is advocacy yeah Right, you advocate for those folks who are chronically ill, you advocate for disabled, you advocate for more art and more understanding, and so the idea that, hopefully, love is in the future, and more of it, especially during a pretty turbulent political time, especially as we are blue dots in a pretty red area, I don't think that's silly.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you're right, I just want. I'm having a pretty good day, so I'm like I just want more good days. I want my meds to keep working. Um, I would like my disability determination to be finalized so I don't have to stress about money, like I've been waiting. It's a long process because I can't work more than like three hours at a time. It's just which. It's hard to make any money that way. Just those are the things that I worry about, and I would like to not have to worry about those things, so then I can do the things I want to do, like take long, to take more naps, which I do anyway.

Speaker 2:

I'm a big I'm a big advocate for naps, yeah, so, as you think about the little queer kid in Enderlin, north Dakota or maybe it is that person who is chronically ill, the person who can't figure out their migraines, who can't figure out some of those things, as you just think about, like L of of a 10 years ago, what advice do you have for anybody else who's been through a similar journey, or even a really different journey.

Speaker 1:

It's okay to ask for help. Um, for a long time I I mean, you know I talked before about the time before and the time after for a long time I bought into that idea of like independent, right and like doing things on my own and being a strong, independent woman. Well, it turns out I am not strong, I am not independent and I'm pretty gender fluid. You know, I'm none of those things and that's okay. I like who I am now a whole lot better than I like who I was then. Then I liked I was pretty miserable. Actually, when I thought I was this strong and I was not holding my shit together at all, Can I say that, Okay, I was like, oh, swearing is empowered, encouraged on this podcast.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

You know, all those times that I thought I was like that. I was presenting myself as this strong, independent woman who had all her stuff together and, you know, was like, driven as I was miserable. And you know, I'm pretty happy right now, my life doesn't look like I should be. I mean, on paper. I'm like I'm on Medicaid, I'm barely employed. I'm in pain all the time. I sleep 14 hours a day, 12 to 14 hours a day. I left my career. I sold my house. I live with my.

Speaker 1:

You know I'm a geriatric millennial and I live with my parents and all the things that would maybe point to me as being a failure in our society. Right, I have my own business, but it doesn't make any money. It covers the overhead. Right, my revenues cover my overhead. It's not a profitable business right now and I'm okay with that. I'm not running myself ragged. I have time for the people I love. I have time to experience my emotions in real time. I get to play with my dog. I get time to experience my emotions in real time, you know, I get to play with my dog. I get to help my mom and actually be around before she dies, which that's a whole nother episode too. You know like I do the crossword with my dad every day, Like that's pretty awesome.

Speaker 2:

That is pretty awesome. My parents moved back to well, moved to Fargo after they retired and, uh, I love getting to spend time with them. So so I I would say, when I read in your story that you had moved home, my immediate thought was not like pity, or that doesn't sound like she's thriving. I loved your childhood home, like it was always someplace that you felt at home, that everybody felt welcome and would love to go back there, right.

Speaker 2:

And so so the fact that you got to go back there definitely see it as, yeah, as a positive.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, to go back there. Definitely see it as yeah, as a positive. Yeah, my advice would be just because I'm leaning into that now the asking for help and accepting help and not just, but like reciprocally, like build those connections and ask for help.

Speaker 2:

That's, honestly, probably the biggest lesson I've learned last question yeah, and then, and then we'll wrap up. It's a question that we ask everybody and I'm really excited to hear your take on it. What does pride mean to you?

Speaker 1:

Okay. So the first thing I thought of were those relief. Okay. So you know how every year during pride month, like the really fundamentalist conservative churches freak out, right. And then there was that meme that went around. That was like pride month. If you smash it together, it says demon in the middle and they're like, oh, but then like the queer community sort of latched onto that and thought that was really funny. Have you seen that?

Speaker 2:

I don't remember this, but I will be.

Speaker 1:

I will be looking this up, yeah, so if you put the words pride, month together, it goes d-e-m-o-n. Right, yeah, so, like some can since I've already did that on like twitter or instagram or something like demon, right? But of course, we take things that are meant to insult and to harm us and we turn them around and we make them work for us, right? So of course, the queer community is like that's hilarious, and now, like they sell shirts that say that, right, it says it like multiple times and as it goes down the shirt the word demon gets bolder.

Speaker 1:

Like I'm not saying pride means demon, I'm saying that what I'm saying is, I think, not just like pride, as in queer pride, I think pride and knowing who you are and what you stand for, we're able to take things that are intended to harm us at least to some degree, because I mean there are some things that are intended to harm us and that will harm us and there's nothing. We there's no way to flip it, right, and there's a lot of that going around. So I'm not trying to be flip, but like that was a meme, right, but there's a lot of ways that we have been able to reclaim and reorient things intended to harm us and to use them to our advantage, or to use them for joy, or to use them for good or for laughter, like the Pride Demon shirt.

Speaker 2:

Reclaiming right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, reclaiming. I mean. The word queer used to be used as an insult and now we're like nope, that's who we are. Yeah, my mom hates the word and she's like I wish you wouldn't. Yeah, she's like I wish you wouldn't identify that way. I'm like um, you don't get to decide. Sorry, mom, it's just such an ugly word. I'm like I love it what's and what's great is.

Speaker 2:

I can actually hear, I, I can hear it and I can see her like purse her lips and like her eyes get a little squinty and she's like. I just don't like that word, I just yeah, that one, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So I think it's yeah, I think that's something that we're really good at because we have to be. But I think too like I think of my friends in the disability advocacy community who use words like crip, like crip time and crip the vote and it's like okay, well, it's not okay to call people crippled anymore, but people within the physical disability community are like we can use this ourselves as advocacy, you know, just being able to take words that used to be harmful and turn them into in-group language to empower us. I think that's what pride is. It's demon shirts.

Speaker 2:

Pride is demon shirts.

Speaker 1:

Well, there's your soundbite, Max.

Speaker 2:

I think I think I know what the tell all pride shirt is going to be next year. But, uh L, thank you so much for for joining us on pride stories, the podcast. Thanks for being brave to share your story. Thanks for also sharing to share your story. Thanks for also sharing the stories of others. If people want to find the podcast or they want to find you on social, where would they go to do that?

Speaker 1:

My social is at L and wink, so L-E-L-E and spelled out and wink, which is my dog's name, or at Horf podcast, that's H-O-O-R-F Podcast.

Speaker 2:

Awesome. Thanks for joining. Let's not wait another 20 years before we have another conversation.

Speaker 1:

We definitely would be geriatric millennials then. Thanks again. Yes, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for listening to Pride Stories, the podcast. I'm your host, max Kringen, and it's been an honor to bring this story to your ears. Pride Stories is proudly presented by Tellwell Story Co and Studio. We have an incredible team that makes this podcast possible every single week. If you've been inspired, moved or entertained by anything you've heard in this episode, please consider supporting our mission. You can do that by subscribing to the podcast, leave a five-star review or simply Thank you. The link in the description of this episode to get in touch. No matter where you are in your journey, whether you're out and proud or just finding your voice, remember you have a story to tell and it deserves to be heard.