How do siblings grow up to be different types of readers? A chat with all four Brookbank siblings!

Two very special guests joined us for this episode - the other half of our sibling quartet, Bekka and Mike. Listen in as we talk about our early experiences with reading, the similarities in how our reading journeys started, where our tastes differ, and how we took different paths based on our personality traits.

We really enjoyed reminiscing with our siblings and reflecting on some childhood nostalgia, and we hope you'll enjoy it, too!
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Books we're reading in this episode: 
The Light Years by Elizabeth Jane Howard (The Cazalet Chronicles #1)
Nettle and Bone by T. Kingfisher
A Court of Wings and Ruin by Sarah J. Maas
Why Women Grow by Alice Vincent
Neuromancer by William Gibson (Sprawl #1)

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Intro and outro music: "The Chase," by Aves.

Do you have thoughts, questions, or ideas for future episodes? Email us at allbooksaloudpod@gmail.com. And if you want to learn more about the podcast, visit our website at allbooksaloudpod.com.

If you liked this episode, please consider leaving us a review to help us reach more listeners.

And if you'd like to see more bookish content from Martha & Elizabeth, follow us on Instagram and TikTok @allbooksaloudpod.

Read on!

Transcript

[All Books Aloud intro and theme music]

Martha: Hey, Liz.

Elizabeth: Hi, Martha. How are you? I'm great, we have two very special guests for this episode. Do you want to introduce yourselves? . 

Bekka: I'm Bekka. 

Mike: My name's Mike. 

Martha: And, we are recording this in person together. Bekka and Mike are our two siblings, so this is a Brookbank family episode.

Elizabeth: Yep, the four Brookbank [00:01:00] siblings, all together and ready to talk about reading.

Martha: So let's start off with, what are you reading, Liz? 

Elizabeth: I am, Still reading The Light Years, which is the first book in the Cazalet Chronicles by Elizabeth Jane Howard, which I was reading last time we recorded

it's really long. I want to say it's almost 500 pages. And, It's historical and literary fiction. I would put it in both of those buckets, so it's taking me a little bit longer to read. There are five of them, and I think I said last time that I intended on reading all five in a row, but I think I'm probably not going to do that, because they're kind of heavy.

Martha: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: And even though I felt like I was ready to get into something heavier, I'm probably not ready to do five in a row. 

Martha: Yeah, which is fine. That's understandable. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, so that's still what I'm reading. What are you reading, Martha? Yeah, 

Martha: Similarly, I am still reading Nettle and Bone by T.

Kingfisher, but now I'm about halfway through and it's really getting good. Marra is on her journey to save her sister and [00:02:00] she's teamed up with a witch and a man that they ended up buying at a goblin market, so now they're on a quest All three of them together. Yeah. I don't want to spoil too much, but I just wanted to share a little bit more because I didn't know too much about it last time.

 It's good. It's really good. , and I'm still listening to A Court of Wings and Ruin by Sarah J. Maas. I haven't listened to much because I'm traveling again and I don't listen to my audiobooks as much when I'm traveling. So that's what I'm reading.

Elizabeth: , what are you reading right now, Bekka? 

Bekka: I'm reading Why Women Grow by Alice Vincent. 

Elizabeth: What's it about? 

Bekka: Well, I just started it.

 It starts during the pandemic, at the beginning of the pandemic, and the author is interested in why women grow [00:03:00] gardens, houseplants, and what they get out of it, and just the meaning behind it. And she has a lot of houseplants and some herbs and flowers on this balcony and a new rental that she has.

And she's going through a lot of changes between the pandemic, managing that and getting married and living with her husband in this small apartment, the tiny little balcony. That's like a little jungle. So she creates this online form for other women to fill out and kind of a little questionnaire. to get to know why they grow and if she wants to go interview them.

So that's where I'm at right now. And it, it's interesting. And I, I have houseplants and I love houseplants and growing up, we, as you know, had a huge garden that we would help out in and it's, it's off to a good start. It's interesting.

Elizabeth: Where'd you get that [00:04:00] book? 

Bekka: My sister Elizabeth sent it to me for Christmas.

. , it's supposed to be really good, it won the women's prize this year. And then it says on the cover from the author of Rootbound. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, Rootbound is the one that I had heard of before.

The only reason I bring that up, not to be a dork about the fact that I gave it to you, but it's because we did an episode about giving books as gifts. And this book is a good example of the way that Because you're, a reader to a certain extent and you read, but I wouldn't say that it's one of the main things that you would say, , about your personality, right?

