What’s the secret to balancing a demanding career and a thriving family life? Join us as we uncover the answers with Dr. Francine Harper, a Licensed Mental Health Counselor, Board Certified Behavior Analyst, Professor, Wife and mother of three neurodivergent sons. In our candid conversation, Francine shares her journey from high-powered executive roles to flexible positions that accommodate her family's unique needs. She provides actionable strategies for prioritizing responsibilities, maintaining mental health, and fostering open communication within the family.
Ever wondered how to teach essential life skills to teenagers with disabilities? Francine opens up about her personal experiences, detailing the importance of family collaboration, structured environments, and empathetic parenting. She highlights her approach to nurturing independence in her children, supported by her husband and other family members. From teaching coping skills to fostering self-advocacy, Francine's practical advice is both inspirational and deeply insightful for any parent navigating similar challenges.
Considering a career change or looking to enhance your parenting approach? This episode is packed with valuable insights into balancing professional ambitions with family responsibilities. Francine discusses the nuances of career flexibility, the benefits of leaving high-stress roles, and the importance of supportive dialogue between partners.
Additionally, we explore the concept of Black liberation in parenting and the transformative power of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). Whether you're a working parent or simply seeking personal growth, our conversation with Francine Harper offers a wealth of wisdom and encouragement to help you make meaningful changes in your life.
⏰ Chapter Markers ⏰
0:00 - Juggling Family & Professional Responsibilities
13:43 - Parenting a Teenager With Disabilities
21:07 - Balancing Career and Motherhood
33:21 - Navigating Career Changes With Family
46:44 - Reevaluating Career Goals and Parenting
52:06 - Motherhood Challenges and Strategies
1:00:05 - Teaching Children Coping Skills
1:07:31 - Parenting With Self-Advocacy and Respect
1:18:13 - Redefining Parenting Through Black Liberation
1:25:06 - Career Insights and Parenting Tips
➣ For Guest Appearances, Sponsorship & Bookings: shxtmom@gmail.com
➣ Visit our official website: https://www.ForShxttyMoms.com
What’s the secret to balancing a demanding career and a thriving family life? Join us as we uncover the answers with Dr. Francine Harper, a Licensed Mental Health Counselor, Board Certified Behavior Analyst, Professor, Wife and mother of three neurodivergent sons. In our candid conversation, Francine shares her journey from high-powered executive roles to flexible positions that accommodate her family's unique needs. She provides actionable strategies for prioritizing responsibilities, maintaining mental health, and fostering open communication within the family.
Ever wondered how to teach essential life skills to teenagers with disabilities? Francine opens up about her personal experiences, detailing the importance of family collaboration, structured environments, and empathetic parenting. She highlights her approach to nurturing independence in her children, supported by her husband and other family members. From teaching coping skills to fostering self-advocacy, Francine's practical advice is both inspirational and deeply insightful for any parent navigating similar challenges.
Considering a career change or looking to enhance your parenting approach? This episode is packed with valuable insights into balancing professional ambitions with family responsibilities. Francine discusses the nuances of career flexibility, the benefits of leaving high-stress roles, and the importance of supportive dialogue between partners.
Additionally, we explore the concept of Black liberation in parenting and the transformative power of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). Whether you're a working parent or simply seeking personal growth, our conversation with Francine Harper offers a wealth of wisdom and encouragement to help you make meaningful changes in your life.
⏰ Chapter Markers ⏰
0:00 - Juggling Family & Professional Responsibilities
13:43 - Parenting a Teenager With Disabilities
21:07 - Balancing Career and Motherhood
33:21 - Navigating Career Changes With Family
46:44 - Reevaluating Career Goals and Parenting
52:06 - Motherhood Challenges and Strategies
1:00:05 - Teaching Children Coping Skills
1:07:31 - Parenting With Self-Advocacy and Respect
1:18:13 - Redefining Parenting Through Black Liberation
1:25:06 - Career Insights and Parenting Tips
➣ For Guest Appearances, Sponsorship & Bookings: shxtmom@gmail.com
➣ Visit our official website: https://www.ForShxttyMoms.com
This episode of FSM is brought to you by Fidelity Behavioral Alliance, your number one source for behavior change. Fidelity Behavioral Alliance creates behavior change programs for schools, parents and organizations looking to reduce problem behaviors and improve performance outcomes. Find out more at wwwfidelitybehavioralliancecom. If you would like to sponsor an episode of FSM, email us at shitmom at gmailcom. That's S-H-X-T-M-O-M at gmailcom. M-o-m at gmailcom. It's time to put the kids to bed, so y'all get ready for another episode of For Shitty Moms. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of FSM. I'm your host, deloren, and today we have a very special guest here from the Sunshine State. As always, I am going to allow the guests to introduce themselves and then I'll give a little background information on how this interview came about. So, without any further ado, our special guest today is Francine, and you can tell me. What do you go by? What do you prefer, dr Francine, dr Harper, francine.
Speaker 2:Francine is fine for our interview today.
Speaker 1:Okay, so thank you so much for joining me and I'm going to pass the mic over to you and let you go ahead and introduce yourself. You're going to just tell the audience who you are, your career, your background, your credentials, things like that, and that'll kind of guide our interview today.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, hello. My name is Dr Francine Harper. I am a licensed mental health counselor and a board certified behavior analyst. I'm a multiple business owner and a adjunct college professor as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely and, as always, typical FSM fashion. I like to give a little background information. Dr Harper, dr Francine and I, we actually were introduced to one another during our doctoral programs. During those research courses you kind of take the classes with everyone. So we were the same cohort and we really hit it off. We connected with one another and pretty much stayed in touch and just our friendship just started to flourish. From there we supported each other through the program, kind of bounced ideas off of each other, and we've had the pleasure of watching one another grow academically, professionally, personally, all of the above. So I am so thankful to have you on the show and I am really looking forward to where things go today. You gave us your background in all of the different areas that you work in. So I want to kind of dive into that a little bit and have you give us an idea of what that's like. But then, before we jump into that, give us an idea and some insight into your family life. What does that look like?
Speaker 2:family life. What does that look like? Okay, I am a wife and the mother of three. I have an adult stepson, I have two minor children at home. I have a 16 year old that has autism moderate to severe autism who will always need support, and I have a 13 year old son as well. So I'm the mom of three boys total and, as with any mom, it's a juggle. It's about prioritizing and juggling and making sure that everyone's needs are met.
Speaker 1:And it's really important. I really wanted to highlight everything that you do professionally. And then I also wanted to shed light on your family life, because you have a lot on your plate, and I say that just to any of our listeners. You know, to them it may sound like a lot, to them it may sound like a lot. As someone who has a little more insight, who knows you a little more than just our average listener, I can attest to it that it is a lot. So today I really want to hear from you personally and then I'll probably ask you professionally as well. When I do the interviews, when I have the shows, I really want the listeners to get a feel for the individual right. But because you have such a specialized background, I feel like I am going to have questions. Our listeners are going to have questions as well. So today's show, I'd like to just present it as you know, whatever comes up, whatever the questions are, how would you answer it personally? And then how would you answer that professionally? Just, I think it'll be a little fun to go behind the scenes.
