Episode #7: Uprooting Discrimination in the Work Sphere for a Fairer Tomorrow
Apr 17, 2024Season 1Episode 7
Joy
Embark on an enlightening journey with us, Sharon Wilson and Cindy LaCom, co-founders of Transforming Culture Consultants, as we unravel the complexities around gender inequity and workplace culture. Prepare to confront the realities behind the gender wage gap, armed with telling data that lays out the landscape of inequality, especially for women of color and those in specific fields. We identify the toll that unchecked discrimination takes on businesses, both culturally and financially.
Our intention is to rally HR professionals, executive directors, managers and employees to join forces in shaping safer, more fulfilling workplaces where respect isn't just expected—it's the norm. Our 'Martian perspective' flips the script, offering a fresh, objective view on the cultural challenges within our professional spaces. Through engaging discussions, free resources, and virtual consultations, listeners are invited to connect and contribute to a progressive community that's steadfast in its mission for gender equity. If you're ready to be part of a transformative movement, look no further—this episode promises to fuel your drive for change and equip you with the strategies to make it happen.
Embark on an enlightening journey with us, Sharon Wilson and Cindy LaCom, co-founders of Transforming Culture Consultants, as we unravel the complexities around gender inequity and workplace culture. Prepare to confront the realities behind the gender wage gap, armed with telling data that lays out the landscape of inequality, especially for women of color and those in specific fields. We identify the toll that unchecked discrimination takes on businesses, both culturally and financially.
Our intention is to rally HR professionals, executive directors, managers and employees to join forces in shaping safer, more fulfilling workplaces where respect isn't just expected—it's the norm. Our 'Martian perspective' flips the script, offering a fresh, objective view on the cultural challenges within our professional spaces. Through engaging discussions, free resources, and virtual consultations, listeners are invited to connect and contribute to a progressive community that's steadfast in its mission for gender equity. If you're ready to be part of a transformative movement, look no further—this episode promises to fuel your drive for change and equip you with the strategies to make it happen.
Well, welcome everyone to Transformation Talks. The intention of our podcast is to provide tips, strategies and inspiration to transform workplaces, communities and lives. I'm Sharon Wilson. I'm the co-founder and chief mindset and growth officer at Transforming Culture Consultants, and I have with me today our other co-founder, Cindy LaCom, who is our chief impact and inclusion officer.
Sharon Wilson:
In our last podcast we talked about the power of an anti-snitch culture that extends from the schoolyard playground to corporate America, and about the many ways that that particular culture inhibits an empowered workplace culture. For instance, if you're the target of or witness to, harassment, bullying or even outright workplace violence, it's more likely that many of us would like to acknowledge that we might not intervene, which is kind of shocking, I know, but an anti-snitch culture and the realities of the bystander effect reinforce that lack of intervention. And so there really is this kind of phenomenon that we wanted to share with you all. It's hard, but it's not impossible to nurture a truly empowered workplace culture, one where every employee feels valued, respected and heard, and our work as TCC consultants we help businesses and organizations achieve that goal. So today we want to spend a bit more time on some of the barriers that might inhibit that achievement of an empowered workplace culture Absolutely.
Cindy LaCom:
Yeah, thanks, Sharon, and I'm going to speak for a moment as the chief impact and inclusion officer and in that capacity, I'm keenly aware of structural inequities and I want to share a little bit of data with you on the gender reach gap. I know that some of you want to dismiss this as inaccurate, overblown, overhyped or worse, particularly, a kind of complaining, but the data, consistently and across all legitimate boards, tells us that the gender wage gap is real, with women in 2022 earning on average 17% less than men, and that wage gap is wider for women of color and for older women. Black women were paid 58% of what non-Hispanic white men were paid in 2020. And women of color are among the lowest paid workers in rural areas, with rural black and Hispanic women making just 56 cents for every dollar that rural white, non-hispanic men make in the United States. And this is in addition to what's often called occupational segregation, which occurs when one demographic group, in this case women, is overrepresented or underrepresented in a certain occupation. I'll offer just a couple of examples. The first one I want to actually use is that when we think of a kindergarten teacher, most of us imagine a woman, and, in fact, fewer than 3% of kindergarten teachers today are male, but among university biology professors, almost 60% are men, and they tend to populate full professor status at higher rates than their female colleagues in the same department, and what that means is that they're making more money and their job security is more sustainable. In other words, women tend to be overrepresented in field and occupations which make less money, whether that's as big care workers or elementary school teachers or nurses, as opposed to being physician, and I want to make it very clear.
