Very Audacious
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Very Audacious
"Jada, Too Much Information!"
Sean Tripline and Jalen Baker discuss stuffing v. dressing, Adele (again!), Jada and Will Smith, public-personal narratives, marriage and separation, and a Christian witness.
Welcome to Very Audacious, the podcast where we audaciously delve into faith, culture and everything in between. I'm your host, sean Tripline, and we're not holding back, so buckle up for this audacious ride. If you're as daring as we are, don't forget to like, share and subscribe. What's up, vafam? It is so good to be in this space today. I pray that you're doing well. This is another time that we have come together. I was glad when they said unto me let us go into Very Audacious so that we can talk about what's going on in the world. Yo Jay, what's up, man, how you feel.
Speaker 2:What's good, bro? What's good, bro? I'm feeling better, man. The fall sniffles are going away, buying, buying. They're getting up out of me. But you know what, bro? I'm in days right now. I don't know what it is, but I'm ready for Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is, I'm just saying the Thanksgiving holiday is coming soon and I'm just dreaming about the dressing, the turkey, the pies. It's all starting to formulate in my mind. I'm ready for grandma to start cooking already. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a blessing right there, that's a blessing just to think about it. It's a blessing about it. Now, I'm also thinking about conversations we've had years past, right, about one word you just said, and it's almost like a curse word to me. You said dressing, what is dressing?
Speaker 2:Oh, Lord, here we go. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:What is this thing called dressing? Can you open that up for us? What does that mean, brother?
Speaker 2:See, you know what's funny about this? You make fun of me for like and pumpkin spice stuff, but to me and you'd be like you know what are you doing culturally? But culturally I don't understand what you're doing, calling dressing stuffing. What in the world is that?
Speaker 1:Oh, are they the same thing?
Speaker 2:They're the very same. No, no, no, no, they ain't the same thing. Dressing is better and dressing is what's appropriate to call what we eat. Everything's given. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:Dressing and stuffing per. What I understand about dressing is the same thing. So this is the way grandma makes it okay, she starts out with some cornbread. Now, sometimes it's homemade. Sometimes we lazy and we use Jiffy. All right, jiffy and stuffing bro.
Speaker 2:That sounds awful.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we're lazy. We do use Jiffy sometimes.
Speaker 2:You be eating sweet dressing. The dressing be sweet.
Speaker 1:Jiffy is not particularly sweet. They have versions that are sweet, like they have a honey brand and they've got other stuff like that, but the normal one has just enough sugar in it. It's not a lot. So you do the stuffing, you make the stuffing, then you got to cook down the turkey or whatever you know normally it's turkey, like turkey necks or something like that and you cook that down with some onions and some celery and all the herbs and spices, whatever, and then you got to mix it back into the cornbread. You mix it all together and it comes together in the oven as a very beautiful and vibrant dish that partners well with turkey and cranberry things whether it's cranberry sauce or cranberry relish or whatever and it's very, very tasty on the Thanksgiving table. But we call that stuffing, brother, that's stuffing.
Speaker 2:You know what's fascinating? I'm going to just address the elephant in the room. I guess it depends on who grandma is making the dressing, who grandma is making the stuffing. What is her ethnic persuasion, as we would like to say?
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, okay, oh. So this is one of those cultural things I've had stuffing.
Speaker 2:the way you describe it, which is basically dressing, is not how some people, ethnically, of a particular ethnic persuasion, make stuffing. Oh okay, maybe we'll just leave it. They use bread crumbs and croutons. Oh no, no no, no. It's like ooh Lord, y'all need Jesus.
Speaker 1:No, that's called stovetop stuffing. That's stovetop. Okay, that's the stuff. A lot of times that's the stuff that come in the box where they make it, like the stuff in the box where it's croutons and stuff. That's stovetop. That's not the stuff that we make.
Speaker 2:No, there you go. You said we. I like how you said we.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the other thing about Thanksgiving is kind of a tenor issue.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's a southern thing too. Maybe it's maybe in the south. If you came into my family's house and say you got some stuffing, they would look at you like you, straight up, crazy. They might ask, they might tell you to leave. Honestly, oh no, you've entered into a sacred space and you are not excommunicated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my family's not that bad. They're not going to tell you to leave, but they're going to talk about you after you leave, though.
Speaker 2:No, my family, my family, try for it. We'll talk about you in front of your face. Yeah man, yeah man.
Speaker 1:So I'm looking forward to that season. It's definitely going to be a blessing. I already know. Now we're probably going to have to do something a little bit different with me, because I have plans to go to a football game on Thanksgiving for the first time. So we want to see how that goes. Green Bay play, yeah, green Bay play on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:So I'm looking for Detroit.
