Thilo Mühle's Family Journey with Nautische Instrumente Mühle-Glashütte

Embark on an enchanting narrative as Thilo Mühle, the captivating voice from Mühle-Glashütte, guides us through a legacy built upon precision and adventure. Our latest podcast episode is a tapestry of personal feats and horological history, where Thilo's audacious cycling quest from Germany to Rome mirrors the resilience of the timepieces his family has meticulously crafted for generations. The saga of Mühle-Glashütte unfolds, revealing its transformation from maritime instrument mastery to the creation of iconic watches like the Rescue Timer, surviving the tides of German reunification and the fall of the Berlin Wall.

As we traverse the chronology of Mühle-Glashütte's watchmaking heritage, Thilo unveils stories of innovation and kinship with the automotive industry, while spotlighting the brand's dedication to craftsmanship that has stood the test of time. He candidly discusses the challenges of navigating a turbulent history, from post-war rebuilding to embracing the digital era, all while maintaining an emotional connection with each watch. Thilo's warmth permeates the conversation, emphasizing the power of storytelling in forging a bond between a timepiece and its wearer.

Gazing into the horizon, Thilo shares the strategic vision that steers Mühle-Glashütte towards future horizons, illuminating the brand's thoughtful approach to in-house movements and sustainable growth. We gain insight into the brand's commitment to innovation, serviceability, and customer delight, along with the anticipation of leadership transition as the next generation prepares to uphold the family's watchmaking tradition. Join us for an intimate exploration of how a revered company navigates its legacy into the future, anchored by history yet propelled by the winds of change.

Check out Nautische Instrumente Mühle-Glashütte:
https://www.muehle-glashuette.de/en/

Transcript

Blake Rea: 0:01

Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Lonely Wrist Today. Very, very, very special guest, Thilo Mühle from Mühle Glashütte, Welcome to the show.

Thilo Mühle: 0:15

Hello and best regards from Klaas Hütte.

Blake Rea: 0:19

Yeah, I could tell you've got a little cabin in the back. It looks like there's some mountains behind you in the corner.

Thilo Mühle: 0:31

It is kind of my office. You know, when we construct our new building, so my office was also new and I have uh yeah, the decoration on this wall is like a mountain head and for me it's a feeling like the orbs, you know, because I like the orbs, I like to go hiking and when I close my door so I can see kind of a hut and so I feel me very comfortable, so I can spend my power in the company, and for me to see this is a good, warm feeling it looks beautiful.

Blake Rea: 0:58

I thought for a second, there you're on vacation and I was like oh man, we're doing a podcast.

Thilo Mühle: 1:05

Everybody asked me this where you are. I'm in my office, but I can show you, you know, so you can see it now. This is outside of Rosenthal and this is my my back wall.

Blake Rea: 1:15

It looks great. And so I heard from a mutual friend that you are quite the adventurous guy. That you are quite the adventurous guy. I was heard that you went to Alaska and did like a dog race and then, like you go to Spain and go like scuba diving and you're an avid bicyclist and things like that.

Thilo Mühle: 1:38

Yeah, Of course, I do some experience, like cycling, I'm a cyclist. Before I was a complete mountain biking, but now 90% of my sport activity is road bike and so I do some tours. I did some stupid things. For example, I went one time from Trondheim to oslo in norway in one day, so 19 hours. It's 460 kilometers and, uh, you know, the weather in norway is sometimes not so summertime, so it was a challenging.

Thilo Mühle: 2:17

I did some races here in the alps, which was very strong for me because I'm not heavy, but I'm heavy for a cyclist, you know. So, uh, it was sometimes, um, yeah, a challenge, and my last challenge was a couple of weeks ago. I start with my bike, with my gravel bike, from here, from class, with to go south and then without any destination, you know, at the end I arrived at Roma, capital town of Italy. So it was completely 1,500 kilometers during 12 days, and for me it was a kind to come down a little bit to open my head, my brain again, to have fresh energy, because the business on time is also challenging and so you need the power you know to handle it, and this is very helpful when you are a couple of days alone with you, with your bike and you can enjoy the landscape. You can enjoy the ride, you can hate the ride. Everything is included, you know. So it is fantastic, it is boring, it is good weather, it's raining, so every stage has another character and it was really cool.

Blake Rea: 3:28

What type of bike do you drive? I would assume that it would probably be a BMW, motorcycle or no no, I mean cyclist, means road bike. Oh, okay.

Thilo Mühle: 3:40

Bicycle, yeah, bicycle. I was with my bicycle, by my own power you know, without my bicycle, by my own power. You know, without uh gas with my own power.

Blake Rea: 3:49

That's even more challenging because whenever you said, I mean again, I'm not a vice, I'm not a a motorcyclist, bicyclist, like, so I was thinking oh, cool, like that even makes it more and more bicycle that makes it even more and more impressive.

Thilo Mühle: 4:06

Yeah, Sometimes you can also say I'm stupid, you know to do this.

Blake Rea: 4:17

But for me it was a good time to have new power for the next couple of months. Yeah, yeah, well, thank you so much for taking the time to share with us. I definitely am glad to have you here.

Blake Rea: 4:27

I'm a huge fan of the brand in case you can't tell I got my, my, my rescue timer and uh, and congratulations on the uh, the new rescue timer, which I thought was quite cool, and um kind of jealous that that came out after I picked this one up, which was but yeah, 30 years of Rescue Timers, which is quite an epic Rescue Timers 22 years this year where we introduce it and we have this year our 30th anniversary after my father started with the company new after the reunification.

Blake Rea: 5:02

Ah, okay, okay, so it was 30 years of reunification.

Thilo Mühle: 5:03

Yeah, we celebrate each five. Ah, okay, okay, so it was 30 years of reunification. Yeah, we celebrate each five years a double anniversary. One is when my grand grandfather started with the business it was 1869, robert Bühle and then when my father started after the reunification, because that was a big step for us as a family company to start again after the communist time here in the former East Germany.

Blake Rea: 5:31

That brings us right to our first question. Tell us about Robert and when he had founded the company in 1869. How has that vision for the brand evolved?

