Do you finish every book you start?

Do you finish every book you start? Why or why not? Some people feel a strong moral imperative to finish a book once they've started reading it. Other people will mark a book DNF (Did Not Finish) after a few pages if they're not able to get into it and move on to the next book. What pulls some people to keep reading a book if they're not enjoying it? And are people who give up missing out on a book they would love if they stuck with it? Do we owe it to the author to keep reading? And does the format you're reading in make a difference?

Whether you're firmly on one side of this spectrum or fall somewhere in the middle, join us as we weigh the pros and cons of finishing (books, that is). Who knows, you might end up with a different philosophy by the end of the episode!
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Books we're reading in this episode: 
Romantic Comedy by Curtis Sittenfeld
Marlow Murder Club by Robert Thorogood
Tower of Dawn (Throne of Glass series) by Sarah J Maas
Beach Read by Emily Henry

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Intro and outro music: "The Chase," by Aves.

Do you have thoughts, questions, or ideas for future episodes? Email us at allbooksaloudpod@gmail.com. And if you want to learn more about the podcast, visit our website at allbooksaloudpod.com.

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Read on!

Transcript

[All Books Aloud intro and theme music]

Martha: Hey Liz. 

Elizabeth: Hi Martha. How are you? 

Martha: I'm good. How are you doing? 

Elizabeth: I'm good. I'm excited to get into our topic that we're gonna talk about today. It's a juicy one. 

Martha: Yeah, I know. Me too. 

But first, what are you reading right now? 

Elizabeth: I finished [00:01:00] Romantic Comedy by Curtis Sittenfeld and I loved it.

Love, love, love, loved it so much that I actually kind of have a book hangover, which I think we've. Reference that every time. So it's definitely something we're gonna have to talk about, but it was just such a good book, and it's exactly the kind of book that I hope to be able to write. It was funny, it was smart, , it had serious themes, but it wasn't too serious.

She's just like my writing idol, Curtis Sittenfeld. 

Martha: Mm-hmm. 

Elizabeth: So, I haven't really been able to get into anything else. I am also though, still listening to my audiobook, the Marlow Murder Club by Robert  Thorogood. The more walks I go on the closer, I'll get to finishing that. 

Martha: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: What about you?

What are you reading? 

Martha: I finished book five on my audiobooks of the Throne of Glass series by Sarah J Maas, which I have to say, I messed up on her name on our first [00:02:00] podcast. I said Sarah J Maas, because I looked up a Google pronunciation and I should have trusted the Book Tok girlies because they were right.

Of course. Sarah J Maas, not Maas. So I'm on book six of the Throne of Glass series. It's called Tower of Dawn. I just started it. I just finished the last book yesterday and I'm really hooked on this series, so I'm glad that I have Crescent City after it. It's her, third series she has going. And then on paper, I'm reading Beach Read by Emily Henry.

 Both you and I recently read Book Lovers by Emily Henry, and we both absolutely loved it. So I'm excited to delve into one of her other books.

Elizabeth: Oh, that is exciting. You have to tell me how it is. Maybe that'll be my book 

hangover cure I really loved Book Lovers as you know. I couldn't talk about it enough. With the Sarah J Maas books.[00:03:00] 

She has so many books. Is this the last in the series you're reading now and then you said you're gonna start a new one or No?

How many books are there? 

Martha: There's one more after this one. So there's eight books in Throne of Glass, and then there's a novella that, goes along with it. And then Crescent City, that series, I think there's only two or three books out and she's in the process of writing one more. And then in the A Court of Thorn and Rose's series, she's finishing another one too.

So she's got a lot going on. I think that's part of why people love them so much is because there's just like a whole Sarah J Maas universe and you can get in there and stay a while and I think that's really fun. 

Elizabeth: That's cool. 

Martha: Mm-hmm. So let's get into our topic. 

Elizabeth: Today we are talking about. Finishing, do you? Finishing books. [00:04:00] Do you finish every book you read and why or why not you go first?

Martha: I would say for the most part, yes, there are exceptions, but for the most part, if I start a book, I really want to finish it. I don't think it's a hard and fast rule for me, but I definitely have opinions.

What about you? 

Elizabeth: Oh, I have opinions. , mine is pretty much completely the opposite of that. I mean, my hard and fast rule is I definitely do not finish every book that I start and in fact, Have a pretty firm 25 page rule. If I'm feeling particularly like it's not for me, sometimes I'll give a book 50 pages.

