Healing Within the Black Gay Community: With Jai the Gentleman from Dear Black Gay Men Podcast

In this episode of Tea with TJ, TJ interviews Jai the Gentleman, the host of the podcast Dear Black Gay Men. They discuss the concept of healing and the different ways in which individuals can heal. They also explore the importance of uncovering and embracing all aspects of one's identity, including race, sexuality, and gender. The conversation delves into the healing process in relationships, the challenges faced by black gay men, and the need for forgiveness and acceptance. 

Ultimately, they emphasize the importance of living in the present moment and letting go of past traumas. In this conversation, Jai shares his personal journey of starting the Dear Black Gay Men  podcast after a breakup. He discusses the emotional stagnation he experienced and how he found inspiration to create a platform for black gay men to share their stories. The conversation also explores the importance of creating space for truth and vulnerability, as well as the evolution of Tea With TJ. Jai reflects on the lack of honest and vulnerable podcasts and shares his joy in connecting with listeners and finding beauty in the resilience of black men.

Takeaways

• Healing is a personal journey that involves confronting past traumas and embracing all aspects of one's identity.
• The healing process in relationships requires forgiveness, acceptance, and understanding that everyone is doing the best they can.
• Black gay men face unique challenges in society and need to explore and cultivate all aspects of their identity.
• Living in the present moment and letting go of past traumas is essential for personal growth and healing.

Transcript

TJ: 0:15

Hey friends, it's TJ, and you're listening to Tea with TJ, where our love for tea, conversation and self-improvement intersect, so let's take a deeper dive into my cup and let's have a chat. Hey friends, it's TJ. Welcome back to another episode of Tea with TJ, and today I have a very special guest, a podcaster that I listen to on the regular every Wednesday, dear Black Gay Men, jay the Gentleman. So, jay, if you could just give a quick introduction about yourself and give me a little blurb about the show?

Jai: 0:56

Sure, I am Jay the Gentleman. I have been podcasting for a little under three years now. We started Dear Black Gay Men because I got stood up for a date and I just wanted to talk about it and get all those feelings off my chest. And since then it's kind of grown into just a community of people who are either trying to dive back into dating, are curious about other aspects of Black gay culture, or they're fed up with dating in general and want, you know, a little word of encouragement. So I enjoy the conversations that we have on dear black gay man interesting.

TJ: 1:36

I love that. I don't think I um knew that and I've. I think I started listening to your show back in july last year to the point that I even, like, started from episode one and worked my way through.

Jai: 1:50

You've been on a roller coaster with me, the NTJ? Yes, it's been a roller coaster.

TJ: 1:56

And it's. It's interesting to now know that, because I think it'll actually tie into the subject for today, which is more than one way to heal, and so I'm curious to know your thoughts on what does that actually mean to you specifically?

Jai: 2:13

To heal. Or that there's more than one way to heal.

Jai: 2:17

I think that healing is when I can only think of it in in, in terms of, like dating and, let's say, somebody broke up with you. Healing is when you're able to confront that person, you're able to be in their space, you're able to be in connection with them again on whatever level you're comfortable with and you don't get that kind of sinking pit in your stomach or you have those, you the, you revert back to old feelings, when you, when you can let go of what was and embrace what is, I think that is when you are healed with that in mind, what would you say has been like the biggest lesson you've learned in this, like healing process when it comes to dating everybody's always doing the best they can.

Jai: 3:09

Um, I think that as a culture, as black gay culture, we don't have a lot of uh lessons put in front of us that allow us to, to explore who we are on a really deep level.

Jai: 3:26

A lot of us, a lot of us, you figure out the gay piece and then that's just that. You know, we become gay and there is so much more to each of us than just our sexuality and that usually is weaponized against us to minimize the gay piece. But I think that, that, like as black gay men, I am black, I am gay, I'm a man those three things exist in equal proportion of my life. Now, some of them show up earlier or more, but those three things, you know, impact everything, they're the lens that I see everything through. And so I feel like in our culture we don't have a lot of opportunities, or at least we don't seek out the opportunities to cultivate the black or thing, but we only connect on the gay piece because we just assume that the black and the man part are, are taken care of. And I think that, you know, in order to, in order to for us to be as evolved as possible, we need to to really probe and till the soil of all aspects of our identity.

