Ep. 14 Embracing the Journey of Healing: Trust, Counsel, and Spiritual Parenting

Are you ready to challenge your perceptions and see counseling in a new light? We're here to dismantle preconceived notions and expose the true value of trust, transparency, and spiritual parenting within the realm of counseling. Building trust is no simple task, especially when it comes to sharing personal struggles and seeking guidance. Yet, we recount our own transformative experiences to express just how crucial trust is in the journey of healing and spiritual growth.

Have you ever considered the role spiritual parents play in nurturing faith? We certainly have, and we're excited to share our insights! We shed light on our spiritual parents - Pastors Ed and Helen - who have been instrumental in enhancing our resilience during challenging times. Moreover, we underscore the importance of spiritual mentors in guiding younger believers. Moving on, we grapple with the stigmas attached to counseling, especially within the black community. With an open mind, let's explore why these stereotypes need to be broken and how counseling can be as critical as physical healthcare for maintaining our mental well-being.

Finally, we turn our attention to the church's role in addressing mental health. Drawing from my experiences in the military and my work with PTSD and addiction patients, we advocate for creating a safe space within the church for individuals dealing with mental health issues. Join us as we accentuate how important it is for the church to provide a supportive environment for those struggling. Our hope is that our conversation inspires you to approach counseling from a completely new perspective, realizing the monumental role it plays in both mental health and spiritual growth. Let's begin this enlightening journey together.

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:45

So, uh, but that's, that's just real talk, man, um, but I feel like in counseling, uh, in pastoral care, all of that, uh, there's how to be trusted. Yes, has to be trust. Yes, because we can't do what we do if you don't trust us. Come on.

Speaker 1: 1:02

Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. What's, what's some ways that you and Tina has cultivated that trust in clients, or help cultivate that trust to build a community of people, to love people back to life.

Speaker 2: 1:20

Well, it goes to it's. It's a lot of it. A lot of it is done outside the counseling session. First, they want to see if you are a man or woman of your word.

Speaker 2: 1:30

If you, if you the same person, the same dude out there yeah, if you the same dude, uh, or, or, you know, they they want to make sure that what you say is what you say, you know, and, um, they want to also make sure that what they, they come to you in confidence, come on, that's the whole church or neighborhood, don't know what's going on.

Speaker 2: 1:51

That's big, you know, uh, and with our practice, you know, our practice is housed at our church, so, and we, we have a lot of church members that we see, so when we see them on Sunday morning it has to be what we see. You know, we can't see them as what we saw them in the counseling session. See, you say what I'm saying? Yes, so, uh, you know. So that's that's important, man, you know where that's an arbitrary having a meeting after the meeting, that's an art.

Speaker 2: 2:17

Oh yeah, Well, it's, it's, it takes, it takes intentionality and discipline Obra obra, because there's some heavy stuff that we deal with, yeah, and you got to be prepared for it, you know, uh, but prepared. Preparation is to prayer. Yep, do fasting.

Speaker 1: 2:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:33

Uh, all of that man, you know that you don't hear a lot about, you know and uh, but also too, I feel like people saw us at our lowest, hmm.

Speaker 1: 2:43

Come on, you know, they saw us at breaking point, that's important.

Speaker 2: 2:47

Uh, they saw us where you all, we felt like all hope was lost. Yeah, and, and God has, has gripped us and pulled us up by the bridges and like, look, you can do this. Yeah, so they see us walk. They saw us walk through that that testimony. Yeah, yeah, so now that it's like, okay, they did a real deal. Yeah, you know they what they saying, they that's, that's, that's real, that's real talk.

Speaker 1: 3:10

And that's important because I think that helps break. We've been talking about the stigma of counseling. I think that helps break that stigma where, as sometimes you go into counseling thinking the person that's speaking to you is better than you, ah, and you thinking the person that's helping you has never been through anything. Come on, man.

Speaker 2: 3:27

You think I'm going to tell you like this I don't want nobody counseling me. They ain't been through nothing. Boy, can I tell you that if you ain't never walked through nothing, if you ain't never been broke, if you you know what I'm saying If you ain't ever dealt with some stuff anger, all that you ain't never dealt with, how you're going to be able to kind of counsel me, dude.