Cindy LaCom:
This is not to diminish the importance of work in those fields, because it is profoundly important. Rather, I want to just point out that the gender wage gap is real and exacts a real price In many professions. The wage gap over a 30-year working career represents close to half a million dollars, and that's especially true in particular sectors of the finance sector, science and in tech, where sometimes that wage gap over a 30-year period is even higher. In Pennsylvania, which is where we live, that gap based on progress since 1979, the gender wage gap isn't predicted to clones until 2070. This means that if you are just starting on your career, you'll work over 35 years before you earn the same wage as men for the same or done Wow, and remember, these numbers are even more women of color, older women and disabled women.
Cindy LaCom:
So why should we care? Well, ideally, because all of us would care about creating a workplace culture that's diverse, equitable and inclusive, one where everyone feels a sense of belonging. But, more pragmatically, especially if you're a CEO or an HR manager who just wants there to be as few problems as possible when the day starts and when the day ends. I don't need to remind you that company complaints and lawsuits based on discrimination present a huge financial burden. Recent data from a few research center study shows that 42% of women surveyed report that they have faced some kind of gender determination in the workplace, whether that's based on harassment, pay gap, pregnancy discrimination or lack of representation in upper management, and those are only a few of the examples.
Cindy LaCom:
Over 30% of EEOC complaints are based on gender or sex discrimination, and, according to a recent government executive report, and I quote, people who experience sex discrimination, race discrimination and other forms of discrimination at work aren't getting much protection from the laws that are designed to shield them from it, and over 50% of workers who file discrimination complaints are fired, and the complaints themselves rarely lead to a successful outcome for the worker to file them.
Cindy LaCom:
So that's pretty dismal, right. Aside from the inequities that attended the data, we also know that it's expensive to replace an employee. It can cost between six to nine months of that person's salary. And it's even more expensive to replace millennials. I want to just add that recent data actually suggests that just the recruitment process can cost up to $4,000 or more. So long story short, businesses should be making a real, substantial commitment to gender equity in their workplaces, as the glass ceiling is still a real consequence of systemic sex. Sharon, you and I have talked about this and I know we both have experience, but I think yours is really really worth talking about. So are you comfortable talking about some of those?
Sharon Wilson:
Yeah, absolutely so really want to address it from a couple of different areas. You know, as a mindset mentor and a career coach, you know I've also worked with people and to be able to make changes in their careers and I really found that the age discrimination is real, especially when I've worked with women who are closing in on 50, there's a significant discrimination. It is really something that you know is looks to be hidden, but statistically really seen that be significant, and also for men, and I really feel that this is something that I think a lot of people feel that there really isn't a lot of that kind of thing going on, but I've seen that and I've also seen the impact in corporate America. When I was in HR I was a HR director for a company there was such a significant discrimination and gap in the wages and, as someone who had was privy to that information and to that, it was something that really concerned me because it was, although there were policies in place, there were also ways to skirt around those policies in different departments, and this is something that you know we're not going to be able to fix here on this one podcast, right, cindy? We are going to share some suggestions on how we can begin to start looking at this and really, for the most part in this podcast, our intention is to bring more awareness to this subject and I love, cindy, the data that you provided, because that data really hits home.
Sharon Wilson:
I know for me, when I was in corporate America and I was in sales and marketing and I was a senior vice president in a company and I found out that someone another senior vice president was making significantly more money as a man than I was, I was able to come to parody on it because I was in a position, cindy, that really impacted the bottom line, significantly impacted the bottom line.
Sharon Wilson:
All of my stats, all of my team stats, were really great.
Sharon Wilson:
We were going past all of our quotas and all that.
Sharon Wilson:
So I was able to make a case for that, and that's not always the case that, even when employees find that out, that they can really speak to a bottom line, especially that they're in positions that are not specifically bottom line oriented.
Sharon Wilson:
So I know that part of the reason that I was able to get parody once I did find that information out and it was purely by accident that I found it out, but when I did approach about that. I had something that I could say about the impact of the bottom line, and that's not what everyone can do, so I absolutely know that what you're saying is true. I've experienced it at various levels and various ways, from helping people to find positions and really seeing some of those challenges, and I'm not really sure what the answer is, how to solve all of it. But I know that we have to become aware of it, and when we become aware of something, then we can be able to start to make some changes, and the idea that this is not going to resolve till 2070 is just that blows my mind, cindy.
