All Books Aloud

How do you read so much?

• Elizabeth Brookbank & Martha Brookbank • Season 1 • Episode 6

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If you're a reader, you've probably had someone ask you this question. We unpack what this question sometimes really means (How do you have so much free time? Must be nice having no obligations! I'm so busy I could never find time to read. You must be some kind of a superhero!) and explore the roots of some of these false beliefs about reading. We then talk about tips and tricks for reading more if you or someone you know is asking this question in earnest. Part sass, part research, and part practical suggestions - this episode has it all!

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Books we're reading in this episode:  
And the Sea Will Tell by Vincent Bugliosi with Bruce Henderson
People We Meet on Vacation by Emily Henry
In Love with George Eliot by Kathy O'Shaughnessy
Portrait of a Scotsman (A League of Extraordinary Women series book #3) by Evie Dunmore

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Sources listed in the order they appear in the episode:   

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Intro and outro music: "The Chase," by Aves.

Do you have thoughts, questions, or ideas for future episodes? Email us at allbooksaloudpod@gmail.com. And if you want to learn more about the podcast, visit our website at allbooksaloudpod.com.

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And if you'd like to see more bookish content from Martha & Elizabeth, follow us on Instagram and TikTok @allbooksaloudpod.

Read on!

[All Books Aloud intro and theme music]

Martha: Hey Liz,

Elizabeth: Hi Martha. How are you?

Martha: I am doing well. I'm excited to talk about our topic today because it's something that definitely comes up a lot in my life.

Elizabeth: Yeah, this happens to me all the time. But before we start talking about it, what are you reading right now?

Martha: So, right now I'm reading just a couple books. [00:01:00] The first one is called, And the Sea Will Tell, by Vincent. Bugliosi? Bugliosi? I'm not quite sure how you say the name. In the audio book, the narrator says Bugliosi. And it's written with Bruce Henderson. And it's, a true crime story, and Vincent is the attorney in the case 

Elizabeth: Hmm. 

Martha: And it's really interesting. It's not my typical type of book but I'm reading it for a local book club, so that was my motivation. And I want to work on stepping outside of my normal comfort zone a little bit, so I'm glad that the book club brought me to this book.

They start out by setting the scene of what happened. It takes place on a remote Pacific island. And then they go from setting the scene to the trials. And I'm hoping at the [00:02:00] end, we know exactly what happens, but I'm not sure.

And of course, I could Google it because it's a true crime story, but I'm resisting the urge.

Elizabeth: Don't spoil it. Yeah, so it seems like it's one of those that works backward. That's interesting.

Martha: Yeah, It's kind of like a Dateline, honestly, that's really what it reminds me of, the vibes of a Dateline story. 

Elizabeth: That's cool. So you're trying out a different genre. Along the lines of our genre episode about not hemming yourself in.

Martha: hmm.

Elizabeth: I like it, good for you. 

Martha: And then going back to something more typical, the other book I'm reading is People We Meet on Vacation by Emily Henry. In my continuing effort to read all of Emily Henry's books.

Elizabeth: Yeah, I think we're both going to be Emily Henry completists in the next couple of months.

Martha: Yeah, yeah, I think 

What about you? What are you reading?

Elizabeth: I am reading kind of the same things that I was reading. [00:03:00] Last time we talked, I feel a little bit self conscious, but I just finished Portrait of a Scotsman by Evie Dunmore that I was listening to the audiobook of, and I'm in a little bit of a book hangover from it, because I just absolutely loved it.

I think that I told you early on that it wasn't my favorite of the series, but it grew on me and grew on me to the point where I would say that now it is my favorite one of the series.

There was just something about the pairing of this couple where the woman was a high class. Lady of the aristocracy and the man was a self made man that started out poor, but, was able to raise himself up and change his circumstances. There's this really interesting interplay between class politics and women's rights and feminist politics that Isn't overbearing in her stories.

That's why I really like them, it doesn't take away from the romance or the fun of the book. It's just a really [00:04:00] interesting way to think about those different politics and how they would have interacted with people at that time. And I just, oh god, I just loved it so much.

And the hero of the book is like, whoo, he's sexy. He's like my favorite hero, I think, also of the books. So anyway, I haven't been able to get into anything else. Book hangovers are so real. I shared on Instagram a funny meme about them and I was like, Does anyone have ideas for helping?

Please help me.

