Life Through a Queer Lens

EP33: Video Gaming Through a Queer Lens

• Jenene & Kit • Season 1 • Episode 33

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0:00 | 54:30

As we fire up the console of memory, our friend Dylan and us, we take you through a pixelated journey of gaming's past and present, painting the screen with tales as vivid as the adventures we've lived out in fantastical digital worlds. From the tactile joy of mashing buttons on a classic SNES to the awe-inspiring narratives of The Last of Us and the comforting farm life in Stardew Valley, we chart the course of gaming's evolution and its burgeoning inclusivity. Together, we celebrate not only our cherished video game memories but also the representation that resonates with players across the spectrum, highlighting queer narratives that have expanded the horizons of storytelling in interactive media.

As we maneuver through the intricacies of gaming genres, Dylan shares insights into the impact of role-playing games that offer a spectrum of characters and choices, affirming the identities of players who yearn to see themselves in the heroes they control. We discuss the satisfaction derived from both the nail-biting tension of action-packed adventures like Elden Ring and the gentle rhythms of cozy games that soothe the soul. Our conversation traverses the terrain of turn-based RPGs, marveling at the depth of queer storylines that enrich these games, and we gleefully geek out over practical gaming setups and the charm of custom accessories by indie artists.

Wrapping up our session, we guide listeners through the vibrant tapestry of queer-themed games suitable for younger audiences, ensuring a journey that's as age-appropriate as it is enlightening. With Dylan's expertise, we also spotlight the cultural legacy of queer representation in games, such as the Overwatch community's embrace of diverse characters, and reflect on the historical significance of LGBTQ+ narratives with the poignant tale of Emperor Ai's 'passion of the cut sleeve.' It's more than a podcast episode; it's an homage to the games that have shaped us and a nod to the future that awaits in the inclusive gaming universe of which we're thrilled to be a part.

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Speaker 1

I wanted to play that, my favorite. Oh yeah, street Fighter, yeah.

Speaker 2

Atari and SNES.

Speaker 1

Even Mortal.

Speaker 2

Kombat DDR, scooby-doo, knights of 100 Frights. The Wii First original Nintendo Mario.

Speaker 1

Four-person pinball Pinball machine.

Speaker 2

Ratchet and Clank, elden Ring, dark Souls, dungeons and Dragons, stardew Valley.

Speaker 1

I wanted to play that. Rpgs, playstation, the Queer Storyline, xbox, the Last of Us, life is Strange, the Bad End, theater.

Speaker 2

PS4. Roblox Valorant.

Speaker 1

Spiritfarer Overwatch. I wanted to play that.

Speaker 3

My favorite.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah.

Speaker 3

And so, like I was playing Atari before the first original Nintendo came out, that's how much of a dinosaur I am. I try to stay cool and young and hip and whatever.

Speaker 2

But I mean those are still. That's still really cool. Like that's like to be able to have been like played on those systems or whatever is like a really cool thing in general, because like I was only ever able to play on like the SNES or whatever growing up yeah, I remember playing like a lot of Mario games on it because those are the ones that I was made my favorite yeah, and so, like I played those growing up, I even technically in pieces in the room have, uh, an snes it's.

Speaker 2

It could technically be fixed possibly, but it's mostly just in pieces right now, unfortunately that's super cool.

Speaker 3

I know they sell the, the original nintendos they're kind of like a smaller version, like the miniature versions of them for like 50 bucks and they come with a bunch of games. But I think they're re-engineered. I don't think they are the actual original ones, I think they're manufactured later.

Speaker 2

But it's kind of the nostalgia behind it no, yeah, no, I've, yeah, I've heard of that. That's pretty cool but I love just having like the pieces of the ss, like you could turn those into, like different art things and like hang around like I have the controllers, I have a bunch of games like so many game cartridges, and then I've got like the actual, like case itself and it's like all of the inside. So it's like the technology you can see, like the pieces of it and stuff. It's super cool. It's really cool looking.

Speaker 1

That's awesome yeah okay, that's so fun.

Speaker 2

I love that it's the one that I had when I was a kid, um, so that's how I ended up with it, like it's the same exact one. It's just been that long that it kind of got taken apart a lot, that's fantastic super cool so, just so our audience is aware uh, this is dylan.

Speaker 1

They are he, he, they he they right, yeah he they. It Feel that in my bones.

Speaker 3

Welcome, Dylan.

Speaker 1

Hi. They are a very close friend of mine who I adore, I consider one of my besties, and they are here to discuss queer video games with us. Yeah so yeah, we're just jumping right into the video games, but I wanted to give everyone a quick introduction to you.

Speaker 2

No, definitely, and yeah.

Speaker 2

I mean, I've been gaming for like pretty much all of my life. I've played a lot of different types of games with certain you know different types of storylines. I do have my favorite types, but at the end of the day, I do just I love gaming in general and yeah, so I'm happy to be able to do this. What is your favorite type of game Like? What type of game do you find yourself most gravitating toward?

Evolution of Video Game Genres

Speaker 2

It's, I guess it's hard to put a pinpoint on it, but I want to say that a lot of games that I gravitate towards would be like platforming or and like story based games, things where you can do a lot of different stuff. It doesn't even necessarily have to be platforming, but things where you can follow a story and follow like a structure and there's like a lot of different things to do throughout the game, not even having to be open world, but feeling like you can always do something more, something to add on to the game, where it's just kind of like that experience where you like live in the story for a while and you get to live in the world with all of these characters and stuff. I think that's probably my favorite type of game to play I love that so much.

Speaker 3

I don't really know what the genre is called, but fair it's interesting too that you bring up the this idea of storytelling through video gaming, because I feel like that is so evolved, you know, like if you think about the first games or video games, it's like, oh yeah, collect the coins and get the most amount of points, kind of thing, or know, collect enough coins to proceed to the next level, and so I love this idea of storytelling.