TJ: 4:50

I completely agree, and that is that puts me in a headspace of just thinking about those three separate identities, and I feel like we have multiple identities, right, we have our personal life, our work life, our family life, if we're talking about being Black, gay and a man, our gay life, our life as a man in this world, trying to just exist in our Black identity, and I think, in thinking about all of those aspects of our lives and our identity, there is a lot of traumatic things to know if any of those other pieces, um, that exist for you personally, like, have you gone through a healing process for any of those?

Jai: 5:53

yeah, definitely, definitely like uh, so vulnerable moment, tj is all. It's a whole bunch of vulnerable moments. So there's that. But when I moved, I moved from Dallas, texas, where I'm from, to Atlanta, georgia, where I live now, and when I moved here I me and my mother hadn't lived in the same time zone in like 15 years. You know, I moved out when I was graduated from high school and then she has her job, took her all over across the country. My life took me all in different places. So we saw each other but we didn't. We didn't have a everyday kind of relationship like we do now, because at the time we lived in the same house, not just the same time zone or city, but the same house, and we had to learn a lot.

Jai: 6:47

And the baggage that I brought into that new relationship with my mother was that I thought that every trial that we went through was because I'm gay, that you know she wanted ill will for the gay pieces of me, because you know I had dealt with so much adversity on every other front of my life, so I just assumed that she was like everybody else, when really she didn't give two shits about the gay part, like I've been gay ever since I was a baby, so she had dealt with that.

Jai: 7:25

But because all I saw was gay trauma, all I gave her was gay responses to everything, and I wanted to rage against this machine.

Jai: 7:33

And what I had to realize is especially to her person, who has known me since moment one of my life and before and before that, she was able to see me on a level that was so much more dynamic than I saw myself. She didn't deny my manliness because I'm gay, or she definitely didn't deny my blackness because I'm a man Like. She saw all these things working together in my life and was addressing me as such, talking to me like you, a grown ass man, like man to fuck up, and I couldn't see it because of the trauma that I assumed stemmed from my sexuality, and so that was probably the beginning of my healing process, the beginning of me figuring out how to make these things work together in my identity. And the more close, the closer that I got to self, the piece of me that is all these things put together, the better our relationship has been ever since a similar situation and I feel like we we probably have backgrounds that are in alignment.

TJ: 8:53

Um, I grew up in memphis, tennessee, yes, um, and was very much a church kid and, like, grew up, you know, with that whole life and also grew up in a single parent home. And it took me a while to finally get to the place where I was comfortable coming out, because of all of that historical baggage, right Of where I grew up in it, and it's, I want to say, maybe like two or three years passed after that initial coming out, in that initial conversation, to where I felt actually 100 percent comfortable around my mom. And it's crazy because, because I grew up with her, like essentially by myself, we already had like a relationship and a connection of like you know, it's me and you against the world type of thing, like even when I moved to New York, I would call her every day and like we would have conversations in, in that, in that headspace of finally saying one I'm, as you know who I actually am and and you spoke about pieces, right, and finally accepting all of the pieces of me and not just the ones that are visible um, it allowed me to start the healing process and I and I will be 100 transparent in this moment and say that it is still in process. We're not there yet, but we're getting there.

TJ: 10:29

Just of like the other pieces of like being a black man in this country and living in new york and being an actor, and like all of these other pieces that um have certain traumatic experiences around them, um, um, I'm curious to know, in looking at self as a whole, right, are there any other pieces of self that you've yet to speak to or are in progress of like continuing the healing process? Like are there any other pieces out there?

