Building Equity-Based Summers (BEBS) Podcast
Episode #5: We Need to Give This Work Time to Take Hold
In this podcast episode we talk with Altadena (CA) Library District staff Ashley Watts and Fin Lee about the ways in which they are integrating equity ideas and practices into summer services and beyond. Ashley and Fin are bringing in community and staff voices into the design, planning, and implementation of equitable summer services.
Resources mentioned in the podcast:
Building Equity-Based Summers is funded in part through the Institute of Museum and Library Services..
In this podcast episode we talk with Altadena (CA) Library District staff Ashley Watts and Fin Lee about the ways in which they are integrating equity ideas and practices into summer services and beyond. Ashley and Fin are bringing in community and staff voices into the design, planning, and implementation of equitable summer services.
Resources mentioned in the podcast:
Building Equity-Based Summers is funded in part through the Institute of Museum and Library Services..
Hi everyone, welcome to our latest Building Equity based summers Bebs podcast episode. I'm Linda Braun, one of the team working on the Bebs project, and I'm here with my colleague and co-host, lakeisha Kimbrough. Say hello, lakeisha.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone. Lakeisha, so awesome to be here with you and thank you for listening. I have the pleasure of working alongside Linda and an amazing team as an equity consultant on the work with Building Equity based summers, and we are joined by amazing staff from Altadena Library District. And who do we have?
Speaker 3:Hi, my name is Ashley Watts. I am the assistant library director for the Altadena Library.
Speaker 4:District and my name is Fin Lee. I am the team librarian of Altadena Library District.
Speaker 1:Can you tell us about Altadena a little bit?
Speaker 3:I would say we have a diverse staff. I feel like we have a pretty good group, especially when it comes to mindset you don't have to necessarily be a certain race to think about other races and their struggles and other cultures and I think this staff is really good about being thoughtful about the content and the programs and the things that we do. We also have a very active community that is boisterous and they want to see certain things from us. Sometimes they don't want us to do certain things but again, I think our staff group is really good about knowing when to move forward, when to press the button on something and also when to ask questions of administration, which I'm thankful to be a part of because I can kind of lend my voice in some of those decisions, making portions of the work that we do.
Speaker 3:As far as African Americans in Altadena goals, I feel like I just had a conversation with a community member yesterday that kind of represents the black community in Altadena and she was disheartened because the African American community is decreasing. They were closer to 30% of the community. Now they're closer to 20% of the community. I was just kind of collaborating with her on future programs. We could do like how can we connect with who is still here? What do they want, ben?
Speaker 2:I saw you nodding your head a lot. Are there things that you would add or from? Your lived experience in Altadena.
Speaker 4:Because I've come back to a new position and, having worked in Altadena before, I do see the changes even just now. Coming back a year later and seeing the demographics and you youth and teens and even adult users. I definitely echo what Ashley is saying and we're also trying to bridge those gaps. We pushed out the vending machine. That's more towards right now it's a prime pizza. That location is about like 5, 10 minutes, but a 10 minute drive is a huge barrier for a lot of people who don't have access to cars and transportation. I do see the disparity of the folks using the library.
Speaker 1:How do you make decisions about where the vending machines go? It's super interesting to me.
Speaker 3:We look at where our locations or our physical locations already exist and then we try to put those somewhere else like not in close proximity to the physical locations An area that we feel like is underserved. That's how that prime pizza area was describing. It is 5 to 10 minutes away from both of our locations the second one, because we do have a second one and we're hoping to put that on the west side of Altadena. That is where the African American community that's not coming in Live, so we really want to put the vending machine there.
Speaker 2:One of the things I'm really excited about is you two as a team, and you went through the BEBS eight sessions together and I know, finn, you are working with teams primarily right, it's your work and Ashley, you're in a leadership role, an administrative role, and what was the BEBS experience like for you as individuals and then as a team?
Speaker 3:I definitely enjoyed the experience. I think that even in my leadership role, I'm not so far removed from frontline staff that I've forgotten what it's like to be on the frontline, what it's like to be a user of the library and not just a decision maker. So Finn and I were on the same page very early on, which was great, because we had a lot of the same ideas and even new ideas we both brought to the table. We were like, yes, yes, yes, like it's almost been so good that it's been. One of the most exciting things about my work right now is getting to work through this framework with Finn. So it's been a very enjoyable experience and I think it's definitely been enhancing our summer reading meetings.
