Planting the Seed: The Genesis of ColivingDAO

Daniel and Gareth discuss how they came up with the idea that lead to the birth of ColivingDAO, talking about:

• Pros and cons of coliving
• Their desire to improve the coliving model
• Limitations of traditional property ownership
• Combining coliving and ownership
• Importance of privacy and personal space in coliving
• Scaling community living
• Sharing resources and sustainability in coliving
• Coliving as a blueprint for a regenerative world
• Residents' voice and influence in coliving communities
• FairShares Commons and blockchain technology in coliving

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:08

Hi everyone, this is Daniel from Co-Living DAO Insights. Welcome. And I'm joined here today by my co-host and co-founder Gareth. How are you doing, Gareth?

SPEAKER_00: 0:19

Hi folks, yeah, I'm good done. Really good to be here today to speak about Co-Living DAO.

SPEAKER_01: 0:25

Awesome, great to be with all of you here. And uh what we're gonna be talking about today is uh really uh a little bit more in detail what we're doing here at Coliving DAO and uh how you can all get involved as well because uh effectively uh it's uh a pleasure for us to share how the idea came about and um how we uh met and conceived this uh and uh the steps we've taken as well uh in order to uh make this a reality. Uh so it's Colivinda, as you know, uh we like to say own where you rent from day one and have a real voice to to shape your community. It will be clearer in a few seconds. But just so you know, Gareth and I met in uh a co-living because uh we were living in a co-living in aligned in. Uh it used to be the biggest one in Europe at the time. Uh I believe it's still one of the biggest in Europe, and uh we had a pretty good time in that co-living, right Gareth?

SPEAKER_00: 1:19

Yeah, it was a it was a lot of fun, it was a really cool place to live, and um yeah, I'll tell just tell a bit more about it and how it works. So for those of you that are not so familiar with co-living, it's kind of like a new way of living where when you're a resident you get your own room or small apartment, um, usually with an ensuite, although it depends on the on the exact location, the exact configurations, but you usually get like a small apartment, and then access to shared facilities with all the other residents. So it's a really social place, and so you get like a gym, you might have like a living room, a library, a co-working space. Um, we had a bar and a restaurant, we had a roof terrace where we used to do events outside. So yeah, it was a lot of fun and a really cool way to meet like-minded people, especially in a big city like London, um, where travelling across the city can take up to an hour, hour and a half sometimes, by having people that you meet and socialize with on your doorstep in the same building, with using all these facilities, it's it's it's a really great place to be, it's really fun. You meet like-minded people. And uh yeah, so we met and became friends. We were neighbours and we became good friends and had a lot of adventures together in the in the in the co-living space. On the practical side, co-living rent often covers all of your bills, so you don't need to worry about electricity bills, heating bills, uh council tax or whatever the local arrangements are. So it's just really convenient, everything in one bill. Um but yeah, so it it was great, and we lived there for a few years each. And and Dan will tell you a bit more about the the the things that we saw in co-living, the fun side as well as some of the problems that we saw in the way that co-living is is managed and run. Yeah. What did you see there?