Jai: 11:01

Oh, yeah, um, um. I think that when it pertains to sexuality, especially for me, that's a, that's a. Interestingly enough, despite the fact that I do, dear black gay men, I the aspects of my gayness are still to be uncovered. And you said like you're in process of healing. You're always I believe you're always in process of healing, because the second that you get to another level of healing, it makes the previous levels feel so broken. Yeah, like you're able to identify the cracks in the tapestry once you're on the other side of them, and so you should always be healing, I think. And if you ever feel like you've arrived at healing, then you're definitely not there. Yeah, but the aspects of my, my being that are still to be uncovered are how I connect with other people that look and walk and talk like me and walk and talk like me, like, uh, like the other day, I, um, I decide when you're, you know, it's like when you're a content creator, everything is content, everything is content that used to be real on tiktok.

Jai: 12:14

But, um, I wear the hat and, like hoodie or merch, I wear it to the gym or you know random places. I try to treat it like it's any other article of clothing in my closet right. But when I go to the gym, in these very, very black spaces, I get the funniest looks from mostly men, but some women, because, like, sometimes it's the, it's, they're, they're confused, like does it say gay? Like does the shirt say gay on it? Or then they'd be like, am I gay now?

Jai: 12:51

Like you could just see the wheels turning and strike people's heads and actually I was taken aback and I was scared to wear my merch in places that were not like homogenous gay spaces. And then I was like, well, I can't expect other people to buy it if I can't wear it. So let me, let me put it all together and figure out how to get over whatever feelings, whatever discomfort that I'm feeling. And then I started, you know, telling the stories of the awkward looks and whatnot on my Instagram story, so, like I share with everybody else. But the stuff me that like need to be discovered or are yet to be tilled, are all, are all the components that are how I, as a black gay man, interact with other black gay men.

Jai: 13:41

First, because I think we are the best but but also just with the world around me, in, in fully embodying all aspects of my, of my being, like with other black gay men. It's like, how do I, how am I a kinkster? How do I, you know, engage in the things that I like, the, the the pleasure points of my life, in a way that other people aren't going to look at me crazy or when it comes to being, you know, around straight black people. It's figuring out a way that I can be comfortable in myself, in my relationships, in my, in my love situations, if one were to arise and and not feel as if I have to pander to their discomfort. So yeah, like it's just, how do I, how do I live more fully as myself every day is kind of what I'm uncovering in real time.

TJ: 14:34

Been lucky enough to have been in a relationship for a very long time. My relationship does not necessarily look like everyone else's relationship, and so part of this idea of healing, I think, even goes a little bit deeper to the mentality behind how you're viewed in the world, how people view you mm-hmm, you polyamorous and so there are a lot of people you talking about you with somebody that got, you know, a chunk of their skull missing.

Jai: 15:13

Okay, got it, but for us people so are you in relationship with more than one person? Is that what you? Or are you or are you open to that we?

TJ: 15:24

have. I love how this is trained, I mean we. So I have a primary partner and then currently I have a secondary partner, um, that secondary partner has been in the picture for almost two years now, um, but there's space for more. So that's the agreement that we have, that me and my primary partner have, um, and we've allowed for space to get to know other people, to love people, um, without judgment. But getting at.

TJ: 16:01

Is that, for people who look like us, that type of relationship because it's not so quote unquote common there's a lot of judgment that comes with that, right. And so for me, specifically because of how I grew up already dealing with being black, being gay, living in the south there's already all this judgment that is coming at me. And so for a long time I had this idea that my life was supposed to be, you know, linear, right, yeah, it was supposed to look a certain way, it was supposed to sound a certain way, you know all of those things. But as I've gotten older, one, I've realized that life is not like that, life is not linear like we like to think, that just because of chronological age, that life can be linear. But in reality, I feel like I have now probably been able to connect with my child self more than I did when I was a child.

Jai: 16:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, that's a big deal.

TJ: 17:04

And so I say all of that to say that, like there has been, there's been some healing. That has had to happen because of the circumstance that I was in, with the honest conversation that me and my primary partner had when we decided to, to make that a thing, um, so that I was not afraid of judgment and afraid of people's opinions or thoughts or perception of me, because I had all of this kind of like historical baggage of how I grew up.

