Have you ever sipped a cocktail and thought about the journey of LGBTQ+ marketing in corporate America? We're peeling back the layers of history, from the mid-70s when queer folks first shimmered on the radar of alcohol brands, to the powerful 1994 IKEA commercial that broke molds by featuring a gay couple. Alongside the narrative of these pioneering moments, we unravel the nuanced dance of media representation, where advocacy groups like GLAAD have stepped in to shape the narrative, and seemingly trivial items like a stuffed shark from IKEA have become beloved community symbols.
This episode isn't just a history lesson; it's also an homage to the laughter and literature that have soothed and strengthened our community. We get personal, reflecting on an Amazon Kindle ad that touched queer hearts everywhere and the importance of supporting LGBTQ+ authors and bookstores like Tiny Raccoon Books. The conversation takes a turn to discuss the complexity of navigating a world filled with heteronormative assumptions and the sometimes painful experiences within our own diverse community. As your host, I share anecdotes that underscore the importance of representation, the beauty of diversity, and the power of a good chuckle.
As we wrap up, the spotlight turns to the thorny issue of corporate allyship and the double-edged sword of Pride Month marketing. With a critical eye, we dissect 'pinkwashing' and celebrate authentic support, sharing stories from my own life as a transgender individual navigating corporate spaces. We question the role of corporations in Pride and look forward to the power of community-led initiatives, DIY Pride merchandise, and the authenticity that comes from grassroots efforts. Together, we dive into the potential of hope as a catalyst for change against the backdrop of a capitalist society, all while staying mindful of the personal and societal challenges that continue to shape our lives.
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Have you ever sipped a cocktail and thought about the journey of LGBTQ+ marketing in corporate America? We're peeling back the layers of history, from the mid-70s when queer folks first shimmered on the radar of alcohol brands, to the powerful 1994 IKEA commercial that broke molds by featuring a gay couple. Alongside the narrative of these pioneering moments, we unravel the nuanced dance of media representation, where advocacy groups like GLAAD have stepped in to shape the narrative, and seemingly trivial items like a stuffed shark from IKEA have become beloved community symbols.
This episode isn't just a history lesson; it's also an homage to the laughter and literature that have soothed and strengthened our community. We get personal, reflecting on an Amazon Kindle ad that touched queer hearts everywhere and the importance of supporting LGBTQ+ authors and bookstores like Tiny Raccoon Books. The conversation takes a turn to discuss the complexity of navigating a world filled with heteronormative assumptions and the sometimes painful experiences within our own diverse community. As your host, I share anecdotes that underscore the importance of representation, the beauty of diversity, and the power of a good chuckle.
As we wrap up, the spotlight turns to the thorny issue of corporate allyship and the double-edged sword of Pride Month marketing. With a critical eye, we dissect 'pinkwashing' and celebrate authentic support, sharing stories from my own life as a transgender individual navigating corporate spaces. We question the role of corporations in Pride and look forward to the power of community-led initiatives, DIY Pride merchandise, and the authenticity that comes from grassroots efforts. Together, we dive into the potential of hope as a catalyst for change against the backdrop of a capitalist society, all while staying mindful of the personal and societal challenges that continue to shape our lives.
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Want to see the video? Check us out on YouTube.
So in today's episode we're going to be talking about the evolution of LGBTQ plus marketing in corporate America after the aftermath of the 1969 Stonewall riots, which marked the beginning of corporate America marketing efforts targeting queer communities.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So finally, with the Stonewall riots happening and stuff like that, corporate America started realizing that there actually was a market in queer America that there were people to market to. So, starting with the mid to late 70s, it began with, obviously, the spirits, your alcohols, your liquors, your beers. It just made sense, due to nightclubs and bars being such prominent queer safe spaces Stonewall itself was a bar is a bar to this day. It just made sense for liquor companies to be the first on that bandwagon. This started with companies advertising and LGBTQ magazines and newspapers. Companies like Budweiser, miller Light, coors Light and Jagermeister were very frequent ones throughout the 70s and stuff like that. So pretty funny considering recent history, with certain some of those brands that are owned by a certain some mega conglomerate. Anne Heinzer, looking at you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we have a local to us actually in New York. We have the Brooklyn brewery over here. So there are allies. We have Budweiser Miller, Light Coors, Light Jager is a big one and absolute.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolute Absolute is still very prominent in the queer community to this day, but absolute finally joined the bandwagon in 1981. And we're one of the few advertisers to begin advertising during the onset of the AIDS epidemic. Because you know, it was right around 1981 to 1983 that science really started figuring out what this virus was and connecting it more to gay people than any other population. That was also the same time that absolute stepped up, advertised to the queer community and continued to advertise to the queer community throughout the AIDS epidemic, when a lot of other companies stepped back and the queer community in and of itself was ostracized by a lot of society as a whole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the cool thing about absolute is they continue to work with GLAAD, which, for those of you who don't know, it's the gay and lesbian alliance against defamation. And what this organization is it's? Basically, it's an LGBTQ plus media advocacy organization. It was also founded in the mid 80s around about 1985. And their mission is to promote understanding, acceptance and also equality for LGBTQ plus people through media advocacy. So their job is to monitor media representations of LGBTQ plus people and issues. And why this is so important is because they advocate for fair and accurate portrayals of LGBTQ plus people and voices in the media.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:So cool.
