Clay is easily bent, molded, and shaped by a potter before being refined in fire where it's hardened. Molded out of clay ourselves, God formed man of the dust of the ground. We are pottery, and God is the divine potter. Through his mercy and grace, he is able to reshape, remold, Rebuild and redeem us
Hi everybody and welcome to the show Today we have with us our guest mark and mark is going to share with us his story of overcoming Sexual and physical abuse and his journey to forgive those who hurt him. So i'm so excited to hear his story and um Just welcome to the show mark. We're so happy to have you.
Yes. Welcome mark
Well, thank you so much for having me on today. It's an honor to be able to share my testimony and share my story with others that they could find hope, like I found hope in my faith in Jesus Christ. So thank you again for allowing me to share my story today and be able to tell you a little bit what I went through.
through. And unfortunately I went through a trial. I went through a tragedy. I went through a season as many people experience way too much. You know, I went through abuse. It was a different time. I'm talking to you now. I'm on the other side of 50 years old, but it, my abuse started in 1977. I was seven years old.
Culture was different. Society was different. Things like that. People didn't talk about, it didn't happen in homes like ours. It happened to always somewhere else. But at seven years old, my mom would marry a man 20 years or younger. And he would come into our home and he would abuse me in every way, shape and form.
But let me go back before that. Uh, I was born from an affair. My mom was hurting in her life and she met a guy who promised her the world and she gave him everything. And, and I was a product of that relationship. So I never knew my birth dad until I got older in life. I didn't know. I didn't know who he was, what he did.
So I was longing for. Somebody, I'm longing for something to happen in my life. Somebody to come in and kind of rescue, if you would, as a child. I think my mom and she would marry this man. And I was excited. There was going to be somebody in our home. Somebody to toss a football with, throw a baseball with.
But again, it wasn't like that. He came into our home. And I'll never forget that, that first night that the crackling of the threshold where he came and stole my innocence. I'll never forget the weight of his body as he stole my, my dignity. And I'll never forget the smell of his breath as his lies that would become common to me.
That would become like the oxygen that filled the air. And from seven to 14, he would find ways to abuse me in every way, shape, and form. Often daily, sometimes two, three times a day. He was so sadistic that he would even sell me to others. He would laugh when they'd cut me. He would laugh when they bleed.
They, they burnt me. And this was my reality. This is what I lived in from the ages of seven. Wow. Did you have any idea what was going on at the time? You know, I don't think so. Not originally. Eventually she did. Eventually my mom did because I told her. And again, in that part of our lives, in that time, the awareness of child abuse was always somewhere else.
So my mom came from a generation that. If you didn't talk about it, it didn't happen. You never let your dirty laundry outside the door. You could always put on the plastic smile. So my mom, because of her own hurts and pains, because of her own abuses and, and her own situations, that she was just naive.
She was... She didn't realize what was taking place. And again, I'm not excusing my mom and she'll have to answer for what her decisions were in life, but it wasn't like it is today where there's awareness and advocacy and support and there's just things back then. And this man would come in and he would abuse me in every way, shape or form until I was 14 years old when I was able to fight back and I say fight back.
It was literally that I got. bigger stature. I was heading into junior high school and I, it wasn't a Rocky Balboa moment, but I just pushed my attacker off me and I ran to find somebody who would believe me. And I ran into a family member. I ran into a loved one and they would believe me and they would support me with, uh, with their love, their strength, their power and might.
But the biggest thing they did is they believed in me. And because of their belief. That my story wasn't made up or I wasn't fabricating or pretending that their, their power as an adult came beside me. And really that's when the physical abuse ended seven years of daily abuse, seven years of being cut, seven years of being burnt, seven years of being raped.
But of course the scars not only were in my body, but also the scars in my psyche and in my soul. I often tell people that I wasn't raised, I survived and learned, I learned, I learned how to duck. You know, I learned how to duck, not, not stand up and become a person and raise my voice and celebrate who I am.
I learned how to be quiet. I learned how to pacify my abuser. I knew what kind of day it was going to be just by the way he sighed in the morning, the way he took his first breath. I knew I was going to be abused and this was my reality and I was angry. I was confused, I was frustrated, I, I didn't know which way was up, I didn't know which way was down.