Speaker 2

Yeah, like putting enough money to be able to beat the next big guy, to be able to beat the whole game at the arcade machine. You know at the local pizza place or whatever.

Speaker 1

Yeah, or get the ball in the hole, yeah, yeah, at the local pizza place or whatever. Yeah, or get the ball in the hole. Yeah, it's great to see how it's actually evolved into. It's almost like a playable book, like one of those like choose your own adventures books that you would see in like the 60s and the 70s that were like super popular. It's now that, but through video games. It's really cool.

Speaker 2

Yeah, exactly, and I think that that's it's just a really wonderful thing about it and that's actually like even throughout. That's evolved through time because, like you know, there were points in times when, like, each genre of game kind of had its time in the spotlight. Like there was like um, like the battle beat-em-up style games, where it's like a one-way alley and you go through and you do the things, um, you beat up certain characters, things like mario or, uh, street fighter I believe fighter yeah things like that combat yeah, even mortal combat had a bit of that uh type of element exactly.

Speaker 2

And then, like you know, first person shooters were incredibly popular for a while, and they still are in a lot of places, but there's also now so many different types of games, like there's pretty much something out there for almost everyone and usually even just like non like, for me personally.

Speaker 1

I only really got into gaming like a year ish ago and I have found a plethora of things that are adult themed, that aren't like kids games, but that match my skill level. Like I don't feel like I'm just constantly failing all the time, over and over and over again.

Speaker 2

No, definitely, I completely understand that and like, even if I'm failing in these games, let's say it doesn't feel ungodly punishing, it doesn't feel like you know you're. The whole game is ruined now and you have to start from the very beginning or start from doing something incredibly difficult, or even if you do have to do something incredibly difficult again, it's worth the reward and that's what makes it a lot like a lot more worthwhile for people to be able to play and enjoy it and find something for, I guess, their type of genre and their type of vibe.

Speaker 1

Absolutely. So like I have to ask and this is probably gonna be really difficult to like pinpoint but what would you say is your favorite video game Like? Do you have like one that's like oh yeah, that's the one, or is it just like way too difficult to figure out between like too many?

Speaker 2

Funnily enough and this may be nostalgia, talking honestly, but it is a game that I can no longer play. It is an old Scooby Doo platforming game. It is called Scooby Doooo, knights of 100 Frights. It was on the PS2. And this game was absolutely incredible. Like it had so many different levels and so many different things you could do.

Speaker 2

You had to collect specific tokens. To be able to collect, they were called monster tokens. You went into a back area and you could look at all these different monsters, read fun facts about them and collect all this cool stuff. It was a huge gallery where you got all this information about the Scooby gang, about the monsters, about the show from, like all the way back when it first came out. Like it was incredible and it was all through rewarding platform and gameplay that also had an overarching story about trying to figure out who was haunting this like big castle place that you guys were at.

Speaker 2

It was an amazing game Like it had so much involved in it for a PS2 game and I am incredibly like sad that I can never play it again because I don't have a PS2 and I don't have a copy and I don't think I've been able to see like a copy anywhere or even like an emulation online, anything like it's. So it's sad, but that would probably. I would say it was probably my favorite game and, honestly, the game that got me the most into gaming as I got older that is so heartwarming.

Speaker 1

I love that so much, like having known you for a while, like I did not know that. That is that that makes my whole heart happy, oh my god.

Speaker 2

So, dylan, you're saying that that game was ahead of its time for what it was um, I don't even necessarily know if it was ahead of its time, but for me as a young kid definitely, as who didn't really play a lot of video games when I was super young, except for the SNES games I found this game to be incredible. I just found it to be so fun and involved and something that my whole family did together. We all would sit down and play the Scooby-Doo game and have fun playing it together and do the different levels and like it was even something you could sit down by yourself and do and have a great time doing it, playing it over and over again, and so that's kind of just why it became one of those comforting kind of games.

Speaker 3

For me it's kind of like what you were saying earlier about the storytelling being just so engaging and giving, giving it more reason, more purpose, and this kind of sounds like because it was more that your whole family got involved, that it was stimulating in that sense, where it became a family event or something that you guys did together because the platform allowed for that yeah, exactly and I think that was like not many games in that day and age were able to do that.

Speaker 1

Like prior to, like the we releasing there weren't too, many games that were, or game systems that were able to get the whole family so involved, happily and like readily Like. The Wii was really the first time that you saw like everyone playing a video game.

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, ddr. Yeah, exactly, Dance Dance Revolution. No, yeah, because even my mom would sit down and like enjoy watching it with us, because she was never super game savvy or tech savvy, but she did like Scooby-Doo and she liked that. We all liked Scooby-Doo. So she would sit down and she'd be engaged in this with us. She'd be enjoying it. You know, even if she was off in the other room doing something, she'd still like poke her head in and talk to all of us when we'd be doing it. It was just always a really fun time.

Speaker 1

That's. I love that because I definitely think it was very rare for games to be able to do that in that day and age, whereas more and more since the Wii, you're seeing game systems and games be able to attract like the whole family because they figured out like the importance of doing that.

Speaker 2

But back then it really just that wasn't really a thing trying to get the whole family in, but with an ip like yeah, no, there was at least the idea to try and get two players at the time, depending on the console, because, like you know, two-player games, something like you know ratchet and clank or whatnot I think ratchet and clank was two player, I might be off on that, but, yes, games like that where they were trying to get, like you know, two players, but it was never really a an idea to try and get four people because there was just not the capacity for that. You couldn't get four players on a controller, or at least you know even more if it was a bigger family or even you know what I mean even just three players, if it's I can relate to that, yeah yeah, so it's even with the technological limits.

Speaker 1

At the time there was an effort with that game to like, try to at least, like you know, make it so the other members of the family would want to watch, would want to have some type of part in it, because they'd recognize the IP.

