Tate Siemer: From Slopes to Syndication - a Multifamily Investment Story

In this episode of "The Gould Mine," Tate Siemer navigates the journey from house flipping to large-scale apartment syndication, offering valuable insights into the world of real estate investing. Starting with a passion for skiing that led him to Salt Lake City, Tate transitioned from photography to real estate, finding his niche in flipping houses before the 2008 crash. Despite initial struggles, he successfully shifted focus to multifamily properties, leveraging market opportunities and mentorship to grow his company to manage assets worth $80 million.

Tate emphasizes that while flipping houses can generate income, true wealth comes from holding and managing apartment complexes and commercial assets. He advocates for always seeking opportunities in the multifamily market, stressing the importance of establishing strong broker relationships and discerning brokers' value.

Key to success in real estate, according to Tate, are developing a strong vision and mindset, leveraging others' track records for credibility, and taking definitive action to secure deals. He also highlights the benefits of coaching, mentorship, and presenting a high-quality portfolio to make a lasting impression on brokers.

The current market, impacted by rising interest rates, presents both challenges and opportunities, with distressed properties and motivated sellers creating favorable conditions for investors. Tate concludes that building broker relationships and engaging in mentorship programs are crucial steps for capitalizing on the potential of the real estate market in the coming years.

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Transcript

•  What's up gold miners. In today's episode I sit down with Tate Siemer. The founder of Greenlight Equity Group disguising multif family syndicator has scaled his portfolio from Zer to 800 doors and Counting and in this episode we go deep. Some very actionable things that we talk about T and I start by talking about his multi-decade experience in the real estate game. This guy is a true real estate entrepreneur started by flipping houses. In the early 2000s. We talk about how and why t went from flipping houses to syndicating large apartment complexes and we go really deep here on some actionable things that Tate talks about his credibility kit and how he positions himself to Brokers especially if you're brand new how you can position yourself to Brokers and create that credibility to get taken seriously and start getting access to some killer deals and finally Tate and I talk about how to attack the current market given the opportunities that are in front of us and why so many people are running away and how you can Leverage the opportunity in front of you to get ahead killer episode coming for all of you so put those airpods in turn the volume up cuz. This one is a doozy so without further Ado. Let's welcome to the show Tate seamer Tate welcome to the gold M dude so good to be here.
•  Danny thanks for having me you know the the first question that comes up to mind because obviously like you had a past life before you got into real estate. Investing you were a ski photographer yep so how does that happen like walk me through that yeah for sure well um yeah to take you all the way back I grew up in the suburbs of Cincinnati very far away from any skiing of any note and um actually in junior. High started uh skiing uh my first time ever going skiing. It was an all night ski at this little tiny Resort in Indiana um a Resorts not even the word. It was a hill with a couple lifts on it with man-made snow of course and uh it was raining and I was wearing jeans and it was the middle of the night and I fell in love with the sport like I literally just fell in love with I got obsessed with skiing um. I got all the ski magazines back. This was the '90s so actually yeah late 80s even mid to late 80s even so you know the only access I had to any like Media or anything uh around skiing was was basically the magazines and just kind of always dreamed like you know. I remember looking at the trail maps in the magazines and like visualizing myself in different parts the resorts and kind of always dreamed of going to the big. Resorts out west and um long story. Short I graduated from college in Ohio and um worked for a few years trying to kind of figure out career Direction and when I turned 26 I I was like man. I'm gonna be 30 here pretty soon which felt really old at the time and um and and I was like I got to go do something fun and cool before you know. Life gets too too far by me. Here so um. I basically ask myself what I've always wanted to do and it was really really an obvious answer and um I just kind of I didn't throw a dart. At the at the map I I was pretty strategic about picking Salt Lake City but uh I could have literally moved anywhere. I didn't have any connections uh and and so I moved to Salt Lake in October of 99. Last last century I was 26 which dates me and makes me 50. Now. I just turned 50 this year and um and uh yeah so um yeah long story. Short I had a background in photography. At that point not action you know ski any really sport photography um but um I talked my um my first boss in Utah into hiring me and he's now my uh my business partner in real estate for the last like 13 years. So oh wow um we yeah. We've 24 years. We've worked together and and um in different capacities and different businesses so so to answer your question um I I you know I started that the ski photography thing in 99 2000 got into wedding photography. The next year and within two years three years I started my own wedding photography business. Uh was was just hustling hard and um you know working really really hard and not producing the kind of lifestyle that I wanted to produce and kind of stumbled on real estate. Investing. This was 2006 and um just an acquaintance. Some guy didn't really know very well uh. He and I were talking and he's like yeah I'm in the middle of flipping a Triplex right now in Sugarhouse. Sugar House is is a nice part of Salt Lake and uh like really like what like flipping like what what does that mean and like you can do that like it was just so at that point so such a unique idea to me and he was in a course um that that you know was a live. Every week kind of course back before zoom and and kind of online courses or YouTube University and so I signed up for that and kind