Obstacles to Opportunities
When faced with life's obstacles, let's channel that negative energy into positivity and forge opportunities. Throughout the nation, business owners will share their experiences of triumphing over daunting challenges in their careers and lives, illustrating how they've harnessed these experiences for growth opportunities.
Obstacles to Opportunities
Behind the Trends: Ivy Zelman on Real Estate's Unseen Forces
Ever wondered how to climb to the top in a field where the odds seem stacked against you? Ivy Zelman did just that, and she joins us, Ryan Smith and Heather Caine, to unravel the tapestry of her career — from overcoming a challenging upbringing to becoming the definitive voice in home building analysis on Wall Street. Our conversation peels back the layers of her journey, revealing how a blend of fear and unyielding determination propelled her through the tumultuous 90s financial landscape and into the annals of industry legends.
Navigating the real estate market can often feel like trying to solve a Rubik's Cube blindfolded. But with Ivy's expert guidance, we unpack the peculiar trends shaping today's landscape, such as the curious mix of low sales volume and rising home prices, and what that means for both buyers and sellers. Our discussion zooms in on the intricacies of regional markets, taking a closer look at Southwest Florida's luxury sector and how lifestyle choices reflect in market fluctuations. It's a treasure trove of insight for anyone intrigued by the pulse of the property world.
But it's not all about the numbers and trends; our ethos and how we conduct ourselves in the professional sphere can make or break careers. Ivy and I share candid stories that highlight the art of assertiveness, the necessity of a strong work ethic, and the generational shifts in workplace attitudes. We wrap up contemplating the industry's evolution post-NAR settlement, examining how these changes might carve out new opportunities for those ready to rise to the challenge. For the real estate professionals tuning in, this episode isn't just a conversation — it's a blueprint for the future.
Check her out here: https://www.zelmanassociates.com/about/our-team
hello welcome to obstacles to opportunities podcast. I'm your host, heather kane, and today we have I'm ryan smith co-host today wonderful and we have ivy zellman here today, which she has an incredible background of being in the top 100s for Wall Street as just an incredible powerhouse woman, and we are so grateful because Ryan actually has a long standing relationship with Ivy right.
Speaker 2:Yes, I've known Ivy. I've known of Ivy, I should say for 25 years, back when she was the number one ranked home building analyst by institutional investor for many, many years. So that's back when I was a trading stocks actively and everybody knew Ivy at that time. So I knew of her never actually met her. Then it turned out that we have a mutual friend and one of her best friends happened to be one of my best friends. So we formally met about 15 years ago. And here we are.
Speaker 1:Here we are. So a little bit about Ryan real quick, just so the audience understands that Ryan is an incredible agent on the Cane Luxury team as well and has been helping clients here in Southwest Florida, and so I wanted to make sure that everyone knew a little bit about Ryan, because Jess is he is standing in for Jess today. Right, I am, yes, you're wearing the Jess Powell hat. I'm happy to be here. So, ryan, let's talk all about Ivy. So Ivy being this incredible powerhouse on Wall Street and being the analyst for builders. Ivy, how did that even begin?
Speaker 3:Well, first, thank you both for having me. It's a pleasure to be here and excited, especially having Ryan as the co-host. I didn't know that you were going to join us. That was a nice surprise.
Speaker 2:I didn't know we were until yesterday.
Speaker 3:There you go. Well, I feel old in dating myself, but I've been following the housing market for over 30 years and really I started my career working in investment banking at Salomon Brothers and after two years it's a two-year internship, or whatever they call it, and you're out of a job and at that point I was trying to get my MBA or thinking about applying and getting an MBA, and I didn't get into Harvard, stanford or Northwestern and I said you know what, forget it, I'm not going to get an MBA if I can't go to the best school. So I started looking internally at Salomon Brothers for an opportunity and there happened to be some openings in equity research, one of which was in the housing sector. So I began as an associate there and I've been doing it ever since.
Speaker 1:Wow, so Ivy being on Wall Street in the 90s. How was that?
