Pride Stories: The Podcast

Redefining Success and Authenticity: Athena's Story

• Max Kringen and Tellwell Story Co. • Season 2 • Episode 9

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Listen in for a heartfelt conversation with Athena, a neurodivergent, biracial, trans non-binary advocate, as they share their journey to self-acceptance and identity in Fargo. In this episode, Athena opens up about the challenges and triumphs of navigating life as a bridge builder between diverse communities. They talk about their struggles with embracing the trans label, the transformative experience of hormone replacement therapy and top surgery, and the many "mini coming outs" along the way.

Athena also highlights the incredible support of the queer community and the importance of self-love through personal and professional hurdles. Their story is a powerful testament to the impact of embracing one's true self, advocating for health and disability rights, and fostering inclusivity in the community. Tune in for an inspiring and candid look into Athena's world.

Tune in now on Spotify and YouTube to hear Athena's heartfelt story of self-discovery and community-building:

https://youtu.be/1IIaGE0SmfE

Are you ready to share your Pride Story?  Visit https://wetellwell.com/pride-stories-podcast to learn more.

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Speaker 1:

It really hadn't occurred to me very much to like, even like question my sexuality that much, because I was so busy doing other things right, I was so busy in high school taking like 17 AP classes, and in college I was so busy trying to, like you know, get good grades so I could go to medical school. When I met Izzy and I finally like realized what it was, I was like, oh, that makes so much sense.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to Pride Stories, the podcast where we celebrate the entire spectrum of experiences that make up the LGBTQ plus community. I'm your host, max Kringen, from Tell All Story Co and Studio On this podcast. We're committed to creating a safe, supportive and inspiring space for our guests and listeners alike, so join us as we explore the heartwarming, sometimes painful and always inspired stories that make us who we are. Welcome to another episode of Pride Stories, the podcast where we explore the entire spectrum of the LGBTQIA plus community. I'm Max Kringen, the chief storyteller here at Tellwell Story Co and your host for Pride Stories, the podcast, and in studio with me today I have Athena. Athena. Welcome to Pride Stories.

Speaker 1:

Hello Welcome. I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 2:

I'm so excited that you're here. How are you feeling coming into this?

Speaker 1:

I feel nervous for sure, because I don't think I expected all of this to feel as official as it does. We're in like a very official feeling studio and I'm not a very serious person, so it feels a little serious. But I'm really excited to be here and to chat with you and to share my story.

Speaker 2:

Nothing to be nervous about. You know you're just broadcasting your own personal story, for you know tens of people to hear, but we're really excited to have you on. So, athena, for anybody who doesn't know you including me, I don't really know you that well yet, I just know a little bit about what I've read. Who is Athena? Introduce yourself.

Speaker 1:

Well, obviously my name is Athena, first name is Athena, last name is Sphere. I identify as a oh gosh, so many words. But queer, neurodivergent, biracial, black, trans, non-binary person. So a lot of words for my identity. In terms of who I am, kind of, you know, in my day-to-day life I like to think that I'm a health I guess you could say physical and mental health advocate, as well as a disability rights advocate. That's kind of what I do for my day job. For, you know, you got to have, you got to have a job where you get a little bit of monopoly money. So that's kind of what I do as my day job. And then, outside of that, I love board games, play a lot of those, I love to read books, I love to listen to podcasts. I like to think of myself as an art enthusiast and consumer. And I am a dog mom. That's probably like the biggest thing. I have a sweet, sweet, slightly neurotic Pitbull, but she is just the love of my life.

Speaker 2:

As she should be. Also, can we just side note for a moment that Pitbulls get a bad rap. They do Save the pitties.

Speaker 1:

They do. So I have a Pit bull and she is like I will say she's a little neurotic, but it's not. It's not like mean energy, it's like, oh my gosh, I love you so much that I don't know what to do with myself. Energy. I always like to say that, like if Esty was a person, her name's Esty, esty, she would gosh. She would either be like one of those crossfit ladies you know.

