Make It ‘Til You Make It w/ Alison Taffel-Rabinowitz

On this week’s episode of Don’t F*ck this Up, Lauren is joined by negotiation coach and founder of The Finishing School, Alison Taffel-Rabinowitz. 

An unstoppable force on a mission to revolutionize your job hunt game, Alison is all in when it comes to empowering individuals to unleash their storytelling prowess, land their dream jobs, and secure the bag - $1M in raises and counting!

Alison and Lauren spill the beans on standing out in a competitive job market, negotiation strategies that start long before you receive an offer, and their differing opinions on cover letters. Plus, Alison shares ways to boost your confidence, stick the landing on networking, and claim the compensation you truly deserve. 

Download, review, and follow the podcast so you never miss an episode.

Follow Don’t Fuck This Up on IG: @dontfuckthisup.podcast
Follow Lauren Alvarez on IG: @LaurentheAlvarez
Follow Alison on IG: @alison.taffel.rabinowitz @thefinishingschoolco
Connect with Alison on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taffel/

Alison offers one-on-one coaching, career development classes, and an action-oriented empowerment curriculum designed to combat the gender pay gap, one raise at a time. Stop leaving money (and benefits) on the table and register for www.thefinishingschool.co to learn how to earn more. 

Email the show at advice@dontfckthisup.com for your questions to be answered on an upcoming episode!

Transcript

Lauren Alvarez (00:00)
Hello and welcome to another episode of Don't Fuck This Up. Today I am here with Alison Taffel-Rabinowitz, negotiation coach and founder of the finishing school. Alison, welcome to Don't Fuck This Up.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (00:13)
Thank you. I'm so happy to be with you today.

Lauren Alvarez (00:17)
I'm just really glad that you could be here. And I have to say, you're already having a bang up 2024. I am so stoked for you. But one thing I just want to even start out before we even talk about how you're doing, I just know that you've helped people get over a million dollars in raises. And I just have to say, thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing. Let's start off there.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (00:39)
Well, it's amazing. I have a two-year-old daughter, and that's something that I think about is how to make her proud and how to build a world where her daughter won't be fighting for money or feeling bad about asking for it and feel confident. That's something that I do with my business almost like it's funny. I joke that now I give off boss mom vibes, which is...

different than the like, hype girl vibes that I used to give off. So yeah.

Lauren Alvarez (01:14)
I really love that. I mean, there's so much I'm excited to chat about today. How are you doing for real?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (01:20)
Um, I would have to, to sum that up in a, maybe a meme that I, for anyone who doesn't know me, I'm a meme girly. Um, and I recently saw something that said manic impressive. And I was like, you know what? That's, that's kind of how my year is starting out. I mean, it's, it's crazy. NBC calls me first week of the year. I, I got a chance to give people advice of how to start their year out, you know,

Lauren Alvarez (01:35)
Hehe

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (01:50)
pushing for a raise and that was a really cool opportunity to scale my advice. And you say, you know, you've made a million dollars for women, like that's just a small piece of the pie for me. Like I wanna be able to help as many people as possible.

Lauren Alvarez (02:06)
Yeah, I think that that's like, I mean, such an ethos that you really see running through, you know, why you even started The Finishing School, which we definitely will get into. But I think that it's also about just like advocating for yourself and, you know, instilling confidence. You know, it's funny you said, you know, not being the hype.

hype person, but I actually think you are kind of a hype queen in a great way. Right? Like you are that's what a coach does. And sometimes we don't even know like, I don't know if I could take my own medicine that I administer sometimes, but I'm out here giving it. And people are like, yes. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, wait, I need to do that too. So just like pausing and reflecting and being like, yeah, 2024 is going to be even better than last year. And you're out here doing it manifesting it.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (02:50)
You know, I manifest is a funny word, like, I am a little bit crunchy or woo in the sense that my desk has some crystals on it. But, you know, I really, really believe in making it till you make it, you know, and just, just starting. Don't, you know, start with a blank page. It's, it's more fun to scribble until something cool comes out of it, you know.

Lauren Alvarez (03:14)
Yeah, I really love that too, because I think that oftentimes that analysis paralysis can kick in and we're like, well, you know, they say like perfection is the enemy of good or like just holding onto something and being like, I'm not ready to share it yet. And I actually find that, you know, and Abby and I talked about this too when she was on the show a few weeks ago and it was like, you know, when you tell people about the things that you want to make happen.

the accountability that builds in. I call it a personal board of directors. I didn't create that term, but I do call it that, right? And it's like, when you have the people that you're like, you know what, I need a little bit of gas up. I need a little bit of like reminding of why I'm doing this. That accountability, it is so significant. Yes, manifesting. I do, I have some crystals in my studio too, but I think that there is something to be said about being really intentional. Did you make a mood board for 2024? Did you?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (03:40)
Peace!

Hehe

Lauren Alvarez (04:04)
glue some dollar bills to it, like what's happening for you?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (04:06)
I didn't, I actually put up that sign that I was just telling you about in front of my desk to encourage, it says.

Lauren Alvarez (04:16)
And for those who can't see, it says, please don't say what, Alison?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (04:22)
damn when you hear the price. So I put that, you know, to motivate me to not only teach people their value, but to know my own value and to get paid for my value and think about ways to scale myself and make money, helping other people make money. So that was my like manifestation, I guess, but.

Lauren Alvarez (04:25)
I love that.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (04:52)
I really have had to put an action plan into place to be able to do that because something I know I wrote you about is like people getting over the hump of like figuring out that you should get help with your career or you should ask for more. Like it's so hard to get people to sometimes invest in themselves. And it's amazing like.

Lauren Alvarez (05:09)
Yeah.

Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (05:18)
You know, I average like a $10,000 raise with people. And that's just by giving them the confidence, the, the scripts and support, you know, along the whole life cycle of the job hunt so that they feel like they're walking in as the top performer that they are.

Lauren Alvarez (05:41)
Yeah. And I think it's interesting because I also advise, similarly, even executives. And I always let people know who are earlier in their careers. It's not just an early to mid-career problem. This is also executives. This is people who have 20-plus years of experience in industry. They've been doing this for a long time. And they still don't know how to negotiate. In fact, they're so bad at it sometimes that I'm like, I'm sorry, did you just?

apologize for asking for what you were making in your last role. There's so much wrong with this. Let's unpack it. And I think that, yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (06:13)
Oh my God, never tell anyone what you were making in your last job. It drives me crazy that some people try to use that as a barometer. Like you put yourself in such a bad position when you could have been putting yourself in a range that you felt comfortable with.

Lauren Alvarez (06:32)
I mean, and let's not give away the whole sauce, but what's a one-liner somebody could use instead of saying, well, I'm happy to tell you what I used to make, because hello, if you're listening and you don't know this, an employer or prospective employer cannot legally ask you what you were making in your last role. So do not, if somebody asks you that, you don't have to answer, you could just say, I don't need to disclose that. But if you feel like you don't know how to say that number, because I think that that's where people really fall apart, what's your approach, Alison? What can we share with listeners today?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (06:47)
Mm-mm. Nope.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I'm a little tricky with my advice because of the new changes in certain places where they do publish the range. So usually I used to tell people to say, you know, when they say, what is the number, you know, you come back and you say, I wanna learn more about the role, the scope, meet the team, their challenges, and be able to see how with the value I can add.

Lauren Alvarez (07:10)
Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (07:31)
and I'll be happy to discuss a number later on down the road. I'm sure, well, yeah, punting the question. Or punting it to them, what's the budget when it wasn't put out there? But with that being said, doing your research is insanely important, whether it's through whisper networks, whether it's through mentors and networking and asking people what that range should be, whether it's looking up on Glassdoor or salary.com, Googling it, Quora, whatever.