But I wanted to give you a book, not just because it's like, oh, well, I'm a reader and I'm going to give Bekka this book, but because that specific book spoke to me for you, because you are really into plants. And because we both were really into helping our mom in the garden.

And we've talked before about some of the. Self help y feel of the book and so it just really spoke to me for you and so what Martha and I talked about on the gift giving episode Is how you don't want to get someone a book because it's like [00:05:00] Like, you don't want it to be for you.

Martha: Yeah, just for the sake of it. Like, if Liz would have sent you her favorite book, that wouldn't have been a good gift. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. 

Elizabeth: So, that's a good example of how, , maybe a book isn't the first thing that I would have thought of, but then when I saw that specific book, I was like, oh, this really speaks to me for Bekka, and , maybe she won't like it, but it's the way that you go out on a limb for gifts that you think might be into people's interests.

So. 

Bekka: Yeah, and I, when I opened it, I was excited, and I thought it was sweet that it made you think of me, and that's how I took it. . 

Elizabeth: Yeah, I don't want it to ever be taken when I give books where somehow I'm trying to improve the person or something, which is sometimes a little bit of a danger with giving.

books that, because Martha and I talk about this all the time on the podcast, but , being a reader is so, loaded for some people with the idea that somehow it's , makes you a better person, or , you think you're better than other people, or that you're smarter, or if you give someone a book, it's like, you should read this book, you know?

Yeah, 

Martha: Yeah, there's a lot of judgments that some people make around reading.

Elizabeth: [00:06:00] Which we don't agree with. Yeah.

anyway, that was a little bit of a tangent. Michael, what are you reading right now? 

Mike: I'm reading, well, rereading Neuromancer by William Gibson. So I wanted to read his Sprawl Trilogy, that's the first book in. So I read it first when I was, uh, late teens or early 20s, I don't remember, but, I'm enjoying it so far.

Science fiction, well cyberpunk, science fiction. 

Elizabeth: What's cyberpunk? 

Mike: It's a, sub genre of science fiction. It's more, I think like, the matrix or, 

Martha: you 

Mike: know, cyborgs implants, , stuff like, like the main character, burnt an employer kind of stole money from him. So they, , basically downloaded a virus into his brain that prevented him from surfing the web.

Pretty much. He's trying to figure out how to reverse that, and get back in there. Because he Feels like a fish out of water he feels like there's no sense in living without being able to [00:07:00] Jack into the matrix pretty much 

Martha: So this is a reread for you. We just talked about rereading on our last episode So what's it been like rereading?

Do you remember the book from when you read it the first time or do you feel like? There's a lot of things you've forgotten. It's a new experience or what's it been like to revisit this book? 

Mike: , there's a lot of stuff I've forgotten. I'll be reading parts of it and be like, Oh, I remember that.

You know, it's been so long and you just have a new perspective on pretty much everything. So it's new in that sense. Old material, new, Interpretation, I guess. 

Elizabeth: Martha and I disagreed about re reading. She's a big re reader, but I don't usually re read. Why did you decide to re read it in the first place?

Mike: It's in line with some story I've been knocking around in my head that I want to write down, so. Oh. I'm trying to, read the tropes that fall in line with what I've been thinking about. 

Elizabeth: Yeah. 

Mike: To see how to. Expound on [00:08:00] them or come up with a new twist on it or something.

Yeah 

Martha: Which is one of the things that came up with rereading of why people reread. So that's cool And you said it was a series, but have you read the other books in this series or just this first one? 

Mike: No, that's another thing. I've never read the other two books in the series, even though Neuromancer is one of my All time favorite books.

Kind of funny. I never got around to reading the other two. So that's why I'm, that's another reason why I'm rereading this one is because I don't want to just jump into book two 

Martha: without remembering the 

Mike: whole story. Remembering the whole plot. 

Elizabeth: Cool. I do feel like Martha brought me around a little bit on rereading towards the end of it, and both of those things that you just said are reasons that we talked about for rereading.

, okay, cool. For this episode, we don't have a really defined topic, but our idea is that we wanted to talk about how all four of us, grew up in the same family, obviously, , but [00:09:00] how we all grew into our own unique,

Martha: reading 

Elizabeth: journeys. Yeah, I feel like we're all readers to a certain extent, but we all have really different ways that we engage with books, histories with reading, ways that we feel about it, ways that we would include it in our list of things that we do or don't do or in our personalities.

