Tea With TJ
Welcome to Tea with TJ! A Podcast on self-discovery where our love for tea, conversation, a deeper understanding of life, and self-improvement intersect. Life is messy and sometimes you just need a cup of tea!
Tea With TJ
Part II Lonnie's Journey to Self-Love and Polyamory
What truly defines your self-worth, and how does it intertwine with confidence? Together with our insightful guest, Lonnie, we unpack these intricate concepts, sharing a transformative gem from his therapist that changed his perspective. While achievements might boost our confidence, self-worth is rooted in loving ourselves just as we are. Listen as we discuss how this understanding influences our ability to form deep, authentic relationships and the hurdles personal history and independence can present in building trust.
Ever wondered about the complexities of polyamory and open relationships, especially through the lens of someone from a marginalized community? Lonnie brings his personal experience to the table, shedding light on the unique challenges and misunderstandings faced by polyamorous individuals. We delve into the emotional rollercoaster of dating in such a framework, the significance of self-love amidst rejection, and why having the right words to express emotions is crucial for personal growth and understanding.
We also explore the fascinating dynamics of non-monogamous relationships, inspired by public figures like Shan Boodram. From public misconceptions to maintaining multiple partnerships, we emphasize the role of communication and consent. Lonnie shares his vision for an ideal polyamorous relationship where autonomy meets connection. Join us for an eye-opening conversation that highlights the joys, challenges, and freedoms of polyamory, providing insights for those curious about or practicing this relationship style.
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Hey friends, it's TJ, and you're listening to Tea with TJ, where our love for tea, conversation and self-improvement intersect. So let's take a deeper dive into my cup and let's have a chat. Hey friends, it's TJ. Welcome back to another episode of TJ. And because Lana's episode was so amazing, we had to split this up into two episodes. So if you haven't watched part one, go back and watch part one or listen to part one. Um, you were in part two of lani's episode and we were talking about relationships. So I just lani, this has just been. You drop in so many gems. Like the last little bit that we ended with in the last episode was your confidence is not equal to your self-worth. Like I don't know where that came from for you, but like that, just it set all in my soul. Can you just share with the folks? If they've missed part one, just give me another recap of what that is.
Lonnie:Sure, sure. So I can't take full credit. For me, it came from a therapist that I'm no longer with, I'm very sad about. So, basically, during the pandemic, I started going to this therapist and you know I was telling her what I wanted to work on. You know how they ask you an intake, and I guess I don't remember exactly what I said.
Lonnie:I think I told I think I was really trying to work on this idea of realizing that I was desiring being in a relationship again, because I had been in a relationship during the pandemic and it allowed me to slow down and I've always been a super confident person, just as context, and so I go into this and as we wrap up, she's like you know, we're going to work on your self-worth. Throughout this process and I was like taken aback, like wait, I'm super confident, like I have a master's degree and you know I'm living in New York city by myself and I have all these cool accomplishments and things, and I feel like I know who I am. And, um, she was like you know, um, yes, you know who you are, you are confident, but your self-worth is not necessarily attached to your confidence, because if your confidence is not grounded in self-worth. They're separate. And through that journey I learned that, oh, I have to learn to love myself and require others to love me, simply because of who I am, not because of what I can produce. And it's a little. It can be a little confusing, because part of who you are is what you've done and you know your accomplishments, and it makes up a whole person. But when we start talking about relationships and our relationship to ourselves, that's when I learned like, oh, I actually have been confident because I've had a lot of external accomplishments I've moved from my hometown, I was the first to go to college, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, good things.
Lonnie:But these things don't necessarily equate to me loving the person that I am. And are you able to be in relationship with someone? This is something I had to learn after I went through it and it's still a challenge for me. It was like, are you able to be in relationship with someone and just sit there and do nothing and say nothing and be yourself and feel like you deserve love?
Lonnie:And subconsciously I didn't know that, I didn't feel that, not that I was filling up every little blank with a person, every quiet moment with noise, but I do think that there was this part of me that felt like people like me because of all of this, whether it's my height or my style it wasn't so much about they like you because of who you are. So that led to me being the type of person who always, sort of like, showed up at a high level. You never saw me down, you never saw me upset, you never saw me, and that was that's very unhealthy for a person, because all of us have moments. So I wasn't showing up. I was, in a lot of ways, I wouldn't say I was performing, but I was leaning more heavily onto accomplishments versus hey, if you're like, I just deserve to be loved because I'm me and it's my birthright, and then there's all the other stuff that comes with it. So, yeah, that's that's kind of you know the lesson.