SPEAKER_01: 3:20

Yeah, that's a great point you make, and uh I really want to emphasize the value of uh having uh friends you can hang up with uh on a very short notice, and even for a short period of time on a regular basis. It's uh very interesting because before living in London, I was living in uh in Barcelona, which is also a big city. Also a big city, but uh a little bit of a different um lifestyle, I would say. Uh most um uh most of the action is concentrated in the center, so it feels a lot smaller. And uh I developed a lot of friendships that uh could really be very spontaneous. I could meet people just on a on a very short notice, say, hey, do you want to go for coffee? Do you want to hang out in like 30 minutes? Uh, do you want to meet for for like an hour or less, and so on? And uh this really adds a lot of value to building friendships long term. And living in London uh without a co-living can be very challenging for that reason. Everyone lives very far away. Um, uh all the uh events and and things going on, they're quite scattered across a pretty large area. Uh, and um this means that people are not really uh spending uh a lot of time, many times together. In fact, uh, unless there's a good reason to meet very often, um, I probably just won't meet my friends. And uh the co-living really adds the dimension where if I just have like 30-minute downtime, or if if I just want to have a quick lunch at home or anything like that, I can hang out with someone, and uh in the long run, those 30 minutes over and over again uh can really uh make a friendship, and uh and this is awesome, and uh that's why we uh really valued living in a in a place like that. Um, as uh Gareth was saying as well, it's it's so convenient, so practical, uh having uh not to worry about uh all the bills and everything. So there's a lot of advantages uh that we noticed. Uh, but yes, just like we mentioned, there's some downsides, and um the most frustrating thing probably for for a lot of people in um is just having to pay rent over and over, and at the end of it uh not owning anything, uh which is in contrast with the way we uh like to live in our society when people once they decide where to live long term, uh they get a mortgage and they start paying monthly payments that actually go towards acquiring an asset. And in the long term, that can make a difference, as as you probably all know. Uh whereas right now co-living mostly exists on a on a rental basis, which is one of the things we we're looking to change as well. Um, and uh this is a big thing. And the other thing is really that there were a lot of conflicts between uh what the what the landlord wanted and uh what the um uh residents actually wanted. And this led to a lot of misunderstandings and uh a lot of confusion, right Gareth?

SPEAKER_00: 6:20

Yeah, the so one of the real strengths of of the co-living we lived in was there was a sense of community. So it wasn't just you're a resident and uh you know you hang out every now and again. There was a real sense of a community there, and and people used to hang out and create their own social events outside of what the what the landlord organized. So the the co-living management or landlord did organise events, which was great, and it brought people together. Um but there really was a community sort of self-organized by the residents. And when when challenges come in for the management and the landlord, like um COVID is obviously the most obvious one, the the default for management is to go back to the only thing that matters is the money, right? And and then the focus is lost on the community and the events, and it there's less support for that community. And what happens then is it starts to feel more like you're living in a serviced apartment where people don't know each other and they have their own lives, and you lose that sense of community feel that makes that made the place so special for me. Um and then you get that, you know, it's just like any other block of apartments in a big city, and so some of the fun comes out of it, some of the social connections in the community not so strong. Um and and you really have no way of of of changing that. You can residents do can speak to management in like a a village hall type arrangement, but at the end of the day the management holds all the power that they run the building. The residents are there as temporary residents paying rent, so there isn't really an incentive to change things in a big way from the from the landlord's point of view. Yeah, so um and the other thing is you know, Dan, you made the point of you don't own anything after paying rent every month. In i in in one sense there's there's a sort of two sides to that. In one sense, it's an intentional thing when you move to a big city, you know, people want to have the freedom to to move around and and not be stuck in one place like a like on a mortgaged property, but also uh as you progress in your career there's always that opportunity cost of oh man, I just paid rent for five years and and it was great to be able to have the freedom to move around, but if I stay in the co-living for five years, I literally own nothing at the end of it, and so you always look back and go, hmm, I could have put that money into saving up a deposit to buy a property, and so you have this trade-off between living on your own in a mortgaged flat in a big city, but owning something, or having the freedom in the community and the socializing that you would get with a co-living. So it's kind of like a binary choice, it's one or the other. And so, yeah, th those are the two the two major downsides, you don't own anything at the end, and and really the landlord and the and the management team of the co-living really pursue their own agenda, which is usually the finances at at the expense of the community. And so, yeah, that led to us to think, and we had lots of conversations when we lived there. Oh man, how would we improve how a co-living works? You know, if we were if we were running a co-living, what would we do to make it different? How would we change these things? Dan, maybe you want to speak to some of that and how we how we had our kind of Eureka moment one day.

SPEAKER_02: 10:09

Absolutely, and uh yeah, this is something we like to do, right, Gareth. We love to uh think in a non-dualistic way and think, hey, wait a minute, why couldn't these things coexist?