Speaker 1:We don't always get mental health professionals and you know, mental health is a hot topic. It's not as taboo as it used to be. It's actually encouraged for people to discuss those topics now, whereas before, a few years ago, that was something that was considered really private, right, and if you had questions, you really didn't talk to people about it. You probably didn't want to be judged by it, and now I feel like we have a platform where, if something comes up, if we are experiencing something or we have experienced something, maybe there's a chance that one of the listeners is going through the same thing, so maybe you can shed some light on it personally and how you manage yourself as a mom and a professional. Okay, all right. So as far as your occupation is concerned, give us a day in the life of what does that look like for you? A?
Speaker 2:day in the life of Francine. Well, I am up between 4.30 and 5 am every morning. I began prepping for the kids their breakfast in the morning. Pretty much every day they get a hot breakfast. A lot of people tell me I'm crazy for that, but I do get up and I prepare breakfast for them in the morning. I get them up, I prepare breakfast for them in the morning, I get them up, they get ready for school. My oldest son goes to school with my husband, who works at the high school that he attends. I then transport my younger son to school and then I go to work. I also work for my local school district as a behavior specialist consultant and I'm there from 8 to 4.30.
Speaker 2:A typical week. On a Monday or a Tuesday I come home. I may see three or four clients mental health clients on Monday. Tuesday evenings I may also meet with some doctoral students. Wednesdays are my free day, which means I do nothing but come home and prepare dinner for the kids. Thursdays generally I teach a live class for master's students, and Fridays is another free day where no one else gets my time but my kids. Saturday mornings I typically may see three clients and after that it's all family time. Sunday church family time preparing for the week.
Speaker 1:So it's busy. My schedule is booked, jam packed all week. Oh my gosh. Yes, and you say that like I can see you, the listeners, can't you say it with a smile on your face? That is a lot, and I just want to clarify. So the behavior. Specialist position that's your full time district.
Speaker 2:I do a lot of trainings and professional learning opportunities for staffs. If there are any behaviors that they feel that may need to be looked at from my area of expertise, then I may be called out to go to a school to assist other behavior analysts or to provide on-site support for the staff and attend meetings give some feedback on how they should proceed.
Speaker 1:Okay and then? So after you finish that job, then you go into the other jobs on like either your teaching I just want to clarify for the listeners you're either teaching in the evenings or you are seeing patient. Do you call them patients or clients?
Speaker 2:Clients.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then you see clients like your mental health clients after a full day of work. I just want to clarify that for the listeners, because all of this is happening in addition to you juggling the regular nine to five.
Speaker 2:So that is correct, okay. That is correct, but I do have to clarify that on Mondays and Tuesdays I typically don't have any responsibilities with the kids. There's supposed to be all my husband's responsibilities, but I will if I have time. I will cook a quick meal some nights, but if not, it's all on him.
Speaker 1:Okay, gotcha, and that was going to be my next question, gotcha, and that was going to be my next question. So it sounds like you're extremely organized to have this schedule in place. And then it also sounds like you and your husband kind of tag team together with this, with the schedule.
Speaker 2:Yes, we have to coordinate or it won't work. It won't work for either of us to coordinate or it won't work.
Speaker 1:Okay, it won't work for either of us. Okay, and that's important too, sometimes just getting ideas on how to manage yourself a little better. I know I'm always looking for that and for the listeners if there is anyone out there I know some people are like, oh my gosh, I heard your show. That mom does so much. I can't do half of what she does. But sometimes I'd like to point out that we're not always doing these things by ourselves, right, you have to kind of tag somebody else in, whether it's a grandparent, a spouse, a relative Sometimes in order to get all those things done. You may not be able to do everything on your own, and I don't want anyone like beating themselves up if they can't do all of those things, because you do have a support system as well. So it's not just you doing all these things and that's still. It's still a a lot. So how does how does that work with your husband? Is he like, okay, I got it. Or is he like, slow down, don't do anything else? Like how does that dynamic work?
Speaker 2:I think, because he's just as active as I am outside of the home with he's in school. He has some private clients himself because he's in the behavioral realm as well. So we just balance. It's not about a slow down, it's about okay, we need to get our schedules coordinated and every once in a while we have to change our schedules or alter them so that we can make sure that we're both taken care of and I do have family support if I need it. My mom is local If I need, if there's a teacher work day and me and him both have to work, she comes and watches the kids.
Speaker 2:In the past, when my kids were younger and my son was in therapy, without my sister's support I could have gotten nothing done, because she would take the school, she would transport to therapy, she'd pick up from school. So it's about knowing when to ask for help, when you need help. And even with my kids being older, it's like, okay, they have something that they have to do to contribute to the house to help us. So even my 16 year old that has autism, he has responsibilities. It may be putting the water in the refrigerator or taking out the trash, and the same with my 13 year old. I may have to ask him, say hey, I need your help. Can you do X, y and Z so that they're not completely dependent on me all the time?
Speaker 1:Okay and give us a little insight. Sometimes I think right now, with the interviews that we've done, we maybe have spoken to maybe one person with a child with special needs. So how does that look? Give us some insight into managing everything that you have on your plate and then a child with special needs. How does that work? How do you make it work? What does that look?
Speaker 2:like, has a lot more independent living skills. It's a lot easier than when he was younger, and I think and I have to say this because I understand that a lot of parents are in survival mode, working in the field and working with kids with disabilities, and they're just trying to get through their day we had to make sure that we taught Ethan certain skills so that it would make our lives easier. You know, we do monitor because he is Ethan. I call him shady baby, even though he's not a baby, because if you are busy and if he can get away with something, he's going to get away with it. So we do monitor, but I can have sessions and at home in my office, and he knows, if this door is closed, not to knock on the door or to keep the noise down. On occasion when I've said, hey, I need you to be quiet, if he didn't want to be quiet, he'll go to my bedroom on the other side of the house and lay in my bed and look at TV there.
Speaker 2:So it really was about teaching Ethan some skills that every child needs to learn so he can shower independent.
Speaker 2:He can take care of most of his ADLs independently. So what it looks like is some, maybe some verbal prompts for him, like okay, it's time to get up and he knows his routine, so he'll do it. Um, but he is a little what we call in the aba realm prompt dependent on me to. So he'll wait for me, because I do escort him to the bathroom, make sure he gets started and then I walk away okay. So really the only difference I would say with another teenager than with ethan is just those verbal prompts to tell him what he needs to do next, because he understands everything and it's just being a little more cautious in reference to safety issues. So I don't let him use the stove. We're in the process of getting ready to teach him how to use the microwave to heat, make popcorn and things like that. So I think it takes extra planning as far as he's concerned, but compared to some families that I know, it's not a big difference with having him around.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I'm just sitting here listening as you describe everything that he's doing, and to some people that sounds like the dream, right? If you have a kid with special needs and they're able to achieve that level of independence to where, as a parent, you just need to check in from time to time, that's amazing. Even if you have a kid who doesn't have any special needs, that's awesome. That you all are to the point where you just kind of check in to see if he needs a little support and then you can still do other things around the house if you need to, that is amazing. How did you get to that point?