Speaker 1:

I know exactly, yeah, one of those crossfit ladies like super enthusiastic about working out and like a morning person and is like, well, I got up and I worked out and did 17 things. She'd be that like kind of person who, like you, love them for being so enthusiastic, but also they're like slightly annoying, or like a kindergartner who like ate a bunch of pixie sticks and then drew something on your wall, but in like a very endearing way, like you know. It was something like oh, I love you mom, or like something like that that they drew on the wall, but like they still drew on the wall, you know, and you're like God, so annoying but so cute. So, yeah, anyway, pitties do get a bad rep. I love pitbulls, obviously, but yes, save the pitties obviously.

Speaker 2:

But yes, save the pitties, oh man Well, thank you so much. Also, send Esty all my love, because I'm a big dog lover, my dog Kevin.

Speaker 2:

I had to leave him to come to this, and he was very confused because he got up like it's time to go for a walk and I was like, oh, I'm going back to the office, but I'll be right back, I promise. So from your intro, can we unpack some of those things a little bit Like? I don't know where you want to start, but I'd love to know a little bit more about some of your advocacy work.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah. So I guess I'll start. Oh way back, way back. How many years ago now? I'm like, how old am I? So I graduated from college in 2017 from a little school in Southern California called Claremont McKenna College, and I studied psychology with a minor in biology At the time.

Speaker 1:

My goal was to become a doctor. My goal was to become a doctor, probably some sort of like pediatric doctor of some sort. That didn't work out More on that later but so I did that. And then I graduated in 2017, got a you know kind of prestigious fellowship to work and study abroad. So I lived abroad on the Mediterranean island of Cyprus for about a year and a half and was teaching English and volunteering in my spare time with a few organizations. One of them was Special Olympics, another. I also did some work with a few refugee families that were there predominantly Syrian refugees at the time, but kind of the whole. They kind of ran the spectrum of in terms of where they came from. But came back from that in 2018, taught preschool for a year and got burnt out within that year because I had how many kids did I have that year? I think we had like 28 kids that year and it was me and one other teacher.

Speaker 2:

You had 28 kids in a preschool class.

Speaker 1:

So they were split between morning and afternoon. Okay, All right.

Speaker 1:

Still 14 is a lot, yes, and keeping track of the development of like 28 four-year-olds is really, really hard. And so I did a year of that and was like, hmm, that's not for me. And then went into the nonprofit world. I was working at Special Olympics International, so kind of went back to what I was doing while I was living and working abroad. I was working for their health team and I helped develop curriculum to teach healthcare professionals so doctors, nurses, dentists, etc. How to work with patients that have intellectual disabilities, and that is sort of where my passion for disability rights started. You know, going back many years, I've been working with individuals that have disabilities, either intellectual, physical or both since middle school volunteering that sort of thing, middle school volunteering that sort of thing and I had a lot of fun doing it at Special Olympics and developing this curriculum. I was also head of developing a fitness app for individuals with intellectual disabilities while I was there and then the pandemic happened and I lost funding. We lost funding for our fitness app, which was like half of my job, and I sort of got laid off, but also I sort of quit.

Speaker 1:

At the same time, from there was a caregiver, nanny I don't even know what to call it for a little girl who was going through cancer treatment. So I was gosh. I was taking her to chemo appointments. I was in charge of taking her to. You know all of her various therapies, so physical therapy, occupational therapy, occupational therapy, feeding therapy. Did that for a little over a year and then when we got sort of further into the pandemic, I sort of decided that I wanted to go back to school and I was dating somebody who was from Fargo at the time and went into going back to school with the plan of sort of moving to Fargo and having that individual as my support system. Long story, very short, which I'm sure we will have time to unpack a little later here.

Speaker 1:

That did not work out and I started working again with individuals with intellectual and physical disabilities. Did that for two years and was working very much in a sort of hands-on capacity, got burnt out on that and today I work at Canopy Medical Clinic and I am their Ryan White program manager, which is a program for individuals in North Dakota and within the Fargo-Moorhead area, but more specifically within North Dakota as a whole, who are living with HIV AIDS and we bring well, they come to us but we host support groups for them. We offer them therapy free of charge, as well as a bunch of other more sort of physical health services free of charge, more sort of physical health services free of charge. And you know, within all of that work that I've done, I realized that there are big gaps in oh gosh, quality of life, longevity of life, health outcomes, employment so many different realms of life for people with disabilities.