Speaker 2:Say, I didn't really know too too much about GLAAD. That is really really interesting and I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the cool things is that they actually promote LGBTQ plus visibility as well, and why I feel like they're super, super important is because they challenge negative stereotypes and misinformation, so they make sure by working with media professionals and corporations and other influencers, they ensure that the stories are told authentically and respectfully and that people are depicted in a fair way. So, yeah, they're super important, yeah.
Speaker 2:Say, and then I think this is really really cool in 1994. So obviously throughout the AIDS epidemic you didn't really see too many advertisers reaching out to queer people. Absolute continued to. But from there it kind of took a while for other companies to jump on the bandwagon. But with the 90s you saw sitcoms like Ellen, where Ellen DeGeneres herself as a real life person and a character in the show came out as a lesbian. Well, ellen is not exactly the best person we've come to learn. You know that was a pivotal moment for queer people in media and right around there.
Speaker 2:In 1984, the Swedish furniture company IKEA did something pretty cool and they became the first major corporation to run a US TV commercial featuring a gay couple. The commercial only aired after 9 30 pm and in New York and DC. And one of the reasons I think that's really cool is because something that's prominent now in specifically the trans community and the gender nonconforming community is something called the blah, and the blah is a stuffed shark from IKEA that just so happens to kind of be colored the trans pride flag Like it is basically the same colors and there's a joke that says if you don't get a blah after a certain point, you're going to get your trans card revoked.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, hey, it's kind of like we're coding in a way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. It kind of isn't like we're coding in, like in, just in products and stuff like that, but it was definitely accidental. But knowing that IKEA has that history just makes that even more special and cool and makes me want a blah even more. Don't come for me. I know my trans card is going to get revoked. I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was a. That was a pretty bold and progressive move on IKEA's part. And you're right, they did have a lot of backlash, including boycotts and bomb threats to certain IKEA stores. So that's why that commercial was only aired after 9 pm in very select cities, because that's what they had to do and that's super telling of the challenges and the risks that were associated with adding in the LGBTQ plus representation in the mainstream media during that time.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean even still you see it with places like Target. I mean Target's got death threats, bombing threats and stuff like that. This past pride. There were many instances like that this past pride, but unfortunately because of specifically the bomb threats the calls to boycotts were definitely bad for the bottom dollar and stuff like that, but because specific stores were getting rather credible bomb threats, the ad actually only ended up having about like a two month stint on television in general. Like they pulled that ad so fast. Even when it was on it only ran for short stints of time only in two cities or states. From there it was completely and totally just wiped from television because of the ferocious backlash that IKEA is a company faced.
Speaker 1:So do they have any commercials on TV now with LGBTQ plus representation?
Speaker 2:I believe they do. Ikea now I believe has since then have added more commercials with queer representation. But I know that that specific ad did not have a long run, like it went down very, very quickly for the safety of the employees, which again in 1994 versus 2024, you kind of can't help but be like, ok, yeah, you know, kind of. You know it's much easier to look at Target in 2024 more critically than to look at IKEA in 1994 with the same kind of critical eye.
Speaker 1:Exactly, at the end of the day, it was Pivotal for advertising to make that shift. It was kind of like a signal like, hey, we have to start making this shift toward more and more inclusive, more diverse marketing strategies, and I think that's really important to take away from what had happened. Even though their response wasn't exactly what I would call today, like you said, 20 years later, the best way to respond to it. But in the big picture it did. It was a call to action in a way did its best. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It did its best. Yeah, so also in the mid-9 days, a very specific Japanese car brand that I'm sure we all know and love, subaru. They were in the toilet, they were having a big old struggle bus just chugging down the road. They basically ended up having to replace their entire advertising department, not once, but twice. The first time they changed their advertising department they went with this hip young advertising department or company and it did it bombed the campaign completely and totally bombed. It was a horrible, horrible ad campaign that just did not go anywhere. So they fired that company and went and did their own market research where they figured out who's actually buying super-rues. And they found out through this market research that one of the main Buyers of super-rues were lesbians. It was single women households who, when interviewed, were discovered to be lesbians. And Subaru realized through this market research they realized that it was lesbians. And it's fascinating because this becomes the first time in US corporate history that market research is done specifically on the queer community, even if it's just lesbians. It was advertising specifically for the LGBTQ community. In any sense, no one had ever tried to market research for specifically that community before not like on the ground Research research. Subaru was the first to be like let's actually figure this out. And I think that's pretty cool because that's how you end up with Probably some of the most memorable ad lines I've ever heard in my life.