Speaker 3:It was fun but it was hard work. You know, I think, that the environment was very different than it is today. There was no Me Too movement. There was, you know, a lot of boys clubs and you had to be one of the guys to survive. But I think that you know working long hours. My first two years on Wall Street I worked 80 to 100 hour weeks, a lot of tears. You know there weren't many women At my financial analyst program I started and first of all I was very intimidated because everybody was Ivy League and I wasn't, and that's a longer story of how I got even the job. But there were three women out of 70. And it was tough. But you know, I think that you know guys would come in hungover from the night before and the managing directors would, like you know, live vicariously through them and want to hear their stories. But God forbid a woman be late a few minutes. You know it's a whole different treatment and you had to have really tough, thick skin. So how did you get that thick skin?
Speaker 3:I think I was, you know, a tomboy growing up, one of three girls, middle child, and I was just one of those kids that really liked to win competitive in every aspect of my life. And when I was young, unfortunately, my father's career took a turn and I was on my own when I was 17, 18. And at that point my mom was financially dependent on him and I just was like, and they split up and I was like, I never want to be dependent on a man. So I was very driven to be successful and I wound up going to night school for my undergrad for six years and I was determined to, you know, make a lot of money. That was at the time.
Speaker 3:I was really good at math and I liked, you know, anything to do with money and finance and I didn't know much about Wall Street at all. So I actually majored in accounting Okay, because I thought it was safe, I'd be sure to get a job. And yet when I was in accounting and I was working at the time for as a secretary for Arthur Young, which is now Ernst Young, and I remember asking the accountants you know, do you like what you do? And most of them said no and I was like, oh no, I'm majoring in accounting, what am I going to do? And they said, well, you know, you won't be a good accountant, you're way, you need to go work on Wall Street. And then I started learning about Wall Street and that was my goal to go get a job on Wall Street. I did.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So being a middle child, being competitive and being in that situation, you know, obviously that influences the drive and the ambition that you have. That influences the drive and the ambition that you have. What would you say as far as an obstacle, that kind of like lit the fire in you and you said, you know you wanted to be on Wall Street and you made it happen. Like, can you attribute that to one thing that you knew growing up that was like this is why I'm going to do this.
Speaker 3:Well, I think, determination and persistency you know, I, once I decide I want to do something, you know I'm like a dog with a bone and I will go to you know no ends to get there. But I think it was fear, a lot of fear, drove me. And recognizing that, you know, I thought that that was the only way to really be successful and for reason, that was the trophy, so I had to have that trophy. So I was very determined and you know, I did a lot of what I call information interviews, where I would just talk to people, and I always ask people wherever I meet, and my, my friends are like this is not a great way to meet men because you start interviewing them.
Speaker 3:So what do you do? What's your background? And you having just a lot of questions that lead to understanding how people you know went through their own destiny and or journey, and I think that that gathering information and learning from others enabled me to sort of help narrow down what I wanted to do. So I encourage people, young people, when they're contemplating whether it be in the real estate industry, as a professional talk to realtors, understand what they do, don't just jump in blindly. Do your homework.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny, that is exactly what I did as a child as well. I have some similar correlations. I moved out when I was 17 years old and I had to kind of have my own apartment, pay my own expenses and then figure out college. And you know, I would say that Good for you. I would say it's fear. Yes, obviously right. And I also realized at a young age, like you can't count on anyone but yourself, right, right, and at the end of the day you're responsible, especially you have children. Yes, yeah, how many kids? Three, three, especially. You have children.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, how many kids? Three, three. My three Zs Zoe, zachary and Zia. How old? 23, 21, and 19.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice. So that's your fuel, right? Yeah, that's what fuels you to take everything to that next level. So now let's fast forward. So you were crushing on Wall Street.
Speaker 2:Now I mean the amount of attention that people I mean when ivy says that this stock, I mean let's, let's talk about that for a minute, ryan, when ivy recommends a stock, if she upgrades it from a hold to a buy, the stock goes up. That's just the facts. Are hedge funds managers, portfolio managers, listen to what she says and how did you command that authority?