Lauren Alvarez (07:34)
So you're punting the question to further interviews.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (08:02)
it is important to research that range. So you can say the range and you can explain why you should be at the top of that range. And you have to be able to articulate your wins and make a business case. It's a business conversation. People should be scared of it. It's one of those, you know, big girl panties kind of conversations that you have to be able to figure out whatever it is that's gonna make you confident. I joke with other people for me, like right before this, I was...

Lauren Alvarez (08:04)
Yeah.

Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (08:31)
playing Cardi B money, like that is how it helps me to get confident is to do a little dance and get into a cool song and you know, not in a cheesy way, but in a maybe in a cheesy way. But you just have to figure out what makes you confident, maybe a special kind of perfume or whatever it is. I mean, yeah, it's, it's a hard thing though to jump over what is confidence? How do you

Lauren Alvarez (08:33)
Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (09:01)
How do you get it? There's a huge competence gap between women and men, obviously. Like there's a reason that men look at a job application or a job description and they say, look at it. And they're like, I can do 60% of this. I'm gonna apply. And that women don't think they can do it unless they meet a hundred percent, you know? And you should just apply. Let them decide to not interfere.

Lauren Alvarez (09:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And also, I advise, you know, I think that what's so interesting about that is I advise people if you match 100% of the criteria in the job description, you're probably too experienced for it and you're going to be bored. So you're going to go into that role. And yes, the first 60 to 90 days, 100% of your time, 90% of your time is doing the job description. But the aspiration should be to have it be 60% of your time is your job description, quote unquote. Do we even get those anymore? I feel like they like give them once and then they're like, I never saw it again.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (09:53)
Yeah.

Lauren Alvarez (09:55)
But you know, I think that beyond that, what you do with that 40% of your time or 70% of your time is your job description, 30% of your time, you're not eating chips and chilling. You're figuring out ways to, you know, carve out projects, work, things that nobody's asking for necessarily, but that need to be done in order to show how you can grow, what you can contribute to the company outside of what's expected. And I think that is so significant. So if you meet 100% of the criteria, yeah, you're.

probably too qualified for the role. If you still wanna apply, go for it, but just know that you're gonna have to create your own job description to not get bored. And I mean, what a great challenge.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (10:30)
And it's sometimes, yeah, and sometimes it's hard to get the number you want when you try to dream up that, you know, pick your own major situation in a job, you know? And so, I mean, it is a delicate dance figuring out how to not say the highest number because you don't wanna give yourself no room to grow, you know, but also to, as Cindy Gallop says, say the highest number that you can say out loud without laughing, right?

Lauren Alvarez (10:37)
That's right.

Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (10:59)
You still need to channel that energy, but you read the room. You look at the range. You think about how the company's doing financially and you decide how to ask in a way that's real negotiation, which is not everybody always walks around, walks away exactly happy. Somebody gives up something and somebody's getting something. So you have to be ready to take that risk.

Lauren Alvarez (11:04)
Yeah.

Yeah. I also think that there's this old philosophy of whoever talks money first loses. And I just want to share with all of our listeners, that is not real. And so I would actually say, I coach a little bit differently, and I think that we are gleaning from each other. But I like to talk about money early, often. I mean, I was a recruiter for a number of years. I worked on the talent side. I've been in HR where people were hired in under false promises. Talk about money early, often, as often as you can.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (11:36)
Mm-hmm.

Lauren Alvarez (11:49)
and then you start to own your shit when it comes to having that conversation, right? And I think that's a big part of what you were saying, Alison, is just like having ownership over that, feeling confident in the number that you're saying, and also check in on other job postings. Even if it's a company that's not a company you wanna work at or not a position you wanna work at, check in on their postage ranges. If you don't live in a city or a state that requires...

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (11:52)
Alright.

Lauren Alvarez (12:10)
you know, ranges to be posted. Look at California, look at Colorado, look at New York. Those are places that absolutely have to post those ranges. Look at those companies. What are people making in those roles? Subtract maybe 10 to 15%, you know, if you live in St. Louis, because the cost of living is different, but use that as a litmus. Like empower yourself with information. And then I always really like to say, like if you have a number in mind and you're worried that for some reason it seems really high, you can share that like, you know, you have, you know, before you talk about money, you'd love to learn a little bit about

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (12:24)
Hmm?

Lauren Alvarez (12:40)
X companies approach to total compensation. What's your total comp philosophy? And what that means is like, there is some combination of base, bonus, maybe equity, depending on the type of company you're talking to. So if it's a company that's offering you equity, that could be really attractive. Or if it's a company that is maybe in the agency space, where I know you and I both have worked, Alison, it's like, maybe we're not gonna be offered anything and you really can't trust that bonus. So your base salary needs to be really capped.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (12:42)
Mm-hmm.

Lauren Alvarez (13:06)
cash heavy on the compensation. So again, just like different strategies, different environments are going to pay differently. So don't just be like a one size fits all blanket, really, like Alison said, I think it's about investigating the company themselves, asking those questions. And if the hiring manager or recruiter isn't equipped to answer them, that might be a flag to you that this company doesn't have their shit together.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (13:26)
Hmm. Yeah, it's interesting. You know, I think that people forget that there's more to negotiate than just the money, the base salary. And this is especially important right now that people want hybrid work or they want work from home. You know, there's so many things that you can negotiate. I talked to so many people who are trying to figure out, you know, I want money for continuing education.

or I want money for fertility benefits, or I want money for, or I want extra vacation time. Like you have to figure out what your rich life is, basically, and like decide what would make you feel like you got a total compensation program, or package, I'm sorry, that you're happy with and you feel valued and you feel, they feel like you're valuable. That's what you're going for.

Lauren Alvarez (14:06)
Hmm.

Yeah, I think that's so interesting. And I know that you posted about that recently that you and your husband sat down and was like, what does our rich life look like? And I think it's really interesting and that's gonna be different for everybody. Mary Connelly and I talked about that during her episode. She really got into talking about what your priorities are. And if you kind of fib to yourself and you're like, money isn't that important, it's number five on the list. And then you're in said role and you're feeling like you're not seen, you're not being recognized and you're not being compensated.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (14:31)
Mm-hmm.

Lauren Alvarez (14:50)
maybe you weren't truthful with yourself about how important financial success is and what that means to you. And the word success is very like, tepid, it's different for everybody, it's so subjective. But I think that you also shared something I thought was really interesting recently about how much a woman loses over the course of her lifetime by not setting herself up early career for that kind of financial dollar amount. And can you talk about that a little bit?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (15:17)
Yeah, if you don't negotiate on your first job, you stand to lose over half a million dollars over the course of your career. And by the time you're 60, you've lost half a million dollars, $600,000 specifically. And I think we have to look at the statistics of what goes on with the gender pay gap. It's not just...

Lauren Alvarez (15:25)
Ouch.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (15:44)
white women, it's a whole diverse range that gets screwed over. And I think that, unfortunately, pay parity is not growing as fast as it should. I think the ranges being published is a move forward, right? But we have to put the power into our own hands. Something I did a couple years ago was I made a zine that taught women how to negotiate.

Lauren Alvarez (15:59)
Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (16:12)
And that was cool because it was like accessible. People were able to share it almost as a secret wink to each other of we should be asking for more. Here are the scripts. This is exactly what you should say. And a celebration of we are a community of people who are tired of working so hard and not owning a piece of the pie, which is great when you talk about equity because I think that you have to be

educated about equity in order to have a good negotiation so that when they're throwing out numbers, you can make the math as fast as they're making the math math.