SPEAKER_01: 10:20

Uh why is there a dilemma? Uh do I have the flexibility of not owning anything, or uh do I own something which may appreciate in value? It means equity, uh, it's an asset, but I'm no longer flexible. I'm I'm stuck to having to repay this mortgage for a very long time. And if I want to exit, I need to find a buyer. It's it's complicated. Plus, I'm just not in a co-living uh any any way at that point, since uh co-living uh with ownership is uh not popular at all right now. So we thought about that and we realized that actually that there could be a different way that incorporates both advantages. There's no reason, there's no theoretical structural reason why there couldn't be a co-living that allows people to own equity uh but stay flexible at the same time. And uh one thing we thought about is okay, there can be a co-living people just buy instead of renting. Uh, and that exists to uh a very small extent. There's some co-livings uh they're um adopting the model like that, uh, but that pretty much presents the same issues of owning a place outright. Meaning, uh again, if we own a unit in a co-living, then we also um effectively tie to that particular unit, so we're still losing the flexibility. So maybe we do get the advantage of living in the co-living in this case, but um uh still uh and and the disadvantage is not only the lack of flexibility, but also the fact that a large deposit is usually required in order to start acquiring uh uh an asset, especially if it's property. Um, right now deposits can be uh quite a significant chunk of money for a lot of people, maybe it's years of savings as well. So not something that people can uh do lightheartedly in many cases. So we looked at different ways of doing it, and then we realize that there is indeed a better way. Uh, and uh we'll tell you exactly how we uh we figured that out and uh and what the better way entails. Uh but before we do that, I wanted to share another realization that we had is that it's it's quite interesting. You're probably familiar with this already. Uh there's uh a very, very specific um form of individualistic living in our society that it's kind of considered the pinnacle of the dwelling ladder, so to speak. So normally a young person will live with their parents, and uh after a certain age, maybe they move to a share flat or a student house, and then gradually, as they progress in their career and earn more money, uh then they acquire um an asset, maybe not necessarily buy, it could be rent, but the idea is to live alone. So, meaning uh if I can afford to live alone, then I live alone. If I live with others, it's because I cannot afford to live alone. And uh that's a bit of an unspoken message, and uh it's just a general perceived status symbol, meaning people that live alone, they have more money, they have more status, uh, therefore they do it. If people live with others, it means they can't afford living alone, right? Uh the reality is obviously a lot more complex. It doesn't have to be that way. Uh and it's quite interesting because in our experience, we realize that a lot of people living in um in the co-living, at some point, maybe they made more money, maybe they uh just wanted to uh do something a little bit different, change era, whatever reason. Uh, and they just followed this uh escalator and they decided, okay, next step in the ladder, now I want to live alone, have my own space. Great. And what happened is that very, very soon they started feeling lonely based on the stories I was hearing and uh what they told me as well. So it's not surprising that going from a situation of living with other people and all of a sudden living alone, it's not really surprising that they start feeling lonely, especially if their lifestyle involves uh spending long hours working. Uh maybe they have some hobbies and they do different things, and then going home alone and and and then walk. So their social life uh really had a big impact and um loneliness is real. In fact, there's a lot of reports that in uh especially in big cities, uh people can feel quite lonely. London is certainly one of the most lonely cities uh in that respect, despite having uh nearly nine million people, uh, because loneliness obviously it's not just about a number of people, it's uh it's uh a lot about connections and interaction. So we one of the things that we really do with co-living DAO is we really challenge this idea that living alone is um something that should be perceived as higher status or uh preferable. I mean, and and by the way, uh there's absolutely nothing wrong with living alone. And uh I know a lot of people want privacy. What's possible on the other hand is the flexibility of a co-living designed a certain way is really allowing people to have as much or as little privacy as they want. Because uh living in a co-living, it doesn't mean being forced to having to share a lot of different things, sharing space, sharing uh personal space, or even doing activities together. Uh, it's possible to design co-livings with uh uh a higher or lower level of uh of privacy and uh personal space for everyone. So I think it's really important that we um all understand that there's uh different ways of doing things, and then one way that is um um pursued by society is not necessarily what makes a lot of people happy, even if people uh usually only realize a little bit later. Uh and uh there's a lot of people that actually already realize this and they're looking to build community in uh in different ways, but uh there's one main challenge that I've noticed, and you've noticed this as well, I know, is uh they're finding it complicated to scale. So even people that realize yes, let's live in a community, uh let's find new ways to live in a community that solve a lot of the problems, but then how do we scale that, Gareth?