Martha: That's exactly why when I finished that book, I looked for the last one and was devastated that it wasn't done, and then I pre-ordered it on my Audible, because I was like, no, now what? Where do I go from here?

Elizabeth: I did the same thing. I looked it up because you told me there was going to be a fourth one, which I actually didn't realize. It's going to be called The Gentleman's Gambit. And as we were surmising, or as you told me last time. The fourth friend is the heroine of it, Catriona or Katrina. We're not sure how you [00:05:00] say her name because different versions of the audiobooks have said it different ways.

But it's supposed to come out in December, so I'm assuming that we're both going to be reading it ASAP.

Martha: Yes, yeah, definitely. Mm

Elizabeth: And then my print book, I'm still reading In Love with George Eliot by Kathy O'Shaughnessy. And I'm almost done with it, but it's definitely been a slower read because It is more of that, like literary fiction that just takes longer to get through and I don't just tear through it because part of the style of the writing is that it makes you think and,

Martha: Mm

Elizabeth: It really is presenting a very complicated and nuanced picture of George Eliot that is really helping me understand her more as a person. Along the lines of what we talked about a little bit in the separating the book from the author episode. I feel like I have even more of a complicated picture of her as just like a very messy, human as we all are.

You know, individuals are just [00:06:00] so, we contain multitudes. So yeah, I've really liked it, but it's definitely slowed down my, my book count for the year.

Martha: Yeah, and that's okay. You shouldn't feel self conscious. I understand what you're saying, but I've been reflecting on this too, because this summer, I think, like, June, July, August were really big months for me, reading wise. And I think that in the summer, we're just more energized. There's a lot going on, a lot of energy in that season. And I think coming down from that, as we turn to fall and things kind of slow down, it's kind of natural that, Our reading habits might follow and slow down a little bit too. So, just like everything else, no guilt or shame,

Elizabeth: Yeah, don't make yourself feel bad. For reading.

Martha: No, 

Elizabeth: I like it. 

Martha: Well, let's get into our topic today. 

Elizabeth: Yes. Our topic today is, oh God, [00:07:00] how do you read so much? How do you find the time to read so much? And I'm being a little bit flippant but that is the topic. How do we read so much and tips for reading more if you actually are trying to read more? But the way that this question. when it gets asked to me, this is just in my experience it tends to rub me the wrong way, as you can probably tell by my snarky intro to the topic.

Because I feel like it's one of two things when people say this to me. It's either some version of Wow, how do you have so much free time? You must just have nothing going on in your life. You just must have nothing going on in your life that you have time to read. Or the tone of the question is, I really wish that I could read more, but I just don't have the attention span or the capacity for it anymore.

So you're some kind of superhero [00:08:00] that you can still read. And. Both of those rub me the wrong way, but for different reasons. And you're shaking your head vigorously, so I feel like you've had similar conversations. So before I start getting into my rant about these two, does that align with the way that people have asked you this question?

Is there anything else that you feel like is behind it when you've had these conversations?

Martha: Yes, sometimes it's not even phrased as a question. It's, man, you read so much, or wow, you really read a lot, and it's kind of like that, yeah, yeah, it's kind of like that backhanded compliment. But I do think that there are some people who would like to know how to read more, they have the desire to read more, so this is kind of a, dual topic today.

Really getting at the same thing. But I've definitely experienced the same sort of question, and I also find it slightly annoying.

Elizabeth: Yeah. I [00:09:00] mean, I think that Definitely the first version is the most annoying to me, especially when it's from people who are very into grind, hustle culture, productivity, like Oh, wow, I'm so busy, I could never fit in leisure time when, I mean, I would be willing to bet that those people have time to, scroll on social media or watch their favorite TV show. I mean, and it certainly is the case that some people have more or less free time than others, obviously. And a lot of that depends on, whether you have kids or if you have other care responsibilities, like, aging parents or, a sick spouse, or whether you work full time or not, or maybe you have more than one job, clearly people's situations are different.

Martha: Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth: But, I do think that it's not too far out to say that everyone has some amount of free time where they get to decide what they do with that time. And people just prioritize their free time activities [00:10:00] differently, and so I don't actually think that it's that a reader, like you or me or someone else who reads a lot, has more free time than anyone else.