Thilo Mühle: 5:46

As you see, what we produced in this part, as Robert Wheeler, when he started he was producing measurement instruments, you know, at the beginning Because the class of the watch industry growing up, a lot of small companies founded, new here in class, and everybody was responsible for his own measurement instruments. And then in this time the people came together and said what can we do? How can we develop the place here in Glashütte to be a big place for the watch industry? And then they look for somebody who is able to produce measurement instruments. Because this is a part that has never changed until now.

Thilo Mühle: 6:24

The accuracy on the parts and the movement is the same like 150 or 175 years ago. Today we have another machines, we have another equipment, but at this time they have also the accuracy was the same, you know. And so he said I do it, because at his apprenticeship he was with Moritz Grossmann, he did his apprenticeship over there and so he also developed there the measurement instruments. And then he started our family business and for me where I'm really proud is at this time they were able to produce a measurement instrument where you can measure 1,000. Still this is 0.001 millimeter and you have also to print the scale in this accuracy and it's for me unbelievable, when you look back in the 19th century, that they are able to do this in the beginning of the 19th century, the beginning of the 19th century. This is like the passion you know to develop things for the future, of what you can use hundreds of years. Also today, you can use it if you want to use it. It is working, you know.

Blake Rea: 7:41

That's crazy. I was in Geneva in January and of course I had to go to the Patek Museum and during the tour they were talking about the Patek watchmakers made the smallest movement possible. They're like that was the biggest challenge for them. If they could make the smallest movement possible, then they could pretty much do anything and that was like mission one for them. If they could make the smallest movement possible then they could pretty much do anything and that was like mission one for them. Obviously they were doing enameling and stuff like that pre but um. But when you push yourself um in terms of engineering, you know that's where you can really kind of backwards engineer the watches, the movements, the. You've got more ability to use that technology and more technical know-how and obviously you know transitioning from those precise measuring instruments. And then you guys did speedometers and rev counters In the 1920s.

Thilo Mühle: 8:47

Our state is Saxony, where we live, you know, and Saxony is a very famous state or place for the car industry. You know, we had, you know, audi. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know the meaning of the four rings of Audi.

Blake Rea: 9:02

I do not.

Thilo Mühle: 9:04

Yeah, it is four different brands. Before it was Auto Union, it was DKW, it was Horsch and it was Wanderer. They came together under the name of Audi. Now Audi is in Bavaria located with the headquarter, but the founder of these four brands was all in Saxony area and with them together we developed, for example, speedometers. And today when you want to buy a horse car you have to pay. I guess from the cheapest is €300,000 to €1 million. So this is a big range because the numbers of course is very limited and it's a high, high-end car. And for this we developed Wanderer.

Thilo Mühle: 9:46

And you can see sometimes, when I was in the Audi Museum in Ingolstadt, on the top level there are the oldest cars and there was two cars inside and where I saw was open was a convertible and there was a clock inside, because we also produce clocks with eight day movements for them and that was written as a robot R dot Müller and Zahn Closeter.

Thilo Mühle: 10:13

So this is my family, you know. So I was there and I was so proud, because a lot of brands in our business they have a heritage but they have not the people anymore which founded the company or which are from the family. You know, we are one of really, um, not too many brands where the family is still in the business and run the business and that's a big uh different and of for this story I'm so proud when I stay or when I stand in front on the car and I was looking inside and I I read the name of my family, you know so, and that it was an audi is a huge company, you know so, and it is a part of my blood, you know, and uh, this is all the emotions where I uh also uh take my power for the business, to run the business yeah, that seems like that would leave a great opportunity for you, because you guys have produced, you know, watches for them or at least timekeeping instruments.

Blake Rea: 11:12

Yeah, and like, for example, I know, for example, mercedes and IWC. Like, if you look at some of the Mercedes cars, they have a little IWC clock and then you just you know, obviously, um, that would be cool to see a mula in an audi again, what's the idea from audi when they introduce a6, um maybe um 15 years ago, like this, but it was not the mechanical anymore, it's electronic.

Thilo Mühle: 11:41

And if you are a supplier of the car industry now it is very difficult. You discuss about cents for the price and then if you are not able to deliver on time, you are close your company. Because when they stop the production for one day and they say you are responsible for this, you have to pay for this, then it's and yeah, then I closed the company. So for this, for this, um, we, we didn't um agree with them and explain them. It's not possible for us because we are a small company and we are not able to handle this, you know so yeah, I mean it would take.

Blake Rea: 12:19

it would take away from your wristwatch production, which is it?

Thilo Mühle: 12:24

is another thing. For example, what we do is on time. When you are an employee which is 40 years, so four zero with the Audi company, then they get a gift from this company and there's a watch from us. It's with the four rings and the bottom we are the yeah, we have our name on the bottom because they want to give it as an Audi gift to them, made by Mule Closet which watch?

Blake Rea: 12:52

is it that you guys use?

Thilo Mühle: 12:54

it's an individual watch. It's not a watch from our collection, so it is really one watch which is only available for Audi wow, so it's not based on like the 29er or anything like that. No, it's a complete own design.

Blake Rea: 13:10

Okay, I need to go get a job at Audi now.

Thilo Mühle: 13:13

No, you cannot buy it, then you only get it. Maybe you can look in the internet and you can give Audi Mühle a watch, then you'll find some watches what we did. But this one is only with the four rings on the dial. Then you're on the right one tell.

Blake Rea: 13:28

Tell us about the shift, obviously, from working in these, uh, these measuring instruments, speedometers. Tell us about the brand as you transitioned into, like wristwatches, like what changed that, that shift in production into wristwatches?

Thilo Mühle: 13:48

yeah, you see, as a, as a family company with this long heritage, you have all the time up and down, you know, you are on the top and then you are happy, then you are down, then you are crying, you know. And after the world war ii the russ Russians closed our company, because when we produce speedometers for military cars then you are involved, you know. And so they closed the company and my grandfather started new in 1945, the company, and then he produced a couple of things. What you needed after a world war, you know, because there was something, nothing available here, because everything was destroyed, for example, they, they, they developed, not developed, they produce. How, how can I explain it in English? You have a white paper and for the school, for the people in the, in the school, if they want to write the capital letters and the small letters and they have no lines, you know, so that you have the dimensions between a capital letter and a small letter, you know, yeah, and they developed or they produce a tooling where you can do on a white paper the line that the people can, the young people can learn to write the right dimensions, for example. And later on we produced movements to measure the pressure until 1972.