TJ:Sweet Lord. Um, I am curious to know from you, cause I've had experiences like this of my own but where does trust fall for you when you are and I don't even want to restrict this to romantic relationships, because I think there's a certain level of trust that has to exist in professional relationships, community relationships, creative relationships when does trust fall for you when it comes to engaging with people?
Lonnie:Wow, Wow, you really tapped in somehow, because trust is something that comes up a lot in relationships for me, not so much in the sense of like how some people like don't trust and they all look through phones or things like that, not like that. But it's very hard, tj, to break through the layers to get into an intimate relationship with me. I'm just going to be real about that. It's something that I won't say I denied for years, but it's something that's come up enough for me to say it's true. So trust shows up in the sense that, even going back to the example in the first episode about that coworker, that special relationship with that Black coworker that I didn't trust it not because of something they did, but just my experiences don't really allow. I had to be super independent at a super young age. So, growing up with a single mom, I had to work and stuff like that. Like I was really safe and taken care of, but I had to grow up and I was the only child. So I think that leads to a lot of trust in myself. And so when it comes to relationships, because I have so much trust in myself and I'm so in tune with who I am, it's very difficult to let someone in. So it's very hard for me to trust new situations and people's intentions. I think that's where trust, to your point, shows up, whether it's professional, personal or romantic. I'm really untrusting of people's intentions which I can't control, which I'm continuously working on that. But I can't stand the idea of someone having bad intentions or trying to hurt me, which I think most of us, most of us feel that way and I have been hurt, you know, by people that I trusted, of course, so that adds to it. So I would say that's where trust shows up. But this is another gag that might gag you and gag me too. Not that I take self-responsibility for everything, but I do think self-responsibility is important.
Lonnie:Tabitha Brown actually said this random about cooking Cause she was saying she has a book called cooking from the soul and it doesn't have measurements. And she said if you need measurements, you don't trust yourself in the kitchen. And I think in the same way with trust, as much as we try to put it on the other person, I don't trust you because I don't know your intentions. The question is, do you trust yourself? Right? So I have to trust that if I'm forming a relationship with TJ that either my sense of my indicators and discernment are going to go off and say this is a person not worthy trusting or something, so that lack of trust actually comes from a lack of trust of self. So I had to learn to I'm learning to apply the trust I have in myself to allow me to be more vulnerable when it comes to opening up to new experiences. But it's a journey. I'm not I'm not perfect at it at all.
TJ:I get it. I'm still working through it every single day of my life and I think, even dear god, um, even in one. I want to acknowledge that this show has been a space for me to be vulnerable with other people and somehow, um the the intention behind it was not to have vulnerable moments with people. That was not what I wanted to do necessarily, like. I very much wanted to just have moments with people. That was not what I wanted to do necessarily Like. I very much wanted to just have conversations with people that were interesting and things that felt similar to the types of conversations that I have with friends in New York city at my favorite tea shop. But what I've realized in doing this now for three seasons, um, two of which with guests, is that, for for most people, um, entering into this space with me and having a moment of vulnerability has has one connect, like forged a deeper connection between the two of us. Um, most of them generally have been friends or someone that I've like connected with and like wanted to continue to pursue that connection with them. Um, but in each of those moments they've cracked open these like kind of like life insights, right, uh, and I've learned a lot from the people that have shared moments with me and then I've shared stuff with them, and even in this moment, hearing you speak, I'm like shit, yeah, that that trust is so much more about self than it is the other person and the discernment of like the be done or wanted to be done, and so I had to do it myself. Right, even with being in a relationship and I think now the place that I sit is similar to you of I'm more concerned about. I'm less concerned about the lie or like the the. I don't trust you per se and I'm more concerned about what is your actual intention with me, or this relationship or whatever connection that we're having. Right, because I'm trying really hard to be intentional with everyone that I encounter.
TJ:Right, so I've it's funny because I had this conversation with someone that I was talking to a few weeks ago and it it shaped our relationship, but I was, I told them, I was like you know, I'm trying to be very intentional with you, specifically because we've never met before. Right, I'm very interested in you, I want to know more about you. There's something here that I can sense that, like the moment we met, I felt a spark. Right. And even in that of them, like acknowledging that they were still very closed, and I tried to express I'm like, hey, I'm trying really hard to be open with people and like forge connections and get to know people, like you don't have to pretend with me, I don't care what, whatever version of you that can show up, that's the version I want.
TJ:I don't have to pretend with me, I don't care what whatever version of you that can show up, that's the version I want. I don't want this, this presentational version of you. I want the actual version of you, because that is what's going to ultimately shape my opinion of you and shape whatever relationship forms from this moment. And unfortunately they were too. I'm not trying to spill anybody's tea, but they unfortunately it's called the tea with TJ, let's get it.