Speaker 1:of course it's Detroit Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we need some redemption, so I'm praying that'll be the day that that'll happen. But yeah, you about to travel too, brother, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I'm going to Vegas this weekend. I'm about to go see my girl, adele, in concert. You know everybody talking about T Swift and Beyonce and you know you know all their concerts, but you know I'm going to do this. I'm about to go see my homie, adele, saying the roof off of Vegas, the whole state of Nevada, but to be shook by the voice that is Adele, and I can't wait. I mean I'm very, very excited.
Speaker 1:He is pumped up. He's pumped up this early birthday gift Going to Vegas to see Adele. The way he talk about it, you would think he about to go see the Las Vegas, you know Raiders or something. The way he talks about it, you know he got all this energy talking about Adele and he going to be, he going to be up in there talking about hello.
Speaker 2:I'm about to be rolling in the deep. I'm about to be rolling in the deep. He said we could go, but we're rolling in the deep.
Speaker 1:Y'all pray for Pastor J.
Speaker 2:Pray for him. Pray for him, hey, pray for me, but also have joy for me. I'm about to have a good time, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what's up, brother, hope you enjoy your early birthday trip. So, family, let's talk about what we talk about today. You know there's a lot going on in the world and you know last week was kind of heavy, and appropriately, and I think we have. We need to have serious conversations when, when the time merits it as it pertains to the things in the world, but this week we're going to talk about something a little bit more familiar perhaps, and I think that when we think about the different stuff that we see in social media day to day, it can be kind of taxing now, and I'm going to just say that this is a, this is a topic that everybody's been talking about, even if they don't want to talk about it, and that is Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith and all that we have seen from them this year and the past few years. I want to say, for those that have missed the story, of course, they have publicized a lot of their marriage and have been doing so.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't say they, I would say she. She has publicized.
Speaker 1:She. You know, it's funny that you say that, jay, because Will Smith a couple of days ago you know you make a great point because Will Smith a couple of days ago puts out this post on social media and he says official announcement right, and he starts it out by saying this is what I think about this, and you know, everybody's waiting for him to talk, and then the camera just pans out to the rest of the room, then you can see his house, and then it goes out into various galaxies, you know, and he says absolutely nothing at all. And I like to say that this has been primarily Jada that has been bringing their marriage to the forefront, not just in 2023, but for the last few years. So what are you, what are you taking away from this? What are your thoughts about this controversy? Because a lot of people are saying on social media I am sick and tired of hearing and seeing Jada on my devices.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm definitely in that cap of being tired of it. But you know, what I think is interesting about this is that Jada Pinkett Smith has managed, in my opinion, to almost turn Will Smith into kind of a sympathetic figure, which I didn't see coming personally, because after Will did the slap on the Oscars with Chris Rock, I thought that his career and his image was over, like his public image was just never recovered from that and I was like, oh girl, jada Pinkett Smith out here just talking, and it's like the more she talks about their marriage in particular, I think a lot of there are obviously many, many different opinions about this, but I think a lot of people out there are feeling sorry for Will because it's like Jada, why do you continue to talk and talk and reveal and reveal stuff about y'all's personal private life? Cause it's like Will Smith is a very public person. He shares a lot of stuff about his life, their life, and he has never gone into this grave detail about their personal marriage. Two years ago Will Smith came out with a book and he shared a lot. He shared about his childhood, his struggles, all kinds of stuff in that book. Nothing was about them being separated for the last seven years. Them like only showing up for each other in public sometime, like they did at the Oscars, like you know, no entangle. It's like he didn't share anything, right, like because that's private personal stuff that he didn't want to divulge.
Speaker 2:But Jada, man, jada just makes us look at Will Smith almost like like a victim sometime, like he is a victim of her transparency, right, because it's like she goes on talking about two pod. There was a, there was her soulmate, and it's just like girl, why are you telling us this? Why do we need to know this? And we and I feel like a lot of us is like poor Will. Poor Will, which I thought that none of us would be saying in the culture after the slack. Poor Will, we were like dang Will really messed up. He slapped Chris Rock on national TV. He ain't gonna ever come back from that. And now we're like dang Will got it out because Jada is just flaming him all the time. So I think that's fascinating, that she's kind of, in her rhetoric, turn Will into this sympathetic figure by some, and I think that's been very good for him in some ways. And yeah, jada, just she's just out here. Her transparency is interesting, but it's also like girl. We just don't need to know all that.