It's actually just that they prioritize reading during that free time. I prioritize reading and my creative writing to the detriment of every other hobby that I have or would like to have, you know? Like I'm interested in other things. I like to knit. I like to garden. There are lots of other things that in theory I like to do, but , I have a whole big plastic tote full of yarn that I've bought over the last, 15 years that I meant to make some project or another out of and I've never done it because I just don't prioritize that in my free time and I only have so much free time and I prioritize other things.

Martha: And dare I say it's because you enjoy reading more. So you prioritize it.

Elizabeth: right, exactly. That's what, that's what I'm saying. That is my preferred.

Activity for my free time. That and writing.

Martha: I used to [00:11:00] be more so on the side of hustle culture, you could say. I still struggle sometimes with feeling like if I'm not doing something productive, it's not worth my time. But the older I get and the longer I am in the workforce in our capitalistic society, the more I've started to prioritize my free time and really set boundaries around the times that I am working and need to be productive and when it's my time to relax and do what I want.

And as I do that more, I find myself reading more. and there's other ways that we can prioritize reading, and for me, I include reading in a lot of my other hobbies, because I listen to so many audiobooks. I will listen to a book while I'm hiking, or cooking and baking, or working out, or, [00:12:00] taking Ruby for a walk.

I kind of weave it into some of those other hobbies I do when I have free time, so that's a big part of it for me.

Elizabeth: Yeah, that's a great point. I really like what you said, though about allowing yourself more free time and to not think of that as wasted time as you have gotten older, because I really think that I have settled into that, too. And I mean, you know, we grew up with the same mom.

Martha: Mm hmm.

Elizabeth: Love you, mom, if you're listening, but like, she can't, she can't sit down.

She always has to be doing something. She's just very productive and she gets a lot done, but there is, value in allowing yourself to slow down. And I also think that for myself anyway, and I think for a lot of people, the pandemic really brought that home

Martha: Yeah, absolutely.

Elizabeth: You know, I was forced to slow down to a certain extent, and, at first it was really, really difficult, like mentally very bad for me

Martha: Kind of like 

Who am I if I'm not constantly being [00:13:00] productive?

Elizabeth: yeah, and you know, there is an element to which a lot of our society, I mean, we're American women and, upper middle class women at

that, so, we're only talking about our own experiences, but I do think that a lot of the culture of Go! Go! Go! and distractions and all that is so that we don't have to think about

Martha: Oh yeah, 

Elizabeth: our lives and the world and our place in the world and like when you slow down and you have to do that it is kind of a lot.

But I also think that that is good, right? I actually think that that type of thinking is good and obviously I think that reading is good. Even though maybe at certain times in my life I would have thought of reading, especially reading certain books.

Martha: Mm hmm.

Elizabeth: As wasting time, and , we've talked about this before where I've sort of come clean about the way that I used to be snotty about my reading, and so I would have described reading something that was not, a classic or a nonfiction book or a literary fiction book as a waste of time, or my guilty [00:14:00] pleasure, the way that we talked about it in the first episode.

But I very much don't think of it that way anymore. 

Martha: I'm kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'm gonna call myself out a little bit here regarding what I was talking about earlier. Because part of the reason why I love reading as a hobby is because I know how beneficial it is for us. And so I don't feel guilty spending my free time doing it.

So if you're someone who's still struggling with that, it's kind of a happy medium in a way.

Elizabeth: mm, mm hmm. Yeah, that makes sense. And I think that that's okay too. I... I have run across this quote at different times during my life and I never have really bothered to look up where it came from, but for this episode I did look up where it came from because I wanted to be able to put it in the show notes, but the quote is that time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time, [00:15:00] and I found, that it was said by a writer From the early 20th century called Marthe Troly-Curtin.

So I'll put the link where I found that in the show notes, but I just have always really liked that quote, we have one life.

Martha: Yeah, I love that. 

Elizabeth: If we're doing something that we enjoy. That's not wasting our time.

Martha: Yeah, I'm definitely working on that, like I said, as I get older and aligning more and more with that, especially post pandemic.

Elizabeth: And you know, like you said, the reading does have a ton of benefits. So. If you need to comfort yourself with that to get you into a space where you can read, then that is totally fine. I don't always go into all of this when someone asks me the question with that tone to it.

