Global Majority perspective with Linda Thai

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Transcript

0:30

Linda, I want to start off by saying thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I want to give you reason to just pause for a second as I acknowledge that I am on Camarago land and pay my respect to elders past and present and express such divine gratitude to the ancestors of these lands and my ancestors. They continuously give me the courage and the audacity to do the work I do. And I want to say thank you, Linda. Because when I first came across you doing somatic embodiment course, you just reminded me of the power of pause. So thank you. I want to start by asking, how are you in the spirit of radical honesty? We never know whether this is even going to make the podcast. I don't know. I didn't know that this is the safe space, at least with me. Yes, I have a funny belly at the moment, in this moment. So I have a hand underneath my shirt, and I am making this. Circles on my bloated, bloated belly. Yes. Yes. And when you shared that with me just before I pressed record, I said, I've just started my period. And these are words that I never probably would have said five years ago because that was private women's business here, but this idea of suffering in silence, so. I'm saying it again, because this is called decolonizing trauma, and the one thing I unsubscribe from is this notion of do or die. We're not doing that today. So when we need to press pause, let's go . Let's come off. Yes. And it's also, you know, it's, it's the notion that the body is separate from the mind and the body is separate from the wellbeing and that we have to produce and create content. And there's so much ableism that is then interwoven into all of that, which means that we then subjugate our bodies to the same oppression that we're experiencing in the. External world and then I become the oppressor and the oppressed right towards my own body like Yes, yeah, why when we can not Yeah, knowing that there are times that many of our ancestors may not have had that choice and that for them overriding and subjugating themselves and their bodies was how they survived. And I don't need to do that in this moment with you. Yeah. So can I be cheeky and ask, what made you still come on? Um, What made you still come on here and not send a message and say, Yemi, can we do this another time? Because I knew that I could just be here in this space holding my belly and showing it to you. And that me, me turning it up, turning up at 30 percent or 50 percent or 70 percent is more than enough. That the relational space that we hold between us is actually more than enough. Yeah. Thank you. If you know how many times in the most beautiful way I have blasphemed your name in spaces, and I say blasphemed because I'm sure someone would say, does Linda know that you are saying her name so often? Um, And I do in the most beautiful way because you, you showed me, and, and there is something, I know there is a humility in you that probably can only take so much of this, I don't feel you need to respond, maybe just receive, is you are one of, if not the first teacher that just embodies through her voice, her tempo, actions, pauses, eyeballing through the camera on the screen that I've ever witnessed. And I've heard people tell me when they hear me speak, they haven't been able to find the word, but I've now been able to use words. There's, there's a beautiful potency in, In what you do. And it was just, it, it's the gift that keeps giving. Um, this, this will be short. My podcasts are not long. Um, also because I know the topic can be heavy. Um, but I just, yeah, someone just said that that's important. I let you know that. I'm forever grateful for your work and for, for speaking. So. What's led you to the work you do as a mental health practitioner, you know, somatic practitioner? And please, if there's any other way you describe yourself, but in the space you're at now, how could you describe what's brought you into the line of work you're doing? For me, being a trauma therapist is a by product of my own healing journey. and my own healing journey is something that I actually never wished to do. I just wanted the pain to go away. And in the process I learned how to approach that pain. Yeah, I learned how to approach pain and I learned that not all the pain that I carry is mine and yet somehow I carry and therefore I can. I can choose, right? I can choose to orient towards in bite sized pieces. I can choose to, bloated belly brain fog, bloated belly brain fog. You know, I can, I can choose to take that on as, as something that, that I can choose, right? And so there's a privilege that comes with, with The privilege, I don't know, I can't find the words for it. There are privileges that come with assimilation. Yeah. And there are privileges that come with having been assimilated. Just like there's a grief that comes with it as well. And so how can I choose to, to walk that edge between both of those? while feeling engulfed at times in such a way that allows me to, that allows me to be that which lives at the cracks and at the edges of emergence, of that which emerges when I dare to step into the crevasses from which gives rise something that is entirely me. And you, and all of us, yeah, because it's at these edges that we then can become subsumed into the living life force energy of this earth, I believe. And Resmus Manningham says it's beautiful. says this beautifully that resource is primary and trauma is secondary and trauma is that which