of got got my feet wet in in entry level single family investing actually my first deal that I bought for myself was a duplex like 110 year old duplex and um remodeled half of it kept the tenants in the other half and then sold it and made like 10 grand on it. And I thought I was like in you know. I thought I just struck gold and figured it all out um and uh so yeah that's really how how the that whole chapter began and there's been a couple pretty distinct chapters in the story uh since then. But that's that's really how things got started. That's awesome man so yeah. It's it's funny like how life kind of takes you in in like different ways. But you know it sounds like you you could have probably taken your life in a couple of different directions like aside from that course like was there that aha moment right I mean obviously the duplex right like that that was a win for you at the time and like that was like the you know a lot of ways. It's like the gateway drug right so like that first hit. It's like oh wow like this is amazing so after that duplex how did like how did you stay re-enrolled like what were some of the things that happened after that that that kind of Reen you know um really good. Question. Danny I can honestly say like between 06 and 08 when the crash really like basically killed the sources of uh funding that we were using um. I did two things I did my own deals and then I also got my uh my realtor license and I worked mainly for other investors that were doing what I needed to or what I was trying to do or was doing uh in the single family slipping space and um it honestly never really hit us hit a really good stride with any of that um either in my own investing or or as a realtor. I didn't love either path at that point um and I and I just wasn't super successful to the to the degree that um would have been really compelling so actually when the crash happened. I was actually kind of almost a little relieved and kind of glad to get out. I remember thinking I'll never do real estate again at all and then and you know the so the crash happen 08 and you probably remember and a lot of your listeners will remember like the market stayed really flat for like four years yeah you know and and so about um 2011. So three years after the crash uh my current partner who I mentioned before his name is Carl Carl York. He uh approached me and said you know um. I was in I was doing a different business at that point and had made a little bit of money and he said T you've got some money. I've got some money. You know I've got great skills with remodels and stuff and and you can go find deals. He's like why don't we team up and and you know do some do some flips together and uh so we started. October of 2011 bought our first deal and really for the next seven years or so went just as hard as we could full-time at uh the single family flipping game and again kind of if you if you think about 2011 through say.
•  Let's say 2018 you know obviously Facebook was a thing through that YouTube was a thing and becoming more and more of a thing um. But you know we didn't even I don't know if you remember or if you have the same impression. But I had never heard of Zoom or knew of that technology before covid. Even I mean the first the first uh multif family Mastermind I was in with Corey Peterson. We didn't have zoom meetings and this was like this was like 2019 19 you know before Co and uh 2018 2019 so long story short. Uh I didn't I didn't connect with like real any real intellectual like leadership or thought leadership in in the space that we were in and and we didn't do things um really as systematically or strategically as we could have uh in retrospect and uh about 2018 I did start going one to our local uh Ria meetings real estate investor Association meetings. We have two good ones here in Salt Lake City. I started going to those meetings and kind of through those meetings. My whole world opened up and as far as other possibilities in real estate um and which eventually led to uh doing what we're doing today in the in the multif family space. But there was you know there was definitely a progression uh between single family and and the multif family space. Uh mainly the the biggest kind of like watershed moment for us was we had a 12 unit apartment like a value ad scenario in Salt Lake City um pretty much fall in our lap like like this. This wholesaler that we had done other deals with brought this deal to us and he said this is a really good deal. Here's how you do it. Here's what the number should look like and um when we kind of sat down and underwrote that deal and I remember looking at it and going man. Like this is this is really different like you've got income and you've got valuation that is determined by income and um when you know when you've got rents coming in. It's just it's. It's totally different look than when you're just calculating holding costs on flips so uh it was really eye openening to us and uh pretty much from that point forward. We did a few other projects out of the multif family space that were finishing a couple projects at that point. But um from that point forward. We've been really focused on apartments. Uh we did a 20 unit after that in Utah and then we I started getting real serious about more like large scale syndication models and uh connected with Corey Peterson um and we joined. His Mastermind I I I got to mention my buddy Adam Adams too who was Monumental for me and getting into multif family. He was kind of the first guy that I ever heard say to me that I could do it and do it well and and have success at it and um. So he's as big a reason as I'm in this space as any but um so yeah. I mean kind of a nutshell version of kind of how we got to where how we got to where we were at least four years ago five years ago. Now I guess um and then you know the kind of since we got. I think it was ended to 2000. We started really acquiring in the large scale space and we uh we got to. We got to 50 million in assets under management about 18 months um. I think that was six different communities at that point and uh we're currently just under uh just right around 80 million in assets under management with uh with 798. Uh units between 10 different communities. Um six six communities are in Columbus Ohio and that U that Metropolitan that MSA if you will and then uh the other four in Oklahoma. Those are our two markets yeah. There's a lot to unpack there.