Speaker 1: 3:46

I remember telling my wife we was going through some stuff and we were like who we going to go to. I said, look, I ain't trying to be funny, but I want our marriage to work. Mm-hmm, but I refuse to let someone speak into our marriage that ain't been married for a minimum of 10 years, dude, you better quit playing with me.

Speaker 1: 4:10

Or ain't even been married at all, because, like you, can't come telling me what you think a marriage should be like when you ain't never experienced the marriage, or you've been married two years and you're an expert now. Oh Lord, have mercy.

Speaker 1: 4:23

We, you know so I'm. So, my wife and I, we were trying to get through this thing and we were like we want some seasoned and we don't want just people who've been married a long time but sleeping separate bedrooms. We want some people that's been married and still like each other I, you know, cause you could still love someone that don't like them. But I want someone to speak into my life and speak into my marriage and counsel us that that that has been through some stuff, that has has weathered the storms and that can tell us it's going to be okay, because they know they don't. Just, I believe, by faith, that y'all go no, no, no. We know God has brought us through some stuff and he will bring y'all through your stuff too. And, man, I'm going to shout out. I feel it in my spirit, I'm going to shout out pastor, ed and pastor.

Speaker 2: 5:12

Helen. Oh yes, what out of doubt.

Speaker 1: 5:14

They've been our spiritual parents for years and they've been pouring into it. My wife was counseled by Ms Helen and I'm not counseled disciple, disciple by her, disciple by her. Yeah, I remember when I was on staff at a church that we were all going to together and I was, I had a pornography addiction and I had to Confess to the elders and the pastors Dude, that was the most uncomfortable thing I ever did in my life and I'm sparing it all because I'm like, look, it is what it is, yeah, and my wife is sitting right there next to me so she'd be like, alright, nope, tell us some more, got you left some stuff out, but nope, you, you, you being too high level, I need that, I need you to get in the weeds with it, let's get free. So I always had my wife with me when I'm, when I'm doing stuff like that, because she, she, come on you being too generous oh yeah

Speaker 1: 6:19

that ain't really. And so I was sharing it all and I got in a nitty gritty man and I felt like nothing. I felt like nothing and Helen came to me and was like, harold, it's better for you to get this out now so that when God start really using you, he ain't got no ammo, enemy ain't got no ammo. Yeah, the thing that changed the way that I saw them and and why I trusted them a hundred percent, undoubt, is because they knew everything and Still spoke life over us and they said here, we know God's gonna use you and we know the things that God has in store for you. Don't let this diminish. Yeah, who you are meant to be. Yeah, because we see that person. Oh yeah, we don't see this person that you shameful and embarrassed and you know. And I'm like I Told my wife I said I Can rock with that.

Speaker 1: 7:17

They the real deal they the real deal, that a real deal. And they and they weren't afraid to say, look here, I look, when me and Helen was first, you know, look, or you know me, and a was, and they were just and they will be vulnerable, yeah, and they would be transparent, yeah, but they never seen us differently and I was like that's what I'm talking about. I want that type of person, or a couple, to pour into me. And so when people come to me or people come to you guys, they like look, man, we've witnessed the real deal with them and we know they gonna keep it 100. Keep it 100, man, you have to. We gonna keep it focused on the Lord, but we ain't sugarcoating it because we here to help. We have to.

Speaker 1: 8:05

And I love that when because they didn't call it out some stuff for us.

Speaker 2: 8:09

They didn't call us out.

Speaker 1: 8:10

Listen. They ain't been in our house they didn't listen, but when people have been through some stuff and you've seen them get through, that's helpful.

Speaker 2: 8:23

Oh, it's great. It's great and I said it again that they are the real deal. Pasha is the real. Ms Helen is the real deal. There was a situation that I was going through when we lost our son, aaron Aaron.

Speaker 1: 8:37

Jr.

Speaker 2: 8:38

And I was in a crossroad hell. I was like man. I don't, I'm like man. I've been in ministry it was over like 20 some of my years and I was like, oh, why, man? What's going on? And the Lord said call Pasha call Pasha.

Speaker 2: 8:53

I said look, this is where I'm at, this is where my headspace is. I'm trying to figure things out. Yay or nay, turn right, left. I said, Pasha, I need you to agree on some things. Take it to prayer. He did just that. He said but I'm gonna tell you this ain't going nowhere. Just between me and you and the Lord, he ain't going nowhere. And he did just that. He took it to the Lord, but not only that man. He will follow up how you doing, Are you good? That part? You know. He know how much Aaron Jr meant to me. He was always, always hitting me up, and so people like that they just, they learn, they grow on you and they be part of you. I look at them honestly to me, as a spiritual mom and dad. Come on.