Jai: 17:34

But I think that's what healing is is being able to go back for an appropriate amount of time. But being able to go back to that experience, look at it subjectively so that you don't you can leave the baggage of it there, like I don't have. Say that we all have childhood trauma. Every single person has some kind of childhood trauma. So I don't want to say that, but I'll say that my my biggest baggage emotionally comes from relationships and I think that I identified myself as as healed as I could be.

Jai: 18:17

When I can go back to those situations whether it was he did something to me or I did something to him and realize that either of us both of us were doing the best we could at the time. There is nothing that could have gone any differently that would have me be here at the same time, because had I done it differently, I would not be who I am today, and I truly believe that everybody and every juncture in life is doing the absolute best they can. It's hard to accept that because, you know, perhaps I could have done better if I were them, but I'm not them. Yeah, they are doing the best that they could and that is what has allowed me to forgive my family for whatever may have come up in our, the microcosm of our family dynamics. It helped me forgive all of my exes, every offense. I know for certain that in that instance they made the best decision that was available to them and if I just live my life from that place then I can never get tremendously offended by people.

Jai: 19:34

Now, people do offensive shit all the time. Can I cuss here? Yes, okay, people do offensive shit all the time, but beyond that I can't personalize it. Aside from that's that's what they felt was best.

Jai: 19:47

That was their journey yeah and one day, hopefully, they will see the offense. But that's not my responsibility to have to teach them yeah, I agree, and it is, it's truly.

TJ: 19:59

It's one of those principles that I think I've picked up probably in the last seven, maybe 10 years, of really focusing on being present and being present at the moment, because, you're absolutely right, you cannot make it, um, uh, from sister Taylor Taylor, uh, lauryn Hill, yes, like you can't harp on the what ifs of life, right, you there, there's no way of knowing Um, so the best thing we can do is to really live moment to moment and be as completely present as you can possibly be, to make those sound decisions and choices in real time, because ultimately and I mean, I don't know how this is going to go, but ultimately it's like what even really matters at that point, right, like if you are thinking about something that happened 5, 10, 15 years ago, but you now have this incredible life in front of you.

TJ: 20:58

Or you have a life that you're trying to work towards having this incredible life, you've missed out on everything in front of you. Or you have a life that you're trying to work towards having this incredible life. You've missed out on everything in front of you because you're so focused on the past and what happened 20 years ago with this one person right, just kind of going along with that idea. Is there a moment in your life, now that you are living presently, is there a moment in your life that you can recall where you kind of were existing in this past moment?

Jai: 21:34

Like like yes definitely Because.

Jai: 21:40

So, like Dear Black Gaming Podcast, I told you it started because it actually started because my ex-boyfriend, who I call Joe, on the show he dumped me and we were together for a year plus, coming up on two years, and in my head he was it like he was the end journey, like the course of my life. In my head he was it Like he was the end journey, like the course of my life was just figuring out how do I be the best man for him. And so I went out one day. My name is Jarrett, that's what J stands for. I went to Jarrett's because I wanted to be able to say Jarrett.

Jai: 22:19

I went to Jarrett's and I bought him a ring and as soon as I was about to drop my credit card to pay for this ring, I heard a voice that says don't do that shit. It was loud as hell don't do that shit. And I'm talking to little sales lady. Because he picked we we had looked at several different kinds of rings that he liked. His taste is very, very different than mine, but you know he picked. I picked out something that was in line, that I would be confident to give to him, that he would like and uh. So when I when I heard the voice, I told the lady. I said can I come back on saturday?

TJ: 22:53

this was a thursday can I come back on?

Jai: 22:55

saturday, and she was like, yeah, this happens all the time. I was like I don't know if it happened the way it happened to me, but okay, and I went home that day. He dumped me, and so now, at that point, I was stuck because our relationship was just set up to where I was the breadwinner, I paid most of the bills, I made the home that we lived in, I paid the rent every month, and now I feel like a foreigner in my own home To go from, about, to ask somebody to marry me and buy a ring and start planning all those provisions. To now I'm sleeping in the guest bedroom of my own house. It rocked me to my core. I got stuck there, and so now the Virgo in me, though, is like okay, now I got to get out of here before the first, because I don't want to pay rent again, and you know I'm making all the plans. But emotionally I was. You know, I just turned the emotions off as soon as he said we're not together anymore. I was like like oh, okay, and I went about my business, but emotionally I was just stunted there.