disconnects us from resource and what if it's the cracks and the margins that allow us to most get connected to that primary resource. You know when you accept the cracks, right? Yes, yes, as within so without. Yeah. But what is our resistance to accepting the cracks? Because you just said, as you started off, I mean, I heard, I know you would have said something, but I heard a reluctance. So I wanted to, to look at it. So in your journey and, and obviously working with others, what makes us resistance, resistant to acknowledging and accepting the cracks? Yeah. I mean, there's a huge number of reasons we don't want to accept the cracks, that we cover ourselves with foundation and crack filler and, you know, get all the wrinkles away. And for some of us, that's how we learn to survive, right? Is by covering up the cracks, covering up the wrinkles, not letting the flaws be seen, not letting the brokenness be seen, not letting the The searing, aching pain be seen by others and by ourselves. It's all self protection. Yeah. Yeah. And some of us become so good at self protection that we mistake that identity for who we are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And for some of us, we need to self protect real hard under colonialism. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say there's not just in your tone, but there's, there's a reason for empathy for that, that the reason for why we have protected, you know, I can't remember where I've heard it, but sometimes I think I've heard something, the very strategies that you created to survive, you know, in some instances might be holding you back, but you have empathy in the first part because they allowed you to survive. And as you said, especially around colonialism. So I guess I wanted to ask this question. I know this is freezing every now and again, but hopefully you can hear me. You just made mention of colonialism. What do you think, or what are your thoughts on the impact of colonialism on mental health within, I was going to say marginalized communities and or us as a whole, whichever one you feel called to respond to. And that's a big question, but whatever comes through. It makes me actually think about the pervasive messages and narratives that we get given about ourselves, yeah? And if I just pause for a moment to offer a specific example within colonial psychotherapy, um, psychotherapy, psychology, psychiatry, you know, there's a lot of. Emphasis out there about attachment theory, about secure attachment, which hyper emphasizes the dyadic relationship between the primary caregiver, typically the birth parent and the child, and the ways in which that primary imprinting then causes for our relational template to be formed so early on in life that we're so unaware of it. And yet this thing causes us to recreate. these relationships or rather to move through the world with these attachment accommodations and attachment adaptations as our primary ways of relating to others. And while I've experienced a lot of benefit from understanding attachment theory, it did nothing to help me to repair my relationship with my parents. Okay. Yeah. You know, we, my family are former refugees from Vietnam. I was two when we left. We lived in a refugee camp for six months. My little sister was born there. So there was that early attachment disruption and yet we survive what we survive together, which in and of itself is a huge protective factor. And yet the impacts of forced displacement on my family is something that took me a long time to unpack. And I unpacked it within the frame of colonial psychotherapy and psychiatry. And then I started reading and listening to BIPOC writers and authors and psychotherapists and started to play with the idea of what happens to your coherence, your sense of self as a whole being, when you are being offered repeated, devaluing messages by society. Because if It doesn't matter how good enough your parents parenting was, it's not enough to defend against racialized caricatures, devaluing messages, messages that box you into certain narratives. As a refugee, I can only inhabit, I think, probably three narratives. I'm either the the criminal element, or the criminal element. Right, the persons who fucked up their countries and now they've come here to fuck up ours. Right, so that's, yeah, that's one narrative. The other narrative is the invisibilised labour. Right, that grows food. cleans your hotel room, cleans your house, does your nails, does all the service things that you don't want to do, or the model minority. And better still, if you're the invisibilized model minority, who's your surgeon, right, who's your dentist. Yeah. And because I'm always hustling to defend myself, Because, you know, when people meet me, they're trying to see which of these categories I fit into. And when I don't fit into any of those categories, then I'm spending my precious life force energy defending myself, rather than being allowed to define myself. And that distinction there is offered by Dr. Kenneth Hardy, who's a black psychologist in the U. S. He says, we're so busy defending ourselves, we don't get to define ourselves. And so our precious life force energy then becomes used up. Trying to explain to other people what it's like to be me. And yet, here's another, I don't fit into that category. So I now got to explain why I don't fit into that category. Thank you. Yeah. That sounds exhausting. Oh, it is exhausting. And so, you know, and that's just one example, right, of these messages and messaging and the narratives that are told by others. about