Thilo Mühle: 15:16

In 1972 the government took our company because in the GDR East Germany it was not allowed to have your own company anymore. And so my father sometimes now he's 83 now, so he makes the joke he said at the evening I was capitalist and in the morning next day I was director on a solution company. But it was the same company, you know, it was his company. But the government took it over, you know. And then he has a way to the GUB. Gub means Classo de Uhrenbetrieb, which is existing today with the brands Classo Original and Union, class Original and Union. And to make it short, after the reunification my father went out of this company and he started our company new, and at this time we produced ship chronometers. For this reason we had nautical instruments in the name. We also time clock systems for cruise shipping, for example, where you have a mother clock and secondary clocks over the ship or over the vessel.

Thilo Mühle: 16:30

And in 1996, he started to produce West Watches. And the reason why was, you know, mr Blümlein, he was one of the founders of Lange Söhne here in Klausel. After the reunification he spoke with my father and he said, müller, if you can produce marine chronometers, then you have to produce worst watches here in Klauselter, because nobody will ask you. Are you able to produce worst watches if you produce marine chronometers? And then from this point we started to produce the worst watches. And I am here in the company since 2000, now, so 24 years, wow. So this was the reason why we have to shift from measurement instruments speedometers to measurement instruments to measure the pressure, to the worst watches. The reason why is the developing on the on the whole uh world situation here in the germany yeah, yeah it's.

Blake Rea: 17:36

It's something too like. Obviously a lot of people don't understand is glashuta, pretty much during during World War II, was just destroyed. Every, almost 85% of the town was just destroyed, and then it was also my.

Thilo Mühle: 17:56

Glashütte was not destroyed to 85%, it was not the. There was only, I guess, a couple of buildings which was destroyed, but not too much, because it was not so easy, because we are in a valley, you know, in a very tight valley it was not so easy and it was not really important for the Americans or the Russians to or for the British air strikers to come here. You know they destroyed Dresden. But Glashütte has only a couple of buildings which was destroyed, but not too much in Glashütte, but the watch industry was more or less destroyed.

Thilo Mühle: 18:37

The watch industry was more or less destroyed.

Blake Rea: 18:41

There's always different sides of history. And then also I read and this could be inaccurate, but a lot of the factories that were in Glashütte were also used as prisoner camps as well.

Thilo Mühle: 19:08

I don't know this. I because, also for your, for your listener, if they have the possibility to come to germany and to glaseter, we have a really cool museum where, where you see all the steps. I guess there was not too much prisoner here because there was not big factory buildings. You know, there was a smaller one and we call it in Germany Fensterbank industry. That means behind each window there was a small company before the World War II for example, which produced some parts for the watch industry, you know, and then you can see it in the museum, the street, the houses existing today, and then they produce this part, they produce this part, they make hands, they make cases, make balance wheel, balance wheels like this. You know this was the typical industry here in klausur. That was really small companies a lot, and they produce pots for the watch industry wow, yeah, yeah, well, sorry for misspeaking there um, no problem and so obviously, you know, with historical events like war, wars, the reunification of Germany, how have those?

Blake Rea: 20:26

obviously we talked about moving from, you know, maritime instruments to wristwatches, but other than those significant production changes, has it influenced the brand and the family business in any other direction or any other, any other ways?

Thilo Mühle: 20:42

now, yeah, um, you know, if you are, if you run a family, family company, it's uh, it was in the past, it is also today. You know um you have new situations around you.

Thilo Mühle: 20:54

So and then you can try, or you can look for a solution, for a idea, to go another direction or to look that you are run the business also in the future. And each time there is a new challenging. You know it was after the World War Two, it was after the reunification during the GDR East Communist time, all these parts you look what you can do, that you survive. You know, and you could also look a little bit back after or when the beginning was of COVID-19. Everybody of us was surprised that it could be happening in our world and everything was changing like this. You know, like fast, really fast.

Thilo Mühle: 21:37

And then also you have to look what it means for my business. How can I run the business? How can I be successful, um, with this situation. You know that nobody knows what's going on in the next couple of months. You know, and all the governments, you know all the situation. And then I, I guess personally for family, smaller companies, it's a good challenging because we are fast, we have a really fast decision time because there are not too many people where you have to ask. You have a small team and with this team you look forward. What is your meaning. Then you look what you can do and then you follow the way you know this is yeah, this is, I guess, the life, the normal breathing of a family business or family company.

Blake Rea: 22:27

And that's a huge advantage, because when you look at the big boys right, I will call them the big boys of watchmaking the decision time from execution, from idea, from idea to execution is very, very, very long. So, like, if they want to implement a change, it's got to go through these different, different phases.

Blake Rea: 22:49

Um, and the fact is, you can say something if you are a member, a group member, you know, oh yeah yep and then you could, you can say something and say like, hey, this is what I want to do, and then take it to one developer, you know, like one engineer, and then within a few weeks, maybe a few months, you have a prototype, you know, versus having to go through these, these crazy key holders and stakeholders, um, but beyond that, um, obviously in this, in the lifetime of the brand, there have been some pretty epic milestones and turning points in the company's history. Are there any of those milestones that you want to highlight or that you feel particularly proud of?

Thilo Mühle: 23:37

I'm proud of that. We are the oldest family company. We are the family is really here from Gloucester Since the 13th century. We are in the area of this of this city. The area in this past was a little bit bigger than today, you know, but we are in the 13th century here and on this time we really the honest class of the people here. They run the watch company and the milestones.

Thilo Mühle: 24:08

Okay, if you have this big changing, like after World War II, after reunification, or the government took the company over, then the reunification, all in these situations we learned a lot, um to to look forward, to find a new business and um back to your question what is the let me call it the red line in our family company life?

