Embark on a linguistic journey with us and our guest Kit as we explore the rich tapestry of gender identities within the LGBTQ+ community. Prepare to have your understanding of labels like transgender, non-binary, and genderqueer deepened, and discover the personal stories behind terms such as demigender, demiboy, and demigirl. We tackle the complexities these terms represent and celebrate the authenticity they bring to individual experiences, all while emphasizing the significance of respectful and evolving language.
Confronted with the challenge of navigating gender discussions, we recount uncomfortable personal encounters that highlight the need for greater empathy and respect. Kit and I dissect these moments, offering insight into the appropriate ways to engage with transgender and demigender individuals. We also delve into historical perspectives, connecting the present with the past through the story of Thomas(ine) Hall, an intersex person from the 17th century, to illustrate the depth and continuity of gender diversity.
As we wrap up our conversation, we illuminate the subtleties of demigirl and demiboy identities, clarifying the spectrum of gender identification beyond binary confines. The discussion of pride flags and the diversity within non-binary terms showcases the personalized nature of gender expression. Join us for this nuanced episode that not only educates but also advocates for a more inclusive understanding of the many identities under the LGBTQ+ umbrella.
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Embark on a linguistic journey with us and our guest Kit as we explore the rich tapestry of gender identities within the LGBTQ+ community. Prepare to have your understanding of labels like transgender, non-binary, and genderqueer deepened, and discover the personal stories behind terms such as demigender, demiboy, and demigirl. We tackle the complexities these terms represent and celebrate the authenticity they bring to individual experiences, all while emphasizing the significance of respectful and evolving language.
Confronted with the challenge of navigating gender discussions, we recount uncomfortable personal encounters that highlight the need for greater empathy and respect. Kit and I dissect these moments, offering insight into the appropriate ways to engage with transgender and demigender individuals. We also delve into historical perspectives, connecting the present with the past through the story of Thomas(ine) Hall, an intersex person from the 17th century, to illustrate the depth and continuity of gender diversity.
As we wrap up our conversation, we illuminate the subtleties of demigirl and demiboy identities, clarifying the spectrum of gender identification beyond binary confines. The discussion of pride flags and the diversity within non-binary terms showcases the personalized nature of gender expression. Join us for this nuanced episode that not only educates but also advocates for a more inclusive understanding of the many identities under the LGBTQ+ umbrella.
Instagram
TikTok
Facebook
Want to see the video? Check us out on YouTube.
She interrupts me and says so are you going to get the surgery? She knew nothing else, so I told her my name and that my pronouns were he-him, and interrupted me in the middle of a conversation and be like so are you going to get the surgeries? Do you have a penis Bitch? I will punch you.
Speaker 1:Historically, the LGBTQ plus movement has primarily focused on sexual orientation, particularly the rights and visibility of gays and lesbians, but over time there has been ever more recognition of gender diversity within the community, which are now more regularly including transgender, non-binary and gender non-conforming people or terms.
Speaker 1:So now we have this recognition of gender diversity, that layer added into the mix, which is somewhat misunderstood and confusing for a lot of people, even those in the queer community.
Speaker 1:So I'm super excited to be here with Kit offering a bit of clarification on some of those terms that we don't hear used as often as I think we will outside of the expected binary world. I mean, I'm still doing my best to figure shit out and keep current with all the layers being added and unpacked. I feel like this is an expansion of terminology. It's continuing down a path of more and more momentum and today the terminology used to describe gender and sexual orientation has evolved so much over time to be more and more inclusive and also offer more adequate terms like transgender, non-binary gender, queer, specifically. Those terms have gained more prominence and also, as a part of this expanding terminology and what I call flowering language, with words that are so specific, now we're seeing and hearing terms like demigender, demigender, demigoy, demigirl and all the various iterations of demi. So Kit, do you want to share the definition of demigender with us?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and it's actually really interesting. As I was doing the research for this episode, I have definitely found terminology that I'm like oh, that, that, that feels that feels right, that feels very, very right, which is really really cool to have encountered throughout this research. But the definition of demigender as a whole is an umbrella term under which demigirl and demigoy fall, wherein people identify partially, but not fully, with a certain gender, with the pretext demi meaning half. So those who identify themselves as demigendered may also identify with other non-binary identities, while others don't. So some may identify as non-binary demigoy, non-binary demigirl, gender-fluid demigoy, you know, any combination of other non-binary identity, along with some variation of demigender, and the term is distinctly different from bi-gender, which refers to an identity of two or more genders existing in combination or at once.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that they use bi-gender, because bi to me means two, but it's the identity of two or more. So it's just interesting why they wouldn't pick multi-gender or something like that.