Speaker 1:I mean, that's incredible.
Speaker 3:Well, I think that you know. Thank you for that. I think that that's not necessarily always the case, but what you have is credibility because you've done your homework, you provide information that's not just listening to what public management teams are saying on their quarterly conference calls. And you dig. And the way I did that, starting early on in my career, was by talking to private industry executives, whether they be private home builders or realtors or mortgage originators, building product companies, understanding what the cost side of the input costs, and by doing so, really field work and going and seeing communities, people recognize that you know what I was doing was proprietary and differentiated. So and then when I told them something and it actually came to fruition, then they start to take notice.
Speaker 3:And for a long time I was beating the drum about the risk of asbestos early on in the nineties and that the companies that were exposed back to the building product companies like Armstrong and Owens Corning, that they were going to go bankrupt. And part of that was because I met this special he's called a oh gosh, I'm going to think of the attorney, the type of attorney, but he was in asbestos and I went and talked to plaintiff attorneys. He's actually a special master, and a special master works with defendants and plaintiffs and I met him and then I started talking to other plaintiffs. So by doing all that work and that call was my biggest, first biggest call and I was right. So then when you write once, then people start to say, well, let me, I might have to listen to what she has to say. And then you have another call, that's right. Then you build that track record and now people have to pay attention.
Speaker 1:But it sounds to me like you look at the whole picture. You don't just look at the numbers.
Speaker 3:Absolutely not. No, I would say that the numbers are. You know, it's a compilation of everything, and you have to have not only an understanding of the financials but you have to understand what the overall industry is doing, behavior that is stepping outside of what would be at least shareholder conscious or shareholder friendly moves that these companies are making and sometimes they're not being good fiduciaries of capital. And then when you start to see that, that's when you really make good calls, because you're the one that's pointing out their shortcomings.
Speaker 2:Well, speaking of good calls, Ivy, you were given credit for calling the financial crisis in 2008. Can you tell us a little bit about leading up to that, and I even know my own experience about what I heard leading up to that? Of course, I wasn't in a position to make a call, but you were hearing the same things I was hearing from guys coming in on the train down from Greenwich into the city and talking about the bonds, everything else. What led you to make that call and how did you feel as you were making it, knowing that if you were wrong, well, you know it started way before the crash came to fruition, late 2004,.
Speaker 3:there was just clearly a lot of indicators that affordability was very stretched and I'll never forget in the earlier part of 2004, alan Greenspan basically said it's okay to go get an arm, and that really opened the door for mortgage companies to really be creative in offering products, whether it be option arms and all kinds of things. Negative amortization they had no income loans. They just kind of like the floodgates open and by 05, investors were predominantly the incremental buyers in the market. So I'm talking to private builders and I'm asking them how much of your homes that you're selling are to investors and they'd be like it's massive. And then talk to land developers that are telling you you wouldn't believe what these builders are paying for land. And they don't. They don't even make any sense, they don't pencil a return. So all of the industry, they called them my spies because I would talk to the realtors.
Speaker 3:I was with a mortgage originator having lunch in Cleveland and he was telling me about these liar loans and you know they're basically no income verification. And you can say and he's like, yeah, this kid has just graduated law school and I just wrote a contract. Um, he's buying a house and he doesn't have a job yet. I go how the hell are you gonna write a mortgage? He goes, well, he's gonna. I mean, he's a lawyer, he's gonna get a job, but shit, I don't care. He's like Fannie and Freddie will buy it. So that was the attitude. You know, as long as Fannie and Freddie are going to buy it or you know they're able to, you know, get it off their balance sheet, nobody really cared as long as they were making money. And so it was crazy. It was like go-go days.