I usually just say, well, you know, it's what I do with my free time and I'm busy just like everyone else, but you know, it's what I do. But I did feel like it was worth unpacking because I do think that it gets into a lot of the underpinnings of our culture that are [00:16:00] problematic and then the other one that I think also has a lot to do with just the way that our culture is ordered and the way that we as a society think of reading and where we place it culturally. A lot of this is very related to what we talked about in the first episode, so if you haven't listened to the first episode, I feel like the first episode is a really good pairing with this one. Because this idea that reading is really difficult, that, the second version of this question, which is like, Oh my God, I just don't have the attention span for that anymore. I don't have the capacity for it. It's so difficult. And, you've managed to escape this modern world somehow, you're some kind of superhero.

And, this one is. It's a little bit sadder to me, and so therefore less annoying. But I do think that it is annoying because it overstates, how hard reading is. And it puts it, again, in that category of being broccoli instead of chocolate to call back to our first episode.

Martha: These kind of statements I think are coming from people [00:17:00] who either don't realize there are so many different kinds of books, like you don't have to be reading literary fiction, and not every reader thinks that they're some , holier than thou, oh I read so I'm so smart, you know, like there's a lot of this on social media where Instagrammers or book-tokers will say like oh when someone asks me what I'm into reading and they're like Oh, I'm into fairy smut, you know And they don't want to answer because people assume that it's going to be something like oh, I love Jane Austen or, you know, whatever.

So,

Elizabeth: Hey, no bagging on Jane

Martha: no, no, Jane Austen's great. But you know what I mean, like people, non readers kind of, give readers that connotation that we think we're better than everyone who, who doesn't read, which isn't the case. Mm

Elizabeth: No, certainly not. I think that's a great point. That is definitely behind some of this The other thing that I have found [00:18:00] is really behind it though is the way that our world is so defined by social media These days these days whenever I say these days. I feel like I'm a hundred years old, but

Martha: Ha, ha 

Elizabeth: I mean, the 21st century, specifically, because before the year 2000, we had the Internet, but it was different, right?

Like, we didn't have as much pulling for our attention. We didn't have Instagram, TikTok, where you're scrolling through the videos and your attention changes from one thing to another every five seconds or whatever. And so it feels anecdotally true that our attention spans have gotten shorter and therefore it would seem like reading something for a sustained amount of time would be more difficult.

And this is something, because I am the age that I am, that I remember very clearly in the early 2000s and the 2010s, people wrote about a lot when social media was becoming really popular. When I looked back at it for this episode and, did a little bit [00:19:00] of research, it actually seemed like it wasn't just people overall.

It was, specifically middle aged people who were really scared about how fast the world was changing around them. The book that I'm thinking of specifically is a book called The Shallows by Nicholas Carr, which was published in 2010. 2010 or 2011. And I think that this book is the source, or at least the beginning of this narrative that people look to as the source for their beliefs that the internet has, ruined our brains for something like reading.

And so I did go back in preparation for this episode and look into it a little bit. I do want to just also note, though, that when I was looking for articles about our shortening attention span and looking into this book, The Shallows, I did find an article from 1987 that said, Is TV Shortening Our Attention Span, is the title of that academic article.

So, even though I think social media[00:20:00] exacerbated this or accelerated this conversation, it is a conversation that we've been having for a really long time. I bet that if I looked, I could probably find articles even older than that about other things that might be shortening our attention span. When I found that article from 1987, I was like, oh my god, there were probably monks in the 15th century, like, meh, the Gutenberg press is going to shorten our attention spans, you know, like, it seems like a tale as old as time.

Martha: Yeah, and I'm sure there were people who thought it was dangerous for the general population to learn how to read, you know, so these questions, in retrospect, always seem a little bit silly.

Elizabeth: Yeah. There is a really great snarky review of The Shallows in The Guardian, which I'll put in the show notes and it's worth reading. It's pretty short, but it starts by pointing out that the very beginning of Carr's book, which is 224 pages long says that For some, the very idea of reading a book [00:21:00] has come to seem old fashioned or maybe even a little silly.

And the writer of the review wonders if he really thought that this was a real widespread problem, why he would choose to write a long book to get the word out about it. And so, they feel like at the very beginning he undercuts himself a little bit. But... There is a lot of research in the book that in the year 2010, up to that point, Carr looked into the latest neuroscience and basically found that it was saying that our brain, our gray matter, is malleable and plastic.

So it's adaptable, it remolds and rewires itself to fit around what we're using it for, basically. And so, You could make the argument that the internet has changed the way that our brains work. But by the same token, it doesn't follow that those changes are irreversible because the whole point of the research is that the brain is capable of [00:22:00] change and adaptation.