Thilo Mühle: 24:33

It is a measurement instrument, a speedometer and also a worstwatch is, for me, an instrument. An instrument means, in my opinion, it should give you information very clear and very easily to read it. You know so and that is our. When you look, that was the slogan of my father. He said the first thing, what you should see on the Mueller watch is the time, and you know there's a lot of brands where you need a manual like this thickness to read the time. You know and this is not our goal, because this is our red line when you produce measurement instruments and speedometers and all this equipment, then you follow your line to give a really good readability watch, and when you look to our collection in the internet or in the catalog, you can follow this at the first thing. What you can generally see is the time.

Blake Rea: 25:33

I would agree. And let me tell you a little bit. You probably don't know this, but the way that I was introduced to your brand, of course I had heard of you, I had seen you, I had seen the reviews. You know I did. Of course I'm in the watch industry, right so. But I went into a local dealer here in las vegas and they were so proud to be selling your watches, which I thought was cool as hell.

Blake Rea: 26:00

And you know the the owner of that, um, of that uh jewelry store was like here, take two, take two of these watches home and let me know what you think. And I was like you know, this is pretty, this is pretty common. This happens to me all the time. I get a lot of loaner watches, a lot of press watches, and you know some of them. I'll just be like, look, I don't even want to like do anything with this. And at the time I was just kind of had 20 watches in for press and I was like, oh shit, I have two more now. You know that's what I was thinking in my mind. Um, so, anyways, I got the rescue timer and then I got the uh c battalion gmd those those are the two and the second.

Blake Rea: 26:41

I got hands on with the rescue timer like I don't know it just something changed. You know it was. It was just. You know you can't. You see, everybody sees your watches on the internet, right. But but the moment that you get hands on with one of your time pieces was a very special moment for me. I was like, wow, this watch is the definition of a tool watch, yes, especially the star rescue timer, right. So like it doesn't try to be like a beautiful little piece of art or like you know, like this little handcrafted case with the you know the this, the brushed sides of the poly. You know, like this little handcrafted case with the you know the brushed sides of the poly. You know, like the chamfers. Or like a you know beautiful little crown guard. Like it doesn't try to be anything other than the tool that it is.

Thilo Mühle: 27:31

If you like, can you shortly explain how we developed this watch, this, our first tool watch, you know, which we had in our collection. It was the SRR or it's on time, still on time. It's the rescue time, because it's a really nice story behind. If you are interested, because we have, we, we have to the search and rescue guys here in the in Germany. They are organization which is financed only by donations. I know in the US the Coast Guard get the money from the government, not in our case. They get only the money from donations. So we contact them and say, hey, we are a watch company and we look for some special because we make a tool watch, blah, blah, blah, like all the time. And then, hey, we are a watch company and we look for some special because we are like a tool watch, blah, blah, blah, like all the time. And then, yeah, let us meet and then we will see.

Thilo Mühle: 28:25

And you know people in the north part of Germany. They are very, they don't speak too much and they're very straight. You know, they say what they think. No politic, yeah, we have idea, we do for you a GMT watch with this and this. And they told us bullshit. And we said bullshit. Okay, you know, listen, when we go out and the ship is shaking, we destroyed our watches, our private watches, on the wall or on the railing because the ship is shaking, you know. Ah, okay, understood. We have to do a watch where we have, yeah, really strong or really tough. So for this reason we said let us do it with a four millimeter sapphire glass, because this is thick enough. You cannot program with your human power, you know so.

Thilo Mühle: 29:13

The second one was when we go out at night, we have no time to look on the dial. What's the time, you know? So we need really fast to read the time. Then we sat with the designer on the dial and say how can we do this?

Thilo Mühle: 29:27

If you look to your watch what you were you have the three angles on three, six and nine position, where the target goes to the center, only 12 o'clock goes up. That means when you look to the old movies, pilot movies, when they say, hey, three o'clock, is somebody coming, you know exactly. You have to look to the right, nine o'clock to the left. You know, because our orientation in front of us is 12 o'clock and so we are very fast in our brain to read it, and for this reason you can really read at night very fast and for this reason you can really read at night very fast, the time you have not to look with your eyes after the orientation. Where's the hands? And like this you know. And the third thing was when we rescue people, they have on the boat, like a small door at the back you know where they are on the sea level that they, when they pack the people to uh, how say it in English?

Thilo Mühle: 30:17

to bring it in the ship you know, yeah, they pull it up Right, thank you. Sometimes, you know, we pull it up. We cannot have a sharp angle because then we make a cut and we live from the nations and if we rescue the people but there is a cut like this, you know it is not a good publicity for us. So we need no sharp angles and for this reason also the case if you look to your watch, there is no sharp angles. Everything is a little bit. It's not soft, but it is not that you can scratch or that you can give insurance to other people. And at the end the bezel the rubber bezel is to protect the complete watch.

Blake Rea: 30:58

That's what I loved about it. So I actually did a youtube video like there is a youtube review for this watch, um the star rescue timer, and that that's what I I loved about it. It doesn't it doesn't try and be anything than what it's designed for, you know, and and I will say it's, it's.

Thilo Mühle: 31:17

It's not a very like pretty watch, but it is functional you know it's functional and you couldn't find this design or this kind of watch in any another brands exactly. And for us, this developing of this watch, of the sar rescue timer, was the starting point to not to develop in our marketing or in our product development watch. And then we look for famous people with the marketing and say, hey, please show your face with our watch, and then we are famous. No, from this point we start to hear to the people what they need. For instance, you mentioned the Sea Battalion, for example. Sea Battalion, it is like your Navy SEALs in the US Special Forces. And they told us the first what they told us.

Thilo Mühle: 32:07

When we go out our equipment, we have 45 kilograms to carry with us with all the stuff, what they need. And then for me I said, okay, then you have to have a titanium case because it's light, you know, and also with the GMT time, because they are over the world and different places. Then they have the local time and they have the home time, for example, or domestic time. And if you look to the, for example, the bezel is a countdown bezel. The bezel is a countdown bezel because if they, for example, say call me back in 10 minutes. Then you put the 10 of the minute hand and on the triangle you know time is gone, you have not to calculate in your head or you have not to concentrate. It's easy to read it and also for the 24 hours, the triangle it's uh, it's uh open so that you can see the time behind or under this hand, behind or under this hand yeah, the little light.