Speaker 3:So my colleagues and I and my team, really one of our big pieces was in July of 05, we published a report called Investors Gone Wild. We published a report called Investors Gone Wild and where most people think the crash in the market happened in 08, 09, the GFC housing really started turning in July 05. And at that point it was really starting to become evident that inventory was building and we had sort of a mini downturn from 05 to really September of 06. And I'll never forget the stocks got crushed and I was like a hero. And and then all of a sudden, bob Toll I'm on a call with the Toll Brothers management team and they're like things are picking up and I get on the phone and I'm all pissed off and I'm like what Kool-Aid are you drinking? And that was one of my famous quotes.
Speaker 2:I remember hearing Bob. She just said to Bob Toll, you're drinking the Kool-Aid. That was. She just said to Bob Toll, you're drinking the Kool-Aid, I think that was.
Speaker 3:the other thing, heather, is that I asked questions that other people might not have. We're afraid to ask, or just like I just didn't care. But fast forward. It was March of 07 when New Century filed Chapter 11, and that was the beginning of the end, and that was my moment of vindication. And then, you know, everything just kind of tanked from there.
Speaker 1:I know it's funny. I actually entered the real estate world kind of in the middle of all of that, right, yeah, so in 2005 to 2008,. You know, I became a short sale specialist. Really I did. My husband and I bought a lot of short sales. I helped people with short sales. I did a ton of foreclosures. I did all of that and so I laugh now, being in the real estate industry and people say it's tough and like you don't know tough, you know what I mean Like this is not tough. You know. Like we're waiting six, eight months to hear back from a bank on a short sale and you're trying to figure out how to, you know, keep your clients at bay. Like that's tough. You know this is not, this is not. What do you and I know we're not going to talk stocks or anything what do you think of the market right now? I think it's a pretty healthy market.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I think that today the big challenge is a lack of inventory.
Speaker 3:The existing market interestingly, in 2023, we had transactions at recessionary low levels for volume, but yet home prices increased 6% Never seen that in 30 years. So to have that divergence, the new home market actually did fairly well as the mortgage industry supported builders' ability to do mortgage rate buy downs and they were offering value. In fact, the new home market gained so much share over the last few years from the existing market. Historically it had been running pre-COVID about 10% 11% for new homes and total transactions that's now running 15% to 17%. So I think it's tough for your industry because it's hard to get the listing. And then your sellers have this aspirational price that they want because home price has just soared. So as they start to get realistic and capitulate that they're not going to get that price that maybe their neighbor got, I think you're going to see more activity and we're now starting to see listings over the first few years actually increase year over year and that's a good thing for the market because turnover is really at very depressed levels.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is really at very depressed levels. Yeah, you know it's interesting. You know I always hear across. You know the country, just because we have an interior design platform where we have hundreds of agents that are all over, and you know I obviously we're here in Southwest Florida and we're in such a different market than most places across the country because most places are lacking in inventory, but here in Southwest Florida, in our luxury space, we have over a year of inventory. We're actually considered a buyer's market versus a seller's market. Isn't that insane? We haven't seen that in so long and it's been really fascinating to try and get exactly what you said the perspective of the sellers to understand that listen, what people were selling their homes two years ago. We have more price reductions than we have new listings coming in. Well, you know.
Speaker 3:Redfin just showed that 6% of transactions had a price reduction, which is up considerably. But I would say that it is a buyer's market right now period everywhere, even though inventory is constrained. With mortgage rates having backed up again and we're now back roughly 7%, affordability for the existing market is about 15% to 20% above historic trend line and so incomes are not keeping up with home prices and while mortgage rates were expected to come down, I don't expect they're going to come down much. I don't either. I mean a mortgage rate is priced off the 10-year yield and the 10-year yield is kind of right now 4.37 or something like that. Let's just call it 4.3. Historically you would add about 170 basis points or 1.7% to get to the mortgage rate. So if that were the case right now, 4.3 plus 1.7 is six. So mortgage rates should be six. But because the mortgage-backed security investors are demanding a higher return because of risk, that 170 basis points above the 10-year is now 260 basis points. So mortgage rates are much higher because of the risk in the market, whether it be risk of defaults, because we have a recession, or prepayments Rates are going to come down and then any investor would have obviously not the return that they underwrite. So I think mortgage rates are a big factor and now that mortgage rates are moving back up again, I think you're going to see the spring selling season it's going to fizzle out, but I'd say it's a buyer's market everywhere and what we are finally seeing is capitulation by sellers.