Lauren Alvarez (16:46)
Yeah.

Yeah. And I think also having some trust in that there are really great recruiters out there who want you to be successful, who want you to make more than the minimum range, and just having candid conversations. If this is your first role that you're negotiating that has equity early on in the conversation, when things go well on that recruiter phone screen, or you talk to the hiring manager and the recruiter's like, how did it go? And you're like, amazing. And they're like, they loved you. We want to move you forward. That's a great time to just ask for a quick conversation and be like, hey, I just wanted to check in.

haven't been in a situation where equity was part of the total comp. And I just want to share, I'm doing research on my own, but I'd love to just talk with you a little bit about it. There is nothing wrong with saying that. It will also help the recruiter to consider that they may need to actually pitch to you the importance of equity in the role in the company. When you're coming in, if you don't value equity, then it also could be a problem.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (17:39)
Mmmm

Lauren Alvarez (17:46)
be off putting to the hiring team. If you kind of aren't really caring about equity, they might be like, oh, well, maybe Alison doesn't really want to be in the company for even a year to start vesting. And so I think it can be a really good nod of your interest and your excitement about the company if it is something that you really want to do. But also, as we've learned, companies, you're still a line item. We're not families. We are companies. And any company that says it's a family, just run. Run, run, run.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (18:07)
Oh yeah.

Yes, that's hilarious. And, you know, I had a fun little startup experience myself, and right after I worked at Inc Magazine. And I think that you have to look at it as even if like there's wins at the end of the day, you can end up not making any money. Like 90% of startups, quote, unquote, fail. Startup I worked for,

Lauren Alvarez (18:35)
Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (18:41)
sold to another company for the data we acquired. Am I rich? No. Did I get anything? Some other company owns my stock. But like, it's kind of a success theater story in that sense. But like, I learned so much building something from nothing. So it is a career path that's kind of interesting for people who are really looking to get their, you know, hands into a gnarly problem and figure out.

Lauren Alvarez (18:53)
Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (19:09)
how to iterate and fix it. And sometimes we just talk about tech companies and people think, whatever company it is, Google meta, whatever, and they don't think about some of these small companies. And I have to tell you, one of the biggest hints that I drop to people when I'm talking to them is just from working at Inc Magazine, I tell them to look at the Inc 5000 list. That means that they're the fastest growing companies in America and they're hiring.

Lauren Alvarez (19:09)
Yeah.

Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (19:39)
So, you know, I think that that's like a little fun job hack for people to know.

Lauren Alvarez (19:45)
I love that. That's really cool. I wish I had taken that advice earlier in my career when I was looking because it's like, yeah, where do I go? Where are the cool companies? And I often ask people, you know, when we're talking about, you know, their next opportunity, okay, well, like name three to five companies that are like aspirational, exciting, interesting. You'd be standing outside with a sign if you could have them and you're getting hired that day, right?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (20:07)
yeah, I think that you have to have a value system for picking out what kind of job you're going after. And I think it's important to tell the company how you align with their values during the interview process.

Lauren Alvarez (20:18)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (20:24)
You know, and people don't always know how to research that. You know, it's really just digging into like the about me page, reading about their values, maybe finding a media kit for their company or some kind of sales presentation, if you can get it, listening to podcasts, looking at press releases. But like you can get a company's vibe and come into an interview being like, I belong here by studying their culture and at least what they put out there as their culture, their aspirational culture, we'll say.

Lauren Alvarez (20:54)
Yes. And I think that's really interesting because I've actually done that myself and I give that advice too is when you're going to be interviewing with someone, if you can find a podcast, listen to just a little excerpt, get their vibe. And there's something that like I really think is a smart move when you're interviewing is energy matching. You know, and yes, I'm giving away some secrets here, but like, why not? This is a place to give them energy matching. You know, if the person that you're speaking to is super intense, they've had 10 cups of coffee and probably three Red Bulls, they did pushups before the meeting and you can hear that in the podcast.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (21:10)
Mm-hmm.

Lauren Alvarez (21:22)
Maybe elevate your energy so that they feel like, you know, you're not a wet noodle, you know, in the call. Or if someone's a little bit more soft spoken and they're a little bit more subtle and, you know, they're really bookish or they referenced four different things that they were reading. It's not a cheat code to pay attention to that and to bring up, you know, hey, what's the best book you've read lately? Like just finding ways to create, you know, a

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (21:28)
What's this?

Lauren Alvarez (21:47)
equal ground, you're also interviewing the company, you're interviewing the person, you're getting information about them. Put on your curiosity hat, your little headlamp and get in there.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (21:55)
Yeah. And we spend more time with the people we work with sometimes than the people we love. So people wanna hire people that they wanna hang out with. And I mean, yes, that's amplified in the agency world. We can talk about that at another date, but I think in general, creating that connection with whoever your hiring manager is or the people that you're gonna be managing.

Lauren Alvarez (22:04)
Yes.

Hehe

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (22:23)
is super important during the interview process. First impressions are really one of the mistakes I see is that a lot of people think that they should introduce themselves in chronological order and sometimes people get lost in that story, right? So I always talk to people and I'm like, okay, let's think of it as who am I currently?

Lauren Alvarez (22:26)
Yes.

No.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (22:50)
present, who was I, past, and then who am I going to be, future, which is why I'm standing in front of you here today because I'm the perfect candidate for this company. You know, and I just switched up that past, you know, starting with past, because who wants to hear where you graduated from and what sorority you were in and like, whatever it is, you know? I know, no.

Lauren Alvarez (23:02)
I love that.

I don't. I mean, yeah. And I can always tell the kind of company, even when I'm talking about consulting, and they're looking, they're like, oh, well, I didn't see. Where did you go to school? I'm like, I didn't, motherfucker. And it doesn't matter. So you will understand what a company values by what they ask you. And also, if somebody hasn't taken the time to review your resume, to know about your experience, that's a sign that they are not either taking your candidacy seriously or that they're just a shitty.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (23:26)
hahahaha

Lauren Alvarez (23:44)
hiring manager. And I've experienced both many times over, but there is nothing ruder to me than having someone unprepared getting on an interview. It takes 40 seconds for you to do a quick scan of their LinkedIn at minimum. But don't ask somebody, if you're in a position where you're hiring, if you're in a position where you're interviewing, do not ask somebody to chronologically review their resume for you.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (23:46)
Amen.

Lauren Alvarez (24:08)
It's frankly insulting and it's a waste of your time. It's a waste of their time. And it's not actually going to help. If everything on their resume, and there are ways to have your resume tell the story of where you want to go versus what you've done, because who wants to hang out in the past? But I think that there is so much about it that you could actually, instead of going through chronologically, just relating your experiences. And I'm a big believer, I'd love to talk with you about cover letters because I'm actually kind of allergic to cover letters. And so I have my...

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (24:23)
Exactly.

Yeah! Wow!

Lauren Alvarez (24:37)
I know, I have my own approach. I think of it as an elevator pitch. It's probably what you're calling a cover letter too, but I just know from being in recruiting for so long, there's a lot of times they don't get read. And I know that's gonna make somebody cry a little bit when they think about how much time they've spent on it. But I like to, I'll tell you my approach and that I wanna hear your approach because I think that there's good measure in both, right?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (24:48)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, and in general, like, this is such a fun game of catch because I know you're on the side of HR and I like come from the trenches as someone who just like kind of bumbled their way along like figuring out how to negotiate and was like, oh shit, my friends. No, but seriously, like I realized when I was at Inc, all the business books were written by white men. My friends weren't talking about this kind of advice.

Lauren Alvarez (25:13)
Hardly bumbling, Alison.