Speaker 2:These are incredible. They started out in some of their earlier ads with some gay vague Advertising. So gay vague is what a lot of advertisers were doing in the mid 90s. It was basically where they would elude at a gay couple being in the ad, but do it in a way where straight audiences could very easily say oh their roommates, oh their friends, oh their brothers, oh there, this, that or the other thing. It it's gay vague. It's kind of like queer baiting, but for ads. You know, like queer baiting, but in a much, much, much smaller. Very strange. I thought that was very odd, that there was like an ad version of gay baiting. Yeah, yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some examples of this. They had ad lines like it's not a choice, it's the way we're built and At least we've got our priority straight, which also, like you said, it resonated with the LGBTQ plus audiences because they're lines that we use and we understand. Also, lesburu is the nickname that Subaru earned. That was coined by the lesbian community because it was so popular among lesbian customers. So the other cool thing I wanted to say about Subaru's advertising campaigns Some of them included cars with license plates that reference LGBTQ plus popular destinations like P-town mass and Like lesbian or LGBTQ plus pop culture icons like Zina the warrior princess. That's like an icon for so many lesbians. I thought that was pretty cool. I.
Speaker 2:Love that so much. I saw it I was like that's a credit, the Zina lover license plate, that's so cool and they released like ad campaigns, with the cars in the ads Having those license plates, as little you know.
Speaker 2:Call outs before releasing the slightly more bold. It's not a choice. We're built like this style ads. They did the little. Hey, let's see how this goes. If we just do a license plate, will they get it? And they and we did. Oh, we did, oh, the community 100% got the memo dip in their toes in little by little, right, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And then you have the the camping themed ads. You know, because in their market research they found out that lesbians are part of their interests and lifestyle. A lot of them responded with camping or outdoor adventures and exploration, and so there's a lot of camping themed ads to market to that community which is it's just peak.
Speaker 2:That's perfect, yeah, I really liked the one. It loves camping dogs and long-term commitment. Too bad, it's only a car Like Subaru.
Speaker 1:Super amazing, though respect we really went okay.
Speaker 1:It's funny when you can add humor into your Advertising, though you know it gets. It sets apart your brand and your personality from everybody else. It's kind of like the purple cow concept. You know what? What makes you the purple cow? In the whole sea of brown cows? Everybody knows a cow's brown if you ask anybody. What sets you apart, what makes you the purple cow? So I like that because it adds to their branding voice. Their branding personality, makes them a little funnier and people respond to that. They respond to funny, they respond to storytelling. So not just things that they can relate to in their lives, but things that actually reach out and Make a person feel like you're connecting with them.
Speaker 2:It's great, yeah, great yeah. I definitely think Subaru did a really good job with that. And then it brings us into the 2000s and stuff like that, which is an era that I remember being a young Queer kid or questioning and such and things. And I remember one commercial that I was reminded of, actually while researching this episode, that I literally what. Just while reading about it, I started crying. It was for so stupid.
Speaker 2:It was for the Amazon Kindle, the paper light, I think it was what it was called the teeny, tiny Kindle, like that really, really little Kindle that's super easy to just bring with, and it's two people sitting on a beach, a man and a woman Talking about the book they're reading because I think they were both reading the same book or something and she says, oh, my husband's bringing me my drink and he says, so is mine. And then two men walk up Holding drinks and this was in 2011. This was before gay marriage was federally legal. I remember watching that commercial on Repeat on YouTube when it aired, and it was just one of those things that like it really meant a lot, you know, like it really just meant a lot to to see Love that I am slowly starting to recognize was a love that I identified with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:Amazon commercial.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I was gonna say Amazon has included commercials and print ads with LGBTQ plus couples and family since the early 2010s and they're known for actively supporting LGBTQ plus literature, and they supported an initiative called Amazon reads it or the Amazon reads program, which highlights LGBTQ plus authors and books. So I was like, wow, amazon. I mean I would love to, and I do support smaller book companies over the big corporate ones any day.
Speaker 2:It's always best just side note, as an aspiring author who is researching the publishing industry and kind of like dipping my toes in the waters of figuring it out it is always best to buy if you love an author and you want to support that author to the best of your ability.
Speaker 2:It is always best to get the book either from their website personally, from like their, however they are personally selling it, or from a local small end bookshop, because they will always get the author a majority of the profits from the book, whereas Amazon usually ends up keeping the majority of the profits from the book. So if you want to support that author and genuinely make sure they are getting majority of the profits for the work that they put in, it's best to get that book from other sources. Even Barnes Noble is a little better than Amazon about making sure that authors are properly imbursed and paid for their work. So, yeah, I love, I appreciate that Amazon's doing a lot for queer writers. I hope that they continue to and do more and stuff like that, especially as a queer writer who writes queer literature. But I got to call it like I see it, and please pay your writers more, because girl y'all wouldn't have any books if it wasn't for us.
Speaker 1:Exactly, y'all would just have.