Cindy LaCom:
Isn't that depressing? I mean, you and I both do what we do because we believe that we can change that. That is not written in stone, it is changeable. I also really appreciate your point that policy and procedures matter deeply but that culture change takes time and that that's something to think about. I also really appreciated your point that you are in a position and that you were, as you said, kind of an exception to that rule. I want to point out because, if the majority of people who file discrimination complaints walk away feeling dissatisfied, I think that's even more true if we think about gender and violence when we extend our understanding of gender to include trans, non-binary and gender-were folks. Over half of let's just take UAI workers report employment discrimination and despite efforts to pass the Equality Act and it would provide federal protection from discrimination the LGBTQIA workers still face pretty amazing structural bias.
Sharon Wilson:
Yeah, and so what we want to do in this podcast is really to provide tips and strategies to really bring some awareness, and all this impacts workplace culture. We have to do a better job of addressing the gender and racial wage gaps, of destigmatizing and then providing mental health resources at work and supporting each other and forcing policies and procedures that promote equality. I mean we can do it. More than that, we really have to do it, and at TCC we can help. One way to start is to think about humor and how it can be weaponized. I mean, think about this.
Sharon Wilson:
How many of you have heard a so-called joke that is sexist, that has at its roots a negative message about women? I mean, and Cindy, really that can go across the board, whether it's about women or millennials or someone not remembering things as they get older. I mean, I just want us all to kind of think about that. It may seem like it's far from the gender wage gap, but we want to suggest that gender bias is normalized in and by humor and by what's considered acceptable in a workplace. So the insulting joke that may make you feel uncomfortable if you don't smile or laugh about it, I mean, you know there's something up about that.
Sharon Wilson:
We've talked about calling and then calling out in our other podcasts, holding others accountable for unacceptable statements or actions. But one step is to practice bystander advocacy, which we talked about in another podcast. To call someone in when they make a sexist joke or a joke in any kind of way, to pull them aside and ask them why they thought that joke was funny or what is it that was acceptable to make it in public in the workplace, and there's ways to be able to do this that really can be very positive and affirming. May seem like a small step, but the gender wage gap relies upon a social belief that women are less competent professional, managerial, specifically women as well, but calling someone on a misogynistic comment or joke is a small but significant way to challenge sexism in the workplace culture.
Cindy LaCom:
I agree completely. I think culture is often built on those seemingly small exchanges and moments. I also really love the idea of a whole training on humor in the workplace. Is it possible? Absolutely. This isn't just about censorship or cancel culture. It's about developing an empowered, respectable culture, one where no one is demeaned by the so-called jokes, whether they're based on gender, race, sexual identity, rampage and disability or, as you said, sharon, age and I actually think ageism is one of the last frontiers acceptable quote unquote discrimination. But I really do think that the kinds of workshops and trainings we provide can help you become more aware of when something like a joke might actually be deeply inappropriate and deeply dispowering.
Sharon Wilson:
I really think that's a great place to start because it's something where we can do a training and bring awareness to the idea that things that we may be joking about, that we're normalizing, have these kinds of impacts. I would expect a lot of people would then really understand why it's important to really become aware of the kinds of things that we're saying. So a training like that would really be great, really fun and, I think, really an opportunity for people to start in untangling a lot of this. We know we can't solve it all in this podcast. We know you can't solve it all in your organization in a year.
Sharon Wilson:
This is a cultural conditioning.
Sharon Wilson:
This is something that's going on in our culture across the board, and we're here to support you.
Sharon Wilson:
It's our intention to be a support and a resource for you to help navigate these unprecedented challenges in our workplace cultures and create thriving cultures that have a ripple effect that impact us all in a positive way. We'd love for you to join a community of HR professionals, executive directors and managers that are wanting to create and grow more empowered workplaces and organizations, and you can get free tips, resources and opportunities to attend our free virtual gatherings where you can engage with industry leaders and innovators exchange ideas, strategies and best practices by going to transformingcultureconsultantscom, we're also available to provide you with a free virtual consultation to explore any of these things that we're talking about in our podcast, or challenges or opportunities in your workplace culture. Get kind of a Martian perspective where we can step outside and look at objectively and to support you, and you can apply for that at transformingcultureconsultantscom. You can also connect with us on LinkedIn. At Transforming Culture Consultants, our vision is a world where employees feel happy, respected, valued and safe. Thank you for being part of that vision.