TJ:And we had to part ways, which was unfortunate because I found them very interesting and, um, I could see the love and care that existed there and I just I wanted them to to just actually show up for themselves, not for me, but yeah, you.
Lonnie:I mean this is this is related to what you said, but also something that came up as you were talking, that you, just you, just you just uncovered thinking about relationships. A lot of it has to do with our desires and what we want to happen, like even going back to the, to the example of speaking to a stranger and not want. Your desire is to connect, not be rejected. For you, I like this person. My desire is I hope this works, not that it doesn't the person, the friend I had that I said hey, I like you romantically. My desire is for it to go well, whatever that looks like. And I think that us, especially as men but I mean, I don't want to overgeneralize, but I'm just speaking about queer men that's the only queer Black man, women of color who I date I think that that's where a lot of our processing and healing gets paused. Is that we don't focus on what our desire was gets paused is that we don't focus on what our desire was because it's easier to react to the behavior or the result of it and ignore your desire. And this is a whole nother thought that I have about black men and desire, and I think part of that is because we aren't. We often aren't axed what our desires are in the world. We don't have time for that because we're too busy trying to save the world and be masculine and do all these things. I don't think we really have, typically, historically, had enough space and time to say what do I desire. Because when I, when I talked about violence and rejection with men in the first episode that's where that comes from is that the only way a man can be man can be, there's men who have unalived women or men because they didn't want to take their phone number. So that is a disconnection with what they desired versus what the behavior was. So instead of sitting with yourself and saying, wow, this was a really beautiful woman walking down the street and I came up to her in a way that I thought was appropriate and she didn't want to talk to me, instead of sitting with the disappointment of that loss or focusing on yourself, you externally react to this person, and so I'm proud of you for even what you said with that last situation, being able to say I'm disappointed because I really like this person. I thought it could go here and I think we've gotten to a place with dating, and I know we haven't really specifically talked about dating strictly yet, but I think we've gotten to a place with dating where we're so desensitized to even admitting that we want something, that we want it to work, that we were disappointed. Everyone wants to be so strong and I've played a role in this too, so I'm not taking myself out of that where we're just like whatever there's. There's so many people out in the world Like that person didn't like me, whatever. Yeah, two things can be true, though. Now I've learned that like, yes, there are other people and I'm not going to sell my soul to to somebody to make them like me. But I can also say this didn't work out and I can also hold at the same, at the same weight, if not more. That was really fucking disappointing.
Lonnie:I'm tired of dating and I thought I found the one. I thought or not found the one, because I don't really believe in that, but you get my point. You know, when you get into that groove with somebody, you're like, wait a minute, this might work out. Yeah, and I actually had a situation like that last year where I had gone on a few dates with this guy and again, not to spill the beans. But hey, it's not really a personal thing, but we went on these dates and this person was polyamorous, so they had a partner. So I was know, I was excited, tj, because you know I have identified as Polly more than I practiced it.
Lonnie:So it's very difficult for me to come into contact with Polly Black men, especially so they had this relationship. They were open, we went on dates, they were traveling, we went on like two dates. It wasn't even a lot. I was really starting to grow fond of this person. I'm like yo, like we have some communication issues, but whatever, like when we got together it was cool. I felt like he like kind of checked off a lot of things and so we had had this date, which was probably maybe our third date, and he had came over and I made dinner and I like got flowers and like I did the whole thing. Which again, I hate when people like say they regret doing things. If you, if you can't regret something that you did from your heart, genuinely, so if you gave somebody flowers and then they that same day said they don't want to talk to you anymore, you gave them flowers out of your heart, hopefully, and not just because you wanted them to be there.
Lonnie:That's a whole nother self-worth thing that we can talk about later. But anyway, after that day he just told me like he doesn't feel a romantic slash, sexual spark for me and I was really disappointed. I was like what? Like there was no sign. You know, I've also been taking a lot more slow sexually in terms of like, how soon? So like, sometimes that, I think, shows up for people as like you're not interested, which is a whole nother story about attraction and desire for people.
Lonnie:But that was hard because I thought it was going well. There's nothing like thinking something's going well and there's no sign that somebody's just like oh, I'm not interested, you're like what, what happened? So that can be, it can be rough, but when you have to your point, a sense of self, self-care, you know there's nothing wrong with you just because something didn't work out. And I think a lot of people feel like that something's wrong with them when something doesn't work out and it leads to, you know, a trickle effect or domino effect of them, you know not dealing with the core issue, which is self-love.