And so we just thought it would be interesting to talk about that because obviously Martha and I talk about that a lot on the podcast as sisters, but you two are the other half . of our siblings, so we thought it might be interesting to compare notes in that way. One of the things that we could start out with is what you remember about reading when you were a kid.

Were you readers as kids? I don't remember. Because I always remember being a big reader as a kid. That has been a main component of my personality since the beginning of time.

, but then Martha has shared before that you never really felt like a big reader. 

Martha: Well, , we kind of debunk that. 

Oh, 

Elizabeth: right. Cause 

you did read. 

Martha: Yeah, I did read. It was just a stigma when I [00:10:00] was an adult listening to audio books and Feeling like that was invalidated, I wasn't a reader. I definitely remember reading with mom a lot as a kid.

And I had a lot of favorite picture books, like Stella Luna. , we would read Just So Stories. Mom had a lot of books from her childhood, too. I remember flipping through books from the fifties. She had all these craft books that we would read. I would like to read and I didn't necessarily do the crafts.

I'm sure Bekka can relate to that too. So that's my earliest memories of reading is just with mom and then in school, obviously, and then as a young reader getting into fantasy, like Chronicles of Narnia and Philip Pullman. And I definitely think I took a break, , in my late high school through college years.

And then I came back to reading later.

Elizabeth: What about you, Michael? 

Mike: I remember the picture books with mom. That one, what [00:11:00] was that one? The Dog Spot or something? Yeah, yeah, that's a classic. 

Elizabeth: Also, were you related to Clifford? 

Bekka: Yes. 

Elizabeth: I feel 

like you were really into Clifford the Big Red Dog. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And Martha was too. 

Mike: Yeah, I think I was too. And then, , there was one about, I think it was like a mechanic, he owned a mechanic shop or something. You know, I remember, I like that. And then I remember elementary school, staying up late and reading Animorphs after lights out 

I would stay up late and, you I'd get sucked into those anamorphs. 

Anamorphs, 

Martha: I remember that. What, were they, was that a graphic novel? 

Mike: No, it was young adult novels about, these teenagers that can morph into different animals. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, before Twilight. 

Mike: And then I remember that there's one book they battle some alien creatures or something.

, but yeah, they just went on all different kinds of, Adventures. 

Martha: We read, do you remember the boxcar stories? Or was that Bekka? 

Bekka: Yeah, that was me.

Elizabeth: Oh my God. 

I loved the boxcar children. Yeah. [00:12:00] Yeah. 

Bekka: I loved those too. I forgot about that, but as soon as you said that, I was like, yes, that was me.

Yes, the boxcar children. Yeah. 

Elizabeth: What else did you read as a kid? Do you remember? 

Bekka: I was definitely more of a reader when I was younger than I am now. Babysitter Club series. I read all of those. I really got into our cousin, Jacob's archie comics. Oh, that's what I would go visit him,, he had a whole box of them, and I would go through them and read them. And I'm a very visual learner, visual person, and , at that time I didn't know why I liked them so much, but now I know that was part of it. Yeah. And when I was As a young adult in my early 20s, I really got into the graphic novels, , called Invader Zim and Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, which are the same author.

I can't think of his name. And I would go through mom's, old magazines. I [00:13:00] loved the better. I loved looking through the better home and garden magazines and would eventually cut them up to make collages and Bernstein Bears. Oh my God. 

Martha: Yes. Yeah, that was a big one.

Bekka: There's a lot of childhood books. I can't think of, but I know there were a lot and , we grew up without social media and all those distractions. We had Nintendo and Game Boys and stuff, but I think that's part of why I was more into it when we were younger. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, it was like one of the only things to do.

Bekka: There's so much more distractions now. 

Elizabeth: The other thing that, , triggered my memory, when Martha was talking about books from mom's childhood, I got really into Nancy Drew.

Bekka: Yeah. Do you remember reading Nancy Drew? Or was that just me? I was trying, I was trying to think there's a, Girl Detective series. Yes. Nancy Drew. And I'm sure I probably got into that because of you. [00:14:00] Two years apart and I've always looked up to you and I would get into certain things that you did.

Copying me. Yes, and you would be like, stop copying me. 

Elizabeth: That was when we were younger. Yeah, yeah. 