Literally, this was the atmosphere in the home I lived in. I was just a, a, a victim of his own sick perversion, and this was the reality that I lived in. But it wasn't the reality that God wanted me to have. Right. Wow. So you said so at age 14, um, you were able to fight back and so the abuse stopped, but the mental torment was all still there.
Obviously all those wounds and, um, damage that has happened to over those years. So what happened from that point on? Um, what point did you encounter God? Did you know him at this point? I did not. I did not know God. I mean, we had a religious home. Uh, you know, be good. Jesus died for us, but there was no faith.
It was just kind of religious home. And, and at 14, I, I kind of bounced around some family and they kind of loved on me and supported me and tried to pull me out of that miry clay if you want, want, but there was one week and I found myself back at my mom's house and I didn't want to be there. So I, I just kind of went where I could be.
I was about 15 years old and I, and I ran down. We were living in an apartment complex and I ran down and I wanted to be at the pool all day. You know, that's where I wanted to be. And of course, there was this lifeguard and, uh, and, and she was a lovely young lady and I was a normal young man, you know, and she decided to invite me to church and I would have went anywhere if she invited me that day.
And her and her boyfriend came and picked me up for church that night. Womp, womp, womp. Ew. No.
We're good friends today and, and, but you know, I went to church that night and it was like nothing I ever experienced. It was evangelical, it was charismatic. People raised their hand, they played drums. It was the 80s, so our youth pastor had a mullet. You know, it was, it was what it was, and I walked in there and, and the first time I didn't really understand what was going on.
Again, people wanted to hug me, I didn't really like touch, uh, you know, but, but you know what? They just were so kind to me. And I come to find out that, that you lived only a few doors down from me. So he would invite me all summer long back to the church, back to the church, back to, and I eventually went on a Friday night.
And out front of that church on a rainy night, a young man, he, he asked me if I ever knew Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I mean, he was cool because he had a car, you know, but, but he asked me and he led me in the sinner's prayer that night. And I praise God that I probably didn't even understand the depth or the importance of the commitment I was making.
I just wanted peace. And I said that prayer and God was faithful to that prayer. And that's where the journey begins. And I call that journey forgiving the nightmare. And again, there has been ups and downs, lefts and rights. There has been mountaintops and valleys because those early experiences that stalled so much from me, my innocence, my dignity, my value, my.
My importance, you know when I, the abuse of my life was the rudder of my life. I, it just, I, I, I, everywhere I went, it was because, or to avoid, or to gravitate, or to move around. I was always avoiding my past. I was always avoiding the trouble, because I felt so least. I felt like the least of them. You know, I felt like something on somebody's shoe.
I, I never felt I had any value or importance. I was always waiting for the other foot to drop. I was always waiting for the bad thing to happen. I was always waiting for the, for the, the hit to come back. I was always waiting for the insult. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Cause I mean, it sounds like you weren't not only a victim of, you know, sexual abuse from your stepfather, but also a victim of human trafficking.
Like if you were sold, like I couldn't even imagine. And then learning to forgive from that. Yeah, so, um, take, talk to us about that. So after you became, um, a believer and you're walking with God, at what point did you feel like God was nudging you towards that, um, inner healing and decision to forgive those who hurt you?
Sure, you know, you're right. I became a Christian at about 15 years old, had a very active youth group. We were involved, you know, pizza parties, pool parties, camps, youth conventions, the whole thing. I just got submerged into the church life because the church really became a sanctuary for me. I didn't want to be at home.
So I think I even went to mops meetings, you know, I went to everything, you know, I just, the doors were open and I was there and, and I, and I was growing in my faith and I was growing in God's word. And to be honest with you, I'm a dyslexic. That's one of the casualties of me growing up. I have many of them, but that was one of them.
So reading God's word was always a chore for me. It was never easy as that wasn't something I did in a, in a simple way. It was always a challenge, but I gave myself to that challenge and I, I wrestle with it and, and I knew God was calling me. I knew God's word was, was real. I knew God's love was. True.
