Overcoming Addiction: Writing As a Path to Healing with Jack Raymond

On this episode of Breakfast of Choices, I sit down with Author Jack Raymond to discuss his personal journey with addiction and recovery.

Jack shares his early experiences with alcohol as a child, after being given a shot of Jack Daniels by college students at just 6 years old. He reflects on growing up with addict parents and how that influenced his own relationship with drinking later in life.

We discuss Jack's decade of active addiction and what finally led him to his first AA meeting after hitting an all-time low. Jack gets real about the manipulation and gaslighting he engaged in during a relationship at the height of his alcoholism.

Jack also opens up about how getting sober two years ago allowed him to reconnect with his creativity and produce his most meaningful work. He details his book the Kindred Project that connected him with readers through their shared struggles.

For anyone struggling with addiction themselves or who wants to better understand the recovery process, Jack shares valuable insights from his journey. His story provides hope and perspective on overcoming obstacles to build a fulfilling sober life.

Don't miss out on this raw yet uplifting conversation with Jack about addiction, creativity, and finding purpose through openness and connection.

Connect with Jack:
https://www.instagram.com/j.raymond/
The Kindred Project: https://jraymond.bigcartel.com/product/pre-order-the-kindred-project

From Rock Bottom to Rock Solid.

We all have them...every single day, we wake up, we have the chance to make new choices.

We have the power to make our own daily, "Breakfast of Choices"

Resources and ways to connect:

Facebook: Jo Summers
Instagram: @Summersjol
Facebook Support: Chance For Change Women’s circle

National suicide prevention and crisis, hotline number 988

National domestic violence hotline:
800–799–7233

National hotline for substance abuse, and addiction:
844–289–0879

National mental health hotline:
866–903–3787

National child health and child abuse hotline:
800–422–4454

CoDa.org
12. Step recovery program for codependency.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:07

Welcome to Breakfast of Choices, the weekly podcast that shares life stories of transformation. Each episode holds space for people to tell their true, raw and unedited story of overcoming intense adversity. From addiction and incarceration, mental illness, physical and emotional abuse, domestic violence, toxic families, codependency and more. Trauma comes in so many forms. I'm your host, Jo Summers, and also someone who hit my lowest point before realizing that I could wake up every day and make a better choice, even if it was a small one. So let's dive into this week's story together to learn from and find hope through someone's journey from rock bottom to rock solid, Because I really do believe you have a new chance every day to wake up and make a change, to create your own. Breakfast of Choices.

Speaker 2: 1:09

Good morning. I'm your host, jo Summers, and this is the Breakfast of Choices podcast Real-life stories of transformation from rock bottom to rock solid. I am so excited and very grateful to have my guest today, jack Raymond. I reach out to Jack off of Facebook as I've been following him for quite a while. He's from San Diego, which is my hometown, but he is a phenomenal writer. He is an author of six published books and he's working on his seventh right now. You may already know him by some of his writings. He's been sharing on social media for over 10 years. The Kindred Project is so raw and vulnerable and he's now working on volume two of the Kindred Project.

Speaker 2: 1:52

He is the best-selling author of Spades, let Her Run. He has been doing custom poetry for years. His writing is deep, it's poetic, amazing, inspiring. I literally get chills every time I read. I say, oh my gosh, this is my favorite. And then I read the next one and say, no, this is my favorite. I literally have several Ask Her why, from Spades Let Her Run, settle for More.

Speaker 2: 2:16

The Kindred Project this is how you Love Yourself. The Kindred Project I Will Be the One. The Kindred Project. Many poems from Let Her Run. Literally, he speaks to me. Every time I read something he wrote, it comes from his soul. Jag was gracious enough to accept my invite to be on the podcast to discuss his life struggles lifelong with alcoholism, starting with his parents' addictions when he was very young. He vividly remembers the first drink that he took. He shares many insights in his story of recovery and where he's at today, still actively working his program. Jack has been sober since July 7th of 2022, and he has amazing things going on in his life, and I'm going to go ahead and let Jack share his story. Thanks so much for being with me today and I'm going to let Jack go ahead and tell his story.

Speaker 3: 3:09

Well, thank you, joe, thank you for having me. And yeah, my story maybe it's just best to always start from the beginning. I don't have a ton of childhood memories but I still find it fascinating that I can remember the first drink I ever had, and I don't say this proudly. Sometimes I hear people in recovery talk about their first drink and they almost wear like a badge of honor. I was six years old and it was an accident. So it wasn't like I just had a stressful day at preschool and needed a stiff drink at the end of the time. It wasn't like that. My childhood wasn't that rough. You said by accident, kind of. I mean all right.