Bekka: But, uh, yeah, I loved 

Elizabeth: Nancy Drew. Oh, that's right, Nancy Drew. God, I loved those books. And it's so weird to think that I read them and loved them when I was a little kid because that would have been the 80s, 90s and she was from the 50s and 60s.

Bekka: Yeah, yeah. There was also Another detective series, but it was two brothers, two young brothers. Yeah, the Hardy 

Elizabeth: Boys. Yeah, yeah. I didn't like the Hardy Boys as much. I didn't read as many of those, but yeah, definitely the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew usually go together. Yeah. In 

Martha: the same 

Elizabeth: sentence.

That's funny. Do 

Martha: you want to recap your experience, 

Elizabeth: Liz? I always did. remember being a reader and being into books. When I was in third grade I remember very clearly that we did this project in school with my third grade teacher.

 We had to write a story and then we drew [00:15:00] pictures for it and illustrated the story and then the teacher laminated the pages where we wrote the story and had the pictures and spiral bound them. And I was obsessed with that project.

Like, it was the best thing I had ever done. It was my favorite school project ever. And I loved it so much that I asked the teacher if I could do more of them. Bless my dork heart. And so that year, because she was a good teacher. She was like, yeah, let's do it. And so I just wrote story after story and illustrated them and she would laminate them and spiral bind them for me.

So I have six or seven books, quote unquote, that I created that year. , so I always wanted to be a writer and to make books and, author books. And those are the first books I wrote. And then I would do it at home. I would write stories on, pads of paper, and then I would staple them together, or some of them 

I , used a hole punch and tied them together with yarn to make a book. So I was always obsessed with books, the reading them and the [00:16:00] idea of writing them. , I very clearly remember doing Book It when I was a kid. Did any of the rest of you do that? It was a school managed book.

Was it summer? I feel 

Martha: like it was all year. I think it was all year. Is that where you got stars for each book you read? Yes. And then if you filled up a sheet you got a free personal pan pizza. Personal pan pizza. 

Elizabeth: I remember that! Pizza Hut. Pizza Hut. Which to us, we never got to eat food like that. Yeah. So getting a freaking personal pan pizza at Pizza Hut was like the height.

, I remember doing book it a lot, , at certain points, mom had to read me the books. And then as I got older, it was books that I read myself. I remember when mom and dad moved out of Alaska, and we were going through stuff in their house.

I mean, I just had book it pin after book it pin I had a box there must have been at least a dozen of them. I did that program until it couldn't be done anymore. , so yeah, I was always reader. Even when I was in high school and , in theory, people would [00:17:00] normally be doing other things.

I would just be in my room reading. We've talked before about how during high school I went through a phase where I was reading classics that were definitely above my pay grade in terms of what I was able to understand. , I remember that I read the book Camille, which is about a French prostitute in the 19th century who dies of probably some sexually transmitted disease.

I didn't understand what was happening. , I just read the book and was like, oh, how tragic this woman dies and all these people love her. Freshman year, Mrs. Lawton gave us a list of 200 classics. And I got this idea that I was going to go through and read them all.

So I just started reading them and checking them off the list. So again, that's the type of dork that I was. 

Martha: Another core memory around books and reading that I have, which I'm sure you guys share, is the Scholastic Book Fair that they would put up in the library at elementary school. I loved that [00:18:00] thing. And I remember, , When Captain Underpants just came out, the first book, I'm wanting that book from the Scholastic Book Fair, and I think it's still a thing now, which is pretty impressive.

Elizabeth: Yeah, 

Martha: it is. Because that was in the 90s, but 

Elizabeth: Yeah, they still 

Mike: have it. I remember Magic School Bus from that, time. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, I feel like teachers read that to us at school. Speaking of, so mom read to all of us. We all remember that. And that I know from the research that we've talked about before, that that is a huge part of turning kids into readers. And the reason that you want to turn kids into readers at that Key age between six years old and 11 years old is because then it translates into a bunch of other things you do Better in school, you have better critical thinking skills, blah blah blah blah blah.

, is parents reading to their kids? So , we all remember that. We all remember the scholastic book fair. We remember book it. What about the library? Because I remember going to the little public library in our town and , [00:19:00] carrying out as many books as I could. Do y'all remember going to that library?

Yeah. Yeah. 

Bekka: I remember it fondly 

Martha: I remember going to story time there even it was so small The kids section was so tiny and I remember for years Never being able to go upstairs because that was the adult section. So I didn't even know what the upstairs of the library looked 

like, but I remember the library very well.

