Freight 360
First Year as a Freight Broker | Episode 248
Have you ever wondered what it's really like to be in your first year as a new freight broker? This week, we're interviewing a new freight broker to see what it's really like to get in the trenches and do the job!
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Have you ever wondered what it's really like to be in your first year as a new freight broker? This week, we're interviewing a new freight broker to see what it's really like to get in the trenches and do the job!
Support Our Sponsors:
QuikSkope - Get a Free Trial: Click Here
Levity: Click Here
Bluebook Services: Click Here
DAT Freight & Analytics - Get 10% off your first year!
DAT Power - Brokers & Carriers: Click Here
DAT Express - Brokers: Click Here
Truckers Edge - Carriers: Click Here
Recommended Products: Click Here
Freight Broker Basics Course: Click Here
Join Our Facebook Group: Click Here
Check out all of our content online: Click Here
Hey, good morning or good afternoon, depending on where you're at. Welcome to Freight 360. We've got a great show for you this week. It's going to be episode 248, and I'm going to be interviewing a first-year freight broker who's also a coaching client. I think it's going to be a really great show for everyone. Typically, we interview or talk to people after they've succeeded or after they've built something, built a team brokerage and we talk about their journey. I thought this would be a very good time to do an episode where we're talking to somebody. That is really where most of the audience is, right In the midst of their journey, going through it, trying to prospect, trying to add customers, making calls and learning while they're going Right. So I think it's going to be a great show for everyone out there. Nate isn't with us this week. He is actually at Army. So it's going to be Saurav and myself and we'll take it from there. Saurav, I just want to introduce you for a little bit, say a little bit about yourself and kind of what brings you?
Speaker 1:here. What brought you into freight brokerage? I mean, we'll dig into it in an episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hey, how is everybody? My name is Saurav Ben tells me there's a lot of Indian clients, so, namaste. I started as a reefer driver and got into brokerage because I just wanted to stay home now Just have a young daughter, so I thought it would be a great run and it came out to be trickier than I thought it would be, but so far it's so good cool.
Speaker 1:well, we'll dig into that in a minute. In sports I don't have much other than the memorial tournament over the weekend at Muirfield. Scotty Scheffler won again. I think they had said, like he's the, maybe this hasn't been done where somebody had won the PGA Memorial, the Masters, and I can't remember the other win that he had so far this year since Tom Watson in like 1980. So really great weekend for him. Like to see him obviously do well. He had his newborn son there for the first time to kind of greet him as he won the tournament on Sunday. So it was a nice end of the weekend and sports.
Speaker 1:I don't have much outside of that In news and I'm excited to dig into this. Apple had their big announcement earlier this week and admittedly I have never watched one beginning to end ever. I've never really had the interest in watching it in its entirety, even though I'm a pretty big Apple user. I use their products across the board. I did watch this one all the way through, mostly because it was in anticipation of their large announcement, which is with Apple Intelligence Sorav. Did you get to see any of the recaps? What did you get to watch or see any of it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saw some of the highlights. I saw the calculator one. I saw how it's going to destroy all the AI. You know Apple only releases stuff once it's mastered it, so everybody was questioning why it hasn't released any AI out. But it's really doing good. I think Mac is going to take over, like they always do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I was really excited about it. I've been following a lot of that along too, and there was a lot of speculation. I had even heard and read like a week or two ago about what it could be and what it could look like, right, and it's a pretty profound announcement for, I think, a lot of reasons that I want to talk through. One is how it's actually going to be executed, because I think a lot of the adoption and everything with some of the AI tools are where people are getting more and more used to using GPT-4.0 and some of the other models out there, whether it's Metas, which is literally in Facebook now, or using Google's. I use most of them and, to be honest, I've been using most of them and I kind of compare the results to each other and see what they are right. My big takeaway in using them since they've been out of the past year, year and a half, is, if you treat it like it's an infallible computer, meaning like you expect it to be right, in the same way that I think when you look for an answer in a calculator, you expect that it mean like a human, I mean like the information that you hear from anybody right. Like somebody tells you something like you're probably going to believe it, but like you're going to wait to read about it or hear it again before maybe you take that as fact right, or you'll cross-reference it and look at it later. If somebody tells you anything that they've read or is interesting, typically that's what we do, right, Like, hey, we'll go look somewhere else and once we learn about something a few times from different places, then we start to you know, verify that that is maybe true or that you could use that right. Same thing in journalism and anything else. You find something, you research it, you look for different sources. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they aren't and that's the process you go through.
Speaker 1:I think one of the big things for me was in using these tools, realizing that, like some of the answers, like it's just not correct, first off Right and especially early on, like the math isn't right, there's lots of errors that you can see. However, it's still a useful tool, I think, to narrow research, to get things started and to use it more and what it is good at, not necessarily what it isn't Right, and this is what I think is really going to be different about what Apple's doing. The other is the big fear of how and what's going to happen with all this data right, like all of your personal information going to some computer, sitting on some server somewhere and having no idea if and when that could get leaked or what they're doing with it or any of those things. Right and Apple's addressed both Right and first is how they structured this, meaning like it's going to live on your phone, meaning like the LLM or you know it's actually going to be. Siri is going to work like chat GPT-4.0, except that it can see and remember everything you've done locally without sharing that elsewhere. It does, however, once in a while need more computing power and the way they explained it is that it would just be basically calling on the other servers with, like, a specific question, not in the traditional way of sharing all of your information with an outside server and then bringing the answers back. Right, and I think that at the very least, sounds like it could solve some of it, as well as the transparency for auditors to be able to go in and look to see and verify.
Speaker 1:If this is true, I think that could very well make this more widely adopted faster. But who knows how people are going to act. But the thing I'm most excited about is how it's going to be able to function as like an agent, meaning it can do things and execute tasks for you, right? So if anyone out there has listened or used Siri to set a timer, siri's very good at setting a timer. Hey, set a timer for 10 minutes. Set an alarm it can do that very well.
Speaker 1:It's not very good at understanding anything else. It's not really good at understanding the nuances in speech. It makes lots of mistakes. But that specific thing of being able to do something for you is what's changing. I think in the Apple platform they're changing all their SDKs with all their apps and providing an API for other apps to be able to use this. So an example I've read is to be able to go. Instead of going into Uber or going into Uber Eats and saying, oh I got to look at what I ordered last week because I want to order the same meal for my family, for instance, you should be able to at some point pick it up and go. Hey, siri, can you please just replace the order we had last Thursday? I think it was a burger restaurant, but can you check and put that order in, it will at some point be able to then just execute that right.