Speaker 3:Now in some markets you have such a tight inventory where maybe they'll get their asking price. But I'm here at a Taylor Marison, taylor Morrison community Esplanade and you know I go to the dog park with my little pet puppy, who will be one on Friday, and you know there are people there that are trying to sell their homes and it's taking longer and they're having, you know, to contemplate reducing their price. So I hear you about this market, part of which is because a new construction market yeah, as opposed to Cleveland, where I live, there's very little new construction. So if you go down below the Mason-Dixon line or you go, you know, west of the Mississippi and below California, there's so much new construction southwest and the Phoenix market and Las Vegas market, I mean those markets are where the builders go. It's a herd mentality. Where are the people going? The builders follow suit, but in the northeast and really in the Midwest. It's a much tougher market from a lack of inventory. There's just not as much new construction.
Speaker 1:So right now, with the way the market is, we're so excited to have you as a part-time resident here in Southwest Florida. Yeah, so what brought you to Naples Florida?
Speaker 3:I didn't want to be cold anymore. It's freezing. But to Naples, florida, I didn't want to be cold anymore, it was freezing. But why Naples? I think Naples offers the lifestyle I'm looking for. I like golf, but I also like the laid-back nature and it's beautiful and they've got good restaurants and I like downtown but it's not too much. My daughters live in Miami and that's crazy for me and I did that when I was young. I'm ready just to be a little bit more chill.
Speaker 1:I always laugh when I meet people that have we're a second home destination city. You know a lot of second homes that I meet people that have a second home here, that live in Miami, and I always laugh and I'm like, wait a minute, why do you have a second home here? And it's like exactly what you said. You know, they just want to get out of the craziness of Miami to be in Naples, and which which I love, because, yes, we are, you know this more laid back, incredible lifestyle, but we still have all the things that Miami has to offer, just in a little bit more of a subdued you know feeling when you say well, I mean you don't have the hard rock or you know concerts and, yeah, sporting events, but maybe a little bit.
Speaker 3:I'd say that if you just go down alligator alley and you'll be there in two hours, and I am quite often visiting my daughters that are both at University of Miami, so and it's good. Two hours, good distance, you know. So you can get access to all of that without necessarily needing to be right there.
Speaker 1:So my daughter just informed me last night that she wants to go to the University of Miami Great school. Did your daughter?
Speaker 3:My 19-year-old is there right now and she's a freshman, and my oldest will graduate this year.
Speaker 1:Ok, so two of your girls from Ohio came to Miami before you even had your home here in Naples.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's where they drove me here. They didn't want me too close and I didn't want to be too close, so Naples was an alternative. So you know, and I really didn't want to be in Miami, having had visit them, and actually I went to Houston. My son goes to Rice University, my dad lives in Houston and I lived in Rice Village for a winter. I rented and I didn't like Texas. I mean no offense, but you know the big trucks and driving down the highway with these guys going a hundred miles an hour. It's just a lot of cowboys there. So, yeah, I like it here. A lot of Midwesterners. It feels more like home.
Speaker 1:You know it is. We get a lot of Michigan, indiana. You know more of Ohio, ohio, lots of Ohio. So, ivy, what's next for you?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, I'm at that point in my life. I read a great book called from strength to strength by Arthur Brooks. I highly recommend it. I listened to it, actually, but I sold my business in July of 2021. And I wasn't sure, after the three-year contract was up, what I was going to do. But I've now found myself really enjoying working in a new role. I'm really working to develop my young analysts that there's about 15 of us in research and sort of passing the baton. Like you know, cnbc wants me on, so I'll go once in a while, but I'm really pushing them and I've got tenured analysts that work for me from anywhere from 10 years to 20 years that have been with me, and so it's their turn, and so the new owners. I'm really working to develop them and I want to pay it forward. I wrote a book and it was a pay-it-forward book about my life and you know that you can do it the name of the book, because I downloaded to listen to it.