Yeah. 

Elizabeth: Yeah. The downstairs was a kid's section. And then at a certain point, I remember when I was allowed to go upstairs, probably around the time that I started my classics project, I was like, I need to go upstairs. That's where the books that I want are. And yeah, it was like entering a whole new world, even though when you, well, now the library is in a different building.

It's not the same anymore. But when I have visited as an adult, and you go in, you're like, Oh, my God, this is so small. Why did it seem so big when I was a kid? Yeah. Do you remember the library, Michael? 

Mike: Yeah, 

I remember how it smelled. Yeah. The book jackets that they put on all their books and stuff.

Yeah. Yeah, it does smell. Just checking out stacks. [00:20:00] 

Martha: And the card, wasn't it tan with brown writing? Yeah, yeah. And you had 

Elizabeth: to sign it, right? Uh huh. Yeah. Your little kid scrawl. Signature on it. So I feel like that's another, piece that I assumed that we would all remember in common.

 It seems like to this point we have had really similar reading journeys and reading experiences. So now I'd be interested to know when and why we feel like we, went different directions with reading. Because Michael, you're still a big reader, but you read totally different things than Martha and I did.

Whereas when we were talking about our reading when we were kids, we all read similar things and remember similar things. So maybe when you figured out that you love the genres you love, or when you figured out that actually you want to prioritize different things, I'd love to hear more, Bekka, about the visual learning stuff for you.

Because that 

could 

potentially be a big part of why. , you're also so artistic, so maybe it's an issue of you prioritizing doing more crafty and arty things. I don't know. What do you [00:21:00] think? 

Mike: Throughout high school I'd read stuff like Hunter S Thompson and Fahrenheit 451.

I remember that was required reading. A clockwork orange, stuff like that. , and then when I, yeah. moved out of state and lived in DC for a little bit. They had an awesome bookstore there and I'd read, Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut in high school and I bought that again. I think that kind of drove me into science fiction , because I really liked satire and he does, , sci fi satire, so that opened up, the science fiction genre to me and I've just pretty much stayed there since then.

 I've read outside I remember reading the bell jar. That's one of my favorite books. , which, you know, if I just read a blurb on it, I'd be like, well, I wouldn't like that book, but , I read it and it really stuck with me. It was really good. But I think that was a suggestion from a, well, high school teacher when I was 21 after I dropped out and went back.

She, 

Elizabeth: the bell jar [00:22:00] was, 

Mike: yeah, she was awesome. She suggested the stranger by Camus to me and bell jar and , she was pretty good about suggesting books that were outside of my comfort zone, but , I really ended up liking, but yeah, I'm just drawn towards science fiction. I like other stuff and when I make myself read it, I enjoy it, but I just don't make myself read 

Martha: it.

 Liz and I have talked about a little bit, I think, on the show how fantasy or sci fi can be more of an escape because it's not based in reality. So it puts a lens on difficult topics and makes it a little bit of a different experience than if you were reading something that's based in our world that's heavy.

Mike: Uh, yeah, I haven't really thought deeply about why I'm drawn to it. Yeah, it's just a different way to explore. present issues, 

 I'm thinking about some books that are more a form of escape, which are fine [00:23:00] too. But the ones I'm drawn to, it's just a different way to think about, common issues. It's really relevant now with Neuromancer, with the whole AI thing and everything else like 

Martha: that.

Mike: And I do like how Older books that in the future get more relevant as they age, kind of like 1984 and stuff like that. It's interesting seeing, how right they were, how wrong they were. 

Elizabeth: Yeah. Alex talks about that a lot with science fiction. My husband Alex and you and him have really similar reading tastes, you've swapped books back and forth.

And he likes science fiction because he likes reading about ideas and issues and philosophical. conceits without the baggage of realistic modern day politics, for instance, or, , things where people have already made up their mind and they're in one camp or another, he likes to explore ideas without having that preconceived notion and science fiction in a world that's not [00:24:00] real, that's totally different from what you've experienced that the politics don't apply, allows you to do that.

So do you feel like maybe that is part of what you're describing about issues? Or is it not? 

Mike: Yeah. I could see how it forces you to think outside the box and leave your biases behind. Some authors are more heavy handed than others, I recently read Solaris by Stanislav Lin and that one's kind of heavy, , it's more, , philosophical and stuff, but.