Speaker 1: 9:47

I'm a grown dude.

Speaker 2: 9:48

I'm a grown but I look at them as spiritual parents, man, because they know they're wise, they they real.

Speaker 1: 9:58

Listen.

Speaker 2: 9:59

I don't want, I don't want. I'm gonna keep it one hundred. You know me, I don't like fake folk, man fake folk, I'm like dude, I mean, I mean, it just wastes time, it's you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 10:11

That's the best way to put it. It's a waste of time.

Speaker 2: 10:13

It's a waste of time when you fake you phony and all this stuff. You know, but you know what you're gonna get when you get past the edge. Ms Helen, you know that, you know. So it's. They are a blessing to the body of Christ. Yeah, and my prayer is God, raise up more. That's a good prayer. Spiritual parents, that's a good prayer. That's a good prayer.

Speaker 1: 10:34

Because we, we need so much man on every level, every level man, I would say. I would go so far as to say there wouldn't be so many per not per prominent people in the body of Christ falling If there were spiritual parents in those areas to lead and guide.

Speaker 2: 10:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's 100% man. You know how God does. He put spiritual parents in your life and those spiritual parents are pouring into you and you raising up spiritual sons and daughters underneath you. Come on, you know, cause we've got some. I got one in the room, spiritual son. You know where I like. You know he know like. He come in like look bruh this is this and he respects that. Yes, you know and.

Speaker 2: 11:29

I respect him and it's a two way street, so I enjoy instead of us being so. Title mindset Come on.

Speaker 1: 11:41

Yeah, come on. I think that's part of the stigma.

Speaker 2: 11:44

It's title mindset.

Speaker 1: 11:45

Part of the stigma is that you want someone with a title to give you that counselor to give you that because I've spoken to so and so. It's like, come on, man, the Lord using them, the Lord using them.

Speaker 2: 11:58

Ha ha ha ha Bro, I'm telling you, man, the Lord, to use my little 12 year old daughter to speak to me before Come on and she ain't been to college the first. But I tell you what she was. She was, you know, and spoke and some things triggered in my heart. I'm like, oh okay, that's God, yep.

Speaker 1: 12:14

And we got to be open to that.

Speaker 1: 12:15

We have to be open and I think, I think you know, breaking that stigma. If I could say anything to break, you know, we wrap up this episode, man, but if I could say anything to break the stigma of people in the church getting counseling, but also, more importantly, man, people in the black community, man, we really have so much to unpackage generationally, heritishly, you know, you know, ancestral stuff that needs to be unpackaged in a very real way, not, you know, and I think the dangers, I think a lot of times you know a lot of Christians shy away from counseling is because of the humanistic aspect that the world has about counseling, you know. But what I love about biblical Christian counseling is that we have a biblical worldview and we have a spiritual alertness to what is going on and there's things that the world is trying to address psychologically with the void of the spirit. But if we would just give the Lord a chance through the spirit of counsel, because a lot of times everybody wanna be solo, everything. I wanna be counseled by God and God alone. God's gonna tell me everything, he's gonna reveal everything and I'm gonna get healed through his voice and his voice alone.

Speaker 1: 13:46

And I always like somebody was telling me. It was like man, I don't need no pastor, I don't need no counselor, I don't need to go to no church because I'm the church you know and I'm like to a degree you're right, you know, to a degree you're right, I said, but God never stops speaking. So tell me why you can't hear him. Because, yes, god can heal you, yes, god can counsel you, but if you ain't hearing him or if you're not positioning yourself to have an alertness and a sensitivity to him, then you need help, you need help. You need help. And some people are so traumatized that they calloused to the voice of God Ooh, and that spiritual counselor will be that voice until you healed enough to hear it for yourself. And that's my prayer Don't depend on me, don't depend on anyone else.