Thilo Mühle: 33:03

All these points came together. Local time is white, gmt is yellow, only that the people have easily to read the time. This is the goal, what we learned, and so we did some special watches for special units for the submariners. We have only six in Germany, or now we get a new one, but so we developed, for example, a watch for them Only 50 pieces which was not for the official trade. It was only for these guys from these special submarine forces.

Thilo Mühle: 33:38

And that is what I mean Go ahead, oh, no, sorry, go ahead, no, no. That's what I mean is this was the SAR rescue term of our starting point to learn here to the people what they need. And then you have a honest product and not a marketing product. Then you have a product product and not a marketing product. Then you have a product that people need.

Blake Rea: 34:04

Something too is I don't think I've ever told this story, but anyways, I was wearing this watch and I was walking and then, somehow, some way, sometimes you have the person you're walking next to and they start to like you know, like angle you, you know, they start to lean into you. Anyways, my friend did that and he leaned into me into a way, because we were talking and you know the next thing, there was like a concrete wall, like a cement brick wall, and so and so, anyways, he leaned into me and I had my watch there, I had my hand by my side. All I hear is, you know, like oh shit, I just destroyed my watch, your watch, um, yeah, and then I literally was like said something, I was like hold up, hold up, like let's stop, stop, stop, stop, you know.

Blake Rea: 34:56

And then I looked out at my watch and it was just grinded, and so then I just rub, I rubbed it like this, cause I, you know, there's some, some like concrete or whatever, yeah, and there there's only one little mark yeah On it. And uh, and I was like holy shit, you know. And then at the time I was like this might be one of the more rugged watches I've ever owned, you know, because if that happened to my panerai right or whatever, you know, whatever, um, most people think panerai watches are tool watches, but you know not really but um, but anyways, it just would have been destroyed, so I've been very happy.

Thilo Mühle: 35:43

Our passion is to produce watches for people. They want to wear the watch, you know, and not to put it in the safe. And then, oh, it is a nice day, or today Wait, wait, it's German Today is a nice day, and so I take this watch now because the sun is shining, and so it's not our goal. We produce watches for people. They want to wear the watch, really wear.

Blake Rea: 36:06

Very important. What point? Let's shift a little bit. Obviously, you're running the brand now. At what point did you realize you were going to take over the Mule brand?

Thilo Mühle: 36:20

Yeah, it was. My father started when he was 53, you know with the company and then, after we started with the watches, the business ran really in a short time up and he was not able to handle it anymore and so he asked my brother, my sister and me who can? I'm the youngest in the family, you know so and he asked I need assistance and who could imagine that he can come in, you know, and so I was the honest who's in war? I was young, you know, 30, 30 years or 31, and I said well, you know, I can imagine that I can come in, and this was the start in 2000. And after two or three years to learn a lot how is the watch business running and how you run the brand. So I take more and more responsibilities in the company and since 2007, I'm alone the CEO of the company because my father was in pension, but he came three times in a week. He came to the company for three, four hours. Sometimes he makes some factory tours for three, four hours. Sometimes he makes some factory tours.

Thilo Mühle: 37:42

People like it because he is a guy who can tell you the capital of the GDR, he can tell you when the government took over the company and he can also give you the information. After the reunification. How was the time between this changing? Big changing for us, all of us here in East Germany? Until the beginning of this, you know, this was his, yeah, his life, where he can give now a lot of information of people. It is hard to understand for you when you are growing up in a free world, you know, when the government came and say, hey, your company is my company, now you are not responsible anymore. That's crazy to understand for us in a free world, you know. But people are interested in these stories, you know. And so he do some factory tours and, yeah, but he's out of the daily business, of course.

Blake Rea: 38:37

That nationalization process happened to you guys twice, from my understanding.

Thilo Mühle: 38:43

Only one time in 1972. Before in 1945, it was that the Russians closed the company Got it. They brought all the equipment to Russia, only 10% they let here in Klausstädt for the repair center. They're also not stupid. They think, okay, if we have some problems then we have a repair center here, so we can manage it here in Gloucester. And for this reason my grandfather started new with the business.

Blake Rea: 39:14

And then I mean, obviously, as a CEO of a watch brand. What would you say is the most challenging part of running the brand currently?

Thilo Mühle: 39:25

What I learned is you have to find today we call it storytelling, you know, but it's not only storytelling, because watches what we produce, all of us, all the industry, nobody needs really this kind of watch, but it is nice to have and it's a kind of emotion. And for me the biggest goal is, or the biggest challenging is, to give this what you feel my heart blood now when I talk about my company, um to give also these emotions to the end consumer, because that they have a good feeling when they invest the money in a watch, in a product, what you never need really to survive, but to have it and to be, to be happy when you have it. And I have some small in my head Time is running so fast. Everybody says, oh, time is running and 24 hours, and now we have May. And then if you look to your watch and I produce a timepiece where you can see how fast your lifetime is running, and for this reason I say you have to come down a little bit you look to your watch and you say I have a nice watch, and then you come down a little bit for just one or two seconds, then you can read the time and then you can run again.

Thilo Mühle: 40:44

This is a little bit my passion and, for example, I travel very often, also the US. We do with our dealers, for example, we shows. So I come personally because I have the last name on the brand, you know. So people say, really you are Mr Mühle. Yeah, yes, I'm a family member and I'm responsible for this and this and this, and people like to have not a salesperson only or a brand representative. They are interested also in me when I can tell the story. You know, because I'm the story, my family, for the brand.

Blake Rea: 41:28

That is the emotions.

Thilo Mühle: 41:29

What I mean, you know.