Speaker 2:I think. Well, you know, I credit a lot of that to my husband. My husband has worked and has had a business working with adults and kids with intellectual disabilities before I met him. So when it came to us having a kid that has autism, that has an intellectual disability, I credit him because I wasn't in the field, that wasn't my area until after I had him. So just I credit him with making sure that we let him do things for himself, because oftentimes parents are that hindrance, because it's like, nope, I'm just going to do it, it's easier. And some things I did do because it was easier and we needed to get out of the house at a certain time and I was able to back off from that and it's like, okay, I need you to do this and I would walk away, because if I walk away he would do it Okay.
Speaker 1:Now, how does that work?
Speaker 2:Because you say you're a mom of three boys. My oldest son is an adult. He is a long distance truck driver and he left home at 18 pretty much and started school that didn't work out for him and then was able to secure a variety of very well paying jobs was able to secure a variety of very well-paying jobs. He is married, so he has his own family, and so we see him occasionally, because he is all over the country right now driving.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay. And then you have another son. That's two. Now you have another son I have, yeah. So my youngest son is Emery. He is also neurodiverse, he has ADHD, but you wouldn't know it. He is a high achieving student. He's a musician, he plays the French horn and the trumpet. So he is, he's very intelligent, very bright. And let's see, what else can I say about Emory? He is, he's going to make sure that if he has to do something, his brother has to do it too. So that's another reason why Ethan is so independent, because if he has to put water in the refrigerator, then he'll tell you it's Ethan's turn next. Oh, wow, okay. So they really bounce off of each other, because if Ethan sees Emory doing something, he's going to want to do it, or he's going to at least try it.
Speaker 1:Oh cool.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I think our family balances out pretty well. They both look out for each other and they have a pretty good relationship. Ethan is. He's verbal, but not as verbal as we would want him to be, as far as I'm not going to use the ABA lingo, but he, the intraverbals I guess I am going to use it aren't where we would want them to be, so it's not conversational when you're talking to him, but he can definitely tell you what he wants and he tells his brother all the time get out of my room, no, leave me alone, Stop, Put that down. So he does talk. So it's functional. It's very functional. It's very functional.
Speaker 1:Okay, awesome. So with everything that you just described, how do you make time for your marriage?
Speaker 2:So we have to plan. We have to plan when we're going to go out without the kids and, honestly, we make them go to bed at 930. Ok, ok, when the house is quiet, we have time to talk. Compare what's going on, you know, because he's just as busy, like I said, he's in school completing his degree and so, and then we'll plan dates and we'll go out and leave them with grandma.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:Or we may play hooky and they may be at school and we may take a day.
Speaker 1:Oh, I like that, ok, school and we may take a day. Oh, I like that, okay, so wow, I'm in my mind like if I were to be jotting down notes right now. I'm like scheduling, scheduling, schedule. It sounds like a lot of like you said it multiple times coordinating scheduling, but it seems like you guys have really found a system to work for you, so that's amazing. Now we've talked about family, we've talked about work With work. I want to circle back. Would you describe your workplace as an environment that was mom friendly?
Speaker 2:Most definitely was mom friendly. Most definitely because I work for a school district and the kids always come first when you're in that environment. So that goes for the employees too. The kids come first, family comes first, and so if I need to leave to go take care of something with my kid, it's not an issue. So it is a very work. It's a very family friendly environment and I take off when I need to take off because the job's going to get done regardless. My job's going to get done regardless and they know that I'm going to do and I'm going to produce the work. So I have no issues. Whenever family needs me or if there's a field trip for one of the kids or an event at the school honor roll, what have you I can get up and leave my job and go.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, and I always ask that question because when, in my opinion, when we talk about motherhood opinion, when we talk about motherhood, a lot of women, even today, really have to choose between the industry that they work in, what types of opportunities and jobs they want to pursue, and what that looks like when you bring children and families into the mix. So I always pose that question to all of the guests because maybe someone out there is listening, they're considering doing something in a certain field, but they're probably holding back because, oh, I have kids, I don't know if the work schedule would work out with the kids' school schedule and so on and so forth. So I like to give insight so other listeners can have an idea. If they're thinking about something, then maybe that option, it might be a practical option for them if the field is a little more family friendly or mom friendly. So I like to ask that question.
Speaker 2:So I'd like to say that I have not always worked in positions where I have been able to prioritize being a mom. I was an executive director and a program director for a long time when the kids were younger and honestly, I had to make a decision once we got Ethan's autism diagnosis to step back because at one point he was in therapy four or five days a week with three different therapies. So that wasn't conducive as a manager and an executive director. And I do remember having to fill out paperwork to do the FMLA so I can take therapy. So, and I had the master's degree in counseling and my husband told me, he's like you're sitting on that degree and you're not getting licensed. And I was like, well, we would have to pay someone for supervision or I'd have to quit my job and make less money. And he encouraged me to quit the job and he's like we'd make it work. And I took a job as a therapist, which was that first insight into wait, I can make my own schedule.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I only worked when I wanted to work. Then the pay was okay. It was fee for service. Back then I think it was maybe $34 an hour, which was pretty good back then 10, 15 years ago. So at that time they really became spoiled. Because if there was no school, guess who didn't work? I didn't work if it was a holiday or a spring break, and some days if it was raining too hard, I didn't want to go to work.
Speaker 1:That's nice OK.
Speaker 2:But I was able to. That's when I realized that there are jobs and career paths where you can be flexible as a mom and, honestly, for a long time I felt like I did sacrifice my career for my kids. Because I was in executive leadership, I was in management, and that's when I started the doctoral program, because I wanted something for myself, even though I wasn't working in those high management positions. But what that allowed me to do was create a new normal with a lot of flexibility to work where I want to work, whether it's completely for myself or for someone else. But the work that I do is so specialized that I'm an asset. If I choose not to work at the school district, I can work completely, 100% for myself, and the family would be okay, we would be okay and it would give more, even more flexibility.
Speaker 1:Okay, Now I have a question. This isn't from the list or anything like that, but do you sometimes find yourself find that you miss having those higher positions, the executive positions? Do you miss that at all?
Speaker 2:Honestly, no, right now I don't. At times, I think you, when you see other people and they're being leaders and they're making decisions that you know aren't quite maybe the best decisions, and know that you have that expertise to do their jobs better, so at times it's like, oh, I can't believe they did that. Maybe this should have happened this way. You want to dibble back into that area, but I am at this stage and I'm not ashamed to say it I am 51 years old. I'm okay with where I'm at. If I'm going to be a leader, it's going to be for my own business. It's not going to be for someone else's company.
