What if the key to a fair and just legal system lies hidden within vast amounts of unexamined data? Join us on the Disruptor Podcast as we sit down with the Honorable Raymond C. Hedden to explore his transformative efforts in the judicial realm. Ray passionately discusses his groundbreaking work on a statewide criminal sentencing database in Ohio, aimed at eradicating implicit biases and ensuring equal treatment for all. This initiative, supported by Ohio Supreme Court justices, promises to bring long-overdue transparency and accountability to the sentencing process.
Throughout our conversation, Ray reflects on the historical context of the past 25 years in the U.S. legal system and the critical need for a comprehensive database to track sentencing disparities. Despite numerous task forces advocating for change, institutional biases have continuously stalled progress. Ray's relentless pursuit of justice and his commitment to integrating data and analytics into judicial practices reveal a path forward for achieving true fairness. This episode is essential listening for anyone passionate about legal reform and the ongoing fight for equal justice.
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What if the key to a fair and just legal system lies hidden within vast amounts of unexamined data? Join us on the Disruptor Podcast as we sit down with the Honorable Raymond C. Hedden to explore his transformative efforts in the judicial realm. Ray passionately discusses his groundbreaking work on a statewide criminal sentencing database in Ohio, aimed at eradicating implicit biases and ensuring equal treatment for all. This initiative, supported by Ohio Supreme Court justices, promises to bring long-overdue transparency and accountability to the sentencing process.
Throughout our conversation, Ray reflects on the historical context of the past 25 years in the U.S. legal system and the critical need for a comprehensive database to track sentencing disparities. Despite numerous task forces advocating for change, institutional biases have continuously stalled progress. Ray's relentless pursuit of justice and his commitment to integrating data and analytics into judicial practices reveal a path forward for achieving true fairness. This episode is essential listening for anyone passionate about legal reform and the ongoing fight for equal justice.
***
Engage, Share, and Connect!
Spread the Word: Valuable insights are best when shared. Share this episode with peers who may benefit from it if you find it insightful.
Your Feedback Matters: How did this episode resonate with you? Share your thoughts, insights, or questions. Your engagement enriches our community.
Collaborate with The Disruptor and connect with John Kundtz.
Quick Connect Call:Dive deeper into the discussion. Book a 15-minute chat with John Kundtz -> Schedule here. Stay Updated: Don't miss out on further insights. Subscribe to our YouTube Channel and our Blog
Hi, this is John Kuntz of the Disruptor Podcast. I had the pleasure, in August of 2021, to record a podcast with the Honorable Raymond C Hedden. I've taken the time to remix that podcast and republish it in a three-part series. Part two will take a deeper dive into the database initiatives that Ray was working on as part of his activities. His attempt to bring data, analytics and insights, fairness and equality into the sentencing process is something that he had a passion for, and I hope you learn about what he was doing, and I hope you take the causes that Ray was trying to work on as a judge and continue to move them forward as part of his legacy. Again, thanks for listening.
Speaker 3:
Hope you enjoy the bottom, and every now and then you need a disruptor to come in and just do this to really get the beauty that's behind the curtain. A disruptor is able to come in and shake things up. It really allows all of those beautiful glittery snowflakes to reenter the atmosphere and then the world is in this beautiful, blissful renaissance for a short period of time until it settles again and another disruptor is required to come in and shake things up. So, as far as it comes to shaking things up in the judicial side of things the legal entities that we've been talking about leading up to this what exactly is going on in this 21st century We've talked about? We're a big show that likes to talk about data, so I'm super excited for this part of the conversation. But why don't we start to hit on the database and you can explain what that is and kind of explain how it came about?
Speaker 2:
Absolutely, thank you. What's important is to put 2020 into a historical context of almost 25 years in the United States, but in particular where I'm sitting on the court deals in the state of Ohio, where judges have been parts of blue ribbon task forces. They've been part of many efforts that are looking at ways to increase fairness in the judicial system, ways to increase people justice, ways to increase confidence in the judicial system, and a whole lot of that comes down to that old adage that how you treat your least is really reflective of what's best, best of what your whole society is, and that's what the judicial system is about. And yet, if you look back on what I've been able to do and this is the disruptive element for 25 years, there have been all of these blue ribbon task force looking at whether or not there is a need for a criminal sentencing database. You would think in the 21st century that there isn't already, that that there's like database that has all of the sentencing data that would allow for judges and the public to be able to look at issues like how long a sentence is or whatever the effects of equal justice are. The whole point is that we don't have information about individual felony, about how felonies are sentenced across individuals. We don't know if there's racial bias or implicit bias. We don't know about how programs work, like diversion programs, community control, which is when you're on the little ankle bracelet, and other things like that. So these kind of things are fundamental to fairness because, like one person gets one sentence and another person gets an entirely different sentence for the same crime, that's just simply not fair. That's not the United States. So I got tired of that.