And so to me, that seemed to undercut what Carr was saying, even though I will admit that I haven't read the book. I read parts of it when it came out because I remember being interested in it, but I have not read the whole thing. But it just seems to undercut this idea that our brains are ruined, quote unquote, which is something that he says in the book, or even it might even be the subtitle of the book.

When the point of the research that he's pointing out is that our brains can change, that they're capable of change.

Martha: I think this does go really well with the first episode, like you mentioned before, because we talked a lot in the first episode about how listening to an audiobook, if you're not used to it, is something that you have to develop a skill for. And I think it's similar with this topic that, If we allow ourselves to scroll and scroll and scroll and never challenge our brains to do anything different, when the time comes that we have to focus on [00:23:00] something, we could find it very difficult.

But if we are making a choice to do both scrolling and activities like reading or focusing on something for a long period of time, I think we're more than capable of doing both things.

Elizabeth: Yes, exactly. You're a very wise woman. Because. The latest research, and it's a book that I found about this, that was published in 2023 by a professor in the Department of Informatics at the University of California, is all about exactly what you just said. Her thesis is basically, our attention spans have gotten shorter.

But we can counteract that, by being intentional about all sorts of things. So the what you were just describing, she also has lots of other advice in her book about ways to be intentional about lengthening your attention span, but also lowering [00:24:00] the stress that is attendant with constantly changing what you're paying attention to, and, single tasking, like all of these things are things that, Even though our current environment and our current world is not pushing us in those directions, they are things that we can be intentional about.

 I, will put in the show notes an interview that she did with the APA, the American Psychological Association. And I found the way that she was talking about it really interesting. I'm not going to go into all of it. But she does say that in her research where they have, different monitors, like heart rate monitors and devices hooked up to people, so they, can really accurately measure their stress, their heart rate, the way that their eye moves across, screens or a book or whatever they're looking at.

So it's pretty sophisticated. She said that 20 years ago, people averaged 2. 5 minutes of focused attention when they were working online or doing something involving screens. So. For those of us who are old, 20 years ago was 2003, so it was, it was [00:25:00] still within the 21st century, the internet existed before, switching to a different screen.

By 2012, that time span had shrunk to 75 seconds, and by 2021, it had compacted to 47 seconds. So there is evidence that, our default setting for our attention spans has shrunk. But like I said, the upshot is that at least this researcher thinks that it's something that you can counteract.

So yeah, exactly like you were saying, I think of it like it's a muscle, like the way that when you exercise, especially if you haven't done it in a long time, it is difficult. It hurts sometimes, but then the next time that you go to do it, it's a little bit easier and you can do a little bit more.

 I really feel like the bottom line to this is that there's a difference between what we do and what we're capable of doing,

Martha: Yeah, and it, it takes a level of intentionality. You're probably not gonna read more [00:26:00] on accident. You're gonna have 

Elizabeth: no, exactly. 

Martha: to, do it intentionally and put in some work to make it happen.

Elizabeth: Yeah, like if I decided tomorrow that I was going to start knitting the sweater that I bought four bags of yarn for 10 years ago, it would be really tough going at first, right? I haven't knitted for a while. I wouldn't remember how to do it. I would have to start over a bunch of times, but it doesn't mean I'm not capable of doing it eventually, of getting better at it and finishing it, 

 It's just about that intentionality. Now that we have sort of dispensed with those two more annoying iterations of these conversations what if someone is actually asking this question in earnest? Like they want to read more, they want to know how you do it, it's not loaded as a backhanded compliment.

What tips would you have for them? You already gave us one, which is that you listen to audiobooks while you're doing other things. But I feel like you're sort of the queen of this, so let's hear your tips, Martha. Mm

Martha: Well the first one I would say is, going back to that [00:27:00] intentionality,

Setting a reading goal so whether that is for the year, the month, a week, whatever it may be I find that setting a goal can be helpful... Personally, in January, I set a goal that I wanted to read more books. on paper, more physical books, because I was listening to a ton of audiobooks, but not prioritizing reading on paper, and I really wanted to experience both. So, I set a goal for one paper book a month, and The first couple months, I think I met that goal and then quickly just surpassed it.