Speaker 3: 3:49

So I was six years old and we lived in an apartment complex, my family and I, in South Florida, and we lived not too far from a college campus and there was a group of college kids who were somewhere around our building and they were all drinking outside. I'm assuming it was a group of college kids who were somewhere around our building and they were all drinking outside. I'm assuming it was a weekend. They were probably out of class and just hanging out and I remember vividly seeing a bottle with my name on it, a jack daniels bottle. Oh, my gosh right, six years old, that's pretty cool. And so I remember poking around and I was like hey, that bottle has my name on it and these college kids thought it was a good idea to give me a shot which today, any day. But you know it's insane to get a six year old, you don't know a shot of Nathaniel's Not, yeah Right, well, so I do do remember drinking it not enjoying it all that much, of course and about 15 minutes later turning quite green and ill. And I remember I went inside and I was, I think I was like sitting on my mom's lap, whatever I was around my mom, that's what I remember. I remember projectile vomiting.

Speaker 3: 5:10

She couldn't figure out what was wrong with me, but here was the interesting thing I learned early how to lie about it. I couldn't tell her that I had just drank with these college kids, even at six years old. I knew they were going to get in a lot of trouble. Just drank with these college kids, I knew they were. Even at six years old, I knew they were going to get in a lot of trouble. I knew that. So not not that this like had deep seed of being a conniving alcoholic took root at six years old. But it is interesting because that is kind of what morphed into the kind of person I was later in life. So I didn't tell her, I didn't tell anything, tell them anything. But my parents, both of them, were alcoholics.

Speaker 2: 5:46

Okay, that's how you knew. Like you shouldn't talk about it. Maybe I better lie about this. Okay, that's making sense, I gotcha.

Speaker 3: 5:55

And it's probably why I recognized the Jack Daniels bottle at six years old too, growing up around that, as anybody who's grown up around addicts knows, I have a younger brother who's four years younger than me, and I'm not by any means saying that I raised him but I a really young age every night to rid my family of this addiction, and it was just. I grew up in a very volatile household. It was normal during the days, but evenings and weekends were so scary and chaotic and unpredictable and I promised myself that I was never going to join. I was never going to be like. My parents were Right. And then I was 25 years old, selling insurance for a living, a job that I hated but was very different than the blue collar working man job that my father had. And I thought, since I'm going to be nothing like him, I will drink and I'll go into corporate America. Well, I mean, it was, you know, made sense.

Speaker 3: 7:15

But when I was about 25 years old, my father passed away. He was 53. And that became a very important part of my life. I was so proud to be his son, but I was so ashamed of his addiction that I didn't see any of the good qualities of him. I didn't see how much like him that I was and it rocked me to my core. To my core. I remember knowing that I was going to have to give his obituary and do a little speech and at his commemoration party get together thing. And I remember while writing his obituary it turned into this manic two-day pouring out of my soul love letter all the things I wish I had told him just that I was proud to be his son and that I wasn't proud of the man that I was becoming and I knew as sure as I've ever known anything in my life that I wanted to be a writer for a living. In that moment, yeah, I ended up quitting my job a couple weeks later and I have been writing full time professionally since then. So I've been very lucky and a lot has happened since then.

Speaker 3: 8:31

But his past also triggered a change in my career. But this weird love affair romance I had with alcohol. It was a weird way to keep my father's memory alive. I used to tell people all the time you know, if my father was alive, the one thing I'd want to do with him is have a drink, which is so foolish. It's part of the reason why he passed away so young. So if he's looking down on me he's probably thinking, please, god, no, let's not do that. I'd like to hug my son, not have a shot with him. So that became my thinking.

Speaker 3: 9:14

And what better profession for a budding alcoholic to start and then becoming a writer? It was so perfect for alcoholism it's almost encouraged in that field. You're the drunken artist. I was making such a fool of myself and hurting people. It almost seemed like the more reckless I became and the deeper my alcoholism grew, and then drugs grew in my life, the more my career thrived. One wasn't it. It wasn't correlated, it one didn't have to do, just happened to parallel. But in my mind I associated the two. The drinker I, the crazier I got, the more books I would sell.

Speaker 2: 10:07

The creative artist's mind. You know, the creative artist's mind taking that effect where in your drunken state totally makes sense, right?

Speaker 3: 10:17

Yep, I totally associated the two and um as a lot it it just. It turned into about a decade of just really hurting myself, ostracizing the people who cared about me. Almost all the relationships I had were failing or had failed. I started to see a lot of people around me passing away, getting locked up, passing away, getting locked up. It's not lost on me that how lucky I am to be here, that I didn't hurt anybody or myself, because I'll tell you, I spent a solid six plus years where there wasn't a day that I drove where I wasn't drunk and with a driver. I didn't even have a driver's license, and with a driver I didn't even have a driver's license. So I was that guy who used to say things like I drive better intoxicated because it helps me focus which is also foolish.

Speaker 2: 11:14

Right, right, right. I mean you can see that now, but at the time that is active addiction, right.