Oh yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (25:26)
My friends weren't brunching and talking about, you know, salary ranges and how we could get ahead. You know, people are more likely to take care of themselves with Botox than to hire a career coach. Like, it's one of those things that people need to figure out what's going to get them ahead, what's going to get them where they want to go. And I think that... Oh no, I lost my train of thought.

Lauren Alvarez (25:51)
I think, okay, let me tell you, here's my thought on like the elevator pitch. It's three parts. It's like, what is industry acceptable? Starting off there, it's like, what do you do? Hello, what do you do? And then the second part is I think specific to the company and that's one to two sentences of like, let's say it's a startup, you're like.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (26:02)
Mm-hmm.

Lauren Alvarez (26:11)
I thrive in fast-paced environments. I'm super nimble. I've done X, Y, Z, and I'm really excited about these three things about the company. Great. And then part three is what sets you apart. What makes you different? What makes you that bitch? I mean, honestly. And really, it's a proclamation. It's like, I am this person. And that could be what you said, referencing past experiences. It could be referencing kind of

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (26:26)
Mm-hmm.

Lauren Alvarez (26:34)
inside information that you've cleaned about the company that is important to them and what you can pull together that you've done. But if it feels fully aspirational, talking about why you're really great at coming into new environments, while none of your roles that you've held have, you've never had the same role twice, you know, talking about that, I think, puts you in a really good position. So that's like my, that's my vision of a cover letter. What's your vision of a cover letter? Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (26:49)
Okay.

That's so interesting. Yeah, I'm gonna say mine's gonna be a little controversial next to yours, but let's go. So I start with the assumption that 80% of jobs come through networking. So anything you touch, whether it's your resume, LinkedIn, case studies of your work, portfolio, cover letter, that is just a marketing plan for you. So whatever tools you have to get in front of people that you can briefly and succinctly

Lauren Alvarez (27:00)
I like it. Let's go.

Hmm.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (27:25)
and persuasively make your point about why you're a good fit, you should take them. And so people like easy apply on LinkedIn or don't send a cover letter. I just look at them and I'm like, in a sea of applicants, in a time where so many layoffs are happening, how do you stand out? And I know not everybody reads them, but if they come through a reference and the reference reads them, and by the way,

Lauren Alvarez (27:44)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (27:53)
we should let everyone know that when you get referenced in through someone, that person gets paid if you stay there. So they are motivated to be your reference through networking, right? But let's go back. Cover letters. So this is how I do them. First of all, you identify someone in your network that you can get it into the hands of. Second of all, you make it really like designed almost like an advertorial from the magazine days.

I will describe what that looks like. So it's very simple. Hi, my name is Alison. I'm so excited to apply to join this team as a whatever. Here are the three reasons why I'm a perfect fit. This is where it's really easy to scan. You have three reasons and a story underneath each one. How do you get those reasons? By scanning the job application,

Lauren Alvarez (28:47)
Mm.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (28:52)
finding the keywords, finding what are the three top things they're gonna be looking for to check off the box that you not only know how to do, but have a story and example with quantifiable results of the time that you did it. So I think this process of putting this one, two, three, three reasons why cover letter together also strengthens how you're gonna do an interview process because you'll know your shit. You have already done the work.

Lauren Alvarez (29:19)
Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (29:21)
of imagining how do I show up as the best candidate? How am I gonna stand out?

Lauren Alvarez (29:27)
I love that. And I think that that's really interesting because we are kind of breaking it down similarly into like three parts, but I like that you're attaching a story to each part. And I think that does further it. I think that also it's a good reminder to yes, leverage your network. Like I can't tell you how many times I've had people be like, oh, well, I just felt bad. Like I know there's so many people out. Listen.

there are so many white men in my inbox of like, hey, we never worked together, but like I saw that you know, like my friend's cousin and you guys are connected on LinkedIn. And so I'm sending you a DM on your private Instagram, but I thought maybe you could like put me up for this job at the place you used to work. And I'm like, seriously? So like, if, if yeah, it's like, it's like, if you, if you feel like you can't reach out to somebody who you used to work with.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (30:02)
Oh my God. Kid. Ha ha.

Lauren Alvarez (30:12)
Please just play back that sound bite of what I said, and I swear it happens to me, I bet it happens to you, Alison, at least three times a month. And that's an underestimation.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (30:23)
It's kind of insane. Yeah, I think that what we have to remember about networking is it's about give and get. And you can't come from a place of wanting something, but you also need to not hide your ask. So it's a little bit of a different kind of email when you're asking someone to connect you about a job.

You want to come out and say, you know, be a human, say, Happy New Year or whatever is going to connect you to them. You want to say, remind them of who you are and then tell them straight up what you want from them. Don't hide their ask. Then you can always have one sentence that something you think would help them, like a resource, an article you read, whatever, and say, also I saw this thing and thought of you.

Lauren Alvarez (30:59)
Yes.

Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (31:21)
Here's the cliff notes, one sentence. You know? And I think that that's the way you provide value and then people will see you as valuable and then they'll help you. Because at the end of the day, we all know the struggle is real, right? People wanna help each other. You just have to make it easy on them. So like just as easy as like writing a blurb about yourself that someone else can share. Like that's super, super important.

Lauren Alvarez (31:23)
I love that.

Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (31:48)
I think both of us as coaches might agree, you can tell me if you don't. LinkedIn can be kind of a cesspool, but it's super important to be in the, yes, but it's super important to be as part of the yellow pages of the internet, right? But it doesn't match to how people's careers appear now. It shows a linear path that's not everybody. It doesn't let you move stuff around. It doesn't have really great storytelling.

Lauren Alvarez (31:54)
Oh, totally agree. Yes, also agree.

Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (32:18)
tools, you know, and it's not the place. So you need to make those things and share them through your network. The other thing besides cover letters and resumes and LinkedIn that I work with people is making a personal deck to present to people of why they would be good at a job. When I do that, I really dig into what their wins were. What can we do as case studies, breaking it down into what was the problem?

Lauren Alvarez (32:30)
Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (32:46)
what was the strategy that I did and what were the results. And if you can do that again, if you can always look through the lens of how am I gonna help this company's bottom line, you are gonna win a lot of people over in the interview process.

Lauren Alvarez (32:56)
Mm.

I love that. I also think it's interesting, because you refer to your marketing materials, like your resume, your cover letter, these things as like marketing materials. I mean, I also believe in like, obviously if you're creative, but if you're not a creative, you could make a website. Canva is a great tool, Squarespace has great templates. You could easily put this information on a website. So you don't have to have a whole presentation if someone isn't gonna give you the time.

but you could put that in your signature, you could put that in the email. Hey, when you have a moment, like I, you know, on Canva you can create like a custom link for somebody with a password. Hey, I made a deck about why I'd be a great person for XYZ company and you know, I'm excited for you to let me know what you think.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (33:30)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And also it's good to think outside the box of LinkedIn. Like, I can't tell you how many jobs and clients I've gotten off of Instagram by having genuine relationships with people and knowing how to promote myself and what I offer. So I think that's something that's, that sometimes people don't tap into. Like I teach at Miami Ad School as well. And I always tell my students, like put your creative director in your Instagram profile. That way you can reach out to your heroes.

Lauren Alvarez (33:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (34:12)
and say, I'd love to meet with you, and then they can see your work. They can see your point of view, your lens on life, and how you express yourself with design, creative copy, whatever it is. And they will want to meet with you if you have genuine engagement with them, right? And don't act like a stalker, obviously, too. But I think it's one of those things that people miss out is like using, you know,

Lauren Alvarez (34:33)
Right.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (34:41)
Even TikTok now, people are using that to get jobs too. And there's companies out there that really will appreciate that entrepreneurial spirit. And the fact that you're just reaching out cold maybe to someone will show them that you have the determination of someone they want working for them.