Speaker 2:AI nonsense if it wasn't for us. So pay us more please.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's actually a local bookstore here on Long Island called Tiny Raccoon Books and they just opened a few months ago and you can buy directly from them. But you can also purchase audio books from them, which I think is super cool, and if they don't have something in stock, then they will get it for you. But it helps to put money back into their company, even if it's a small percentage. So if they don't have it in stock, they will find it for you and I. Just they're making themselves super relevant by providing all the services that the big corporate places are known to provide, just because of convenience and things. People normally go to them because of that reason and they don't understand or realize that the smaller companies can also provide those same services. So I think that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I love the name. I love that name.
Speaker 1:So cool right.
Speaker 2:That plastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just so you know, there's a ton, a ton and ton and ton of LGBTQ plus titles in that bookstore. He does a really good job of keeping it stocked with queer literature. I was blown away when I first walked in there. I was like, wow, this is like turning a new leaf for a small business that is owned by a heterosexual couple. It's amazing.
Speaker 2:That's very, very cool. That is very, very, very cool. Well, just you know, appearing heterosexual, one of them could be bi.
Speaker 1:Appearing? Yeah, absolutely yeah, never know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, true. So if people who look at Santi and I, they see a straight couple.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was gonna say we should talk about that in an episode.
Speaker 2:That would be. I would love to be able to go into that, because that happens really often with the two of us, where they assume we're a straight couple, even though I am not the woman. I am not the woman by any means.
Speaker 1:Further to that, they also get discriminated against by the queer community. I have noticed If I mean I've seen this with friends people in the queer community that end up dating and looking like a heterosexual couple, or if they're in a heterosexual couple, they get a lot of slack because they're like oh, I thought you were in the queer community, but now you sold out, you're in a heterosexual relationship now and it's like no, they're still queer, they're just. They just happen to be in a monogamous relationship with it's a man and a woman, but that doesn't make them less queer. So anyway, we digress.
Speaker 2:It's actually really funny if there's a TikTok sound that reminds me of, because it made me laugh out loud. It was this guy on a podcast and he was like listen, I love bisexual women and their boyfriends and a bunch of bisexual women keep stitching it and being like no, and then their boyfriends are like in frame or like calling for them or that's funny, that's fucking hilarious.
Speaker 1:It makes me cry a lot. It makes me cry a lot.
Speaker 2:I love it when the queer community takes things that you know little more harmful parts of our own community and specifically the straight community has used against parts of us and kind of just turns it into our own jokes, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you have to laugh at that stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that's something that a community that I'm a part of is capable of doing. I don't know that's really cool to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because sometimes I personally struggle to do that. So I feel like sometimes when I'm able to see it, it becomes a lot easier to just kind of like do it naturally. At least I used to struggle a lot more than I definitely do now and I think embracing queerness and becoming more involved in queer leftist spaces have, you know, kind of opened me up to being a bit more comfortable with turning my personal pain into something that I can laugh at, in poking at my own bruises. You know I felt uncomfortable poking at my own bruises while allowing other people to poke them. You know I would be okay with other people making jokes about my assault, but I wasn't okay joking about it. That's not cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I you know what I mean Like it's my bruise to poke at, that's my joke to make, not anyone else's joke to make. And I definitely think that that's something that exploring more queer leftist spaces has really helped me be able to blossom into. Is that whole idea of whose bruises are whose to poke at?
Speaker 1:Right, so that's valid to think about. I was gonna say there's a difference between laughter therapy and just being intentional about, like you said, who's poking at the bruises and whether or not they're healed and to what extent. Do you know what I mean, cause a lot of people. I mean I wish we had more laughter therapy, because the idea of it in and of itself sounds amazing. Where we don't laugh enough, we were in a fight or flight all the time and we just we don't laugh enough.
Speaker 1:And I feel like if we were to get into that deep, deep belly laughing, I can't control it. I'm crying out of my eyes, you know, for whatever it is 10 minutes straight and you just get into a laughing fit. How much better do you feel after having a laughing fit, you know, and I just wish we learned how to use that as more of a coping mechanism so that we can heal past all the trauma faster, so that you know we can just be more lighter about it. And then when you add that layer of other people poking at our wounds, it's it doesn't feel as bad, cause it's like, okay, you know, they're kind of healed.
Speaker 2:I also think there's a whole idea around feeling your emotions and this is this is evolving into something way heavier because it's a very white supremacist built idea the idea of decorum, like there was a time and a place, like no, no, if you need to cry, fucking cry. If you need to scream, scream. If you need to get it out, get it out, bro. The fact that there was at least some type of felt sense of decorum around the way I should have been acting at my father's funeral you know what I mean the fact that I felt weird, screaming the way I was because I just had to get it out. The fact that I had people being like, let me calm down, like no, there is no decorum here, fuck your decorum, my father's dead. We need to let people feel, and it feels like we've just completely and totally stunted our ability to really feel anything joy, all of the spectrum of feeling. It all just feels some kind of stunted and I almost guarantee you you dig into that deep enough. Capitalism is actually to blame.