Speaker 3: 11:21

Right. So I kept writing, kept getting sicker and I'll tell you, I guess I'll. I'll the the middle of that, the, the body of those 10 years, look probably a lot like a lot of that, you know, just hurting people, hurting myself, blowing all the money I have, all the opportunities that were coming, any relationship or love I had in my life was, you know, I was neglectful, so that part's, you know, most people can wrap their head around that. The end of of it was a little about two years ago. My, my, my, sober cloning day is july 7th, 2022. So I'm coming up on two years, seven, seven total, but around that year, for most of the first part of 2022, 2022, I was.

Speaker 3: 12:16

I was in a relationship and the person that I was with I had been with them for about four years or so. I thought that that was the person I was going to spend my life with. Let me just rewind real quick. I had a son with a woman. The same year my father passed away, probably trying to cope with his loss Met someone, latched onto them. She got pregnant.

Speaker 3: 12:46

We weren't long for this world. We lasted a couple years barely. There wasn't much of a relationship there, and then we separated. I moved away. A few years after moving away, she asked if I would give him up for adoption and give up my rights for him, which at the time, in addiction, sounded great. Now I was completely unencumbered, unfettered, without the obligations or responsibility of child support or even having to one day get back into his life.

Speaker 3: 13:17

Now I meet this other woman. We're together for a few years. We pretty much are enabling each other's addictions at this point, but I thought that was who I was goingictions at this point. Um, but I thought that was who I was going to spend my life with. I thought that we would get it in check. Maybe as I, as we got older, we would just somehow naturally mature out of it. That was my thinking.

Speaker 3: 13:34

Well, it was driving her crazy and I had promised her no less than 30, 40 times that I was never going to drink again. You know, I'm I'm going to quit. You're right, I need to get help. You're right, this is too much. I don't know how many times I apologized to her. I'm a writer by profession, so the number of I'm sorry apology letters that I had written to that woman, yeah, bundle. So it had finally really started to come to a head and she said this is it? No more, you can't drink anymore. And I said okay, you're right, I I was drinking that same night. I had turned into such a conniver, such a manipulator. I was so covert with my addiction and creative really, it was. Probably most of my creativity was going was figuring out how to drink without anybody fighting out yeah you know I was so good about it.

Speaker 3: 14:30

I knew which alcohols were easier to mask, which one would get me drunk quickest, which one you could hide under a you know mouthwash vest, and you know and how much time I needed between dropping her off at work and whenever I would see her again. It was just it's not an extra.

Speaker 2: 14:51

It's amazing the time and the energy and the creativity and all of those things that you focus on, that, that you could have been you know to be focusing on something else, but it's. It is amazing that you can do all of that and use all of that energy in that way to cover up active addiction. That is crazy.

Speaker 3: 15:13

Yeah, really is.

Speaker 3: 15:16

And boy did I gaslight her because every time she even thought maybe I was drinking again, I would spin it around just so. You know, beautifully and poetically, that by the end that she was saying sorry, somehow, which you know this. It's just pathetic. Well, the my last drink, okay. So as as ridiculous as my first drink was, my last drink might be one of the worst last drinks I've ever heard anybody out.

Speaker 3: 15:46

You're living in new orleans and which is a great place, by the way, to get sober and clean, was great great community of people there who were burnt out. So it's, you know, some I've heard people say you know, well, you know, I can't live there, I gotta move here or there. Whatever, there's a great. The harsher in your mind the state is, the better community there is. So you know there's that too. Yeah, makes sense.

Speaker 3: 16:11

It was probably about two or three in the morning. The woman that I was with was was asleep like a normal person and I was downstairs in my office working and I was really annoyed at myself because I had done all the drugs and drank all the liquor I had hidden and that really pissed me off. Yeah, I was just mad at myself. I was contemplating walking the two miles. I couldn't take the car. I think she would have heard that I was contemplating, like you know, maybe even taking one of the bikes off of the bike rack and going to the market at 3 am just to get some. And I remembered in the back recess of my addict brain that we had, a couple weeks prior, bought um some red wine and we had read or heard somewhere that if you have fruit flies in your house or in your kitchen, if you put a little cup of red wine by the windowsill or by your fruit, it'll catch the fruit flies, will fly in it and it'll attract them and kill them.

Speaker 3: 17:16

Oh boy, I remember walking up those stairs. It wasn't even a problem. It wasn't even like should I do this? Is this wrong? I didn't think anything of it. I thought so little of myself. A normal person would have probably at least fished out whenever bugs or dust or crap was in there, but to me it was like a perfect shot, size Olo. So I just looked and again, I didn't really think anything of it. I think I knew mostly that my night was over after that, which again was frustrating. I was one of those ones that never wanted the party day, yeah. So I woke up the next morning and I think she probably just saw it on my face or knew the shame that I was wearing, and she said this is, we're done. And it was the first time that I think I knew she meant it and maybe to get her off of my back or maybe a part of me just really knew this was getting out of control.