One month, I read like four books on paper and just kind of took off with it. But like I said, that wouldn't have happened on accident. I had to set the goal and then try and reach it to make that happen. So I think different sorts of reading goals, it doesn't have to be the same as mine can be very [00:28:00] helpful.

Elizabeth: And it doesn't have to be about a total number of books read. That's what I like about this goal of yours too, I think that reading goals is something that we want to talk about at some point and devote a whole episode to, but I really liked that , it was something that you wanted to change about your reading, but it wasn't overly difficult.

 It was achievable for you. And it wasn't just about the quantity of your reading, right? So I really like that

Martha: I think goals in general should be flexible. I think that it's important to make them somewhat challenging, but like you said, attainable, because I know personally. If I feel overwhelmed by a goal, then often I just won't even try. I'll just abandon ship altogether.

Elizabeth: hmm.

Martha: So that's one way. Another way is to only read what you like.

You don't have to finish every book you start. Like we went over in Episode 2.[00:29:00] 

Elizabeth: Yep, DNF.

Don't finish it if you're not enjoying it

Really get through the books that way. No, just kidding.

Martha: well, and I was thinking about this when we were talking earlier about people who find reading really difficult, I bet that they're trying to finish books that aren't really capturing their attention that they don't really like, and I think that happens a lot when you first Start reading and you don't really know what you like, so if you're finding it hard to finish a book, just don't finish it and try something else.

Elizabeth: hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. That's great advice.

Martha: So, the other way we already touched on are listening to audiobooks. So, I mentioned that I listen to them. In conjunction with a lot of my other hobbies, but they also really helped me get through a lot of mundane tasks. I think I've mentioned this before on the podcast that I'm self diagnosed.

So take it with a grain of salt, ADD. So it helps me [00:30:00] get through tasks that I don't look forward to, like cleaning, mowing the lawn, driving. Walking the dog, getting ready for work, that sort of thing. So if you get into audiobooks, it's a really easy way to up the amount of reading that you're doing.

Elizabeth: Yeah, totally. One of the things that I also do, because I'm mainly a paper book reader, is that I will bring a print book with me a lot of places that I go, and this is also something that you see on, Instagram and TikTok a lot, we have a lot of videos , from people to share when this episode comes out, but this is something that I do, I mean, I don't bring a book with me every single place that I go, but I will bring a book with me if I know that I'm going to be, waiting in a doctor's office or, somewhere where I know that I'll have, at least a snippet of time. 10 minutes, 15 minutes, because I can get some pages in. Mm

Martha: I love that, and I don't really do that, because I always have an audiobook queued up that kind of [00:31:00] serves the same purpose, but it is slightly different because I I do sometimes have a hard time listening to an audiobook if my body isn't doing something. So, for example, if I'm sitting on a plane, I'm not listening to an audiobook.

I can't, I wouldn't be able to focus on the book because my body would just be sitting and I could not do that. So, on a plane, I would maybe have some music on my headphones and I would read a physical book. So that's where I would bring a book

Elizabeth: That is so interesting. What do you think that is about?

Martha: Like I said, I think it's my non diagnosed ADD like when I have to be doing something with my hands Scott and I talk about this a lot like if I'm in the car if I don't want to be scrolling on My phone I'm like I need a fidget spinner or something. I can be 

Elizabeth: Mm 

Martha: Physically doing with my body.

So that's just me and I'm sure a lot of other people are like me out there.[00:32:00] 

Elizabeth: I'm sure they are. 

Martha: Another thing you could consider, whether you're trying to read more books, or just different books than you normally, would are joining book clubs, whether they're online or locally, or just planning to read books with friends. I think that can be a great way to kind of push you outside of your comfort zone or your normal habits.

But of course, with the caveat that If you're not enjoying the book, even if you're reading it for a book club or with friends, you don't have to finish it, right?

Elizabeth: No, yeah, that's a good point. The book club or the friend reading group really does increase the social pressure to finish the book. But yeah, I would definitely agree that you should still not finish it if you're not liking it and just skip the meeting or like just tell your friends that you didn't read it and you know, just listen to their conversation about it and drink the wine while you

Martha: Yeah, I think that could be a great way, if you're comfortable enough to admit, which you should be, because there's no reason why you shouldn't, if you're comfortable [00:33:00] to admit that you didn't finish, going to the meeting could be a great way to... Hear about what happened or how it ended if you really don't care to finish it, but you're curious So just let them know I didn't finish it, but I still want to hear what everyone thought about it.