Speaker 3:It's called Give Me Shelter my favorite band's Rolling Stones and I thought it was kind of cool to shelter housing. But really it's about now paying it forward and I'm going to be teaching a class at Case Western University, a business class, in the fall and and who knows. But I get to have the best of both worlds because I can work and still get to have a little bit more freedom and flexibility and work remote. So it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:What would you say to those young women right now that could be listening, that want to follow in your shoes and have a footprint in Wall Street?
Speaker 3:Well, I'd say first, you've got to have thick skin and that you need to be willing to ask a lot of questions and do your homework. And you know a lot of young women that I work with at Walker Dunlop, our parent company, and I do a lot of women leadership conferences and speak to women. I think there's a lot of hesitation to they just feel lucky to have the job or they don't want to ask for too much and they're hesitant as opposed to go in and ask exactly what you deserve to to to get, whether it be your bonus or a promotion. And don't be afraid. And if you know someone talks to you inappropriately, you know, say that's not cool. And I'd use probably other words if we weren't on a public podcast, but I I think you know I would just bitch, slap them. Basically, yeah.
Speaker 1:I like my favorite term. I mean you and I yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't allow people to treat me inappropriately and I think that a lot of young people starting out, necessarily they should have an attitude, but they just need to believe in themselves and, you know, go forward with the expectation that they could do anything they want. And you just have to push forward and and work hard. Working hard is really the key. And people don't you know millennials, I can't take it, they're just, they just want it all, they just want to. You know, they want their weekends, they want their evening. So I had a young person I'll tell you a quick story that I was going with my kids to Europe in June and we were in you, that I was going with my kids to Europe in June and we were in you know, whatever the lounge that, and the kids are like mom, where have you been?
Speaker 3:I said I interviewed this kid for an hour and a half and I love him. He's amazing, this kid that we're hiring and I think he was at Wisconsin and he just blew me away. So he's working for us for six months and his boss, who covers real estate services he covers Zillow and Remax and Redfin and all the stocks and he's like this kid is just. You know he doesn't get this. He doesn't call me back and I'm like what? So I call him up and I go, cause he's kind of Ryan McKeveney, who's my senior Ellis for the 15 years covering that part of our housing ecosystem. He's a little bit too nice, you know, and I'm not nice.
Speaker 3:So I called up this kid, nick, and I said Nick, you know where is the kid I met on? You know, zoom? I just don't who are you? Because the guy that I met wouldn't be performing like you're performing, and that little bitch slap. This kid has turned around. Yes, back to being the kid that I interviewed on Zoom. So, not allowing unacceptable behavior and doing your best, you know, be your best every day. Yeah, I used to stand in front of my boss at Salon Brothers when I was an associate and he'd give me an assignment and then I'd be in his office like a dog panting. I'd be like, okay, now what? Yeah, what's next? Yeah, what's next? And I just think you're hungry, be hungry, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love it. I mean, I think, at the end of the day, the people that are willing to take that next level in their life are the ones that are the future leaders. And I think, unfortunately, so many times people take a passive versus aggressive approach and I always say I don't want to be in business with passive people, especially when I'm in an industry that I'm in, in the housing industry Like you've got to aggressively negotiate aggressively, market aggressively, do everything you can.
Speaker 3:And realtors get beat up. I mean, I know realtors get a lot of flack from their especially from their sellers with you know the way they're treated, so you have to have really thick skin. But there's a great book for young people too I think it should be required reading, by Scott Galloway, called Algebra of Happiness. And my son is 21 and is like you know, I don't want to work as much as you work, mom. You know, and I said you know, the reality is you put your time in, whether it be your 20s and your 30s, and by the time it's like this curve, you get to your 40s, you kind of hit peak and then it kind of starts to mellow out and the balance comes in. But I do think that young people today don't necessarily really want to work hard. So I gave these kids that I'm managing now opportunities. So we're going to start covering some consumer household names like Williams-Sonoma Restoration Hardware, expanding our opportunities, because there's young people that want more covering storage, manufactured housing, reits, shelter, things. And so I said listen every Monday.