Speaker 3: 18:13

I googled an AA meeting. I looked to see where the nearest meetings were and I told her okay, I'll go to a meeting Again. I think maybe just helping to get her off my back because I didn't think it was that big of a deal. I just knew she was freaking out. And here's what.

Speaker 2: 18:30

Thought you could figure it out. Save it yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:33

Exactly, yeah, she's overreacting. Mostly is what I thought. Right, and here's what was really sad was when I, when I opened my phone and went to search for the nearest aa meeting, your recovery or treatment center, in my like, most recent google search history was the phrase how much alcohol do you need to drink to kill yourself? That's that's where I really honestly was, so that broke my heart in the moment. To see that it breaks my heart a lot more now to think about all the beautiful things that have happened since I've gotten sober that I would have missed out on, and all the things that I have yet to experience, that I thought that quitting was maybe the better option for me. That part, still to this day, makes me sad.

Speaker 2: 19:27

Understand. I've lost someone to suicide and it's all those things Very sad, all of what could have been.

Speaker 3: 19:32

Yeah, yeah, I remember thinking you know what alcohol is easiest to keep down to, because I was pardon me. I remember feeling like, well, it'd be really tragic if I tried to drink myself to death and maybe I picked the wrong alcohol and I throw it up and live, or something like that. That's how low of a state of mind I was on. So I begrudgingly went to this meeting and it was the most important thing that had ever happened to me. I hear people in recovery talk a lot about how great and beautiful their life is today and that's awesome. But in that, in the early days of my recovery, I didn't want to hear any of that. I thought people who were happy with Lonnie. I thought they'd be full of shit if they were happy.

Speaker 3: 20:24

So when I went to those meetings the first one I remember sitting there and hearing people tell their stories and every single one of them had done things that I hadn't done. They were just like me. They didn't look like me, they didn't sound like me. They were just like me. They didn't look like me, they didn't sound like me. They were exactly like me. And I remember my ego, my huge, massive ego. I remember thinking to myself I'm going to tell them this story about the couple of bugs I just drank last night and it's going to devastate them and they're just going to rally around me sobbing like, oh, our savior is here. Just that was silly. And so I told them this story. Half of the room laughed because they were like oh, I've done that, all right, I used nothing, right. One guy in the back room was like that's protein right, right.

Speaker 2: 21:18

And they were really like oh my gosh, they are like me, right, then you're just start like. You start, your head starts spinning.

Speaker 3: 21:23

You're like oh my gosh, like wow and I'm sure the other half of the room is like who the hell is this guy? I've never seen him, so it was just beautiful. I remember going home and and on my walk home, hoping that she wasn't home because I felt my insides coming undone. I I got home and I walked right into the bathroom. She wasn't home and I absolutely came unraveled. I cried like I had never cried before and I remember saying out loud I don, please, I don't want to live like this anymore, and from that day it feels like the world has bent in my direction.

Speaker 3: 22:11

It hasn't been easy all the time. Of course. My problems are so small compared to what they were. It's amazing how I used to tell myself well, I'll have to find a new career if I ever get sober, because how could I ever create Sober, which is just total BS? It's like half of my time was spent hungover, with zero energy. I was basically consuming just straight depression. It's a downer. To begin with, I had to take another drug to get back up again, so I'm just tearing my mental health in half, thinking this is the healthiest way for me to be a professional. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:50

Crazy Right Active addiction again, that's. That's you're running, you know you're working.

Speaker 3: 22:56

So the first kind of massive speed bump, because boy was I on that pink cloud. Right away I thought everything was going to figure itself out. Now the woman that I was with who again I thought was the one, told me just spend the next 90 days focusing on your own sobriety and getting well. And then, by the end, you know after that, because I told her I was going to do 90 meetings in 90 days and I don't know why we put this arbitrary 90-day number mark on it Like I need more pressure. So anyway, that was it, and before the 90 days was up, she was already with another man in our home. Another man in our home. So I, I, that was the closest I came to saying, well, this isn't worth it. Right, like what's the point? But the much more larger part of my heart realized I needed to do this for me at this. It wasn't, it wasn't about her anymore. Yeah, it wasn't about my family or my friends or my career. It wasn't about any of that.

Speaker 2: 24:04

That's the main point, isn't it? That is absolutely the main thing. You have to do it for you. You can't do it for anybody else.