•  There's a lot to unpack there and what I want to start with actually is is an observation which is and I think that this is an observation that a lot of flippers come like. They eventually come to this realization unless they find a way to scale the Enterprise which I know that there are some flippers who like really truly like create like a a massive organization and like it's systematic and and and that's awesome but for those shout out to my friend Ruby. Tanoko who yeah she she uh what's the name of her course. Flipping might might be like flipping on autopilot or something like that. But I mean she's she flips you know 200 plus houses a year right. And it's all it's just a it's just a system man and she's she's a machine and she teaches other people how to do do that. So you're right. It is possible in single family for sure yeah 100%. And and for most people that flip though it's it's a great way to get rich but what you recognize and what you've discovered and and what I think most flippers end up. Discovering is that you can get rich flipping houses but you can get wealthy you know buying and holding apartments and or other commercial assets or even a lot of single family homes too. So I think I was gonna say you can get wealthy like basically flipping single family properties to yourself and holding them you know like the the bur model is a great model um and there you know there's. The nightly rental model accelerates your income. On those things. There's a midterm model that I think is really worth looking at if you're in the single family space. It's basically you know three Monon type leases for traveling nurses furnished furnace units so there's ways. I think especially these days of of doing it in the single family space that said like you know. I obviously have a podcast called the apartment gurus. We're green light multif family where uh I have uh a mastermind called multif family Octane and I coach. Uh multif family investors oneon-one so I'm all in on multif family 100%. And I I won't poo poo the single family space other than to say that it is uh like like you said Danny. It's kind of a it's. It's kind of an exceptional situation when somebody does manage to scale the single family space. It's more often than not people kind of spin their wheels um and aren't able to really scale up well you know and I'm in a market too where you know the average sales price here in in Silicon Valley which is where I spent the majority of my uh yeah my career. Up until this point yeah. The average sales price 1.1 1.2 million so you know a lot of these flips. They buy them they acquire them for like you know a million and they end up renovating them flipping them for like5 and right. The the the it's a great payday not scalable though because it's like really hard you know there's just not enough inventory um to really um you know to really get there but all right so so well and real quick to your point. It's it's a great payday right. That's it. That's all you got you're not building any wealth moving forward. You're not enjoying any kind of appreciation cycle you're not enjoying any kind of principal pay down on the loan. Uh you know cash flow potential cash flow in the meantime like so you get paid once. That's it over go on to the next one and you're starting from scratch on the next one so yeah good point you know I learned Burr when I was like 24 you. It was like eight years ago poets. I i' listen to Brandon. You know I I see man yeah so stud absolutely and and when I and that was like back in the day right when it was kind of like getting off the ground you know like now. It's his beard was a little shorter back then right yeah blown up since then but yeah you know I was. I was taking all this in and and you know I'd look at the deals in my area and I'd and I'd analyze them I'd be like. There's no way like the the numbers didn't make sense in my like you can't really bur properties in. In the bay I I mean there's exceptions to the rule but like the few and far between the uh you know once you refinance and everything that you know the debt out you know out uh outpaces. The the income your rent your rent will never cover your debt service 100%. And so that's um that's really the biggest issue.