Speaker 2:Sarah, if you'd even bisexuality at this point means two or more like. It crosses the threshold into many identities for love, it basically totes the line of being pansexuality. The two are extraordinarily similar in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, the term demigender sometimes is considered to overlap with gender flux, which is used by people who experience a range of intensity within a gender identity. So I guess the gender flux individual can experience feelings of multiple genders on any given day or even in any given moment, and the term gender fluid is sometimes used synonymously with gender flux.
Speaker 2:Okay, See, that's something that I still sometimes get very confused with Me too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Me too.
Speaker 2:It can get confusing. It can get confusing. A lot of different words, a lot of different definitions. It can become a lot. It's good to have things written down sometimes. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:But I guess some specific examples of demigender which we'll go into is demigirl, demiboy and one that I found particularly interesting is demigangrgine. Have you heard of that?
Speaker 2:We have not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting. It's spelled D E, m, I A, n, d R O G Y N E and I had to look up the pronunciation of it because I didn't even know how to pronounce it. That's right, but it looks like androgyny or androgynous, but it's pronounced androgyne like J I N E If you were to phonetically, you know spell it out. But demigangrgine refers to someone whose gender identity partially connects to being androgynous, and a demigandrogynous person may also identify as non-binary, genderqueer or transgender. So you have all these like different layers now.
Speaker 2:That is fascinating. I love that so much.
Speaker 1:And then I was thinking well, how does a gender fit into the mix? So a gender people identify as gender less or gender neutral, and then, whereas demigender people identify somewhere between being a gender and having a gender. So it gets super specific.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:Which is crazy yeah.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:But anyway, something else I thought you would think was really cool too is so androgyne. When I looked up the definition online, it says noun androgyne, plural noun androgynes, and then it has two definitions Number one is an androgynous person and then number two is a hermaphrodite. So I thought that was very, very interesting because, I mean, you and I had spoke about androgyny before when I was kind of peeking a little bit deeper into my own gender identity, and I thought this would be super cool to kind of unpack here on the episode, because I thought that androgyny, you possessed both masculine and feminine characteristics, but it's like an outwardly expressed experience, not necessarily like a gender identity, but I think nowadays, because there's so many genders, the list is getting so much longer, and I actually found that androgyny is, for some people, a gender identity.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, that is something I know. That androgyny as an identity is something that I have definitely heard of, but the rest that is fascinating.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Also, just so you and everyone else, all of our listeners are aware, because this is a very important but not often talked about topic. Many intersex individuals are no longer very okay with the term hermaphrodite, that terminology, even though it's still used very often in dictionary definitions and you'll find it in very outdated is extremely outdated term that a lot of intersex individuals find to be rather dehumanizing. So they should really update that.
Speaker 2:They really should. Like Oxford needs to get on that 100%. Medical journals need to get on that. Like we need to be working out that terminology that these communities have said we don't like being called that For our listeners, for everyone. Even you know we understand that word is it's everywhere because of the technical terminology and stuff like that. But do your best to switch it out for intersex as often as you can.
Speaker 1:Agreed. Yeah, thanks for making that point. When I read the definition I was like this is such an outdated term. I can't believe this is even still here. So often it's crazy when things evolve so fast. I guess it's just sometimes it could take years for the textbooks and the those older school you know resources to catch up with current day. So it's like they're never really current.
Speaker 2:I mean, a lot of people don't even realize that female hysteria was only removed from the DSM in 1971 or 77. Something like that, and recently, like we're getting there but we're not there there. So this terminology that we see in a lot of these legacy organization informationals is going to be terminology that is kind of no longer okay to the community that these informationals are talking about.
Speaker 1:I think it also depends on the source too, because a lot of times you see organizations that are not for profit and they just don't really have the capacity to keep up with things, and so they put up a website with information and then they just let it sit. You know they're not relevant. They don't stay relevant because they're not continuously updating their information.