Martha: Mm-hmm. 

Elizabeth: If I'm kind of unsure if it's for me or not. But the books that I really loved, I am in, after page [00:05:00] five and, we'll get into it more, but that is a little harsh, but, As a librarian, I'm just like, there are too many books. There's so many books in the world. You'll never be able to read 'em all.

So why would you waste your time reading a book that you're not enjoying? It's not about the quality of the book, you know, it's just like, if it's not for you, for whatever reason. So yeah, this is definitely one of those, one of those hot takes. That's my librarian hot take. It's informed by my professional opinions, Librarian Hot take TM registered, all rights reserved. I pretty firmly am in the, if it's not working for me, I don't finish it. 

Martha: Hmm. Interesting. 

Elizabeth: Tell me more about why you do finish books usually. 

Martha: I don't really know. I think there's probably some moral, if you start something, you have to finish [00:06:00] it. I'm sure that's part of it., I'm like, a, notoriously strict rule follower, , always followed the rules, got good grades in school, that kind of thing. So I think that probably plays a part of it.

 If I start it, I wanna commit to it and finish it, but I also think that now a days the way I read. It's like when you. Watch something on Netflix and they say, you might also like this. I feel like that happens quite often. The way I read now, I'll read a book and talk to you or a friend and they'll say, oh, if you like that, then you'll like this.

Or, you'll log on Good Reads and search for books that are similar to the one you just read, or one in another genre that you know you like. So often that's the way that I'm finding the next book and I kind of just stay on books that I feel like I will like. So that's worked for me. In a lot of [00:07:00] instances, but not every instance.

There have been some that I've struggled through. I think a book that you and I picked out together, on one of my trips to Oregon, we thought it looked really good and I was reading it and I was like, I don't know, I like the storyline, but the writing's just not doing it for me. And you were like, why are you finishing it?

Elizabeth: Yeah. 

Martha: And I don't know. I don't know why I did, but I will say, In the end, I did like it. It wasn't one of my favorites.

Elizabeth: Mm-hmm.

Martha: But I did like the way it ended. So I don't know. 

Elizabeth: Yeah. I am, I'm brutal. And I know that we've had this conversation more than once where you'll say to me that you're not, really enjoying a book.

And I'll just be like, just stop. Just stop., that is interesting to hear you say though about. The way that you happen upon new books. And I wonder a little bit if, part of the reason that I am so brutal with this is because, in my work I am constantly being, inundated basically with new books.

I hear [00:08:00] about new books. I see new books. I manage the leisure reading, recreational reading collection at the library. And so even though I work in an academic library, I'm ordering fiction books and you know, self-help books and books that people would wanna read for fun. And so I'm just constantly seeing all these new books that are being published.

And so maybe it's because I just have so many more books coming at me as possibilities to read that, I tend to start books pretty often and then just, If they're not working for me, I just stop and go on to the next one. And so maybe that is partly because I'm not only starting books that come to me in that organic way.

 I wanna go back to something that you said though at the very beginning of your answer, which is something that we talked a lot in the first episode about, which is the idea that there's sort of a moral element to your reading, that if you start a book that you somehow have.

A responsibility to finish it, because I think that's really related to a lot that we talked about in the first episode where we imbue reading with a lot of moral overtones [00:09:00] and that sometimes that, causes people to read less or causes them to enjoy reading less. 

Martha: Mm-hmm. , 

Elizabeth: so I find that part really interesting.

 Where do you think that, that guilt over not finishing or the idea that you have a responsibility to finish if you start. Comes from. Do you have any sense? 

Martha: I really don't outside of just like, this is the assignment I gave myself so I have to finish it, that's really the only thing I can think.

And another instance where I feel this strongly is because I'm a people pleaser by nature, which I am always working on, fighting against, and so, I've had this happen before where a friend will recommend a book like, oh my gosh, I love this book. You have to read it. Tell me what you think, and I'll start it and be like, oh.

Ugh. Like, I'm not loving this book, but I feel obligated to finish it because, I guess I don't wanna hurt their [00:10:00] feelings or something and be like, oh no, that book sucks and I don't know why you love it so much. You kind of at least have to give it a fair shot and, so I find myself finishing 'em anyway and then saying like, oh yeah, no, it was okay.