•  So I you know. I learned it and and I got excited and then I was like well. I can't do it in this market and I'm looking at the commissions that I could make so. I'm just I'm just going to prospect for listings and that worked well for a certain amount of time and uh and now uh doing the hotel thing so I want to touch. I I had this question and I wrote it down because you said you're like all in on on multif family. What would you say to the people so actually had a few guests on the show. That have said this what what would you say to the people that uh that say multif family is oversaturated. No well I I think that um it's definitely got a lot of eyes on it right and a lot of uh active um. You know buyers or want to be buyers or potential buyers um and particularly over the last year with interest rates toing what they've done uh bu sellers have pulled back you know so there's way less listings than there were. Uh and sellers are just kind of wait. A lot of them are just waiting this out um until they can sell at a higher level when interest rates come back down um. So I I don't think that um I wouldn't say it's oversaturated because to me. There's uh. There's just always opportunity. It's just kind of the way that my mind works and and I mean could you. J could you maybe do some statistical analysis and come up with yeah. You know statistically. This is it's oversaturated actually never seen that and my my hunch is that if it were the case that we'd see more of that but um even if that were the true like you know we're just. We're dug so far into our markets with great Brokers and great broker relationships that um are are spinning out good deals and that are priced right and that's kind of all I focus on. I don't worry too much about um like the the overall National scene kind of thing and that's you know that's what I train uh my my uh coaching clients and Mastermind clients to to do too is. Just is become really Masters uh in a market and you know in a niche if you will uh and you know really know what you're going for and then man we double double down on broker relations. Um I'll mention a quick quick resource uh my friend bo beeri uh who it's be auau be r y uh be not not Barry so be r y. He's a big high volume high dollar amount. Uh you know High purchase. High sales. Price guy uh broker in Tampa and he wrote a book called um see if I can multif family investors who dominate. I think that's is multi yeah something real close to that um. I think it's multif family investors who dominate and it's basically a manual like a how-to manual on how to be uh a syndicator. You know an Acquisitions investor that uh that Brokers like bring deals to that just they just want to work with Time. After Time right. So this is like a how to written from the broker's perspective mind. You a how-to for us to become really really good at the broker relations game and we've put all of our eggs. In that basket. We did try uh direct to seller marketing for about a year and it just didn't work well for us at all and then our philosophy kind of changed when we got into better broker relationships like we don't want to. We don't want to compete with our Brokers at all right and so if we're going after sellers that's technically competing with Brokers um and you know the other thing is when we moved up in asset class and as far as unit count and you know closer to the kind of 80 to 100 minimum. Uh door count uh those assets are generally like 99. You. Know 95 plus perent of the time are going to get sold through a brook and that's because the the owner Savvy they're it's an investment for them um. They know the business usually and they know they're going to be best represented get the best price if they sell through a broker. So we're kind of just like I said we're all in on Brokers. I would agree you know and and by the way I come from brokerage background and I know that there's a lot of owners out there across all like all. The asset classes that that it's it's kind of like one of these like the the the the room is split right like a lot of people like oh yeah. Brokers are awesome like what you just said and then some people like oh Brokers are the devil. So can I can I can I comment on that real quick please so so to me. They're what you make them yeah right like and and and yeah are there. Brokers out there that are the devil 100% like there's Brokers out there that you don't want to deal with but for the most part they're whether a broker is your is an ally of yours and kind of on your quote unquote Power Team or whether they're just. They're not an asset to you and they don't produce anything for you that's really a lot in in the end in my book. That's really up to you and kind of how you establish those relationships. So let's so let's go deep on this because it it sounds like. This really has worked well for you and I want to spend some time here. Yeah. Let's say someone's newer to the game and because my my guess is that if you are somewhat experienced meaning like five years plus in the in the game you probably have some pre-established relationships or you've already made up your mind that you're never working with Brokers so for someone that's newer to the game yeah what would your advice be to start building. Those relationships like how would you how would you start that yeah.