Speaker 2:
And in the two years that I've been on the bench, not only have I had a 100% record as a judge, but I took on this issue head on by sentence, along with a couple of Supreme Court justices now the chief justice of the Supreme Court, ohio Supreme Court as well. And what we're going to do is we're going to enact a criminal sentencing statewide database so that many of these equal justice issues, fairness issues, will be a part of it. And right in the car that all of these task force we had, all of these people saying that there are blue ribbon panels across the country over 25 years. There's a critical need for data. That I all said the reason why I think it hasn't.
Speaker 2:
And this is where, again coming back to where John and I are, I'm in a position because I went to a place like the US to when you have. It's that what institutional racism or bias is? It's that place where, like literally like 45 years of Blue Ribbon Tap this is around the United States y'all. There must be a reason, and the only reason I can come up with is institutional. It doesn't happen because, like judges or the public or everyone else, just watch things continue on, and that's what institutional bias I think is.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I was flabbergasted doing research for this upcoming session, where this has been going on since 1999, and that people have looked at this issue and, as you said, building a database is something that is pretty common and pretty easy these days, in fact, that it's been a number of task forces, a number of commissions for 25 years and it just sits there and status quo wins out right, and I think when the status quo wins out, that then, in my mind, reinforces whether it be institutional racism or implicit bias or whatever. But one of the things I always talk about with my colleagues is you can't measure what you can't see and you can't fix what you can't measure, and so I think you're really on to something as far as trying to at least just get the data in a place so you can see it, then you can measure it. Once you measure it, so you can see it, then you can measure it. Once you measure it, then you can manage it and you can fix it.
Speaker 1:
What you're trying to do and that's what, again, why we wanted to have you on the show is you clearly are in, and it's something that should have been done a decade or so ago. You were finally able to put, and I think, I think, jan, you're right, I think this whole, this idea of all these commissions, all these task force. They were the little flake in the slow globe and they settled down to the bottom of the globe and now Ray's coming in and he's shaking that globe up. The timing is, I think, really good, but I was very, like I said, back to my main point. I was surprised and disappointed, to be honest, that this has been going on for so long that good data drives information.
Speaker 2:
I'm doing my best as a judge to do the day-to-day things, but then always there needs to be somebody who is also not just doing the day-to-day things but looking to see where there are places where there can be significant improvements, and I'm proud of the effort that I have led in Ohio to bring information to the forefront, because it flows up and down through the entire justice system, as you just said, john, and I think that one of the things that is so important the reason why I want to use words that might be inflammatory is because there needs to be some inflammation right now, because it always seems to disappear. Can I pop in on that?
Speaker 3:
I want to try to hit on that word because, coming from somebody that is an ICU nurse first and foremost and then kind of like a pseudo, I say I have my street degree in communication, right, my actual degree was in nursing. So when you say the word inflammation, a lot of people associate inflammation with bad. Right, Like you want to take anti-inflammatories, you want to take things. But the ironic thing is that inflammation is one of the first steps in the cascade of responses that your body has for protection. It's one of the first steps that your body undergoes, Like when you get stung by a bee. The entire reason why you start to get inflamed is because your body releases histamine, which is meant to try to protect body systems. Right, and? But as soon as you said that it was the first thing, you said that we need it's. Inflammation is required right now, Like we need to use a little bit of inflammatory stuff. A because inflammation is uncomfortable. B, because the intention behind the inflammation is that of protection. God bless you.
Speaker 2:
And protecting the justice system is fundamental, especially in this year 2020, because there's so many people who are losing confidence in our institutions. The judicial system is not one where we have an army behind us or anything like that. Of course, people do anything. No people submit because they believe in our system and that justice is fair, and there's a need for that to be always reinforced. And so when we have opportunities like the criminal sentencing database, to make people aware that they can be part of something that transforms not just their lives but, like, like I said, it's about when we can do something to affect the system itself, that makes the entire system for all of us that much better. So that's what I'm, that's what I'm most concerned about, most interested in and most pleased with being on this program Because, like you said, information using words like why did it not happen for 25 years is that?
Speaker 2:
Well, I'm going to call it Like I said. I went to prep school, I've been in an Ivy League. I hopefully want to be in a position to challenge both black, white and any kind of race person. Call stuff what it is. In some ways, it may not be accurate, but at least it will begin the process of making the change, the disruption that's necessary to stop it now and make 2020 the time when, across the United States, but particularly in Ohio, we begin a movement to get data for our felony sentences so that there can be measurement of inequality or measurement of equality. We just don't even know.
Speaker 1:
That's the end of part two. I hope you enjoyed our discussion about for a simple database that could give the tools to our judicial system to make fair and equitable sentencing decisions. Join us for part three. Jan and I will dive deeper with Ray around his concept he coined called mass incarceration, where we will get to know and better understand the initiatives he was doing and where he was working and how he felt it would improve the overall judicial system in the state of Ohio and save the taxpayers money. Again, thanks for listening to this special edition of the Disruptor Podcast. We hope to see you at the next one. Thanks a lot. Take care Bye.