Speaker 2

Exactly, and they did a great job with it, like they did a great job with all of the Scooby-Doo elements. It felt Scooby-Doo when you played the game. It didn't just feel like a platformer with Scooby-Doo slapped on. That's important too, yeah.

Speaker 1

I hate things like that, where it, just where it feels like the IP is just like slapped over something that could have been literally anything else Exactly.

Speaker 3

You guys are going to laugh at this. But, dylan, I don't know if you know, but I'm a chiropractor. One of my patients invited me and my partner to his buddy's house with he and his buddy, and they're both like avid pinball machine collectors. They actually hold game nights in their basement. It sounds creepy, but it's so much fun.

Speaker 2

No, that sounds sick, that sounds so fun yeah.

Speaker 3

We might have to like make a game night with us or something where you guys come to the island.

Speaker 3

That'd be so fun, we went to his friend's house and he's a collector of all things right. So his basement is like Harley Davidson stuff and all kinds of like old school retro kind of theming but it's really nice. It's not like a pack rat kind of a basement, but anyway he has 12 pinball machines down there and of course they gave us a history lesson on all the different machines and most of the ones he had were like late 70s and into the 80s and they're all restored and you can see some of the pinball machines were built for one player and then you see some of the machines evolved into two player they actually keep the score for each player and then some of them were evolved even to two teams of two, so for four players.

Speaker 2

That's really cool.

Speaker 3

So with the older machines you can only what you would have to do is just play. One person take the total score and then the other person would go yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3

Yeah, but this one you can actually it feels more integrated. But that just you guys are talking. I'm like man, this is a throwback, but I have to share.

Speaker 2

No, that definitely sounds from. That sounds very similar to the, to that idea to be able to involve everybody in that same kind of communal feeling of being able to game and do it together. Yeah, exactly. So nobody's left out, nobody's feeling kind of like bored or they're, even if they're just kind, eh, they can still watch and be engaged.

Speaker 1

I got to say four person pinball boggled my mind Like what, what?

Speaker 3

And it's so simple. You know, like I said earlier, just putting trying to get the ball. Well, you're trying to gain the most amount of points without losing the ball, losing a turn. Yeah Right, like you were talking about earlier, dylan, like three lives and you're out.

Speaker 2

You know it's detrimental, it's over Game over. Yeah, exactly no, yeah. And then even games where you like incrementally increase your life or things like that, like you can gain that kind of ability where you power up. That is always just a fantastic and fun element for gaming.

Speaker 2

There's a lot of horror games that implement that incredibly well as well, where you're just like playing through the game and like you get to a certain point or whatever, and like you know you upgrade a certain weapon or you upgrade a certain item or you upgrade your literal physical person or whatever to be able to move on to that next level and do those next things. Like it's super fascinating to me when games do that and what the the next thing's gonna be or what different combinations I can make to make this super cool. A lot of uh games like elden ring, dark souls, those that kind of games, the souls born, kind of vibe that whole the blood-born style like yeah, all of that kind of games.

Speaker 2

They also do that very well, but in a different way, where you can just kind of do different things and combine different things and make certain builds or whatever. But each game obviously it's different. Each game you have to look for specific items or get specific things or get enough points to be able to get that thing. And some people find that gameplay very rewarding, but not everybody's going to Exactly.

Speaker 2

Some people want to play games like Stardew Valley, where you can just kind of it's still got its own stresses, but it's cozier, it's a little bit easier, it's more relaxed, you feel like you have more time. You have more time to get these tasks done. You don't feel like you're going to go over the edge just because well, maybe some people you lose one item in the mines. No right, Something to that effect.

Speaker 1

Yeah yeah, that's why I'm a cozy gamer, because I can't. I personally, like my partner, loves the elden ring, the blood born style games, but I just I can't. It's too, I'm stressed enough. Just like existing. Yeah, I don't, I don't need that. I'm good I can definitely.

Speaker 2

Uh, I've definitely played like. I've played those types of games and I'm mostly elden ring. David has tried to get me to play a handful of the other ones and I've. I can definitely. I've definitely played like. I've played those types of games and mostly Elden Ring. David has tried to get me to play a handful of the other ones and I've played them a little bit, but they're not really my style because the big thing with Elden Ring was that it was open world. I could go anywhere and do anything. My very first playthrough I literally stayed up all night when I got my horse and ran around the entire area. I went into areas I was not supposed to be in at my level and just ran through them, ran past the enemies, didn't even engage. I had no interest in engaging with those enemies. I was like I'm just going to run around here for a while and get the map to be big and pretty. That was how I played Elden Ring my very first time.

Speaker 1

Love that. I love that so much.

Speaker 3

Explore your environment. I mean, that's, that's not exactly.

Speaker 2

But as I kind of settled back down and got a lot of the map and realized I couldn't go to other places without having to fight people, I was like, okay, it looks like I'm gonna have to learn how to fight things and I didn't end up really enjoying the play style, like finding my own abilities and ways to play it and ways to do things and whatnot. But on the opposite end, I also love playing stardew, like I was saying earlier, and games like that, like things like uh, there was just one game, it's almost uh, cult of the lamb. Ask as well if you've uh ever played cult of the lamb.

Speaker 1

Yeah, um, I think I explained it to you the other night it is a game.

Speaker 2

Basically it is a dungeon crawl game where you can also have elements of building like a camp for your cultists, to keep it as simple as possible. And it's another game similar to that it's called moonlighter, where you run a little shop during the day and you have to collect items from the mines at night and or from these like dungeons at night and beat these dungeons and beat the creatures in these dungeons, to collect these items, bring them back to your place, sell them and then use that money to upgrade the town it is.

Speaker 2

I wanted to play that it's a very fun cozy game. David got me to play it and I do not regret it. Yeah, it is. It is, uh, very similar to cult of the lamb. I recommend it.