Or, you know, whatever. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, 

Martha: try and let 'em down Easy. 

Elizabeth: That's a really good point. I do think there's a social element to that, especially when a person recommends a book to you. I know that I referenced her before, and I probably will talk about her in every single episode, but Nancy Pearl, my grad school professor, who's my librarian hero, gave us the advice in one of her classes, especially as a librarian, when you are telling someone that you didn't like a book as much as they liked it, she gave us the advice to say, something along the lines of, oh, I think I'm the only person in the world that didn't like that book, or something like that to sort of. Acknowledge that it is a book that a lot of people enjoyed and that you're not saying that it sucked.

Right. It sort of goes back [00:11:00] to her philosophy that no two people read the same book. It's just a matter of it not having been for you. 

Martha: Mm-hmm. 

And be a little self-deprecating. To soften the blow of it. 

Elizabeth: Exactly. Exactly. And she would talk about how it's so important for librarians especially to strike that type of tone, even if you say it, not in those exact words when you're talking to people about books because.

Again, along this same theme of reading and books, having this sort of moral overtone, librarians also have a little bit of a, not, I mean, yeah, a little bit of a moral overtone to their role and put in a position of authority in a certain way. And there's a whole history of that.

 Partially that is how librarians presented themselves and partially it's a social history to the way that the role evolved that maybe we could talk about some other time. 

Martha: Well, and even moralizing books, I would say. 

Elizabeth: Yeah. 

Martha: That plays a part in that. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, and there was a lot of moralizing on the part of librarians about what people should be reading.[00:12:00] 

 Sort of helping people to better themselves, quote unquote. So this is not all something that has been like put upon librarians. There's a history of librarians being sort of judgmental in that way. But there are a lot of people who still think of librarians as a n authority figure, like that school teacher figure who, if you go to them and say that you didn't enjoy a classic, or that you haven't read a book in a long time, that somehow they're gonna judge you or shame you or something like that.

I cannot tell you how many times I've had conversations with students in my library where, it almost feels like they're confessing to me in some way. And I don't feel like I present myself in this way, but it's just the role of a librarian that, they sort of feel as if, they want a book that they think is not academic enough, they'll sort of whisper it to me.

 One time I played this whole guessing game with a student who was saying that she wanted a book that was. Sort of self-help, but you know, she sort of was dancing around it and I was like, oh, well, you know, we just got a book by, I can't remember which one, but it [00:13:00] was one of the Kardashian sisters had just written a book about. , wellness and self-care or something.

Martha: Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth: I was like, Hey, we just got this book in the recreation collection, would you wanna give that a try? And she was like, that's exactly the book that I wanted. I just was too embarrassed to tell you that that's what I was looking for. And I, 

Martha: she must, must not have realized that that's part of your whole job.

Elizabeth: Yeah, possibly. But yeah, so I, that was a little bit of a tangent, but I just think that it is really interesting to unpack that, We do load this topic and, everything around it with such heavy implications. And so, yeah. When you were telling someone that you didn't like a book that they recommended to you, it can be a little bit sticky of a situation.

But I think, leading with, It just wasn't for me or you know, I liked parts of it, but I think I just wasn't in the right head space to read it. Or, something that, like you were saying, brings it back to you, 

Martha: something honest, but 

you know,

Elizabeth: yeah, 

Martha: you wanna be honest, but letting them down easy.

Elizabeth: I'm not advocating lying, and [00:14:00] neither was Nancy. She wasn't advocating lying because, I mean, the the perfect example I can give for this is that I started reading the Outlander book by Diana Gabaldon, and I hated it.

And I know that you really like, I actually think that you recommended it to me because you know that I like to read romance and I, like historical fiction, both of which are true. I do like both of those genres and it just was not for me. I just didn't like it. I think that I tried to force myself to keep reading it because you had recommended it so strongly and at one point I like threw it across the room.

I just hated it. I hated it. 

Martha: Oh, that's so funny. 

Elizabeth: But I think that initially when we ta, and this was years and years ago, I think initially when we talked about it, I did, I think I tried out a similar line on you, a Nancy Pearl line that was sort of like, I know that everyone loves that book. I think it just wasn't for me.

Or something like, 

Martha: that's funny 

Elizabeth: Until you pressed me for more reasons why I didn't like it. 