Speaker 3: 24:10

You have to do it for you addicts say, or alcoholics say, where it's like you know, well, maybe I can, maybe I'll just have a drum kit in here. Well, I've never done that, so why would it start suddenly? You know, whatever, I'm not the kind of person who ever just has one drink. So I I knew that, even if I went out and had one drink, that the wheels were now right back in motion and it might not be that night or that week or weekend or next week, but eventually I was going to. Still, I was going to end up in the gutter again. 100, the end is always, or that like. So I just didn't need, I needed to not have the first trip forever. And you know, all the little cliches helped me. Some people are annoyed by them, not me, you know. So I remember all those. Yeah, I remember calling my sponsor and just like they think this is where my brain goes is like, wow, I've seen I'm. I can't have a drink ever again. Well, you know, if I lived to 80, I'm doing the math, this is 50 years and it's like what I'm doing? That game. So, yeah and uh, he's like you don't have to stay sober forever. And that was the first time I'd heard that and I was like what he was like you don't have to stay sober forever, just don't drink today, don't use today, that's all, don't worry about for him, just not today. So that was whatever weird mental trickery that was good enough to work on me, yep, and slowly I started to just rebuild all the things that I had lost, my career starting to take off.

Speaker 3: 25:53

Um, I remember once I kind of like detoxed a little bit and got it all out of my system.

Speaker 3: 25:59

This is maybe like by the second or third week.

Speaker 3: 26:01

I remember I woke up at like 4 30 in the morning like with a jolt and I just had I never had this much energy, nothing I can remember. And you know, granted, I was going to sleep by like 9, 9, 30 at night, because now I'm not out partying and using all the time, so I'm going to sleep at a respectable hour and waking up early and I just had this unbelievable amount of energy. And I remember, well, I'm thinking like well, I guess I'm up now and getting up and taking a shower or being in the shower, or just weirdly thinking to myself I feel great, not like I'm bummed to be awake, I was just happy, and not that everybody is happy like that, but this was what my life is like. This is who I am. This is the real me. I do have energy and I am happy and I am in a good mood and and I am productive and I am all these things. So in a way, it felt like I was just returning kind of back to myself, maybe.

Speaker 2: 27:06

Yeah, changing the mindset too, changing your mindset of who you were Like all of a sudden, I am this guy. Look at me, I am. And that's huge because it does take changing your mindset, right.

Speaker 3: 27:18

Yeah, changing your mindset, right? Yeah, you know, and so I just did all the things that they, they said, do. After about a year I moved and I met somebody and I remember they messaged me on social media and I didn't know if it was a man or a woman. It was somebody who just had like a writing account, this little account on social media, where they would just share their little thoughts or ideas. There's photos of this person. I just remember getting a message from them and thinking who is this person? Normally I get a lot of messages on it. I don't respond to everybody, especially if it's somebody asking me to read their writing. Nothing good comes of that. Either it's somebody asking me to read their their writing no, nothing good comes of that. Either it's better than mine and I hate you for it, or it's terrible. I have to lie honest. I promise I love it. Yeah, if it's really good. I like you, jerk, so you don't have anything to worry about.

Speaker 2: 28:14

Yours is phenomenal.

Speaker 3: 28:16

Thank, you so. So I remember going through their page and I'm thinking well, you know, this is just their, their writing account. They probably follow themselves from their personal account. Now I'm like turning into an internet sleuth and this is not like me at all. I mean, that's, I was in my single era and I had just gotten an apartment again. I just bought furniture. Like an adult again, I just rebuilt my credit from nothing again, like I felt like I was. I didn't want to screw it up. Yeah, that's great. I was finally at peace with who I was and happy, honestly. I just moved to San Diego, which you know, my perfect place. Well, it's like he's sober. Oh, dude, I wouldn't walk. I walk to the gym and I'm just happy. The weather is, of course. I'm calling my friends and I'm like, dude, the weather in San Diego is really nice. We know, everybody knows that. Everybody knows it's the best, but it's even better than you think gorgeous, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 29:20

that's my happy place. I'll be honest. That water and that sun and that beach that is what I miss for real. So, yay you, I'm happy for you. I don't even think you're a jerk for it. I'm happy for you so.

Speaker 3: 29:32

I filed this one person who's liking their, anyway. I find out whose account. This is Okay, liking their, their, anyway. I find out whose account this is. And the second I see her I'm like, oh god, please don't let this be her. And it's her. And here's what's so amazing.

Speaker 3: 29:50

She lives 20 minutes from my whole family in south florida, on the other side of the country. And the second we started talking it was like you know every love story where it's like, right away, you know, you just connect with this person and it feels like you've known them forever. But I'll never forget our first conversation. She starts throwing out some of those corny cliche one-liners. She's speaking my language and it turns out she's been in recovery and is sober and clean for over four years herself. So it's like the universe it brought me so lucky just right when I was whatever. I don't know how ready we ever are, but when I was somebody more deserving of her, and it has been just when. I think it can't get any better. It gets better. And now I'm that annoying person who new people are probably like oh, whatever, listen to this guy, but it's, it's incredible, it's just, it does get better all the time. We just found out that we're having a baby girl together.

Speaker 3: 31:02

So everything that I lost these relationships, giving up my son, my career not only have they all come back, but they've come back in the most beautiful, perfect ways. Like my prayers are so small compared to what I've been given now and every day is it won't, I know it won't come without hardships. My prayers are so small compared to what I've been given now, every day is I know it won't come without hardships, but I just feel so sure of myself, so equipped now, I'm so confident that I have been through the worst parts of life. Now People will say but there's death. Trust me, I've seen the like that. That's grief and loss. I know it up close. So now I get to.