•  It's a great question and it's it's what but I you know again. It's it's I take my guys step. I take my guys from step one you know determining what their vision is what their mission is in in this space um creating that developing that developing the mindset getting rid of the limiting beliefs all that stuff mind you we're big on mindset and then right out of the gate. We're we're working on um. You know establishing. What Market or usually maybe one or two markets were going to like kind of attack uh and then we just start sourcing um sourcing deal basically getting it. You know all of these Brokers have email lists so we just do whatever it takes to get on their email list. So we start getting deals from them um and we start um you know underwriting the deals analyzing the deals maybe even touring physically touring the deals when that is like next level when you go to the market and and and and walk a place with a broker that takes your that takes your relationship to the next level for sure um so and it's really you know. It's. It's there's no real magic bullet to it. It's really just kind of um how you present yourself from day one and and you know we have. We have tools and resources and and you know ways Strate strategies if you will of kind of how to come out of the gate with a lot of credibility and uh with an impressive looking um credibility. Kit we call it or company profile kit which is a usually a you know. Six page PDF um all about your company and your logo and your team and your strategy and um and we teach you how to leverage other people's track. Records and portfolios in that credibility kit um so that so that you come to town looking like you know what you're doing uh as best you can and of course. We're not trying to fool anybody and and I you know I think transparency is is always the best policy in in especially in this space um. But when you do have like legit people with good track records good portfolios. The ability to get deals closed when you have them on your credibility kit either as like senior advisors or uh advisory. Partners or something like that. Like it you know huge huge huge uh way of elevating your status with with uh Brokers when you when you introduce yourself and meet them so um you know and then a lot of it's just kind of numbers man. It's like you know just at bats getting up there and taking swings and and the more deals that you look at and underwrite and write letters of intent on uh you know even if it's a low super lowball letter of intent because you can't justify a higher price like little things like that go you know that's those aren't necessar little things but that's really how you get it done I want to highlight for the listeners right now some of the things that Tate just says because it's like tiny hinges swing big doors. One my coaches always said Tiny hinges. The credibility kit it's funny right because if you're if you're brand new to the game and a broker sniffs you out that you're bringing to the game you're probably going to get a bad taste in your mouth because you're going to say oh. Brokers are not giving me the time of day and blah blah blah blah blah and it's so well because you didn't put in the effort to make yourself like you said look credible. It's funny what a little like a little Pizzazz you know just just tiny. Little things will do to um to elevate your status right because like ultimately when you walk into a meeting with a broker you talk to a broke for the first time. There's a have you read that book uh uh like Orin claf pitch anything yeah yeah. I have it on audiobook yeah talks about power frames right and kind of when you're going into any situation there. There's there's a status kind of realignment and so if you're walking in you're brand new you know and but you have some of these things lined up already and you've taken the time to to basically create some credibility in the eyes of the broker. Then you're I mean it makes perfect sense to me. What's funny is and and I never had this issue right like I never had this issue. But I I do know of lot of new newer people to real estate investing who really struggle with this uh which is they don't get taken seriously by by the by the Brokers and that kind of negates a lot of access to deals that they could have otherwise had access to so. I think that's a really like awesome idea and um and the other thing too. I think it's just yeah. I think it's just preparation I I think it's just being prepared you know and and and by the way if uh for your listeners if anybody wants to email.
•  Me. I'll send them a copy of our credibility kit. Just so you know what one looks like and what it contains so um Tate atg Equity group.com. I'm sure it's gonna be in the show notes but it'll be in the description. Um yeah email me up and I'll I'll get you a you know. An example kind of you can almost template if you want it to oh. That's awesome and thank you so much for uh for doing that for the audience yeah you said being prepared and it's funny because preparation instills confidence in you and that's really what ultimately gets the deal done right and and totally dude that's huge that's actually something I had even thought of but that is that's a great point that and confidence is everything right. Like you gota. You gota like you got to show at the very least. You can be brand new in this business and if you show a level of professionalism and preparation and confidence like you can still really make an impression on people and um make people want to go to bat for you 100%. And just to just to put a bow on that you know obviously you have your uh your coaching program and we're going to put all of that information in the show notes Tate cool when I when I got into hotels I had I had already done like built a business from scratch and everything and so I knew that it was going to be a massive Hill