Even though I didn't know how to always express it, or share it, I knew it was always there. And I remember one day, you know, I was reading about, you know, forgiveness, the Lord's Prayer. Forgive those who trespass against you, and of course, we all know the words, if you can't forgive them, then how can the Lord forgive you?
And I shut the Bible, and I shut it almost in frustration, and I said, Lord, you know, I'm not talking about somebody who just cut me off in traffic, or somebody who stepped in the line. Look, these are life altering events. These are the tragedies that many people go. Mine was abuse, but today probably a lot of people are listening, thinking, How do we forgive those life altering tragedies?
Those things that, that spoils so much for me. So, you know, I'll be honest with you, for a long time, I, I ignored it. I didn't want to give my psyche, my heart to that. I kind of justified, listen, I also give a lot of things, but God, if you're a really good God, how can you ask me to forgive that? And as I, as I started to grow in the word of God, and I started to grow and mature as a person and in my faith, and believe me, you know, I'm like everybody else, there's, there's days that I'm weak and days that I'm strong.
strong. So when I started to grow and all that, the Lord would bring me to his scriptures. And I remember somebody coming to me and saying, do you know, if you have the faith of a mustard seed, you can move a mountain. I thought, what does that mean? What in the world does that mean? And I'll tell you, Some great Christian friends.
I've met some, not perfect people, but I've met some great people in my life that gave me some bad advice. Right, right. They got, their intentions were great. I had people just say, now love, you just forgive and forget now. You know, and I had it all in between. But when God brought me to that scripture, I really just prayed and I said, Lord, what does that mean?
You know, I understood the... imagery of it. I understood small to do something large. And the Lord continued to speak to me in that imagery. And he said to me in my heart, it wasn't an audible voice. It wasn't a one day prayer meeting. It wasn't, but it was just that confirmation in my heart that the Lord was speaking to me.
And I really believe the Lord said to me, said, Mark, can you move a pebble? I said, yeah, I can move a pebble. I, I know how to move pebbles. I mean, pebbles, that's not very hard. And that's all I want you to move today. I just want you to move a pebble. And that pebble would become a stone, and that stone would become a, a rock, and that rock would become a boulder, and that boulder would become a mound, and that mound would become a hill.
And in that journey was life. I got married, I had kids. I, I became a pastor. I, I pastored churches, I did weddings and funerals and dedications and communion and, you know, mission trips. And, and I had, I had one step forward and two step back. And I wanted to throw in the towel. I shook my fist at heaven more than once.
And then recently when my mom passed, the Lord said to me, Mark, are you ready to go move that mountain? I knew what the mountain was, and I said, Lord, I don't know if I can do that. I don't know if I can do it. And the Lord said, Mark, how'd you move the pebble and the stone and the boulder and the mound?
And I said, well, you helped me, God. You helped me do all of it. You led me, you taught me, you rebuked me, you strengthened me, you gave me your word and your spirit. And the Lord said, now how are we going to move that mountain? We're going to move that mountain by... Letting him let God lead us. But again that didn't happen overnight and there's the journey I mean that was a 30 year journey.
I just wrapped up in a sentence, you know, that was from 16 to 50 You know that I just wrapped up and in that journey and I was angry at times I was I asked God the hard questions God if you're real then why did this happen to me? I thought you loved me God then why? God is not fair. You know, I wanted revenge.
I wanted my piece of flesh. I wanted that person to, to burn, burn, burn, you know, God, justify me. But as I learned to become closer to Christ, as I learned to die to self, and I'm still learning that. You can talk to my wife. She'll tell you, I'm still learning that. Aren't we all? That's right. As I learned to allow God to lead me, you know, to, you know, there's a great scripture in Matthew that tells us.
Come to me, all who are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest. And if we continue to read down, it says, learn from me. And how do we learn from God? You know, there's no course. There's no, there's no textbook. We don't sign up for credit hours. We learn from God by spending time with God. Absolutely. And how do we spend time?
God in his word, right? In his spirit, in his prayer. So that's how I learned. And again, I'm not saying this as somebody who says, Oh, it was easy. And I just walked on water and I tiptoed through the tulips. No, there's a lot as much failure in this comment as there is victory. Right. Right. Wow, Mark, that's amazing.