TJ:Yeah, I think that's a that's. That's a problem that exists amongst all of us of not really figuring out or feeling like there is something wrong with us when we face rejection in all facets of life when in reality it usually has nothing to do with you. I'm curious if you're OK to touch on it. We've not talked about the polyness of all of this in. This is part two.
Lonnie:So let's get into the polyness.
TJ:Yes, so what has been your? What has been your experience as a polyamorous person?
Lonnie:You know what it's been hard, TJ, I'm not going to lie to you. I would say it's easy in the sense that I always like to say life gets easier and harder when you can put words to something that you feel internally. And I'll go back to my example about teaching youth about attraction, right. Imagine how much easier a lot of Black gay men especially like gay children, right, or curious whatever, like yourself, growing up in the South, you know, or wherever, if you just if they just had words for their internal feelings. And that just goes beyond attraction. Think about violence. Think about I'm jealous, that's why I'm bullying people. Think about violence. Think about I'm jealous, that's why I'm bullying people.
Lonnie:Naming how you feel is really important for all humans. So I'd say, on one hand, it's been really easy to be Polly or identify as P. In my experience in our community, there's either two kind of perspectives towards it. I think there is a community of poly, queer folks, but they aren't necessarily always people of color, this underground world, because of the social response to it being typically negative, or there is this negative response, or so there's three. And then lately I've been feeling like, especially online, that people almost speak about open relationships and poly, like it's's very common and like everybody's open. When I opened my app and I'm just like that's not really true Not that I can say that someone's personal experience isn't true for them, but I think it's the the idea of when you don't want something, it feels like there's a lot of it and I'm like I can tell you as a poly person there's not a lot of it, Right, or at least it doesn't come my way. But I think it's like this example I heard years ago if you are a size medium and your best friend is a size 2X and you go to the mall or they go to the mall and they come back to you and they say, like yo, like I never see a 2X in the store, that's so frustrating. And you say I see two X's all the time. There's this thing and it's like this whole psychological thing. It's like a real thing where you think you see a lot of two X's because it's not your size, You're a medium. So you saw one two X and you're like they're everywhere. It's like no, they're not. The person that's two X is telling you that they're not. That's how I feel about poly. It's like people I'm like, I'm telling you that's not my experience. But so, yeah, it's been hard because I feel like and this is I don't think this is a controversial take, but I'll just say it A lot of I'd say generally, men of color tend to hold onto heteronormative values when it pertains to romantic relationships and that equates to monogamy, and so, while there are gay men who are out their value system, going back to values again, I've learned not to judge values but to also note which ones are important to me.
Lonnie:I can't be with somebody that their top column of value in relationships is monogamy, Even if we're in a monogamous relationship. People don't understand that because I can still do monogamy. People get confused. It's like being bi, Like people act like bi. People can't date one gender at a time. It's really weird. Like I'm like. It doesn't mean that they always need both genders. It's same for me.
Lonnie:I could be in a monogamous relationship, but I can't be in a monogamous relationship with someone who values monogamy so high as a construct that it's that important to them because it's not important to me. So that's been my experience. It's been hard. I've had little glimmers of hope in terms of like, meeting poly people, meeting open people who, people who are not poly but open to having a poly partner. But it's been through and far in between and I'm really open about it and forthcoming about it, which I think to some in some ways I guess works not to my detriment because I value authenticity, but because I talk about it so much, it's on my profiles when I'm on dating apps and stuff like that. I'm very clear about it because I've been in situations where people say they're open to it and then when it really gets down to it I don't know if you've experienced this they're not really open to it, they're just like you.
TJ:Sweet Lord. You know I've had a few experiences. So my partner and I my primary partner, which is and I had a discussion with Jay, the gentleman from Dear Black Gay Men, where this conversation kind of got birth and I've stopped using the primary partner language because the perception of that is like, well then, how does the other person feel if they are also your partner, but being called a secondary and I'm like it's just the language that was picked up when this came to be, it's poly language, yeah.
Lonnie:Yeah.
TJ:But when? So my partner and I have been together since 2007. And around I think it was like 2014 is when we discovered the whole idea of poly and engaged with someone else who we had been friends with, who we both had a mutual attraction to and decided to like, engage in that, and it really opened up a whole world of things because, for the first time in our relationship as adults, we both were like, oh, we can still have just as much love for each other and like or love someone else, and that doesn't discredit the relationship that we have, because this whole societal thing of, like, this heteronormative situation between two two gave in means that, like, monogamy is the only way to have a relationship. When I'm like, that's not true, um, because realistically, we already do it in our everyday life with everybody else, like your best friends, your, you know, creative and professional relationships that exist. Those are all relationships outside of your monogamous relationship, right? So why can't we have, why can't both things be true, right? Why can't I be just as in love with you as I am with the person that we met two weeks ago or four months ago or a year ago or whatever? But then also, we have the ability and capacity to love someone together. Right, it's been interesting because I agree with you.