Jai: 24:08

The kind of pivotal moment that opened it up for me was when I did what we just talked about. I realized that made the best decision that was available to him in that moment. I realized he regretted it because he had tried to get back with me, but he made the best decision available to him in that moment and that really is what inspired the podcast, because I believe that in our culture, black gay men see difficulty and emotional difficulty as signs that we got to get out Right, and a lot of us don't have the language or the tools to work through conflicts, to work through issues, to work through, you know, barriers and and overcome. We just don't have that and that's really what inspired the podcast, because I I wanted to talk about that and I wanted to talk about my journey to figuring that out for an idea get stood up for a day that I was really looking forward to and I was like this nigga I mean let me put up this mic and and tell people this nigga.

Jai: 25:21

I changed his name, as I do with everybody, and I was like let me tell you about this motherfucker. He gonna stand me up, me, me, I mean me. Interestingly enough, god bless him standing me up Because, dear Black KB, this is my livelihood now. Had he not stood me up. Dear sir, who stood me up for that day, who has since asked me out again and stood me up again?

TJ: 25:48

just FYI. Wow, it sounds like Dear Black Gay man has really been the way you've healed and in the three years that you've had the show yes, wow, that's amazing like we started.

Jai: 26:01

I started with when, just you know, sitting in front of a mic for 10 minutes, and then we added in conversations that I have on Thursdays on our YouTube channel. But, my, I really believe that my gift is making people feel comfortable enough to tell the truth and creating space for their truth to matter in a culture that sometimes doesn't say that your truth matters. And so when I sit down and have a conversation with someone, my, of course I know that you know they're doing the best that they can, so I come with that kind of frame of mind, but also I'm looking for the ways in which their story and my story align. What is the common thread between them and me? And I've tried to do that with everybody. Even I've talked to.

Jai: 26:53

You know, I had one guest on my show. He was a white guy from london who was straight, who started this app for people living with hiv, and I was like I don't know nothing about this motherfucker. And then, you know, he started talking and there was something that I could learn from it, and a lot of time well, a lot of times I'm I'm learning. You know this worked for them, so let me see if it works for me when I'm in the in confronted with that same situation. But sometimes it's like this shit obviously is not working for them. So don't do that, jay, like steer clear of them and this situation and all of those things. And so yeah, dear Black Gay Men, sharing stories is how anybody heals, and I think, more often than not, we need to create opportunities to share our own stories, which is probably why Tea with TJ is so amazing. Thank you.

TJ: 27:49

It's crazy, because that's actually kind of how I came to the idea of the show and that's kind of where it started with one idea and then morphed into what exists now. Um, but essentially I I used to have moments like this in person here in new york where, because I'm a tea lover and there are a bunch of places in the city that I go to often, um, anytime I would like finish a job or, like come back from tour, I would meet up with a friend that I hadn't seen in a while and sit and just talk about life and catch up and, you know, have all of these very vulnerable moments, very honest moments. And so last July I think it was, or August, somewhere in between late summer and fall, I sat down and was toying around with some ideas and writing some things down, and, because I also do voiceover work, like I already had all the equipment and I was like maybe I should try just seeing what comes out. Um, and originally it was meant to be just like an audio journal for myself, um, just to give me the space to like express certain things and go back and reflect. But then it started to morph into the actual show and then, when I started to bring guests on at the top of this year is really when I feel like the show has kind of taken a life of its own. The top of this year is really when I feel like the show has kind of taken a life of its own.

TJ: 29:23

Yeah, and being able to give one space to people who have stories to tell that need to be told. But then also and this is just a personal preference and I do not mean this in any kind of way specifically Black people, because I feel like right now, at least for me, I don't see a lot of us in the podcast space, at least not in this way Like it's largely comedic or celebrity driven, but it was. It was hard for me to find shows that were honest and truthful and vulnerable, um, that didn't have a million dollars backing it, you know, didn't have a million dollars backing it, you know, because I ain't that, not you at least, but I completely understand.