Speaker 1:Okay and I'm glad you pointed that out, because sometimes pursuing other career paths and climbing the ladder when you're trying to balance and juggle a family, sometimes it's not the most practical option. But I love the fact that you are highlighting how you've managed to go from like a mainstream industry and carve out your own special way and we're still describing entrepreneurship at this point. You have your own business, you are your own boss, you make your own schedule. I'm not saying that lightly, because I'm sure that comes with a whole slew of other responsibilities that you wouldn't have if you were in like a more cookie cutter executive position. This is already laid out. You work for a corporation. This is how we do things. So I love the fact that you are giving us insight into both worlds. You know we can have the motherhood with working a nine to five, or you can be a present mom and wife doing the entrepreneurial route, and in your case you are doing both and you're making it work through your collaboration and your teamwork with your husband. So I love that you were able to give us ideas and insight into all of those paths, because I still see a lot of my friends right now. I think when we first started out, we were young, we were eager, fresh out of college, and we would take pretty much whatever was given to us, whatever opportunities were offered, in hopes of climbing that corporate ladder and getting a nice income where we can take care of a family and having the stability and predictability in your schedule to say, okay, I'm gonna get paid consistently, I'm going to go to work from this time to this time and then I can see my family. After five o'clock is just family time, I can clock out and I don't have to worry about anything else. But I think as time has progressed, as things have changed, now we're all at a crossroads, you know, do I want to continue this ladder? I think later on we started to learn and just understand a little bit more about phrases that are thrown around like work-life balance right or value added right. So do I want to climb the ladder anymore Is a question that I'm hearing a lot of my friends, whether they say that exactly or they use another phrase.
Speaker 1:They're all at a crossroads right now with trying to figure out if climbing the ladder is worth the sacrifice away from the family. Like our children are getting older, we want to give them opportunities and you can't do that without providing some type of financial stability for them. But now I'm starting to hear a lot of my friends like okay, at what cost? Right, we now have enough work experience to where we can apply for executive decisions. I mean executive positions. We can apply for those. But now the question is well, for how much more money, how much more time are you going to take and how much more responsibility am I going to take on?
Speaker 1:One of my girlfriends, one of her associates, just parted ways from their organization for an opportunity to take on, like a higher salary, a different job, similar skills at a higher salary. But we were talking about it and she was like well, you know, best of luck, because that position carries a lot of liability. So now I'm starting to hear you know, 10 years ago we just wanted jobs, good paying jobs, that was the goal. We didn't really want anything else.
Speaker 1:Now here it is, 10 years later, and all of us are not as eager to jump at the higher salaries because a lot of us have started families. So now we're taking other things into consideration and whereas before I would always ask people who were older than me like, hey, why didn't you go for that job. That would be great if you got paid that much. But now that I'm kind of in that seat and I'm seeing behind the veil, behind the curtain right is, oh okay.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe that higher salary wouldn't be worth the time, commitment or the liability and responsibility associated with those higher positions and the higher salaries. Maybe it's not worth the money, maybe it's not, or maybe I have something else that's of more value to me than those things. So it sounds like for you you've been able to figure out what's more important to you, and then it sounds like you've also still managed to find a way to have the best of both worlds, because it's not often that we hear moms here on the show that take their careers into considerations and are still able to find a way to satisfy their career aspirations and balance that family lifestyle. And it sounds like you've been able to do that. So that's awesome. Um, do you have anything to add to anything that I said?
Speaker 2:what I would add to that is and I I recently had this conversation with a young professional who was considering moving up and is currently in a position where she feels she has more work-life balance. So what I would say to a young career woman who has a young family is go ahead and take that chance. Take the position, because you can always leave that position if it is costing you too much time with your family because you don't want to be in a situation where you're thinking about the woulda, coulda, shoulda I should have done this or I should have done that. Take that chance and see if you can carve out Post COVID. A lot of executive positions are more flexible than they were because we can do a lot from home now. So I would definitely say take the risk and then, once you're in the position, determine if it's worth it and then, if you need to step back down to a different position with the same company or another company, there's nothing wrong with doing that. Just give it a try so that you can determine whether or not it's for you or not. I don't want anyone to feel any regrets because I did.
Speaker 2:After I had Ethan, before he had a diagnosis, I did step down from a leadership position and went into a training position because the job was so stressful and I would be on call for four counties with a newborn and making high risk decisions while exhausted. I supervised child welfare investigations for a number of years too, and that's the position when I had him. So I made a decision to step down to a position that paid less for about a year, but it wasn't long before that company tapped me into a leadership position because of my experience and even being in that position, because I ran a high risk juvenile youth offender program for girls. There was no rest, no sleep, because I was responsible for 30 juvenile females and all the staff that was there.
Speaker 2:And then I was pregnant with my second son, with Emery, and I think I was on bedrest and my husband's like we're going to have to figure something else out because I don't think this is going to work. And he was right it wasn't going to work because of the stress and everything with it and then having two young children at home because they're only two years apart. So I didn't go back to work after I had Emery and I did take another position because I was in my counseling program then. So I took a position more aligned with that. But I really wasn't making any money. So I've gone up and down in my career as far as positions and making the money, based on what would work. But I had goals, I had aspirations and by the time I was 30, I had already hit those career aspirations with the positions and the money so, and I had my first child at 35, my second one at 37. So at that time I was ready to back off and try something different.
Speaker 1:OK, and I like that. You were flexible enough to try something different, did you? I have two questions. So the first one you said your husband said that he doesn't think this is going to work. How did you feel Hearing that? How, how did that feel hearing that from him? Because I've heard that before and I did have a mom recently tell me her husband told her the same thing. She's a mom of twins and he was kind of like honey, it is not working out. And she said she had a lot of resentment towards him. Even though he was right, she was like for a while just having that come from him. She resented him for a while. So how did you handle being told you know, hey, this may not be the best, this may not work out.
Speaker 2:So no resentment because let me give some context to that conversation. I was pregnant, probably about four, five, maybe six months pregnant, and I had a feeling that things were happening on the overnight shift at the residential program. So I brought a radio home, took a radio in my car home and I got up and me and my husband had discussed it and the program was like 30 miles from my house in the county south of us and I told him. I said I got to go back because something's not right, because it was a lot of responsibility. Okay, so I roll up at my gate, turn my radio on, press the button for my master control to let me in and over the radio. It's like Miss Francine's coming through the gate. Miss Francine's coming through the gate to alert the staff. Wow, and I got back on the radio. I'm sorry, but why are you alerting staff that I'm coming in the gate?
Speaker 2:So it was after I did that that night and it was probably like 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning. So female driving on the highway 30 miles away from home, pregnant. So and then feeling that I was, so I was responsible which I was that I needed to do it. So there was no resentment. But anytime that you are in a situation like that and you don't feel that you can trust your staff enough to do the right thing, something has to give, something to give.
Speaker 2:And I didn't need to go back after that. I was placed on bed rest because it was a high stress position and just the context. Given that context and um, that was, I was pregnant with my youngest son, but I had been pregnant before Ethan and lost the baby at five months. So I think that that conversation came from a place of this is kind of risky for you and for us. So there was no resentment. I knew where it was coming from and he was right, he was definitely resentment. I knew where it was coming from and he was right, he was definitely right.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, and it's good that you all have that dialogue and you created that space with each other to have those conversations, because that was the first time I had ever heard that from someone. You know, to me it made sense. She was a mom trying to juggle twins, and you know it's hard enough juggling one newborn and you have two and you're still trying to do everything that you were doing prior to having children. So it took me by surprise and just maybe, uh, one day I'll have her on the show to explain it a little bit more. But she did say, like you know, he was telling me the right thing, he was right. She just wasn't ready to hear it and she wasn't ready to step down.