Speaker 1:I don't think that and I know, and I don't think it means that like we won't still need the visual interface, because if you want to order something else, you want to see pictures of food. So I think they're addressing it in a way where I think it gives you an additional way to access these tools in a way that doesn't eliminate the way we used to. Right and the use case I see in freight brokerage. What I'm most excited about is I have notes everywhere, like all of my notes from every call or when I'm talking to somebody, like even you as a coaching client, like I put them all in OneNote. The problem is OneNote is very poor at being able to search through that to find notes from months ago, years ago or whatever. That is Same thing with email. Outlook has one of the better search features but has lots of other issues. Siri is going to be able to look across all of your information in your phone and retrieve it quicker.
Speaker 1:So a use case I'm thinking is like hey, you know you and Steven both sent me loads this morning and I've got some notes in there from our call. Or maybe my notes are in my CRM from two days ago. That like hey, make sure the next load, the temp's not 45, it's going to be 35. If my you know load tender, the guy dispatching the load doesn't remember that. Just keep that in mind. So, like somebody might tell me that and I need to remember it you sent me the load detail two days ago.
Speaker 1:I can say hey, siri, can you pull up the last email that Jimmy from ABC Produce sent and pull up my notes, anything relevant in the past two weeks. It will find that. Pull it up and literally drop it in a screen, instead of me having to look through my notes, find that date, find that sentence, find that note and then search through my email to find those things right. So for me, I think this is going to make work a lot more efficient, a lot more effective, and I'm really excited to be able to use some of these tools as they start to roll out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, AI. I feel like AI is way too powerful. I mean, right now, right now they're saying AI is like the worst they could be and it's always just going to grow. But I read somewhere that they said Elon Musk said that if Apple keep allowing AI to be a part of their products, that it will be banned from X. Because you already know, Elon Musk, I believe, said that he's against AI. You know, he just thinks it's way too powerful than humans can handle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, more specifically, right like he was a part of OpenAI and he has, and I think a lot of things he said are legitimate concerns and risks and he wants that to be more generally, discussed, more open, not just held by small companies without having any visibility of what they're doing with it, right? So, and I think there I think I don't know if it's under Tesla, but the one they're building, or Elon's building, I think, is Gronk and yeah, there's been a lot of contention between what happened with open AI, how they're working. And yeah, as Steven pointed out, he wants there to be a council that is able to govern this or in some way oversee it. And he has legitimate points like the traditional role of regulation and government can't move fast enough to keep up with the tech. By the time the bill's debated and actually would be passed into law, technology is going to be completely different than when they started that process.
Speaker 1:So, you know anxious to see how this plays out, but I think it's worth anyone out there in our industry or in any other industry keeping an eye on this, because it's going to allow you to do more in less time, and that is one of the fundamental problems or issues that we work through as a freight broker how to get more done in the same amount of hours or a little bit more hours without missing the other things.
Speaker 1:So, again, to tie that all in, that's what I'm most excited about and I'm really most excited about to be actually using it in this industry as this starts to roll out. Um, but I think that's a good segue. Let's um dig right into the interview and talk a little bit about your journey, and I want to start at the kind of the very beginning. I know you alluded to what you had done and why you decided to get in the industry, but, um, just kind of share with us, from your point of view, a little bit what you were doing before, what were some of the conversations you were having, maybe with family or yourself before you jumped in, and what you were expecting it to look like when you did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so before I was doing this, I mean, I was going to college to have my bachelor's in kinesiology and I was going to go that route. But I'm from Bakersfield, california, and trucking and logistics is huge out here and I just thought let me get my foot in the door. So then I got into trucking, so I started Reefer and I was going from California to Pennsylvania, new Jersey, maryland, out to the East Coast, northwest area and just doing that for two years I was like you know, I just wanted to use my education, I guess, or whatever it was into like computer and just like and I'm always an extrovert, I love talking to people and I just thought, like being in trucking, you're very introverted, you have nobody to talk to, you're very lonely and it's not the easiest job, you know. No job is easy though, but yeah, yeah, so no job is easy.
Speaker 2:And then I I watched freight 360 like constantly, every single day, morning till night, watched all your videos, and I was like man, this is something that really fits me or something that I'm interested in. And as I kept watching, kept watching, I was like I think I'm just going to put my foot in the door and just stick to this and plus, I knew it was a great opportunity to be closer to my daughter, closer to my family, at the same time as well. Yeah, so I got in. I contacted you, ben, you and Nate.
Speaker 1:And it, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I got in, I contacted you, ben, you and Nate, and it was, yeah, from there just head on and didn't look back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think there was a few things that I noticed when we first talked and we decided whether or not we were going to work together, planned through this in a way that I don't think everybody does, right, and I wanted to talk a little bit about that meaning like you can share this if you're comfortable.
Speaker 1:But the point I want the audience to understand is you were making really good money before you made the decision to jump, but you also had prepared and saved money for a time for you to be able to jump out of that job, to take on this job right, and to have some of that runway moving forward, which is, I think, really important in planning to take on any new venture, especially a new business, because you're going to start something new, especially to go off on your own, whether it's a build your own business, whether it's a book or a whole company, you need to be able to still pay your bills and when you've got a kid, that's not. It's easier said than done, right? So do you want to share a little bit about some of the planning or thoughts that went into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I saved a lot while I was trucking and it was one of the scariest things, uh, moving careers, um, but I knew it was for the better. I really knew it was for the better and I knew there was going to be. I didn't think it was going to be this much struggle, but I knew there was going to be a struggle. Of course, building a book, like you say, building a business or anything, it's not for the lighthearted. Um, and hearing from the videos, you know, watching you guys, I knew that it was going to be tough from the jump. Yeah, I saved up enough money to be not comfortable but comfortable enough to take the risk, you know, and it really helped. It helped me in the long run. And then you know, having a supportive family as well you know my wife, and now she's, and then she works as well.
Speaker 1:And having her as well plus our savings is just. It was less of a headache. You know she's and then she works as well, and having her as well plus our savings is just. It was less of a headache, I guess, or less of a stress yeah, it was doable, but still at the same time very stressful can endure anyhow, meaning if you are confident and clear on why you want to achieve whatever that is, the hard things that you will inevitably face right, they don't seem as hard because you keep your eye on where you're going and you know why it's important to get there. So climbing over that mountain hill, whatever that is, is a lot different than I think when people do it without thinking that through, and I think the other side of that coin are when individuals and Nate and I talk about this, a lot is like asking yourself why you're doing something, because you can be doing it for the wrong reason and your chances of succeeding when you do it for the wrong reasons are very, very low. It doesn't mean you won't, it's just far harder, right, and I think that is when people decide they want to jump into brokerage because they think they can make hundreds of thousands of dollars, work part time and the jobs easier than the job they had, Right? No, and that's almost never the case.