Speaker 1:

And you know, disabilities is a very broad term, but having seen and worked with so many individuals that have disabilities, I felt like it was important to be in a career professionally, but also working in my personal life to make people more aware of those differences and challenges and disparities for that community and also sort of within. And you know, do I guess what I'm trying to say is do what I can within my community to try to, you know, fix some of that, to rectify some of that, to make it better. Yeah, does that? I don't know if that answered your question or not.

Speaker 2:

That answered so many questions. Also, can have you ever like stopped for a moment to be like, wow, I've lived 27 lives in my short life so far?

Speaker 1:

You know, I gosh, I have, but only only recently, like in the past few years. You know, if we want to talk about like, I guess you know, if we're talking about my, my story as a person, um, as a whole, I didn't grow up in Fargo, right, I didn't. I didn't grow up in Fargo, moorhead. Um, I'm definitely a Fargo transplant.

Speaker 1:

I grew up in and lived in DC, um, dc, or the DC region, Washington DC, for most of my life and it is, it's a very different culture there, just a little, yeah, just a little, in in just every single way possible and with that you know sort of difference in culture. It is, you're in this city and community where national news is like, you know, your, your, you know some of your friends' parents are like senators or you know, I had one of my friends shout out to Helen, if she's listening, her dad works and is at National Geographic and is like one of their huge, like famous photographers and it's kind of like growing up in a pressure cooker when you're in that environment, cause it's like, if you're not, you know, captain of the soccer team and like finding the cure to cancer in your spare time by the time you're like 16, then like what are you actually doing with your life, right?

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's so fascinating. So so like doing all these things wasn't just a happy by-product of Athena as a person, it's. It was kind of an expectation.

Speaker 1:

Definitely an expectation, you know, I would say, and some of that expectation is, or was, you know, in my own head. Some of it was right, a lot of it is in your own head and is the product of what you grew up in, right, and some of it was, was definitely and is still real expectation from my family, real expectation from my family, gosh, without, without getting too much into it. You know, my parents had and have very high expectations of me and that is something that I definitely internalized, I am for sure, a recovering perfectionist and people pleaser. So I've had to learn and particularly, I've had to learn over the past few years. I've been in Fargo, gosh, almost three years now It'll be three years in June, I believe, june, I believe and I've had to learn over the past three years how to do things for myself and not not just for other people or because it's what other people expected of me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So yeah that's so.

Speaker 2:

Let's keep going down this path, because I think what's what's so interesting and what happens sometimes on this podcast is we and I think this also just happens, like in general in conversation when we start to talk about, like who is, in your case, athena, what we kind of automatically, automagically go into is here's what I do, here are the things that I do, and part of this experiment that we're doing is like how do we go one step deeper, right and so? So here's my challenge to you. You have an incredible list of accomplishments and things that you have done and are doing and like what I think is interesting. Most of those are around giving care to other people. So unpack that for a moment. Why who is, who is Athena?

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's such a that's just a complex and multifaceted question, right, and you're right. Like and like I said, I am a recovering perfectionist and people pleaser. So when people ask me who I am, sometimes I'm like here is my LinkedIn profile. Let me list all of my like LinkedIn accolades. We go one step deeper. I guess.

Speaker 1:

I am a person who I just I love people, right, I love people, I love, you know, making sure that the people around me are thriving right, because that's what makes me, that's how you know, in a lot of ways, that's what makes me thrive as a person when people around me are thriving right and are living their best life. And I, you know, I've had to do a lot of work to untangle that from the expectations that I like set for myself and that my parents sort of set for me. But when it comes down to it, I really do love people and I love meeting people and connecting with people. I love to be somebody that, like bridges communities and bridges difference. I think that is the biggest thing about me is, like I feel, in terms of who I am, I grew up kind of in two different worlds in a lot of senses.

Speaker 1:

Right, like I'm a biracial black woman, right Like my dad, is black. My mom is white. I grew up in DC but spent a lot of my childhood in kind of like the middle of nowhere, lower Midwest, and because that's that's where my grandparents were and and, you know, that's kind of where I got shipped off to for the summers, which is, you know, a completely different world than DC. I grew up as you know. I grew up, as you know, in terms of my family. My family and my parents are very sort of liberal leaning, you know, politically, which I had to a lot of times bridge with, like the conservative family that lives in, like the lower Midwest Right, the lower Midwest right.