Martha: The funny thing about Outlander, I have to remind you, I don't know if you remember, that's [00:15:00] actually the series that got me hooked on reading again because that's the one that my friend Kristy said, you have to listen to these books on Audible. They're so good cuz she's super into , romance and the smuttier the better.

And so she was actually the one, she is, she's like, log onto my audible and listen to these books. And so that's really what got me back into reading. And, I didn't finish the whole series. There's so many Outlander books and I didn't get through them because. Kind of like you were explaining earlier, having the abundance of books at your fingertips.

That's kind of what audiobooks opened up that whole world to me. And I was like, oh, what else can I listen to? You know? So I, I accept that you didn't like Outlander. It's okay. , but yeah, that's what brought me back to reading and now and audio books. And so here we are. 

Elizabeth: Well, that is really interesting because.

One of the other things I think that is [00:16:00] related to this topic is that format actually does make a difference. 

Martha: Mm-hmm. 

Elizabeth: So, I don't think with Outlander, I feel like my issues with Outlander were more specific to the story than 

Martha: mm-hmm. 

Elizabeth: Just , that I couldn't get into the writing. But I do wonder sometimes if books that I didn't finish in print that I would be able to get into as an audiobook or vice versa.

You know, sometimes I start an audiobook and I don't like the narrator, or there's something about it that's off and I don't finish it. And so I wonder if I, I mean, I'm sure that probably different formats might produce a different experience. 

Martha: Oh, a hundred percent. And I can speak to that anecdotally.

 One of the books that I am so glad that I kept trying and actually finished is the Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller. I think our brother Michael, or Mike. People call him Mike.

We call him Michael. 

Elizabeth: Yeah. 

Martha: He was the one who told me about the song of Achilles and how much he loved it. And I had to read it and I started listening to it first as [00:17:00] an audiobook and for whatever reason I could not.

Get into it. I think it was the narrator. I just wasn't connecting with it that way. And I was like, ah, I don't know this book, eh. But then I read Circe by Madeline Miller on paper and absolutely loved that book. That's like one of my favorite books of all time. I love Circe so much. So I was like, I cannot possibly love this book so much, and not like the song of Achilles.

So I went and bought a paper copy and for whatever reason, I found it a lot easier than the audio version. And I finished that book and was sobbing like a baby at the end. 

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Martha: Like I'm sure a lot of people, Who read that, and I was just so glad that I was able to finish it.

So I think that's a good example 

of that. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, that is a great example. , our brother recommended that book to me too, and I also absolutely loved it and loved Circe even more. 

Martha: Mm-hmm. 

Elizabeth: But [00:18:00] also sobbed at the end of Song of Achilles. And I think that we both talked about those books at the time, but yeah, I did read them both in paper.

So maybe for whatever reason that's just, is a better, a better format for those. , I'm trying to think of an example where I just don't give, I don't tend to give books a second chance. Maybe that is something that I should be a little bit more generous about. , because the other thing with the, you know, no two readers read the same book theory is that it also goes for an individual person because, , Nancy would say that.

If you come to a book at a different phase of your life or a different season of your life, you're in a different mood, you're in a different place. You're on vacation versus working or whatever, you might react to a book completely differently than you did the first time because, we are always changing as people, and so I'm not the same person that I was 10 years ago.

Martha: Mm-hmm. 

That's also an argument about rereading books, which I think we'll save for another [00:19:00] topic. , but there's a lot to unpack there in different phases of your life and how rereading a book can be different. 

Elizabeth: Do you think that it is more or less common for you to give up on a book in print versus. Audio. I mean, I guess maybe you don't give up on books as much as I do, so maybe I should answer this question for myself, but that just occurred to me. 

Martha: Yeah, there have been a couple books on audio that I haven't finished.

The one that comes to mind right off the top of my head is The Professor by Charlotte Bronte. I think I could read that on paper more easily than listen to it. But mostly I think it's paper books that I just find to be dull. And that might be because of the time of day that I'm reading them. , I think I mentioned this in the first episode, often I'm reading my paper books at night before I go to bed.

And so, you know, if you're tired and [00:20:00] you're reading something that's not. Catching your attention, of course, you just start to fall asleep and it's really hard to get through. And those are usually self-help type books. One I can think of off the top of my head is Breath by James Nester.

And that's a book I really want to finish but haven't been able to yet. And so I might try it as an audiobook. , Another one that I can think of is the One Thing by Gary Keller, which a lot of people loved. And that was one where a few friends have recommended it, and I will confess, oh, I've started that, but I haven't finished it, and they just can't believe it.