Speaker 1

It is once you get into it. If you could snapchat me the name of that, I appreciate it because my memory is shot.

Speaker 2

Thank you, I got you. I will do that as soon as we're done. Actually, I should probably do it now, or I'll forget too.

Speaker 3

So but in terms of, in terms of cozy games, do you guys think and this is I know this has become a video game, but I remember it as it actually had game pieces before it became a video game but dungeons and dragons, do you guys, are you familiar with that?

Speaker 2

I am very familiar with dungeons and dragons. I've played with balder's gate most recently, which is a good segue into queer gaming. Honestly, oh sweet, kind of like D&D Lite, from what I've been told, like it's different, but they're very similar. They have slightly different rules, things like that, and as I got older I started to play D&D. I've played a handful of campaigns. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to finish any of them, but that's kind of how it goes.

Turn-Based Gaming With Queer Storylines

Speaker 2

It'd be like that yeah, and then I saw a lot of advertisements for Baldur's Gate and so I decided to buy the game. I like spent my own money on it. I bought myself like a gift card thing with my cash so that I could buy the game, and I downloaded it and I absolutely loved it. It was an incredibly fun experience. It is a turn based combat. It's a type of combat where you take turns and each of your characters gets to make a move and then it kind of goes back to the enemies. They make their moves, so on and so forth. So it's a turn-based combat system with semi-open world elements and, again, an overarching story, and it's all based around D&D.

Speaker 2

Like, you can play as a tiefling, you can play as a human, you can play as an elf. You can play specifically as a drow elf. You can play as a human, you can play as an elf. You can play specifically as a drow elf. You can play as all different types of characters. You can play as a halfling, and then you can also make your characters intersex. You can make your characters like any sexuality, gender, whatever you choose, and it is like, uh, as you go on this journey or whatever you meet, all this different cast of characters who all have their own inherent personality traits and their inherent like um you know complex lives and ideas, and they're all again based in this huge dnd world where you're kind of all fighting for your lives together to remove a worm from your head that is going to turn you into a, a mind flayer, if you don't get it removed. That is the campaign for this game.

Speaker 1

I think one of the big things about Baldur's Gate, rpgs, d&d, in general, all the games like that that inherently make it able to be queer queer by proxy is the idea of choice. Of course. Queer by proxy is the idea of choice. Of course, it's the aspect of being able to choose anything, any, any aspect of your sexuality, your gender, your biological sex. All of those aspects of choice really allow for, just like queerness abound. So at the end of the day, like rpgs, just like they're like right there with it, just because of that aspect of choice most definitely.

Speaker 2

Um, there's a lot of uh. That's why I like this headset, because the the mute button is right here on the headset I need to get one of those that's more for gaming.

Speaker 3

That's what we were talking about yesterday to get to follow the gamers.

Speaker 2

Now you can hear me again, gaming headsets are where it's pretty nice one. Yeah, I, I don't even remember the name of this one I and unfortunately I did I did get it off of Amazon, but I could see if I could.

Speaker 2

Yeah, we could find somebody local. It was one of the ones that again from David's gift card for work. Yeah, we can find someone. Hopefully you can find one that's maybe GameStop or something. They should have something like this. Yeah, just make sure it's not specifically for, like, an Xbox or PlayStation, or it won't work with a computer. Those, those ones are so annoying. I have a headset in my drawer right now for an xbox and I don't own an xbox because I was told that it would work for my playstation and I was like I was so mad.

Speaker 1

Yeah, exactly, boo there's an artist on a tiktok that basically makes like custom gaming headphones that have like horns. Oh, that's really cool, like they look fucking awesome. So like I can send you her if you're interested in getting one that's like from a small time artist.

Speaker 3

That's also an option, of course we are.

Speaker 1

And that'll also give you like specs of the headphones that you're getting.

Speaker 3

No, definitely Sweet. I'd love that.

Speaker 1

Yeah, if I find her again on my fyp, I'll send her to you, and also send her to you too.

Speaker 2

I'm surprised I haven't no sweet.

Speaker 3

I will definitely look I mean, I love mine, the base, the base on these things kicks. I think they're better for music than for podcasting no, that's fair, that is completely plus.

Speaker 1

I like what they represent yeah, of course, yeah, speaking of what they represent. When it comes to queer storylines that are actually like built into games, like the game is designed to have a queer storyline, not mattering what the player chooses, I feel like those are definitely fewer and far between, but they they are still out there. A prominent example is the last of us, which is now a major hbo tv show yes, the last of us.

Speaker 2

I personally have not played the game. I do have a lot of appreciation for the game as a whole. Through, again, intense storytelling and intense circumstances, let's say throughout the game and throughout the entire two like I guess I should say, both games, we learn a lot about these characters and we learn to love them and care about them, regardless of who they are. And I think that is a big important part of the storytelling within these games that even with these characters, you know being queer or being you know whoever, being different in one way or another. Like our the main character, ellie, she is immune to the infection for one reason or another. That is the whole crux of the story is that she is immune. And throughout these stories, the players learn to love and care for these characters and appreciate them and want to follow their stories and see it through, regardless of anything else, regardless if even the world is against them within the story. That's key.

Speaker 3

That's so key.

Speaker 1

And then the TV show even takes it a step further with the queer storylining and ties it back to the game in, I think, a very beautiful way with the storyline of I think their names are Bill and Ted.

Speaker 1

I believe so. Yeah, the third episode of the show. There are two characters that are in the game named Bill and Ted, and in the game they just are shown to have some type of relationship. Through the show you find out that it is a romantic relationship. They are in love with one another and spoiler alerts for the Last of Us later on in the games, bill finds Ted's dead body with Joel standing with the main character, you as the player, standing there and you ask who is that? And I can't remember exactly what he says, but he very much brushes off the question while also sounding very devastated. And that moment in the show of realizing they are in love ties back to that moment in the game in such a beautiful, heartbreaking way and it allows for the queer storyline in the game to not even have really been necessary. You know, because the show did such a good job of tying it. I personally feel, at least in my opinion, it just is a very beautiful way of doing it.