Speaker 3:So prior to BEBS, we had started meeting once a month the public services staff to plan summer, because sometimes summer is one of those things that you don't think about it until it's like right about here, and then that's how you fall into doing the same old, because it's quick to book that same magician and the same this and that, because you're used to doing that, and we really wanted to be more thoughtful. So we started these monthly meetings already. So then we just started sharing after our sessions, fin and I would share things we were getting from the cohort Because, even though Fin and I attend the sessions and represent Altadena Library, it really needs to be a district-wide initiative. It needs to be something that everyone knows and understands, not just Fin and I, because it's all of our work to be doing. Again, just going back to the mindset of the staff here, they've been very receptive and on board and we even have a mini committee that's just focused on BEBS and what we're in, the changes we're going to make for summer. So it's been great.
Speaker 4:I would echo everything and my own perspective of doing this type of work. I'm not a stranger to it I've done cohorts before, I've done CLA initiatives but it's always been an individual experience, and this is the first time that I felt that none of it was individualized. It felt like a collaboration the whole time between me and Ashley, and that was something that I was curious about. What would this look like, ashley being my boss's boss? What type of power dynamics might come up? How receptive is Ashley or the district going to be about these smaller changes?
Speaker 4:And I've been really surprised and I feel very lucky to be in a district that is really open to trying new things, even if it's like one small thing that we can change. I think that's like a huge step for our commitment to continuing BEBS work. We went through those weeks of meeting with other libraries, but now it's just us and we want to continue that, and so I do see this being the time for a new, almost a new way of seeing programming in summer and then hopefully beyond summer. So it's been a really, really great experience.
Speaker 1:And can you tell us a little bit about what changes you are starting to?
Speaker 3:make the biggest change, I think, is planning summer with the community. So, starting this month, the first one is next week. On the 10th we are hosting community conversations where we're going to explain to selected community members what BEBS is. We're going to talk about our why of summer. We're also going to get feedback from them, getting what they want to see and capturing that, asking those simple questions that we talked about in our sessions, but taking the info we get from those and turning those into programs or experiences and then, once we put together our summer reading marketing, we want to brand those programs that came out of those conversations as, like, bebs programs, so that the community knows this came from you. Like, if you see that BEBS logo, this came out of a community conversation or a member of your community that wanted to see this happen here and we made it happen.
Speaker 1:And how are you things changing for you in terms of how you're working through summer?
Speaker 4:I mean, being part of the BEBS committee is changing a lot of, like my framework of how we plan for summer. So another idea that I had that we have in place is bringing out community boards that are more for passive engagement Outreaches. We've been doing that, I believe, for over a month, and now that we have a little bit of time of no outreaches this month we actually have a board out in our courtyard right now. So every week there's a question for the community and we just get consistent passive feedback. So what's exciting for me, because of the selected folks and patrons that we identified who are going to be part of the community conversations for this time around, we're still getting feedback from the rest of the community. So really trying to push those types of passive initiatives right now is the work that I think I want to contribute more into the BEPS committee committee. How do we continue to get feedback? How do we continue to engage? How do we continue to have that conversation with patrons about why we're doing this and why we want summer to be the experience that they get and that we're that we want to give them? So it really has changed a lot and in terms of, like the planning aspect, we're we're still doing kind of our own, you know, programming ideas. However, nothing's set in stone until we have these community conversations, which I appreciate. You know any library could say we're going to have these conversations, but you guys, you guys plan the summer, go ahead. We are actively saying no, let's take a pause, let's have these conversations, let's see what comes out of it. Let's go through the committee it's a subcommittee of summer reading and how do we implement those ideas? And then we start.
Speaker 4:So it's nice we're not having this urgency feel when I think summer reading planning is always this like oh, let's start in August the year before and we got everything booked by January. I really appreciate the slowness, the intentionality of this district being able to implement the feedback we get before we start planning. So For me, I'm just like I'm going with the flow, it's really. But at the same time I'm like, oh my God, should we be urgent? You know I'm fighting those feelings of, you know gaslighting myself, but it's, it's good because it comes from the district. You're going to take your time to get this feedback and we have some like cool ways that we're going to have those conversations. So you know, I'm very excited.
Speaker 2:Linda and I and others have been hoping and wanting to walk alongside folks In is Bebs does not have to replace any equity work that you're already doing. Right, like it can Come alongside the equity work that's already happening, the equity journey that your library, your district, you know it's already on. In essence, like this is not an add on. This shouldn't be. Oh, here we go, now I have to do this thing on top of this thing. Right, but how do we really Integrated and bring it in and it sounds like that's something you all have been thinking about is how do we have started? Add on, how is this really Compliment, what we've already been thinking, what we already been doing Curious to know if I'm hearing that correctly and and then also how and I hear the mindset of the staff is part of what's been helping this. I'm curious if there are other things that you have seen or that you have noticed that Help this. The best thoughts, ideas, framework Come alongside the equity work that you've already been doing on your journey.