TJ:There are people who say that they are interested in it and want to explore it and are fine with you know, whatever, but the moment things happen, or start to happen, their egos get in the way and there is a list of things that are now non-negotiable. Right, I've encountered a lot of digital people in the world, like people on the apps and like other dating apps that will approach me and have not read a single line in the bio or a single line on the profile. And the moment I bring it up because I also similar to you, I'm always very upfront about it, because I don't want to mislead anybody I want to very much say hey, I'm in a, I'm in a relationship. These are the rules, this is what we have set in place, just so you're aware. If you want to continue to engage, great. If not, that's also OK, because I'm like I'm not necessarily searching for something else, especially, especially on the apps.
TJ:I feel like that's what the perception is is that you're out here searching for something else or trying to replace or, you know, trying to maneuver or navigate something and like be sneaking on. I'm like, no, actually I'm not. Uh, I'm like he has a profile and he's sitting next to me right now like, yeah, probably he has the necking each other on the grid, um. But it's interesting because I agree with that whole um concept of the the 2x versus medium. Like people seem to only see what they don't have or want, and it's until what is actually in front of them, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh well, actually, no, I'm good, that's it.
Lonnie:Yeah, it's been a, it's been a mess yeah, and I think for me, and I think you know and again this is me using myself as an example of what even my, my theory about the 2x and the medium is that being single versus being in a relationship as poly, I I perceive that it's harder for a single person because I'm solo, poly, I'm single, and I feel like the people who are open to poly their first connection to it usually is a couple that's open. So for some reason, I feel like people can understand it if you're in a relationship and it's like okay, you're in, you're open, like you either have a visceral reaction to it but they get it. But like when I me being single, it's like people have told me like I don't even know you yet and I got to think about like getting in a you know, getting in a relationship with you and then thinking about adding somebody else. So that has been hard for me. But, like I said, for me, my whole experience with probably putting a word to what I was feeling and this is so funny going back to, like, high school. Maybe I remember the whole Will and Jada stuff. This was way before. What is his name, the, the situationship or whatever the entanglement. This is the happen recently.
Lonnie:Remember that used to always be rumors about them being swingers and I remember when that whole gossip was going around, it never felt like something that was wrong to me. I always was, like, what are y'all so up in arms about? Like, if they're consensually I didn't have the language yet, but I it never felt like oh or, and that just always stuck with me. I didn't know about Polly or what it meant, but I'm like, well, if they're married and they just happen to go to these swinger parties and have fun, like whose business is that and why does it matter? And that's where I think the spark started for me.
Lonnie:And then I found this sexologist, shout out to Shan Boodram. I don't know if you follow her. Shan Boodram is this like young sexologist and she and her partner, who's now her husband. She had an episode of her YouTube channel where she talked about how they were poly because her ex-boyfriend had hit her up to like meet with her, to like just have a conversation. And she brought it up to her partner and they just basically realized that like, hey, like we let's talk about everything, you know, if we want to go meet with somebody or do something or go on a date and they just became poly. And I started looking into it and I'm like this really resonates. But yeah, I agree with you, it's been.
Lonnie:It's that's a heartbreaking one, I'll tell you. When you tell somebody I know you probably go and do this too you tell somebody that you're poly and then they accept it and you're like, ooh great, like let's go. And then, as you start getting into the reality especially you having a partner I know it's different for you because you you have someone else you have to consider. I don't so like this, like, oh, your time being split or whatever that may look like then they're like, oh, maybe I don't want to do this, and that's even that's been the more hurtful situations, cause I'm like well, I told you and you know you said you were cool and like why are you not?
TJ:cool.
TJ:Now I will say it's very interesting for the type of relationship that we have now compared to when we first started this, because there are people that I've dated and have engaged with that like, yes, have been a part of like the three of us, but also completely separate, um, and they've had no interaction with them Like one of one of the things that I try to think about when I'm engaging with people is that if I'm choosing to spend some time with you, I'm choosing to spend time with you, like the outside world does not exist unless you want it to exist.
TJ:But if we're, if we're on a date, if we're having dinner, if we're grabbing drinks or whatever, that time is our time, and I think it's hard for people to grasp that concept in the back of their mind, still knowing that there is someone still attached to me, right, one of the first someone that, like I've, we started dating and have become more friends now, um, but one of our first encounters I was like you know, if you have no interest in like getting to know him, that doesn't have to be a part of this equation and for about three weeks, anytime, we were together like no phone calls, no texts, none of that.