Speaker 1:But like I don't, have the.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't really have the energy to really dig into that, but it's just so fascinating Cause like it feels like so much has been capped off for the sake of decorum, and I personally can't stand that. It's fascinating to me. The human experience is so vast and we have tried to boil it down to be something so simple, and it was never meant to be. It's never meant to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd love to unpack that. So what do you know about Ben and Jerry's?
Speaker 2:Actually funny enough. Not as much as I should. I feel like I know they were pretty involved in when same sex rights was legalized. I remember something about they were lobbying opposite of a Christian organization or something like that. They lobbied a heavy amount of money to Congress to try to actually get marriage equality through to the Supreme Court or I remember there'd be something along those lines. But I was in the process of going into my senior year of high school and had a lot of personal stuff going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally understand. Yeah, as far as I understand, they've been pretty vocal in supporting LGBTQ plus rights and I know that they featured same sex couples in their advertising campaigns too. They've been actively targeting our community since the late 1990s and I guess, as far as I understand, they still are, which I think is cool. Some of the things that they have featured are, like I said, the LGBTQ plus couples, and then they released a limited edition flavors with LGBTQ plus themes, so one of them was called Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough. We Woke Up Like this and that was in support of LGBTQ plus rights. So, not to go down like a deep dive about everything that they've ever done, but I just thought that one was like the cutest.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, that's fantastic. I also think that's very cute and, yeah, I know that they've been very vocally wise on social media and stuff like that for a while before. It was quote unquote cool to be pro gay. You know they have been actively okay with the community. It was. It was Barnes and Noble. At one point they were having either Tyler Oakley's book or, if it was the, this book is gay book. It was one of their LGBTQ books they were having. In general, barnes and Noble, I do feel like, is along the lines of major corporation, really good about having LGBTQ sections that are set up year round. They'll have tables and stuff like that. They'll have LGBTQ books just mixed into the sections in the fiction section and they were not separated as like LGBTQ fantasy, like we're just in the fantasy area, which is pretty nice, you know, to just kind of like be integrated.
Speaker 2:The others exactly Right. Um see, in general they're really good about that and I know that when they have people coming to their stores for like book signings and stuff like that, they're really good about making sure that things are safe and that they're done well. I think Mercury Stardust is mainly going to small time bookstores, or was mainly going to small time bookstores.
Speaker 1:Mm. Hmm, I know there's a little bit of controversy too around Target because of some of the things that happened recently with Pinkwashing.
Speaker 2:So Pinkwashing I definitely feel like something we should do an entire episode about at you know some point. But yeah, 100% Target is Pinkwashing. That's what they're doing with their Pride Merge at this point and this past year they proved it to us. So the difference between doing Pinkwashing and actually supporting the queer community as a corporation is if you Pinkwash, that means that you're just for one time a year, usually during Pride Month, you're releasing a line of clothing of whatever.
Speaker 1:Rainbows.
Speaker 2:Yeah For designed for queer people. They're designed for their money, right, but outside of that line of merch, you aren't doing any actual work for the queer community Period. You're just not. You don't actually stick to your guns from that point forward. Prove that that's what they were doing. Because they were faced with backlash for having a Pride Section that included Art About Trans People, and they immediately removed the Art About Trans People. They immediately just cowered to the bigots. They immediately just took a step back and said nope, you're right, trans people don't belong here. Absolutely Correct, we'll only that yep, and that's you know. It shows us that from there, if y'all can't do something as simple as keeping the trans merch on the shelf, how do we expect you to do anything else? How do we expect you to actually be there for us if the going gets tough? How do we expect you to do anything if the public climate shifts when it comes to the views on queer people?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it takes a lot more energy, effort and courage to actually step into a role of advocacy, which is, like I said, it takes a lot more of that than to just keep something on a shelf. But I heard back in the early 2000s they started offering same-sex partner benefits, and so that's why I wanted to bring that up, because it seems like you know, 20 years ago they started getting on the bandwagon of, okay, we're going to help support this community. But then as they evolved and things unfolded, it was like what do you?
Speaker 2:Once it got tough to you know, really tough. Once it wasn't just behind the scenes stuff and yeah, and even as someone who worked at Target, as a trans person, yeah, how was that experience Mediocre? Yeah, exactly, great, not in a right home adult you know like.
Speaker 2:No, it's not like they dead named me or anything like that, but they definitely weren't all making sure that my pronouns are being done right. It's not like I was able to get my pronouns on my badge or anything like that. To make that easier, I was positioned in the store in an area that was colloquially known to be the area where the girls worked, especially the ones that couldn't lift a lot, because, you know, I am tiny. So it was a bit of a setup for, like, of course, I'm going to get misgendered here. Yeah, yeah, like I'm not surprised.
Speaker 1:I think that's the easiest thing to do is to misgender.