Speaker 1:

I, you know, was the first person in my family to go to college, which is, you know, if you've, it's a very different culture. Going to college, and specifically going to the college that I went to, Cause I went to this like very affluent for lack of a better term um, private college in Southern California where, you know, I had, I had friends, parents who it wasn't necessarily like DC because it, you know, most of my friends parents in college weren't senators, but a lot of my friends parents were CEOs right, a lot of my friends' parents were CEOs right, and so they, you know, I've sort of grew up being in between all of those things and so, when it comes down to it, I love finding what people can connect over. I am no therapist.

Speaker 2:

I don't pretend to be one, but I'm curious do you think part of becoming a bridge builder, becoming that person that connects seemingly very different things, is partially because you haven't necessarily felt like you fit into any of those, like one specific groups, right, as you kind of share a lot of your story.

Speaker 2:

You talk about, like you know, being like biracial, like you have a foot in both of those worlds, as being in DC but also being like in the Midwest. You have a foot in two very different worlds, like even as you talk about like like medical care and like bridging that with you know some of like the emotional care that you do now. Like those like they feel like they should be adjacent but they're pretty different worlds.

Speaker 1:

I definitely think that a lot of me feeling like somebody who is a bridge builder is me being a person that had to create my own space. That you know. It was me allowing myself to be in both worlds, because I got a lot of you know as a as a, as a biracial black person. It's like, well, you're not black enough for one side, right, but you're also not white enough for the other side, and so living in this like gray area is what I'm used to, and what I've sort of become best at is being in this like very, you know this, this no pun intended, but non-binary space. I think about kind of being that bridge builder, right, it gives me a distinct advantage, having had to do that for myself my entire life, right, and so being able to do that for other people comes very naturally to me now.

Speaker 2:

I so appreciate that and I think one of the things that I am even learning on this podcast is you know, we asked the I just asked the question about is it because you didn't feel like you fit in either of those spaces? And, rather than going to, well, it's my job to fit into somebody else's box, I create my own damn box and I fit into that. Like, do you give yourself credit for that? Like, do you understand how big of a deal that is? Because that's huge, and like we could all learn something from that.

Speaker 1:

I don't know. I mean, you know, I think when you do it your entire life, it doesn't feel like a big deal anymore. You're just like this is what we do, right, this is just what we do. You know, I have been doing a lot of work in therapy to try to unpack a lot of that work that I have done for myself but also for other people, because sometimes it's really really hard to be that person, and it's hard to be that person for your entire life person, and it's hard to be that person for your entire life. And you know, one of the things that I've had to get really good at over the past few years is like letting myself be tired, yeah, and letting myself being like it's okay to rest and it's okay to not know what the fuck it is you're doing, right, like yeah.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think it's also the realization, and, like the, as we get older, we realize actually nobody has any idea what the fuck they're doing. So it's not just it's, it's not just like the realization that we don't know what we're doing. It's that nobody knows what they're doing, and that's okay because we're all just doing the best we can. Hopefully.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and I would argue. Well, I would argue that some people are doing better at the best they can, and then other people, you know, it would be really great if the state of North Dakota was like, not trying to take away people's rights right now.

Speaker 1:

That would be great, it would be so nice. It's also one of the reasons this podcast exists. Right like I'm like hmm, is like trying to take away trans people's rights, women's rights, like is that the best we can do? Is that really the best we can do is, is that?

Speaker 2:

the most pressing topic of our time. Right now, it feels like no, it feels like no, you got stuff to do. Like go do those things. We're like 30 minutes into this and what I love about that is like how easy this conversation is so far. So I want to give you props on that and just like say thank you for making that conversation easy. Do you want to? So we actually have to get into the crux of the conversation, right?

Speaker 2:

The reason I'm here, but before we do that, I would love us to spend just a couple minutes, because you talk about, like, being really passionate about the topic of failure. I am so curious as to where this is coming from, because, like this does not compute in my head the person that's in front of me and like this beautiful human that's in front of me.