Speaker 1:You know, I agree with everything you said. The only thing that I can add to that, my perspective, is I think that in general, when not just in pop culture, but in a lot of things, I always look at things kind of side-eyed, you know, just like you know, when we talked about Deion Sanders a couple of weeks ago, you know, and the things that he said, you know, for publicity, you know, and I said, like you know, I don't really take it serious. You know, I really do not take Jada or Will serious, you know, and I honestly believe that in today's world there are so many individuals that thrive in the space of creating controversy. Controversy is like the X factor. It's like the ingredient. You know, we talk about cooking soul food a lot of grandmothers, you know and vegetables that are bitter, whatever else. They put a little bit of sugar in there just to kind of balance it out. You know, like there's certain ingredients that just make things work. You know, and really, when we look at those who thrive in that space of, you know, the public sphere and the headlines and the tabloids, it's all about controversy. You have to create controversy for some of them to actually be in the forefront. Think about Kanye West, you know, and how he thrives, you know, with controversy. Think about Kim Kardashian. Think about Donald Trump, you know. Individuals that you know are not necessarily surviving despite of controversy, but it seems as though they create it because they're thriving in that space. That's their brand. Their brand is to be on, you know, either the cutting edge or right at the edge of appropriateness, or right at the edge, you know, just whatever it takes to be relevant.
Speaker 1:And when I look at all of it so we think about the pandemic 2020, we see the whole talk of the entanglement. Jada potentially has this affair with August Alcina, this R&B singer, and this is the talk of 2020. Oh, there's Trouble in Paradise, right. And then you see the next year, will puts out this book. You know his autobiography that you've already mentioned. Then you see the next year, he's slapping Chris Rock, you know. You know, on on. Now, that to me seems a little less. You know, hard to plan. The way that, I mean, the way that it happened. It did feel like, wow, did this really just happen? It didn't seem staged, right, it didn't seem staged.
Speaker 2:No, he definitely snapped, he snapped.
Speaker 1:He snapped. You know, it seemed. It seemed as though that was real anger. And then now their headlines about Chris Rock that recently came out. That could probably feed the narrative of why he was fed up with Chris Rock. But it was a strange place, man, very strange. And now you see that was 2022, now 2023,. Here it is. Oh yeah, we've been separated for the last six, seven years, you know.
Speaker 2:She said basically divorced, basically divorced.
Speaker 1:Basically everything but legally right. That's what she says. That's what she says. And, brother, and I'm being real, I'm being real, I struggle with believing the narrative. I'm being real, I struggle with I mean all of this. To me, just, it seems like we're gonna find a way to own headlines. You know, in our 50s, as if we were still in our 40s, you know, the same way, you see, cardi B and Nicki Minaj and Britney Spear I mean, she's another one in that, in that bracket. In a way, we're gonna find a way to stay relevant. And for me that's how I'm reading all of this. To me, it's like there's too much. There's too much to this narrative that seems circumstantial, like no, I think that this is something that they have thought through, and there's news that they're going to put out a book together. I think the proposed title is don't do this at home, or something like that that they're planning a book together. So I think they have a strategic plan and they're executing it. That's just me.
Speaker 2:You know.
Speaker 2:So I think two things can be true. I think there's probably some truth to what you're saying, but to me, how I read Jada Elise is so I think that Jada's brand in the last three or four years, ever since she sort of launched the red tabletop right, is that she has tried to make her transparency, her philanthropy, right. I'm gonna be transparent about my life, about my marriage, about my family, about everything that's happened in my life, so that I can help people heal in their lives, right. Whether it be through broken relationship with your parents, whether it be through relationship with my children, with my husband, whatever it is, she has been transparent in such a way to where she really, as said, to your point, that she wants to help people heal through transparent conversations about real issues in life, and I would say that she's succeeded in some ways in that right. I think that she has helped people in their lives by having guests on, by having, like her daughter and her mother on the show every way at a certain point, talking about these real issues in people's lives, right. So that is transparency has been Jada's brand for a while now, and the way I read this most recent thing, with Will in their marriage is transparency going way too far? Right, I just think that there are certain things, man, that you just gotta keep just in the house, right, like, keep this like basically like between us. Like we just don't need to know the ins and outs and the intricacies of your marriage right Now. Isn't it interesting for us to consume? Sure, it is right.
Speaker 2:I watched the interview she did with Holder. I was fascinated by it, by so many things she said, right, like when she said that when Will was going off on Chris Rock, like keep my wife's name at your effing house, and she was like it was the first time he called me his wife in a very long time I was like what the heck is wrong with you. It's like, ooh Lord, have mercy, what? So that's the. I mean, look, that's the. It's fascinating, right.