Speaker 2:They don't have the ability to yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it really matters, you know, try to pick a non for profit or a small company or business that is really, you know, committed to updating things and as close to real time as they can. Another thing I wanted to mention too about people who identify themselves as demigendered. The identification is independent of a person's physical sex, so that means that there's no requirement for a specific physical sex to identify as demi, boy or demigirl. So I think that I found that pretty fascinating too, because I did hear too that there is sort of like another definition, which I don't really like as much, but I'm going to say it anyway and we can kind of unpack it a little bit. But particularly for demigirls, they sometimes use the AFAB like assigned female at birth term. They use it loosely to associate with that identification, though not to the extent of experiencing significant physical discomfort or dysphoria. So I guess, alternatively too, it can refer to someone assigned male at birth who leaves more toward trans feminine but doesn't wholly identify with that binary spectrum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so at the end of the day, you do not have to be of any assigned gender at birth. Whatever assigned gender at birth you are, you can identify as whatever you feel is right for you, Whatever you feel is authentic for yourself, your life, your future. However, when you go look up information about demi boy and demigirl, you'll pretty often you will see things like oh, demigirls are assigned female at birth and demiboys are assigned male at birth. That was something I came across pretty often in my research, when not looking at specifically LGBTQ resources, when looking at things like I think the Cleveland Health Clinic had something about demigirls that had stated that they were assigned female at birth and I was like buddy, y'all are wrong, yeah.
Speaker 1:I definitely saw there were slightly different interpretations, so that's why I wanted to bring that up, just in case some of the listeners were thinking that same thing.
Speaker 2:I know absolutely. It definitely depends on where you go. But if you go to LGBTQ sources more often than not, you will see it does not matter what sex you were assigned at birth. It only matters how you personally feel you identify period. That is your personal journey to be on. No one else has a right to judge that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those who are demigendered may or may not identify as non-binary or trans, absolutely.
Speaker 2:You know, some do some don't?
Speaker 1:It's important to respect those who resonate with the different definitions and the different terms, because they're super valid, you know, no matter what.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think at the end of the day too, like everything else, being demi-gender is a spectrum and anyone can exist on any point of that spectrum, either as a demi-boy or demi-girl, demi-flux or demi, like I said, demi-androgyne. I always have to think about it before I say it, because it like to me, I always want to say androgyny or androgynous. I'm not used to saying androgyne, it's a weird.
Speaker 2:It's weird on the tongue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the emphasis is on the wrong syllable kind of thing. No, I don't. But just for context and for clarity being demi-gender differs also from and I'm kind of going off on a side step here, but it differs from being demisexual, demiromantic, pan-gender and, like we said earlier, bi-gender. Demigender exists on a world completely of its own and it doesn't fall under any non-binary identity. So I hope that that's quite fine.
Speaker 2:Yes, it can go in combination with other non-binary identities, but it itself is separate from other non-binary identities.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Thank you for yes, that's what I was trying to say I totally saw where you were going with that and I've been there so many times I'm like treading a fine line right now, because I'm also learning, so we know that there's a call for this.
Speaker 1:We know that other people are struggling with clarification and things like that as things evolve. So that's why it's super important for us to be super clear, and so I'm learning in the process of teaching.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, Like it's. Yeah, that's what life is. I feel like there's a lot of aspects of life that are learning while teaching being a parent, being a kid, being a teacher. It's learning while teaching.
Speaker 1:Just as a side note, you can't tell that somebody is demigender by looking at them. I mean, you can't really tell somebody is gay or lesbian or any of the other terms by looking at them, even if they do have more outward characteristics. That's also, at the end of the day, it's an assumption, unless you ask them personally. You just don't know. So I just wanted to point that out because I feel like a lot of demigender people probably experience a lot of misgendering and questions about their gender identity, just because they don't present all the time as an androgynous person would. So I think with this a lot of times you see that for these people that their binary pronouns are used more frequently than they prefer.
Speaker 1:When I was doing some research I don't know if you know Demi Lovato, yes, yeah. Well, she came out as non-binary a while back and she said and I'm using she because now she's going by her binary pronouns again and one of the main reasons why I guess I'll flux with the pronouns, but one of the reasons why they said they were going with their binary pronouns again is because they said they were just exhausted of explaining what they them meant yeah. So I guess I just bring that up to say. Don't make any assumptions, respect people's pronouns and their gender identity, and ask questions, because I think people, as tiring as it is for some people I mean Demi's a little bit of a different scenario just because they're famous, but maybe even people like us will experience something similarly with the constant questioning. But how do you feel about that? Do you feel like it's better to ask questions or do you think it's really exhausting for someone, or could have moments of just feeling like oh, nobody understands me.
Speaker 2:So a few things. One, I think a really important thing is to take a step back and remember don't judge a book by its cover. Take a step back and remember never judge a book by its cover. Never look at a person and think that you know basically anything. The only things that you can tell are the color of their skin. That's about all you've got, and when it comes to questions, I really genuinely think it all depends on how people ask.