de climb. I think people highly underestimate the value of really good coaching really good mentorship right from the GetGo I found someone in the hotel space. Mike elely and uh really awesome guy and was really the only person online that I could find that was that was openly sharing how he you know invested in hotels and so I signed up for his program and same thing I you know I I I added him to my Advisory Board. They allowed me to put their their uh logo on my letterhead when I submitted Lois and so little things that exactly and when I went in and talked to Brokers so everything that you're saying right now I'm like oh. Like like Tate is literally describing how I started out so everything like I can vouch for what Tate for what Tate just said is every you know those those little things because when you go in and you can tell a broker yeah you know I work with an organization that has X number of you know assets on our management. You know you don't like you don't have to say that like you know you're the CEO of it right. But like I work with an organization that has XYZ and um it's super powerful. So it's fun. It's like it's really interesting that you said all that because um because I lived it I lived it and it's 100% true yeah yeah. It's it's it's really it's. It's really good stuff and um you know like you said. It's just. It's. It's. It's the little things are are are really become the biggest things like you know you pull out. Like we we would get our credibil. We do get our credibility. Kits printed on you know a high gloss. High heavyweight stock uh. Uh you know paper and have them stapled and everything else. And it's a nice portfolio or nice brochure rather and you know especially when we were getting feet on the ground with with new Brokers and we were sitting down with them coffee lunch whatever or even a property tour and we you know pull one of those out and put it in their hands. It's like you can see it in their eyes man all of a sudden. It's like the the conversation just entered a whole a whole new realm because um number one they are impressed. They're they they respect the effort that you made. They they can tell you're not just Fly by Night number two like it gives them a lot of talking points and a lot of things to ask about so uh you know again. The credibility kit guys like takeway big takeway from this episode is is uh you know if you're if you're trying to start off especially um you know as your own brand as your own firm. Uh as a lead sponsor um you know in any way like put one of these together and and Danny to I think to a larger point that you made the value of paid mentorship paid coaching paid masterminds like cannot be overstated because you're you are essentially buying your first Network Y and I would say that if you're joining a mastermind or or one-on-one coaching program you want to make sure that it's with somebody that has the capacity and the willingness to actually partner with you on deals potentially at the very least they are willing and excited about being on your on your on your team as a Advisory Board member or whatever that ends up being so that you can include them in your promotional materials. You know so make sure that's part of what you're getting when when you go high level with coaching or masterminds which to me is like. There's no there's nothing that accelerates this whole thing more than than doing just that I could not agree more I couldn't agree more so you know one of the things Switching gears a little bit here. Tate one of the things that stuck out to me earlier just kind of like hearing your story and and and what you've gone through I I you are kind of in a unique position because I I don't talk to a ton of investors who have really ridden the last two cycles in full. You know you were in it uh from good point you know from from. Like the early 2000s you saw the the run out you saw the crash in ' 08 and now yeah you've seen what happened over the last like 18 months so yeah.
•  What lessons have you learned these la like these last two cycles because I think you have a unique perspective. You know yeah well. You know I can't say I rode out. The' 08. I did own. I did own a couple rentals I guess through that period uh and it was tough because you know rents were down and and you know there was no such thing as rent increases through those years and um you know I had I had some a couple properties that kind of barely broke even or didn't. Maybe even break even uh at different times but um I got to say you know this last. This last one man this last 18 month is it's just. It's kind of been a little a little bit of like um kind of hang on and try to get through it. The best you can because um the you know we had basically like a quintupling of interest rates in what in a 10 month 12 month period yeah which which you know on a on a sheer. Point basis is not like an historic high but on a percentage basis is not only a historic high but it's unprecedented. We've never seen interest rates quintuple you know if you think about. Had we been starting at let's say 6% if we had quintupled from 6% we'd be at 30% right now right so that's really the degree in some ways the degree to which interest rates went up and you know it just. It's shocked the market in a lot of ways and it shocked the Deb. The debt Market um in ter terms of you know lenders that have pivoted away from lending or have gone to really high LTV or really low ltvs. And and you know very high interest rates. Bridge products for instance um and uh and it's really shocked the equity Market. It's really shocked the limited partner the lp market and uh that we've noticed uh in the sense that a lot of LPS right now are in deals that are are not doing very well uh and it's because they were purchased you at the very top of the cycle and um their you know interest rates are adjusting on the loans