 You don't need to read a bunch of philosophers before you read that book. Right. Yeah, you don't need that. 

Elizabeth: You're still engaging with ideas. 

Mike: Yeah. 

Elizabeth: The other thing that it made me think of while you were talking about how some core, classic authors got you into that genre, is is you were naming off all these classics that were on my list of classics, but that I've never read because just for whatever reason, I wasn't drawn to them.

 The classics that I was drawn to were, Jane Austen, Jane Eyre, , things like Camille, these , British [00:25:00] and French Western Europe 19th century vibe was what I was drawn to. And reading those classic authors. Pushed me more in that direction whereas the classics authors that you read and enjoyed pushed you in another direction But that we both could have been reading from the same list all of the books that we've read talked about were on that list.

Martha: Well, and like you just said, you just weren't really drawn to those for whatever reason. So it's probably based in your individual personalities and how it split off. , that's really interesting to think about. I'm also curious if you, Michael, ever took a break from reading was there ever a point in your life where you weren't really reading or have you consistently read throughout?

Mike: I've Always read on and off, but yeah, there's definitely been stretches of years where I've only read one or two books a year. My time would get taken up by other hobbies or, video games or something. I get sucked down other rabbit holes. 

Elizabeth: Yeah. 

 But it's always been,, at least a background part of my life.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Like we've talked about how after [00:26:00] college I basically couldn't read for a while. I was read out, which after what I just described is, was a little upsetting to me. I was like, oh no, am I ever going to be able to read again? But I did, obviously. What about you, Bekka? Do you feel like there's a point in your life where you remember being like, yeah, I'm not really into reading anymore?

 Like, I was talking about there weren't. As many graphic novels when we were kids, so maybe there weren't as many things that Pulled on your interest the way that Michael and I were just talking about 

Bekka: or what do you think? I've never sat down and thought about it before this. i've always just been Random with it, I think i've always preferred fiction but I haven't I haven't really explored a lot beyond that. I think it's just what I've been the most used to. And sometimes I get overwhelmed with all of the options if I do go to a library.

So a lot of the times, it would be something that a friend let me borrow or recommended or friend or family member. And sometimes I would start reading it, and I would lose [00:27:00] interest, and I know there are a lot of books that I started and never finished. And I also have struggled in my adult life.

I don't think I had this problem when I was a kid, but it's hard to remember. But in my adult life, I've struggled with losing focus when reading, even if it's something I'm into, where I just have to re read lines. And sometimes it's just if it's something that is Really beautifully written that I enjoy I'll go back and reread it I was doing that yesterday with why women grow.

There's a lot of really beautiful Sentences and paragraphs in that book, but anyways, so I Just kind of have struggled with it in my adult life because of that. I just have to be in the right mindset and Environment to be able to get into it And I have read a lot over the years, but I'm sitting here trying to think of specific books and it's really hard.

Elizabeth: I would not remember a single book that I read if I didn't have good reads. 

Martha: [00:28:00] I feel like you and Michael really went through a Chuck Palahniuk phase. 

Bekka: That's the author I was trying to think of. I just 

couldn't think of his last name. And I think I got into him from Michael and also my close friend Mattie.

And I also think that's How I got into the graphic novels I was talking about earlier was from Mattie, I want to say. But, it's funny , I would get into a lot of , music from Michael too and stuff. But, uh, yeah, I read a lot of his books. I'm thinking of Choke, but I know there were some other ones 

Mike: too.

Fight Club. 

Bekka: Fight Club, and I still have Choke. I still have a lot of the old books from my 20s and 30s. Some of them I never finish that I want to finish or re read because it's been so long since I read them that they'd be like a new book to me. But like Michael was saying, , it'll be interesting to see how I perceive it at this point in my life.

 I do tend to be a lot more visual and I tend to spend more time [00:29:00] knitting and crocheting when I have the kind of time that you would have to read, I tend to crochet and knit and put on Netflix and stuff like that while I'm doing that.

Or I get sucked into social media. , but I do want to get better. back into reading. I've just been struggling with the routine of it. More recently, I've been wanting to start doing it at night before bed and getting off of my phone. So that's a goal that I have. but It's just hard. Distractions. I do enjoy it and I do want to try audiobooks, too.

 I tend to get distracted with those as well, but I haven't given it up yet. of a chance. Yeah. I don't think. 