TJ:Like we hung out a bunch and they had never seen him and they finally were like wait, is there someone? Like is there actually someone else? I was like, yeah, like if you want to meet him, you can, but, like my goal is to is to give you. My intent behind all of this is to give you the time and attention, because this is happening between the two of us, like, again, if you want something else to happen, that can happen. But, like I'm all about, you know, face-to-face time with with the individual that I'm talking to.
Lonnie:Yeah, yeah, I love that. That's. That's the kind of relationship I want, my and I'll ask you I'll give you my perfect scenario relationships, you know situation and I'm interested to hear, if you're open to it, um, what your boundaries and rules are with your partner, because I feel like that's very interesting and I think something that hopefully people can take away from this is that poly relationships are not monolithic, just like monogamous ones. Or there's monogamous relationships where a guy or a person can go hang out with their boys and there's and go on vacation with their friends, and there's some where where where they don't. But I feel like when it comes to poly, they try to put us all in one box, like, oh, we're just sluts, we just like to have sex with a bunch of different people, and there's no rules, everything goes, and we're just like not satisfied and we're always searching for something else, which is not actually true.
Lonnie:But for me, my ideal situation is that I would have two partners. I don't want a primary partner. To your point, I'm, I'm, I consider myself solo poly and, for those listening, solo poly means that I consider myself as my primary partner. So I don't really want any hierarchy, like I don't want to live with the person or whatever. But I want to have two boyfriends. To your point. That's separate. They know about each other, they, they, you know, they. They know that I'm Polly and it's all open. But like I don't necessarily, I don't need them to engage, I don't necessarily want to be in a throuple if I'm creating it. Interestingly enough, I feel like I could be in a throuple if I was invited into one. But I don't necessarily, I don't think I would build one, I'm just going to say that throuples vacations are a lot cheaper, but yes, listen, bills, bills, the way this economy is set up, divided by three, come on now.
Lonnie:So that's sort of my goal when I talk to people. That's what I tell people. You know, that's that's the ideal for me. I think I'm interesting that you brought the thing up about anchor partner, cause I do think that, like for some reason in your poly journey, I think everyone's relationship to anchor partners changes. Mine has changed a bit. At first I was like, no, I don't want to anchor partner. As you just heard, my ideal situation is not to have one.
Lonnie:But I had a conversation with someone that I was dating once that shifted a little bit because they said because sometimes again, I can admit I can be a little because I'm so independent and like I was an only child, I often don't always think about the other person. I know that sounds bad, but listen, I'm here to be honest. I don't always think about what someone else needs to be happy. Now, of course, if what they need goes beyond my boundaries, I can't do it, but sometimes it's hard for me to compromise. I'm just going to be honest and with this person, what I found out from this relationship was that, oh, you needed something that I don't necessarily need as highly as you need it, and some people just need the, especially in a poly situation.
Lonnie:They need that like title, that it gives them a sense of safety that it doesn't give me. But over the past year or two I've sat with myself and said, if my partner needs to be the anchor partner, I think I'm open to having that conversation now, because if they're able to express that, hey, I know this is not like as big of a deal to you, but as for me to feel grounded in this, it would make me satisfied, or it would. It would do something for me, for me to be the primary partner, and I'm like, oh I, now I can see that you know more than I could before and I'm open to it Interesting.
TJ:Yeah, I I find myself to be, especially in now, in like the last like seven or so years. I'm a very nomadic person and I don't necessarily need like a home base per se. Uh, even in like living situation, I think, just with being a performer and like constantly going on tour and all that stuff, I'm okay to live out of a suitcase, I'm okay to like pack my shit up and leave in two days if I have to. So there's less of that that I think exists in our relationship currently, whereas in the beginning, because we met when we were so young, that was a huge thing to be and I think that goes back to this heteronormative way of being that we were all taught that like this is how life is supposed to look. But as we both gotten older and kind of like further developed our own careers and our lives, we've both come to this realization that come home to someone.
TJ:But also, I think, because we've been together so long and because of where our relationship is now I'm sorry, I did not mean for that to happen um, because of where our relationship lives now that's not as um, that's not as a, that's not much of a core value for us anymore, um, as a collective yeah, it's funny you brought up boundaries, because that was going to be my next question to you. At this present moment, there are very few boundaries left for us, and I don't mean that in a negative way. I think we are just because we've been together for so long. Because we've been together for so long, there are certain things that don't affect us that, I think, would affect younger couples or younger, younger throuples or, you know, polycues or whatever.