Speaker 2:But the reason why I think I'm grown tired of them to your point is they have embraced sort of the culture calling them hashtag relationship goals, right, people talk about Will and Jada and rap songs and music. Yup, like, you're right, will and Jada is a brand within itself. It is something that people aspire towards because they've been married for 20 some odd years and they have not to your point, like, try to resist that branding. They have not tried to resist sort of being called relationship goals. I mean, bro, they was basically divorced and Jada's worth for seven years and people will still out here calling them relationship goals while they were not together. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think that there is something to your point, but for me, I just think Jada has just taken it too far. I think that there has to be a line in your transparency and as much as you wanna be open with your life, open with yourself, it's like you gotta like something has to be just for the family, just for us, and not for the brand and not for the book or whatever. You know what I'm saying. And I think Will Smith did that right, like when he came out with his book. His book did extremely well, sold very well, new York Times best seller and he didn't talk about any of this stuff. It was just about his life, his upbringing. You know what I'm saying. It was a normal memoir and Jada just took it too far. She just took it, I think, way too far. So, yeah, that's kind of how I read the situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So here's my, here's my problem here. All right, If you're gonna make your brand about transparency, then I gotta hold you to that. That's my issue, because you can't say for me that your brand is about transparency and helping people to heal by our block and then go six years without. Oh yeah, by the way. So let me say this, let me say this Not only do you say we're separated, but you paint it in such a way like I barely know this man.
Speaker 1:You know, and I will say, I will say, despite my being a very highly spiritual person, go on social media and look at some of the memes. Boy, I get a kick out of those memes man. And one of them had Jada standing next to Will and the caption was well, truth be told, I've never met this man in my life. Yeah, I mean, how do you make relationship goals being a part of your brand, transparency part of your brand? But leave out that very large, you know bit of information. Now, that does not mean that it's not true. It does not mean that perhaps they've gone through a journey and doesn't mean that they can't reconcile if that's the case and fix things. You know, I pray that they do you know, not just for their public persona, but because what we understand the institution of marriage to mean and to be. So I mean, I certainly hope and pray the best for Will and Jada, but it's hard for me with all of those details. There's too much cognitive dissonance in that for me to take them serious in that way, and I think that you agree that they're not the model for anyone. They shouldn't be but they have a platform that many of us do not have.
Speaker 1:Now you brought up this element of transparency and I do wanna say that, despite of might be in a little cynical, you know, as pertains to Will and Jada at large, that, yes, there is something to be said about transparency and sharing. You know, what comes to my mind is James, chapter five, somewhere around verse 16 to 16, you know it talks about, you know, that element of us confessing our sins one to another and praying for one another so that we can be healed. You know that's what James five tells us is that there's an element that we must share, like we need to be in community. But you know what do you think about? You know the idea of all this sharing on the platform of social media and you know before people. I mean, this is just a glorified reality show, right, mm?
Speaker 2:you know. So, if I'm being honest with you, I, at the beginning of Red Table Talk, I was actually kind of a fan I ain't gonna lie to you because I think that Jada, at least in the beginning, like the whole image of her, like the three generations her daughter, obviously, her as a mother, and then her mom Gami, right, the idea of them coming together, three generations of women, and just kind of hashing out their family histories, right, their own stories, their own backgrounds, talking about marriage, talking about relationships, talking about they talked about like what it means, like personal happiness, all that kind of stuff. And it was beautiful to see these three women come to the table and really hash out some things in their lives. And for us to see them talking in such a transparent way gave us room to use them as a mirror for ourselves, right, because everything they were talking about I think so many people could relate to.
Speaker 2:We all can relate to troubling relationships that we've had with our parents. We all can relate to, you know, relationship struggles that we've had. We all can relate to struggling to relate to our parents because of generational gaps, all that kind of stuff, right. So I think the idea of it was beautiful, right, and there were a few episodes there where I watched like a few episodes in real life. This is really really good right. But then when you get the August stuff, the entanglement stuff and you got Will Smith sitting here, basically, oh my gosh, he's basically, you know, listening to like when that happened.
Speaker 2:I just don't understand why Jada couldn't talk to her like her daughter and mom about that, you know, like she always does, like, why bring Will into it? Well, that was my first question. And then the other question was like Will? I mean that conversation was fascinating on so many levels On so many levels. And again, why do you have to share in this way? I get that August came out first instead of he was in relationship with Jada, so they had they felt like they had to address that. They addressed that part, but you didn't have to do it the way you did it. Right Again, transparency gone way too far.