Speaker 1:Right, in any business, whether you're starting a bakery, a freight brokerage or whatever, or landscaping company like the, the reason why you were doing it to you know, just repeat what you said was better quality of life, better time with your family, better work-life balance in regards to where and what you're doing on a given day, more predictability. Eventually, more stable and probably larger income potential. Right, and also the ability to interact with human beings all day, because you're an extrovert and you enjoy doing that, and I mean those are all very, very good reasons to make that jump Right. Yes, and that's what I want to segue into is, like, these are the expectations. This is why you wanted to make this jump right now. Let's jump into it, right? So, like you started to share with us, share with everybody about when in the past year you started and what it was like after you jumped in in regards to what you expected and what it was like, oh yeah, I started around November, december time, and I was like man, anybody could do this.
Speaker 2:Man, it's like a walk in the park. Yeah, I found out real quick. This is not easy Customers. I mean you got to think about it. Customers get thousands of emails a day, thousands of calls a day. What separates you from anybody else, right? So I thought from the jump, like you know, anybody could do this. It's an easy gig. It can't be that hard, just like anybody else being ignorant in any other job starting field. Right, they think they know it all. The person who knows nothing thinks they know it all. And yeah, just walking in, thought it was all easy.
Speaker 2:And then you learn the hard way. You learn that you actually need communication skills, you need sales skills, you need to be a people's person, you need to catch on little habits of people. You need to know if they tell you something, listen, pay attention. Like you know Ben's famous phrase God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason you know listen twice as much. You know, yeah, it was. I started in 23, in November, december 23, as Stephen was asking, and I think at the time I think everything was dead. Reefer's down in the wintertime. You know I'm in California, so it was. I believe it was a tough time to get in, but I think as slowly now it's progressing, now it's getting better, customers are coming in, building better relationships. Yeah, it was just not as easy as it seems. So if anybody's looking into it, please don't think it's easy.
Speaker 1:And let's pick it up from there. Yeah, so you're making calls. I was looking at our coaching notes from back then, right, and November and December, right. So take us back and I want you to think back to right, like back in December, right, you're sitting there, you, I, you had your day outlined in regards to what it looked like. I'm going to literally read from our notes what you had told me your day was December 4th, right.
Speaker 1:Start work at 7am, right. Then you're going to be entering leads from 7 to 8. You're going to be dialing from 8 to 11, lunch from 11 to 12, dialing 12 to 3 with your daughter, somewhere between three and four, four and five, and then you're going to hop back on the phone to make calls between five and eight, right. So I mean like that's a 12 hour day minus the two or two and a half hour window in the middle, which brings you roughly to like nine and a half hours in a day, right, nine to 10 hours, right. Take us back to what it was like and what your phone calls. If you remember some of them were like, maybe some of the objections, maybe some specific examples.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would talk to customers again, not knowing any sales skills, right, not knowing how to talk to customers, it's not like the biggest thing that I think my problem was. I used to speak to them like a salesperson, you know. Talk to them like a friend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how did you talk to them like a salesperson, you know um talk to them like a friend. Yeah, I'll be like how did you talk to them like a salesperson? Do you remember what you used to say?
Speaker 2:hey, johnny, at abc, this is sra, with boom, boom, boom. Um, how's your day, how's everything going? Is life good? You know, I'm over here, I got 12 trucks in the area and uh, you know, we just love to work with you and uh, right off the bat, they're annoyed because the tone of your voice, the little high pitch voice, and they know one, they know you're, you're lying, you know. And then, um, I would, I would always go to the sales version of what you hear, what you see all the time, just that high pitch noise, salesperson vibe and just right. And if they know you're a salesperson, you're not authentic, they're gonna just hang up on you right away. And that's exactly what I think they're like. Oh, we're fob, we're customer routed, we don't need a broker, we're not adding brokers at this time. Um, man, what else did I hear? Uh, hang up on you. Um, I'm trying to think of just some horrible ones. Man, uh, yeah, uh, customer routed. Um, fob, hang up on you, we're not adding on brokers.
Speaker 1:Uh, call me in three months, call me in six months or we'll call you back when we need someone call you in right and they're not calling you when they need you you can aggressively wait for the phone to ring from there right like oh, they're gonna call. I know they're gonna call back and you're just sitting there staring at the phone all day, right, but it just never rings.
Speaker 2:No, and I probably had that going on. I'll probably do like 80 calls a day and probably hear that probably 60 times, or they want to even pick up. That's another thing. They'll be like oh, we're in a meeting, please call me back. I'm in a meeting no-transcript.
Speaker 1:How long do you think you had to keep getting on that bike and falling off before you started to pick up on the your own nuances and how you were saying what you were saying?
Speaker 2:Probably two to three months I'd say Probably longer than expected Just because I'm not having any knowledge in a sales thing and then thinking that you're doing good when you're really not against the ignorance is a bliss. And yeah, just thinking I was doing that. And then, as soon as I started catching myself I believe it was one customer I called just because I was just sick of it, honestly, being dead on. So I was just sick of this whole brokering thing and I was like, hey, what's up, man, how are you doing? And just talk to him like a human, like as a friend, as like one of my friends that I meet at school or at the bar or just anywhere. Hey, how are you man? Yeah, my name is Sarad. I wouldn't even introduce myself from the company, I would just say my name. Hey, it's Sarat, man, how are you? How was your weekend? And then great conversation just started moving forward and from there it just slowly progressed and I noticed like when I don't introduce myself as a salesperson is when I started seeing progression.
Speaker 1:Right, and here's what I want to point out. Right, there's two things about this, right, and the thing the first thing I want to point out is, like, from a coaching perspective. Right, and the thing the first thing I want to point out is, like, from a coaching perspective, right, I was able to shadow you, listen to you, make calls and I was able to give you some of this feedback as this process is happening. However, right, it's one of these scenarios where, like, if you just give someone the answer without them feeling the pain, the lesson one usually isn't learned as fast and, two, it doesn't stick with you and make you want to change. And that's true in almost anything you got to teach. Hell, our daughters are about the same age. If I'm teaching my daughter, who just turned five, something, right, like, you have to kind of let them get frustrated and how they're doing it their own way as you're trying to encourage and guide them, because just giving them and telling them how and what to say, and specifically how to say it right, is just kind of an example. But the person whoever that is, whether it's your child, a client or even a coworker when we're working on something, hell, even the managers I've had right where we work together. It's like you need them to feel that frustration and want to overcome it, which goes back to the why and why you were so driven to want to succeed in this industry. Without the drive to want to do it and without feeling that you should be getting through this and can't. That's what makes you want to change. That's fundamental in actually improving anything you do, whether it's shooting a basketball or riding a bike or learning to make sales calls. And as you were doing this right, like I could hear and see your improvement day by day, week by week.