And so I love how you really highlighted God's Um, patience and his gentleness. And he is like, we're just moving a pebble at a time. , we're just taking this. Mm-hmm. , we're on this journey together. Um, but then he did bring you to that point of, okay, are you ready to move the mountain? And so would you say today that you have forgiven those who have hurt you fully?
I, I, I can, but let me just say it this way. I had to learn what forgiveness was. Yeah, can you explain to our listeners what forgiveness is? Sure, sure. That's a great point. I had to learn. I had to learn because I was told, forgive and forget, forgive and let go, you know, it's gone. You know, it's over. Let it go.
Set it free. Cast it away. Pray it out. Command it out. Do you have, you know, and I, but when I learned that. Forgiveness isn't a one time event. Right. You know, as I mentioned earlier, in the Lord's Prayer, He says, what? Give us this day our daily bread and help us forgive those who trespass against us. I think that daily is the same thing.
We have to eat daily and sometimes we got to forgive daily. Some days I wake up and I say, You know, Lord, the flesh is weak. I got to forgive again. Yeah. And then there's another thing I realized was Saying I forgive didn't mean that I didn't seek justice. I wasn't saying it's right just because I'm saying I forgive.
I wasn't, I wasn't saying, oh, it's okay. I wasn't saying I approve. I was not saying that I'm okay. You know what, I'm forgiving, but what you did is still wrong. And I still seek justice. I still seek, you know, righteousness. So I'm not, my forgiveness is not an approval of the offense. My forgiveness is a step of faith through God.
Also, I would say that I had to learn healthy boundaries. That's good. You know, just because I forgave the person who, who stole the pound of flesh from me doesn't mean now I want to have Christmas morning and sing kubaya. Exactly. You know, he But I had children and you know, I did of course my children was separated from that abuse situation They never knew knew this person because of the so yeah, I forgave because Christ has forgiven me But I had my boundaries.
I had my I had my You know my safe fences up if you would I did not seek and say oh, hey pal Let's go get a cup of coffee. No, you know, I forgave And just because I didn't want to do kumbaya moments doesn't mean that I didn't forgive. And forgiveness was a discipline for me. It was a spiritual di I didn't feel like it, but God told me to.
And sometimes, God had to become bigger. God had to become bigger. See, the mountain that casted its shadow over my life for a long time was the mountain of abuse. I hated myself. See, I would walk in the room and I would say, Uh, when's somebody going to tell me to be quiet? Once somebody's gonna tell me I'm dumb, once somebody's gonna call me fat, once somebody's gonna call me stupid, once somebody's gonna insult me, when are they gonna realize, and that mountain of lies and hurt and insecurity and fear casted its shadow over me forever.
But when I realized forgiveness, what it did, it made God bigger. And the light of God, the mountain of God, God became bigger and the light of God casted out all the lies of the enemy. Oh, believe me, they still try to raise up, but I'll tell you, God became bigger because I spent time with God. And I am far from perfect, far from perfect.
And this journey was one step forward and two steps back. Uh, I love the altar. The altar brought me to the next altar, I had my counselors, I had my coaches, I had my pastors, I had my, my friends that I could cry on the shoulder with, and so the journey has many facets in how God brought me to forgiveness, ultimately through Him, but God used my community and my friends, you know the kind of friends that go, hey bro, you need a tic tac?
You know those friends? The friends that can read your mail, and you're like, knock it off. Who are you telling? Knock it off. Right? But those kind of friends, you know, I thank God I had those kind of friends in my life that could say, mark, it's not as bad as you think. You know, not everybody hates you, but when you have been programmed, you know when you have been.
When you have been, um, abused so long. You know, what do they say? I, I think, uh, there's an expression like how do you keep an elephant tied up? And I think the old, the old saying is that when they're young, when they're little, they tie them up with a tight chain. And no matter how hard they pull, they pull, they pull, they can't, they can't break the chain.
But when a full grown elephant could break that chain in ease. But it's been so brainwashed that it can't. And for me, as an abuse victim, that's the way I was. I was so brainwashed, you know, I, I was so brainwashed that I, I, I let the words of my, my abuser become louder than the words of God. And that's where it comes so important to renew your mind.