Lonnie:Yeah, probably to the binary, to the binaries. So is it more like if you all meet someone, it's every. Every new person is like more of a K, a new, not a case study, but it's like I'll talk to them and engage and see where this is going. And then, or is there like a rule, like hey, cause this is what I'm super curious about Is there a rule around when you start talking to someone, cause I find that interesting, so talking to someone because I find that interesting. So I've met some poly people who say my partner has to let me know, like hey, I met this guy named lani on the train today and I thought he was cute. Whatever we went, we might chat, and some are like I don't have to tell my partner until it becomes something. We're about to have sex or, excuse me, go on a date. Like, what are your rules around?
TJ:like the new person it's funny because it's different for both of us. So for me, okay, I more so want to know if you're engaging sexually with someone else. Uh, for him it's all about emotions. Uh, he very much is like if this is getting serious to the point where you want to invite them over, let me know. Or if this is someone that, like, you're going to be spending lots of time with, let me know. Um, so that's interesting because I feel like usually people are very much like I want to know everything from the beginning. You know, tell me all the details, I don't want to be left out. Um, whereas for us it's not even, it's not even about that. And I think, because we both, we are in in our polyness with, especially with engaging with people separately, that looks completely different for the both of us, yeah, whereas some things with him are more so intimacy via a friendship.
TJ:Mine is connection with people, like, yeah, what's what's unique about you, what's like cool about you that, like, no one else has? Right, like what, what can we sit and talk for hours about? What can we go out and do today when it's raining in new york city, like those are the types of things that I'm like oh, I do want to experience this with this person. Um, there was a moment in time where I was like dating an artist and we went to museums. I was like that's cool. I've never been with someone who's like a visual artist, um, so like stuff like that. Like our, our poly expression is completely different. Um, and it's also different when we're dating someone together, like that's a whole different.
Lonnie:You know, yeah, um, so, so it sounds like it's pretty. I hate to use the term open because it's so overly used, but it sounds like it's pretty open in the sense that you guys, you sometimes play together, you play separately or, if it gets serious, you even have you dated the same person before as well. Absolutely.
TJ:Yeah, yeah, the first person we dated together was the reason we became poly. Ah, I love that. It was intimate at first and then it turned into a relationship, and that's how we discovered that we were polyamorous.
Lonnie:Y'all were both like listen, wait a minute, let's listen. That's how you know it was fire, that session was fire. Y'all looked over like hmm, I love that, I love that.
TJ:And then the second one was more recently. Uh, we're friends now. We're not like together together, but we were a throuple for about a year gotcha.
Lonnie:That's cool, that's super cool. It's interesting that you mentioned the emotional versus sexual, because I think even like, uh, monogamous people talk about that. When it comes to cheating, like I feel like people and that's when I hear it most for monogamous folks is like they talk about, like yo, I don't care if my girl cheats, as long as it's just sex. Like go ahead and just come back home to me. And there's other people who are like actually, if you are texting and lovey-dovey with somebody, that's worse than being sexual, and so it's very interesting that you brought that up because I think that is very interesting for me. I'm more of a sapiosexual, so intellect is super important to me. So that's another layer to why being poly is different for me, because I've been with people who have been like if you just wanted to have sex with other people, I could probably be more open to it. But I actually want two real emotional relationships, like I want to be boyfriends, because I kind of need that for the sexual part. Like not not always, but ideally I want to be engaging, like that. I want to have less casual encounters and more depth and, um, I could even see myself I thought about this before having one partner that I wasn't even sexual with. Like that, it was just emotional and maybe they were a side or maybe they were abstinent, or maybe they had another partner where they had sex. I think I want more of the mind and I I always say I'm being real boner, I'm in this bone, I think, because I'm about to turn 40. I feel like I'm just like saying you know how they say older people, not that 40 is so old, but still I'm growing. You know how they say like older people just say whatever and I don't care. I feel like I'm getting there and, um, I feel like my toxic trait is that I want to fuck someone's mind, which is like I think you know some people just want to use like physical things.
Lonnie:I think, like I want somebody to be in love with me. Like are you crazy? Like it's me, like, why would you want to be in love with me? Think that can have a deeper connection sometimes than just casual sex. But like I'm, like no, you need to like me, you need to know that I'm a cool ass person and like be into me.
Lonnie:And so, to your point, I see myself in my future relationship because I can only dream and write it down. Um, is that I? I would want to. I'm kind of like you. I don't think I would need to know that you met somebody, but I just want to. I want the relationship to not feel like you have to hide it. If you want to tell me like, like that's really the most important thing to me Like you don't, I don't think it would be a hard boundary. Like, oh, my goodness, you met some guy and you didn't tell me, I don't care Like, but if you're going to start dating them or, like you said, being, you know, being around them more, let me know my vision for my relationship, whether it's monogamous or not, tj, is that we have open communication where you want to. You know, I always think about it like this. I used to be like really grossed out by the idea when people used to say, like, my partner is my best friend but now I get it, now that.