Speaker 1:From your point of view, though, even rehashing, it's like you felt like you were there for three months, but I can tell you from the outside like you were making progress every day and picking up these little things and progressing, but between where you wanted to be and where you started, I think it's a really good window, because mine was the same.
Speaker 1:Like it took me every bit of two months in this industry to pick up on a lot of those nuances that I was hearing, and I made tens of thousands of sales calls for a decade before I got into transportation, but they were different sales, different objections, different voice postures in the way people say what they say, your clients, how they are discussing what they need, their sense of urgency when they're not urgent All these little things that we don't really think about.
Speaker 1:You're picking up, whether you realize it or not, through the practice. And again, even somebody that's got great sales chops in another industry, you still have to practice and get frustrated before you get better in the new industry. Right, and I think that's one of the reasons why I really wanted you on here was to talk through this, because seeing your progression and you being able to share what it was like from your point of view, I think gives people a window into where they can be and also probably a mirror to see where they probably are and what they need to work on. And I think what I'd like to ask you is what would you share information to the audience or what would you tell yourself if you could sit next to yourself beginning of December? Is there anything that you could have done that would have made that faster, or do you really feel like you kind of had to go through the process regardless to get to where you are?
Speaker 2:I'd have to say that's a great question. Actually, I'd have to say both. If I can, I'd say, be more authentic. That's one thing I'd say. Second, I feel like you have to go through the pain to know. You know what I'm saying. Hard work beats talent. When talent doesn't work, hard, right, I feel like you have to go through the struggle to know as well.
Speaker 2:But if I had to go back and look at myself and just tell myself man, stop being fake, honestly, stop with the whole sales pitch, stop with the whole acting like you have like 30 trucks right there when you really don't, and stop acting like you know it, 30 trucks right there and when you really don't, and stop acting like you know it all. Because at that point, when you're first coming into sales, you want your first sale. You're gonna act like you're the best at this, right, and then, but I've noticed the best salesman I mean talking to you, ben, and then watching videos or anything. Um, being yourself talking like a friend is the best way to go, because these people are at their work. They're already annoyed. They don't want to be at work. You know what I'm saying, and the last thing they want is somebody annoying them or soliciting to them and just constantly calling them and annoying them.
Speaker 2:Um, stefan asked me a great question. He's like was it like a light bulb moment or over multiple calls? I think it was actually? Um, both I had a. I was calling a customer and speaking to him and he was like, uh, and I talked to him normally, like we're doing right now. I was like, hey, man, how was your weekend? Just like, actually, before I go.
Speaker 2:Ben actually taught me that. To be real, don't actually, uh, talk like a salesperson. Be honest with him, just be just like you're at a bar, at a game or just anywhere. Just speak to them like you're meeting them, like a friend. You're meeting a bar, at a game or just anywhere. Just speak to them Like you're meeting them, like a friend you're meeting at Walmart, just randomly, just talk to them. And Ben actually taught me that. And then I called him, did the exact same thing Slow tone, talk to him like, actually thought about what I'm saying to him, caught on what he was saying about himself, his little nuances, his habits, what he was like hey, just be authentic and you'll go very far in this business. Just do not have a self-spitch voice. So it was two things that really helped me grow, I guess, in a way to say.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a really good summary. Right, and there's a principle in psychology and education that and we do this. It really highlights it because I see it in parenting a lot we tell kids not to do things right, but from a kid's perspective or a student's perspective, it's very hard not to do something, but it's much easier to do something. Meaning like telling somebody they should avoid something as a negative doesn't help them learn what they should do, and I love that you wrapped up that with a second point of it's the positive what are the things you can do? It's hard to tell somebody, hey, stop being inauthentic, right. Because like they don't realize they're not being authentic themselves, so it's hard for them to stop the thing they're not realizing. However, if you give somebody an example of how they are authentic in their normal day-to-day life and they do that without thinking and you get them to go into that mindset before they make the call, it's easier for them to do the thing right.
Speaker 1:Just be authentic and act like you said. Like you're talking to a buddy you ran into from high school at Walmart whatever right the drugstore, the grocery store, like you're just going to start talking in a way that doesn't sound the same as when you pick up a phone and you're nervous, Right, and that I still do that to this day, Like when I am going to prospect, like I literally take a beat, maybe like 30 seconds, Like it doesn't take long. I practice it a lot, but it basically literally picture myself in a setting with my friends. Maybe it's at a golf course, Maybe it's like a vacation trip or just something that is very clear in my head, where I'm around my friends and comfortable, and it literally helps shift my mindset into what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Like talk to them like they're your friends, right? Like talk to them the way you would talk to anybody else if you saw them in person, right, which is very odd for somebody that just starts picking up the phone calling people they've never met and never seen, right, it feels foreign. But if you can get yourself into the mindset of like you're just talking to some people and you're just making some friends or not, and you're just introducing people yourself to people all day, the stress comes down and the authenticity I think comes up and it makes it easier to execute. I mean, is that something that you've seen? What are some of the things that you could share that could help people do more of what you've learned.
Speaker 2:Yes, I 100% agree with that, ben.
Speaker 2:Also, when you're just calm, trying to talk to them as a friend, even if they reject you, even if they say we're customer routed, we're FOB, we're not adding on brokers, you're so much more calm about it, you're not defensive about it, you're like, oh, okay, well, is your inbound customer routed? Um, yeah, man, that is too okay. Well, you know, I'll try again. When's when are you comfortable for me to try, you know? Um, and then they could tell, okay, this guy's maybe vetted, he's not new, because somebody new would just try to find a thousand ways to go around it right, and just keep annoying them and bugging them and bugging them. And then I feel like when you're normal with them not normal but just authentic or talking like as a friend they'll kind of be more open to giving you business. They'll be like, okay, this guy's not really hassling me, he's not really, you know, harassing, or just like bothering me, keep calling every day, every two days or whatever. You know, maybe I could try it with him, maybe give him a chance.
Speaker 1:That's what I've seen and I think also a lot of that comes from the pressure we can all put on ourselves in certain scenarios. Right, in bigger brokerage it's very common when you've got a metric and a manager that's telling you if you don't do a certain amount of loads or a certain amount of profit, you lose your job. That self that pressure from the outside, as well as what the person puts on themselves for fear of losing their job they tend to sound very inauthentic and do exactly what you're trying to avoid and what you said, meaning like they will aggressively argue those objections oh, you're FOB. What do you mean? All of it, all your freight, can't be FOB. What are some of the loads you guys tend to do? They will literally argue Right, and it always reminds me of like yeah, you might win that specific argument, but you lose the war.
Speaker 1:Meaning like even if I prove you wrong objectively, first off, I'm probably never still changing your mind and second of all, am I bringing you and me closer together or farther apart? Right, like, and at the end of the day, what's the objection? Right, what is the goal?