Speaker 1:And I do hear that, um, from a lot of women as well who are still, you know, on the fence with the corporate jobs. You know there's a sense of failure for some women if they have to walk away or change those career aspirations, modify those dreams and, you know, find another way to do what they were trying to do. So I love that. Everything that you're describing your, your plans changed and everything that you're saying is just a positive. You're not it doesn't sound like you lost out on anything. It doesn't sound like you walked away and were like, oh, I'm gonna miss out on this or I'm ashamed because I didn't continue to climb that ladder. It sounds like it's okay to change and pivot and I feel like we don't hear that enough. I don't know if it comes from like our upbringing and just having very traditional parents who want you to go to school, get your degree, get a job and work that job and work your way up and don't quit if it gets too hard and stick it out because they stuck out their jobs for 30 years. I find myself having that conversation slightly with my mom. I try not to entertain that conversation Because in her mind I know she's coming from a place of love and it's the stability and you want this and you want that, like don't leave that job. And me I'm kind of like I don't like this, I don't like that, I feel stressed out, I'm ready to go find something else.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting to finally hear someone say that it's okay to pivot, it's okay to change your plans, it's okay to try something and it's okay to admit that you know what that didn't really work out. Let me take a step back, let me regroup and let me figure something else out. So I think more people need to hear that and that sounds very realistic. There's no shame in any of that. I think that conversation needs to happen a lot more than the narrative that you need to stick it out, climb the ladder and basically that seems to be the norm. You commit to these jobs. You go to work at one o'clock in the morning if that's what's required, because you have an obligation and a job to do. So it's nice to hear someone say you know what that wasn't working for me anymore. It's time to change the plan. So that is amazing and we have, like, gone through. Is there anything else, career-wise that you want to share with us? Because I have another question just leading into it.
Speaker 2:The only thing I would say in reference to not sticking with a job and moving on and I know that's what the younger generation does is you have to be smart with your money. You have to invest your money so that you can have retirement. And I'll be very honest I am back at the district, was only planning on being back a year after COVID, and I had so many years into the state retirement system that it's crazy to let that go go. Okay, and so I'm trying to get the rest of my years in which that's holding me and the healthcare is holding me and my husband hostage, because if you get a plan outside of a corporation, they normally don't cover services for autism.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 2:So what I would say to a young woman is if you're going to career, hop. Make sure you're taking a chunk of your earnings and you are investing it for your future, for retirement, because we are all going to get old and may not be able to work at some point. So if you are, if you are going to job, hop, max out those 401ks. Get you a Roth IRA, but do something and be good with your money so that you are going to be okay later on.
Speaker 1:Okay, look, I feel like you're talking to me. Let me jot that down because I did. I left teaching where I really didn't think about retirement as a new teacher. Here in Palm Beach we have something called teacher fest and really you just show up and everything you need, you just go down the line, people have it's like a huge festival party for teachers, right? And basically, as a new teacher, they tell you all right, you're going to go to this auditorium, you, you have your little classes that you go to, and in between the classes you know they have booths and tents set up. Oh, you need to stop by here to get your union protection and your union membership set up. Oh, you need to stop by here to get your union protection and your union membership set up. Oh, you need to stop here to set up your benefits. Oh, stop here if you want to. And these were supplemental things, because our benefits, retirement, all of that stuff you know in the florida retirement system, you kind of already have that selected for you, right?
Speaker 2:So all of these other things.
Speaker 1:Now, this is extra.
Speaker 1:So you have people there just telling you you know you want to start a 403b, you're really young. This is going to be that extra cushion after you retire. You want to open up, maybe another account because you have children and you want to be able to save money for them one day. Like I didn't have to do any research, I didn't have to go out and search for anything. Anything that I needed was like right at my fingertips. So that's the one thing I probably didn't take into consideration when I made the switch, when I made the career change.
Speaker 1:Now, as a behavior analyst out in the field, working for myself, these are questions that I have and I have to figure it out on my own. Granted, I've been in the field now for about coming up on about two years in the field now for about coming up on about two years, and I did tell myself, you know, within that two year timeframe, by the end of those two years, I need to figure something out and I need to know what that's going to look like, because you're right, we're not going to be young forever, we're. We're eventually going to get old and nowadays you see a lot of people old and nowadays you see a lot of people like in their 70s, working, or you hear about a lot of people coming out of retirement, going back to work and they're in their mid to late 70s, they're pushing 80, and it's like, oh my goodness, who wants to work? You know, nobody wants to work at that age, but here we are. So it's important. It's definitely important, like you said, and I think more conversations like that need to happen, because that was something you know as a young person. You're just looking at you know teachers don't make a lot of money. This makes makes more money. Okay, I'm out, all right, what about all the other benefits that you get as a teacher that you don't get anywhere else? So now I'm having to really just sit down, figure my life out, figure out my finances and make a new set of goals. Now, this is gonna be a totally different set of goals that I need to make for myself outside of goals. Now, this is going to be a totally different set of goals that I need to make for myself outside of those career aspirations. And I do feel blessed to be able to be in a position to even think about those things, because some people don't even have that opportunity.
Speaker 1:Some people are, you know, just working multiple jobs and just trying to make ends meet, and there is no conversation about retirement, there is no dialogue about savings, because there's nothing to save right now. You know, the cost of living is through the roof. Everything is super expensive. So you have people working multiple jobs just to get through the day-to-day life.
Speaker 1:So I'm glad you pointed that out because that is something I see a lot of people my age pursuing entrepreneurship and sometimes I just wonder, like, okay, you started your business as an entrepreneur, but what does that retirement look like? Like what are you doing on that end? So it'll be interesting to see, especially with my generation in a few years, like you know, these business ventures that seem to be popping up. You know, what does that look like? Or is it, is it better to stick with the corporation and maybe do your business on the side, just so you have that cushion of retirement and things like that later. So it'll be interesting. I'm glad you brought that up because that is something more people need to consider. So, with everything that we've just learned about you, the insight that you've given us, now I'm going to get a little personal. Don't get afraid, it's not too personal.
Speaker 2:But how would you describe yourself as a mom? As a mom, wow, I would say that I'm very engaged, very active, I'm all up in the 13-year-old's business. But I would also describe myself as and I had this conversation with someone yesterday I had two goals as a parent not to traumatize my child and not to be the victim of trauma. And my other goal was to help them be as successful as they can be, and I think I'm definitely on track to doing those things. I feed their interests, their passions. We provide them with opportunities as parents that we did not have.
Speaker 2:So if my son described me and his dad, he says we're kind of helicopter-ish. Of course we're older than his friend's parents because, again, I had them at 35 and 37. So but I'm flexible too. I will listen as a clinician, as a therapist, if my son tells me how he's feeling or something I've done or said that has made him feel a little crappy. We had this conversation, I think, friday. It gives me an opportunity to reflect and to have that conversation and I can admit when I've done things wrong or how maybe I need to do things a little differently to parent, to his needs. So I would say, as a mom, I'm flexible.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I'm engaged and active and aware.
Speaker 1:Okay Now are you those things? Do you think you're that way as a mom because of your personality, or do you think your mental health background has kind of shaped your behaviors as a mom?