Speaker 3:Yes, I'll Share that. The district as a whole, so all of the staff Um once a month, participate in a cohort where we work through project ready modules and everyone has to participate in it. And if you haven't heard a project ready to any of our listeners like, please look into it. As a African American woman, you know, in libraries I would seek out Trainings and part of my role in my previous organization was to help with finding trainings and I remember going to 1. I won't say what it was, but I like cried after and my husband happened to walk by when he heard me listening to it and was like get off of that, Like what is that? And it was just a very insensitive approach to equity work. But I found that project ready really Focused on race and More particularly African American struggles in a way that I hadn't seen done, and so, as I was saying, we kind of work through those modules every month and there's about 26 of them and it's been really good.
Speaker 1:One of the things, ashley, you're making me think, that I've been thinking the whole time, is that this is systemic for the district, right? We do not see that Very often, if at all, that really it is a systemic approach. And then I'm wondering If it's fair to ask you, or okay to ask you like how is it different than what you've experienced in other places in terms of the systemic approach?
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. I have been a part of Two other library Districts and so the other two that I have been a part of. There has never been any focus or initiative or intention around EDI concepts, never got a training. I believe the the last district I was a part of I honestly can't remember a time that it was even brought up in an email. It is that far removed and, of course, we're in a special district.
Speaker 4:So I feel like that is something to be said, because the other types of library systems I've been in have been in city and county. So you know there are other types of restrictions and barriers and bridges across when you are in those systems. So that's like a huge difference. I can't say that there's ever been, and I am within library community and I don't hear enough from other folks that are in other library districts that are talking about how much of an effort that their system is really doing and putting forth effort into.
Speaker 4:So I feel very lucky and this is one of the reasons I returned to this library, knowing that you know, before I was working as an assistant and then I got my masters and then I, you know, found a library in position, but once another library position opened up. I knew I wanted to come back. I knew that it was a place where there was like a commitment and also as like as being trans and gender queer and in Asian, you know, I am like I feel a lot of diversity boxes and you really can see how people treat you in management roles that are disheartening in other systems, you know in any workplace we're ever in.
Speaker 4:You know we have challenges if you are diverse or a marginalized community. So I do feel like I've been, I feel, the most supported and comfortable in this system compared to other ones that I've been a part of. So, yeah, I have nothing but like good, you know, things are progressing things. Nothing's perfect, obviously, but I think that when there's a system that's trying to move through those and have a commitment of making some changes, it's really positive to be a part of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was curious because you mentioned earlier can't remember, was actually your Finn, I think Finn the idea that this bebs is summer. However, the work really needs to be all the time, and actually you just said that basically too. So have you thought about, or are you in your head or out loud, ways in which you can start to see, or we'll see, the bebs ideas, the principles moving forward outside?
Speaker 3:of summer. I definitely see it going past summer, I think, once the staff goes through the process we're working through right now and they see how exciting it is to work with the community. I just see it happening more like. I already do think we try to get that information, but I definitely feel like this is a more intentional and a slightly more aggressive approach in that we're bringing it to outreach. We have it inside the library. So whether you see us in the library or out of the library, we are pushing this work forward, and so I could definitely see us continuing to ask a lot of the questions that you all helped guide us through asking the community those things, and some of them are very simple questions you know they're not heavy where you couldn't pop up a board at an event and let people add posted notes to it. So I definitely can see us incorporating that solicitation of feedback from the community more often than we had been.
Speaker 2:I'm curious how staff have received, and how community receives, some of that exploration around. Is this tradition still serving us well? And if so, great, does it need to be reimagined so that it can grow? Or maybe it's no longer serving us? And how do we? How do we release it? Or what components of it do we keep and re imagine? Some curious Then, and, ashley, like what that exploration or those conversations are like with your staff, with your community, if they've been had, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3:The community not a whole lot yet, but with the staff, I think Ben and I were really good about Putting parameters or boundaries on the changes we wanted to make. So, for example, we want 50% of the performers To be changed to more experiences and, you know, more diverse things. So we're not wiping it out or totally changing the game. We're just saying, ok, let's do half of the same stuff, but this other half is where we're going to play with these ideas and see how the community responds. And then we also put some parameters on like how many programs or events we want to get from the community feedback and we're hoping, like if five to six of the many, many, many programs we offer were from these community conversations, again a more softer, more easily attainable approach to it. So the staff are like, ok, yeah, I could totally see us making those changes because they don't feel like so drastic that we're going to have to explain to the community who is expecting certain things. You know what happened.