Speaker 2:Exactly no, 100%, 100% and yeah, this was 2016. I think this was a while. This was a bit ago. This was still in the early days of people being like what is trans? What's that? What is any of that? So I try to give grace. They definitely did. They definitely did their best and I loved my certain ones of my co-workers. A bunch of my co-workers were great, actually, but once I explained to them and once I had the conversation, they were great. It just kind of sucked that I had to go around and put myself at risk having that conversation with a bunch of people separately rather than having a resource to go to. That made that conversation any kinds of easier or safer for me. Like there was nothing like that. I just had to correct everyone's pronouns when I felt like it. And well, you know, that's just kind of what it is to be trans. If you want to be a corporation, that's hey, we're an ally. Be a fucking ally. Don't just talk the talk, walk the walk. Be an ally. Have the tough conversations, make the tough decisions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Along with what you were saying about having to tell all your co-workers and that most of them are really cool.
Speaker 1:You're right, that is a risk that you did take.
Speaker 1:I think that if a company is going to take a stance and a stand for something, then they need like you said, they need to follow it through. So, for example, target offering benefits to same-sex couples. Back in the early 2000s they should have continued that forward with getting the inclusivity training that's offered nowadays, and maybe back then they didn't have it as extensively as they do today, but they could have made an effort into finding out what that entailed and having those resources be available for their employees and incorporating some of that stuff into their language for new employees or for conversations to customers or between employee to employer, whatever that looks like, instead of not seeking that out. And then it almost looks like they targeted the queer community by offering certain merchandise, because as soon as it was questioned, it was taken off the shelves. Okay, so which one is it? You know you can't offer same-sex benefit to show that you support the queer community but then not do your due diligence and start incorporating the inclusivity trainings and resources into your place of business. Period. End of story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, if you're going to be an ally, you have to be an ally, even when that's not an easy thing to do.
Speaker 1:That's what it is yeah, that puts you at risk.
Speaker 2:As you don't know, I worked with a lot of older people, rather large men. I'm not trying to die. I'm 4'11" y'all, I'm not big.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I am a sprite, I would not get very far, so I wasn't really trying to play that game and it sucked that I ended up getting put in a situation where that game kind of had to get played and thankfully it ended well, but it definitely could have ended a lot worse. I would say an example of a company this past year that actually did it right, because I mean we got plenty of examples of people who did it wrong. We got Target, we got I can't even remember their fucking name Bud Light, who was owned by Anheuser.
Speaker 2:Who owns? I think it's owned by Anheuser. Is that the name?
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anheuser, they own Budweiser, they own fucking so much. They have been a partner to GLAD since the 80s, since, like, glad was a thing as long as Absolute and Anheuser were all a partner to GLAD for the same amount of time. And yet Budweiser and Bud Light and they fucked up so bad. Oh, they messed up so bad. They messed up so bad. Another perfect example of pinkwashing they offered a partnership to trans influencer Dylan Mulvaney, who I adore, and of course she accepted because girl, get that bag, yes. And they sent her little personalized cans with her face on it and it was so cute and she drank it. Which girl stopped lying to us and telling us that you like Bud Light? It tastes like piss.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Just stop. I'm not saying that she doesn't like beer. I'm saying that if you're saying you like beer and you like Bud Light, something's not right there. It tastes like piss. That's like saying you like yingling it tastes like piss.
Speaker 1:Facts.
Speaker 2:Beyond my beer nonsense. They sent her these cans that she posted about and they did a whole thing. And she got met with, as she has stated, the largest tidal wave of some of the most vitriolic transphobic hatred she has ever seen in her life. And Bud Light did nothing. Bud Light did not once reach out to her. They didn't even contact her to make sure she was okay. They did nothing, they just dropped her and walked away. So buy better beer y'all.
Speaker 1:It's disgusting Go get better beer, better beer. It's disgusting, but I'm not surprised.
Speaker 2:No, not even a little bit Sucks. But on the flip side of the coin, there were definitely brands that did good this year that were faced with similar levels of backlash that Target and Bud Light received but did not bend under that backlash. A perfect example is North Face. A North Face this year partnered with Trans Activist and Drag Queen Pateona, I think is her name. She's phenomenal. She goes by she, they pronouns. I love her. She's great. She did recently a video with North Face of skiing gaze. She's still working with North Face. Mind you, this wasn't just a pride thing. She is still doing things with them, talking about getting queers out in nature. It's so cool. It's like this whole campaign they did, talking about how nature is queer and how queers need to be out in nature because nature has been gate kept for way too long.
Speaker 2:We all deserve it, so yeah, I think, it's great.
Speaker 2:And North Face was faced with very similar levels of backlash as the other two companies. But rather than leaving Pateona in the dust and dropping her as the face and moving on, they stuck by her side. They made sure she was okay through the torades of hate. They made sure that her address wasn't getting leaked, that she wasn't being put in harm's way, as Dylan was. They made sure she was good and they continue working with her to this day. Like I said, I literally saw a video just the other day from either her or North Face's official, tiktok, about getting a bunch of drag queens on the ski slopes and it made me laugh until I cried. It was so good.