Blake Rea: 41:31

And that's so important in today's world. Like you know, you go on Amazon, at least in America, right, you go on Amazon and you order a product and you have no idea behind how that product came to be, like, how it was manufactured, the owner, right, the there's no, there's no heritage behind it. And I will say, like I said, with kind of going back to my, my previous story, when I, when I first got hands-on with your watch, I never, ever, ever had thought I would own one of your watches. It was never on my collecting journey, because I have a journey of watches I want to get and collect and acquire. And Mule was a brand I just didn't pay attention to Because there's, like the watch industry, there's people screaming at you from all directions. You know you got omega, you got rolex, you got you know panerai or whatever right like um, did they, all of them, make a good marketing?

Thilo Mühle: 42:32

you know, and um, but you know as, uh, as a normal thinking people. You, you know all the the famous testimonials. You have to pay for him as if you pay it. If you buy the watch, you pay for them. And we what? All the time when we discuss, for example, not discuss if you mention the price range of our watches, people are surprised. You know why you are so in a so good value. You know, because for me I'm not a typical capitalist, you know, I will not to.

Thilo Mühle: 43:05

My own position is not to increase our turnover all the time, not our profit. That is not the goal. The goal is to give the people a product with a good price range, with a good quality, with a class of the quality. As you know, if you want to use the name of class, you have to produce 50 percent on the movement, only on the movement, here in class. For this reason, we developed 20 years ago also our woodpecker regulation, which is the advantage for the people when they wear it. Ago also our woodpecker regulation, which is the advantage for the people when they wear it, because there is a let me not too much technician, but the advantage is you have a second shock resistant system. It's easy, but it is. You can see it at the internet. We we fit the hand with the spring on the second position and if you're not like this, if you're having this, it could happen that the hands are moving a little bit and you use your accuracy. In this case you can be active and it is more safe for you as a user.

Thilo Mühle: 44:09

So these are parts where we do and our rotor. We produce plates and we make blue screws. And then people, when we do factory tours here in Glashütte, there came people and they say we never could believe that you so deep in the movement. Because we use we are very open with this we use Zilliter basic movements. We disassemble completely, we produce our, we put in our, we assemble our own parts and then we have our accuracy range is from zero to plus eight seconds. So that means also my father, if you are late to an appointment, it's not good. For this reason we make the adjustment in the plus. So this means from zero to plus eight seconds and you get really, for the money that you spend, a really time piece which the value is really great for you, and so let's break that down a little more.

Blake Rea: 45:24

um so, in 2003, it was your father that decided to, you know, to produce this and patent this woodpecker neck regulation system. Um, you know what? What drove that, that innovation like where? Did he just say, hey look, this is what we have to do yeah in our it was.

Thilo Mühle: 45:37

It was two parts. It was one of the part were um that the people after we, the industry, started here because there was two waves, let me say waves at the beginning was in the early 1990 years. So because um, there was founded nomos, it was langen zone, class original or class of own betrieb as a gob was running so and my father started 1994. So this was the first four brands which was running here. And there was a second wave. They started around 2000, 2006, you know, and um, at the beginning it was easy. You say you're from classiter and collectors was heavy a class of the watch, and then it was not a sale, it was to give you know. But then, right after 2000, people make a decision what is the difference between class of the brands, not not with lange and not with class original brand, but another one, you know, which was new? And so you have to find your way and we with our, with our heritage, want to give the people a really quality or high quality watchers and for this reason and also for the classity rule to use the name of classity we developed this woodpecker regulation and it was not to produce a part.

Thilo Mühle: 46:51

I can also put out a plate and I produce it by myself and put it in. It's the same design and is mine. Call it Wertschöpfung. You know we want to give advantage to the end consumer. To say we give you more. How to say it in English Mehr Wert in Germany. I have to run to my mobile phone to look it up, how to say it. You know if you how to say it Mehr Wert, additional, positive part in the movement. You know that you can use Technology.

Thilo Mühle: 47:31

Technology is the word, but it is for the end consumer. It is more. It's another point for a positive decision to buy a Mühle watch, for example, because other brands they haven't. This you know, and so you can. It is really. Let me just a second this, this word. Look it up yeah, it's gonna kill you, huh yeah, it is easy sometimes, but you know also, sometimes you is there a english word yeah yeah, please sorry for my english, but sometimes overvalue, ah, okay yeah, but it's the overvalue and that's what's the kind of overvalue for.

Thilo Mühle: 48:07

Ah, okay, yeah, but it's the overvalue and that's what's the kind of overvalue for the or is the kind of overvalue for the for the end consumer and?

Blake Rea: 48:18

so we have it in all our our movements. Let's let's talk a little bit more about that. So, obviously, now you have the woodpecker neck regulator, what is the future? I mean, are you guys working on developing the movement even further or are you guys planning on anything like that that you plan to? Is that a priority to you to over develop the movements even further?

Thilo Mühle: 48:43

yes, we have. We have to do all the time developing because you know, if you don't do it, then you, you are going up, you know so, with the brand awareness, and what I don't prefer is to produce that one movement. But what can I do with my numbers of watches that I produce during a year? I can do a freehand movement. Yeah, freehand movements, they are now available a lot. Some copy the ETA movement, some copy this one level a lot. Some copy the eta movement, some copy this one, and for me it is not really, with these numbers, advantage for the end consumer.

Thilo Mühle: 49:16

And another problem is we will jump up in the price range during our small amount or small pieces as a, yeah, amount of pieces, what we produce in the price range maybe 2000 more for a freehand watch, and this is, I guess, in the price range. Maybe 2,000 more for a free hand watch, and this is, I guess, not our price range anymore. And people will not spend, for example, 3 or 4,000 euros for a Mühle free hand watch with their own movement, more or less. What we want to do is we will spend more attention to the modules that we developed, on modules where we can show another function. For example let me say a big that we developed own modules where we can show another function, you know, for example, let me say a big date, yeah, and these are points where we have the possibility, where we have also the people in-house, and this is also a point, this was my decision what we can handle, you know, and also what we can financial. This is all points came together because to develop their own movement, if you don't make only a copy, it is we speak about three to four million euro for the developing, production, tooling and all this, you know, and this is a lot of money and I know somebody who do this, but there is the money from outside.