Speaker 2

Oh, of course, I don't know what else to add to the Last of Us. It is a very big franchise and I know you know very little, so I wanted to try and segue into another one. So what would you like to talk about next? Let me ask you that Like which game would you like to segue into next?

Exploring Life Is Strange Franchise

Speaker 1

Hmm, well, I mean, I am down for what. Like I said, you know me, I'm not like a huge gamer, so like I don't really know too many, I know, uh, there's the bad end theater that you and I, um, we're talking about we can also life is strange. There you go that's a part, yeah, it's great oh my god see, you're a good segwayer. No, definitely. So things get real weird in the last of us. And then here comes life is strange. To make it even weirder somehow.

Speaker 2

Life is Strange is a fantastic game, honestly All three. Is there three or four? I honestly can't remember. I feel like there's only three, but there is. I think there's four.

Speaker 1

Because they also like they released a remaster.

Speaker 2

Oh, but I think there's four in all Is four, including Before the Storm Four is including true colors.

Speaker 1

I don't even see.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, it's including before the storm okay, cool, because that is a prequel game.

Speaker 1

Four so there are four games. There's life is strange. Life is strange to, life is strange before the storm. And life is strange true colors yes, that's helpful.

Speaker 2

Yes, thank you. So yeah, with uh, life is strange and all four of the games in the franchise. There is the original. There's the first game, which follows max and chloe in their fantastical storytelling of max essentially getting powers, the ability to stop time, do you know, do these things and trying to constantly save Chloe's life and throughout doing this, it kind of causes a huge catastrophe throughout the town.

Speaker 1

And very much revolves around like their relationship to one another.

Speaker 2

And always wanting to be with one another and in close proximity to one another and, you know, eventually realizing their feelings for one another. But it would come at the cost of the entire town.

Speaker 1

That's kind of one of those things where, like, the willingness to sacrifice the one you love for everyone and their relationship is so cute oh my god, it's so cute.

Speaker 2

And at the time I remember I was fairly young when the game came out I don't remember exactly how old, but I remember it was huge, it was incredibly popular and it was like literally everywhere.

Speaker 2

And this is also at a time when it was not like like it was just kind of becoming in public eye of queerness and things like that in general again, like where it was talked about and people didn't feel like they were constantly having to hide it and a of people in, like um, online social spaces were starting to be able to feel like they could figure out identities for themselves, things like that.

Speaker 2

And it was a huge success. Like so many people liked this fucking game. So many people bought this fucking game and played this game to even massive youtubers at the time like played the game and played it all the way through and did even different stories. Like played it through to the point that they were able to go back, make different choices, change things, try over and over again and make it so this game was accessible to even more people. So even more people could see all the different ways this game was storytelling affected people, and even people who couldn't buy the game at their times could experience these queer stories without necessarily feeling like they missed anything Makes sense.

Speaker 1

And what I really appreciate about the love story in those games is the fact that they're very natural. You know like sometimes you see two people push together too quickly or torn apart for no apparent reason whatsoever, especially in queer storylines, but with the two of them it was just very like oh yeah, of course it's going to go like this. They're, I think, 15, 16 in the game, something like that. They're teenagers. Oh yeah, yeah. So it's one of those things where it's just very believable. It's a very believable progression of relationship from friendship to something more, and I think that's something that even nowadays I've seen studios and pieces of media struggle with is just producing a natural relationship flow that doesn't feel rushed or forced or like it's been torn apart that people can relate to.

Speaker 2

Yeah, exactly. And then with the prequel game it focuses more on Chloe and her relationship with Rachel, who was kind of a secondary part of the story within Life is Strange, you know itself, and it also had like a lot of elements of queer storytelling, with this idea of Chloe constantly chasing after rachel and rachel just kind of being that person. That it was, I guess, chloe's uh aha moment, so to speak, like being aware that she likes girls, that she is queer, that she is a lesbian, and it kind of segues very beautifully and also very sadly into the, into the original game, because you know what happens to rachel at the end, you know where that like where her story ends and how, where chloe's story ends as well. So it's kind of that like very tragic it's, it's.

Speaker 1

It feels like a cycle coming to an end. It feels like something like like it feels like a cycle coming to an end. It feels like something like it feels like a just but all, like everything has tied itself into a. Not, but not in a way that's satisfying, not in a way that, like, makes you happy. It's in a way that makes you just like ow my heart.

Speaker 2

No, definitely.

Speaker 1

And then True Colors has a trans main character.

Speaker 2

Yes, True Colors is a trans main character. I actually I do not know anything about True Colors. I know very, very little. I know mostly with Life is Strange 2, it mostly focuses on familial story more than queer story story. But there is there's a queer storyline within the story, but it has.

Speaker 2

It has an interesting uh element to it because part of that storyline is if you go with, uh, if you, the main character that you are playing as pursues this queer relationship with this person, it is also at the cost of his relationship with his brother, not through the queerness, but because the person that he is being with is making poor decisions, is is doing bad things, is a negative influence on his brother and it is causing our main character to make these poor choices. And so you kind of see that like familial split, where it sometimes comes to these things, where it's sometimes it is the family connections that are, you know, keeping you together, keeping them safe or whatever, versus the connection that he has with this person. Though it is special, they are still not the best person for them to be around. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1

I think that that's a really, really interesting and important storyline. To explore in general is the idea of a relationship can still be unhealthy or bad, even if it's not for the reasons that someone might originally think.

Speaker 2

It is a fantastic game. I do highly recommend you play it at some point if you get a chance.

Speaker 1

I will definitely take a look at that, even if I could just find a playthrough of it.

