The ColivingDAO Federation: How to Live in a Global Network of Regen Communities

Ever imagined unlocking a door to a global network of homes with one key? That's the reality Daniel and Gareth discuss on today's fascinating deep dive into ColivingDAO, the federation of coliving communities transforming the traditional notion of what it means to live in shared spaces. This isn't just about finding a place to crash; it's about crafting a lifestyle embedded in a powerful, supportive web. We unpack the ingenious structure where individual communities flourish autonomously yet thrive collectively, providing unparalleled stability and a seamless blend of professional and personal life adaptability.

As we explore the resiliency of a DAO-federated coliving network, we uncover how such an ecosystem can weather economic storms like a collective fortress. Imagine a community stricken by disaster, drawing strength from a federation-wide support system, ensuring not a beat is missed in the dance of life. This episode peels back the layers on how living in one of these communities can evolve with you—transitioning from the vibrancy of youth to the serenity of family life without losing those treasured connections. Join us in unraveling the tapestry of ColivingDAO, where every thread is integral to the strength and color of the whole.

Transcript

Daniel: 0:09

Welcome everyone. It's Daniel here and, yes, we are again back with another episode of ColivingDAO Insights, and I'm joined today, as usual, by my co-host, gareth, as well. Hi, gareth.

Gareth: 0:22

Hey, dan, we're back and I'm excited to get into this episode because we're going to talk about something we haven't really spoken about much before.

Daniel: 0:29

Absolutely yes, and we have hinted a number of times. And the concept of federation, which is what we're effectively enabling here at ColivingDAO, a federation of co-living communities, and this concept, we realized, we mentioned it a bunch of times, we never really went in depth. And that's exactly what we want to discuss today, right, gareth?

Gareth: 0:53

Yeah, exactly, the concept of a federation is multiple co-living communities, and there are plenty of amazing co-living communities out there and new companies popping up, but most of them are focused on building a single community, which is fair enough, because it takes a lot of energy and capital to even build a single co-living community. Right, you need to get a building, you need to brand, you need to get your residence, you need to get all your marketing. It's a huge effort to even found one co-living community, but what we want to make clear today is that Co-living Down is an enabler of multiple co-living communities, not just one. So when we talk about ColivingDAO as a concept, we are in fact talking about a federation of co-living communities.

Daniel: 1:42

Exactly, and we'll explain today exactly what we mean by federation, what the advantages are, what the dynamics will be. Let's think for a moment about a single co-living community. So when you join a co-living space, normally you sign up, you have an agreement with a company where you get a place to stay, you get access to amenities, access to a community, of course, and some other benefits potentially. Well, this does not extend to anything beyond the premises. Usually, maybe the co-living space might have some partnership agreements with some local suppliers, local amenities, or bars or restaurants, anything of that nature. But typically you will belong to that community and not have any special ties or relationships with other communities.

Daniel: 2:34

Now is it possible that one co-living community maybe join some sort of network, mastermind, a support group, with other co-living co-living space owners? It's possible to do that. But that's a nice thing to do. It's good to do. If you're a co-living space owner or operator, co-living operator, it's nice to surround yourself with other co-living operators and support each other, share challenges and so on. That's done on a purely informal, voluntary basis. It doesn't really involve any deep ties or deep structured relationship between the spaces.

Daniel: 3:13

What we're doing at ColivingDAO is actually a little bit different. We realize that because there is so much potential in the world to have co-living communities, they really support each other, not just informally, but really forming part of an actual federation. I will explain exactly what we mean by that. We realize that there is a different way of doing things, a particular structure that enables a lot of advantages. The first thing to say is really imagine being able to join a co-living space, and not only being part of that co-living space, but all of a sudden being plugged into a broader community, broader federation, where you are reaping the advantages of becoming a member of something so large. Now, this is possible because we're using a particular structure. I'll let Gareth go a bit more in detail on how exactly we're enabling that, and then we'll discuss the benefits as well.

Gareth: 4:14

Brilliant, dan. Yeah, so what is a federation of co-living communities? This is how we explain the structure. The federation does explain the structure on a nutshell, but I'm going to go into some of the components of that federation. What makes it a federation of co-living communities? Now, you could have a company, for example a brand, where the aim of that brand is to have multiple co-living communities, but that would simply be a single company with multiple co-living communities. You wouldn't necessarily call that a federation, you might just call it multiple co-living communities because it's more than one. So what actually goes into the ingredients that makes this a true federation? So the answer is in the structure of co-living.