Speaker 1:

So I'm so intrigued to know why failure intrigues you. I think, gosh, it's going to. It's going to start with my story of like how I even got to fargo right, like how I even got here from washington dc. Like people listening are probably like why the fuck did this person who is queer and black and, you know, non-binary trans, come to Fargo, north Dakota?

Speaker 2:

I mean, it was rolling around in the back of my head. But you know what? I'm really glad you're here.

Speaker 1:

So so I will say, my journey to Fargo started kind of like on the heels of a of a failed relationship. I came to Fargo, you know, with this idea that I was going to be with this person and to have this support system of them, and that is not at all what happened. I came to Fargo, we broke up. I had decided to go back to school, and this was all happening at the time when, also, my parents and I had kind of this like explosive falling out. And so I came to Fargo and I was just like I was alone. I was alone in this world. That was very different than where I had come from. I knew that I didn't want to be in DC anymore because I was tired of I was kind of tired of living in that like little pressure cooker, and I needed something different. But I came here and I was, for all intents and purposes, very much alone and I had this idea that I was. You know, I was going to go back to school and I was going to do awesome and I was going to go to medical school. And that is not what happened. That is so not what happened. I went back to school and I did sort of okay. And I applied to medical school and, you know, got in and I did it for almost a year and I failed out. And me failing out was like I went.

Speaker 1:

I went into this deep depression, like very deep depression, was not taking care of myself well, ended up needing to be like hospitalized for a couple weeks because it was like I had worked almost my whole life right, like in high school I was the kid that took, like I think I had taken like 17 AP classes or something by the time I had graduated high school like something ridiculous and unnecessary, right. And in college I tried to do the same thing. I wasn't as good at college as I was at high school, but I had had this goal of like going to medical I'm going to go to medical school and be a doctor for like almost my entire life, right, or what at least felt like my entire life at that point. And then I went and I tried to do the thing and I failed at it, like I failed so hard at it and that was something that I had never experienced before. I had never experienced doing something. And then like getting the thing and then being like holy crap, I can't do this.

Speaker 1:

I thought my life was over, right, I thought my life was over when I failed out of medical school, you know, and I think it was on the heels of these other, all of these other failures, right, this failed relationship with my ex-girlfriend at the time, you know, I this failed relationship with my, my parents, or this, you know, falling out with my parents. I was depressed, and so I was, in a lot of senses, feeling like I was sort of failing myself, I wasn't taking care of myself. I felt like I was failing my dog, because I was definitely not, or at least I felt like I wasn't taking care of her as well as she deserved to be taken care of, and I had to. It took a lot of time for me to come out of that, right. It took a lot of therapy and talking about everything, you know, my, my life until then, right, my life until then to realize that you know, failure isn't, failure is not a bad thing, it's just a redirection, right, it's not. It doesn't mean that you're never, ever going to do anything good in your life ever again, which is what it felt like to me at the time. It felt like I was never going to. You know, and and I think I think too it it came at this time. This failure came at this time when I, when I needed to do a lot of self-exploration Because I you know, kind of like we talked about earlier I had no idea who I was, beyond the list of accolades that I could share with you, or you know the checkboxes that I checked off right, I just want other people to know that, right, like I want other people to know that, like, if you went to college and it didn't work out, like you're going to be OK. Or if you're in medical school right now and you are failing, like shout out to those people, because I know what that feels like, you will be OK. And even if you decide to step away from the thing that you have worked your entire life to get to, it will be okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And, and you know, I think I spent a lot of time sort of sitting in that failure and feeling like a failure and at the same time, I was realizing. I was realizing a lot of things about myself. I was realizing that I was trans, right, trans and non-binary, and that was something that I had sort of like shoved down in the back of my mind for a long time and I was realizing I was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder at 26, after like a lifetime of being like what? What is wrong with me? Right, and, and you know I'm I'm thinking about. I was also diagnosed with major depressive disorder, as well as generalized anxiety disorder, and so I'm getting all of these diagnoses and realizing that I'm trans and this is at a time when, like you know, trans rights and there's a lot of sort of negativity around being trans in the news and in sort of everyday life.

Speaker 1:

And I was like God, like who is going to love me with all of this? Right? Who's going to love this person who, like, failed out of med school, who has no idea now what they're doing with their life, who has all of these, you know, mental health diagnoses and autism spectrum disorder. Is, you know, trans? Like who is going to love me? And you know it's, it's cheesy and disgusting and I like kind of want to throw up a little bit saying it.