Speaker 3

Honestly, oh definitely so, Dylan. What platform do you use to play your video games? Like you were saying earlier, you have headphones for an Xbox that you don't have anymore.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, no headphones for an Xbox that I never had, gotcha. I am mostly a console gamer. I play PlayStation, I play PS4. I have the laptop as well and I do like a little bit of computer gaming and I would like to get like a computer setup, mostly because it's hard for me to sit and play on the laptop for long periods of time, all kind of scrunched up and whatnot. Yeah, I get that, but I have a handful of games that I play on the laptop, but 90% of the time I'm a console gamer.

Speaker 3

So, for the listeners who might want to get into gaming, if you want to go in this direction for a minute for listeners that might consider, you know, trying out some of these games, how might they start? Like? What kind of equipment do they need? What are the? What's the basic setup? What do you?

Speaker 2

recommend. I mean honestly, for a lot of people the basic setup is really just kind of, you know, get yourself a console, make sure you have a TV you can hook it up to and make sure you have a controller that works Like, as long as you have those base things. Unfortunately, a lot of consoles nowadays you do have to pay to be able to play online games, so you have to, like pay a certain fee amount each month to be able to use the internet on your console. So with that in mind, all you really need is again the console itself, the controller and the TV, because then you can just you can play any game that you want. If you want to buy it physically on disk and you'd rather own it like that, that's fine. If you want to download a bunch of the free Battle Royale games that are on there, that's cool too. There's also a bunch of other free games that you can download. Sometimes there's game sales, so there's stuff that's on sale for cheap. I mean no-transcript.

Speaker 1

So, like you know and stuff like that, I heavily recommend looking into indie games specifically. You're far more likely to find a storyline, a game where queer theming is baked into the game from an indie studio than from a AAA studio any day of the week. That's just some personal recommendations. There's Bad End Theater, which I talked about a little bit earlier. I find it to be a really, really great game. It's about the ideas of comedy and tragedy formed between four separate people's storylines and how they all intersect and how their own personalities can completely change the storyline. Very, very cool, oh God. I'm trying to think of another one that I watched recently that made me cry. What was it? I can't remember for the life of me. But indie storylines in general, indie games in general you're going to be far more likely to just pick up a random indie game and find a queer main or side character than in a AAA game.

Queer-Themed Gaming Recommendations for Teens

Speaker 3

No, yeah, I know my two nieces. They are into like roblox and stuff that comes equipped with the computer and they also play video games with their dad.

Speaker 1

I was wondering how you guys would recommend integrating something with queer theming, like using gaming as a more of like a teaching tool I think the best thing to do would honestly be look for like go on google and look for rated t like teen games with lgbtq storylines. Try to keep it to specifically t or rated e for everyone, because then you're going to find age appropriate storylines for kids you know around that age and you're not going to be getting like too mature and in the lines of like, gore and graphic stuff, cool. I think even Life is Strange is a T for teen rated game. I do believe. Yeah, life is Strange would be a great place to start that whole series. None of them have very extensive mature storylines, but they're a really good glimpse into young queer life while at the same time being pretty the second one might the second one the second one I'll check.

Speaker 1

I'm not 100% sure. I know the first one is rated T for teen. I definitely recommend starting at least with the first one, because it's got complex enough gameplay that it's not super easy. It's not something they'll just fly through, but it's also not something they'll get frustrated with. It's easy enough that it should be doable. Again, try to keep the rating somewhere between t for teen and e for everyone. Try not to go too far past that, especially with them being like 13, 14 for little little kids, like four-year-olds.

Speaker 2

Unfortunately, there isn't I hate to break it to you.

Speaker 1

Chief life of strangers rated m really oh, bummer man rats yeah, unfortunately and I know the Last of Us is rated M because that's a very just gore-wise is a very graphic game.

Speaker 2

It's a zombie apocalypse.

Speaker 3

It's a very violent game in general. Yeah, can you guys go over the?

Speaker 2

rating yeah, e for everyone. E10+ is usually kids, 10 and up. T for teen, t for teen, m for mature, and then I don't believe there's anything else other than M for Mature, unless it's like completely unrated, which is I don't know if that's a category for gaming, necessarily.

Speaker 1

Bro, I can't even find like the list of the rating system.

Speaker 2

Ah, Stardew Valley has a rating of PG I-12, which means it's appropriate for kids 12 or above. Cool yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's helpful, and Stardew Valley is nice because you you can. That's one of those. Like you can choose what it is that you do you can choose.

Speaker 2

You can do what you want to do. You can play what you want to play. It's a very um, there's like a little bit of language, uh, a little bit of like, uh like there's like alcohol in it that you can like make or whatever um and like kegs and stuff, but that's like late game stuff. So there's a little bit of like mature stuff in it, but it's it's all uh 8-bit, so it's like pixels, so it's nothing too egregious. If you wanted to play it for yourself first it is a great game and I do recommend it or if you wanted to have their parents play it whoever, I have to admit I'm curious it's really fun.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's a really fun game.

Speaker 2

It's, so it's cute.

Speaker 1

It's a lot of fun we'll do it.

Speaker 3

We'll do a pinball game night and and do some gaming.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that'd be awesome but yeah, honestly, just try to.

Speaker 2

You know google is, is is gonna be, a bff for things like this, even though google searching right now is like looking through the ads section on facebook so overstimulating it takes a minute to find the big thing I do is mostly just Google, I guess what Kit said with like queer-friendly gaming and like make sure it's for a certain specific age rating, like try and keep it in that like E10 to teen rating area, and I mean even side note from gaming or whatever.