Gareth: 5:06

Dao is an enabler company, so co-living DAO offers a scalable blueprint for a federation of co-living communities, and the way that works is that co-living DAO itself is the enabler company that's us and each co-living community is actually its own company. That's right. It's a separate company, not just a separate community. Now, at first glance this sounds like quite an unusual structure, but it might be something akin. It's almost equivalent to a franchise, where you have multiple branches of the same company, but they all run on the same blueprint. So co-living DAO communities will run on the same scalable blueprint that has been built by us as the enabler company. But this extra difference of the co-living communities being their own companies as well unlocks a load of interesting benefits. So at the local level, each one of these communities can actually brand and name themselves as they see fit. So they don't need to call themselves a co-living DAO community. They could call themselves something completely different. They could call themselves Sky Co-living or any other name that they wanted. Right? They can effectively white-label their own community and they also not just the branding, they have control over how they actually formulate that co-living community. That team of company founders effectively can actually choose how they're going to shape that community and the residents will shape it because of the unique structure of co-living DAO. And so each one of these co-living communities is its own company and its own autonomous unit, but it's also part of the co-living DAO network and it is connected in its structure to co-living DAO as an enabler.

Gareth: 7:03

How do we do that? There's a number of ways we do that, but the primary way is through the fair shares common structure. The fair shares commons is a unique company and corporation format that allows multi-stakeholder ownership and governance. And what? How does that. What do we mean by that in this context? Well, in this context, multi-stakeholder means that there are different share classes, and so Co-Living DAO, as an enabler company, will own a particular share class in each Co-Living community company. So there's a bridge in terms of the share ownership from the enabler company to each company in the Federation.

Gareth: 7:47

But it's also not a one directional thing, right?

Gareth: 7:50

Because that would give Co-Living DAO as the enabler too much power over the individual communities, and we're working on a decentralized structure. The whole point of that is to give power to the periphery, to give power to those Co-Living communities, and so those Co-Living communities also own a particular share class in Co-Living DAO as an enabler company. So there's a double share link between each Co-Living community company and Co-Living DAO as the enabler. What does that mean? That means a whole bunch of things that are really interesting in practice and, but primarily, what it means is that there is an obligation to share resources across that link. That double link enables the sharing of wealth and power and it enables one of the key ingredients that makes this a federation of Co-Living communities and not just multiple Co-Living communities under the same company banner. Does that make sense, dan? And it'd be really interesting if we explore more the share links and the resource sharing across the federation, some of the benefits that unlocks. But does that make it clear why we're a federation and not just multiple Co-Living communities?

Daniel: 9:09

Yeah, that's a great explanation and we can talk a bit more about the resource sharing, the way it works, why it's so beneficial, and then later we can discuss as well the concrete practical advantages in the day to day for the residents too. But what's interesting to understand is that having a number of communities that are interlinked in this particular way, when not only do they share effectively ownership in the same company the enabler company, so they're all shareholders but also they share a certain level of governance. So we'll be talking about the resources. But what I want to emphasize at this stage is that, because Co-Living DAO is effectively a DAO, having a number of communities that are all stakeholders in Co-Living DAO, all of a sudden it's already aligning all these communities around mutual incentive, mutual interest, and that can bring a lot of advantages. Because this means that, first of all, the more successful some of the companies are, the more successful the other companies can potentially be as well. And this also means that, by making decisions together on the direction Co-Living DAO takes, there is a strong connection, a strong element of cooperation and collaboration between communities as well. So we're talking about, effectively, stakeholders in the same entity, which in turn owns shares in all the communities we're talking about, which means that the link is really very strong and very structural. It's not just a superficial partnership or anything of that nature. So having this level of shared governance is extremely important.

Daniel: 10:58

And we mentioned as well the sharing of resources. So imagine a situation where there is, for example, a calamity, for example if there is an earthquake in a location and therefore a certain area is damaged. Now, we've seen these examples already, without the co-living element, just in real life. Whenever there is a country or a region that suffers a earthquake, what do the other countries do? They usually come in and help.

Gareth: 11:25

Now, why do they?

Daniel: 11:26

do that. They don't have to. The reason they do that? There's obviously multiple reasons, but there's a few reasons. One is very obvious and it's the idea of reciprocity. Ok, when someone needs help, we help them. They might help me when I need help, but that's one of the reasons, but definitely not the only one.