Like you were saying in God's word. So you're saturating your mind in his truth and what he says about you and in his presence. So he can show you who he is and who you truly are. Amen. Amen. I love how he gave you also just such a supportive community of people to walk through this journey with you.
He's just so faithful to do that. Right. What a vast difference from, you know, what you were surrounded with just years prior. Right. Yeah. Sure. Sure. I think it's important to just, um, revisit the point that you made about how forgiveness is not just a one time decision. And when those wounds are really deep, um, you can make the decision of your will, because that's what it is, a decision of your will to forgive.
And just because you wake up the next day and you're still upset, that doesn't mean that you didn't mean it when you forgave them. You meant it, but that, that wound is still there. And so God, he will have us. Forgive and then forgive again and then forgive again and forgive again and during that process One I think he's building in us like this righteous endurance in tenacity and and Also, he's teaching us how to Die to our flesh and die to our own will and die to our pride.
And it is such, I'm sure you can attest such a painful process, . Oh man. Yeah, it sure is. But he's. So faithful to, to reward your obedience. And I don't believe that God has us do that. So he can keep us in that wounded place forever. You know, I believe that God, he does bring the healing layer by layer and sometimes drastically all at once.
And he's just so faithful and good like that. Well, you know, it's funny you say that because when my wife gave birth to our first child, you know, all the nerves of a first time dad, all the excitement, all the blessings and concerns and everything was flowing through me. And my son came into the world the usual way, and they put him in my arms.
And of course, I'm somewhere between crying and, and And, and afraid and excited and prayerful, all the emotions that come through a new dad. And as I held my son, uh, the enemy started to lie to me. The enemy started to say, see, no one ever loved you that much. Cause you know, when you're holding this baby in your arm and you realize you'd step in front of a bus for him, you realize they're going to get the last piece of pie.
You realize that no matter how much milk gets, they're going to get the last drop. I mean, you just realize. How much you're gonna give and as I held this baby and I prayed for my son and and I remember the enemy Say no one ever loved you that much Wow, no one ever cared. No one would have given you the last piece No one would ever get in front of and this lie was filling my head the same moment as my son was just moments old And then the holy spirit came over me and I and again I was in the hospital.
It wasn't this, you know real Charismatic moment. It was just the inner moment for me and the holy spirit came over me But god said I always did I always loved you that I always loved you that, I always loved you that much. I've always been there for you. I am your Abba father. And, you know, now we have four kids, I got three girls, my son's heading off to college soon.
All he does is want money and borrow the car. But that, you know... I love it. But, you know, those are the moments that remind me of what God has done in my life. And God has given me so much more. You know, I got to meet my earthly father. He was 45 years old. I was 40. Excuse me. I was 45 years old. He was in his late 80s.
And we got to know each other for about two or three years. We got to connect. We got to talk about health issues and why and what. If, and it was the right time in my life cause you know, it was just, I didn't expect him to be daddy, but it was nice to at least know where I came from. You know, he asked me, is there anything you want to know about me?
I said, I just wanted to know if you were bald or not. That's really all I needed to know. I already know you're short and chubby cause I am too, but we've got a good haircut. That's hilarious. Oh my gosh, Mark. Well, your story is just amazing and I applaud you for One, sharing it so publicly and two, being obedient to God.
I just, I mean, that's such a testament to you as a person that even though, like you said, forgiving the nightmare, like even that you walked through this nightmare, you still made the choice to forgive those who, um, who had done you so wrong. And you're such an example to those around you. And, um, for those of you listening.
Mark, you're a pastor now, right? Am. I am a pastor, yeah. Yes, so Mark is a pastor and he actually has a ministry called ForgivingTheNightmare. com and he wrote a book. Can you tell us about that book or what? It's called Forgiving the Nightmare, right? It is. That was a name the Lord gave me years ago. Uh, the Lord said to me one time, I was praying at the altar and, and the Lord said to me, Mark, you're going to write a book.