Speaker 2:Perfect example is like I'm a really yeah, a perfect example is like I'm a really open person. I will answer just about anyone's insane, inane, randomly asked, not really properly prompted questions about what it is to be queer right, specifically for me. Mind you, I'm not going to be answering for every trans person when it comes to every queer person, obviously. But you know like, when it comes to my own experience, I'm a pretty open book, but there was one time where I almost clocked a bitch. I remember it vividly.
Speaker 2:I was sitting around with a group of friends and we were all drinking, we were all having fun and one of them brought someone new. It was his girlfriend. None of us had ever met her before and we were like, hey, how are you? She seemed sweet enough. We were hanging out all talking. We offered her a drink, she was sitting down, she was sitting to my right and my other friend was sitting to my left and my ex was somewhere floating about the evening. You know what I mean. And in the middle of me talking to, the person to my left is sipping my drink, having a conversation, she interrupts me and says so are you going to get the surgery?
Speaker 1:Oh my God, alcohol is involved.
Speaker 2:He knew my name and my pronouns, nothing else. We introduced ourselves with names and pronouns. She knew nothing else, so I told her my name and that my pronouns were he, him, and interrupted me in the middle of a conversation, to be like so are you going to get the surgeries?
Speaker 1:Nothing like not building rapport first, right, Like hey, let's get to know each other a little bit beyond hello.
Speaker 2:But that's how a lot of cis people can be. It can be very like. No, you've opened yourself up to telling me your trans. I have the right to ask about what's going on in your pants and what you plan to do about it.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:That is brutal line of salt bitch. I will punch you.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well wind up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's sort of those things that they don't even realize how invasive a question like that is. It makes me think back to the doctor who was speaking on the floor. I think she was Virginia, south Carolina, one of those states. You know what I mean. She was a trans femme doctor, physician who was speaking before the state senate about an anti-trans bill that was being passed. I think it was to ban care for minors or something like that. And in the middle of as she's introducing herself as she's, one of the senators asked her do you have a penis?
Speaker 1:That is mortifying. I have no words. I don't even know what to say. How do you teach somebody respect? One of my favorite things right. Right, let's see how do you teach that.
Speaker 2:Basic decency. No but honestly, her response was glorious. She held amazing composure better than I would have, because I would have straight looked him in the eyes and been like why do you need to know? Are you trying to hit? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Well, unfortunately, we have built resilience for that very reason, because we've been asked so many times in those ways, those very disrespectful ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like it's Cool.
Speaker 1:composure is not something that doesn't get worked up without a lot of practice. Yeah it's. The demi-gender identity isn't something new, you know. It's always existed. It's just that people are just finally finding the words to actually describe who they are. So just listen and be respectful. That's it. Be respectful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's all you gotta do. That's it. And be willing especially if you've got like a family member, someone who's close to you, that you wish to remain close to you, that you don't want that relationship to become distant and fractured do your own research. Be willing to look things up on your own. Google is free and it's a phenomenal resource. Do some research If you care about this person. Show them that you care. Actions speak louder than words. Show them that you give a shit by doing the research. If even one of like my extended family members had been bothered to do stuff like that, to do actual, genuine research, man, I might still have a functioning relationship with some of them.
Speaker 1:I think on this episode we're preaching to the choir though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's fair. It's just like oh, it's yeah.
Speaker 1:Just listening to you talk makes me think about when I'm in my office and I have a new patient come in, I do my research, I do a consult before they actually come in person in the office and I go over their entire health history. And a lot of times they let me know of other issues going on health-wise and it gives me an opportunity to do a deep dive into those things so that I can more and better understand them as a whole person. So when they come in for their exam I'm better equipped to answer questions and connect the dots for them, and not everybody does that. So I think you get compassionate and empathetic people in every aspect of life. But anyway, I think on this episode we might be preaching to the choir, who knows?
Speaker 2:That's a little unfortunate, but who knows? Fingers crossed maybe we're not, maybe people who need to hear that lesson will end up tuning an ear in and finding it before. Relationships can't be saved. Fingers crossed Because, remember y'all, there always is a point that I hate to say it, but it doesn't matter if you're blood, it doesn't matter how long they've known you. There's always going to be a point where too much is too much and you're done.
Speaker 1:Right, so do you want to go into demigirl?
Speaker 2:and share a little bit about that let's do it.
