Navigating Life with a Spinal Cord Injury w/ Anna Sarol

Ever had to navigate a venue with a disability? Ever consider the challenges that disabled individuals face each day? Join me, Wesley Hamilton, as I sit down with my brave and inspiring friend, Anna Cyril, a spinal cord injury survivor turned passionate disability advocate. Together, we tackle the everyday nuances of living with a disability, from the vital importance of emergency preparedness to the often-overlooked aspects of attending events.

Anna sheds light on her personal journey, highlighting her educational challenges, her transition from high school to college, and how she's turned her experiences into a powerful voice for the disability community. We dive beneath the surface of air travel and explore it from the lens of a disabled passenger, uncovering the complexities and emotional toll of airline accessibility for wheelchair users. Anna's resilience and determination are a testament to the strength of the human spirit, and her story serves as a beacon of hope for all navigating life with a disability.

In our conversation, we underline the critical role of disability laws and debunk the myths surrounding them. We emphasize the need for advocacy and the potent influence that individual stories can wield in shattering societal barriers and promoting inclusivity. Anna's tireless advocacy for an accessible and inclusive future is the representation the disability community needs. So, listen in and join us on this enlightening journey, and let's build a more inclusive future together.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:07

In a world where success often steals the limelight, the stories that truly inspire, that truly matter, are left behind in the shadows. I'm your host, Wesley Hamilton. Welcome to the Out of the Shadows podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:24

One of the most frequently asked questions that I get is do I wish to walk again? And it's not the fact that I'm unable to use my legs, it's not the fact that I can't run or jump or climb anymore. It's the fact that there's these society barriers that are preventing me from living a full life. What's up everybody.

Speaker 1: 0:49

This is Wesley Hamilton. Welcome to another episode of Out of the Shadows, where I am truly, truly, you know grateful to have Anna. I don't want to say your last name wrong, I know I always pronounce it the way I want. But yeah, yeah, yeah, let's like cover it now. Say it one more time.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Cyril.

Speaker 1: 1:08

Cyril. See, there we go right. I'm like when people see it, when people see the name, I hear people pronounce it all the way different. So I want to set the tone down and say you know what we're going to have Anna mention her last name. But no, I'm grateful to have Anna Cyril here. She's a great friend of mine and we'll get that going here in a second. But if you don't know Anna, you're going to be truly inspired by her story today.

Speaker 1: 1:38

Today's conversation is basically focused on navigating life after a spinal cord injury. Me and Anna have kind of went through a lot of trials and tribulations when it comes to our injuries and we have become, I would say, driving forces and disability advocacy. Anna does a lot of work when it comes to social media, keynote speaking and being more of an influence and not just an influencer, and I think that her story alone is something that we can all learn from and then understand that, even though something traumatic can happen to you, that you still have life after it, and that life and that path is whatever you create for yourself. It's not necessarily what you have to see from other people. It's truly what you have a heart for and what you create. So again, thank you, anna, for being here and, you know, being on this show with me. I appreciate you and welcome you.

Speaker 2: 2:36

Oh, thank you, Wes. That was such a warm welcome.

Speaker 1: 2:39

Absolutely. So you know, before we go to like any details about your story and really pushing out like the things that you're doing, I have a quick icebreaker for you. So I talk a lot about superpowers and I want to just add so if you had a superpower related to your disability advocacy, what would it be and why?

Speaker 2: 3:09

Oh, that's a good question. I never thought about when it connects to the advocacy part. I guess this relates to my work on social media, but just being able to outreach to people everywhere, like outside of just my environment and the states, but like internationally being able to connect with those people. So I guess the ability to access everyone and to spread a message.

Speaker 1: 3:37

I love that. I love that and I think you do a pretty great job at spreading the message. But, of course, for people that don't know the reason why you have focused on disability advocacy, we love you to kind of take the floor and share a little bit about your story. What got you more into disability advocacy and, yeah, in the direction and path that you're on today.

Speaker 2: 4:02

Yeah, so, for those of you who don't know, I have a spinal cord injury at T10 and I acquired that disability in August of 2015. So I know both perspectives of being a non-disabled person and being a disabled person like Wes, and so when I acquired my disability, there was a lot of things that I didn't know and I know I was naive to believe that, like the disability community was just affected with their physical limitations. So my advocacy really sparked when I recognized all the barriers and far beyond the physical barriers that we see in society and in the community so the attitudinal barriers, the societal barriers, just everything that relates to that and I realized that there is not a lot of people who feel like or confident to speak up for this huge minority group, and so I wanted to be able to be the representation that we don't really have in this community, and I thought the best way to do so is to tap into keynote public speaking and also doing social media blogging.

Speaker 1: 5:09

Oh, I love that and, of course, I've seen the journey, I've seen the work and I've seen the passion behind the work and I like the fact that you mentioned how some people just don't have the voice and confidence to be able to speak up and advocate for themselves. And a lot of that is projected off of society's perceptions of the feeding value that society views people with disabilities. That sometimes can take away your voice and for anyone that's watching to understand, when it does come to individuals like Anna that have the courage to go out and be an advocate, there are still barriers that she faces when she goes out there. She's just willing to be the voice for those that haven't been heard and so, again, just understanding the power of disability advocacy, because those that are doing the work are literally doing the work despite the societal barriers that are still there every day that we're trying to remove and still haven't been able to remove, like that's what it is right.