Daniel: 11:43

Helping that particular area sustain itself economically, just go through this downside and emerge on the other side and go back to where it was before, maybe continue to thrive effectively has advantages for all the other parties as well, because potentially they were relationship with the area, maybe there was trade, exchanges, diplomacy and maybe other mutual advantages. In simply having good relationships and having the economy flourish in different areas that can only interact with each other really benefits everyone. So it's generally wrong to think that we have this limited pie of resources and if someone becomes poor, the other people become richer. That's not really how the economy works. That's not really how wealth and resources work. However, if we look at the opposite, if we understand that by all growing and thriving we can increase the size of the pie, we can all flourish together, then we understand. Ok, that's why there is this dynamic of mutually helping areas or regions or entities that are in need. So let's see what happens if a co-living, that community suffers a shock. So we talk about shocks Again. It could be an accident, it could be a. I mentioned the earthquake as an example because it's very relatable. There is to understand, but it could be anything. It could be a downturn, it could be a localized epidemic. It could be effectively anything that constitutes a perturbation in the regular flow of the economy and the way a company usually operates. So imagine a company that is healthy and is working well and then it suffers a shock. If this company was isolated, it would probably not survive, even without the help of the company. It would just disappear. However, by receiving that help in the short term, the company is likely to be able to survive that shock and then come back to what it was before or obviously continue to thrive and flourish even more, and this helps the company survive.

Daniel: 13:54

Now I want to emphasize one thing. I know some people might be a little weary about the whole concept of cross-capitalization thinking. Wait a minute. If company share resources, does it mean that the companies that are more successful are funding the companies that are not working well, that are not profitable and not healthy, and therefore lowering the whole potential of the entire structure. That's not what we're talking about. So there's a very big difference.

Daniel: 14:19

We're talking about financially helping a community or a company when the company is in need, because there's been a Black Swan, an unforeseen event, something that is a shock to the system, not something that constitutes a structural inefficiency of that system.

Daniel: 14:40

If a company is not good enough, if a company is simply not doing well, there's no need to go and waste even more resources. If a business model is not working, if there's a reason not to continue or not to continue in a certain place, the DAO can decide hey, this is something that doesn't make sense to do. We would just be funding something that doesn't work. So it's important, very important, to understand this difference. We're talking about helping a company survive when in need, and this creates really a lot of benefits. There's many studies as well that discuss that, and we'll be talking about that in a second as well. Epigarous, do you want to explain how this works in the context of the type of incorporation structure that these companies have, and why this is not just so important but also is already embedded in the fabric of the way these companies are formed?

Gareth: 15:42

Sure, Daniel, Very well put as well. I think the example of an earthquake is actually a really good one. Just to put some context into it what would happen in real life? So let's imagine in the near future there is a federation of co-living, DAO co-living communities and the whole federation is doing well. It's growing, gaining residence, it's making money, it's generating financial profit as a federation, the whole thing is doing well.

Gareth: 16:14

Then along comes an earthquake and it hits a city where one of these co-living communities is located and the building is very badly damaged. Let's say it's even damaged beyond repair. Let's say everyone got lucky and no one was injured. Just to make it a slightly nicer scenario, but let's say that the building was damaged beyond repair in that co-living community. Obviously, it's going to cost a lot of money to get it repaired. They might even need to move buildings, which would be extremely expensive.

Gareth: 16:47

Now, if this was a standalone company, it would need to go out and probably raise investment or get an overdraft from the bank or a loan from the bank or some other big financial vehicle that might not necessarily be available in the context of an earthquake. It's just affected an entire city, right? Sure, there might be some government funding to come in and help rebuild and restructure and so on after something like that. But maybe the money's not available. In that circumstance the company may just dissolve because it would no longer be able to find the finances to move buildings or to restore the building.

Gareth: 17:25

But in the context of it being part of a federation of other co-living communities around the world and having that cross-capitalization, owning shares in the federation through the enabler company, the co-living DAO enabler, this means that the federation is almost obligated. It is structurally obligated to help out parts of the federation that are going through these kinds of shocks and difficult times, because it benefits the whole community if there is help where it's needed, especially if it's temporary help and an earthquake is temporary help. So by having a share holding in the Federation, this co-living community can say guys, we need help, we need some money, what have you got to help us rebuild or relocate? By the way, we're shareholders so we can vote on and we can put forward a proposal in the DAO to say we need some money from the Federation to rebuild and get back to thriving co-living community, to be part of the network again, to be part of the Federation, Because there is real power and there are real wealth sharing mechanisms in the structure of the Federation.