Speaker 1: 14:38

We're not. I'm not promoting mental health coaching and counseling and therapy so that you can depend on another person, because I don't wanna depend on them. No, no, I'm not saying that you should depend on them. I'm saying that allow God to use them until you're healed enough to hear clearer for yourself. Because I've helped some. I've talked to some brothers man, that's just my friends and they this is what the Lord telling me. I'm like, look, I'm gonna be 100 with you, brother. That ain't God you hearing filtering that through some other stuff? And let's look at the word. Based off what you just told me, that don't line up with scripture, brother. So is God really telling you that? Or is you filtering through that, through some people that didn't hurt your feelings and you just you know. And so my recommendation is the stigma is that you're not coming to a person as much as you're coming to the Lord and allowing him to work through that person to get you to a place where you could walk freer, and I love that about that.

Speaker 2: 15:38

Oh, it's huge man and you gotta think about it like this, Harold, I mean, you break your arm, you go see a doctor. You gotta too, think you go see a dentist. Most people you wanna get married go to church house. You find a pastor. I look at it like this they're a therapist. You know, Cause you know, our minds get sick, our brains get sick.

Speaker 1: 15:59

Dude, that's a real thing. They get sick man, that's a real thing.

Speaker 2: 16:03

It's an organ. They get sick. So you need a therapist to walk you through that, a counselor, you need somebody, an expert, that can walk you through that. And I feel like, as African-Americans, we allow things, we deal with it in a different way at times, because it's always been that way. Mom and daddy dealt with it like this this is how it goes in our house and the stays in our house, sort of to speak. So we gotta get outside of that and as Tina and I, we made that in East of Love. This, you know, our skin is a different color for some folk.

Speaker 2: 16:42

But this is where we how the God has trained us our mindset to pull some folk back out of the neighborhood. Go back, look, y'all need help. We need help. Come on, we're gonna help you through this and move forward in that process. But one last thing that I would like to say about counseling is this, harold is with counseling, you gotta come at it with a different mindset. You know, and cause you talked about that, you know having that dogmatic mindset about some things, but I love about Inspire Hope counseling is this that we see community clients, clients that don't know the Lord, come on, okay, so we don't shut the door just because you're not a believer, cause they hands get sick too.

Speaker 1: 17:27

Come on somebody, just cause you don't know, jesus don't mean your brain don't get sick.

Speaker 2: 17:31

Yes, yes, so, cause I could sense you know, so this is how we do it. You know we have community clients, clients, that's you know that outside the church house they don't know anything about the Lord, so we let them know. This is what we do. Yep, okay, this is what we do, and it's and it's this is an option for you. Yes, okay, cause you, you know, and, and 95% of the time they good with it. They like look, I'm sitting here, let's go.

Speaker 1: 17:58

I will tell you what dude in a secular capacity I've been in the military cause most of my experiences in the military, you know, dealing with people with PTSD and addictions and stuff like that, and me not even a chaplain, just a leader.

Speaker 1: 18:12

But they know how I move, they know that I'm a believer, they know that I'm a pastor and they like, look, man, I need you to pray about this, I need you to help with this, and I'm like, look, this is my worldview, this is how I see it and I'm good with it at the schools dude, there was one week I prayed for three staff members who are not saved, who came to me telling me what they were dealing with and asked me for my counsel and for my prayers Not mine is mine, but you know and they knew who I was and I knew they wouldn't say, but they, like he got something that I know will help me in this situation and I'm willing to let him do it.

Speaker 2: 18:58

Bro, they watching you, they watching, they watching Matter of fact, they watching us, they watching everybody, they watching the church.

Speaker 2: 19:05

They watching everything you know and we could give ourself a bad name. That's right If we can get careful, yeah. So we gotta make sure that we are doing the right things the right way being a good witness. Being a good witness because I don't want to mind witness, to be all jacked up and then I was supposed to talk to you because you was dealing with you're not a Christian, but just because you didn't see me kicking it at the bar last night. But I was on Sunday morning preaching, like you know, like no other they looking like hold on bro. No, we can't do that man. So you know we, you know, and I'm gonna tell you, church folk get their own self a bad rap. Come on, we do. And we got a man up, woman up, to like look, that's not what it's all about. We gotta do this thing the right way.

Speaker 1: 19:48

And it's powerful. It's a powerful witness man because, especially in the mental health space man, when people are not doing well, they look to us for safety. Yeah, and we gotta be able to provide that and not be an unsafe space for people. So I love that man, I appreciate that, I appreciate you guys breaking down that stigma, breaking down those barriers and those walls, for the work that you guys are doing, both in the community and in the church, is necessary, is needed, and God is just beginning. He's just beginning, bro.