Speaker 2:And I think, when it comes to social media, to your question Tripline I think that transparency is a powerful tool to use on social media, but it's not sort of this sort of end all be all tool to where I have to share everything. I think that we have to be strategic in our transparency. Right, like we're transparent in some ways on this podcast when we talk about our lives and stuff, but we're not gonna share that, just every detail that ends and out of our lives, just for the public. Right Like we're thinking about what we're gonna share just to make sure that it's gonna be edifying to the listener, and I just think that more thought can go into that sort of aspect.
Speaker 2:When it comes to Jada Pickett Smith and this gets to your earlier point of like, she knows how this is gonna sell. She knows how people are gonna react and she knows that her book is gonna sell millions of copies. Now we all I'm not gonna buy it. The interview was enough for me, but so many people are gonna buy this book ready for it, and I just gotta say this to Tripline and I'm speaking as a man here To hear Jada Pickett Smith continue to talk about, to pop the way she does right, just like this was my soulmate.
Speaker 2:We were rock for each other and it's like yo, I get it, y'all were cool, y'all had a special bond, we get it. But my goodness, you have. Well, this is what I thought before the interview, but it was like you got a whole husband, jada, a whole husband. And it's like I gotta feel a certain kind of way here in my wife continue to talk about a man and what she talks about to pop for the last 20 years. She was talking about this for the last 20 years and it's like I don't think I've ever heard Will speak on this particular point before.
Speaker 2:But this is where you feel sorry for Will. It's like why does she continue to talk about another man in such a way to where it's like, if he was still alive, would you be married to him? Is that your ideal partner? What you gotta do, did you be married to him for the last 23 years right in front of you, girl, you know what's so is like I'm just I can like that stuff. She got a chill on the two-pot stuff. Like just, let the man rest in peace. You know I'm saying and and then I Should laugh at it. But they're saying that two-pot cat ala Pisa. I'm just like Jada, why, what? What are we? What are we doing? What are we doing, what are we doing?
Speaker 2:What is that.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It's like to your point, do I even? I don't even know if I believe you. I don't even know if I believe you because that's just too easy. I got a la pisha. Chris rock made fun of me for my ala pisha and guess what's how? Ala pisha to poxical, sort of this model of black masculinity, and guess what y'all? He had a Alapica to girl by. I don't even know. It's like, if you don't get on somewhere, just be quiet. That's that's literally what I just feel myself saying that like, please be quiet, stop talking. You know I'm saying so. Yeah, this is, it's been a fascinating ride that we've had with the Smiths and it's gonna continue on to your point, because it makes money.
Speaker 2:It makes money it is good for the brand.
Speaker 1:It's great for the brand but, jada, too much information, too much information. So it's funny. I'm gonna come back to this two-pot thing, but I do want to say that. Isn't it ironic. You know her doing two-pot like they do Jesus.
Speaker 1:You know the being Getting somebody's the standard solidarity with you and ain't around to say whether or not they actually want to be in solidarity with you. You know, like like with the world, this man, let this man rest. You know why are we, why are we dragging him into you? I mean to me, if you really love someone, then you would be slow to evoke their name. You know, in every little thing that you know comes up in your conversation, that's just me, you know. But too much information, you know.
Speaker 1:Scripture says in Proverbs this is a private 17 the one who spares words is knowledgeable, all right. So you don't seem as if you have more knowledge or more wisdom because you're talking all the time. Those who truly are knowledgeable, those who have something worth worth saying, do so sparingly. They do so strategically, and I think you're absolutely right, you know to that point. But when I think about, you know, her bringing up to pop and of course, just recently there's been, and I guess, I guess you could say someone's been charged With his murder.
Speaker 1:After all of these years, the, the uncle of the individual that to pop and others Allegedly beat up the night that he was killed. You know, when we think about her, talking about him being a soulmate, and talking about him Alopecia and all this other stuff, you know You're part of the reason why people still think the two pockets been alive all this time. You know, because when I think about the fact that you keep drinking him up, it seemed like it seemed like you were sending him messages. We all thought that two pockets in Cuba, somewhere, you know, and and when she get on the camera talking about to pop, I'm thinking what the reason she's doing this is. Because to pop probably is still alive, you know, and she and she's sending, she's sending a message to him through the airways.
Speaker 2:But.
Speaker 1:But but honestly, you know, it is so odd to me Thinking about him, thinking about will I understand that they have a platform that none of us have. You know very few people in the world you know have that platform but I just, I just don't. I personally don't see.