Speaker 3: 31:48

Now I get to honor the people that are in my life, the ones that love me, the ones that, yes, I will lose. I get to honor them with my presence, with my full. People always talk about using drugs and alcohol as a way to numb out. Right Now it gets the finest of my touch. I can feel it with my nerves, to my bones and my soul, and that's the coolest thing.

Speaker 3: 32:16

That, to me, is how I get to honor the people in my life who support my work still my wife, my daughter, who's on the way is they get all of me, whereas in the past, as great as I want to romanticize whatever fun I did have in active addiction, they were getting broken bits and pieces of me, and they were getting the worst broken bits and pieces of me on top of that, so You're hurting yourself all along the way. Yeah, so that's my story. It's been a beautiful, beautiful ride, and the writing part of it feels like I've had two careers. The first one was in a fog in days and the second one I get to actually help people. That's what I try to do now with my writing is it's not just about suffering and sickness, it's trying to connect with the people who read my work.

Speaker 2: 33:09

And, like I told you, you know I contacted you off of Facebook and asked you if you would do this with me because I've seen a little bit of your story. You were from my hometown, seen a little bit of your story, knew that we had some things in common other than the writing. But, as I told you, I was having a hard time picking my favorite right. I'm reading them and then they're coming across. I'm like this is my favorite. And then the next one I read, I'm like no, this is my favorite. Like oh my gosh, this guy is amazing. And I have read a little bit of your older stuff not much. Now that you've talked about it, I'm going to have to go back and sneak peek that a little bit and kind of see. But you're on how many books now? Where are you at Six, seven?

Speaker 3: 33:49

My sixth book yeah, my seventh book will be out this July.

Speaker 2: 33:53

That is wonderful, and tell me about the Kindred project that you did.

Speaker 3: 34:02

So this book is probably the most again, I'm going to probably say this about every book I publish, but this one will be this, the kindred project that I wrote last year when I got sober. It was the first book I've written, sober and clean. I didn't know how it would turn out. I didn't know if anyone would give a shit, excuse my language, I didn't know it. I was in such a good place that I didn't really care too much anymore because if, how well it did. I just wanted to prove to myself that I could. I didn't know what I was going to write about, and but here's how it came together.

Speaker 3: 34:33

So for 10 years I've been sharing my work on social media and people have asked me oh, would you, will you write a poem for me if I tell you my story? Or about my significant other, for my mother or father, whatever, if I tell you my story? So about nine, nine and a half years ago, I started offering custom poetry. People, just people would just send me, they'll order it, they'll send me an email with their life story, whatever they want me to know, and then I'll create a poem based off of that. It's rather impersonal, it's low touch, if I ever do need any extra information. If I'm not, whatever. If I need more inspiration from them, then I'll reach out, but usually I just read their email, create something from that, send it to them, and that's the end. Read their email, create something from that, send it to them. That's the end, in sobriety.

Speaker 3: 35:27

Because of these rooms that I was in, I learned the importance of community connection, actually helping people, not just being some reclusive writer hiding in my office. I wanted to actually work with and connect with the people who support my work. So I asked publicly for a hundred people, not thinking I would find a hundred, but I asked. I said I'm looking for a hundred people who want to spend time with me one-on-one, and share their story with me and create a piece of poetry together that will ultimately be in my next book, the Kindred Project. Okay, I didn't think I would find 100 people and I also had never interviewed anybody in my life, so I don't know why 100 was just a round number in my head. I didn't grasp the enormity of it. We had 100 people sign up in a week and I was like, oh shit, now I actually have to do this and I don't know what I'm doing, but we did it one at a time.

Speaker 3: 36:26

While I'm also new in recovery myself, this is probably four months sober, so I'm working my program and man, the stories that I heard when I was struggling, when I would hit a low point, were so grounding and it gave me so much perspective. I've always told the contributors of that book that, you know, sobriety saved my life. But it was huge, huge, very real way that project was kept me alive. Yeah, it was at a such a pivotal moment in my life where I didn't even know if I was going to in my head. I didn't. I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to do this professionally anymore.

Speaker 3: 37:12

And one at a time, I interviewed these people all around the world and heard their stories and was moped to tears by them, laughed with them. Some of them were beautiful love stories. A lot of them, probably 90% of them, were people who struggled in some ways, like I have and in other ways too. A lot of domestic violence, sexual assault, addiction, grief, illness, loss, depression. Just a lot of heaviness. And again, what a gift my sobriety gave me. I could have never done that project in addiction. It wouldn't have gotten the attention or energy it deserves. I would have been hungover or tired or not in the mood or just generally depressed. And now I was connecting with people who've read my work for 10 years, who supported me for 10 years. I'm sitting there just like this on the call and hearing their stories and turning it into poetry, publishing a book with it. That book came out last June and became a bestseller.