TJ: 30:07

Yeah, so I thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly appreciate that and thank you for saying that. Of course, this was amazing. Thank you, but before we go, I have three questions for you, unrelated to the topic.

Jai: 30:31

Answer however freely you would like. Okay, what brings you the most joy? I'm gonna get all deep now because okay, because I have I've been dreaming about I didn't call it a podcast when I dreamt it, but I've been dreaming about I didn't call it a podcast when I dreamt it, but I've been dreaming about doing this for years at least, maybe 15, maybe longer but I've been dreaming about talking to us, about us, for since I can think of anything that I've wanted to do and the idea that I get to do this this is what, you know, keeps the lights on and what pays the bills and I get to experience us, experience Black gay men, black gay people, people, people who love black gay people more often than from behind this mic, but I get to hear our stories from every corner of the world. That brings me joy, like I get.

Jai: 31:43

I remember the first time I got a dm from somebody who said, thank god, I found you and I was like, who me? Like? At the time I I didn't know anything about metrics and numbers and reach, all of that. I just, you know, recorded something, shared it on my Facebook timeline and moved on and went back to work and so um to, to get a DM on Instagram, when I didn't even have my Instagram connected to the podcast, especially. But the fact that this person sought to say thank you and for every thank you that I get they don't know what they did for me the fact that you know them, spending 15 minutes with me on Wednesdays or an hour on Thursday night, however they engage with us, has created a way for me to live out my dream. So, every DM, every share, every crazy comment, every one of them, I count them all joy.

TJ: 32:56

I love that Oof. That was beautiful. What are you most proud of?

Jai: 33:09

Most. That was beautiful. What are you most proud of? Um, most proud of my body. When I was growing up, I was like I was 130 pounds when I graduated high school and I was 137 when I graduated college. So the fact that I've gone from there to this is what I am. I mean, in addition to it's the, it's the more superficial thing that I'm proud of, but I celebrate it every day, and I mean full disclosure, like it.

Jai: 33:41

Had my body not changed, had I not worked on it, I wouldn't have leaned into nudism the way I have, I would not have been as comfortable in leather, I would not have discovered things that I'm genuinely interested in and derive pleasure from, had I not walked myself through a transformation. So my experience as a black gay man has been enriched by the fact that I got thicker, and and having gotten thick helped me understand and appreciate and respect and honor the thickness of other people, like when I was skinny. I used to like skinny boys and I didn't. And if you had, you know, if you were 200 pounds, then hell no. But now I'm 220. And so I can appreciate someone who is skinny. I can appreciate someone who's a lot thicker than me. I can appreciate the big girls, I can appreciate all different kinds of bodies, because my body has undergone a transformation. Now it is one that I have controlled and contributed to, but I've changed, my options changed, but also my perspective changed.

TJ: 34:54

Final question Mm-hmm, where do you find beauty?

Jai: 34:59

in the world In the eyes of black men, Mm-hmm. I think that there's a poem that was on I think it was the Image Awards one year, and one of the lines said black is hard to do and it is Like lesser human beings could not walk in the shoes of Black men. And to know everything that Black men could go through Like my life has been soft compared to a lot of the experiences that I hear from others. But to know all the trauma and the abuse and the insult and the offense that we can and do endure every day, Knowing that and you can still find the light, you can still find the joy, I think that is absolutely beautiful jay, thank you for doing this, thank you for saying yes to this, um in, I will say as, as a listener of your show, um, it speaks volumes to be able to just even sit and have this conversation with you.

TJ: 36:26

So, thank you, thank you so much and, because this conversation is still going, we're going to do a part two. So that is our show friends. Stick around for part two and I'll see you next week. And that's our show friends. Thanks for joining us on Tea with TJ. Please rate, review and subscribe, and you can find us on Instagram at Tea with TJ podcast. And, as always, stay kind, keep sipping and remember we're here, so we might as well do it.