 So maybe I should try that as an audiobook too. 

Elizabeth: Interesting. 

Martha: What about you? 

Well, I guess you. 

Elizabeth: , I ditch 'em left and right, ditch 'em all. 

Martha: But do you think, do you think you ditch 'em on as audiobooks more, or paper books, or both 

Elizabeth: As you were talking, I was trying to think of ones that I've given up on recently and what format I was in [00:21:00] and you know, I think that I have given up on audiobooks much more quickly and often recently than I have on paper books. I'm trying to think of what the reason for that is. A lot of it has to do with the narrator.

Martha: Mm-hmm. 

Elizabeth: And I know that that's on our list of topics that we wanna devote an entire episode to. But yeah, for me, the narrator needs to be, I mean, you're just listening to the person for so long. 

Martha: Yeah

Elizabeth: , they need to be to, , not just tolerable. It needs to be someone that I want to listen to for, , 10, 20, 30, 40 hours.

 In the case of the audio book that I finished right before, the one I'm reading now, was The Hearts Invisible Furies by John Boyne, which I absolutely loved, and which you recommended that I read , and pushed me to read. And I'm so glad you did because 

Martha: specifically, 

Listen to because listen to that audiobook was so good.

That performance, 

Elizabeth: the narrator was, 

Martha: was so good.[00:22:00] 

Elizabeth: Yeah, it was so good as an audiobook. The narrator was amazing. He did, character voices really well, but not over, he didn't overdo them. Anyway, I'm getting more into the weeds of what makes a good narrator, but for some reason that is I think, a little bit more of a, of a balancing act for me than.

What it takes for me to get into the first 25 pages of a book, although I am also really picky about print books and the what they have in the first 25 pages, and sometimes people are surprised by how picky I am with that because they know I'm a writer, and so their reaction is, , wouldn't you want people to give your book a try beyond that?

Wouldn't you want them to continue reading it? And honestly, no. If I haven't captured your attention in the first 25 pages, then I haven't done my job as a writer. 

Martha: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: And I know that 

Martha: You're probably hyper aware, maybe even more so than the average writer of hooking that reader right in the beginning, because that's your [00:23:00] philosophy, which is probably very helpful.

Elizabeth: I don't know. It's sort of a which came first, the chicken or the egg. I wonder a little bit if, because I had that philosophy as a reader, that that has made me more, intent on doing that as a writer or if it made me more, analytical as a reader because I knew, , all the advice that they give to writers is that they even say within the first five pages is that you need to hook the reader.

Immediately into your story and that you don't have any time to waste. So yeah, I feel like that sort of justifies me in some way. I don't know who I'm justifying my opinion to, but it makes me feel a little bit more justified actually. The fact that I'm a writer with being able to say, I get it.

I write books. 

Martha: Yeah.

Elizabeth: It's hard. I haven't been published. It's hard. 

Martha: Yeah.

Elizabeth: But if you're doing it right, the person is into the story by page 25.

Martha: Well, and I can say, because I read your first five pages of your latest book and I was like, Liz, I wanna finish this. , send me the rest. You better [00:24:00] finish it cuz I wanna read it.

So it definitely hooked me right away 

so I can attest to that. 

Elizabeth: Hopefully you think that about the rest of it. , 

Martha: I'm sure. 

Elizabeth: Well, okay, so that being said, now that I've staked such a claim about how ruthless I am with. With not finishing books, there was something else that you said just then about the formats that brought to mind.

Books that I have actually forced myself to finish and why and how and what that experience was. So you mentioned that you couldn't read the Professor by Charlotte Bronte as an audio book and that you might be able to read it on paper. So that reminded me of a few of the books that I have not allowed myself to. To cast aside after 25 pages are specifically classics.

Martha: Mm-hmm. 

Elizabeth: And I think this is related to a lot of what we have already talked about. I think that part of the reason for that might be [00:25:00] because I feel somehow obligated to 

Martha: mm-hmm. 

Elizabeth: Finish and appreciate them because the whole world tells me that they're classics and so therefore I must conform.

Martha: Mm-hmm. 

How could you be a librarian who hasn't read the classics?

Elizabeth: Right.

Martha: Something like that. 

Elizabeth: I did that to myself a lot more before I became a librarian, as a sort of snooty English major who also wanted to write fiction.