Speaker 2:Yes, so someone who identifies as a demigirl identifies with aspects of femininity or partially as a woman or girl, regardless of their assigned sex at birth. Once again, as we were previously stating, so yeah, so it's not fully identifying with femininity or as a woman or girl, but partially. You know, half or less or more. That can fall along a spectrum as well. Just because demi means half doesn't mean you know it's exactly 50-50, obviously for every single person. It's just. That's the direct Latin translation of demi and it made the most sense for the gender terminology.
Speaker 1:Right Could also be demi-woman, demifemale, demilady or whatever floats your boat.
Speaker 2:Yes, which is so cool, so cool.
Speaker 1:Super cool.
Speaker 2:And the Pride flag for demigirls was designed in 2015 by Tumblr user TransRance. Which fantastic name, Jealous.
Speaker 1:Love it.
Speaker 2:The exact meanings behind the colors were never really explained by the artist. However, much of the community attributed their own meanings, which are now broadly accepted. So pink is for femininity or womanhood, white is for agender or non-binary identities, and the two shades of gray that are on the demigirl pride flag are for the partial connectedness to gender or the gray areas surrounding gender.
Speaker 1:That's super cool, yeah. And then when we talk about demi-boy, it's someone who identifies with aspects of masculinity, are or partially so I got tongue tied or partially as a man or boy, once again, regardless of their assigned sex at birth, and some of the other terms that somebody could use demiguy, demiman, demimal I've seen demidude.
Speaker 2:That's my favorite.
Speaker 1:I love that too For females. I like demidude it. I didn't see that anywhere, but I just made it up.
Speaker 2:I love that. I also really like demilady. I don't know something about that. It does have a certain I don't know a genocide vibe to it. I really like.
Speaker 1:Totally, totally but demidude.
Speaker 2:Demidude reminds me of the guy that's standing there doing this to everything that someone's like tubular dude, tubular dude, like everything that's his thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love demidude.
Speaker 2:But the demiboy pride flag, just like the demigirl pride flag, was created in 2015 by Tumblr user trans rants and, again, that they did not assign explicit meanings to the colors of this flag, but allowed the community to attribute their own meanings to the colors which I personally love the blue symbolizes manhood or masculinity, the white symbolizes non-binary or agender identities, and the gray, both shades of which symbolize the partial connectedness to gender or gray areas surrounding gender, which I just love and I don't know. After learning more about demiboy, because it was one of those things I was on Tumblr in the 2000s, I've heard of demiboy, but it always kind of had this very anime boy filter over it in those days of Tumblr, like it always just looked like a certain body type that I could never fit.
Speaker 1:That's understandable.
Speaker 2:Especially since a lot of the art around demiboys in that time were of AMAB people and I, as an AFAB person, thought like, oh, I guess I can't be that because I could never actually be that, I don't got that, I don't got those parts. But learning more about it and realizing that it has nothing to do with your assigned sex at birth, it has to do with the way that you feel about your own connectedness to masculinity and femininity. I really, really, really like demiboy and I am definitely adding that as a little pin to a non-binary demiboy. I like that. I like that. I like that.
Speaker 1:I was kind of considering non-binary demigirl or demidudette. But one thing I was thinking about and I don't know if you feel this way, but because I love both my masculinity and femininity and sometimes even going out and presenting in public. I'm a lot of times androgynous but I also, for dates and things like that love to dress like a man and I just I get a kick out of it. It's just a lot of fun, almost like role play in a way. But the term demigirl or demilady or even demi-woman I think for some people that are only partially connected to that gender, may find that the word in the term itself, like demi-woman, accentuates the thing that they're only partially relating to. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:I do kind of see what you mean. Yeah, I do see what you mean. I think that just depends on the person. If you don't feel like, because of that, that, that identity connects with you, then that's not your thing and there's a different, non-binary identity out there for you that would be more connecting to what you're feeling. Honestly, what you're describing sounds a lot more like bi-gender. It's the idea of both genders, both at masculinity, femininity, man and woman, existing in combination inside of one person, one soul, one being.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I definitely like I feel like I have some exploration to do. I have to sit with some of this because I'm like again diving into the many deep layers of LGBTQ. Plus history, terminology, expansion, all these things, it's like, wow, okay, here's another aspect that I haven't considered yet, but I like Demigirl, I think that could totally fit for me, just visiting it for a second here, just because when I'm not androgynous, I am more feminine presenting.