Speaker 2: 6:20

No, I love what you said because it I mean like it's true that we disability or advocacy work can get exhausting and though I'm putting myself in uncomfortable positions, I recognize it's far beyond just me and it's more like the community and a lot of people around the world are affected by disability advocates and how, what, the change that they're trying to implement in society. So I know West also leads by that philosophy, but I think it's why we connect so well.

Speaker 1: 6:56

Absolutely so. So, even taking it from that right Like, of course, I want people to know like you, yes, you're a huge disability advocate, you're making great impact on your social media, and all of that, but how old were you when you acquired your disability?

Speaker 2: 7:13

So I was 14 years old, about to be 15. And that was my freshman year of high school, and so ever since that point on, my whole trajectory changed, like anyone else's that has acquired a spinal cord injury, and so it's led to the person I am today. Now I'm what? Seven and a half years post-injured? And so I've gained a lot of wisdom and insights from not only from my personal experience, but from the community and what they've shared and the mentors that are in this community, the huge mentors like Wes.

Speaker 1: 7:52

OK, so let's take it there You're 14, you're injured, you're just getting into high school, like, of course, one of the things that I'm very proud that you have accomplished is graduating from college, and I think that that's important to share because, as people do acquire their injuries at any time of their lives, I think your story has a significant impact on those that might not think that they should continue education, especially when it comes to the barriers and workforce, the barriers in schooling, even the accessibility in college and universities.

Speaker 1: 8:31

Yes, there is issues, but at the same time, I think that talking about that journey, talking about what was navigating through high school as well, as you were injured, practicing for a competition and trying to get and become this huge star, in a sense, when it came to that lane that you were in. So, I think, just sharing that, because I think we could talk about how much confidence we have now and how we're navigating and being a voice, but I think it's important to be a voice for those that are trying to explore education, even college. You push through, even though you had challenges, and I think, yeah, so let's just share that navigating high school and college.

Speaker 2: 9:28

Yeah, I mean. So. I just graduated with my bachelor's in psychology and a lot of disabled students don't pursue higher education and that's because of all the barriers that we face. You have to be a self-advocate and be able to reach out to the Disability Resource Center and say, hey, these are the accommodations that I need for me, as a disabled student, to be successful in your university. And that was hard to fully establish within me of being able to vocalize what I need and where I need it. And I think that's a huge part.

Speaker 2: 10:03

I actually almost made, or I'm about to upload, a post about what it's like to be a disabled student and attending a university. And there's just everywhere from physical barriers when it comes to Hills. So I'm based in Kansas and I went to University of Kansas, which is the main campuses in Lawrence, and Lawrence, like Kansas, is one of the most flatest states, but for some reason Lawrence is super hilly, not accessible whatsoever. So I actually attended another campus with the University of Kansas and that's based in Johnson County area and this county is fairly flat, but I could only imagine going to the main campus and pushing that hill from one building to the next, because they're not all connected and there's not always an accessible route. So you have to also count for the fact that we see all four seasons here in Kansas, so snow and rain and thunderstorms, and hail and winds all of that and they're all placed at role in your manual wheelchair user.

Speaker 1: 11:14

And I like emphasizing the manual wheelchair user at the end because I think we'll talk a little bit about the work behind ADA and accessibility. But a lot of access to me as being a manual wheelchair user is created for people that are in power chairs, because the hills aren't barriers for someone that has power behind their wheels but for an independent user that is trying to be more flexible as well as knowing the difference of wheelchairs. So a power wheelchair is much like we're going to be a lot more bulkier. A manual wheelchair is going to one be smaller, narrow, but it also can be pulled apart for the most part and broken down. So just so people can know the difference.

Speaker 1: 12:00

But after my injury I ended up going to Johnson County Community College and it was just that factor. It was hills. That was very challenging and I was still new in my injury and people always joke about how my arms got so big. I'm probably like them hills that I had to push up, but outside of that, elevators at times didn't work. You might have had to go to a whole other side of campus to be able to get an operating elevator, which required you to push longer, and I think that it's just important for people to understand that when you're looking at your college campus, is your college campus actually accessible to people that have disabilities, like, and then it can be created for someone that has limited mobility to a certain extent, but is there access for wheelchair users? Is there convenient access for wheelchair users? And even if it's not, are your accommodations actually something that someone can actually access? Because even having accommodations, but I call the line and nobody answers doesn't help me. Or if it's raining, right, like, and I have to do all this pushing in my manual chair, is somebody going to come and pull an umbrella up? Or am I going to have to go to class soaking wet Because there wasn't systems in place that actually served me as well? And I think that society avoids these barriers because there are certain things that are created to limit our ability to access. Like, why would I put a person with disability in an education system when majority of society thinks that you receive a check and that's the rest of your life, right, like, you get social security, disability, something like that.