Speaker 2:You know how I can look at them and you know relationship goals or model anything you know after the way that they have presented their business, yeah, you know, interesting about that, just going off right after that point Um, is that what's fascinating about them is that Both of them have said that divorce is off the table. Hmm, right, because Jada was asked multiple times why haven't you just divorced him, why haven't you just divorced? And she says that divorce is like just the last option. And she even said an interview that like she's always gonna be there for him, she's gonna take care of him when he's old, and will have said on numerous occasions that divorce is just not, it's not even an option. I'm never getting divorced, right.
Speaker 2:And as a Christian, you know, you hear that and it's like okay, that's that like it's a fascinating view of marriage that they hold divorce and such high esteem Even though, even though they've been practically divorced right, they hold it such a high esteem and it's like we're just not gonna give up on this commitment that we've made to each other. And you know, I think that's a really good question. And you know, we've been very, very close to each other and you know, you know it's like we've been very close in our relationship, we've been very close to each other and we've been very close to each other. And as a Christian. You know, I hear that, and there are just reins of biblical truth that I hear in that I don't think they're practicing yet. Just to be clear. Right, but we think about marriage as Christians. Right, you know, we're getting married because we're in love with somebody. We're not. We're not. We're getting married because we want to be happy with this person. Those things are definitely a part of it.
Speaker 2:Right, but for us as Christians, you know, marriage is God's design as a covenant and is viewed as a, as a solemn and binding commitment that we make before God. And what's interesting about it, right, is that scripture is not shy about saying that marriage is going to be hard. Right, scripture, actually scripture teaches us that marriage truly is not designed to make us happy all the time. But the ultimate goal of marriage is to make us more spiritually mature, more holy and more Christ-like, because in marriage we are committing ourselves to loving another human being through it all. Right, when a conflict happens, particularly within a Christian marriage, right, the goal in a Christian marriage is for that conflict to end. Ultimately, this conflict is not going to be our end, but the conflict that we're having is going to end, and the way this conflict is going to end is by me dying to myself, you dying to yourself and, ultimately, both of us submitting ourselves to God so that we can figure out the middle ground, which is truth, so that we can both walk in the truth and freedom that God has for us and not in the truth and freedom that we conceive of ourselves. And that is just such a beautiful way for us to get closer to God, for us to grow in our spirituality and maturity.
Speaker 2:And marriage provides that right and challenges and tests. Marriage presents various challenges, right, and God views these challenges not as a primary means for you to get a divorce, but as a primary means for you to grow in me, for you to grow in Christ, for you to spiritually grow. And the key to overcoming these challenges in marriage is spiritual growth, spiritual maturity, right, and that, ultimately, is what leads to a non-divorce within a Christian context. Right, we're not getting divorced. Not because we're sweeping things under the rug, not because we're repressing things, not because we're going to just be a martyr in the marriage and just do everything I spouse wants so that it can be happy. No, we're going to avoid divorce because we're going to grow in our spiritual relationship with Christ and as we grow in Christ, I'm going to become the person Christ wants me to be, the person Christ needs me to be, so that I can be the husband and the wife that I need to be to make this marriage function. And I think Will and Jada are trying to achieve that in some ways by taking divorce off the table.
Speaker 2:But I think it's hard to achieve that tripline without that covenant with God, right Like, we don't have the tools, naturally, to truly reconcile and to truly like, like, like, manage conflict to where it won't lead to the seven years separation that they've been going through. Right, I think God, a covenant with God, is hyper-necessary to navigate the intricacies and the complexities and the challenges in a marriage, and I think biblically we have a framework to deal with that. So I thought that it was so interesting they took divorce off the table because as a Christian, I'm like oh, it's interesting, I can vibe with that, and it's interesting how worldly people have this desire to be married in the right way but sometimes worldly people don't have the framework and the tools necessary to really achieve that. I think that's what you need God for and I think that's why marriage is a sacred institution.
Speaker 1:That's very rich, very rich, and I think that is interesting that you say that, not not just from a Christian lens, but it's interesting from a Hollywood lens. You know, in a space where you see, you know people divorcing, you know, after a year or two, whatever else is like, they get divorced as quick as they get married. You know and you see that this couple, despite of all of the pressure, despite of all of the attention, despite of all of the narratives that others have for them not just the ones that they've crafted themselves that they've made a decision, it seems to not legally divorce. And I think that you know, to everything that you just said, there's reason, as Christians, for us to sit back and look at that and to discuss that fact alone. You know, I pulled up a text first Corinthians, chapter seven, verses 10 and 11, and it says To the married I give this command, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband, but if she does separate, let her remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband, and that the husband should not divorce his wife. So the language yeah, the language is interesting in Scripture. The language of divorce and separation are distinct in various spaces in Scripture and we need more time to really open that up.