Speaker 2:That's so fair. Honestly, the way one of my trans friends put it was he was like I don't feel like a man. He was like I'm not a man, I'm just a little guy. I'm just a little dude, I'm just a little guy. I'm just a little dude. I feel that I get that advice. I'm not a man, just a little guy. Just got my little pinwheel hat. It looks like a frog.
Speaker 1:That what you just said makes me think about something that I've been thinking about more recently, about how I think my ideal person that I like to work with in my office one of them, anyway is the Metro guy, kind of like receptive, because it's the masculine person that is more feminine and is more in tune with their emotions, so it's not like super macho dudes. You know what I mean. I'm willing to, obviously, work with anybody who's got a readiness to show up and do deep work, but I find that the men that I work with, or people that identify with being male, I find that I get along better with the metros, if you will.
Speaker 2:You're valid. Yeah, yeah, but I actually at one point years ago, I think I was like 13. I got my stuff at a bumper sticker that said I'm a lesbian and a man's body.
Speaker 1:I mean, do you think Metro is still an okay term to use, because technically, now that I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean it could. I'm gonna be so real with you. I have no idea if that's one of those terms that's like it could.
Speaker 1:Okay, you're not. I think we fall into the range of demiguy in a way, but I don't think that cis straight men are thinking in terms of queer identities. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, definitely not but you see what I'm saying, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do, especially, not of a certain generation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It is what it is.
Speaker 1:A subset of demiboy is demimasque, which we see used by people who don't feel comfortable using a more gender term like boy, dude or male.
Speaker 2:Would then demifem be able to be the?
Speaker 1:opposite version of that. Yes, I was gonna say the feminine equivalent, but I couldn't think of it Off the top of my head. That's why I started and stopped.
Speaker 2:No, you're so valid, but that's fascinating. I've never heard of demimasque, but at that point then, yeah, demifem would be the other side of that Turbotology's coin, that's really interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the subset Super cool right.
Speaker 2:It is very cool I love that.
Speaker 1:And just to mention that, the terms demigirl and demiguy were added to the AVEN gender definitions master list in December of 2010. And the AVEN acronym stands for Asexual Visibility and Education Network, so I thought that was pretty cool. And then, by October 2011, so not even a year later demigirl and demiguy had been added to the Gender Queer Identities and Terminology page of a really popular blog entitled Gender Queerid. So it's G-E-N-D-E-R-Q-U-E-E-R-I-D.
Speaker 2:That sounds so familiar. I feel like I used to read that when I was 17-ish.
Speaker 1:Like at some point I read something from that blog that sounds so familiar, so familiar, right, yeah, no, I hear you, but yeah, that's pretty much all I got. Do you have anything else to say on?
Speaker 2:Well, I just honestly, I just think it's so fascinating how little even LGBTQ people know about how big our umbrella is.
Speaker 1:It's a big fucking umbrella, so fucking vast.
Speaker 2:Like there's a reason, there's a plus at the end of that acronym.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no shit.
Speaker 2:It's a big umbrella.
Speaker 1:That's why, whenever I write it down or I'm speaking, I always I'm very careful to include the plus every time, for that reason that's so valid that is so so valid.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to lie. I am definitely not quite that careful about including the plus every single time, but I try.
Speaker 1:I really do try you will.
Speaker 2:I'm just kind of dumb sometimes.
Speaker 1:So you want to jump to the fun fact?
Speaker 2:Absolutely I would love to. So this one's kind of a doozy y'all. I definitely recommend doing some deeper research into this one because I could have written a paper on this fun fact.
Speaker 2:The Virginia court all the way back in 1692 recorded the first instance of gender ambiguity among the colonists. A servant named Thomas or Thomasine Hall is officially declared by the governor to be both a man and woman. After years of egregious legal and social battles, they were ordered to wear clothing for both a man and a woman. To point them out as other. Thomasine was born intersex and spent much of their childhood being raised as a woman and then spent some of their adulthood as a man to join the army with their older brother and then went back to living as a woman and doing housework as a servant.
Speaker 2:It led to this insane, full blown colonist wide legal battle in Virginia where poor Thomasine was assaulted numerous times for bodily inspections so that the townspeople could figure out if they were a man or a woman because they were intersex. It was very hard to tell just by physical examination of their genitalia. So yeah, it's a fascinating history, but a truly, truly tragic life story of someone who really just wanted to live and at every turn was bombarded with nonsense, but did end up being the first recorded gender queer colonist in the US. Obviously in nowhere near the first gender queer person in the US, but the first gender queer recorded colonist.