Speaker 1: 13:50

But it's 2023, people and the pandemic, let everybody know that they can have opportunity, no matter their limitations. So, if you're sitting at home all day working a good job. A person with disability can do the same thing, and maybe they just need education to be able to advance, like you. But they can't get the education because of the barriers that are in place. That just came from the structure, right? The infrastructure itself was just created where it didn't include everybody, right? So again, kudos to you for being able to take those challenges and show I don't know.

Speaker 1: 14:31

To me it's knowing you and knowing your journey, it feels good to see you graduate from college and be able to set the tone differently, because, I mean, you have individuals that lose their jobs. They don't go back to work, right, like you still were ambitious enough to pursue something more, Right? So let's think about that. Right, like being able to pursue school, being able to graduate. A lot of that has to come from a support system. Some of the reason why people don't have confidence after their spinal cord injuries because of the lack of support. Sometimes the support comes from your community, and then it can come from outside your community as well, and so understanding that can really help you become more or find yourself in a deeper hole. So can you talk a little bit about the importance of not only a support system, but community as well. With the spinal cord injury.

Speaker 2: 15:34

Yeah, my family, I mean.

Speaker 2: 15:35

They shielded me from a lot of things, the second that I was injured, but also allowed me to fail, so that I can see that I have the resilience that I need to get through challenges that society is going to throw at me.

Speaker 2: 15:49

But they were the ones who were grounding me and reminding me that I can do far more than what society has limited me to do.

Speaker 2: 15:58

Getting connected with the spinal cord injury community was crucial in making this like a smooth transition from being non-disabled to now disabled.

Speaker 2: 16:08

Because, I mean, I'm sure you could relate to this West, but, like those early injured days where we didn't want to speak to another wheelchair user, and when you're in those early stages and you're isolated in your bedroom, now told that you're not going to be able to walk again and that you're going to be a part of the wheelchair user community, the last thing you want to do is associate with disability, because of the narrative that society has drafted about this community and it's oftentimes a negative connotation and so I think it took me a couple of months to realize that there's so much power in the disability community and with the spinal cord injury community, they were the ones who were giving me the resources and the tips and tricks and the lived experience that my therapist could never provide for me, though they went through all this education. I don't want to downplay their role too, because they're very profound in the way that I transitioned, but community is everything.

Speaker 1: 17:08

And it's not downplaying anybody, it's not. I think lived experiences do bring more knowledge and it can help someone grow or evolve from their current circumstances. It's that representation factor, like if the college institutions were more accessible, maybe we'll have more PTs and OTs that have disabilities. Right, I'm just saying or like you never know. You never know, right, that's a good point.

Speaker 2: 17:37

Yeah, I never thought of that.

Speaker 1: 17:41

We can definitely be in every field in life, right Like, we can definitely find a way to have an impact in every field if there's access to get there, if there's access for that education. Right Like, again, everything comes back to access. It's not the fact that I don't want to go, it's that am I going to have barriers that prevent me from being my full, complete self? Because it's creating anxiety. You know it creates instant depression sometimes when you face a barrier. Right Like, you go somewhere and someone's like hey, let me carry you. You're like, oh, my goodness, like just that word, like I can pick you up, like are you serious? And then you have to contemplate, like is this what I really want to do? Can I trust this person? And again, so you have these moments that if I can't just roll in somewhere and have access to be confident, then I have all these underlining issues that will come up real quick that can alter, like, my learning experience or my growth experience.

Speaker 1: 18:49

Right Like, it goes into not just schooling, it goes into the gym. Right Like, I'm sure, as you've been in physical fitness and doing these things, like I'm sure you've went into a gym where some of the things are hard to access so it limits your workout for that day. Sometimes you know you can ask for help, but most people know how to gym is. A lot of people stick to themselves and if you are a person with disability you're probably more inspiring and somebody want to help you, right, like they. Just it's a different tone. But again, if I go in there to try to push myself to get to a certain level, the only barrier I have is the access there, right.

Speaker 2: 19:32

Like that's it.

Speaker 1: 19:35

I can go and be pushing, but when I go somewhere, what am I facing? So let's so. Have you ever had experience outside of, like you know, the gym and the college where you know you've you faced a barrier and it just kind of made you feel some type of way Like literally, like this straight transparency? Yes.

Speaker 2: 19:54

Oh, yes, I mean like this has affected my social life and as someone who's very extroverted, I find myself having to ask the person, whoever I'm hanging out with, what is the location that you want to meet at? And then having to do my own research about is it truly accessible? Because it's one thing for a website to say yes, it's accessible, but does that really meet all the requirements of every disabled person to be able to access that building? And I feel like it relates to this illustration that this one advocate drew out and I can't recall what their name was, but she said society will say she can't get in the building because of her being in a wheelchair and reframing that to be. She can't get into the building not because she's in a wheelchair, but because the building's lack of access. It's not her fault that she's in a wheelchair, it's the fault that disability is often the afterthought and we are not accounted for.