Lonnie:I'm older, I'm like I get it, cause when I think about my best friend, I get it.
Lonnie:Now that I'm older, I'm like I get it Because when I think about my best friend, I can't wait to tell him everything, because we're going to laugh about it, we're going to have a story about it. I'm going to say I met this guy at the gym and that's what happened. Or there was a really cute boy that was the maintenance man, and we laugh about that. I want to come home, or I don't really want to come home because I'm like I'm with you, like I've just I just met this guy and he was cute, and like you want to see the picture or whatever the thing is between us. I just want that to be a thing, cause I've lived a life where I couldn't do that Um, and it doesn't feel good to have these like interactions or feelings and you can't tell your partner and I don't think that has anything to do with poly, and I think a lot of monogamous people will learn a lot from that Like just being open to what your partner really is going through and experiencing, versus the image of them.
TJ:That's a whole nother.
Lonnie:I'm trying to split this up to a million parts, but absolutely it's good to hear you break down and thank you for being open about that Cause. I feel like we don't hear the intricacies of people practicing Pali and like what that could look like and the freedom in it and the and the challenges in it, but also you know that there is a way for you to create what you want to create and that's. That's really what's the most important thing in my opinion, absolutely.
TJ:And I hope that, um, I hope this has been helpful for folks who listen or watch that are poly or considering being polyamorous, um, who don't necessarily feel representative, uh, represented um, you know, in the in the social spaces like social media or YouTube, or, you know, on podcast platforms. Um, I hope that this has been like, helpful and informative and, you know, giving you a peek into folks who look like you um, because that has been my number two goal on TVTJ to give voice to um creators and people who look like us, absolutely. So, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, lonnie, for doing this. I'm baffled, I'm like gobsmacked. You know we were able to do this in two parts.
Lonnie:We did that.
TJ:So before we get into our last three, where can the folks find you?
Lonnie:Absolutely so. You can find me on all social media platforms at my name, just Lonnie Woods the third. So spell it out T H, e, t H I R D on Instagram and on Tik TOK. I do a lot of thrifting and self-styling content on there, so having fun over there on TikTok and also my podcast, what I Did Wrong you can find. Just search that wherever you find your podcast and your music. And yeah, feel free to reach out on me on any of those platforms. And I am single, not that this is a pitch, but, as I said, here I am, there you go. Pitch, but as I said, here I am, there you go.
Lonnie:This isn't a pitch, but wink wink, hit me up.
TJ:Slide in my DMs. You never know who's going to see it. You miss all the shots. You don't take y'all. So for our final three, we'd love to just give a negative knowledge to the audience. How do you practice gratitude?
Lonnie:to the audience. How do you practice gratitude? Wow, that's a great question. How do I practice gratitude? I think that gratitude for me shows up when I accomplish something that I once wished for. You know how sometimes they say, whether you're religious or not, people say like you're living the life you once prayed for. I don't necessarily believe in it like that because I'm not religious, but when I do something that I manifested or I thought about a long time ago and it's like, wow, that just happened, I think that's where gratitude shows up for me. So I practice it by honoring the moment that I manifest through, you know, believing in myself or believing in an idea.
TJ:I love that. Where do you find love?
Lonnie:I find love. This sounds cliche, but within myself, within this idea that I deserve love, I think is a source of love in and of itself, and I think that that kind of goes into what we talked about today is that we do experience love from others, from ourselves. But love also is something that exists outside of all of us. It's something that just exists so you can grab and take a piece from it and exist in it. So I think the biggest source of love is just me, and how I show up and treat others, I think is really a big expression of that.
TJ:I love that. And then final question when do you find beauty in the world?
Lonnie:Oh, I find beauty in leaning into the things that I like that society says I shouldn't like, because the question isn't if I like it, it's am I afraid that someone else will judge me for liking it? And that is where I find the strength to lean into that, because it's like no, you actually like that. You just are afraid of what someone else might say about you liking it or the judgment that may come from it.
TJ:That was perfect, that was beautiful.
Lonnie:Thank you.
TJ:Oh, my gosh Again. Thank you, thank you, thank you for doing this. This has been amazing. I couldn't have asked for a better guest Happy to be here. And with that, friends, I will see you next week and that's our show. Friends, thanks for joining us on Tea with TJ. Please rate, review and subscribe, and you can find us on Instagram at Tea with TJ Podcast. And, as always, stay kind, keep sipping and remember we're here, so you might as well do it.