or even coming due and um there's actually some really. Unfortunately some kind of tragic scenarios out there that are happening to really good syndicators that you know by all by all accounts a year and a half two years ago were doing things well and and and and doing things quote unquote right you know and um so it's been um and nobody could have predicted this at all. Like it it. It was totally unforeseeable a lot of people saw Corrections coming for sure but to this degree. I mean I think there were like like 13 or 15 or 17 interest rate hikes in 2022. Like some or 2023 rather I I could be I I for I forget. What and I guess there weren't maybe that many hikes but like like because they they only meet certain amount of time but but maybe it was the last like maybe. It's the last 20 meetings like the rid hikes have just been crazy. Uh don't you know obviously don't quote me on any any of those stats. I just tried to get out but anyway um you know and we've. It's caused us to have to Pivot um in terms of our buy box and what we're what we require now of uh properties for us to move forward with them um. We we are in the much nicer property conversation these days as far as uh asset class. Uh you know. We're we're typically at least a b you know maybe a B minus. If we can get it to a B+ or an A minus kind of thing uh. We're newer on Vintage than we were by a long shot uh. We're even writing underwriting some like brand new product that's in lease up uh those sorts of scenarios. Uh we're looking for a consumable loans uh with low interest rate fixed ideally fixed interest rate um things like tax abatements seller financing um you know a deal has got to and and then the other thing we're we're we're trying to achieve. In most cases is a property that will pay a preferred return from day one of ownership uh to our limited partners which you'll put all those together. And it's. It's a pretty tough find um and you know. But it's what we you. We. We closed three Deals in 2023 um. One is one of which is kind of our like the crown or the jewel in our Crown we love it. It's an 87 unit steel factory in Downtown Columbus that was converted to luxury Lofts and um. We did it. We actually that was a one of our. It was our only non- syndication that we've done in years and years. It was a joint venture that we did with another group and uh. But we we did two heavy lift value ads in 2023 that were um just really really difficult to get to the finish line and uh and it really came down to the Vintage of the product. You know they were basically 1970 and one was a little older than that uh and and the fact that they required a pretty a pretty significant lift to get them to the income level that we were projecting and investors just weren't didn't have a huge appetite for um for you know a pro a property. They were going have to wait um a little bit to get start getting paid on you know so uh so that's caused us to to change what change where we are change. What we're looking for. We've actually not been under contract now on a property for about maybe six or eight weeks which is really weird for us like we're kind of always under contract on something always trying to get something to close so um. So it's actually kind of nice. A little bit take a take a little breather from from Raising capital and and putting deals together but um you know. We're always pounding the payment we're always underwriting. We're always like aggressively looking for great opportunities yeah. It's interesting that you say like Hey we're adjusting our you know our buy box and everything I I have to wonder right because obviously the rate adjustments shot the market. But I can't help but feel like the opportunity is just staring everyone like in the face right. Now everyone. It's just like hey oh yeah right and then but like everyone's just like so risk averse all of a it's so interesting because people always want the deal but then when the deal comes up the E like the economics are so like the economy is just so wonky that most people kind of retract so what are you doing right now to kind of capitalize on the like the obvious opportunity because clearly they're there um you just have to know how to look for them and then also know how to sell them to the investors so that they kind of like Get on the the the opportunity train so to speak yeah yeah. Great question I I mean I think I think part of it is understanding the story that you just you just iterated which is that really right now and probably the next like 10 12 months 18 months. Maybe are are probably the Best Buy window that we've had in really 15 years 12 years at least and maybe the best buying window that we have for another long period of time yeah um. Once we get into a positive economic cycle and we start appreciating again uh a and the reason for that is that there's a lot of uh. There's a lot of distress in the market. Uh there's a lot of properties that um need to be sold for different reasons. Uh and a lot of motivated sellers for that reason and cap rates have decompressed significantly because of interest rates and uh you know proformer rents are down. Projections are down because of the economy so um. It's you got to know how how to attack this market and how to buy and that kind of goes back to broker relationships and but also really know how to underrate know what you're looking for um. But I I think this is this is a massive opportunity. This is like this is the ex perfect example of the Warren Buffett thing about run in when everybody else is running out kind of you go in whenever you I forget you be greeting. When everybody else is panicking yeah. You know panic when everybody else is being greedy kind of thing um and so that's I think this is a a perfect example of that and um those that will those that do well and do business and do good business. Over the next you know 12 16 18 