And I said, Lord, you know, I read it about a third grade level, maybe you forgot. He said, Mark, you're going to write a book. A great man of faith I am. I said, Oh yeah, God, if this is you and not the pizza last night, then what am I going to call that book? And I was about 21, 22 years old and the Lord said, you'll call it Forgiven the Nightmare.
And again, it took another, 30 plus years to put pen to paper and my wife helped me and friends helped me, but we were able to write this Book, so we wrote it and it's actually a little bit of what I talked to you about today But there's it goes into a little bit more depth. I kind of talk about the steps that I use every day you know the road the trail markers I call them what you know, the That systematic step.
They may not be everybody's steps, but there's a systematic step that I kind of hold myself to, you know, you know, I don't wanna live as a victim anymore. I, I wanna, I, I wanna make sure my prayer life is strong. I can get so easily interrupted. I wanna make sure my reading, me reading the scripture. Am I still there?
Am I, am I a, am I still forgiving? You know, am I, am I walking humbly? This is some of the practical experiences of walking with the Lord. So I put that in the book, but yeah, so the book's about a journey about forgiveness. And again, I didn't call it forgiving the abuse. I called it forgiving the nightmare because everybody has a nightmare.
Everybody has a. Everybody, the enemy has tried to hold us back and give us a name that we're never supposed to have. You know, for a long time, all I saw in myself was junk. That was the name I carried, that was the name I lived to, that's the name I answered to. But God called me out, and he said, Mark, you're no longer a victim, but now you're victorious.
Come on. And now the new, yeah, the new name I live under is, you know, is this servant. I hope, I hope it's servant's the most hot. But, you know, when I, when I stopped hating myself. Because I started to love God. What is one of the greatest commandments? To love thy neighbor as yourself and as I learn to love myself because God loves me I'll be able to love others and forgive others.
So again, forgive the nightmare is far more than just about forgiving the abuse It's about it's about forgiving those traumas and I get into a little bit more a little bit more about me And I'll see a picture of my ugly mug on the book and everything like that Oh, right. Well, we will link that book in the comments.
If you are struggling with unforgiveness or you can relate to Mark's story, please check out his book. That would be amazing. So Mark, what would you say to somebody who is currently in that very broken place? They are, they have gone through trauma and they are still holding on to those feelings of Anger and resentment and they have not yet taken that step towards forgiveness.
What would you say to them first thing? I would say is you're not alone One of the biggest lies out there is that you're the only one that's gone through what you've gone through You're the only one that's dealt with an addiction or a death or an abuse or a sorrow or a pain or a divorce You're the only one or your case is the worst case and no one will ever understand That's the lie of the enemy who loves to separate us There are people who have walked through what you have walked through.
There are people that have, have been over the same ground, have prayed through the same, prayed through the same issues. There are people that have wisdom and support. So you're not alone. There's a community. You can find them online and ominously. I'm sure you can find them in your, in your city, in your town, find some kind of support group.
But I'll tell you, you're not alone. There's people that are always stretching out their arms saying, Hey, let me. Show you what I know because I I drank from that same cup So the first thing I said not alone and don't let the lies of the enemy because you know what pain comes out, right? No matter that pain we hold in it's gonna come out somewhere Anger always breaks something and if we don't let that anger out often breaks us, you know breaks up So, so that anger and that pain has to come out.
So the first thing I'd say is you're not alone. And then the second thing I'd say, you probably don't, I don't know if you believe it or even trust it, but God loves you. God loves you. He sent his son, Jesus Christ, to die for you. And what you went through is not, God didn't send it. God didn't do it. God is with you to give you life.
Life more abundant. I love it. So good. Mark. Thank you so so much for being on here with us today It has been an absolute joy. I love your story. I love your enthusiasm It's just been such a such a gift to us and to our listeners. So we really appreciate you Well, thanks for having me, and may the Lord be glorified.
Amen. Yes. Thank you, Mark. We really appreciate it. Thank you, and God bless you, and thank you for doing what you do. This is your pulpit. This is your place where you share the messages of others, as the book of Revelation tells us. It's by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony. So thank you for allowing other people to say, I've been through a journey.
I've been through a season. I've been in a valley. But God pulled me out. Amen. So good. Thank you.
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