Lauren Alvarez (34:51)
Yeah.

I love that. I mean, let's talk a little bit about social media because I think that, you know, there is, you know, I definitely have gone back and forth on personally, do I have a private profile? Do I have a public profile? When I was launching this podcast, it was like, is this a separate profile on social media? Am I starting from zero? Is this? And I chose to, and I like to keep a little bit of separation. I also have realized that, you know, there were times where I would meet with clients and they had very obviously gone onto my, you know,

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (35:12)
Ehhhh

Lauren Alvarez (35:28)
social media. I had a client that I was interviewing with and it was maybe I was a couple months postpartum but I was ready to get back to work in the capacity that I felt comfortable, which is personally it's only your business. You know when you're ready. It's nobody else. And this person brought up very casually about kids, didn't ask me directly, do you have children? Also, hey, that's illegal. They can't ask you that. But I mentioned, oh yeah, I have a baby and I immediately regretted it.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (35:43)
Yeah.

illegal.

Lauren Alvarez (35:57)
because I just, the whole conversation became about me as a parent and it was like, how old is your baby? And I panicked and actually I lied. I said he was older than he was, cause I didn't know, I was just like, this feels weird. Like what if you think it's too soon for me to be taking something on? I got really self-conscious because like, hey, even as coaches, like we get in our own heads and we start to think these things. And then what was really horrible is that,

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (36:14)
Bye bye.

Oh yeah.

Lauren Alvarez (36:22)
She obviously had looked at my Instagram, obviously had seen the birth announcement of my son. And about 20 minutes later, she was like, your son's Jordan, right? And I had full body, just terrible. I just felt so icky after that. I was like, ew, you like basically looked at it and instead of just saying, I saw you recently had a baby, congratulations, just be a human. You instead made me feel really weird about the fact that I had a kid and that you had like done this deep dive on my personal life.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (36:32)
Bye!

Lauren Alvarez (36:52)
I don't know if that was their way of connecting, but it really put me off. And I immediately, like hours later, was just like, hey, I don't wanna move forward and considering working together. I just don't think it's a good match. But it was really wild. So.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (36:56)
Yeah!

I don't think, yeah, I don't think that everyone's for everyone, you know, and that's something that everyone needs to decide, you know, what is their bottom line, not just the company's bottom line, right? And it sounds like that was not a good fit for you. It's funny when it comes to comes to social media. I am like, crazy transparent because I think it's important.

Lauren Alvarez (37:21)
Yeah.

Ha ha ha!

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (37:35)
at least in the communication I have with the people that are my audience at least, that they know that A, mental health is important and that that's something that's really prominent in my life and that I really encourage people to take care of themselves on the job hunt because it can be really, really hard for a lot of people, especially right now after being laid off.

Lauren Alvarez (37:56)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (38:05)
or you know, or even if you're left at a company and everyone else around you was laid off and your scope just became like crazy, right? But I think that people need to know what is going to make them happy. What is going to be a right fit for them, you know?

Lauren Alvarez (38:29)
Yeah, totally. And I think personally, like I'm just taking time to be private and I think that's okay. Sometimes it's good to like pull things back for yourself and just be like, you know, this is just for me. And you can un-privatize at any time. Like take a beat. If you need a break fully, then take a break. And I think the same thing, like let's talk a little bit about there's so much available talent. There's layoffs. I mean, I was even laid off. Like I get it. I know you were laid off earlier in your career. You've been there.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (38:40)
I agree.

Mmm.

Lauren Alvarez (38:56)
I think that knowing that there is so much available talent, I would love to talk about not letting that be the definition of someone, because I think that it really, especially as women, I think it can really fuck with our confidence. I mean, I think it can really make you start to feel like, oh gosh, maybe it was like me, or maybe, first of all, from an HR standpoint, when reductions in force, which is the internal way of saying a layoff, or organizational change, change management, when these things happen,

Oftentimes it's not personal. Yes, if there are people who are not performing and they're on performance improvement plans, you're at risk. If there are people who are, you know, obviously not performing for a sustained amount of time, you're at risk. But oftentimes it's looking at something from a departmental standpoint. It's looking at how many people do we have in this level? How many people do we have in this salary range? How many people do we have? Do we have this work? Does this align with the company roadmap? There's a lot of considerations. And I've been in many rooms where

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (39:48)
Mm-hmm.

Lauren Alvarez (39:55)
I'm looking at who's being laid off and it's really, really difficult. So I don't think that there's, I don't know the ins and the outs of every company, but my belief is that there are people who are cringing when they are in the room making these decisions because they are incredibly difficult, they are painful, and they kind of pull on all sides of your human as far as being a humane individual, knowing that someone's gonna be losing their job. Being on the receiving end of that, obviously, you don't feel that in the moment, you're just like,

Fuck you, you just lit me off.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (40:25)
Yeah, but you know what, one of the biggest things I talk about all the time is like, you have to be ready for that moment. If you're an employee at will, you need to be ready for that moment in a couple ways. One, you need to like know your wins and have like a career management document that has screenshots of things that, I know that's like a legal thing or whatever, but if you're gonna make case studies, you need to know if you're like in a vet plan or how many people came, you know, how much was the sponsorship?

Lauren Alvarez (40:32)
Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (40:54)
Whenever the quantifiable metrics are going to be for your job, you need to know that because you're not going to be able to open your computer again. And it's important to do that. Two, people don't know that you can sometimes negotiate severance. And I only learned this, again, I joke, through my experience in the trenches. I tried it once. I had a good reason behind it. And I stated it.

Lauren Alvarez (41:02)
Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (41:22)
clearly and said that I wanted more severance and I got it. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna teach other people how to do this too. So it's funny, like just the other day, I saw someone post that they were having big layoffs at pitch work, right? Like I think for some of them, they can be asking for maybe more health coverage continuance or

Lauren Alvarez (41:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (41:51)
maybe at different companies, it might be like to get paid out for your vacation days, or your stock was about to vest, maybe they can make it up somewhere else. I think it's always worth asking and taking a beat and reading the paperwork and thinking about your value of not having anything to lose in asking after a layoff. I know that layoffs are traumatizing. I joked with you before we even got on about how...

Lauren Alvarez (42:03)
Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (42:20)
When I was working at Rolling Stone, they had like a security guard walk me out. Like it was so embarrassing. I can't even tell you. Um, but, and at my dream job that I thought was my dream job. But I think that people just need to be ready that if it happens, know how to deal with it and be prepared to read it over and negotiate.

Lauren Alvarez (42:45)
I mean, staying ready, I was just, I was actually just DMing with someone who I will be excited to walk up on the show, in a few weeks actually, which I'm so stoked about, but we were talking about just kind of that readiness of like at the ready, when someone hits you up and they're like, hey, do you wanna do this thing? I asked them to come on the show and within 14 minutes, I had like a dossier with like the dream conversation that they wanted to have that they had just been noodling on.

unbeknownst that I was gonna ask them to be on a podcast. So outside of your resume and your cover letter, think about what your aspirations are. What do you actually wanna be doing, you know?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (43:22)
Yeah, I have a lot of things. I think that one of the biggest things that I aspire for is what is this new brand of feminist activism? What I'm doing, I consider to be a culture jam. Like, I don't know if people read AdBusters back in the day and know what I'm talking about, but I try to be creative about shedding light on the fact that-

people need to ask for more money, right? I think that girl boss feminism, the pink feminism, the millennial pink feminism or whatever, is Barbie pink, yeah, that was true feminism, well, we can, yeah. But that gives people cringe now, right? They don't want that. So as you said earlier, redefining what success means,

Lauren Alvarez (44:01)
Not Barbie Pink, that was true feminism. Yeah.

Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (44:19)
is so important to the conversation for me of what a modern feminist brand should be. Because we're all coming from different places and it's not about getting the gold watch from a company anymore at all. And it should be celebrated that, you know, people who are reaching like 40 years old, 50 years old, 60 years old are reinventing themselves, you know, or...

Lauren Alvarez (44:27)
Yes.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (44:47)
or running that business they always wish to run, or consulting for companies and being a seed investor in companies they believe in, whatever it might be.

Lauren Alvarez (44:57)
Yeah, and it's not about staying on to get the gold watch. It's about buying your own gold watch, right? Like as you said that, I was like, don't we all know the watch that we wanna buy? So like, let's get you there, right?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (45:02)
Right.

Oh my gosh. What's the one with the crazy numbers that everybody wants right now? I don't remember. Yes, yes, thank you. Thank you, yeah. Well, yeah.

Lauren Alvarez (45:11)
Well, I mean, is it the Cartier crash that's like a million dollars? Yeah. Well, we'll just, we'll pick up a couple of those. Be, see you at Cartier. Um, I think that, you know, I think it's so important. And one thing about pivoting is like, it's never too late. You're never too old. You're never, you know, too, too pigeonholed into one industry. And I think also, you know, one thing that you talked about, you know, when we were coming up with like things that you wanted to share, and also I will say, as far as like knowing what you want to talk about,

far and above like one of the most prepared guests I've ever had on the show, but you also, the things you sent me, sent me firing on all cylinders of like, I just felt so hyped to get together. I just have to say, it was like so fun. You talked about mentorship and why it's important to have mentors throughout your career and how to find mentors regardless of your age, regardless of your experience. What guidance can you give there? And can you share anything about your own mentors?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (45:49)
Uhhhhhh

Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where I think people think about it early on in their career. I need a mentor. And they maybe get their professor to mentor them or something like that. But for me, throughout my career, it's been important to have people who I look up to who map out what I aspire to be, whether that's through like...

Lauren Alvarez (46:12)
Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (46:34)
educational values, family values, knowing things that I don't know. And you and I talked about this, having a personal board of directors, like having that lens on things. I have a mentor who is a lawyer. We talk about crazy stuff about negotiation that I didn't have any idea about when it comes to contracts and creatives and what they own and what they should ask for. She's a great mentor. I started off in the music business.

Lauren Alvarez (46:43)
Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (47:04)
with working in Athens, Georgia, under two entrepreneurial women running the 40 watt and a record label. I learned what it meant to hustle in an industry that was not easy for women. I had great mentors in the magazine world who taught me how to fund big ideas through sponsorships and partnerships. And I continue to make those mentors just your guests that you just had, Cindy Gallop.

I was at a one club event and I saw her speak and I walked up to her afterwards and I'll give you the advice that I did. Again, I learned a show from the trenches that I just went up to her and said, I'd love to get your email. I'd love to take you to coffee. I found what you said to be so interesting and really aligned with what I think about as well. And not only did I do that while she was talking and they did the Q&A, I asked an interesting question.

So she remembered my face when I went up to her afterwards. So I think, again, it has to do with showing value, then you'll get value from people. So I asked a good question. So how did I meet Cindy Gallop? How did I end up in her cool apartment, seeing this crazy taxidermy of Ricky Tiki Tavi on her coffee table? I asked, again, it goes back, same as negotiation. I had the courage.

Lauren Alvarez (48:13)
I love that.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (48:31)
to ask for it and to just be confident enough to make it till I make it and, you know, figure it out and ask good questions along the way.

Lauren Alvarez (48:43)
Yeah. And I also love that too, because with the courage, you know, also comes, you know, a realization of who you are and what you're deserving of. And I think, you know, imposter syndrome is a topic we talk about a lot. And I think, you know, I'll probably never be done talking about imposter syndrome because I think it comes to all of us. But I think just reminding yourself of like, you're so deserving of being in that same space.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (48:59)
Mm.

Lauren Alvarez (49:06)
I think that knowing that is something that you want, you're like, I want to talk to Cindy Gallop. Great. Like you just went and did it. And those moments where you're like, oh shit, like I'm doing this thing. When it pays off, it underlines that like, oh yeah, I did that thing. I mean, I still do that. And I forget to like pause and to recognize like, oh wait, that was really cool. Because I'm so like onto the next. And I'm like, hold on, let me just like go back and read that email again. Oh my God, that just happened. That's so cool.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (49:33)
That is so cool. Yeah, actually to circle back to what I wish, what I want, what I dream of. My company is called The Finishing School. The whole idea behind it is that we're never finished learning. I did a play off words because I thought it was, I grew up in the South where manners were a big deal. Women were taught to be a lot more subservient. I was not, because I...

Lauren Alvarez (49:59)
Were you a debutante? OK. Just checking.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (50:03)
I was not a debutante. I was actually rejected from what the Cotillion or whatever. So I could never be a part of that. But, um, yeah. But I think that it's...

It's one of those things that you have to figure out where you belong, where, what, what are your values again?

Lauren Alvarez (50:31)
Yeah. And I think also like talking about the finishing school, talking about what you've created, you know, you leverage a lot of your own experience. You also now have a lot of experience of other people. You know, what do you see as being kind of the point of entry? If someone's like, I think I do need a coach. I think I, Hey, I think I want to talk to Alison. Like, how do people work with you? Like, what's the best way to go about it?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (50:52)
Yeah, so it's actually really interesting. I've been doing this for 10 years. It was a side hustle that started out with me teaching at General Assembly a class called How to Be the Beyoncé of Your Career. And it sold out twice a month for like two and a half years. And so I opened up the finishing school because I was like, I gotta, I gotta keep doing this. It's, it's what's lighting me up. I love doing this. So I took clients one on one for a very long time.

Now I'm launching like a real school, legit, where you can come in and be of orientation. You can come to our pup rallies. You can get a chance to meet with professors. And I wanted to build something, again, so people could build their own board of directors, but also have time to really workshop together and learn together what they should be doing.

and also gain confidence in community and have accountability. And so people come to me at all different phases. Some people will be like, oh, they just gave me a contract. Can you help me negotiate? They come in late in the game sometimes to me. Sometimes I can help them. Sometimes I can't. It depends what they've said so far. Right. But some people come to me in the beginning and they don't even know where they want to go because they haven't been able to figure out.

how to articulate their wins and their strengths and what kinds of companies maybe just are the brands they invite into their life, whether it's like, they're really into Glossier lip balm, or they always book travel through Airbnb. I think that people need to think beyond job boards, think beyond LinkedIn, and think, where do I actually wanna work? Where would I really align and

Lauren Alvarez (52:41)
Mm.

Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (52:49)
How do I actually make that happen? So I act as almost a marketing manager for your campaign to get that job. And that means I'm coming in, helping your materials have better storytelling, just like I did in the magazine world. You know, telling the stories when I was at Inc. magazine of entrepreneurs and getting sponsors to align with them, that's exactly what I do now. I help people.

create their storytelling so that a job will buy them, if that makes sense.

Lauren Alvarez (53:23)
I love that. Yeah. And I think that, you know, knowing that people kind of forget about that, like you, I think you referred to it as like personal integrated marketing. I'm like, what is your angle? Like, how are we approaching this? And I also think that like that, knowing that there's so much burnout, there's so much that comes from like giving energy to your own job search, just having a partner, someone who's like got your back and is like, we're going to do this. Okay, I know you have that big meeting. Like, let's talk about it. Like, stop.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (53:32)
Yes.