Thilo Mühle: 50:27

Then you can do it, but we are un-finalized. We have no um, no shareholders inside. We only have family shareholders. So I have to make the decision step by step, you know. And another big point for me is our end consumer and also our retailers have to follow the developing of our brand. If they don't understand the steps, then you lose. You know the people beside you now, they are over the top, you know. And also, small steps is much more healthier, because if you have to go one small step back, nobody will see it. But if you have to jump back, then then everybody is crying, say, hey, now they are bankruptcy like this, you know. So for me, to run a company like us is make small steps, take your time and at the end you will be successful.

Blake Rea: 51:24

I like the strategy. You know, obviously a lot of you know off-the-shelf calibers. You know, at a Salida or whatever, a lot of people are going through these weird phases where they're kind of, you know, giving bad credibility to Salida or bad credibility to Eta and they're like, oh, we're going, gonna develop our own in-house, but the the problem that I see and I think about as that happens is is long-term serviceability. You know yeah, yeah like let's just say heaven forbid something happens with you know yeah, I've got one right here.

Thilo Mühle: 52:08

Yeah, Um, you know, heaven forbid, something happens to that brand and you know, there's no parts, there's no there's no watchmaker Like especially when you have the retail, um, the retailers over the world, you have to be safe that they can also make the repair. You know, and um, we work, as I know miguel garcia, since since I'm here since 24 years now and miguel was the onus to give us independent brands a possibility to etta, you know, because etta decide only complete movements and then they decide he get, or this brand get the movements, this get. You're not, and you know I'm not independent anymore. So for this reason I'm completely free of Swatch Group suppliers in each part, because for me it's much more safer to have it under my own control.

Thilo Mühle: 53:10

And Miguel and me we have a friendship and so we talk about, sometimes about the business, how we can do something together. Yeah, it's not a business, it's a friendship, you know, and I follow him and I assist him with my small numbers of movements that I buy. But we all the time also very critical because we disassemble the movements and we see something where we can speak with them. Also, in the beginning, when he started with his own movement, maybe that my watchmaker say oh, there is something, maybe he has to change this or this, so that we spoke with this technician um department and so that we um was a little bit more that they say, ah, we saw this and we changed this, and you know it was also a part of the developing of the quality of the zilliter movements until today. But I guess they are in the same quality range, like eta I feel like they're superior personally you know there's been.

Blake Rea: 54:14

There's been some design flaws, from my understanding with the edda movements, that salida has sorted yeah you know, kind of like that big step backwards like you talked about. Like like edda can't do that, you know, but anyways, um, let's talk about the future real quick. You know we're coming up here um pretty close to an hour. Tell us about the future goals for the brand and how do you see the company evolving within the next decade.

Thilo Mühle: 54:48

The first good thing is I have two kids, you know, and they are both in the company now. My son is responsible for the whole production part and my daughter is responsible for the whole sales part. You know, and this is for me a good feeling, if you have two kids and both of them say it's not that I pressure them and say, hey, I do it for you and you have to come in, no, they have different jobs. And then they came and said, no, we could believe that we can be here and to assist you. And now we find a way that they do the daily business, way that they do the daily business. And I have the, the big goal and not the big uh, the big possibility to uh think about strategy. You know, because what I do is to speak with another brands, for example, where we have the same um distributions. You know, we have some brands where we, where we have the same distributors over the world, what we can do together fairs like this, where we can produce because we have the machines, parts for them that they not have to go to switzerland, for example this is a german brand and I'm looking for this kind of business what we can do generally, generally for this. What I want to say my kids are in the company, so this is safe. Sixth generation I'm fifth generation, these are the sixth generation and they do the business great. And what we do in the future is we will be working on our own. What I told you before module developing this for me it's a big goal because if you have your own module, you have your own dial design from the points you know, so you have not to follow the typical what you can get from the, from the production, mass production of cilita or eta. So this will be a point from us, and also that we follow our rule less is more will be a point from us, and also that we follow our rule less is more, yeah, and form follow function. This is so our it's a typical German thing Okay, but we will not what I told you also create more and more turnover. So we will do small steps.

Thilo Mühle: 57:05

For me, it's very important I have 65 employees, you know, and I'm not alone, but I'm responsible that they get the work and that they get the money that they can have also a good life with their families here in the area, and this is what I give them back that we are a safe company, we do not hire, we do not blow out money for nothing. Each euro which we spend has to be paid on the brand. You know and this is where we follow and as you see in the last couple of years, the changing in the distribution of big brands when they go ahead with their retail stores, with their own stores no multi-brand stores, more for us a new possibility to get in these stores, to give them the possibility to get a partner like us, where you can develop over the next 10 years, you know, where they have also the possibility to do the turnover and the business with us together. This is the opportunity, yeah, what they can do with us that we find together a way because the most of the retailers are family companies too. So the thinking is the same, it's independent.

Thilo Mühle: 58:17

If you're in the US or in Europe, you know it's the same thinking because we have the same problems, we have the same challenges and we have the same language. You know, in this case and I could be a part to give them the possibility to do the business if they, for example, lose a big brand when they go ahead with their own retail stores, with their flagship stores, for example. This is some point where I will be working on, because I guess we are a good brand for the people and especially also the US market is for us a very important market because people understand the history, people understand our design, because this is a typical German, a little bit clear, not too much things. Form follow the function and for this reason also our attention for the export business is the US market.

Blake Rea: 59:19

Yeah, yeah, I think you guys are heading in a great direction. Obviously, I'm a huge fan of the brand and, let's talk, your previous statement kind of opened up a few more questions for me. So who will be the next president of the brand? Will it be your son or daughter, or are you just letting them fight it out, or is it going to be both of them?

Thilo Mühle: 59:45

Both. You know why, why not? You know why it's so funny when I explain you, because my daughter, she is 30 now and when I look to her she's the same person when I was here and you in the company. I came in and said we have to change this, we have to change this, we have to change this, you know. So it's a lot of energy and we have to go forward. You know, and my son it's now like me today, he's thinking, he don't speak too much but he's thinking and said, okay, let me think about. And this combination it's really good that you have. One is like this so go forward, go forward. And another one, the other part, is let us think about and let us like, check about. You know what happened when I do this. You know Not to run in this direction. Then I come back, I run in this direction. So, and this is a really cool combination, and sometimes I'm really I have to laughing a little bit inside when I see both, because I see in both of my kids my personality when I was younger and now this is.