I was very , serious about reading and , mostly read the classics and I still really love the classics. As you know, Jane Austen is my favorite writer. A love that we share, but 

Martha: mm-hmm. 

Elizabeth: But I've been reading them less as a librarian because I feel like it's incumbent upon me to be a little bit more conversant with contemporary literature.

If I'm gonna be buying these books, and that's something that I'm happy that I do and is another thing I have, Nancy Pearl to thank for is because she forced us to read in all of the different genres when we took her classes, so that you could talk about them, whether you liked it or not, you have to be able to talk about them.

But I have before forced myself to finish classics. The most, [00:26:00] recent example is Middlemarch by George Eliot. 

Martha: Mm-hmm. 

Elizabeth: So I, I have always said that I read that in college, except the truth is 

Martha: we're getting a live confession.

Elizabeth: Yeah, I think I did this in the first episode too, where I like confessed to you that I used to be a snotty, a snotty English major reader.

 The truth is that I didn't finish it, in my college English class. I read as far as I could and I can't remember how far I got. And then I sort of skimmed, the chapters that we would have class discussions about, I would read them, but I didn't really know what was going on. And I obviously felt ashamed about it, which is why I always claimed to have read it. But then I read an article recently, or maybe it was in a podcast, where someone was saying that George Elliot is like Jane Austen for grownups. 

Martha: Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth: Just in the sense that Jane Austen's stories, which I still of course love, and that I don't think it was meant to be [00:27:00] denigrating to Jane Austen, but her stories end at the proposal or at the wedding. Right. Whereas Middlemarch you get the whole plot of a Jane Austen novel in the first chapter.

You get the young woman she meets, the older man who she's gonna marry and they get married. I'm not spoiling anything that. Literally all happens immediately. 

Martha: Mm-hmm. 

Elizabeth: And then the rest of the book, which is notoriously long, like 900 pages, is. About their life after they get married and all the things that happened to Dorothea and all the things that happened to all these other people in the town of Middlemarch.

It has lots of interlocking and interweaving narratives. Dorothea, that is not the only main character and it's very complicated, but I read it last year and I started it and got to the place where I finished, where like I didn't read beyond it in college, cuz I still have the same copy that I had from when I was in college.

Cause I don't. I throw books away a lot as a librarian in the library, but I don't tend to throw my own books away, that I feel sentimental about. So I got to [00:28:00] the place where I stopped and I was like, okay, Elizabeth, you have to read this book. This is it. You're gonna give it more of a try and you're gonna finish it and , you can do this.

So I kept going beyond it and, I'm not gonna say that I was completely enthralled the entire time. It is a long ass book. 

Martha: Yeah,

Elizabeth: it was written in Victorian times. The writing style is just different from the one that we're used to. It's dry. There's a lot of interiority that we don't tend to like as much in our contemporary books. , there's a lot of political, and philosophical opining, you know there are parts where I was in danger of quitting again. 

Martha: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: But I persevered and I finished it, and not only did I feel a huge amount of accomplishment in finishing it, but I also loved it. I would say, it's not just that, it's not one of my favorite books, but I'm glad I finished it.

 I really, really loved it and got so much. It's so rich in terms of the story of the relationships and I, I really loved it. I hesitate to [00:29:00] recommend it to anyone who's not already gung ho about reading it because it is quite a chore. And I just say that even knowing everything that we talked about in the first episode about not calling reading a chore 

Martha: they can always try an audiobook.

Elizabeth: Yeah. So I wonder, I wonder if audiobook would be easier to read it, but I am glad that I forced myself to finish Middlemarch and I have done that with other books in the past. But it is really definitely the exception, not the rule for me. 

Martha: Okay. So that's what I was gonna say. It didn't change your mind though, about your policy of not finishing it.

Elizabeth: No. No it didn't. 

Martha: Why that book? Just because you had a score to settle. It was like your Moby Dick. 

Elizabeth: Moby Dick, which I read in high school and loved even the parts about all the whale blubber and the oil making, all that, that everyone always says they skip, I also read Les Mis when I was in high school.

That is a huge book too, that's about as long as Middlemarch and absolutely loved it. I think that my attention span was a lot better when I was [00:30:00] in high school than it is now.

Martha: How is that possible?

Elizabeth: Well, we didn't have social media back in my day. 

Martha: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: We didn't have cell phones, you know? 