Elizabeth: Yeah, absolutely. And we've done that where We found a book that we both thought was interesting and we've read it together and it was really fun And then we get to talk about it. One that I do That has sort of mixed success is reading every night before I go to bed and the reason I say it has mixed success is because I tend to fall asleep so that's a good thing because I do it to help me fall asleep, but it means that I don't read very much before I go to bed.

 Usually I only get about 10 pages in before I'm too tired to keep going but I know some people who like to read At different times, it becomes a ritual for them at different times, not just before bed. Some people read right when they wake up before they start getting [00:34:00] ready for their day.

So I think that finding a time in your day that works for you to read and making it a habit, just like any other habit, the more you do it, the more it will become second nature and it'll just become a part of your day

Martha: Mm hmm. I love that, and I think there's a lot of opportunities where people could do that, like, when you're sitting in line to pick your kids up from school, or, any of those instances where you might pull your phone out and scroll for ten minutes, you could get a few pages in.

Elizabeth: Yeah, and you can have a book on your phone

Martha: Mm hmm. Yeah,

Elizabeth: It doesn't necessarily have to be a paper book obviously,

Martha: yeah, obviously. I think this next one I want to touch on goes along with reading at night and how it can sometimes not always happen depending on the night. I noticed that when I cut back drinking alcohol, My reading increased quite a bit because I found even if I had just one beer at [00:35:00] night after work to relax, my brain it's not in the mode of wanting to focus on a book, especially a book on paper, you know, after I have a beer, I'd rather watch TV or something like that that didn't take too much mental capacity. And in the same way, I think if you have a couple drinks and then you try and read before bed, it might not be successful. So, that's not to say that you have to quit drinking to read more, but just something that I noticed.

Elizabeth: Yeah, and I definitely think that that's true. Now that you say it, I totally feel the same way. I haven't cut back on drinking intentionally, but I don't, have a drink every single day. And so definitely on the days where I haven't had anything to drink, I think I'm more likely to read more or to want to do something else other than, Just watch TV after

Martha: Mm hmm. Mm

Elizabeth: dinner, right?

I think that those are the nights where it's more likely that my husband and I will read our book together or I'll, go off and do something else after dinner [00:36:00] instead of just watching TV. So yeah, I think that that is a good point.

Martha: And the other thing that I would say is that when you are trying to read, when you're really trying to focus, put your phone on do not disturb. Just remove the temptation, remove the distraction, and just make it so you're not easily accessible by the world.

Elizabeth: Yeah, that's a great point. And I would say for people for whom it's really difficult to do that I don't do this with reading, but I do it with writing is I set a timer for how long I want to be focusing on the thing I'm doing before I can look at my phone again. And there's all sorts of ways that you can do it.

 You can actually set the timer on your phone or you can set a Pomodoro timer if you are in a room with a computer, although that would sort of defeat the purpose. Just setting some type of timer where it's like, okay, and you can start small, like I'm going to set this timer for 10 minutes, and I'm just [00:37:00] not allowed to look at my phone, but it's only for 10 minutes, and then once the 10 minutes are up, I can look at my phone as a reward.

I find that that is helpful, for my brain that needs accountability, and often when the timer goes off, for writing, I usually set it to like 25 or 30 minutes. And often when the timer goes off I actually don't look at my phone because at that point I've gotten into it enough that I don't want to be distracted from it because I'm enjoying it.

So it's just a little way to trick myself that I found really helps.

Martha: Yeah, I think that's great.

Elizabeth: Yeah. What else? Any other ideas?

Martha: Quit your job. Of course, I'm kidding. I'm 

Elizabeth: If only, if only.

Martha: right? Unfortunately, we need our jobs to be able to afford books 

Elizabeth: Yeah, right. 

Martha: brings us into our next topic that we wanted to mention just really quickly [00:38:00] that there are ways to save money. You don't need to buy every book brand new that you read. And Elizabeth, as a librarian, I'm sure you can agree with me on that.

Elizabeth: Yeah, definitely. I hardly buy any books, honestly, because I work at a library and I just have access to any and every book that I want to read, and so it's gotten to the point where I will buy a book if I've read it and I know it's something that I'm going to want to reread or that I just want to own for whatever reason, but, if I don't know if I'm going to like a book, especially given that I just have a very brutal policy about Not finishing a book.