SPEAKER_00: 16:18

Yeah, absolutely, Dan. And just to just to um reiterate on your first point, it is kind of crazy the way that um society is is structured in terms of where people live, right? So it the way I experienced it is when I was a student, I stayed in student accommodation, and student accommodation has improved a lot over the last few years, that quite often it is a bit like a co-living um arrangement where all your friends are in the same building or they're really nearby and you get to hang out every day. And then you graduate and you move into flat. And if you're in London, you might move into flatshare, and yeah, sure, you might have some flatmates and some friends there, but then as you get busier and in in your career and earn more money, you save up a deposit and then you buy a place on your own, and then all of your friends are working and you're working, and then you have to really make an effort to get out there and socialize and connect with them. Where before, as a student, you could just connect with your friends immediately. So it's kind of this like backwards kind of um path through society that the more successful you become, the lonelier you become sometimes. So it's really interesting the way that's set up. And and yeah, so uh on your second point, there's a lot of people around the world looking at exactly these kinds of issues, and it and it leads into much bigger things, right? So individualistic living is um it requires a lot of resources, and so it's causing environmental damage and emissions and material use, and then you have transport systems if you have to drive to get from one place to another in a big city. Um there's a real intense in increase in environmental damage from the individualistic living model, and so and also the fabric of communities again. If if there's loneliness and isolation, it's much harder to have that strong community cohesion. And so a lot of people in this generation are are looking for new ways of community living, system changers, they want to like how do we live together in a way that we have community and we we have our friends and family nearby, but also access to all the modern things that make you know modern life a lot of fun, and at the same time protect the environment by uh using resources much more efficiently. And so they're really looking to shake up the model, these system changers, and and examples of that around the world are eco-villages or regenerative communities, where people go in and really ambitious plans to to set up communities where they grow their own food, generate their own electricity, using clean energy, and sometimes even use their own monetary system and disconnect themselves from the existing systems that we have in society in order to try and start a new way of living, a completely new way of living. And and a lot of them are successful at their community level. It works in the little bubble where they are in the eco-village or the regenerative community. Quite often they're in a semi-rural area just outside of big cities as well. Um, but then they have this problem of even if they build a successful community, how do they build the second one and the third one and the fourth one? Because then they have to engage with the normal, if you want to call it normal society, um, to raise finance, get money, and and and replicate. The way those those places operate in multiple places around the world and even inside big cities, how do you do that? Build a regenerative community or an eco-village inside a big city? How do you do that and integrate with the system? So there's a real challenge of scale, of scaling beyond these experimental communities. And so there's a lot of exploration in this space, it's really exciting. So there's a real need for new forms of property ownership and new forms of community living that can bring all of these things together. Hopefully that gives you a flavor of that, Dan. Is that kind of what you had in mind?

SPEAKER_02: 20:44

Absolutely. And uh yes, you made a very good point on the efficiency as well. Uh I'm big on efficiency, and uh uh one of the things that we had in the living that worked really well is uh uh something we used to call a library of things, having all this uh collection of shared objects that we can all use when needed. And it makes a lot of sense. I mean, why would I buy and own my own screwdriver if I'm only using a screwdriver maybe a couple of hours a year? Uh but when I do need it, I I have to have it. So um obviously for uh society based on uh consumerism, this is great. On the other hand, uh, we know that uh there's different ways of doing things, and because I love efficiency, I love the idea of just borrowing it for a short period of time, bringing it back, and eventually a community of several hundred people can easily just share a single toolbox rather than multiple people owning their own. Uh and this is just an example. I think I borrowed all sorts of things. Uh, I think I borrowed um even tents when I had to go camping. I borrowed really different things that are not something that uh I would need every day. And there's also kind of daily or weekly things that can be shared. Um, some communities like to share, for example, uh laundry facilities. Uh, some people prefer to have their own. So there's a lot of different flavors, different ways of doing things, but certainly uh the more people live together, uh the more it is possible to achieve that sort of um um scalable efficiency, uh, which is very, very interesting, not just from an economic point of view, but also uh from a sustainability point of view. And I know, Gareth, you're very, very big uh on sustainability. Uh so do you want to share a little bit more about uh how it is possible to create a more sustainable future uh through co-living?