Speaker 1

There's also like TV shows and stuff that kind of have those elements that are for like kids pretty good oh yeah for people around that age, I'd say cool uh, another game that I think would be a decent place to start a spirit farer. I think spirit farer is rated t for teen. I'll have to look that up. But spirit farer is phenomenal. It's just so cute, it's so good and it has a few separate characters that you, as the spirit farer help, are lgbtq like. One of the first ones is an older woman who talks about a, a woman who she was in love with and who, like, taught her how to be calmer and, like let go of certain things. And oh my god, it's so cute.

Speaker 1

You basically play as, uh, charon's replacement, so like the god of spirit ferrying spirits to the other side, you're his replacement. He's retiring, he's done with the gig and you're replacing him and it's your job to just like take care of all these elderly animal spirit people, basically, as they're about to cross over, and then you help them cross over and it's really beautiful. It deals a lot with themes of grief crossover and it's really beautiful. It deals a lot with themes of grief. Every person I've met in that game has reminded me of a family member I've personally lost, which has been really nice for just general healing. It's really, really cute and, again, just has very well done, not super, I don't want to even say in in your face, but, like you know, it has just very, very well done. Queer storylines that are just kind of spoken about like it's just totally normal, you know, like it's just a part of the game that isn't spotlighted like look, we have the representation, like it's just exists like it does in real life here.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it doesn't feel pandering, that's the word I was looking for. It doesn't feel like it's.

Speaker 2

That's the word I was looking for. It doesn't feel like it's pandering.

Speaker 1

Spiritfarer is rated 12 and up, so it's good. You would be fine. The only reason it's even 12 and up is just because they don't think younger kids would be able to handle the themes of death and stuff which like. That's fair.

Speaker 3

Yeah, makes sense.

Speaker 1

Recommend, so yes.

Speaker 2

Overwatch, yeah, but it makes sense recommend cool. So, yes, overwatch. So overwatch is a it's first person shooter game where you play with two teams of five and there is some type of objective that you have to do one way or another, either if you're defending or attacking, or if you're both attacking it at the same time and trying to get one team on the point for the longest amount of time. Regardless, it's a fairly popular game and I started playing it. I want to say I only started playing it in Overwatch 2, but I started playing it pretty early on into season one and throughout my personal experience and my time playing this game, they've added a handful of queer characters and done a huge amount of queer representation within the game and within the game storytelling, and even before that there were a handful of characters that they had announced were queer.

Speaker 2

I believe the first ever character they announced queer was Tracer. She was announced to be a lesbian and she was even given a partner in game as, like, she's had background interactions in certain seasons and there's sprays of her in the game, the two of them talking they, uh. She was even featured in a comic for the game. Uh, that shows where she lit where she lived and tracer going to visit her and stuff like that. Uh, the partner's name is lena, emily is her name. Tracer's real name is lena. Sorry, they have their character names and they have their actual names so her partner's name is emily, got it yes, I apologize.

Speaker 2

I apologize and she, her partner's name is emily and, uh, emily is also a very prominent character in season five's dnd campaign for overwatch, where, uh, she was actually the dungeon master for it because they did a dnd themed season, and throughout it you got to see little more and more character interactions between all these characters and emily was basically there to oversee the whole campaign for them. That's all, and it was a very, very cute season and there was some very cute interactions between tracer and, uh, her girlfriend, so that was really really nice to get to see. That's cute.

Speaker 2

76. He is a gay man, and an elder gay man at that, so he is also like an elder queer representation and he is like, basically the leader, one of the like main leaders of overwatch. When overwatch was still a uh, an organization, let's say, uh, he was one of the main heads of it and one of the like most respected people in the whole place and like everybody, everybody he was the strike commander. That's what they call him, and so it's. It was very, very nice to get to see someone who is a queer man be in a position of great respected power and then also even get to live into his elder years and be still out there trying to help people constantly.

Speaker 3

That's cool, though I like the intersectionality in that theming.

Speaker 1

But no, I love that with Soldier 76, the fact that he is not only representation for an elder queer but is also very much the representation of, like this stereotypical macho straight man.

Speaker 2

Two, but there are, like so many other characters that have been introduced throughout the game's time that have also been, like, revealed to be queer, like, I guess uh said to be queer at one point or another. There's farrah, there's life weaver and there's baptiste, and then there is their newest character, who is venture. Venture is a non-binary character and they not only are they a non-binary character, and they not only are they a non-binary character, but it's not just that. They made them non-binary and then just were kind of like, okay, cool, they also added specific name cards, which they have for all of their queer characters, but they added a new one for Venture, so they added more non-binary representation so people could show themselves. They also added one with the trans flag for Venture and on top of that, venture's kit is fun to play. Venture is an incredibly fun character.

Speaker 2

I have a great time every single time that I log on and I get to play that character. I am always having fun when I'm playing Venture Because their whole thing is that they dig underground and then they can shoot forward with a drill. You can shoot forward up into the air or while you're underground that's a big part of it and or while you're underground that's a big part of it. And they have a lot of really funny voice lines and it also made the fan base incredibly happy.

Speaker 2

I have never seen so much like Overwatch content, like show up on my TikTok and things like that for like character fan content Ever. Like I, you know, I'll occasionally see some stuff, but it's usually just gaming clips. You know people posting clips from the games or whatnot, but this is like actual, like fandom type content. It is super, super fun to see and get to see so many people feel represented by this character and feel that they, like you know, enjoy this character so much and that this character is so fun to play. That it's just. It makes it a great experience overall for all of these different people and so that they feel really like seen in the game I think my favorite thing about venture is the fact that they are an archaeologist and I don't know.

Speaker 1

I personally feel like every queer, especially trans, person is in some way a history nerd, because you kind of have to be just to like, prove your own existence, just to like, like, validate your own existence to people who are trying to invalidate you, like no, we've been here for centuries and here's the proof.

Speaker 2

You know what I'm saying? No, I totally understand that.

Speaker 1

It feels like almost like a little nod to that fact that, like we all in some way have to understand our history in order to validate ourselves to the people who hate us, Even though that shouldn't be necessary, it sometimes is and we all in some way have that expertise because of that necessity.