Lauren Alvarez (53:50)
you know, stop squirreling away and, you know, worrying about it. Let's just talk about it.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (53:54)
like if it's the first time you've ever heard yourself give an elevator pitch or answer a question for an interview, then you're already screwing up. You need to like invite a friend over, you know, get a ball in line, whatever, enjoy it, I don't care what you're doing, sit and practice interviewing if you're not gonna have a career coach. Like it's so important that the first time you hear the words come out of your mouth isn't in front of...

the hiring manager. And I think people don't always realize how important that kind of practice is. One of my favorite things that I'm teaching people right now is how to use chat GPT for the job search. And one of the things that I have them do is put in a job description into the chat GPT and then prompt it with what questions can I expect in the interview for this job description. And it comes back.

Lauren Alvarez (54:21)
Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (54:49)
I'm not saying, it comes back with all of these questions, right? I'm not saying to have chat GPT, write your resume, your LinkedIn, your elevator pitch, cover letters, whatever. I'm saying prompt it in the right way to help you be as smart and prepared as you can for the interview.

Lauren Alvarez (55:07)
I really liked that. And I also think, you know, I recently facilitated interviews for a client of mine and I was so impressed with the candidate who came in and just had brilliant questions that they asked. And, you know, I always remind candidates, you're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you. You know, and that is like, that is above all what you're doing. But they came in and they really, it felt so confident, it felt really natural. They had to have practiced.

But I was just so excited that they were asking these really provoking questions that were thoughtful, that were relevant to the founders, that were about the core values. And they even had the confidence. I remember it was like almost again, and they said, I just have one more question. And I was like, I love not getting caught up in the moment of people trying to wrap you up. And you're like, I got another one. One second, please. And I just thought that the confidence that was shown, it was so thoughtful. It was so.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (55:55)
Mm-hmm.

Lauren Alvarez (56:01)
It made me, I had this moment of pride. I didn't even prep the candidate. I was like, I'm just so proud that somebody's showing up like this. I think it matters. And you also talk a little bit about thank you notes and the importance of them. And I can say it used to be 50-50. I think it's actually less than now as a former hiring manager, also as someone who's been in the recruiting world for a long time, HR.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (56:13)
Oh gosh.

Lauren Alvarez (56:27)
I think it's like 50-50. And then even when I've sent them, there's not always responses, which is interesting. So talk to me about the expectations of sending a thank you note and then best practices.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (56:29)
Hmm.

Yeah!

So I think there's a difference between sending thank you notes within the networking world and sending thank you notes during an interview process. Right. There's for me, it's so important within the networking world, like say that you're go to some kind of, um, networking event where someone's speaking, like I did with Cindy Gallop, right. Being able to write them and say, thank you for sharing and evangelizing the advice you had or who you was talking about standing up for whatever it was.

thank them and thank them for, you know, inspiring you, then ask them for what you want. So I always say, and then once you get a meeting with them, a digital coffee meeting with them, where you're just talking on Zoom for half an hour, like you have to send a thank you note and provide value with them. Like I said, sending them a link, sending them something that they'll be interested in, you know, you have to provide value to them too. So

Lauren Alvarez (57:19)
that.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (57:37)
That would be on the thank you note, like I'm a student and a cool speaker came in, I should send them a thank you note. Someone helped me get a job, I should send them a thank you note. But then there's the people who are writing thank you notes during the interview process for HR that interviewed you. I, for hiring managers, I've heard from other recruiters that if they don't get it within the first like hour that they are not feeling good about the candidate because

There's such a quick ping on Slack. What did you think of her? What did you think of her that, and it depends on the size of the company, right? Like how they're communicating HR wise. Like I think that people need to realize, you know, startups in stealth mode who hire consultants to be their people person, you know, might not have, uh, have, you know, the guardrails up all the time in the right way. Right. But.

Lauren Alvarez (58:15)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (58:36)
I do think that thank you notes are important because I'm a big believer in gratitude. And I really do think when you put gratitude out there, even if it's lost in the inbox nowhere, you did it and you put out some good karma and hopefully it's going to come back to you.

Lauren Alvarez (58:42)
Yeah.

I really like that. And I think that there's something really smart about just putting it out there. Just like you, you know, especially if it's on zoom, like you finished the call before you close your laptop, take like 14 seconds and just send a quick thank you. And if it's through a recruiter, you could also send them a note and be like, Oh my gosh, I loved my meeting with Alison. Thank you so much for setting that up. If it's a coordinator, like

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (59:06)
Thank you.

Lauren Alvarez (59:20)
recognize the recruiting coordinators. They are the people who are really shouldering so much calendar, juggling, and last minute changes, and making sure everyone's schedules are managed. People actually sign on to the meetings. Just a little bit of gratitude, like you said, I think goes a long way. And I actually, there have been times where it's come down to a couple of people, and they did really well, and were making a decision. One person sent thank you notes, and the other one didn't. Literally, the person who sent thank you notes.

has gotten the job. I've been in the rooms for those conversations.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (59:50)
See, I hear that. It just depends on the company and like, and you know, where they are and where their values are. So I just think in general, like I'm someone who like, wakes up some mornings and makes a gratitude list just to like feel grounded, you know? So I think that practicing gratitude in a job hunt with however...

Lauren Alvarez (59:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:00:15)
However you can, and I think the best way to do it is to, throughout your career, whether you're job hunting or you're in a job, is to have digital coffees with people. 30-minute Zooms, really easy. Make it easy on them. Setting us, you know, if you're the one asking, setting it up, doing the Google Calendar invite, being buttoned up, having good questions. But like, there's so much karma that can come from that. And you should.

Always be giving because you never know when you're going to have to take.

Lauren Alvarez (1:00:49)
I think that's really great feedback. I can also say as someone who, and I'm sure it's similar for you, when you're a coach, you're constantly giving to other people. You talk a lot about self-care in the job process, but tell us a little bit, what are some of your self-care acts that you take? Because again, when you're putting it out for other people all the time, the energy, the vibes, the hype, you also have to replenish. So what gets you there?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:01:14)
Totally. So for me, I love journaling. That's a big, big thing for me. I wish that I was a yoga girl or said that I liked sports balls or anything like that. I'm more of an indoor kid, even though I live in Miami and everybody looks like a workout queen. But I really think that

Lauren Alvarez (1:01:28)
Ha ha!

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:01:42)
as not just a practice, but as a community practice through a community identified on Instagram, just called journaling classes. And people get together and they, you know, have prompts. And then sometimes they share their writing and there was, there's just this element.

of not doing it by myself, but doing it with others who were in different parts of their life, different ages, different ambitions. That's been a really important self care for me, but I'd say DBT therapy. I shout out to DBT therapy and meds. And then I'd say, you know, finding things that give you peace. For me, I love digital sound baths.

Lauren Alvarez (1:02:07)
Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:02:30)
I listen to and go to the events that Pause and Expand does, and I go to a lot of creative mornings as self-care because I tell people in the job hunt, you have to make your own schedule, right? And if you want to do self-care, a really great way is to take these free creative mornings classes that are called field trips. And there are anything from like horoscopes for your career to...