Speaker 3: 38:15

So how beautiful is that the universe bringing it together right Even from your dad passing bringing it together right even from your dad path way and the universe rewarded my energy where you did the work that I've done. Yeah, and, and you know whether you believe in god or a higher power or universe, whatever it is, to me it's all an energy, you know I I just try to trap into that and receive that it's it's. It's weird when do good things? Good things happen? Who would have thought?

Speaker 2: 38:45

Who would have thought that? Right? But I feel like, even with the passing of your dad, I feel like that connection with your dad was from the universe, saying this is what you're meant to do. You're not me, this is what you're meant to do. And you took it, you received it, you never even felt it before, right, and you're like this is what I'm supposed to do. So, just how it comes all around and the universe connects it and we're all connected. We're all part of this together, and you are doing it and hearing people's stories in books and poetry, and I am doing it in this fashion. But it's all about connection, right, and what you know, you know the one-liners addiction is the opposite of connection. We're all in this together, right? Yes, and I 100% believe that. I 100% do, and that's why I want to do this. That's why it's heart and soul for me to do this project, much like it was for you to do the kindred project, right, it's just, it's, it's a. You can't explain it, but you have to do it.

Speaker 3: 39:49

Yeah, I think it's beautiful it is one of those things where I I think I think it was like less, I think his name is less brown he he has this. I'm gonna try to not butcher butcher it, but he has this little speech that he gives or he talks about. Imagine you're at the end of your life and you're on your deathbed I know that's morbid, but imagine that and all around your hospital bed, your deathbed, are your dreams and your ambitions and your goals and your aspirations and all of the things meant for you. And they're all standing around your bed looking down on you and they're disappointed because they came to you specifically you, to bring them to life, and you didn't because of fear, your addiction, your short sightedness, whatever it was laziness, whatever are the things that hold us back. And all of these dreams and aspirations and goals are standing around and and they came specifically to you to bring them to life. No one else could do it, just you. And instead they go with you to the grave.

Speaker 3: 40:59

And when I heard him say that, oh, it killed me and I was like I'm doing that. I've been gifted this platform for whatever reason. The arts speak to me. I love, I love to write. I do it every day. If I never made a cent I would do it. And what am I doing with it? I'm bastardizing it by just getting drunk and losing drugs and making an ass of myself and not even respecting the people who are trying to support my art by respecting the art itself.

Speaker 3: 41:29

And that that was hard for me to grasp when I, when I finally pulled myself out of that and understood, like OK, why was I spared? A lot of people weren't? I know people who didn't drink anything anywhere close to the amount that I drink, that have hurt themselves or are in jail or have many DUIs. They've gotten into all sorts of trouble. Why was I spared? And I figured that there was a reason.

Speaker 3: 42:02

And in addiction, my ego would have never let me be open to the idea that maybe I'm here for a reason. Right, that sounded like hocus pocus, nonsense, but when you really start to look at your life, if you're open to the idea of maybe none of this is an accident, maybe you are here for a reason, maybe there is some divinity to why your whole purpose here, I started to realize that I can help people and that's why so many people were excited to be a part of the Kindred Project. They understood that the things they've overcome, the things that they've suffered and struggled with and fought through, this is a platform for them to tell other people how they did it. I think the only crime is to go through these things in life and then do nothing with it. We already all overcome something. We've suffered, we've struggled, we've fought through something and that'll help somebody with it Absolutely, absolutely. And all these platforms are perfect for your voice.

Speaker 2: 43:10

Just do it 100%, could not agree more, couldn't agree more, and I was so grateful that you would do this with me. Again, I reached out to you. You don't know me. You responded quickly. You were like absolutely, I would love to share my story to help other people. And I was like this is my tribe, these are my people. Right, because that's exactly right. We're here for a reason. We are here to share what we've been through that might help somebody else. It's just be kind. Be kind, and you never know what someone's going through. Right, you can just offer. You said you, you are you working in a program still?

Speaker 3: 43:48

Yeah, I am my. My wife and I still go to meetings and she's she's really good at not letting me weasel my way out of it and yeah, it's. There was a moment when we heard I first met, where I it started to get a little hairy, not in the sense that I saw myself drinking again, but I started to think about it and that was hard for me and this is true for a lot of addicts. So here I was with my whole life back in, not only back together, but in better than it had ever been. I was literally in the best physical shape I've ever been in mental health, financial health, everything was better, better, better, bigger, better. And still I walked by a bar one day and it was like a Tuesday in San Diego, the sun is shining, everybody's happy, they're walking their dogs, and I walked by a bar and all the doors and windows were open and there was a couple old guys in there watching a baseball game and, oh, my heart ached to do that. I wanted to be that and I thought, wow, why am I feeling that again? My life is so good, why would I even think about that? And it was because I had stopped doing the things that got me sober and happy and healthy again.