Speaker 1:

I realized that no one was going to love me until I started loving myself and investing in myself and telling myself that I was a failure, was not going to do that for me.

Speaker 1:

And like no one wants to date somebody who thinks not that, you know, not that like love has to be dating or that kind of thing, but like no one wants to date somebody who thinks they're a failure, right, like that's no fun.

Speaker 1:

And as soon as I started doing all of those things for myself was when things got a lot better, when I started looking, you know, or just like doing things that I enjoy doing, right, I started going to art museums in my free time and I started doing photography in my free time and I started taking my dog out to I mean, gosh, I don't know like hike I guess it's kind of like it's more like glorified walking here, cause we like don't really have Hills but, um, there's not a lot of elevation change. But you know, taking my dog out to hike and doing all of those things that like actually make up who I am as a person outside of what I do for my work, that I sort of became a person that felt lovable and then sort of, in my you know, fargo I don't know rags to riches story, I met my partner at Burn Bombs. It's a, it's a, it's a very Fargo love story, right, like.

Speaker 2:

I love that.

Speaker 1:

Um, I am was still am a regular at burn bombs and they are a server at burn bombs and, um, I don't know, at one point I just like I think it was when they were new at Burn Moms I had like introduced myself and was like hi, I'm Athena, you're going to see me here a lot, and just started like talking to them about. I think we just sort of started talking about like their art and we had this conversation and then when they had their lunch break, they like sat next to me and we kept talking and now we're like dating and it's great. Um, and so I turned to this like failure. I came to Fargo and I was like dumped and miserable and was like why did I come to this place where you know there's no, there's no black people there's? I mean, okay, there's not no black people, but there's a lot less black people than where I came from, which is, let's be, let's be clear. That is very easy to do when you come from like the blackest place in the United States or one of them, right, like Washington DC.

Speaker 1:

But I was like why did I come here? You know there's no black people, there's not as many queer people as I'm used to, and it has all come. It has all come very full circle, right. I've, like I didn't come here to meet my partner and like, fall in love at burn bombs over a bagel Right, that's not what I came here to do.

Speaker 1:

But I realized once all of those things started happening, right, I started dating my partner and I started working at Canopy and started doing all of these things that I love, that, like, even though Fargo's not perfect, um, and even though my story isn't perfect and I'm not a perfect person, being here and being out and visible as a queer, neurodivergent, biracial, trans, non-binary person is valuable and is important. And as many times as I wanted to leave over the past three years, you know, particularly when it's winter and the wind is blowing and it's like negative 40 degrees outside if I leave fargo, that's just one less person that people who are maybe not as accepting or people who are, you know, not used to seeing people like me get to see, right, that's just one less accepting person for that like little queer kid who lives in Fargo to see, living and thriving here, right. So it's been a. It's been a wild ride here, but a pretty incredible one.

Speaker 2:

Side note if you need a title for this like little queer love story, like latkes and love, or love and latkes, like I'm like, I would love to, I'd love to workshop that with you. So when I heard that you fell in love over a bagel, I was like, well, if only it was a latke.

Speaker 1:

But it's burn, mom, so they have latkes too oh, they have everything and I've I've tried, like most of the menu, to be honest I uh, I will be there tomorrow morning, so might see ya.

Speaker 2:

we're well into this and I feel like we've gotten little bits and bobs and pieces of your pride story, but I do want to offer you a chance. What is Athena's pride story?

Speaker 1:

What is my pride story? So I feel like my pride story is really not that exciting. I grew up and was totally a tomboy, totally a tomboy. And I grew up in a very liberal community. My parents are pretty liberal in terms of their political leanings and I grew up knowing that you know, gay and trans and lesbian people exist, right. But it wasn't until college when I like fell hardcore, like I didn't believe in love at first sight, until I like fell in love hardcore with this girl that lived in my dorm, like it was, I don't know, it was definitely like a.