Speaker 2: 20:58

And we see that every day where there's steps in a building and there's no access and indirectly it will communicate to us you're not welcome here, you're not thought of here, and we don't want to enter those buildings and we don't want to support those businesses that won't support us on being able to be independent, because the last thing that we want is to go out of our way and go down the back alley to access the store, like we all know, those businesses where, or restaurants where they're like yes, we're accessible, but what you have to do is you have to go across the street and pass the garbage cans and through the kitchen, and then you'll be able to find your seat, and we just want to be able to enter the space that every other non-disabled person can enter. That's all you want.

Speaker 1: 21:49

I really love where you took this. I do, because what you did was you added that social aspect and, of course, we started off with education, the gym. These are things to make you feel good, build yourself, to have a better quality of life, right, right? What about social right? And most people don't understand that the barriers when it comes to going out, like yeah, I'm not as extroverted as you, but I do like to get out and I do like to have fun.

Speaker 1: 22:22

But I also find myself Google mapping a location, reading through the final lines to see about the accessibility, looking at the picture, going in a circle, like I mean, it's so much extra work just to go to a location, compared to a lot of my peers that can just go in and walk in and I'm not a fan of going in a back of anything.

Speaker 1: 22:44

So if you ask me or tell me that your access is the back and going through a kitchen, I'm not going Right, like I'm just it puts a bad taste in my mouth. Like it is just do better, right. Like, do better, hire somebody that can help you. You know, create something different. You know, sometimes you overthink access and I think having that's where that lived experience and reaching out to someone that has that knowledge or have that lived experience that help you become more accessible, make sense, then you avoiding it and then you know having someone like me or Anna come with a group of friends and it's like you know no way to get in and then even add into that because I'm out here in LA, and LA has a does a great job with checking the box off, right, if you have stairs.

Speaker 1: 23:40

They got lifts, they got elevators, all these different things all around here, but do they work? I can't tell you how many times I've been stuck on a lift out here, you know, or the elevators don't work, and I think that's that's also another layer to barriers. Right, like you, let me come in and then don't include me, right, like, just because I'm inside doesn't mean I can mingle like everybody else.

Speaker 2: 24:11

Right.

Speaker 1: 24:11

And it makes it awkward. I appreciate you sharing that, Anna, because that's so important.

Speaker 2: 24:17

Oh, it's crucial, and I mean, like we were just talking about me and Wes are talking about this one space in downtown and being able to access the rooftop, which the rooftop doesn't have an elevator, and that's very unfortunate because a lot of people want to be able to see rooftops and go to the skylines and that's where social life thrives off of. So, like not being able to access this one part of a building that everyone wants to attend is is a struggle, and we it's. I mean, I can only speak on behalf of me, but if I'm in those situations, I don't want my friends to feel limited on where they can go just because I can't access it. So it's hard, because it's, it's a struggle sometimes.

Speaker 1: 25:01

But seriously I think and that's the other like, who are you surrogate if you're not creating access to for all right and and a lot, of, a lot of times? I think that question isn't really pushed out or people do think of it as an afterthought. You know we can go back and forth on accessing or grading companies and businesses in Kansas City might come one day. So you better start looking out. But seriously, because I think most people don't understand and I remember going into a building trying to book their space. They had a phenomenal rooftop and you know they didn't have access to it.

Speaker 1: 25:41

But this organization does a lot of community work. There's a lot of work when it comes to you host many events. And my first question was I don't even see in your business model that you serve kids with disabilities and I don't see it. And the structure and infrastructure of your building highlights that right like and because and it kind of came from a being invited to an event going and they had all the festivities on the roof and I'm like can I get up there?

Speaker 1: 26:12

and they like we can carry you up to the.

Speaker 2: 26:17

Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:19

And like this is like and it's one of those things, right. But before this is this experience that I want to highlight. I was doing a keynote speech at the Nelson Atkins Museum and it was nothing on you, so I want to share the location because museums are very, you know, modern. Got up there, got up to the location speaking, did my thing, but somebody just messaged me and made me think about it and probably like, closer to the end of my keynote, yeah, the fire line goes off, right. And I'm like, okay, please tell me this is a drill, because if you don't know, if you're in a wheelchair and the fire line goes off, you cannot access the elevator. Well, I'm sure you guys know, because you walk down the stairs, right, but for us we have to sit by the elevator and wait on someone to come and carry us down, right, and so in this situation I couldn't use the elevator.

Speaker 1: 27:23

The stairs that was going upward very narrow and after maybe about five minutes of the alarm, like one of the staff members come up like it's not a drill, and I was like, oh my God.

Speaker 1: 27:35

So I had to have like two guys that carried me down the stairs. Long story short, the guy reached out to me recently and was like, yeah, man, I tore my peck or something carrying you down the stairs and and it to me. I'm like see, we're in the world's not prepared people do things that maybe they're not comfortable doing to help us be served and it creates an injury or something on your end, like I didn't. I felt bad because I mean, he was just someone that wanted to watch it. Of course, this was years ago, so I'm like why you know you're sharing with me now, right, but at the same time, it made me think about it. It's like sometimes we're putting people in positions that they're not even comfortable for the barriers of access and the things around us, and so it's like, yeah, like, and that was just a normal sit like, and then I then, as soon as we got down to downstairs, it was a drill.