Speaker 2:yeah, sorry to cut you off, ben, but this is a funny story. Um, I actually called this company in our hometown, bakersfield, and I was like hey, man, you know, we're trying to work together. My name is sarab, we're trying to work together, this is that. And he was like hey, if you're like TQL, just just hang up the phone. Man, he's like. He's like. I had to call TQL themselves and tell them this guy works for you. Please tell them, stop calling us, cause I'll tell him, call me in a month, but he'll call me every day and I had to tell him so many times. So I specifically had to call them and tell them. And that really put in perspective like you won the argument, like you were saying, but you lost the war. So you have to really listen to what the customer says. You really have to listen to the customer If it says call me next week, 10 am sharp, please call him next week, 10 am sharp.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's a good point, and I think it's a good segue, right? So that kind of covers your first few months, getting your feet wet, getting used to it, finding your voice and finding your approach. Right Now I want to talk about the period after that, right, so call it like February through March, which I mean I want you to share in your own words, right? Was that a high point? Was that a low point in your journey up until this point? Where would you say you felt for a few months after this?
Speaker 2:It was both. It was a high point and low point, because one we got the bid I was into the bid with. Are we allowed to say the company names.
Speaker 1:No, you don't need to share the company name, but it was a very large company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a huge yeah, it was a very large company. We got in the bid. I was through the roof. I thought I made it in life, everything right, because I don't know about bids. And I remember calling Ben. I was like man, we got this man, we're going to do all these loads, boom, boom, boom and yeah. Then, yeah, I didn't win the bid and I was.
Speaker 2:I remember being down for so long because I didn't experience anything like that long, because I didn't experience anything like that. And after that I think that was a big ego kill for me as well in this business, because once that killed my ego, I was like, okay, now you got to just put your nose down, work harder and then just keep it moving. Don't fall into the fast happiness or the fast thinking that you made it real quick just because of a bid, because bids aren't promised promised first of all, and um, it was a low as well, because everybody would just hit me with the same thing. Your customer routed we don't want to have brokers and I feel like I was going through that period for so long, maybe like a month straight, and then, as as at the point when I was like man, maybe this isn't for me, that's when I started getting customers.
Speaker 2:Then a customer was like okay, like here's three loads this week. Okay, here's two loads this week here's. And then I added on another customer and then added on another customer which will, and they were giving me their hard loads because that's what every customer does in the beginning to test you out. They're going to give you the last second loads. We need to cover it in two hours, three hours, you know, and sometimes I couldn't cover them, being honest with you, and yeah, you just got to go through that pain. But it was a high moment because I was finally getting customers, getting loads, but it was a low as well because we lost bids and sometimes I couldn't cover those loads.
Speaker 1:For sure, right, and I think that's part of what is kind of like the rollercoaster, right. It's the risk, but it's also the reward and you get a lot of it, and to me, like that's kind of what keeps the industry exciting and what I like about the job. But it is still emotionally difficult for me, too, when I feel like we've got a really good shot at getting significant business and you don't get awarded anything or one or zero right. It for sure can be trying and make that emotional ride more exhausting, can be trying and make that emotional ride more exhausting.
Speaker 1:Now, the thing I want to segue into was, like you touched on a moment ago. You were talking about follow-ups, right, and I want us to talk about how and what you did in your approach to following up then early on call it December, january and then what we discussed and what we were working on to how and what you do with your prospects when you get them closer to the finish line, right, in regards to follow-ups, and I want you to talk through that lesson from your point of view and how that changed your ability to start actually closing more of these customers, right. What was it like to start there and tell us what it is like now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so in the beginning I would first begin by calling every single customer every three days, whether they say no to me, whether they say yes to me, whether they say call me back in three months, whether they say call me back in three days. I will call every single one every three days. And then I started calling every single one every week. Let's say they're a hot deal, they're ready to work. I'll still call them after a week or two, which made no sense because I'm just losing business, even though they were willing to work and I did that with everyone.
Speaker 1:I want you to explain that, right. So, if you're calling a prospect and I want you to be very specific about what are the characteristics of this prospect for you in this situation, right, they said what to you and what led you to believe that they're hot, like they are an interested prospect or very close to getting business?
Speaker 2:from Because they'll be like, okay, yeah, we're ready to work, we should be having our loads on Thursday. Call us back on Wednesday so we can, you know, talk about, get your quotes, see how you operate. Just send us your information, call us on Wednesday and let's say it's a Monday and I'll call them next Wednesday or next Monday, because that's what I had it as. And then I messaged them back and they're like, oh, no, man, like you missed your chance. That's what they'll say. Or but me not knowing this, it's. That's why I'm saying, when the customer says something, please listen to all the people trying to learn.
Speaker 2:That was a big thing for me. So, yeah, that's one thing I do Now follow-ups and a different deal after Ben and I went through it. It's a hot deal and they're ready to work with you, ready to give you loads, ready to asking you for quotes or anything. Follow up with them every day or every other day, put your name in front of them, make them know that you're there, you care, you're really wanting to work, you're eager to work with them, build a strong partnership or a relationship with them, and you could catch a vibe if they're telling you hey, not now, call them in two weeks, call them in a month. Or if they're saying we're not adding brokers, call them in two months. But anyone, that's a hot lead to say giving you quotes, giving you loads, giving you time, actually giving you their time. Call them every other day. Just be in front of their face, type in a way, be in their ear.
Speaker 1:Yep. So, and the analogy I use I just did a video on this too basically from our coaching work, and I'm like this is a really good way to summarize this, I think, for everybody Right, and it's that transition between how and when you follow up with a new prospect and how and when you follow up with a hot prospect. Right, and when you've got prospects you have no relationship or rapport with right. You follow up with regular, like every seven to 10 days. Right, like you call them every day, like you're not, even if you're pleasant, it's not pleasantly persistent, it's irritating.
Speaker 1:But once you've got a connection, you spoke to them, they've opened up, they've shared in an honest and genuine way with you. You feel like you've got a little bit of a connection. Then they start sending you some loads to quote or onboard you and say, hey, start reaching out, I want to be able to get you in our rotation. They're showing genuine interest in working with you. Now it's a hot lead, right, like that's where it moves from. You know, just a prospect to a hot lead. And the thing is, where do our opportunities come from? Like, where? I'm going to ask you this where do our opportunities come from as a freight broker, so you're talking to them what needs to happen on their side of things for you to usually get your first load or two on their side of things for you to usually get your first load or two.
Speaker 2:Another broker has to mess up, somebody has to mess up, or they are losing a truck. They lost a truck, they lost a shipment. They need help right away, and it's usually on the tough moments where they will give you your chance.