Gareth: 18:43

The Federation will help, Money will come and that enables that co-living community company to recover from the shock, potentially get the money much quicker than any government assistance might come in for our bank assistance because it's on tap. It might be immediate assistance. This is amazing because it really enables a really strong bounce back. What do you think about that in terms of how that works and that ability to bounce back from shocks?

Daniel: 19:21

Yeah, this is critical and something I wanted to emphasize as well. When we say that the Federation is obligated to help a community, we're not talking about any company having to take money away from critical operations they need to run just to help someone else. We're talking about pre-allocation of a fund that is already incorporated in the system that the company operates. What this means, then, is that the companies normally would allocate a little percentage of the surplus to generate to the creation of a fund that can then be allocated for this type of circumstances. Again, some people may be thinking wait a minute to help someone else than a company that's working well had to stop their growth. Not at all. This is already incorporated, it's already allocated for, and everything is happening within the scope that the Federation already knows. In the first place, Having the allocation allows everyone to be able to effectively do this in a very sustainable way.

Gareth: 20:31

I was just going to mention that too that pool of capital at the co-living DAO Enabler company level for such shocks, to enable bounce back from such shocks for the each co-living community company.

Gareth: 20:46

It could be, for example, a 1 percent profit share mechanism where across the Federation each co-living community is giving 1 percent of profits to the enabler to build up that pool.

Gareth: 20:57

Now that doesn't sound like a lot, or maybe it does sound like a lot, depending on if you're from a finance circle or you're not, from a finance viewpoint.

Gareth: 21:06

But there are some amazing studies that have been done on exactly this question and those studies have looked at the concept of ergodicity. Now we're not going to go into that in too much detail, but in a nutshell, if you were to take a hundred companies that were not associated with each other and invest in them, or you take a hundred companies that are connected to each other with a 1 percent profit share, over time, the 100 companies with the 1 percent profit share are far more likely to survive and prosper over a long enough period of time. This is because economic shocks do happen. They do happen on quite a frequent basis. Small shocks, large shocks it's actually a better way to describe the way that the economy functions is to describe it as a series of shocks. Studies have been shown on this ergodicity concept that by profit pooling even 1 percent, it significantly protects an ecosystem of companies that are connected in this way.

Daniel: 22:20

Exactly. This is effectively how the structure works. We've discussed this. Yes, the studies on ergodicity by Dr Graham Boyd are very clear in this sense. For anyone that wants to delve deeper into this, there's an opportunity to just check out Dr Graham Boyd and find out more about ergodicity. In a nutshell, that's exactly what you said, Gareth. There's an opportunity to be far more likely to succeed as a group of company, as opposed to having just isolated companies that don't allocate that 1 percent in this particular mathematical example to the resource sharing allocation Right, Gareth.

Gareth: 23:09

Yes, absolutely. I just wanted to throw in that there is another example in the real world out there of such a mechanism. The Mondragon cooperative of Spanish companies is a cooperative effectively a federation in a sense, as well of thousands of small to medium-sized companies in Spain, and they effectively share resources. They may not have a precise 1 percent profit share mechanism, but they do have a resource sharing mechanism and they were shown to have a very low layoff rate for employees after the financial crisis in 2008. So there are practical, real-world examples and proof points that this does work. It's not just a theory. So if you want to check this out in more detail, have a look at Dr Graham Boyd's book called the Ergodic Investor.

Daniel: 24:01

Yes, and this really explains the structure, the economics behind the model. Now let's talk a little bit about the benefits from a practical point of view. So, gareth, let's say you're a resident, you're a new resident, you just decided to sign up for Kolevindal, kolevindal community, so part of the federation. All of a sudden, not only do you have access to a community, but you also become part of a broader federation which has, effectively, kolevindal space all around the world. So what does this mean to you as a resident?

Gareth: 24:39

Yes, I love this. This is where it gets exciting for me, because we were Kolevind residents in one of the UK's biggest Kolevind communities and so and that's where it brings it home, makes it real right when you're a resident, these things happen. So let's take the earthquake example. If I was a Kolevind resident and the earthquake happened and my Kolevind community company the very next day said folks, I know this has been a really big event and everyone's disrupted and the damage to the building is very severe, but we have the funds allocated already and we're going to relocate across to the other side of the city and we're going to do it next week because we have the funds ready and available. Imagine what that feels like as a resident to have that kind of you know, that support function in place, that you know protection and security that you would feel as a result of that.