Speaker 1:That laughter therapy, it's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so North Face is a perfect example of how to do it right. Petsmart is another really good example about how to do it right. My partner actually works there and it's great. They offer specific badges that can be worn by their employees year round that show their names and pronouns on the badge, so you can just have that at any point, at any time you want it, not just for Pride Month. You can get it. It's really nice to see. It's a really cool, open environment. At the very least, I know what the one he works at there's not any issues. And PetSmart in general, on the front lines of their corporate side, they didn't back down when they had just this past year they had the cutest dog toys with the Trans Pride flag and stuff like that, and they just kept doing it. They kept doing their own thing. They got the usual Twitter photo of one of their dog toys, boycott PetSmart and it did nothing. They just kept floating along.
Speaker 1:And you just reminded me of when we started using Squadcast, which is the video hosting for podcasting by Descript, and soon as I logged on, it was like name pronouns and I was like, okay, I don't know what their stance is with the queer community, but that's a good start, I'd say so that's nice to see. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I will say this past Pride has raised a lot of concerns along the lines of how queer people are viewed in the marketing and corporate space. This year 2024's marketing and review calls and such basically they noticed a 40% decline over years prior in any mentions of pride month or pride month, merch or anything to do with marketing for pride. So it would seem that because of last year's events with target and with Anheuser-Busch, we are probably going to see the corporate sponsored pride start to struggle a little bit, and that's one of the reasons why I love pride is very beautiful, has a lot of strong history. I personally feel like, because it has been so corporate eyes, it's almost lost its original meaning and I really appreciate the fact that there is a separate pride parade that happens on the same day that is specifically dedicated to queer liberation and doesn't take corporate sponsors there.
Speaker 2:It's a protest. It's still a protest for them. You know what I mean. It's not a yay, we won fun time parade, here's our corporate money. It's still a protest because we still haven't won. Trans people are still being murdered. We still have a long way to go. It's one of those things where I definitely think with this pride, keep your eyes peeled because we're going to see a shift.
Speaker 1:It's going to be a little weird this year it's time to pivot now and get back to the grassroots and the original meanings of everything.
Speaker 2:Queers supporting queers. We have to get back to coming back to our own and to ourselves. Make your own. But I made this jacket. I literally got a pack of buttons and I stitched the non binary pride flag on my lapel in buttons. Make your own pride, merch. Get creative. There's the. We've already made enough shit for this planet to have to figure out once we're gone.
Speaker 1:Make your own, I'm with it.
Speaker 2:Get a group of people together, like a week before your pride parade, and y'all come together with all the art supplies that you all have already together any old clothes you don't want anymore and make your own big party, pride merch party and make your own. Sounds like so much fun. I'm probably going to be doing that actually.
Speaker 1:I'm still in my own idea, speaking of sponsoring pride events and things like that. I know Starbucks started to sponsor pride parades and events like back in the early 2000s, but I think they kind of went south right.
Speaker 2:Right. So Starbucks is one of many businesses that actually I do not know how many businesses we talked about today are a part of this outside of Starbucks. Starbucks is one of many businesses that is being boycotted in the name of Palestine. From the river to the sea. Palestine will be free. Yeah, starbucks is one of the one of the businesses being boycotted because at one point, their union they also had a lot of issues previously to being boycotted for Palestine with like union busting and shit like that, which is never good but they're there. One of their unions Posted I can't even remember what it was at this point, but it was basically a pro Palestinian thing linked to Starbucks. It was like a fan art of the Starbucks mermaid or something like that and saying like free Palestine, or you know, and it's ceasefire now, things like that. And Starbucks corporate punished this union for posting pro Palestinian content in their name and also has been donating to Israel since. So they are being boycotted in the name of a free Palestine. Ceasefire now, ceasefire yesterday, ceasefire tomorrow, ceasefire forever.
Speaker 1:I'm sitting here just I get it because the whole point of this episode was to talk about how we've evolved into, I guess, corporate businesses supporting us in a way that's authentic and real, and I feel like the more we talk about it, the more we realize, okay, these companies used to be allies, but now that we are evolving and unpacking so much within our own identities, you know like there's there's conversation around pronouns. Now there's conversations about Gender identity. There's conversation and obviously the two together right, because they're related there's more conversation. There's so much conversation now happening and there's terminology to put with all these things that are evolving. And it's like, now more than ever, like we're supposed to be celebrating but we're still in protest because I feel like the more we evolve, it's like the harder it gets for people to just stand in what they say, they stand for and support, and so, as a result, we're getting through this episode and it's like I thought they were an ally. Fuck, we lost another one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think what it is. It's.
Speaker 1:It's almost better to never have been an ally, you know, yeah, chick fall I never an ally, right like? You know what those motherfuckers stood for from the beginning. They were like no, screw gay people. We know we don't take them. You know that's better than saying that you do support us and then throwing in a towel when it when it gets a little hard.