SPEAKER_00: 22:35

Yeah, absolutely, Dan. So I love sustainability, it's really a big motivational driver for me, and it's a big reason why I'm so enthusiastic about what we've created here with Co-Living DAO, because it's not just a way, a better way of living, um, and a new model for property ownership, if you will. Um, it's really exciting for me because uh this is a kind of a blueprint at Co-Living DAO where you can get that combination of an amazing community living and it and better social connections, and we can take care of the environment at the same time. And this kind of model can replicate itself. So, as I said before, like these amazing pioneers that I'm in contact with and and I work with on a regular basis, the system changers, they're looking to build a regenerative world where we can take care of people, profit, and planet and enhance all of them at the same time. Um, the the challenges they're facing with scaling beyond a single community is something that co-living dial can address. So we have a blueprint that is scalable and it enables multiple regenerative co-living communities to pop up all over the world. And by yeah, having this scalable blueprint and having multiple co-living regenerative communities around the world, it really starts to change the way that local communities operate because residents have a voice because they are stakeholders in our system, they're shareholders, and they have a real strong voice to influence the management and the or the landlords of the co-living or the company operator, whichever terminology is useful for that particular community, and and they can shape the community and make it better. And also by having all of your from an environmental point of view, from having all of your facilities nearby in the building or in the local community, where you can shape, you know, residents can actually shape the way the local community looks because they have power to do so. Um what you have then is this concept of a 15-minute city where most of the things you need most of the time are in your local area, so it cuts down on transport, energy, um, emissions, materials use. Uh you can have local businesses that bring uh you know strong local supply chains of food to those co-living communities, and and the whole thing becomes way more efficient, and it also becomes a block that can be replicated and starts to influence communities not just locally but all over the city and around the world. It kind of spreads this idea of liquid democracy where residents really have the power to really shape and change their local communities in their local buildings and beyond the boundaries of those buildings. And then it that feeds in for me, it's really exciting because you can really start to influence the environmental sustainability aspects because we know, for example, that people are happier when there's more green and blue spaces and more nature around. And so if residents have the power to shape the building in the community, what that means is that they can then request things like, well, can we have more trees, more green areas, more blue areas in the in and around the building, like a roof garden, for example, or nearby in in the local community, where maybe we pull some funds together with other communities and we restore natural areas where we can go and hang out, get some fresh air, get away from traffic, and that really increases well-being and people feel better, the environment gets better, efficiency gets better, and local democracy gets better. So this becomes a really powerful vehicle to change not just a building but possibly you know an entire city and maybe have a big influence around the world. So that's really exciting for me. The environmental sustainability element is just one piece that can turbocharge the other bits, the social and the community bits. Yeah, so uh back over to you, Dan, to talk a bit more about where we saw um how we were actually came up with the blueprint, you know, how did we were together in the co-living space when we came up with the idea for the for the co-living dial blueprint, and and that was a really exciting moment for me because it came out of nowhere, and we were both kind of talking with each other about how we would fix co-living, and we had this aha kind of eureka moment, the realization that came one day, and that was a lot of fun. Do you want to talk a bit more about that?