Martha: Yeah. Well, I think a lot of people could relate to your experience. I know there's a lot of people out there who have the same feelings that you do and Liz and I have talked about this a lot, , I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, 

You feel like you're [00:30:00] not a reader at this point, but I would say you are. , there's no right or wrong way to be a reader. And clearly we've been talking for like 40 minutes about all of our reading experiences, you know? And just because you're not reading right now doesn't mean you're not a reader.

 If you read one book a year, you're a reader. If you read graphic novels, you're a reader. There's no expectation around reading. , whatever. Calls to you is good enough, , so I just like to throw that out there. Cause Liz and I talk a lot about how guilt and shame should not be, or shoulds, like what I should be doing doesn't need to be part of your reading relationship.

Elizabeth: But it always is, the way that our society sort of positions reading in our lives. I think about my research that I did, , with college students in 2019. Gen Zers, most of them, the traditionally aged ones. , they had all the same things that we've been talking about.

 Some of them would say, Oh, I don't really read. And then they would proceed to talk to me for 30 minutes about all the books that they read. And I'm like, okay. And also they would [00:31:00] say, Oh, well, I know I should read more. I wish I read more. And they would tell me that they read like three to five hours a week while they're in college.

And I'm like, Dude, you're a reader, you're reading, you don't need to read more. And also the like, I, you know, I feel guilty when I watch tv instead of reading or I know I'm on my phone too much and I should be doing x, y, or z. We all probably should be off of our phones more, because there are actually detrimental things that happen when we're on our phones and screens too much, but.

 It causes this relationship with reading where because it feels like something you should be doing, it might not be something that you want to do as much

Bekka: I have felt like that. I have felt guilt and shame about it. From, society, like you were saying.

And I really can't remember the last time I finished a whole book. I really can't. But, I do want to do it, just for me, and I do want to spend less time on social [00:32:00] media, which a lot of that is for my business, so it's hard to detach from, but I am trying to create more balance in, hobbies that I enjoy off of the phone.

And I just remembered too, National Geographic magazines, I used to love, I had boxes and boxes of those, I would buy them from the thrift stores. , and then eventually make collages out of those with a lot of them, but I just wanted to add that because I thought of that. That was a big one that I would get into.

And now I'm realizing part of it's because of the pictures 

Martha: and 

Bekka: I just love nature and wildlife and stuff too. 

Elizabeth: Yeah. But. They just announced like a year or so ago that they're not publishing the print version of National Geographic anymore. It's so sad. I used to love those too. It's the end of an 

Bekka: era for sure.

We're lucky to have grown up with that kind of stuff before the internet. 

Elizabeth: Yeah. The other thing that I thought when you were talking, Bekka, is, , on one of the episodes, we were talking about the way that we prioritize our time, and it's just that [00:33:00] we prioritize the hobby of reading more than we prioritize other hobbies, , I knit too, but I don't prioritize knitting , when it comes to my free time, I know that I could, but I have to choose, , we all have to make choices about how we spend our free time.

So it's just funny that you brought up knitting and crocheting because it's like, we're two sides of the same coin. , we have a certain amount of free time and we all get to decide, what we do at that time. I also used to not like or used to say that I didn't like audiobooks because when I tried to read them before I would get distracted and have to rewind., But since Martha and I started talking about audiobooks and Martha was so into audiobooks she convinced me to give them another try. And I think that there's a couple of things that I realized.

One is that I think that I just didn't find audiobooks that held my attention, which is the book's fault, not my fault, quite frankly. And so when you were talking about how you don't remember the last time you finished a book, I'm like, as people who listen to this podcast will know, we're both big now advocates of not [00:34:00] finishing books that you aren't enjoying because life's too short.

So I think there's an element of finding the right type of audio book that will hold your attention. I've realized for me that it basically has to be a British narrator to hold my attention for whatever reason. , I don't know, I'm a weirdo, but , that's what it is. So when I listen to audiobooks, That are British narrators, I'm more likely to be able to pay attention and also that it's something that you practice and so the more that you do it, the more that you're able to do it.

 I do wonder if you tried listening to an audio book while you're knitting or crocheting instead of Netflix, not to say that you should do that, but if you wanted to, I do think that if you find a book that checks the boxes for you and you did it more it's almost a skill that you can grow the more that you do it, the better you get at it, paying attention and listening, , to it.