Speaker 2

No, definitely. I feel like there's also another interesting fact to mention about Venture is that their favorite type of archaeology is specifically omnic archaeology. And omnics in the world of Overwatch essentially are a species of robot humanoids that have sentience, that were born from a war a very long time ago and now they just are trying to kind of live in peace and live in the world amongst humans and whatnot. But a lot of humans still either have trauma or just, you know, don't care, think that they're just stupid robots, whatever. And the Omnics are othered a lot, and so Venture as a character, to have a specific interest in the archaeology of creatures that were othered, is just very, very poetic to me, like it's very pretty, like it's very nice to like, think about it like that, even to the point that there are specific Omnic characters in the game that do not like humans, that have passive interactions with Venture.

Speaker 3

It's kind of like sub theming in a way, because you're integrating the queer experience with a queer character, kind of in this way that if you know queer history you pick up on that. Queer people were always here, starting with the natives, and how the Europeans came over and basically said okay, boys, you need to cut your hair so you can better be able to differentiate your sex. And you're going to adhere to the binary and you're going to act with a certain set of criteria. It used to be that there were no names for gender. The natives just were and they accepted whatever it was, so there wasn't terminology around it. Men could have long hair, women can have facial hair, you know, all these things that we kind of got bullied in the history to come to, you know, have a shame, have shame attached to it.

Speaker 3

It used to be that the natives in their time they would honor those things, they would have ceremony around those things. Multiple genders, non-binary, non-gendered, whatever your sexuality is, didn't matter if you had long hair or short hair, however you're presented, it was. Everybody was so celebratory. So now we're trying to take back what was rightfully ours and had been taken from us. But, like everything else evolves, like language. Now we have this language to better be able to define things, because we need to now. But you're right, it just it feels like a sub-theme, it feels like that's our history and a lot of people they're not aware of that. They think being queer is new. They think they think non-binary is new and it's not. It's a fad, it's not new. It's always been around. So that's really cool.

Speaker 1

You know it's a. Really it is a very fascinating form of sub theming, with with Fincher not only being an archaeologist, but being specifically an um, um, how do you say it? Omnic omnic.

Speaker 2

Thank you, yes, specifically interested in omnic archaeology yeah, like that is fascinating.

Speaker 1

I feel like omnic archaeology is an accidental tongue tongue twister, like that's hard to say yeah, it is.

Speaker 2

It's a little bit difficult.

Speaker 3

Sounds badass though.

Speaker 2

It does.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, no-transcript.

Speaker 3

If you read between the lines, it's us telling our story. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2

That's. I love that Some side mentions, I guess would be that they recently just added a character named Clover to the game. Valorant, which is non-binary representation. The negative side to that is Valorant, which is non-binary representation. The negative side to that is that, unfortunately, that gaming sphere in particular has not been super welcoming to that character, unfortunately. But that's just because Valorant players are, you know, valorant players.

Speaker 2

And then Bloodhound is Apex, non-binary representation, and they are basically completely covered in head-to-toe from tactical gear. So the positive of that is that anybody who wishes to misgender them can't because they can't decide on a gender to misgender them as- you just can't tell yeah, 10 out of 10. You can't tell they're non-binary, leave them alone. That's all you get. 10 out of 10.

Speaker 2

I love that I also really appreciate how a lot of these games, specifically during pride month because you know it do be like that will reskin some of their levels to have like a bunch of the pride flags around and oh yeah, in in overwatch when you go through a bunch of the maps, have like huge like rainbow flags and there's like rainbow confetti in the one map where there's like, uh, there's a bunch of like stuff and like even sometimes even fun in-game events for that like period of time during the summer, because it's getting close to summer and they do a lot of summer events. It intersects with the queer stuff, so you get to play on these queer maps and do these fun events. It's so it's just a great time, all right yeah, I say like there was.

Speaker 1

I remember last year you and I literally went around like one whole map just looking for like every pride flag and they literally had every single one. We were like what, the what?

Speaker 2

yeah yeah, they had, like all of them. So yeah, it's. It's a lot of fun, it is a great time of year. I'm very excited to be able to play during pride again this year.

Speaker 3

Yes, yes, dylan, thanks for jumping on with us today. It was super cool.

Speaker 2

I learned a lot about video games no, definitely, and, like I'm, that's good, I'm glad to hear it. I love talking about this kind of stuff and I love talking about gaming in general and getting to like info dump about the things that I know a lot about. So it was a lot of fun to be able to just hop on and have this conversation in general and hang out with you and meet you for the first time.

Speaker 3

Same. So, kit, you want to jump to that fun fact. Are you guys ready to jump to it?

Speaker 1

No, in one moment, oh my goodness. So to lead into our fun fact, I have a book recommendation. Uh, it's called the lgbtq plus history book. It's literally a history textbook of just lgbtq history. It is fantastic. My mom got it for me for christmas and I am obsessed.

Speaker 1

The fun fact today is about the way that homosexual love is still, to this day, described in China, so you will still hear people use this term to this day to describe specifically two men in love, and it is called either the love or the passion of the cut sleeve, and the reason for that is because of an emperor named Ai of Han. So this was like 206 BCE. This is forever ago, right? There's an emperor named Eye of Han and he is in love with his male favorite, dong Zhan.

Speaker 1

One day, the emperor awoke to find Dong Zhan asleep on top of his sleeve and, rather than waking him up because he had shit to do, he's the emperor, he's got to go about his day Rather than waking his love because, you know he had shit to do. He's the emperor, he's got to go about his day Rather than waking his love up. He had advisors come in and cut his sleeve Rather than waking up his love. So he just like slipped his arm out of the sleeve and like left his love, cuddling it. And to this day, homosexual love is described with passion of cutting your sleeve rather than waking your sleeping. Love you.