Thilo Mühle: 1:00:44

I guess it's a good combination to give also this company a new direction, because they are young, they have another thinking. They have another technology access to social media like this. I'm 55 years old, so because I use it, but I will say I don't like it really, you know, because it's too much information which you don't need, you know. Yeah, I don't like it really, you know, because it's too much information which you don't need, you know, yeah. And I give them a lot of free hands that they can do and that they can try their own way, so that they also I'm not the patriarch. I say no, we do it old way, because I have to accept this the young people have another thinking than me. I had another thinking than my father, you know, so I have to change. Also, I changed a lot of things which my father did before and I change it to the way now.

Blake Rea: 1:01:37

He was successful, I was successful until now and I really believe my kids will be also successful because they follow their own way, but it is a way in the right direction. That sounds amazing. I am, uh, I'm, really happy that it sounds like you're very confident in the, in the next generation, and in transitioning the company and and stepping down at some point and um, and that's the. That's the happiest thing for me to hear you know um, and I, like I said, I'm I'm a huge fan of the brand. I. I love your products, I I love your story.

Blake Rea: 1:02:20

Um, I'm definitely coming to germany you have to come, yeah, to see, to see you um, to see the factory um, and maybe even do another YouTube video. Yeah, of course.

Thilo Mühle: 1:02:34

So you are invited here I can show, because we are near to Dresden. Dresden is, let me say, one of the three nice cities here in Germany and I guess we have a lot of tourists, more than other places in Germany, because this is really a cool city and we are 30 minutes by car south of Dresden. We have a really cool museum here in Glashütte and of course we can do a factory tour. We can do a YouTube video. Up to you. You are invited if you come. There are some direct flights from Vegas to Frankfurt.

Blake Rea: 1:03:12

I know with, I guess with Eurowings Discovery, oh yeah yeah, yeah, I, I have no issues getting there and yeah, it's just, it's scheduling is very. I just came back from from from Geneva and I did. I did a brigade tour, I went to, I did a Panerai tour, I did a few micro brands like Ferlin, mari Delma, zenith, um, and so I'm like still trying to catch up from my January tour because it's just me and one other person. You know the lonely rest is just two people. You know, because it's just me and one other person. You know the lonely rest is just two people. You know um. So it's particularly challenging, especially when we have three different outlets the podcast, the youtube and the website. It's particularly challenging trying to keep up. I just came back from from san francisco yesterday. Um, yeah, and I I wrote up um at a watch event with uh. I think there's like 60 or 70 uh 70 brands or something like that and it was wind up wind up event right?

Thilo Mühle: 1:04:13

yeah, yeah, yep, we do it in chicago and we do it in new york.

Blake Rea: 1:04:18

I didn't know you guys were participating. Um, it's a fun event. It's uh, it's a super fun event. I've done chicago, I've done san francisco and I think this coming year we're probably going to do New York. It's just a great opportunity to meet people and to learn about brands.

Thilo Mühle: 1:04:36

So I will be there this October over there.

Blake Rea: 1:04:39

Oh, okay, so I might see you there, I'm sure.

Thilo Mühle: 1:04:42

Yeah, of course, and if you ever find the time to come to Germany because Closet is really a small village For you in the US you'll be loving, because the main city, the inhabitants is 1,700. It's not really much. We have really two streets, one in this direction like a T and another in this direction, but you find nine different watch brands here. It's stupid, but it's a really small place and if you don't find the breaks, you are through the full closet, you know, because it's not too much, but in this really small place you find nine different brands.

Blake Rea: 1:05:16

That's cool, that's so amazing, and the entire town is just a watchmaking town and it seems like. From my understanding, everybody that works there is likely involved in the watch industry.

Thilo Mühle: 1:05:29

We have around 2,000 employees totally here in Closet in the watch industry.

Blake Rea: 1:05:35

Wow, that's good, and so some of them are traveling, traveling out to come in and work, yeah yeah, From the area of Dresden it's easy to travel to Closet.

Thilo Mühle: 1:05:47

Yeah.

Blake Rea: 1:05:48

Well, I want to leave on that note. We just reached over an hour. Um, I don't want to take up too much more of your time. Thank you again. So much for coming on.

Blake Rea: 1:05:59

Um everybody out there everybody out there listening go out right now and buy a Mula, if you haven't already. Um, because because I, I, I say, if you haven't already, um, you, because because I, I, I say this in all seriousness um, you know, I'm a huge fan of the brand and, uh, and I'm a really big fan of what you're doing and and just the direction of the company, you know, and, and the products, the products, right, like I feel, and there's, there's very few watches. I, I have in my personal collection over 100 watches, like you know, there's a lot right, so every every morning I wake up I'm like, which one of my 100 watches am I gonna wear, right? Um, and there's very few watches now, very few watches that make me feel, uh like special when I wear them. You know, I've got four or five rolexes I don't even know how many.

Blake Rea: 1:06:56

I mean whatever panerai, you know zenith and whatever jlc, like I've got pretty much every watch brand right, but um, in all seriousness, there's very few watches that make me feel as special as the Saar Rescue Timer. Again, you know, kind of like, if you know, people made it here this far, they know why. But yeah, I mean that, and so I'm definitely coming for sure to Germany and I'll probably see you, see you in New York as well, so thank you, Thank you.

Thilo Mühle: 1:07:32

Thank you very much for the interview and a good time and hopefully we see us in New York or when I came next time to Las Vegas I let you know so then we can talk a little bit and dinner, have some beer and to enjoy a little bit live and watch this, you know, yeah let's do it.

Blake Rea: 1:07:51

Thank you so much, everybody that made it this far. I go ahead and thank you again to our guest D-Lo. Thank you so much for the brand and we will see you guys on the next one.

Thilo Mühle: 1:08:02

Thank you very much and stay all of you healthy and maybe see you next time in the US, okay, or here in Klausurde.

Blake Rea: 1:08:10

Yeah, yeah, for.