Speaker 2: 28:29

Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1: 28:31

I caught the elevator back upstairs to finish my keynote. It was the most awkward situation and but it was about access. The whole event was around access, so it is just literally shed light to the barriers that we face, and then the afterthought of certain things that you know when it comes to events and it comes to put us in a position to speak, right.

Speaker 2: 28:56

So no, emergency preparedness is like huge in my eyes. I remember when I was in high school and we went on lockdown because there was an active shooter in the building and all these people were talking. I was on the second floor so I'm like gosh, how am I going to get from my classroom to the elevator, downstairs, through the entire building to exit? And everyone was talking about like it wasn't as serious because we were able to maintain it, but everyone was talking about like I'm going to break this window, I'm just going to jump and I'm like what am I supposed to do? Everyone can run and when you're in that position, it it terrifies you as a user and as a disabled person.

Speaker 1: 29:36

So, just speaking on behalf of that, I was just another story that came with my you know you give me like a you know a generator generated elevator that's always to the, you know, in the back of the building, that's like for emergency only Because it is. It's one of those scary things and I think when people have those conversations about you know situations where there's emergency, so you know whether wise, or you say I have an active shooter, these are. These are concerns that people with disabilities, especially wheelchair users, that also have those levels of barriers, regardless of where you are right like I think I seen someone make a post and on Twitter and they were in a wheelchair, they were in like a hotel and maybe they were in.

Speaker 1: 30:25

New York and they probably was on like the 50th floor or something and like the fire alarm went off and so it's like even that of like having access to the hotel. Of course we all want the top floor, we want to look at things, but we also have to be in case of an emergency. We got to wait on emergency people to come in and walk up 50 flights of stairs just to carry me down, because that's where I am right. Like it makes you think of all the things that have been overseen right. Like it makes you go into, unfortunately, like a lot of people don't talk about it, but you know there was a lot of people with disabilities that you know lost their lives in the 911 thing because there was measures that prevented them from coming down all those flights of stairs.

Speaker 1: 31:13

And so, again, like you know, being mindful of what access really looks like. Because, yeah, you give me up to the top, but what's your and your methods of emergency? And do you actually have generous staff and vulnerable staff and empathetic staff that will sit there with me? Because when I've seen situations happen, I feel like I'm the only one on the floor, like I don't even have people come up to be like hey, man, you good, no, they outside right like. So I mean even that of making you feel alone in a situation that's out of your control.

Speaker 2: 31:47

Right, right, and that has led to us just always being very aware of where the exits are and what is happening.

Speaker 1: 31:59

It's not. Signage is very important. If you have an institution, an organization, always show signage. I look for signage all the time that explains exactly what I need to do. I was in like New Orleans and one of the hotels basically just said in case of emergency, this is where you're supposed to be.

Speaker 2: 32:18

And I'm like.

Speaker 1: 32:19

I didn't even know they could make a sign like that and I'm like you know what, they know where I am if I come right here, but if I go right, it was a good feeling Alright.

Speaker 1: 32:29

So no thanks, like we definitely. I feel like these are great, important conversations when it comes to people, you know, that do have spinal cord injuries or in a wheelchair, because a lot of people talk the conversation or they talk about accessibility, but most people project or assume that all wheelchair users are the same. You know what I mean and so you know when we're talking about spinal cord injury and some of these barriers this is barriers for individuals that don't have no mobility, can't get out of their chairs you know that really use their chairs as a source of their legs and what those barriers look like you know. So some of your work is around the airport and the airlines and, of course, I've done my own Post around it, but you took it to a whole another level, right, like. So come explain to me, even when it comes to accessibility in an airport as well as the plane, like what were the steps that you did and what was some of the things that you learned about airline and access?

Speaker 2: 33:36

mm-hmm. I took a recent poll in my Instagram about what are the things that you don't talk about with your disability. That is Overlooked, and one of the main common trends that I saw was about airlines and about air access and how Tricky it is to navigate that space because of the statistic of what? 2422 Mobility devices being damaged or lost by airlines every day. That's a significant amount. I mean there should. That's 24 too many.

Speaker 2: 34:08

So when I took it upon myself to really highlight all the challenges that we navigate in the airline airport and on the airplane, I really wanted to highlight what it's like to be a passenger who is stripped away from their legs and fully having to trust a stranger to Bring their legs down and to the bottom of the plane, secure it to make sure that luggage is and everything won't bump into it if turbulence does come across, and Making sure that that even gets down to the plane, because there are horror stories that exist about mobility devices being left at the gate and then, once the passenger arrives at destination, they are stuck at the airport because they don't have their legs anymore. So when I One of my most recent videos that went, that went viral, as it should, because it highlighted a lot of this advocacy work. I talked about seat-strapping my Manual chair onto the airlines on board, and that isn't seen very often and I do believe that sometimes it is important to highlight that power chair users most of the time have it worse because of people laying it down on the side when they're not supposed to and and mishandling it and not having all these proper measures to ensure that it'll be kept in one piece and brought back to the user the exact way that it was brought to them. So that was a whole thing and I'm sure that I can talk forever about this, but it's very important to talk about when it comes to when we're thinking about law and politics of Just air travel for disabled passengers.