SPEAKER_02: 27:43

Oh, yeah, that's uh very, very interesting how it came about because really what we mentioned so far, it all comes down to the the two main uh areas which are ownership and governance. So uh clearly a lack of ownership in co-living for residents, and uh lack of a fair governance system that is actually functional and and it works. It um actually has the best interest of all the stakeholders in mind, not just the landlords. And uh we thought about that from different angles, and um obviously I'll I'll let you speak a little bit more about your angle. My angle in the case was the um the web 3 and uh and blockchain, in particular, all the use cases that blockchain technology has enabled. And um I know that you've been uh working on uh um different blueprints uh even before coming across the blockchain, and then we just realized oh, that's a perfect fit here. So if we combine what you were working on, that the uh the the fair share commons, uh we combine that with uh blockchain technology that makes it seamless and makes it easy to use, all of a sudden we have something that works, we have something that addresses the challenges and solves the problem. The problem being number one, ownership, number two, governance. So, first of all, with ownership, what we realize is great, all of a sudden, rather than having uh to transact in a very complicated way, like having all these different share classes not knowing how to use them, uh, we can tokenize everything. So tokenized shares, so the shares are easy to issue, easy to buy, easy to sell, uh, easy to transact with in uh in a more general way. So the whole idea of giving shares in the business, because co-living, after all, is a business, and there can be a property, an underlying asset there, so there's a lot of value in there, and uh a co-living business can give shares to the residents because after all the residents are adding value to the business itself. I move to a co-living because I want to be with the other residents as well, it's not just the landlord that is giving me the value. So recognizing that the community has value, therefore giving uh shares to the community which give ownership uh to the community of the community itself, uh, and the web3 angle really allows this to function in a very seamless natural way through tokenization. So, one of the big things we're doing at Calivindow is really tokenizing uh the shares of the company so that it's easy for everyone to own them, uh to sell them if they so wish, because why not? Maybe people want to sell, maybe people want to uh buy things with those shares and and so on. And we could talk a lot about how the the the share system works, but uh Gareth, uh tell us a little bit more about uh your angle coming from the the Fear Shares comment and how you uh understood that this could really revolutionize the way people understand co-living.

SPEAKER_00: 30:56

Yeah, absolutely. So let's go back to basics just to make it really clear for those that have just joined us um on this first podcast. And um the work that I was looking at, as Dan mentioned there, was on quite simply, you know, how do we uh address company structures to make um wealth and power sharing much easier? So, how do we get uh in this case residents to have a voice and a share in the wealth generated is a key piece of the puzzle for co-living. And so I was working on the future of companies and the future of how companies can do this. Um and the and the general consensus around the world seems to be that multi-stakeholder companies are the way forward, and multi-stakeholder simply means you know exactly what as the word suggests, lots of different stakeholders who have a real stake in the business. And so we mentioned residents at Co-Living Dow, but you can also have other stakeholders. There's obviously investors, you have the management and the employees, but you could also have partners or suppliers as stakeholders. And the way that normal companies are structured is you typically just have uh, in terms of shareholders, is basically you have investors in anyone that can buy shares, and and usually it's restricted to the investors and the and the founders in a company, so the other stakeholders, it's very difficult for them to acquire shares and have a real powerful voice and also share some of that wealth. So I was working on a company structure that enables multi-stakeholder, and that's called the Fair Shares Commons. And this is an amazing vehicle because it draws on a lot of history from multi-stakeholder companies from the past, like traditional co-ops where employees would get shares in a business, and really takes it and enhances it. And so, in the conversation I had with Dan when we were living in the co-living, I was talking about these new governance models like the Fair Shares Commons that enable that exciting multi-stakeholder approach where every stakeholder really counts, you know, they have a voice, they have real power, and they share some of the wealth. And and that became a key part of the puzzle to to address some of these challenges that we see for co-living. How do we give residents a voice? How do we give them a share in the power? And so that's really exciting for me. Um, and then Dan, you were bringing in some of the Web3 and blockchain elements, which actually complemented what I was working on really nicely, and that was kind of our aha moment. Can you talk a bit more about that? That side of things?