Speaker 1:But I do think there's something to be said here. Whereas there's a lot of brokenness in marriage, not just in the world, but in the church as well, absolutely, I felt it in my own family and a lot of that brokenness really, for those of us that are single, really shapes some of our view of marriage and in some ways, you know, contributes to our fears regarding marriage. If you, if you I'm serious if you want to, if you desire, you know, a healthy and godly union. You know in that way, and you look out into the world and you see that so many, you know, marriages are suffering. You know, for one reason or another, if not completely given up on. You know, we look at Will and Jada and we say, hmm, you know, they're still together, at least, at least legally, and there still seems to be a degree of lasting commitment. I don't remember her mentioning her, her taking care of him at old age, but that's profound, you know, like that statement with the Bible, like that statement within itself is profound because there's a sense of lasting commitment.
Speaker 1:And I wonder, you know various perspectives on marriage, you know, would you consider them. You know from a Christian lens, a married couple. You know if they don't live in the same home but still have this degree of, you know, enduring connection. You know I'm not sure where where I am, even in terms of framing that, but I'm aware from my own family, my parents. You know their process of being separated and then divorced. And then you know when I think about many others that are in that same space.
Speaker 1:You know that last part of Paul's words in verse 11, that the husband should not divorce his wife, and this is following this mention of separation. You know there might be some merit to this concept of let's just hold off, you know, and figure things out and create space and and and perhaps you know, work towards reconciliation when that is a possibility. Now, of course, there are other things at the perimeter of this. There's still question of sexual ethics and all of this. Of course, there's still financial considerations and all of this. Of course there's a lot there. And Will and Jada, given that they are multimillionaires, you know our living lives are different than the rest of us and have different decisions to make. But, yes, I think your thoughts, as well as putting this in the conversation with this and your thoughts being seeped in scripture really does open this up. It's fascinating.
Speaker 2:It is. It really is. It really is, yeah, and that's why I think engaging with things like this in the culture through a Christian lens can be helpful, because it helps us friends, it helps us frame our perspective on something like marriage, relationships and that kind of stuff right now. That that's why I think it's a little bit bigger, as much as we laugh, and it's because this, this stuff is funny. It's hilarious, really is there is a hilarious components of this. These are real people that are navigating their lives the best way they know, how. You know I'm saying like they're doing the best they can and this is how they see fit. They, this is how they see fit to do it. So, open about it. You know, sit in the culture and people are talking about it.
Speaker 2:It now gives us an opportunity to reflect, right, and this is where I really do give Jada a lot of credit. Right, she does offer her life, her perspective and her experience as a mirror to the culture to so many to reflect on their lives. Right, she does that massively in some ways and in some ways that it's just not helpful at all. And you know that's just being a human being. She's a flawed individual. It makes mistakes, so she's not gonna be perfect.
Speaker 2:But that's where I do see Jada as a very interesting figure for myself for personally because she does offer this mirror up to the culture and says this is how I'm handling my life, how y'all handling me, right? Like, how are you dealing with your marriage? How are you dealing with your husband? How are you dealing with marriage or strife? How are you dealing with separation?
Speaker 2:Right, and when we pose those questions back to ourselves, it makes us think about, you know, these very real, tangible things that we're going through in our own lives. And that's the opportunity that I think we have when engaging with culture, engaging with things like this. It offers opportunity to sort of put our own selves in the proper framework so that we're not making the same mistakes that Jada and Will has. And I think that Jada will say that she's like the reason why I'm so transparent is because I don't want you to make the same mistakes I've made. She would say that, right, so I'm not coming for it all when I say she's made. We all make mistakes, right? So, yeah, I think using it as an opportunity for that is also useful as well when we're engaging with these issues.
Speaker 1:Yeah, on an elemental level, I absolutely agree with you and agree with the earlier statement. You said that there is some there's good in having transparency on a certain I mean, of course I critique, you know, the extent of the transparency but Absolutely, because I think there's some details there that could have been helpful, you know, in the last five years. But I do agree that it is very useful to have these sorts of conversations, of course very audacious, as a space for these types of conversations. You've got two pastors here and we have our various demographics and things, and I think that our conversations speak to things that others won't, and I think that others need to have similar conversations as well. I wanna say that for those of you, this is a shameless plug. This is a ministry plug. For those that are part of very audacious community and if you've gotten to this point in this podcast, you were part of our community Um, um, daily, the Lord has placed upon my heart to do daily words of inspiration and reflection based off of scripture, and you can find that on Facebook, whether that's, you know, through the church pages, movement Monday, bethlehem Baptist Church, or I share it to my personal page as well as Instagram.