Speaker 1: 35:50

So one thing that I recently seen on an article. It stated that within ADA, airline wasn't included. Yes and so Once I saw that, it made me understand why the fight is so hard. Right, like at first, you're like oh this supposed to be a part of? Ada right like in, and so even learning and educating yourself on that Can make you advocate differently right?

Speaker 2: 36:23

Yes, I think I learned. I might be wrong, but I believe that the airport is supported by the ADA, and then the gateway to the air or to the the plane. Plus, the plane is covered by the air carriers Act, which I'm still trying to familiarize myself with. But, like all that, transportation is Is um, very complex, so I'm trying to like do my research about what exactly that entails. So it's, it's crazy, though, because it's, I mean, like ADA is probably one of the most were Most familiar with, and the fact that that's not also accounted for with airports is huge.

Speaker 1: 37:01

Yeah, and you know. So what are some of your methods when traveling that you do to ensure you know that you do make your wheelchair does get to you and that is in the same condition that it that it left you?

Speaker 2: 37:17

so addressing the loss of making sure that my mobility device isn't lost, I add an apple tracker onto my wheelchair and then I can look at my phone to make sure that when the plane is moving, my chair is also moving, because that means that's under in cargo and that measure, I mean it's it's funny that we have to do such thing, because there are these instances where they have been left behind, and then to ensure that it is in one piece and that it is exactly how I left it, I take a video documentation of a 360, my entire chair, and people have done photos before.

Speaker 2: 37:56

I think I found video to be the most helpful because I'm able to get all the little aspects and then I can take screenshots for whenever if I do have to report it. And I need that documentation. But to show how the wheel is moving because sometimes, most of the times, when it comes to Manual wheelchair users, it's the front casters that get damaged the most or the brakes that get damaged the most, because those are the ones that are protruding and that are sticking out but to show how the wheel is moving, that it isn't causing any issue for the wheelchair user. I mean just the whole, the whole 360 of the chair and even flipping it upside down to show Every aspect of the chair Is crucial. It's crazy that we have to do that, like right before the airline or right before that we get on board so people now think about this.

Speaker 1: 38:44

You have the largest minority group that's in the world, you know, people with disabilities. Right now we're talking about spinal cord injuries, so individuals that use the wheelchair for the most part, and other other factor in this is that majority of these people are on fixed incomes. Um, majority of these individuals don't have the best, you know support system All all the way around. Right, my point is we still have to go and purchase an air tag To make sure that your wheelchair comes back and comes to you properly and safely, because of the lack of understanding and the lack of education that goes into training and the individuals that are working with our, our mobility devices.

Speaker 1: 39:33

But then you have to take time to record right like and take pictures of your device just to make sure it comes back in the same piece. Now, I'm not saying that, you know it's a bad thing to document, but what I'm saying is that everyone doesn't have the mobility that myself or Anna has. Right, spinal cord injury starts at the Top of your spine all the way to the bottom of your spine and so, depending on where your injured Speaks, on your level of mobility.

Speaker 1: 40:06

And again, everyone doesn't have that ability. So it's important to share these factors because I think in a lot of things we end up spending more money to be accommodated. I even Took note recently of booking for a hotel and realized that all the ADA rooms cause more and again. I'm good with that if society doesn't have to perceive that we aren't supposed to be self-sufficient. Right, because, again, like, if you know people with disabilities and are getting certain funding, access and ability to to have and do all the things everyone else can do, and the cool Prices is prices, but when it comes to accommodation and access, you're paying more. You're paying more for the convenience, right, like, instead of having someone that creates it in their model, that just creates a level of access or, you know, safety or Safety or comfortability, right? So yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:10

I think that is important. I just want people to know, like you know, living as well, life Comes with a lot of, lot of costs and a lot of heartaches sometimes when, when you just want to be independent and live freely right.

Speaker 2: 41:25

One of the most frequently asked questions that I get is do I wish to walk again? And it's not the fact that I'm unable to use my legs, it's not the fact that I can't run or jump or climb anymore. It's the fact that there's these Society barriers that are preventing me from living a full life.

Speaker 1: 41:43

Yes, I mean society barriers, and when you think about societal barriers, you have to think it's not just the that starts right, right, but then I always say, like you can be inclusive, but are you right? So your whole facility can be like the airport? The airport to extend is accessible. I still have my views about it, but A lot of the staff aren't knowledgeable when it comes to access or disability, so you're missing a layer.

Speaker 1: 42:15

Right, you know like you're missing something that can actually serve more, because me coming into the airport and knowing that you have a, a tiny seat that can get me on the airplane, but then you have two staff members that don't even know how to lift me up, doesn't really work for me. Right, and again, like, for me, I have the strength. For Anna, she has the strength, but for someone that can have a higher injury or even new in their injury, that one experience, it can be their last experience, and you hear many horror stories of people with disabilities that are mishandled and a lot of different professions. Right, and I'm not the person to hear my bad or I'm sorry, because the the everlasting pain and and and effects of dropping someone in a wheelchair Goes beyond your apology.