Speaker 2:No, 100%, absolutely, because the very least doesn't look hypocritical. But I also think even in one of the articles I was reading, there was an advertising executive who said, every time the topic was broached about, do we publicly support queer people or not, there was the fear of For every, how many queer people do you gain versus 100 homophobes that you lose? Are we worth it? That's always how it's going to be viewed in a capitalistic society. We cannot expect true allyship from people who will only ever see us for what we have to give them and nothing more. We can only expect allyship from those in our direct community, and that's why the idea of community building and Mutual aid and working with the people around you and having that strong social foundation that humans need Is so much more important than having a corporation on your side. And that's the thing is. The corporations know that. They know that it's more powerful for us to have each other than for us to have them. Why do you think they'd rather we have them?
Speaker 2:Exactly there's more of us.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say we completely outnumber them completely and we're just waiting for them to die off. Yeah, we're just waiting for them to die off as the truth of it, because the people that refuse to evolve and accept nobody's gonna want to work with them and they're just gonna get old and be alone and die.
Speaker 2:Something that has been filling me with some hope recently is there's a video that's making the rounds on tick tock Of this woman saying, after the revolution what is it that you will do for no money, no, no, anything, just because it's what you love to do. And in the comments there are hundreds, there are thousands of people. I'd cook, I love to cook. I cook for everyone. I make a community garden. I grow all the food for everyone. I love to sew. I make all of our clothes. I love to design clothes. I help you, we can make really cool fashion. They so many people talking about the things that they would do for not a fucking dime, just because they know that they'll be safe and have a community looking out for them and they won't go hungry or houseless, or because we'll have each other. We won't need them because we'll have each other. That's what matters. That's where the home what you're saying.
Speaker 1:It reminds me of the zeitgeist movement, that underground movement that was like really popular I think it was early two thousands and they had these hubs throughout the United States and all over countries, all over the globe, and they would meet with people that were engineers and scientists and astronauts and so on and so forth, and they would come up with these plans and blueprints for sustainability for the human race. How can we do things differently that would preserve the human race and but not only preserve our generation but also leave the following generations with something that bears fruit? Because right now, the whole idea is that we are consuming the earth's resources at a rate that is like two to three times faster than what it could reproduce, and so we're just depleting and depleting and depleting. And the whole idea is that if we keep going at this rate, at some point there's gonna be nothing left for us to take. So what can we do to start flipping the switch on that?
Speaker 1:And I went to a couple of them when I lived in New York City. I went to a couple of the meetings and you know how we talk about, how something is both euphoric and also devastating at the same time. That's what it was. It was so empowering and so incredible that when I walked out, I was like, wow, there's people that are that are thinking in these ways, right, but then at the same time, you realize that's never gonna fucking happen. So it's devastating. But just listening to you talk about that just reminded me of that. There are people in the world who think like that.
Speaker 2:It's, and because of that, it's always possible that it could happen. I mean, I think I often I think about, like in the time of the French Revolution and shit, how many people when that first wave of young college age boys died, how many people said this isn't gonna change shit, this isn't gonna do anything. Nowadays, the French are literally known for how hard they protest. The French are known for spewing horse manure on the House of Parliament, the House of Taxes or whatever the fuck they call it like. They are known for that shit. Even if it takes time, even if it's a progress that we will not live to see, something will always come from that ability to see where we are versus the potential of what we could be. And that's, I think, what I see in a lot of that. What are you going to do after the revolution? You know that thought process Like I love that shit Like yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love being people.
Speaker 1:We're in one. Yeah, me too, me too, and even as a clinician, that's one thing that I never, it's the single most important thing that I never take from a patient and let me say that again a different way, in the positive. It's the single most important thing that I'd like to encourage and instill in my patients, especially when they come in and they're just they've tried everything and they're just like I have nothing, this isn't going to work. They're just completely null and void of any hope. It's the one thing that I'm like you can do this, like don't give up. I tell everyone don't give up, you got this. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Now, hope is. Hope is kryptonite, it's a bourgeoisie. Hope is the thing that they don't want you to have above anything else. That's one of the reasons why the news cycle is so hopeless all the time.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:If you saw any sense of hope, then there'd be hope because, there's always hope, Like there are always.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can you imagine? Yeah, can you imagine how many people bonded together in hope, can you imagine the power that that would elicit and the tides that return it does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the power it does elicit, the power it has elicit, like. We have historic evidence of the power elicited by something as simple as hope. Yeah, but you know it's a long way and it sucks. No one is free until everyone is free. At the end of the day, capitalism has to burn for anyone to be free, because as long as we are in a system that thrives off of exploitation and that was built upon exploitation, there is always going to be someone that has to be exploited in order for it to function, and I don't want to be okay with a world where someone has to be exploited.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's exactly why these things never get resolved. It's like Roe v Wade. Why does that keep coming up, especially during the elections? It's like didn't we move past that? No, we didn't. It keeps coming up for those very reasons.
Speaker 2:That's another one of those capitalism things.
Speaker 1:I know I'm just giving an example Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Anyway, it's one of those things that makes my autism scream Scream.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So here's the thing I completely forgot to write. A fun fact.
Speaker 1:Kit forgot the fun fact Fuck.