Speaker 2:I think honestly, I think my whole career shaped who I am as a mom. I started off my career as a juvenile probation officer, okay, and then I worked in child welfare as a supervisor, and then I went into mental health. So I think I know I'm firm enough to make sure that I, you know, my kid follows the rules and doesn't make bad decisions. He has the tools to help him make good decisions. I'll say that because I can't control what he does, but I think I was shaped throughout my career with my experiences and my personality. Throughout my career, with my experiences and my personality. My personality as a mom is like what does my kid need? I'm jumping on it right now. I'm going to take care of it.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So, but I think, knowing the world the way it is, I'm very protective and very I can be reactive. But I like to try to again plan ahead and prepare for different situations and different things that I may encounter as a parent.
Speaker 1:Okay, now, this is going to be interesting to hear, but I want, and I asked all my moms this question and I'll give you like a moment to really think of something but what was your most recent shitty mom experience?
Speaker 2:Oh, you say recent, wow. Well, my most recent shitty mom experience was within the last couple of days. Like this week, friday, um, my son sent a text to me and my his dad. And it's like I'm not feeling comfortable here. I need someone to pick me up so I would I text okay, I'm on my way. He didn't know he had an orthodontist appointment, so I was going to be picking him up in the next 30 minutes.
Speaker 2:But when I got there he was already in the front office waiting for me and I'm like what are you doing here? What's going on? You know, I'm looking around, nobody's, you know. And I asked the ladies behind the desk how did he get there? And they were like, oh, he just walked up, walked up. So I'm like what's going on? What happened? And he's like can we talk about it? In the car? I'm like we don't talk about this right now.
Speaker 2:And one of his friends had walked him up to the office and I said to the young man I got it, have a good day, you know, because there was an audience. Okay, okay, so, and then I did take him and then, when I found out what the issue was, I did typical black mom thing and I fussed at him a little bit and this shouldn't matter. And then, because he is the son of a therapist, he was like so you're really making me feel really crappy right now, and I was already feeling bad, and so I had to take a couple of steps back and respect his feelings in the moment and respect how he was feeling when he sent the SOS. But I was able to build them back up and make him understand, from my perspective, why I was aggravated with the situation.
Speaker 2:You know you can't always rescue him from uncomfortable situations, even though that's that first instinct to do. So, I think it was shitty on my part because I fussed. I went to fussing. So instead of letting him have his moment that he needed to feel bad and sad about, whatever the issue was, I did the typical Black mom thing and fussed. And you know they talked about Jesus. So what makes you special? They're not going to talk about you.
Speaker 1:Oh, not that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did. I said those words, they came out of my mouth.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, okay. So yeah, that was the most recent okay, gotcha, and uh what, there was something I just jotted down. Um, I love the fact that. So is that something that you guys kind of worked out together, or did he just do that on his own? You say he sent like an sos, so did you guys talk and you kind of prepared him hey, if something happens, message me. Or do you just have that open dialogue and relationship with each other?
Speaker 2:We have that open dialogue. Like I said earlier, he's a high performing student so he is prone to a little anxiety. If there's a test or something going on, he'll get a little somatic symptoms like that tummy's hurting and things like that. So but he was specifically like he didn't feel comfortable. So it's like, you know, me and my husband had a conversation and route I was like I don't know what's going on with this eighth grade drama now.
Speaker 1:But you know, um, I said, middle school is tough too. So that's amazing that you know he is still openly communicating with you around that age. I feel like, as a middle school teacher, the transitions and the changes and the challenges that I saw the kids go through it's the worst that I've ever seen around that age. Seventh grade, eighth grade that's probably the most challenging time, I think. High school it gets a little easier. The kids find their little niche, they find their group and they start to get comfortable with who. They are right.
Speaker 1:But middle school is all about the peers, is all about appealing and being cool to your peers, even if your peers are into things that you know your parents taught you that aren't the right things to do. You have some kids and some students who worry more about the opinions of their peers than anything else. So whatever comes, whatever their peers think, that takes precedence over anything else. So it's kind of impressive that you still have that open dialogue with him and it's great that he even feels comfortable enough to tell you when you're making him feel uncomfortable um, that may not be the most comfortable thing to hear, but it's great that he even has that skill set to begin with, because I know that's a challenge, especially for boys, especially for black boys, you know it. It comes that that's pretty heavy with expressing feelings like that. So that's awesome that you guys have that dialogue with each other. So it's I don't know. I'm just hearing all good things right now. So, in your opinion, what are your three biggest challenges as a mom?
Speaker 2:three biggest challenges, I would say being present, I would say not putting my needs or wants above them, because I am responsible for them. And the third one would be protecting them from the world, because I know when they're with me or with us they're safe. So that biggest challenge is what are they going to encounter when they're not with us and are they going to be prepared for it?
Speaker 1:and are they going to be prepared for it? Okay, so what kind of strategies are you using, or have you found any yet, to help you with like being? Let's start with being present.
Speaker 2:With being present. I have a hard if I'm home and I'm responsible for them. My phone is off. You can try to call me, text me. Unless I happen to have my phone in my hand, people are not going to reach me and that includes, like my mom, like she knows, when I'm home that phone is off. So she'll call Emery or call my husband, because that's how I can stay present with them and in the moment, if I disconnect from all the jobs and the clients and the students, I don't care about the phone, and when it's their time we will do things. I take time for Ethan's birthday. I didn't make him go to school that day. I took that day off and me and him spent that day together. Emory has a doctor's appointment tomorrow morning, so we'll probably go and have breakfast because his appointment's not until 915. So they get time with me together, but then they get time with me separately as well.
Speaker 1:Okay and I like that. I did have another mom who I think it just so happens that her kids are involved in sports and the sports are different, so they're in different seasons, so she can kind of prioritize the kids seasonally and spend, like you know, quality time with just one of them. She was another mom of multiples. So I love that idea Disconnect and do something and what about? So? This is a big one for me and I think it comes up in like every show in in one way or another. But what are you doing to combat like the challenge of protecting them from the world? Combat?
Speaker 2:like the challenge of protecting them from the world. I think what I'm doing is trying to learn how to relax because, again, with Emery and I concentrate more on Emery because Ethan's always going to be sheltered, because he's always going to need someone with him when he's out in the world, whether it's us or someone we hire. So that's why I'm concentrating on Emery. It's about making sure that he has those skills to say no, to express how he feels that he's uncomfortable and to know that he does. He can send an SOS and someone's going to be there okay and I'm taking notes.
Speaker 1:That's why I'm like looking down writing okay, and then so I put learn to relax and teach coping skills. It sounds like that's what you're doing. Coping skills to say no. Coping skills to say hey, I'm uncomfortable. I need to tag in an adult. I know recently my son.