Speaker 2: 43:11

Hmm, mm-hmm, it's scary, sometimes it's terrifying and we are mentally scarred.

Speaker 1: 43:19

It creates all these levels of anxiety, like you don't want to do this again. You go like, uh, like it's, it's a lot, it's a lot and I want people to understand it. And we haven't even talked on pain, right, like we have any talk barriers on, like natural pain that you get from nerves and things like that all we've been literally having the conversation about right now and its access and being included in societal barriers, and I think people need to understand how compact and like this this conversation is, because All of these underlining things to be living life and free and independent, and you haven't even got to your injury yet, like you haven't even been able to explain, okay, well, this is what I deal with as having a final court injury, right, it's like we're talking about just getting out outdoors, right? So one thing that I do want to acknowledge, anna, is you being a substitute teacher.

Speaker 1: 44:22

Um, because, again, your, your life, oh, your life is amazing because you, you're shifting what people think, right, like, of course, we're in sports and Anna's a A bad ass when it comes to fitness and stuff. Trust me, I tried to, really did, but I mean from Navigating high school to graduating college, to being an advocate and a keynote speaker and all these other things, but having a passion to be a substitute teacher right, talk about that. Talk about what is your normal range of ages that you use substitute and what is your experiences and what are you trying to teach the youth through your just organic work of being a teacher.

Speaker 2: 45:13

Yeah, so I wear a lot of hats, like Wes said keynote speaker, social media blogger, model substitute teacher and with every role I find that I'm still advocating and one of the biggest things in my eyes is to be able to educate the youth about how to truly build an inclusive and diverse and accessible future. So when I stepped into this role, I've been a substitute teacher for about four years now and I primarily see early education, so K through five, and with each classroom that I'm stepping into, I'm devoting five minutes to do disability 101 with these kids, the people or these children, to provide them information that I wish society taught, such as disability etiquette, teaching them that the word disability isn't a bad word. And then, far beyond that, about accessible parking spots and how crucial they are because their parents will often pick them up from them, and that's a whole other topic of itself. And then also just accessible bathroom stalls and making sure that we leave that bathroom style available for people who need it, because the last thing that we wanna do is go into a bathroom when we really need to go to the bathroom and then see that all the stalls are open except for the accessible one, but I'll wait 10 minutes for someone to do whatever they're doing in the bathroom stalls We'll often see teenagers just filming TikToks in the bathroom and the big bathroom stalls altogether, or we've seen which. This isn't mother's faults but the changing station being in the accessible stall and having them having to change their baby, and that's not their fault. But when we think about accessibility and design, that's not a part of what this inclusive design looks like, because now we're waiting for a mother to change their baby and them having to wait for us so that they could change their babies. So vice versa.

Speaker 2: 47:24

But also in the classrooms I talk about the importance of hey, you can talk to disabled people and we are very friendly just like anyone else.

Speaker 2: 47:35

So, opening that conversation because I know that oftentimes their parents, more often than not, will say no, don't stare, I mean don't ask these questions like shy them away from disability and the conversation of disability, which is part of the reasons why we see adults who very visibly show discomfort about when sharing, like close proximity with a disabled person and we can point out every nonverbal behavior that shows that they weren't open to the conversation of what it means to be disabled and share space with disabled individuals. So I do a lot with them and they always have the most curious things to say and I love it because, again, I think that it's really important to reiterate that it's okay that we have curious minds and I want to really point out that when you have those curious moments in children, to not shy them away from that, to invite them to maybe start that conversation with a disabled person and if that disabled person doesn't wanna share, then to respect that and then say address the child hey, like they didn't wanna talk about it. Sometimes you don't wanna talk about things and that's okay. Why don't we go home and do our own research online so that we know what it's like to serve these people?

Speaker 2: 48:53

So Mm.

Speaker 1: 48:55

Such good gems right there, anna, so good. I love being around kids too. They're very unapologetic and they have all the questions that once you become an adult or even an adolescent, you don't ask anymore. And I've learned that it changes their perception instantly when you can literally just have a conversation or answer questions that make them see us right, like outside of the way that their parents do. Cause a lot of people's experience are based off of someone else's opinions or perception about the disabled community and so being able to yeah, so being able to sit in front of children and organically just teach them Like so I guess that leads me into the next question, cause I think that's a great, great point that you make about teaching kids. What steps would you like to see society take to become more accessible and inclusive?

Speaker 2: 49:56

I would love for them to get educated and look at their inner circle and include disabled voices in that, so that we can build a world that's empathetic and that knows all of these different lens and angles of life, so that we're starting to look for it in the real world and we're joining allyship to the disabled community and being advocates. On calling out business, I shouldn't say calling out, I don't like calling out, I like calling in better Cause. Calling in stands a lot more of what I'm trying to do Calling in businesses about the barriers that they may have overlooked. So I think it's important, with every keynote that I end with, I stress the importance of non-disabled becoming allies to the disability community or even advocates or activists. I mean, like those have different degrees and levels, but to somehow look at their inner circle, look at you know their feed on Instagram and social medias and making sure that they're intentionally adding diverse voices in it so that they can know how to serve other people in the world.