months are going to do real well moving forward. Yeah I I definitely agree and and it's weird I was just at a hotel conference. Um tons of ownership groups there uh about a week and a half ago and there were a few people that actually everyone that I talked to was just like three months ago four months ago. We were at the we were at a conference almost all of us and we were like hey like 2024 like it's the year right. So many opportunities are coming up blood in the streets kind of thing and then we were. We were all kind of just like kind of has it quite happened yet. You know we're like. What so what's your theory there because like yes there's opportunity. Yes. There's there's there's blood so to speak in the streets but like it's not. It's not quite where we thought we'd. See it so like what's going on right well. I mean if you think about it like we haven't seen the recession that people were predicting right. I mean like by by all measured accounts. We're looking at a soft landing on this. This e economic downturn thing I mean depending on who you believe but like that seems to be the consensus and so I think um you know. I think that's maybe causing people to settle down and not panic cell as much and uh. And it's probably causing. I'm sure it's causing Banks to be more optimistic on spreads. I mean I the interest rates up until maybe two weeks ago. I think they were down a point and a half at least from their highs. They I think they maybe come back have come back up and by the way this is uh beginning of February 2024 that we're talking about all this but um so yeah. It's it's and it is a good question you're right like where where are all the deals right and where all the really motivated Sellers and where are the bargain and and and whatnot and um and the reality is maybe. We won't see that to that degree that everybody was kind of hyping up yeah but again you just got to be you got to have your finger on the pulse with um and I was I was talking to one of my coaching clients. This morning who uh you know is is like in a great submarket himself and one that has a lot of national attention on it and he's got a lot of attention from people that want to work with him like boots on the ground and I'm like dude. All you need is like one two like ideally maybe two or three but even just two. Just Killer broker connections that you're getting great opportunities from yeah uh and and you know you get two three of those a year from those guys and you get two of those like. You know a deal do want a deal a quarter in commercial multif family as a you know as a pretty new firm and a new investor. A new lead sponsor like that's very respectable and it's some. I think it's a good actually a good. Pace to shoot for in your first maybe two years of doing business. Uh if if you can turn things up to that degree and you're able to put um you know the equity together and everything else. You know all the your teams and sponsors. Everything you need to get those deals done uh. That's you know you're doing really really well so um and so I I guess. I'm just going back to like ultimately taking Advantage. Maximum advantage of any Market in my opinion is just that kind of back to that the whole ethic around broker relations and and you know again if you want to make it easy for yourself go get Bo be's book. I have I I have no reason to push it. I bought 20 or I bought like 30 copies of it for my coaching clients and nice and give it to each one of them uh because it to me. It's just a masterful efficient uh guide to to doing this game at a really really high level level and what and specific the specific part of the game which is is sourcing great opportunities. Yeah. We'll uh. We'll go ahead and and put the name of and and Link it up in the in the description as well. Tate we're actually coming up on time man want to be respectful and and whatnot so in traditional Gold Mine fashion. Why don't you leave the audience with one final gold nugget gold nugget yeah yeah. Um. You know I'll just go back to this and and take it for what it. I'm take it for what it's worth. I obviously am a I am a a a a coach I I coach what I consider to be really Elite entrepreneurs in this space and uh we have a small Mastermind group that's super tight. We know each other really well. We help each other we partner with each other. So I'm I am biased. I I'll admit that that said if I hadn't joined Cory Peterson's Mastermind in 2018. 2019 had him like he at that point he actually produced my credibility kit. He had a he had a a employee working for him that designed it put it all together like we came up with some some copy. But he and his wife Shelly were on it as as partners with us and and not only that. But Corey gave us the um just the confidence to start talking to you know having conversations with Brokers that are marketing 140 unit 160 unit type properties and uh and it was because he was on our credibility kit. He was willing to partner with us on good deals and he was at that point a stud in the in the in the space. He still is but um he you know he he had a. He had a and he's just a confident guy anyway. So he he gave us like. He just put us light years ahead of where we otherwise would have been so that said you just nothing nothing beats a paid. Co coach mastermind leader uh or Mentor uh and and you know you just there's nothing you can do to accelerate things uh in my opinion more than that not to mention the network that she'll get to be a part of uh with the right group. So I'll leave it at that Danny I couldn't agree. More Tate thank you so much for your time and this was awesome and and hoping that we could do a part two sometime because I can tell there's we only scratch the service there. Buddy I love that man keep talking for hours so yeah. I feel that too dude I feel that too let's do it. Sometime I love it sounds like a plan brother.