Speaker 1:So this is important, right, because this to me really helps exemplify that, like hard work, when it meets opportunity, it looks like luck, but both are true, meaning you can't really create the shipper's need to use you. You can get them to trust you, you can get them to believe that you can help them when that need comes up, but we can't control the market. We can't control the trucks they choose when we're not there and we can't control the market. We can't control the trucks they choose when we're not there and we can't control anything they do. We can influence it, but we can't control it. Meaning like in the basketball analogy because you used to play basketball and still do. We use that a lot in coaching.
Speaker 1:It's like if I am playing basketball and I'm under the hoop, if the guy shoots it and makes it, me being under the hoop didn't help or hurt anything, I was just standing there. But if the guy shooting it misses it and I'm under the hoop, I position myself in a way with hard work to fight, to get under the hoop, to box everyone out that when the opportunity does come, I am literally right there to grab it and put it right back in right. That's where the hard work meets the opportunity and it seems like luck. You put the hard work in to build the trust and rapport with a lot of prospects. Now it's up to honestly chance the market and something else and somebody else's actions that create the opportunity and you need to be right there when that happens. And the instance is like if you're calling them every week or two weeks, they're having problems probably every other day or every day or every couple of days. So if you are out of sight and out of mind and are following up every two weeks and they had a handful of problems they needed your help They've only talked to you a couple of times, even if they trust you.
Speaker 1:When they are talking to you they're busy. They're not thinking about the person they talked to three times. When things get frantic, a truck doesn't show up, their boss or their customer is screaming at them they need that solved they're not going. Hey, you know what? Let me take a beat and see if anybody I talked to in the past couple of weeks might be able to help with this. They're frantically calling their other brokers, doing whatever they can to solve it and never thinking about you, but you by being able to follow up more frequently are positioning yourself under the basketball hoop so that when somebody else makes an error or an error happens, you're there to capitalize on it. Right, and that to me, when I look back at your records right, you had a dozen or so prospects that were almost, but I mean right now. How many of those do you think have become either customers or very close to customers because you've executed this change in strategy between follow-ups?
Speaker 2:I have right now, I think, 11 customers that are sending me loads as we speak, which is a blessing.
Speaker 1:And I want to point out it's huge right, because right now I know there are people out there and we talk to them all the time that are having a lot of difficulty getting shippers to work with them, getting them to trust them enough to even give them a shot at quoting loads, let alone working with them right and in this market right now. You started when? When did you start this industry?
Speaker 2:November time, end of November.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so call it December 1, right? So December, january, february, march, april, may we're about a week into June, so we'll call that six months, right, how? Many months did it take you from starting and never working in sales or this industry until you started to get bids. Do you remember when your first big bid was the one you just referenced earlier?
Speaker 1:I think it was May, it was early January. Your first large bid came in. Yes Came right in after the holidays. You got one or two large bids after doing this for four weeks and you admittedly said you didn't sound genuine, didn't feel like you were doing anywhere near as good a job as you are now. And you got and one of them was a very large company like fortune 100 company and you were getting bids then and now, five months into it, you have 11 customers right. Anything that you feel is worth sharing with anyone else out there that is struggling in the same period of building their book of business or their company that you think would be helpful.
Speaker 2:Man, I'm nothing, bro. I would say have a good coach, be a good student. I feel like that's a big thing. A teacher can't teach if a student doesn't want to learn. I'd say follow-ups. The money's in the follow-ups. Like Ben always says, the money is in the follow-ups. Don't expect your first call to give you a cost, like to give you loads. If you don't follow up, they're not going to remember. You Know what the catch-on nuance is and build a friendship. Okay, relationships matter more than transactions in this business. That's one thing I've noticed. If you love sports, bring in a sport topic real quick and see what they react to and let's see if they have some knowledge about it. Do that as well. Um, I think, uh, I'm trying to think. I think it's really just relationships and follow ups. That's what I'd say the biggest thing is in this industry, or what I've learned so far. And then act as a friend, not as a salesperson. Be somebody they can trust and not somebody who's there for a quick hundred, 200, $300.
Speaker 1:For sure Right, be authentic, be genuine, care about how and who you're talking to and care enough to listen about not just what they said, but what they meant and how they said it right Is going to tell you a lot about whether or not you're making progress to your point and establishing a relationship with this person. Everything else will not come If you don't get that right. If you can't talk and get somebody to connect with you and be your authentic self. It makes this far more difficult and that's why one of the reasons why, when we started coaching and why I do this with anybody I'm working with or even higher, is like I care about what they're interested in and what they did before we ever talk about what to use in a sales call. And the reason is because if I tell you what's interesting to me and you try to use that, is it going to be authentic or bullshit, like it's not going to sound authentic from you, right? It's authentic to me because it's true to me. So why we start talking about that early on in coaching is to get you to tie yourself into what you are authentically caring about, like for you, music, right?
Speaker 1:Sports, this industry, like your family, when you're able to connect and realize what's important to you, you can connect with other people faster and also you're better at picking up on what they care about. So if it's sports, go with sports, like you said. But it doesn't have to be it's literally anything you're interested in. You will be more authentic when you talk about those things. And in shipping you could go at anything. I don't care if your hobby is basket weaving or playing roller hockey Some company ships those things and in shipping you can go at anything. I don't care if your hobby is basket weaving or playing roller hockey Some company ships those products. That's a great place to start, because you're likely to be more authentic talking about it, right?
Speaker 2:Exactly what you said Weaving or knitting. I don't know if you remember this, ben, but one of our customers I randomly brought up that my mom knits and she does like weaving and all this, and she went ecstatic about it. She was a huge fan of it and it went from never responding to me in emails to sending me paragraph threads of yeah, tell your mom to do this, do this, do this, try this trick, try this trick. And to a point where I'm not even responding, like it was just threads on threads, on threads of just telling. Is she telling me what my mom should do when she knits and like little ideas and tricks and that's greatly said. Yeah, find out what they love. Or another thing is yeah, I was talking to a customer in Bakersfield as well and I was telling them you know, my daughter's about to graduate from preschool. I'm going to be leaving early today. Another great relationship right there. Hey, my son's graduating as well from preschool. Where are you guys go? What do you guys do? Boom, boom, boom. Build another great relationship.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and those are great examples, right For people that are out there say like it's difficult to do this, right, I think again, my take is it's difficult if you force it and fake it. It's natural. If you're honest with yourself and you just let yourself talk in the flow, you would right, which is easier said than done and it takes practice, like you've pointed out. But the more you do this every day I mean, do you feel like it takes effort now to be authentic and to connect, or do you feel like it just kind of comes when you sit down and do this?
Speaker 2:No, in the beginning I thought it was so hard to calling. Being honest with you, ben, I was like, oh, I got to call, do this, do this. And now it's like I wake up and I'm like, I'm ready to call. That's how honestly I feel like, and like talking to them. I feel like I talk to them so much now, every week, every three days or so, I just I genuinely ask them how's it's actually? You care, it's like a friend now.