SPEAKER_02: 33:50

Absolutely, and uh just like you say, once we realize that financial capital is not the only capital that needs to be rewarded with uh equity and governance rights, which is traditionally the norm in um uh the way our mainstream uh system works, all of a sudden the question is how do we put that in practice? So the fair share commons is creating that sort of legal wrapper that makes this possible uh from uh a legal point of view as well. But how do you do that on a day-to-day basis? And uh at the same time, in the Web3 space, uh a new uh type of organization emerged, the so-called DAO, DAO, decentralized autonomous organization. And it's very interesting to see how this really uh fits perfectly with the FairShare Commons, because the FairShares Commons uh uh effectively uh create a sort of structure where people can make decisions collectively and people can own something collectively. Whereas Dao's uh in practice do the same exact thing, but uh had many limitations in its uh original forms. Namely, uh first of all, they uh are largely not legally recognized, uh, with uh very, very few exceptions, uh, and uh there's still a lot of challenges on actually how to make sure that the DAO uh is uh anti-fragile. That's the term we like to use. Uh how to how do we make sure that the DAO uh is sustainable, the DAO is um robust, and it's not effectively uh risking uh to be uh um literally destroyed by simply having one bad actor. So DAOs in the uh blockchain and web3 space uh have been a major revolution. Uh, there's been a lot of trial and error, so we also, in a way, piggybacking on uh what other uh DAOs have learned so far, what did work, what didn't work, and so on. Uh but combining the DAO with the Fair Share Commons is really one of the big innovations that we're bringing. Uh and surely this can be applied to a lot of different um uh business ventures, it's not something that should only be limited to co-living, uh, but with co-living, we see how this is so natural, it's literally a perfect combination. Uh, and uh once you see all the pieces of the puzzles taking shape, um, I believe you all realize how this can be a major, major revolution. And uh there's major benefits to this, and uh Gareth, you can uh talk a little bit more about the the actual key benefits, for example, for the communities. Uh, if a regenerative community adopts a system like this, there's major benefits. Uh, and there's benefits not only for that, it's benefits for co-living operators, there's benefits for uh the residents themselves. So, Gareth, how would you describe these benefits?

SPEAKER_00: 36:48

Yeah, absolutely, Dan. Um, the benefits are enormous, uh, you know, almost incalculable when you think about it. It's it's it's really exciting. Um, but yeah, as you said, our big innovation was to combine the DAO with the Fair Shares Commons. And in a nutshell, what that means is the FairShares Commons is a multi-stakeholder company, which means it's a decentralized company, decentralized in terms of power and wealth. And a DAO is also decentralized, so you have the decentralized aspect of the DAO and how to govern the community, and it's perfectly mirrored and matched by the decentralized company structure, which is amazing, and that really unlocks all the benefits that we see that enable regeneration. And so when you get this multi-stakeholder decentralized power, as I said before, it then enables a triple win and regeneration across people, planet, and profit. And I know that this is a thing, this is a buzzword that a lot of companies are using now to say, yeah, we take care of people, we take care of the planet, and we take care of profits. But this is different because this is much, much deeper, and because it's decentralized and all the stakeholders have a voice, if an environmental issue is raised inside of you know a co-living community, it has to be taken seriously by management because it's deeply embedded in the legal structures of the way that the company operates. It's a bit like B-Core certification that um is growing in popularity around the world where you know standard companies can get this certification, and that um then kind of legally obliges them to look at improving their environmental sustainability. But what we have here is something much deeper because we're really embedding this decentralized power into the legal foundation of the co-living communities, and we can embed protection of the environment into that legal structure as well. And so this is really powerful over the long term because every small step is amplified and enhanced, and and there is a real um protection of all stakeholders in the structure. For example, in in the Fair Shares Commons, you could have a steward, and a steward is is a kind of like a wise guiding figure within the board of directors, and the stewards could be appointed to represent nature as a stakeholder. So their sole duty is to represent the natural world in nature, and that then you know really influences the decisions that are made inside the company, with regards to the business, with regards to the residents, but all through the lens of how do we protect and enhance the natural environment. And so, yeah. The the regeneration is basically deeply embedded into the legal structure of how the company and the co-living communities will operate inside co-living DAO. And that's really exciting. Maybe we can do a bit of a wrap-up and bring things together just to make it clear exactly what all the major bits of Co-Living DAO are and how it works again in a simple way.