Speaker 3:Every Monday Bill Campbell, who was an amazing coach that was on the board of Apple. He coached Eric Schmidt at Google, he coached Mark Zuckerberg, and one of his philosophies was that you you, every day, when you're meeting with your people, talk about their personal lives. You know, be have a personal connection. So about seven years ago, after reading that book, coach Campbell, we, every Monday morning, we get on and we talk about our favorite parts of our weekend. Takes like a half an hour and there's only 25 of us.
Speaker 3:So it, you know, go around the weekend and all these young people let's just say the under 30 crowd pickleball what they did movies and this, that, and I don't hear anybody say they worked. So I actually give these two young men an opportunity. I go to them. By the way, if you really want this, it's not my career, it's your career. So, no pickleball. You got to work on the weekends, you got to work at night because you got to make sure you're doing your day job. If you're getting this incremental opportunity, then you've got to be hungry enough to work and so, just, it's your shot at it. If you want to be me, you're not going to do it 40 hours a week. So that's something that a lot of people young today they don't realize that it's pretty difficult climbing that ladder.
Speaker 1:It is, and that's why not too many people get there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, well, one last thing because I think it's important. I speak at a lot of universities. The kids are at University of Miami, so I've been there to the business school and I get up and I tell them, if anybody is interested in a career in equity research or Wall Street, just email me at ivyatzellmanassociatescom. And my ex-husband was like are you out of your mind? You know how many kids are going to contact you and you know how many kids contacted me Probably four, yeah. And guess what? The four have turned zero and I email everyone back. So I think that that just gives us an idea that there's going to be a very small percent that are going to be Heather, that are going to be Ryan, are going to be Ivy, and those people are going to be your standouts.
Speaker 1:Those are the ones, what we want on our team. You know it's interesting that you say that. So Gary Keller, who is, you know, yeah, so he's become an incredible mentor to me and, um, you know we have a really great close relationship and you know he settled the lawsuit for $70 million right Um, with the NIR and he did that prior to I mean before the NIR settlement and you know he and I were talking and he's like you know, I really thought that maybe I might get a few emails from the almost 200,000 agents that we have part of Keller Williams, and he's like you're one of a few that actually picked up the phone to say thank you, to say you know what you did this to protect us. And unfortunately, so many people have that feeling of entitlement versus gratitude and I think if you come from a place of gratitude and assertiveness, then you can get so far in life, but unfortunately people just don't do it.
Speaker 3:Oh, good for you. So what do you think about the whole NAR settlement?
Speaker 1:I have some thoughts, but I want to hear what you think we could talk for like an hour longer if we wanted to. You know, I actually. So I I actually am happy about it. I feel like our industry has gotten so saturated with people that really aren't bringing the value to the buyers and sellers, so I feel like this is a perfect time for the agents to all reevaluate the value that they can contribute to help sellers when it comes to maximizing the profit on the sale of their house. And what are your menu of services right? What are you offering? Because I feel like things were too vague in our industry. So I feel like this is an opportunity for that 1% to rise up and that the other agents that don't have the negotiation skills, don't have the value, don't have the services that they're going to unfortunately leave well, fortunately leave this industry, which then just gives more opportunity for people like ourselves that are ready to put the gloves on and go to battle, you know.
Speaker 3:No, absolutely. Consolidation is coming.
Speaker 1:It is 100% and we're ready for it. Yeah, that's exciting. Well, ivy, I thank you so much for spending this time with us, and thank you, ryan.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for having me on as well, Heather.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That was a lot of fun, you guys. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thank you Wonderful. We're happy to have you. Thank you.