Speaker 2:So it's like hey, man, how's everything going? No, okay, no, yeah, no worries, I'll call you back in a week, you know, I'll call you back in like three days or when. When do you like? One biggest thing that I've I've picked up is I'll ask them when do you want me to call you? When you're comfortable, like, you want me to call you back in, like, which is strange. I don't want to put a percentage on this, but they'll be like you know what? We're gonna have loads moving and thursday next week, you know what. Call me on tuesday and it's like right so why do you think that works?
Speaker 1:keep going with that, because it's, uh, it's good.
Speaker 2:It's because you're, it's because you're putting them on the spot of telling you hey, get get away or build this relationship. To me personally, and I feel like they actually see the genuinity. I guess is, if that's a word, how genuine you are. You're not just a salesperson, is just trying to be here all the time. If you want to get rid of me, get rid of me, but if you want me to stay here and help you out, please let me know and I'm here to help you.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent Right. And I would say, I think, more specifically, why that worked was you cared enough about what was going on in that person's life to ask them when it would work for them for you guys to connect again. It wasn't that you said, hey, what works for you? And you use the old sales technique Monday morning at 10 or Thursday at two, right, and making them choose like that is inauthentic and that's why it's not as effective. But when you genuinely care about like, hey, I'd love to connect with you again, stephen, I mean when you guys have some time or when's a slower time during the week for me to give you a buzz back, or what works for you, however you phrase it, it doesn't matter. What matters is I cared enough to ask and it's important to me what he says, that he's going to more likely be authentic, right, and I did another video on this to really break down why that works.
Speaker 1:But it's called looping. But it's basically when we are authentic as a human being in any scenario, we're also being vulnerable. If I tell you a joke authentically, I'm vulnerable, because if you don't laugh, I might feel uncomfortable. Like that is vulnerability. If I ask you a question and you take it the wrong way or get offended like I'm vulnerable when I'm authentic because I'm sharing openness to you in a way that I could be exposed in some way.
Speaker 1:And the other people and this is ingrained into just human nature people pick up on that whether they know it or not, and it other people and this is ingrained into just human nature people pick up on that whether they know it or not, and it makes them be authentic back. It reciprocates and that's why it's called looping, so, like when you're more authentic, it cues the other person to be more authentic, which leads after one or two sentences into a genuine conversation where you both are actually being honest and open. Right, because without that and you try to fake that it's felt, even though the words might be the same, and it pushes the other person farther away, not bring them closer to wanting to actually connect with you over a conversation, right.
Speaker 2:And your tone of voice is a big deal. I mean, you know, if your tone is like man when you want me to call you back right now, in a week, you know if you're just rude, then they're going to catch on to that. Because I've seen yeah, I watched some videos on YouTube and people are just like flat out aggressive. And I feel like in some, I guess in some industries, aggressiveness is very good. But I feel like in or in some instances aggressiveness is good right. As closer you get, the more aggressive you get. But I feel like in the beginning you should not be aggressive. Make them as comfortable as possible with you and then, as it becomes a hot lead, I guess, as it moves closer, try to be a little more aggressive.
Speaker 1:And I think that's good. And again, I would just change this a little bit. And I think what you said is accurate. But just for the listeners, right, like the way I perceive that transition over time, right, is you and I connect, then you and I are on the same team. So when I'm getting aggressive, it's on your behalf, not towards you. Right? You and I have connected, we're friends.
Speaker 1:You're the shipper. You got a load that needs picked up in two hours and nobody can help you. You and I. I visually picture in my head of we're sitting across the table. I'm literally sliding around to, sitting next to you on the side of the table and I'm going. Now we're going to go work on this. I'm going to go get you this truck, this load, help you solve this problem. So it's the direction of the aggression to, or the energy is hey, you trust me, I trust you, I'm going to go to war for you to solve this problem, to help you with the thing you need help with, right, and whether I win or I lose doesn't always matter. Just like you've learned right, like you cannot get that load, not actually solve the problem sometimes and not even get the truck. But if you follow up and you ask them a day or two later how that load went. How does your report Does up and you ask them a day or two later how that load went. How does your report? Does it increase or does it decrease? Does?
Speaker 2:it bring you closer or farther away. It increases because there's been multiple, multiple customers actually, where I haven't been able to cover any of their trucks that they've been sending me, um, any of the loads sorry that they've been sending me, and then still every week they're sending me loads, just because I follow up with them. Hey, is everything so? How did it? Did it get there on time? Um, was everything? Was everything good? Oh, yeah, everything was good. We'll send you like three, four more loads this week, you know, and then they'll they'll really send it over, just because they know that you follow up or you actually care.
Speaker 1:Don't tell me, show me right. And the best way to show them is through your actions, your behavior, your follow-up and your conversations right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and not just telling them you will. And another thing. Sorry, ben, not trying to cut you off, brother, but one thing that Ben always told me is, when speaking to a customer, try to sit in their seat and know their environment. Try to picture in your head their environment when you're talking to them, see how's it going and just try like where you're sitting, envision you're sitting with them in their area and their cubicle and their whatever in their department and then try to move off that. So that's another big thing.
Speaker 1:And it's a great point, right Cause that's all you're trying to actually understand. Through any of the questions you ask a prospect. It's like, really all like. I thought about this one and I'm like what would I really just want to ask? If I could just ask any question to give me the answer, right, what I would really want to do is just like you said, show up at their office, sit next to them all day and go hey, where are your loads coming in? Who sends you the loads before they get to your desk? Where do they come from? How long do you have? Who gets angry when these loads aren't booked? What happens if the truck doesn't deliver?
Speaker 1:Right, it's really just trying to understand what it would be like to have and do their job all day, because the better you understand what they do all day, the better you are informed to actually help them solve problems. And when you get really good at it, you help them prevent problems before they've even occurred or solve problems that they might not have been aware of, because you've got a different perspective than they do. They're looking at their task, what they've got to get done within their own, whatever it is bonuses, variables. Boss needs this done. Whatever their rules are around doing their job. When you understand them, you can bring that outside perspective as a freight broker to provide other options, maybe things they haven't thought of, maybe to get and solve a problem that hasn't even occurred yet.
Speaker 1:Right, like, we talked about even finding trucks before the problem happens. Right, we talked about this like a week or two ago. Do you remember that specific case we were talking about Like and just briefly like, what was it that you were working through and what changed after? We kind of talked about that through and what changed after.