Speaker 1:So just starting small and then taking more and more baby steps yes, I love that, and one of the things that makes me think of is something Lekisha and I talk about all the time and I wonder if this has come up for you is time. Are people like how are you all talking about how to integrate the equity practices, bebs, ideas? Are there ways that time is or isn't, or are likely like nope, we got it. Everybody's really excited. Time is not an issue.
Speaker 3:I would say time is not really an issue and I think it's because the changes we're making are part of the planning we're already doing as part of these monthly meetings. I think if we didn't have those monthly meetings, that would feel like a lot. And then there's also the subcommittees now that meet. So, like I mentioned, there's a BEBS subcommittee that is just going to focus on running these conversations we have planned and sifting through the data that we get from it. So it feels like, okay, this team gets to focus on it, you guys are focusing on something else, but we report to the larger group at our monthly meetings.
Speaker 3:So I think, because that feels so easy and pretty normal to what we did last year, I think that's why it's working out so nicely. And it also helps that Finn and I continue to meet one-on-one where we kind of talk about next steps together, and when we present to the larger group or even to our smaller group, they and I are already really on the same page about what's coming next. So it's a lot that's happening behind the scenes to get us where we are, because I don't mean to imply or even make it sound like it's just all organically falling into place. It's not that I just think, because Finn and I are so excited about this work, we're like intentionally working on it. Whether it's one-on-one, smaller group, bigger group, there's always something being done.
Speaker 4:So I would say I mean, I think every library right now is just like how do we manage everything? So, right when Ashley was saying that this is something that's already been implemented and it really is it does feel like a passion project at this point. So if I have an extra 30 minutes out of my day to think about it, to write an email, to write a document, that doesn't feel like this huge shift of change in the time that I spend already. So definitely want to echo Ashley on that.
Speaker 1:And I love, ashley, that you also said that this is not like oh, it's just easy, we're just making this work, like that's. You know, lakeisha and I are always talking about people put out those equity statements, right, or whatever. It's like, yeah, we're done, we've said it. You are acknowledging, recognizing that a lot has to go into this that no one necessarily sees, except you both, perhaps, right, or you each, and I think that is so. That's the system part. Again, right Is like it's embedded in the system. It's that behind the scenes work. It's not just like let's put on a program and I don't have a question here, I'm just sort of fascinated by like thinking about all the different pieces that have to be in place in order for that to happen. So, no question, but thoughts gratefully accepted.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I just want to say like what came to my mind is really that I feel like I owe the community this, so like I'm passionate about it, because I feel like the community deserves equity in the library, like they deserve to see themselves, they deserve to see the things they want to see or the things they enjoy. And I feel like we as public servants, as just community members you know whether you live, work, play in the community, you know a part of you lives with that community, you know. So I just I feel like it's a personal responsibility to some extent to do this and like it's a win-win. You know you should know the community that you serve and I think the BEBS work is pushing us to do that, when sometimes that can kind of be like you know, I'll get to that when I can and I'll oh, we're so short staff, we don't have time to get out or, and those are those things are all true and happening across the board and libraries, but I feel like me thinking of it as a personal responsibility and like a big part of the work I should be doing, and it makes it like I got to make this a priority, like you know where.
Speaker 3:There are a lot of things that we have going on and that we have to do, but I think who we serve should be at the top of the list, and how we serve them. You know, I just appreciate doing this work and, like Finn was saying, like it's a passion project. So I don't I don't know if that's the the impetus to getting all of it done, but I'm just really excited about what I know will be a great and impactful experience and I really think it's going to mean something to the community in the long run that we didn't just serve them summer reading on a platter once again the same little way and expect them to enjoy it. Because when everybody makes the statements like, well, this is what the community wants, how do you know that, like the community changes, I see so many new families moving into all to Dina that I'm like okay, how do we still know that this is what they want from 10 years ago? And this is a new family?
Speaker 2:you know a bunch of new families, so that I think also, as you were talking, I was like, oh my gosh, yes, we have to continuously stay engaged. You know, with community staff changes, community changes, leadership and community changes, right, all of these different things begin to happen. And then the other thing that I heard was over time, right. And so I think, on equity journeys, the journey for towards equity and liberation we often want, well, we did that program, we did that thing, we didn't see any result from it, right, where that could have really been the seed planter, and now we need to give it time to take root and to sprout and to see what comes from it. It gets really okay to allow things to take root, to allow things to grow and then begin to see, oh, where might we need to prune, what needs to be transplanted, like what you know, all those different things, using gardening as as a metaphor here, Ending on the idea of gardening and growth seems like a great way to finish up this podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you, finn and Ashley, for joining us today and we hope you listen to our next podcast coming up in another month. Thanks everyone, bye.