Speaker 3: 45:06

Yeah. So even when I try to pull away and you know, and think that I don't need it anymore, maybe I don't need it as much, maybe I don't need 90 meetings in 90 days but to completely detach from the thing that helps keep me alive and stay alive is, yeah, I wouldn't. It drives me crazy when I hear people say, well, I don't like meetings. The thing that helps keep me alive and stay alive is, yeah, I wouldn't. It drives me crazy when I hear people say, well, I don't like meetings. Well, who do you think does I like meetings? Right? Who cares about that? What do you think I'm like? Every time I'm in there I'm like, oh, thank God, friday night and an AME is exactly what I want to do me is exactly what I want to do Right, doesn't matter, I feel it. It's like a workout. I feel better afterwards. So I drag myself to some meetings and I always feel better afterwards.

Speaker 2: 45:50

Absolutely. And that's why I wanted to ask you that, because you're two years in and we get to that point where we're like we're in control, we're good, we don't we're good, we don't need it as much, we're fine. And then, like you said, you walk by somewhere and you go man, why can't I do that? You know you almost get mad. You know what I mean. It's kind of like. But you can't self-sabotage. You are deserving of everything that you have and we don't want to go backwards and logically, we know that. So we have to do the work right, we have to stay in and we have to do the work. And maybe it's not as much of, like you said, maybe it's not 90 and 90, but you still got to be active and you still got to do the work and I think that's important to know.

Speaker 3: 46:27

Program work in the steps if you need to, a sponsor is such a huge help. Things like this plugging into the resources you know fight. I am such a big believer in AA just because it worked for me. If you had told me to do therapy or some e-course or go to church, I'd probably still be out there. So I'm a big advocate for it. It works for me Right. And therapy you know it's scary when we start to realize how insane some of us are sober.

Speaker 2: 47:04

So well, trauma, trauma, right. 90% of addiction is trauma related, right? We've started. We started to mask something, to hide something, to cover something, to not feel something, and that's all still in there. So when you get sober, it's not easy because you can't run from yourself. So it's all still in there, right? And now you got to get it out. So that's the beginning part, and a lot of people don't like that, you know. They say they don't like a meeting and then they start to get to that part and wow, I don't even like this anymore. So, but you have to do the work and that's just part of it.

Speaker 3: 47:43

You know you have to love yourself and know what's the saying where it's like I heard somebody say it's like like drinking anything good in your life will be taken away by drink. So it's like I can't have a great relationship, a great career, money in my bank, good health, I can't have those things and drink. Now, if I drink, those things go. So like that really helps because I know I have a lot and the temptation seems ridiculous to have it. And then I just remind myself it's okay to have the temptation, but understand that following it will take everything. So that usually gets me out of it.

Speaker 2: 48:18

I'm glad. I'm glad that you said that, because people need to know what helps too. You know what I mean. What gets you out of it, what changes your mindset, what changes your thinking and all of that? Well, tell me, if somebody wanted to locate you, locate your writing, read your work, how could they do that?

Speaker 3: 48:32

All of my social medias have been what do the kids say these days? Lit, it's been lit, it's lit it for sure. Yeah, it's growing. It's growing really fast. On on facebook, I have an author account, jack raymond, j raymond writing. On instagram it's j raymond, j period raymond. And then all my books are available on amazon. I have six books and my seventh book, the kindred project, volume two, is coming out this year, june, july. So I thought, after the first one, I wasn't going to do one for years and I turned around and did it right away.

Speaker 2: 49:07

That's awesome.

Speaker 3: 49:08

Yeah, that's great. Jay Raymond on Amazon and Barnes Noble, we'll see all six and soon to be seven.

Speaker 2: 49:16

That is so awesome. Well, thank you again for doing this with me. It's been awesome to just hear your story and get to know you a little bit, and congratulations on everything that you have going on. I'm super excited for you, I'm proud of you. Congratulations on that baby. You've had, you said, a marriage, a roof coming up and a baby this year. So when you do it, you do it, you're all in. So it's like the making of the lost time. Absolutely Well, good for you and thanks again, jack. I appreciate it, and just you know everybody that hasn't had a chance to read his writing. You definitely want to look him up. It is seriously phenomenal. So, and thank you for everything that you put out there. It's heart and soul and you can tell.

Speaker 1: 50:12

I am so grateful that you joined me for this week's episode of Breakfast of Choices. If you're enjoying this podcast, please subscribe, give it five stars and share it to help others find hope and encouragement. The opposite of addiction is connection, and we are all in this together. Telling your transformational story can also be an incredible form of healing, so if you would like to share it, I would love to hear it. You can also follow me on social media. I'm your host, Jo Summers, and I can't wait to bring you another story next week. Stay with me for more Transformational Thursdays.