Speaker 1:It's on the very audacious page. It's tagged, it's a collaborator, tagged to that page daily as well. On Wednesday the word didn't know we were gonna go here, but Wednesday the word was on Hebrews 10, and it talked about us coming together. And Hebrews 10 says and let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good deeds, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another. Now, the reason why I bring this up is, while it is so key for us to have transparent conversations, those conversations are fruitful and effective for helping us analyze within intentional community. You know, and I think that that is something that we are cultivating in this space at very audacious and think that something that we envision for the future of very audacious is really building a community through this particular outlet, be it the podcast, be it the daily inspiration, be it videos that we'll do in the future. But really, I wanna talk just for a minute about the local church, because watching these things on social media, seeing these things on TV, there's absolutely merit to the statement that this can really foster good, you know, sound bites that can help us to think about ourselves in a more critical way, in a more constructive way, but what you do with that beyond there, you really it was really determined by the community that you're in.
Speaker 1:You know the text that we have in Hebrews chapter 10, says very clearly that community is not just for the sake of community. It starts in the beginning. It shows us how to provoke one another to love and good deeds. We need provoking. We need that provocation because life happens, life goes in various directions. We're trying to figure out how to address it, how to respond. We're on defense.
Speaker 1:You know, whether that be marriage or another relationship, whether that be some other component of your life, you know, and really being in a community where you can not just reflect but share, you know not just. You know be internal and you know kind of keep everything within oneself but having someone to bounce that off of and to pray for you and to encourage you is that that's the next level. You know that's Jada, that's Jada 2.0, you know Jada 1.0 is let's talk about life and be real, love it right. I mean that's similar to this platform love it right. But 2.0 that I pray that we will get to and I pray that we will see in every church is the space to not only be real and be transparent, but also to be able to share one another in a way that is fruitful and the way that is building up one another to love and good deeds.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen, amen. That was beautiful. That was beautiful, and I think that may have been our benediction right there, but that was a good word, man, that was a great word.
Speaker 1:Well, if that's the benediction brother, I wanna say to everyone that's here. You know, thank you for this space. Don't forget to like, share and subscribe, follow Everywhere you see this podcast. You know, I believe that there is a reason that Red Table Talk existed and will exist again, apparently because it's coming back. Of course, you know, I think there's a reason why that exists and I think that there's a reason why this space exists, and when you engage with us whether that's simply liking it, post on Instagram or Facebook or following this podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts you were saying to the world that this space needs to exist as well. So we thank you so much for doing that.
Speaker 1:I believe that that's a part of evangelism in 2023,. You know, when we engage via social media, that's actually a part of the way in which we demonstrate to others that these things are valuable. You know it's part of, and that's part of our worship. You know All worship is. You know we break down the word, the etymology of worship. It is worth and ship means the quality of Friendship, is the quality of being a friend, sportsmanship is the quality of being a good sport and worship is the quality of something having worth. When you declare the worth of something you are worshiping. So I pray that whatever communities you're a part of your church, you know this podcast. Make sure you are sharing those things to others so that others can join you in your worship. Yo Jay, close this out. However you wanna close this out, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2:No Triflion, yeah, I got. I have to say this only because I know that some of our listeners might be thinking the same thing. So that was a beautiful thing you just did, it was so great. But I have to admit, when you were breaking down the word worship, when you said a word and then you said that is the second word, ship, I definitely thought you cussed, you definitely left, you definitely left, you rushed that P bro, that P. You didn't enunciate it and I was like I think is he giving us a theology of the S word right now? But you know, I know your heart, I know your sentiment. I only say it. I only say this because I know some of our listeners. They were like past the Triflion over here breaking down cuss words. My God, my God. So you know, I just wanna let the listeners know my brother did not cuss.
Speaker 1:No, not to stop.
Speaker 2:He just said that word a little too fast. He didn't look too fast, he didn't enunciate it, he was talking about worship.
Speaker 1:Worship, Worship. All right, let me, let me get that P out there. Worship, All right. Now let me just talk about Jada. A little controversy ain't gonna hurt us now, all right, you know, somebody just woke up. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's good for the brand.
Speaker 1:I mean I didn't realize I did that, but if I did it, you know it's good for the viewership all right. So somebody just woke up listening to this podcast.
Speaker 2:That's it, oh man, y'all have a great week, man, we'll see y'all next week.
Speaker 1:All right, see y'all take care, god bless.