Speaker 1: 51:09

I love that. I love that. So, if you don't have diverse voices on your feed on social media, we look in. Yes, and it's important to have that visual representation, but it's also important to make sure that you are having conversations with people that have disabilities so that you can truly see your business, your institution, your organization, serve all. And if you can't serve all, having an understanding on the language to utilize when it comes to maybe your accountability of lack of access or barriers can help other people feel still included because you're holding transparency. Because, of course, some buildings are grandfathered in as a term right, like, of course, I'm not a fan of it, but sometimes that can be. That's an excuse. It's an excuse, but being open with someone can let them know. But then also, let's find a solution together. Let's don't even based on just this one term or something that we know. Let's figure out how we can work together to create a more inclusive future Right.

Speaker 2: 52:19

Right, right, and having a solution. I actually learned. So I attended the ADA symposium, which is the most comprehensive conference about disability laws and it's a four day event and I just got back from it and I learned and took away so much from that. But one of the things that I really learned was that there's no such thing as your grandfather clause. So you're actually under the ADA, even though your foundation and structure may be built along before the ADA, you're supposed to have some kind of solution to be able to serve disabled people, to access your business or facility. And that was like I mean, like there's so many times where I tolerated that, like I'm someone, a business will say, well, we're grandfathered in and I'm like okay. And so I'm like, okay, guess we have to go somewhere else. But no, that's actually a myth that exists and we're tolerating it because we don't know. And it's huge to have that knowledge, because now I'm looking at businesses and say like where's the ramp that you guys are supposed to provide, or anything like that.

Speaker 1: 53:27

That was so good. That was so good. And like thank you for educating me at this moment, because I'm getting too nice with that term.

Speaker 2: 53:36

Yeah, no, I mean I'm gonna do more research it and I'm still digesting all the information I got from this weekend, but, oh my gosh, that just changed my entire perspective of that term and how people use it. So I just wanted to include that because I think it's important for people to also know.

Speaker 1: 53:54

No, absolutely, and I you know, at least from my understanding, when I visited London for the first time, they had buildings that they would have mentioned being some type of grandfathered in, but they made accommodations to create access.

Speaker 2: 54:09

Right.

Speaker 1: 54:10

And so, yes, the structure could have been, but you still create access. I have a good friend that makes a point that she says you're creating a world that you wouldn't wanna live in. And if everybody's going to experience disability at some point of their life. If you're not creating access for me, you're hindering access for you, your family members or someone that you know now or in the future.

Speaker 2: 54:39

Yes.

Speaker 1: 54:40

Right.

Speaker 2: 54:41

Disability does not discriminate. It does not discriminate Right. Listen. If you live long enough, you too will be affected by this.

Speaker 1: 54:51

You too. So, as we end, share some points that you will want the community to know about spinal cord injury, and then you know, for those that could have a spinal cord injury, what would be your last words for them as well.

Speaker 2: 55:07

Yes, oh, the advice piece.

Speaker 2: 55:09

I always get this question and I think it always reflects where I am at life at the moment, and so my biggest advice would be, if you're comfortable, to really tap in to becoming an advocate and educating yourself on disability laws, because I didn't realize how many laws there were that just support us, and it goes far beyond the ADA.

Speaker 2: 55:32

I mean you have, like, the ABA and all these other ones that can support and help us navigate this world. But also just to like, if you're in those early injured days, to really just be able to grieve and sit with yourself and sit with these emotions, cause I think it's so crucial that we do so. I remember so many times I was fed like toxic positivity and I never really processed my emotions, and as someone who's a mental health advocate, I think it's crucial that we do so, because it'll show up in the future if we don't. So that and like also get connected with this amazing community. I mean there's a lot of us and there's a lot of us that are doing amazing and incredible things. So once you open your lens to realizing that, your life changes.

Speaker 1: 56:27

Oh, I love that. Yeah, community, finding your tribe right, finding your tribe and being the change you wish to see. So advocacy, you know, if you don't see change, you can be that change, you can be the voice. And one thing I would leave with for everybody is just that you know we are not the circumstances that we're currently in. We are what we set to be and become, and so, no matter what position or place you are in life at the moment, you can become so much more. Life is about growth, so imagine how much you can evolve daily if you push yourself, take the baby steps to understanding and acknowledging all of you, so that you can pour you out into the world organically and authentically and become a change just by doing that.

Speaker 2: 57:19

Right. I don't know why I love that.

Speaker 1: 57:22

All right, anna, but thank you so much for tapping in and chatting Again. Thanks everybody for tapping in. Until the next time, I'm out of the shadows, doses.

Speaker 2: 57:34

Thank you guys, thank you.

Speaker 1: 57:38

And as we conclude, another inspiring episode, I want to remind you that success isn't just about the spotlight. It's also about the shadows. It's about the struggles we conquer, the unseen battles we fight and the silent victories we claim. I'm Wesley Hamilton and you've been listening to Out of the Shadows, where we illuminate the stories often left untold. Join me next week as I venture back into the shadows and bring another amazing individual into the light. Until then, remember, no story is too small to inspire. Keep fighting, keep winning and stay out of the shadows. L introduction.