Gareth: 25:36

Now I know that's a more extreme example and we can move to some of the more common examples and benefits of being part of the Federation. So let's say you're a resident in London in a Kolevind-style community and you're working for a company in London but they have an opening in the New York office and it's exactly what you want. It's aligned with your career and it fits with your career progression and, in fact, the New York office has offered you a job. Now, if there was only one Kolevind-style community in London and you're loving the benefits that you get from being part of a community that can truly shape itself and have ownership and shareholdings as a resident, you'd be like, oh, I need to go back and I need to go back and find a flat share and apartment share in New York. I need to go back to the normal way of living. I'm not gonna be, I'm not going to be a co-owner in a co-living anymore.

Gareth: 26:37

Wow, I need to give all that up if I want to take on the benefits of that new position over in New York. What do I do? You might be even torn by this decision. Is it job or is it the community that I live in? There's a trade-off. One of the great benefits of being in a federation and our entire structure is that some of these trade-offs are taken away, and that includes for being a resident. If there's another co-living Dal community in New York, at that point in time you will have priority access to become a resident there, because you're a resident in the federation already. How amazing is that, dan.

Daniel: 27:19

Yeah, the ability to really broaden your horizons and not just being limited to a single scope. This is definitely something very unique, I would say at this stage. But also, if you just think about this from a human perspective, we live in a society that is significantly disconnected from each other. Let's say, individuals in our society are significantly disconnected from each other. Maybe you have a small circle of friends, maybe family, but normally you would interact with a lot of people with whom you don't really have a major connection. Maybe you take public transport and there's hundreds, if not thousands, of people that you see on a daily basis. If you live in a big city, you'll definitely notice that Barely say hi to each other, you barely know who they are and what they do. Now, that's just your town where you live. Imagine now going somewhere else where you've never been before. You're in a new place with no connections whatsoever. You're all humans. You could be connected, but somehow you're not. That's just the way society is structured right now.

Daniel: 28:29

Now imagine being part of a community. So, first of all, being in your clothing space where everyone has a connection. It's not just a connection based on proximity, which is great, everyone living in the same place. It's not only based on sharing which, again, it's amazing the ability to share something meaningful with your neighbors, whether it's your time, space, resources and so on. It's also about really all being stakeholders in a similar project in the same project, in fact and all really making decisions together, and that's the advantage of your shared governance. Now let's take this even one step further by being part of a federation, all of a sudden, you are connected with people that are in entirely different locations. So, first of all, even if you probably never met someone who lives in a different community, you really have something in common You're part of the same federation. It means you have a stake in the same federation. It means you have some voting power in the same federation. It means that when the federation grows, you both are better off. And having so many relationships that are aligned in terms of interest, stakes, incentives, it really means that you're not alone and your connection is not limited just to a small number of people around you, but, effectively, you have an increased level of support and a network that simply is unmatched when we look at what's happening right now in the world.

Daniel: 30:05

Now imagine if you decided to travel, for example. You go to a new place. You've never been to that place before, you don't know anyone, but you know there is a co-living in that community. You can go there and all of a sudden you're part of the same family, you're both shareholders in a certain community, you're both part of the same federation. You both understand the principles of co-living now.

Daniel: 30:30

Probably you have many common values as well. Maybe you believe in a fairer, more equitable society. Maybe you believe in decentralization, maybe you believe in a fair share of wealth and power, and what this means is that all of a sudden you have some sort of extended family all around the world and you're never alone again. You can always go and find someone that can be just there, just like you, with you, supporting you if needed, or just sharing some fun and creating some memories together. So the idea of really not just being limited to one community but being plugged into a broader system where everyone is really going in the same direction, this is something I would say unprecedented to an extent, but also it's something so close to human nature that we're really excited that we're creating something like that.

Gareth: 31:29

Yeah, that's what's so amazing about it for me, from the residence angle and we tend to think of these things, as I use this example of London to New York, almost like high paying professionals or moving from one major city to another but you may also move from, for example, london to Mumbai and completely change your circumstances and your way of living, or to Lisbon or to any other location around the world, to a completely different cultural context, but still be part of that extended family, and it also doesn't just apply to different stages of life like that sounds like. It's a very digital, nomad, focused kind of career path or movement path to move from major city to major city. But you might also move according to your stages of life, right, so you're a young, single person, you want to meet other people and you want to have fun in a big city like London, and then maybe you meet somebody and you want to settle down and have a family. Well, all of a sudden, that's an exit point as well. Traditionally, if you were in a co-living community, you would need to exit and go and buy a house somewhere in the suburbs or in a small town If you wanted a quieter, more family friendly life, but in a federation of co-living communities. Let's say you are a single person in London and digital nomadding and spending your time in Lisbon and London and switching co-living communities. Then you meet someone and you want to raise a family. There could be a family orientated, themed co-living Dall community just outside London in the suburbs. You could move there.