Speaker 1:

I was walking up the stairs, kind of like a movie moment. You know, like I'm walking up the stairs, she's walking down the stairs, our eyes meet and like I'm instantly like drawn to her, like I'm drawn to her, like I'm like I have to know this person. So I met her and like couldn't like for the longest while like couldn't figure out what it was Right, couldn't figure out. And then it finally just kind of like hit me one day and I was like, oh my God, I am gay and it really hadn't, yay, and it really hadn't, it really hadn't occurred to me very much to like, even like question my sexuality that much because I was so busy doing other things, right, I was so busy in high school taking like 17 AP classes, and in college I was so busy trying to, like you know, get good grades so I could go to medical school. When I met Izzy and I finally like realized what it was, I was like, oh, that makes so much sense. I finally asked her on a date and I told my parents over like a phone call and my I think my dad said something like oh, who's the lucky guy, or something. And I was like, oh well, the lucky guy or something. And I was like, oh well, the lucky girl is. And they didn't really like, they didn't really say anything, they were just like, oh, good for you, and that was kind of it. Like, that was kind of it in terms of my coming out as like a gay person to my family. I had I've had many sort of mini comings out or many, many comings out after that to sort of other family members and like, none of them were surprised right, none of them were surprised. All of them very accepting. But I think realizing that I was trans and realizing that I was trans and non-binary was a lot harder.

Speaker 1:

I, because I think I think when you're trans, there's this narrative of being trans that like you feel like you were born in the wrong body and like that is you know, and like you know from a very young age and and that is the very stereotypical sort of trans story that is pushed and I, I never, I never felt like that. I never felt like I was born in the wrong body. I certainly felt like there were body parts that I did not like, but I never was like, yes, I want to be a man, right, and so it took. It wasn't until I came to Fargo and I, in sort of going to therapy and fleshing out all of my well, to begin with my previous relationship, that I kept coming back to this conversation that I had had with my ex-girlfriend, and it was a conversation about, um, I think it was a conversation about top surgery, because one of our friends at the time was considering top surgery, um, and she was like talking to me and she was like is that, is that something that, like you would ever consider? And at the time I was like, no, absolutely not Right. Like, no, I don't think so. But I kept going back to that like conversation and that answer, and it bothered me for a long time.

Speaker 1:

And then one day I was in therapy and was like sitting there, like talking to my therapist about this, and she was like, well, do you think it's because maybe you do want top surgery? And I had never allowed myself to, sort of, I was like, oh my God, I do want top surgery. Um, and it was very, you know, it was very and I and and at that time I still didn't really consider myself as trans, right, um, I was just kind of like what I thought was like a lesbian that wanted top surgery, right, and I had top surgery last summer, july 2023. Um, best choice I've ever made for myself. Um, best decision of my life, truly. So if anyone out there is thinking about it and like you're not sure, or on the fence, like it's okay to be on the fence and it's okay to think that, like what if I regret it? But from somebody who was worried that they would regret it, I have zero regrets and it is the best thing I've ever done for myself.

Speaker 1:

But, going back to back to that story, um, so I had top surgery, but I still and I loved it and I still love it. I still didn't feel quite I don't know like myself, like I still felt like there was something that was sort of missing. And so finally I decided that I wanted to try she they pronouns and I really liked the? They pronouns. I really really liked it. You know, after about six months of she they pronouns, I finally just like dove all in and went to they them pronouns and that's what feels right and that's, you know, using they them pronouns is what feels like home for me, which I never thought I would say. Uh, because I've had so many friends in the past that have switched to they them pronouns and it has been so hard for me to switch right In my, in my conversations with them or about them, to using those pronouns, which I'm so sorry, friends, I and sometimes I still slip up, right, even though I'm like, I'm like God, I am this person now and I still do it and so I made the switch to they them pronouns, but I still felt like there was something, there was something sort of I still wasn't all the way there, right and and and feeling at home in myself and in my body.