Martha: Yeah, it's true.

Elizabeth: No, I don't think that I would say I had a score to settle with it.

 I had made peace with the fact that I hadn't read it a long time ago in the same way that I haven't read a lot of the classics. You know, we talked about Anna Karenina when you listened to that on audiobook and I told you that I had never read it.

There just are so many books. I mean, no one can read all the books, you know? 

Martha: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: Even someone who's an English major and a writer and a librarian , there are just too many books. I think the reason that I decided to give it another try and to really persevere with it is because of whatever that article or podcast that I listened to was that they just were talking about how meaningful it is, especially to read it in middle life.

Because it is just such a more complicated look at a romantic relationship, basically. 

Martha: Mm-hmm. 

Elizabeth: And I am 41 years old and I just got married for the first time in the last year and I read it during [00:31:00] that first year of my marriage. And it's been, I mean, this isn't a podcast about my personal life, but.

We were long distance for a long time and he's from England and there's all sorts of complications. It was a, a very sort of non-standard, situation. And I think that there was just something about the idea of reading about a very complicated, rich relationship that goes beyond the I do that just really spoke to me.

Martha: Yeah. In a way that it wouldn't have in college, which goes 

Elizabeth: Exactly. 

Martha: Which goes back to what we were saying about revisiting books at a later time in life. So we'll definitely have to do a whole episode about that. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

Martha: And circling back to Anna Karenina, I would have never read that book if it wasn't for the audio version.

I can safely say that,, I do enjoy reading the classics I haven't read as many as you, but I did listen to Anna  Karenina and it was 32 hours long and it took me a month to get through [00:32:00] even as an audiobook.

That's probably when I would've quit if I was reading on paper, just because it's dense. There's a lot of, Russian politics in that time period, not current day. So it's hard sometimes, to stick it out through those scenes. But there's so many other parts about it that are still really relatable.

Similar to Middlemarch about complicated relationships and marriage and when marriages don't work out the way you think they're going to 

Elizabeth: which is mostly all of them. Right? 

Martha: Right. 

Elizabeth: You find out when, 

Martha: right

Elizabeth: When you're older, mostly all relationships don't work out the way you expect, even if you stay together.

Martha: Right? Yeah. So there's definitely something to be said about, , after the Jane Austen book ends picking it up in a different 

Elizabeth: Yeah. 

Martha: Part of the relationship. But anyway, that's kind of like an aside, but I, probably wouldn't have finished Anna  Karenina if it wasn't for the audiobook version.

And so I do think that the format matters. So I would just say to any listeners, if there's a book you wanna try again, [00:33:00] you obviously don't have to, you could take up Liz's policy, but if you wanna give a book a second try, maybe try a different format. If you listen to it, try reading it on paper, if you started it on paper, switch to audio and just see.

Elizabeth: Yeah, I think that, giving it another try is a good idea and I, think I'm even gonna implement that myself. But I would just say that, , I'm obviously not as strict about this, , rule that I created about, not finishing after 25 pages as I professed in the beginning, but, I do think that there just shouldn't be any guilt associated with that.

If a book isn't for you and you're not getting into it, just move on to something else. You know? It's okay. No, no librarian is gonna judge you. No one is gonna give you an F. 

Martha: no. And if someone is judging you for that, that's more about them than you. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, that's a them problem. 

Martha: Yeah.

There's other books for you out there

So there's no shame [00:34:00] involved in reading at all. That's gonna be a common thread of our podcast. I foresee. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, I think that's our theme. No guilt. No shame. All reading is good. 

Martha: Well, on that note, I think we pretty much summed it up unless there's anything else, Liz, that you think on this topic you wanted to address.

Elizabeth: No, I think that's it. I think we covered it. Thanks for sharing your philosophy with me and listening to my confessions. 

Martha: Yeah, I do think that after this conversation, your philosophy will play a bit of a role.

When I'm deciding whether or not to finish a book, I'll remember why am I forcing myself to finish this? Do I really wanna see what happens? Or do I just feel guilty? So thank you for sharing your philosophy. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, I think I'm gonna give some books that I stopped a try on audio, see how it goes.

Martha: There you go. We'll have to do [00:35:00] a episode where we revisit this topic and see if it changed at all for either of us. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, that's a good idea. 

Martha: Well, thanks everyone for listening and we will be back with another reading related topic, so make sure you subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

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