If I don't get into it in the first, you know, 25 pages, I'm not gonna spend $15

Martha: Mm hmm.

Elizabeth: on something that I might only read 20 pages of. You know, that's, I can't afford that. So yeah, I read pretty much only library books

Martha: hmm. And I love that. Then if you like the book, you can support a local indie [00:39:00] bookstore and support the author by purchasing the book if it's something you want to have on your shelf. But if you're not someone who typically re reads books, You don't ever have to buy them if you don't want to, if you can get them from the library.

 I've seen creators online mention that they will use e readers and there's a lot of events like Stuff Your Kindle Day and that sort of thing where you can get e books for Pretty cheap and then they'll say if they read a book on their e reader and they love it They will make a point to go to a local bookstore and purchase it so that they are supporting the local Small indie bookstore and also the author by by purchasing the book again.

So I like that.

Elizabeth: That's great. Yeah, I really like that too. And then of course there are, used bookstores library sales. There are lots of ways to get books that if you do prefer to buy your book and own it so that you don't have to [00:40:00] worry about if you spill your

coffee on it or if you're one of those people that likes to scribble in the margins or whatever you know, there are used bookstores, often there are like The shelf that's like, you know, fill a box or something for a dollar at different thrift stores

Martha: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Elizabeth: you see, or a bag of books that you can just get if you, if you like to read the kind of books that are there.

And then of course borrowing books from, friends and family. But, don't spill your

Martha: Yeah.

Elizabeth: or write in the margins. And always give them back! I've been the victim of people borrowing my books and not giving them back so many times. And since, I only buy books that I really want to own, it's even worse when that happens.

So if you borrow a book from a friend, always return it in the same condition

Martha: yes, absolutely. I, I will second that. And I, I love looking for books at the thrift store because, again, if you're trying to read outside of your typical genre, that can be a low stakes way to try something new. It's probably only gonna be a dollar or two and you can try it [00:41:00] out.

And if there's a really popular book or series. It could almost become a scavenger hunt to see if you can get them all from the thrift store. I did that with my Harry Potter hardcovers. I kind of just stalked the thrift stores for a while and collected them kind of one by one as they came up. So I think that can be really fun.

And my local recycling center has a used bookstore too. So I think there's a lot of unusual places where you can find great deals on books.

Elizabeth: Yeah, definitely. You mentioning the books that are really popular and finding those after their popularity has waned, after they're not the new hot thing anymore. I know I already said library sales, but that is a great thing to look at, a library sale because often public library systems, especially in bigger places, will buy 20, 30, 40 copies of a really hot [00:42:00] book that comes out because they'll have, waiting lists of hundreds of people who want to check it out right when it comes out.

Like I think in six months if you wanted to find a copy of Fourth Wing

Martha: Mm hmm.

Elizabeth: a library sale would be a great place to look because they're not going to keep 40 copies of it for the rest of time. , once the wait list goes down, some of those copies are gonna go

Martha: Mm hmm.

Elizabeth: So,

Martha: That's a great librarian hot take. I love that.

Elizabeth: Yeah, there you go. A tip, a library hot tip.

I also think that this, I mean you said this earlier, but just to wrap up this conversation, I feel like this time of year is a really great time to be thinking about some of these ways that you could increase your reading because like you were saying This is the time for drawing in, and, we aren't as social, we aren't as busy, get cozy, get a blanket, get a, you know, cup of tea or hot coco or whatever and curl up with a book instead of maybe doing something that, that would be your default, if you want to read more, again, no judgment, if you'd rather, you know, binge Real [00:43:00] Housewives or something, like, that's great, I'm not judging you for that, but if you do want to read more, I feel like winter is a great time to do that. And the thing that made me think of that is that a lot of the funny memes about how do you read so much on social media are basically like, I don't have a social life

Martha: Yeah.

Elizabeth: Anytime people want to make plans with me, I tell them no, which obviously would not necessarily be advice that we would give you because everyone's different and how much they like to socialize.

But I do think that winter is a time where most people, no matter if you're introverted or extroverted, tend to socialize a little bit less. So it might be a good time to try to increase your reading.

Martha: Mm hmm. Definitely. So if you try any of these tips and you found them helpful, we would love to hear from you on social media.

We're on Instagram and TikTok at allbooksaloudpod. And make sure you subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And read on, my friends. 

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