Speaker 2:We kind of talked about that. I think it's building. So I think finding trucks is what's tough for me. I feel like I, you know, come in the area where there's a lot of trucks as well, but it's tough finding trucks if they're not giving good rates. You know what I'm saying, because trucks are always going to want more. But there is. There is a real thing. As I don't know how they say bad customers, poor customers, or what they say is our cheap, as I don't know how they say it bad customers, poor customers or what they say, or cheap customers I don't know what they say, but you can't expect a truck. Let's say the market rate is $6,000 for that, but they want to load booked for $4,800. It's not going to happen. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, they do that on purpose. They know for a fact that it's impossible to cover, but they do that on purpose. Um, yeah, I mean being in trucks as well.
Speaker 1:You have to negotiate why do you think they do that skill? Why do you think a shipper would do that? Why do you think they set you up in a scenario where they know almost certainly you'll fail? Uh, they want to see if you have it.
Speaker 2:I feel like they want to see if you could get them that load. They want to see your grit. Pretty much is what I see it as. They want to see if you're actually hustling.
Speaker 1:Ding, ding, ding. They want to see your grit and if you'll hustle right which is the important piece right, whether they get the truck or not, yeah, it could be a big deal. It's probably not the end of the world, because it probably happens pretty often, or at the very least enough, that like they're not going to lose their job kind of scenario. But what they're really doing is it's like an interview. Right Like hey, I've got this really difficult job. You've been showing up at my office every day or every week, knocking on my door saying you want a job. I didn't have a job. You know what? Now I have a job and it's really difficult and it's it's almost impossible to succeed.
Speaker 1:But you wanted a shot. Here's your shot. Right, like it's the baptism by fire. They don't care whether or not you necessarily win or succeed. They care about your effort.
Speaker 1:Right, did you hustle? Were you responsive? Did you call them and ask them for details? Did you bring them options, even if they weren't what they wanted? Right, and in your instance, that was exactly how it played out.
Speaker 1:Right, like hey, I know you wanted 48 and I know this isn't a great option, but you told me it's really important. I got a truck there at six grand. I know it's above your budget, but I didn't want to tell them no. I wanted you to make the call because I know you're up against the wall with this Right. I wanted you to make the call because I know you're up against the wall with this right. Let them say no. Let them see that you hustled and made the phone calls knowing full well that that shit was next to impossible, and you did it anyway and you brought them the best of a bad situation. They will value that, appreciate it and look at you completely different than the person that went $ 4,800 on a $6,000 load. On a Friday afternoon I'm going to go watch YouTube for the rest of the day because I know I ain't getting that job Right. That's the difference, right? That's the marginal difference between an excellent performer in any industry and the average person who's not willing to go the extra mile in those scenarios.
Speaker 2:No, a hundred percent. That's exactly what happened. Like, I'll let them know. Hey, this is what it's costing. I know you want it for this. It's not in your ballpark, it's right here. They're like nah, man, it's too high, it's okay, but thank you for actually following up. And then I had a customer actually I think it was last week same thing, same exact thing happened was wanting to pay way less than what the market rate was. And then I followed up with him, sent him three, three rates. I actually sent him three of them and he was like hey, man, thank you for actually, like you know, sending your rates. I, he said I sent it over to like 10 brokers and only three people responded. And he was like you're one of the three who actually like responded yeah, now you're one of.
Speaker 1:You just eliminated seven of your competition by doing something fairly simple and fairly straightforward.
Speaker 2:And they knew it wasn't going to happen. They knew it wasn't going to happen, and that's the thing. And I think they know as well I mean, they've been in the industry long enough that they know but exactly what you said they're checking your hustle and your grit.
Speaker 1:And the last thing is and Steven pointed this out right is it is hard to get approved as a new broker in this market unless there's a reason. Meaning like you could be talking to Sally and Sally is getting yelled at to get this truck and she might have no ability to get the truck but her boss is like hey look, sally, we're not on board any other brokers right now. You should be able to get whatever trucks you need with who you have Right. So normally, to crack that, to be able to get them to open the doors to bring another freight broker in, you have to give them a very urgent or important reason, sometimes both, and this is exactly the example that Steven pointed out right Like if you would have been able to get that truck, say they want 48. Say you got them a truck for 55 or 53. So it's like 500 bucks above where they want it to be, which is a reasonable margin, even if you got it for 48, for you to hustle and get that If they really need that truck.
Speaker 1:This is going to tell you a lot, because one, if they're not willing to go to the 55 to book that truck, a few things could be true. Maybe it wasn't as important as they said it, maybe their loads can get pushed a lot even though they don't want them to be pushed, or maybe their boss just won't let them approve a higher amount above whatever that number is. So you learn a little bit about how they negotiate with you, which tells you a lot about the value of them as a customer. But in addition, if you do get that truck and let's say you got it for 53 or 54, and Sally says, hey look, I need that truck, can you secure them for me? I'm going to go to my procurement manager to see if they'll approve you as a new broker, because I really need that truck.
Speaker 1:When that happens, Sally goes to Jim and Jim goes hey look, I told you Sally, no other brokers. But she goes look, you told me we need this load picked up before the end of the weekend. You told me our customer needs this Monday. This is the only person that was willing to hustle enough and get me an option. If you need this load moved, we need to green light this brokerage.
Speaker 1:That's when you can get Jim to approve you, to get in the door sometimes because they don't want to onboard a broker just because they like talking to someone. They sometimes need a reason and it's sometimes a different decision maker. And when you're doing this, you also increase the likelihood that you get onboarded through these urgent situations. Again, it's maybe one in 10 or one in 40 sometimes that you get that truck, but every time you take that shot you get more of a likelihood you actually score right. And if you take no shots, you definitely don't score right. And yeah, those are really big takeaways for anybody out there prospecting trying to get more customers or has a lot of prospects and can't seem to close them right like this.
Speaker 2:Really, I think, puts a bow on the process and how you're going about it now yeah, it's, it's not easy, but I feel like if you, just if you show the customer you care, even though you'll never be close to their ballpark, you know, like something like it's, it's realistic, you won't be because, um, I think it was somewhere I read, ben, or I think you told me that it's the cheaper the truck, the higher the claims, you know, I believe, is. I think that's what it was.
Speaker 2:And then rule of thumb yeah and then you know if the truck is kind of more expensive, their tenure they're good, everybody knows they're good, they have a good rating. It's going to be more expensive, you know it's like buying a toy, a dollar tree, or buying a toy, a target, you know. So it's like it's you're. You're going to fall into that route, but I think you know it's all about saving money. At the end of the day, it's a business. You got to run it. You just got to fall into their, into their criteria for sure?
Speaker 1:Well, hey, really appreciate this. I think this is a great interview. I think this is going to be really helpful to anyone else out there. Any last words or anything you want to share before we wrap?
Speaker 2:No, this was a blessing. Thank you very much for having me. Thank you Honestly.
Speaker 1:It was really great having you on, enjoyed interview and for anyone else out there, whether you believe you can or believe you can't.