Speaker 1:He's preparing to go to middle school next year and I just had a conversation with him last week just letting him know look, if you are ever around your friends and your dad and I, we aren't there. If you feel like something is going wrong that is making you feel uncomfortable, I don't care what it is, you will not be in trouble. Just call me, just call your dad. We will stop everything that we're doing and we will come and get you. You won't be in trouble. We just want you safe. If you think they're doing something that might get you in trouble, or you think they're doing something that might get you in trouble, or you think they're doing something that might get someone hurt and you don't want to make a big scene, or you don't want to seem like, oh, you're a baby, or you know you're a snitch, why are you telling we we will just come and get you? We'll be as discreet as possible and we just want you, we will get you out of there. So I don't think he fully understood. I think it was like Mom, what are you talking about? But I just want to make that clear to him. And I'm sure it's going to be a situation where we have that conversation with him more than one time. But I just want to start drilling it in because right now he doesn't, he doesn't really understand, but I'm sure there's going to come a time, with him going to middle school, there's going to be a situation where he does feel torn between, do you know, staying there with his peers and that discomfort, or in a situation that may not be the best, versus reaching out and asking for help. And I just want to drive home to him right now. You know, in ABA we're all about repetition, right, and we're all about practicing. So in my mind I'm like if I keep practicing now, before something happens, then when the time comes, hopefully he has that skill, hopefully he has enough self-awareness to recognize.
Speaker 1:You know what I don't really like this situation. My mom said I can call her or text her and she'll come and get me, no questions asked. So I'm hoping to build that with him now because, like you said, the challenge of protecting your kids from the world. You know, I can't think of how many things they can encounter that would be a challenge, or risky, or dangerous or, you know, unsafe, and I can't, logically, I can't prepare him for everything, but I'm, I'm hoping.
Speaker 1:The one thing that I've driven home to him is just call me. I don't care what it is, I don't care about you getting in trouble. If you call me to come and get you, you're not in trouble. Just call me, call your dad, we will come and get you and we'll figure it out together. I don't care what it is. So I want to drive that home now and hopefully he will remember to. You know, send that to. Hey, I'm not feeling so comfortable. Come and pick me up, or can you come and get me? That that is the ultimate goal. So how did you get to that point with your son?
Speaker 2:I think, like you said, that reputation okay and he uses it. He does utilize it. But I think they have to be comfortable and I think from a young age it's always been if you tell us the truth, you're not going to be in trouble. So if you've done something, just tell the truth. And we've been very consistent with that and he's so, he's honest, so, and when he's told us the truth, it's like, oh, but we walk away and we don't fuss or whatever, and we let it go because we want that, we want the truth.
Speaker 1:Okay, bigger picture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, right. So he knows that he can come to us and that we won't explode. We may want to explode, but we're pretty good at holding it in. Okay, and me and my husband are on the same page, because I looked at grades a while back and I was like he got an F in such and such on a test or something or quiz. It was a quiz and he just got off of straight A's. I said, but I'm not going to fuss, but I'm just calling you because I need to vent. Okay, so then when my husband picked him up, the first thing he told my husband was I didn't do well on a quiz, da-da-da-da and whatever. So my husband said, yeah, your mom looks, she already knows. But she said that there's some other work that's in there in Canvas that you should see, that you can do some practice work or something.
Speaker 1:So I didn't explode then.
Speaker 2:But you know you want to then but you know you want to. And even with the grades, we've never pressured him. But because he does well on his own, I still monitor and it's like I do ask. I don't check Skyward every day, I'm like so where we are, because I don't want any surprises. And that's been repeated time and time again. That's why, when dad picked him up from school, repeated time and time again. That's why, when dad picked him up from school because we don't want surprises he just told hey, I didn't do too well on this quiz and I got an F.
Speaker 1:And that's like the best feeling.
Speaker 2:It is, but you still want to be like how'd this happen, how this happened. But so I think for him that's what we did and he will come to us and talk to us, and sometimes he'll go talk to my husband or whatever. He may not, they'll have conversations that I know nothing about, which is fine or whatever, and it just it just really depends on where he is or what's going on. And I think it's about being present and making the time to sit and talk and have the open dialogue and to tell what your expectations are. And we've set the expectations and he set the expectations by, you know, doing well, so we know he can do well without pressuring him. He's done well, so it is an expectation now and then if he needs help or tutoring, he comes to us. That boy had me paying $3.50 a month for mathnasium last year for tutoring because he said he needed tutoring and maintained a B all year and gota five on whatever the state test was.
Speaker 2:He didn't need it because he said he needed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say I love this self-awareness, I absolutely.
Speaker 2:It has its challenges because he is self-aware. So he he is definitely a unicorn, but he's a unicorn that can give us challenges sometimes because he is self-aware, right, but usually what comes with that is a child.
Speaker 1:That's outspoken and you know we were raised like you. Don't talk back to adults, you don't? You know children should be seen and not heard. And so how are you navigating that space? Because I think a lot of parents right now are struggling with trying to nurture self-aware kids who advocate for themselves and then also trying to navigate that space of excuse me, I'm the adult Fall back.
Speaker 2:So how do?
Speaker 1:you navigate that space.
Speaker 2:I think it's all about respect and he has to be respectful when he comes to us and talks to us. So the tone matters, so all of it matters the tone, his body language, so what we tried to teach him like okay, I need you to relax that voice, take that little bass out and talk to me how you would talk to a teacher, right, because they always behave better when they're somewhere else. I will say he did try it one time and I think he learned his lesson. He was like I'm going to tell you guys how I feel and I don't care if I'm getting in trouble, and I was like I'm going to sit back and watch this happen, because it was something that happened to him.
Speaker 2:So I was like I sat back and I let him dig his hole, and then I saved his life. I let him dig it and then it was like you know, because he really made my husband angry and I was like, okay, I think it's time for you to disengage now. I'm like I'm trying to save your life. You just made a big mistake.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:After he reflected on it, he went back and he apologized to his dad or whatever. Okay and it's, but it is a challenge because he does. He has some great self-advocating skills, but he has to learn how to read the parents and know when to back off gotcha.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always say my son, his name means he who fights for his beliefs, and I'm like, uh, buddy, slow down, like you're fighting a little bit too much, you don't need to fight me on this. Like everything is a fight. Dinner what he's gonna eat, what he's not gonna eat, and I tried the old school. Okay, I guess you're not gonna eat then. And he was. He called my bluff like all right, going to bed and you know what.
Speaker 2:That's okay, because if he was really hungry he would eat, and the same thing has happened here. Because then it's like, oh, you're not going. Well, the kitchen is closed. No snacks, no snacks. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's challenging, but he has that freedom to let us know how he feels. That me and my husband never had and I'm okay with that. He's not afraid of us and my parent ruled. She was a single parent and I think she ruled with that fear that something was going to happen if you didn't walk the walk the right way. My kids are not afraid. He knows that. We can sit down and have dialogue with me and his dad. So but it is a balance with being respectful and he's been talked to about the tone and being respectful and the responses and you know not trying to cut us off because he doesn't want to hear what we say, so, but he's a kid that yelling doesn't work for him and it's you know. So it's like, okay, you, you've expressed to me verbally you don't want me to yell, so please don't be surprised when I just come remove items from your room.
Speaker 1:When the internet just stops working all of a sudden.
Speaker 2:So yes, because you know I've turned that internet off before, so it's things like that. So, yes, I parent differently than my parent parented me, but I know I'm doing it better.
Speaker 1:Okay, I like that. I had a question somewhere in there. I'll come back to it. I think it was with him. Him oh, I'll come back to it in a minute but I with him just self advocating. Oh, that's what I was gonna say. So you don't want a little bit of fear, like just I don't know if this is me holding on to like the way that I was raised, but you don't want your kid to fear you a little bit. Like what's your stance on that, mom therapist? What's your stance on the kids having a level of fear of their parents?