SPEAKER_02: 40:26

Yes, that's exactly it. So first of all, once we identify these uh main limitations, which are uh the lack of ownership and lack of um uh shared governance in uh communities, regenerative communities, co-living communities, and so on, uh we can live in that we really address those by uh effectively utilizing uh the fair shares comments as a legal wrapper, utilizing uh DAO, so decentralized autonomous organization with tokenization. Um so thanks to Web3 blockchain technology, we make it seamless. And uh this presents a lot of benefits, um, which by the way are not limited only to uh the residents of the community. Um, even if you look at traditional co-living operators, there's a lot to gain in there as well. Because traditional co-living operators they're facing a lot of challenges, turnover is very high, maintenance costs are very high. Uh people don't really feel part of the community in a lot of co-living spaces, and therefore uh they're living there mostly because of convenience. And what happens is uh their behavior is potentially not the best long term. I mean, we face a lot of problems, Gareth, where uh some people would trash certain spaces or people would um damage certain facilities and so on. Uh, and uh, when people feel that they own something, they behave in a much, much better way. They're more respectful. In fact, they add value to the surroundings, they don't uh subtract value from that. And uh this means there's major, major benefits for living operators, too. And there's a lot more benefits as well. I'm not gonna list all of them, but certainly it's very clear that once uh a system that includes every stakeholder uh in uh in the decision making and and the ownership uh works smoothly, uh then uh the systems that don't involve stakeholders, all the stakeholders uh effectively um barely have any reason to exist at that at that point. So the only question is how soon uh the old system will be replaced by the new, improved, better systems where everyone achieves uh a win, all the parties involved. So by doing this, there's a lot of other uh benefits, as we mentioned, environmental benefits, uh regeneration, and so on. So therefore, we like to use this term a triple win, uh, people, planet, profit. Uh at the same time, it's clear that uh pretty much everyone involved wins. Uh, what we need to do is um uh simply to make sure that the the system is scalable, which is literally what we're working on, and it's literally um one of the main goals here at Clone Dow, make sure that it can be replicated over and over, and rather than just having one community, that this can really allow the formation of a federation of communities. Imagine living in a community and not just having a lot of friends and uh a lot of facilities in one place, but how about you're now part of a network where anywhere you go, there may be a community there, part of the same federation, and you instantly have friends, you instantly have a roof, you instantly have facilities and amenities in a new place. This can literally shape the way people travel, it can shape the way that people uh live their life. So it's um very, very enticing, exciting vision, and that's literally why we're working on it. Uh, and uh for everyone to get involved, uh if you're here listening to this right now, uh make sure you subscribe to this channel, subscribe to this podcast, and you can join our community as well. And that's the best way to stay up to date uh with the progress and what's happening because there's a lot of exciting things happening, and you definitely don't want to miss out. So, Gareth, do you wanna share some uh closing thoughts about all this?

SPEAKER_00: 44:26

Yeah, that'd be great. Um, so yeah, my closing thoughts are just to recap exactly what what we're doing here at Co-Living Dow. We are effectively a scalable blueprint for co-living communities um to uh replicate around the world, and those co-living communities retain their own independent character, their own independent uh governance, and they're able to shape themselves as they see fit. So they're really independent communities, but as Daniel says, part of a federation, federation of co-living or regenerative communities around the world, and and co-living DAO is really a blueprint that enables that. So this is super exciting, and yeah, uh it's really get great to introduce you all to what we're doing in this exciting work. And uh please do join the community, get on board, and we'd be really welcoming for you to come and be a part of what we're doing. Come join us.

SPEAKER_02: 45:27

Absolutely, come join us. Uh thanks, Garth, thanks everyone, and uh I'll see you all soon.