Lauren Alvarez (1:02:43)
Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:02:56)
how to make a mood board to a sound bath, right? That's how I found out about it. So if you pick those classes in between having the goal of reaching out to eight people a week, applying to X amount of jobs, you will build a schedule that will constantly inspire each other and you won't feel so lost in your job hunt. Cause it can get really hard for people. And I have to sit down with people and sometimes imagine like,

Lauren Alvarez (1:03:22)
Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:03:25)
What will help you right now? Is it making a playlist to let you wallow when you need to wallow? Is it making a playlist to help you get out of your funk when you need to get out of your funk? Is it lighting an orange candle? Because if you know about candle magic, an orange candle brings success for your career. And just having that moment to meditate with the flame. Is it being able to channel your creativity into making? Because...

Sometimes just like I said, I believe in gratitude. I believe in creativity. And when you create things in the universe, just kind of come together. And I don't know, I learned creativity since my mom was a kindergarten teacher. I learned the value of creativity for so long. But once I was pregnant and had my baby, Edie, I realized that creativity and creation all-

momentum and propelled each other. And I think that's when I started coming up with more ideas for my business and more ideas for side projects and more ideas for, I mean, hell, I want to launch my own rolling papers. Like I come up with shiny object syndrome, but like, it's all connected. They're going to be called highly professional. yeah. So, so I'd say, you know, it's all connected to the finishing school.

Lauren Alvarez (1:04:29)
Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:04:50)
It all makes sense. It's part of my personal brand, you know? So I think you just have to come up with what, yeah, works for you.

Lauren Alvarez (1:05:02)
love that. No, and I think you know, it's so interesting. I actually found like when I was pregnant, I wasn't like, I'm my earth mama, like grounded, I was just kind of like, okay, cool. Like whatever I'm pregnant, I'm like growing a human life, like keep it moving. Not in the sense that like I didn't care, but it just like felt like, oh, yeah, this is just like a thing that like, I'm doing but also like, I'm over here grinding, the inspiration, the creative, like, ideas that I had, and that have continued, you know, since

were just amazing and actually like this podcast, I finally, you know, was able to, I had been noodling on this for so long. I'd been wanting to do it. And I was like, if not now, when, right? Like I had that whole like idea and it was so interesting because my son was born at 37 weeks, which is a little early. And the podcast trailer launched, it was scheduled already. Okay. But it was launched the day he was born. And like what? Yeah, like what a fucking like moment. It was just

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:05:38)
Yeah!

Wow.

Birth? Double birth.

Lauren Alvarez (1:05:57)
literally double birth same day that Wednesday was like the big one. And it was like, okay. I mean, luckily, I had the foresight to have several episodes, you know, pre-recorded in the can, so to speak, because wow. But it also was like, oh my God, I did it. And oh my God, I did it. I had this baby. And oh my God, my life is so cool. And here we go. And I think for me, like adding to the momentum,

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:06:18)
Yeah!

Lauren Alvarez (1:06:24)
feels so good. And I just had to say that because you talked about also having Evie and then having all these ideas. And we are so capable of these multitudes of holding both a child and a million ideas and bringing all of that into the world. And so I just have to say that.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:06:43)
Yeah, I think being a mom gives you superpowers. I don't know about you, but like the focus I can have in the minimal amount of time that I get now, like is like more amazing than I could ever do before. And I'm excited to do my work. That doesn't mean that like I hate my child, but I really do appreciate the time that I'm.

Lauren Alvarez (1:06:53)
Yes.

Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:07:11)
working and focusing on my passion and my purpose. And I also appreciate the time that I'm sitting with her reading a book. And like, I feel like people have to imagine how to prepare themselves. Because you just said you recorded four podcasts before you had it. You had the baby, right? 10 podcasts? Wow, that's amazing. Okay, so you thought about, and you did the work.

Lauren Alvarez (1:07:30)
10. Yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:07:39)
to figure out what needs to prepare me for success as a mom. And I have a lot of clients come to me at that same point, and the biggest thing we do is make their portfolio. We arm them with the tools so as soon as they're ready, they can hit the ground running, but they have superpowers. And I feel like I saw, I won't say the agency, but I saw this thing the other day. It was a job for a mom intern.

an agency was inviting back women to come and join their agency as a return to workforce mom. And I was like, why the F do we need to be interns? We just gave birth to humans. not to mention we were people before we had the baby, right?

Lauren Alvarez (1:08:30)
That's right.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:08:32)
So the thought that I saw that, I was like, OMG, this is wild. And of course, of course though, it was celebrated on LinkedIn. Like it was this chance for moms to have their big break that don't normally get back in. And I was like, are you giving any special benefits to these people? Is childcare being covered?

Lauren Alvarez (1:08:38)
I wish you would put them on blast, but yeah.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:09:00)
No, it was about the opportunity and they get an internship stipend? No, no.

Lauren Alvarez (1:09:06)
Okay, also, moms should be hired in as minimum directors, if not group directors, because the amount of multitasking that we can take on, and this is something that my best friend told me about, who, it's really cool, she had her second baby like a few weeks after I had my first, which was really fun, so we got to be pregnant together. That's a dream, I didn't know I had. But it was really cool, because she's like, oh, just wait till you're a mom, like wait till you have the baby, and your ability to multitask, how much better you'll be at the things you could do amazingly already.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:09:25)
Eh!

Lauren Alvarez (1:09:36)
It's so true, but moms are the people that should be getting promoted. We're able to contain all these multitudes, oh yeah, and still somehow go to bed and get up and do it all over again the next day. I mean, Alison, what's your morning routine like these days? I'm just curious.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:09:53)
So I get up with Evie a little before seven o'clock. I usually start out by playing her four non-dwands. And then it usually moves to Baby Shark. But I spend time with her reading books. I spend time with her, you know, doing dances and starting the morning with fun.

And I think that that, yes, I'm tired. Yes, her preschool is giving me a different virus every other week, but it has given me so much inspiration and perspective. I do what I do so that her granddaughter will be proud.

Lauren Alvarez (1:10:38)
I mean, I have like the biggest heart eyes right now, like just for you for everything you've said I could probably just talk to you for the rest of the day. I won't because that's very expensive We know how much our time costs, right? But I mean, where can people go to learn more about you Alison?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:10:41)
Hehehe

Mwahahahaha

Yeah, well, I suggest if you want more career advice and you also want more memes, because I love to post a good meme, or you're interested in laughing at messaging about, you know, being a productive pet head. I'm a good person to follow at Alison Taffel Rabinowitz, but yes, that is, like I said, I got a crazy personal Brit. But you can also go to thef

please go sign up for my newsletter. You can hear what kinds of things I'm launching. I've done everything from launching a zine to doing a magic kit to classes all around these topics that we talked about tonight. So please get in touch. Honestly, like more people I can help, the happier I am and the more fulfilled I am.

Lauren Alvarez (1:11:47)
I'm obsessed. What is one final thought you want to leave our listeners with? Cause we've talked about the kitchen sink today. I mean, what, what you got?

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:11:57)
Yeah, I would definitely say how I close all of my classes is that women who open doors for other women will have doors opened for them. And it goes back to my values. It goes back to saying, you know, saying you're saying someone's name in a room full of opportunities. And I have been so lucky in my career that I have been able to have that advantage that I've met.

advocates and mentors. But I went after it myself. I've been going after it since I was 10 years old. I was a news reporter for CNN. I tracks. But I think that every step of my career, from whether it was the music industry, to publishing, to coaching and career coaching, running the finishing school, I had to find a way to communicate.

my value and what I value.

Lauren Alvarez (1:12:57)
Alison, thank you. I just, I am so just blown away. This has been the most energizing. I feel like it was like a hangout conversation. We got to do all of this together. Thank you so much. This has been another episode of Don't Fuck This Up, the podcast answering the ultimate question, how the fuck did you land that cool job? I'm Lauren Alvarez and we will talk to you next week.

Alison Taffel Rabinowitz (1:13:05)
Mmm.