us. Yeah. That then becomes the dominant narrative that we then internalize, and then we develop our own internalized expectations and value ourselves based upon what other people have told us about ourselves. Yeah. And so Anias Nin actually said that shame are the stories that other people told about you that you believed. Yeah. Haven't heard that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if I'm going to get like real disruptive in this space, you know, it's all motherfucking lies. Yeah. And my black friends are the ones that have helped me to see that it's all motherfucking lies. And yet we believe it because it's the only images that we get about ourselves. It's the only messages we get about ourselves. We look at the people in Congo, and I was watching a, uh, a Congolese activist whose name I've, I neglected to take in and internalize. And this person was saying how the United Nations Food Agency says that the Congo has enough abundance to feed two billion people. But the images that the Congolese get about themselves is people working in mines for, you know, 500 a year in hard labor, totally surrounded by dirt and not getting enough food. And so that's the image, the image that they've internalized about themselves. And it's also the image that the rest of the world has internalized about the Congo. Yeah. Yeah. And how do we restore dignity? How do we restore the birthright of your brilliance and your creativity and your fortitude and your strength and the abundance that you have always had that exists within you and within your ancestors? So Linda, let me ask you this. Yes. If you had friends, and you mentioned black friends who told you that a lot of this was a lie, i. e. the stories that have been told about us that create shame. Why do we not know that inherently? Why do you think we, we don't know that? Is it that, is it indoctrinated? I'm conscious that certain words might have different activation points, but what's the reason why people wouldn't know that to begin with? Because they're so pervasive. Mm. They're so pervasive. I've been living in the US for 15 years now, 15, 20 years. I haven't had a TV since last century, I get that. And I also had a TV prior to that when I was living in Australia. How many images do we see of Aboriginal love? How many images do we see of Asian joy? How many images do we see of us as whole and happy peoples? And then how many images do we see of the stereotype? Yeah. I talk about this idea that some of us don't even know how to dream anymore. Yeah. Or even tap into imagination. Yeah. Um, and I, and I can't, I didn't read that anywhere. It just felt like a download because I was, I was questioning myself and why am I doing this work? And I just got this download of, it's because a lot of us have, have lost that connection with imagination and maybe partly because as you say, what are we seeing on the television? What are we seeing in media? Okay. Bye. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And, you know, dreams are something that you can't do without the help of other people. Right, goals. Goals are like, you know, you just put, you just get real colonial about it. You just put in the project management checklist of the cash flow and the target points that you need to, to hit. Yeah. Very individualistic. Dreams are something you cannot do without the help of other people. And so, um, We who have become disconnected from our communities and our culture and our cultural strengths also forget to dream because we have had that taken away from us or it's become disrupted in our lineages. Um, yeah. What do you think is the role of community on that? What is the role of community? in the process of either healing trauma or remembering, whichever, whichever one you feel more aligned to. Can you ask that again? My belly was doing a flip flop. Listen to the body. I can just see your belly flip flopping. Um, Um, What do you see as the role of community in our process of either healing or remembering, going back to remembering to whatever we have detached from to remember who we are? Yeah. Yeah. I don't believe that we heal in isolation. And there is definitely something about us as collectivist people that we get to a certain point in our healing and we butt up against survivor guilt. And it's the survivor guilt of having moved across classes. It's the survivor guilt of the people that we've left behind, you know, whether it's in another country or whether it's in poverty or whether it's in, um, education, yeah. And so we don't leave our people behind. And so, you know, and I see this in working with BIPOC individuals, is that we get to a certain point in our healing and we're like, hang on, I need to bring more people with me. before I then continue further with my healing. Because I need spaces where I can experience, not just the solidarity, but I need spaces where I need to hear myself being reflected back to me so that we can co liberate, so that we can engage in collective liberation. Mm. In your Because Sorry, go ahead. Oh, um, because it's not satisfying otherwise. Yeah. I feel like every other collective group of words you say, it's enough. And Resmaa Manakim, who I know, I know you've mentioned a few times, and I love and study his work as well. He, he makes reference to nibbling on stuff as opposed to gorging. Yes. And it's the reason why I'm pacing myself. to also invite the listeners to pace themselves as well because there is enough to listen in the 20 odd minutes we've done already for us to just go and nibble and unpack. Yeah. Yes, because