Gareth: 33:14

The theme around that co-living community could be for families and, as we talked about in a previous podcast, this unlocks huge benefits for families because family living can be quite isolated. It can be quite a challenging task, especially for two working parents, for example, to coordinate their social lives and their professional lives and taking care of the kids and raising kids and being part of a co-living Dall community. You then move with your life stages and you're living with other families and they're part of an extended family in the federation and the benefits of that are, of course, on the doorstep childcare, which is probably what anyone in the house of family is thinking. Your neighbours become your friends and your co-resident co-owners and of course, they're going to be quite willing to take the kids for a day in the building If you want to go out with your partner and do some other stuff. That unlocks so many benefits. So it's not just geographic location to assist with your professional life, it can also really enhance changes to your personal life, being part of a federation of co-living communities.

Daniel: 34:29

Yeah, what this also does is it takes away the somewhat precarious nature of joining a co-living space with the current system, the reason being a lot of people already know that when they join a co-living community, they're going to leave the community at some point and maybe not keep any ties with that community, and that really affects the way they interact with the community and they really bond with everyone else. Even if we just think about an example of co-living community that a lot of people have experienced, let's say student house, a student house is a moment where it can be a lot of fun. Students can make a lot of friends, but they ultimately know that they will not live there for long. And I'm not just talking about the concept of that particular location, I'm talking about the idea of being in a certain community Now. We co-living now and the ability to relocate within a federation with this unlocks is the fact that sure you may want to change location. Sure you may want to trade the proximity to people that are at a certain stage of life, for example students, with proximity with people that are at a different stage of life, for example parents, when you progress from one stage of life to another. But this does not mean that you have to give up the benefits of being in the community and, in fact, the same community. It's a different co-living space, but it's the same federation. So on a broader level, you are still part of that community. You are not now a complete stranger to that co-living space that used to be your home.

Daniel: 36:10

I see this happen over and over again. A lot of people they feel home in a place and the moment they leave that's not their home anymore. And it's not just that it's not their home because they don't live there, but they just no longer belong there in any way, shape or form. They have no ties, no connections, no links anymore. How different could this be if, even though you don't live in the place anymore, you're still very welcome. You're still effectively, potentially a shareholder in that place, in that company as well. So you have an interest in the success of that company. You have some governance rights and you're always welcome because you now have a strong bond and you're still part of the broader federation. You haven't cut your ties completely. You simply relocate it within the same group of communities. This is something that can make a big difference to the way people approach life, even yeah absolutely.

Gareth: 37:07

And so we've looked at the benefits of the federation of co-living communities at the macro level where if there's an economic shock to each individual co-living community, there's the resource sharing facility and shared governance rights that enable that to recover really quickly from an economic shock, keeping the federation strong and healthy overall and keeping each co-living community company in that federation strong and healthy. And then we looked more at the micro benefits from a residence point of view. What's it like to be part of a federation? You could have like a digital federation passport almost that enables you to seamlessly move around on a short term or longer term basis across those co-living dial communities across the world or within the same country or within the same city.

Gareth: 37:58

And then the benefits of moving not just geographically but being part of that extended family through the different stages of life, from student to young professional to raising a family. You could choose to stay, if you wanted to, within the federation to suit those different stages in your life's journey as well. So we've seen all these benefits from the micro and micro level of a federation of co-living communities, and so we just want to remind the listeners that co-living dial is not a single co-living community, it is a federation of co-living communities which are enabled by us as the enabler company. The co-living dial enabler at the center is what makes it all come together and brings these amazing benefits. That's a brilliant summary, gareth.

Daniel: 38:44

Thank you so much for your contribution. Today it's been great to talk about federation, talk about the macro and micro advantages that this can really offer, and also we discuss what this means to everyone and how life can change drastically in a fantastic way, simply by being part of the co-living dial, simply by being part of something like this. So, gareth, thank you so much for being here and thanks everyone for listening. We will be back as usual, next week, so make sure you stay subscribed to the podcast. Subscribe if you haven't yet, and we'll be back with you next week.