Speaker 1:

So I started to explore the idea of microdosing testosterone, and I think the hard thing about testosterone and hormone replacement therapy in general is that you don't get to pick and choose what happens to you. The way that you can with, like a surgery, for instance, right Like I with my top surgery, you know, I got to go over with my surgeon kind of the way that I wanted my chest to look and you know how how flat I wanted my chest to be or how not flat I wanted my chest to be, or whatever. And with hormone replacement therapy it's not like that, right, you can't just tell your body like, hey, it would be great if we could, like build some more muscle and have a deeper voice, but if we could like stop at the facial hair, that would be amazing, right, like that is not how your body works, that is not how genetics works, and hormone replacement therapy and what happens to you on hormone replacement therapy is entirely up to your body and genetics. And you know time pretty much. And so I started hormone replacement therapy and that is where I have really you know replacement therapy and that is where I have really you know microdosing on T is what has felt at the most at home to me of all of those changes. Right, I feel complete now in a way that I didn't before, and I think sometimes it's hard to wrap your head around when you're not a trans person, or if you're a trans person, who's maybe questioning whether or not you are trans. It's one of those things that, like, you don't know if you like it until you do it right, like you have to, you have to do it and if it feels right, that's when you know that it's for you, and if it doesn't feel right, or that's when you know it's not for you.

Speaker 1:

And I don't think I fully accepted sort of that trans label until I had started HRT. I had felt, you know, when I started using they them pronouns is when I sort of tacked on like non-binary, but I didn't feel trans because I didn't feel like there had been enough of a transition, which I would just like to point out. Like that's not a thing. You can be trans and like or identify as trans and like. There doesn't have to be this big transition, right, but it wasn't until I was, until I was on HRT, that I like, accepted and added that label.

Speaker 1:

Um, and when I was in, it was when I was having a part, a conversation with my partner where I was like, I don't know, am I trans? Like what is this? And my partner was like, babe, you're literally on hormone therapy. Like you are trans. And so my story is like all of these little stories coming together, right, I came out as gay or queer and then I sort of figured out that I was non-binary. And then I sort of figured out that I was non-binary and then I figured out that I was trans and it's a bunch of these little like mini coming outs. But it's less about coming out to other people and more about coming out to myself. Right, it's more about that self-acceptance and self-realization than anything.

Speaker 2:

Wow One. You're incredible. I so appreciate how you've been sharing these stories and I love the way that you've bridged. You know you've referred to yourself as a bridge builder, but like how you've bridged all of these little stories to create a really, really beautiful story as well. Maybe final question, probably final question as you think about your experiences so far, the work that you want to do, I'd love to know what are you grateful for?

Speaker 1:

Oh gosh, there are so many things that I'm grateful for.

Speaker 1:

I think the biggest thing that I am grateful for is community being a part of my queer friends for my top surgery and the money for, like, the, the time period that I would need to recover after top surgery um, with my community. There are so many other things that I'm grateful for from my community, but I think the support that I get from this community that I that I don't get right now from from other you know sources in my life, right so family. You know financially I'm very much on my own that that support is something to me that is irreplaceable and I would not be here without it and I would not be the person that I am without the queer community to be a part of. And it really brings out the importance of like having a queer community and having like a chosen family, this idea that, like, even though you're not connected through you know blood or DNA, like these people still have your back. So I think that's that's the greatest, that's the one thing that I'm really grateful for.

Speaker 2:

Amazing and uh, on behalf of some of your fellow queer community, thanks for being a part of this community and thanks for uh sticking around. Thanks for representing, thanks for advocating Uh, thanks for for sharing all of your failures, uh, thanks for sharing some of your triumphs and thanks for being on pride stories, the podcast.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2:

I have really enjoyed this and, um, you have been amazing at sitting through all of my like rambling tales about myself, so you're thank you you're an incredible storyteller and like I I don't use that super loosely like as a professional storyteller myself I know one of the hardest things is listening, and there were so there were like almost no times that I wanted to jump in and like add contextual stuff. So like that's incredible and so thanks for being here, thanks for being a great storyteller.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for listening to Pride Stories, the podcast. I'm your host, max Kringen, and it's been an honor to bring this story to your ears. Pride Stories is proudly presented by Tellwell Story Co and Studio. We have an incredible team that makes this podcast possible every single week. If you've been inspired, moved or entertained by anything you've heard in this episode, please consider supporting our mission. You can do that by subscribing to the podcast, leave a five-star review or simply share it with a friend or family member. Your support helps keep the stories alive and resonating, and if you feel compelled to share your own pride story, we'd be honored to listen. Please visit the link in the description of this episode to get in touch. No matter where you are in your journey, whether you're out and proud or just finding your voice, remember you have a story to tell and it deserves to be heard.