Speaker 2:Typically, when kids are afraid they're not going to be honest, okay, they're going to be worried about what those consequences are. And this is strictly me, coming from a therapeutic standpoint as a child therapist. If they're afraid, they will do whatever they feel they need to do, so that they don't have to see what that consequence is going to be, whether it's lie or what have you. So, no, I don't want him to be afraid, okay, but he does know that we are consistent and there will be consequences to his actions. So that's not a fear based thing. That's just that if this is how it's going to be, that every reaction is going to, every action is going to get a reaction, and it may not be in your best interest, so there's going to be a consequence if he does something that he's not supposed to do. So if he's afraid of the consequences, then he's probably not going to do whatever the behavior is, you know. But then again he may be like, oh, I don't care, because sometimes you get that you take the video game. Then it's like whatever.
Speaker 2:And then you phone and then it's like so when can I get my phone back? So when do what I asked you to do? So you know but no, I don't want them to be afraid.
Speaker 1:OK, and I ask that because I do hear that from a lot of parents, even like a lot amongst my friends. You know they want to establish themselves as an authoritative figure and I do still hear people say like, well, I'm not your friend, I'm your parent. So it sounds like when they say I'm not your friend, I'm your parent, they are trying to instill some level of fear within that child because no, we are not on the same level and I think it gets um, I don't know, they think about it as being equal to a level of respect.
Speaker 2:Right, fear equals respect is sorry for interrupting. I think that is respect, because he knows he'll tell you what. You're not one of my little friends, that's right. I'm not one of your little friends. So it's about respect and not fear. You can respect someone and not be afraid of them. Okay, when you've worked for other people, when you've worked for and had supervisors or bosses, you may respect them or respect the position, but you weren't necessarily afraid of them right, I like that, so I don't need him to be afraid, because people who are scared make bad decisions for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then you miss that connection where you can have that open dialogue, because you're afraid, and if you're afraid of someone they're not approachable, gotcha.
Speaker 1:I love that. I just recently attended a conference and one of the two of the ladies there actually focus on like behavior change and acceptance and commitment therapy, but they have a focus on what they call Black liberation and I've never heard of this before. Lack liberation and I've never heard of this before. In our field, in the field of ABA, behavior modification I've never heard of it before. And basically she was explaining that she solely focuses on parent training and don't quote me, but I know parent training is a large component of what she does. So maybe she works directly with children, maybe not, but I know the parent training is a huge component and within that parent training, the focus is Black liberation.
Speaker 1:The parenting styles that a lot of black parents have stem from just generations and decades of oppression and it stems from slavery. She was explaining to us you know, think about Jim Crow, think about slavery and the way you had to conduct yourself and the behaviors that you had to engage in just to stay alive and that was passed on from generation to generation to generation. And she started to explain and a lot of us today, as parents, we take on those same strategies and we use that to parent our children today, and when she said that, I was like, oh wow, like I never thought of it that way. So you know, little sayings like ruling with an iron fist children should be seen and not heard. She was like that comes from a stance of slavery. You know you had to do those things in order to stay alive. Slavery you know you had to do those things in order to stay alive. But what do you do now when we're not there anymore? So that was.
Speaker 1:It was eye-opening, because I never bridged the gap between the two, I never thought about the two, and then it really started making me reflect on my parenting style. And, okay, what do I want to change? Because I don't want to use trauma-based parenting. Right, I don't want to use any of those techniques. So it's it's awesome to hear that that's something that you're doing, because now you're giving me and the listeners a little more insight as to how that looks with what is your son like gen x, gen z or something like that? Like what does that?
Speaker 1:look like what yeah these?
Speaker 2:newer generations you know, that's that fear base, because the slave, the in the, in the enslaved people were, they were in fear all the time.
Speaker 2:So and I hadn't made that connection with my parenting style, but it's just, I don't, like I said, I don't want him to be afraid, I want him to be able to talk to me and as a clinician who's worked with kids for a long time, I know that's been a big thing where you know I would have clients that could talk to me and tell me things but they couldn't tell their parents.
Speaker 2:And, from having experienced that, I want him to be able to talk to me and my husband's the same way, like he will sit and he will listen and he will talk to him about his perspective on it. So, and that's not something we discussed and said, this is how we're going to on it. So, and that's not something we discussed and said this is how we're going to do it. It just we just gel well together, I think, with our different styles, because I'm mom, of course, you know at times he's been like, you know, stop babying him or whatever, and it's like you stop being so rough. But I think it's about, again, balance, it's about balance. It's about balance.
Speaker 1:Okay, and this is my last question, this is like my favorite question and I try to squeeze this. I never get this far. So sometimes I ask this question, sometimes I don't, but I'm just very interested because of your experience, your background, the systems that you have in place. What advice do you wish you had been given sooner about motherhood?
Speaker 2:You know, I'm not even going to call it advice.
Speaker 2:What I wish I would have known about motherhood was just how drastically it changes your lifestyle, where you're used to moving and just moving and doing things.
Speaker 2:You can't navigate like that anymore when you have a family, that you do have to put others before yourself and then you have to learn how to navigate to get your interests met or get your needs met in other ways. So I think if that were to come with advice, I think it would be. You need to know that your life is going to change and that you are going to love the way you've never loved before and you're going to be putting your needs to the side. Whether it's permanently or temporarily, you are going to definitely be looking out for someone else's interest more so than your own at times, for someone else's interest more so than your own at times. So that's the information I would have wanted. So I'm just glad that I did have my kids older, because all the things I wanted to experience I've experienced them. So I don't feel like I missed out on anything career-wise, socially or anything, because I was ready to become a parent in that moment. And those sacrifices that have been made, they were made.
Speaker 1:Okay, I love that. So that brings us to the end of the show. I feel like we can have a whole nother episode on just self-care, because you mentioned that a few times. Like find another way to prioritize yourself as a mom, you know. Put the needs of your child before yours, put the needs of your family, you know. So we're gonna cut it today here, but I would definitely love to have you back on the show just to go over different ways to balance that self-care with motherhood, because I think a lot of us try and sometimes it's like, all right, that's not a priority right now, it's on the back burner.
Speaker 1:But you have given so many gems today. Um, I have like a page full of notes. So I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the show, just giving us some insight and giving us a glimpse into your experience. I really appreciate it and I just know our listeners are really going to benefit from this episode, whether they're inspired to pursue a career or pivot in their career or maybe change and modify some of the ways that they communicate with their children. There are so many different gems that you have dropped today. So just thank you again for joining us. Thank you for coming on the show and I hope to have you back soon.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:All right, have a good one.
Speaker 2:You too.
Speaker 1:Bye, bye. Hey everyone, it's your favorite BCBAD here, dr DeLoren, and I'm here to ask you to help us continue making great content for listeners everywhere by visiting wwwforshittymomscom, where you can make a monthly contribution. Also, visit us on Instagram, youtube, facebook and TikTok at Foreshitty Moms and that's shitty. With an X, not an I you, you.