we want to be able to digest and metabolize. And when we metabolize, we're actually creating fuel and nourishment and sustenance for a journey. for a marathon. And what happens when there's trauma is we live life as if it's a series of sprints, and we forget how to nourish ourselves because we perhaps have never gotten that, or perhaps we've been in survival mode for that long. And so learning that we can nibble, learning that there'll always be sustenance available, learning that I do have time. to pause, to digest, to metabolize as an alchemical process that then creates fuel. And that then builds trust in ourselves, trust in our ability to nibble, trust that there will always be nibblings around, and trust that there is spaciousness to digest. Mm. The teacher will always, always have something to learn. I love it. Yeah. And it's, it's this trust, right? That. How do I explain this? Okay. Okay, it's about trust. So, as trauma survivors, building a sense of confidence and competence in something, anything, feels good. Building the capacity for agency and willpower feels good. And, when there is commitment, willpower isn't necessary. However, commitment asks us to trust in the natural unfolding of ourselves and of our lives and of the universe. So Linda, this is where I say hammer time and I've got to say who sent you? Because my guides have been playing with me for the past couple of days and just sending people left, right, center from all over the world. And you just dropped that about, well did I hear you right? You, you don't need willpower if there's commitment? Yes. Right. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And in order, yes. And in order to commit, you got to trust. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I'm about to ask a question. I think, you know, it comes from the best of places and we will wrap up. Does the world, does enough of the world know of you, your work and your vibration? And if they don't, what do we need to do? Uh, I don't know. I don't know. I'm, I'm held in, I'm held in divine hands of some sort. And in that I trust. It's very humbling and it's kind of humiliating. Um, and yet it's that hum word, you know, hummus, you know, being close to the earth, the hummus layer, the layer of decay and warmth and fecundity. Yes. Okay. So if we wanted to know more about you and your work, please share with us. you know, what that is, the best place to go. And I will make sure I have your website and any other details and content, but I'd want to hear your, your work. How can we connect more deeply with you? Sure. Head over to my website. It's www. linda tai. com. L I N D A dash T H A I. Uh, there's lots of resources on there. I have a musing section, which is my latest joy, where I just have little three to five minute reads about what it's like to be. be me as I move through the world. But there's musings on war from the perspective of a former child refugee, there's musings on my parents, there's musings on psychedelics, there's musings on um, on home and homeland and what that means for someone who was displaced as a child. Yeah, um, and there's courses on there. There's links to lots of free stuff on YouTube. And what else is on there? What else is coming up? I don't know. I've got like bloated belly brain fog. And I invite you, if it feels okay with you, to sign up for my monthly newsletter. Uh, you only get one mail a month, sometimes two, but that's kind of rare. And in it I just tell you what I've been up to, and there's photos of me being happy in nature, and then there's some courses that I'm doing and other things, but really I like to have a relational feel to the newsletter rather than a, uh, a nuts and bolts factoid about The things of mine you can buy, like I, I just don't do that. I can attest to that. Whenever I get something company's got limited time, like, okay, listen, and you've just kind of given me once again, and another blueprint that I would, I would love to, to emulate on newsletters. I haven't sent a newsletter out to my audience for three years. I'm the other end of the spectrum. I'm so worried about bombarding people that I just go silent. So I need to find a gray area. Um, Linda, I want to thank you. Once a month! Once a month, yeah! That's right. And part of the other reason is I remember saying to someone is that I was one of those people that would go and meet people and start off by saying Sorry. So I always said, sorry, sorry, was my introduction to hello. I know. And doing the work made me realize that I was saying, sorry for my existence. Sorry for even coming into this space and taking up. So the work continues. It's, it's deep. I know. I know. But as you just said, Yeah, I mean, once a month is really okay to let people know, Hey, I'm here and this, this is what's going on. And I invite you to, I don't know, have joy with me. Yes. Yes. You felt that, didn't you? You felt that. Oh, um, you know, the old part of the brain who, who is in the world says this wasn't long enough, but it was more than enough. Um, I, I could always do more and, and hope that we continue to be in each other's orbit and just want to say thank you very much and give you any last words you want to share with the listeners, um, or yourself. Ah, joy is an act of resistance and revolution and rest is a statement that your body belongs to you. Thank you so much, Linda. I know you might, some might think this is over the top, but as I always say to the listeners at the end, I love you, and Linda, I love you for being you. Thank you so much. Yemi, I love you too.