Bekka: I agree with the narrator. I think the narrator can make or break it. Yeah. I could read a book instead of listening to it on audio and enjoy it. More than, 

[00:35:00] certain narrators. 

Elizabeth: The other thing that I thought of while Bekka was talking, didn't we have a sister book club at one point? 

Martha: We read Wild by Cheryl Strayed together. 

Bekka: And Snowchild. And the Snowchild. Which I really love Snowchild, I might actually re read that.

Wild was really good too. Mm-Hmm? . Yeah, it was wild. Was great. I don't think I would reread that one, maybe. No, it's a little, it's just really intense emotional. It's heavy emotional. Yeah. Yeah. , 

Martha: , it's a great read though.

Bekka: I think it was hard for us to link up and read the same speeds and Yeah. I think we kind of just dropped it after Snowchild, which was a long time ago. It's to do long distance, I think. When was it? I think it was around 2016. 

Elizabeth: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. It was definitely pre pandemic. 

Yeah. Martha and I listen to audiobooks at very different speeds, and Martha's been waiting for me to finish this one audiobook so that we can talk about it, and I've literally been taking months to read it because I just haven't gone on walks, which is the main time that I listen to audiobooks since I've been traveling, and then I was And Martha's like, Oh my God, you're still [00:36:00] reading that book.

I can't believe it because she goes through audio books so fast. Is there anything else that any of you have thought of when it comes to reading or the dynamic of our family and being a reader that you want to share?

Mike: I was just thinking about social media as it's a double-edged sword. There's book tubers that are like, oh, these are the 72 books I read this year. Here's what I think. And I could see how that would make you, , if you only read a couple books that year, , , bring on some guilt there.

Elizabeth: Yeah. 

Martha: Mm-Hmm. , 

Elizabeth: that reminds me of something else I thought of while Bekka was talking. Is that, is something else that the students that I interviewed for my research said about, , being overwhelmed with choice.

 On the one hand, social media is good because it surfaces books in a higher volume than before we had social media. But also it can be overwhelming in the same way that going into a library or into a bookstore can sometimes be overwhelming all the choices.

And so one of the main ways that the students that I interviewed got their reading was through recommendations from friends and family. So that's a universal experience. , even [00:37:00] though we now have social media and the internet and all of those recommendation machines, people still basically prefer to get recommendations from their in person connections, which I think is interesting.

Bekka: I have, , on TikTok and Instagram saved, , a book album, for books to read and a lot of it is from friends. If it's on Instagram, a friend shared a book that they read or I might even take a screenshot from their stories because it's someone I know and that just means more to me.

I think I'd probably like it more knowing who the person is that read it. . So in that way, it's helpful. Yeah. When it's not a huge list 

Elizabeth: of books.

Bekka: Yeah. You know, I 

Elizabeth: mean, I definitely find it helpful. But like Michael said, it's a double edged sword. There definitely are pros and cons because Martha and I have also talked about how BookTok, especially a lot of them tend to talk about all the same books. And if you're not into those books, it can sort of feel like, well, okay, [00:38:00] is there anything for me to read?

And also the number of books that they read can be intimidating, like Michael was talking about. And they can burn out on it, which is a bummer. Cause in theory, you must've started this account because you loved reading and now you've turned it into your job and you have built this brand of reading a hundred books a year.

And now you're burnt out on reading. Yeah. 

Martha: I am thankful that mom introduced us all to reading. I'm glad that we all had that foundation and we have a lot of shared memories around it, which I think is great.

So thanks mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Elizabeth: Well, to build on that mom isn't here to speak for herself, so I won't. go too deep into this, but , I don't feel like mom would describe herself as a reader. She reads a lot though. She reads all the time. And she read to all of us and turned us all into readers. I think that goes back to what you were saying about this idea of , having an identity as a reader is so loaded and it doesn't need to be.

Mike: . 

I also would think [00:39:00] we should thank those teachers in our lives that, . Encouraged us to read more. And, took a special interest in us and reading. 

Elizabeth: Yeah. It's huge. The teacher that recommended those books to you.

The teacher that let me make all of my books. Yeah. Ms. Firmani. Mrs. Lawton. Mrs. Lawton. Yep. Yep. Mrs. Lawton's class. That's the first time I read Pride and Prejudice. And oh Lord, what has that spawned? Ha ha. Yeah, I love it. All right. Well, thanks. Yeah. This is interesting. Thanks 

Martha: guys. Thanks for doing this with us.

Thanks for having us 

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