Digital Horizons
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Digital Horizons
Every Marketer Should be Focusing on These Three Things
Ready to elevate your digital marketing game with the latest in AI technology? Join us as we welcome Brian Hastings as our new co-host on the Digital Horizons podcast! Together, we unpack 20 years of experience to dissect the top three priorities for marketers today, starting with the dynamic integration of AI tools. We delve into the benefits and challenges of platforms like ChatGPT and Claude, offering you a roadmap to navigate the sea of AI-branded tools flooding the market.
Attribution is more complex than ever, and we tackle this head-on by examining different models to help you understand the true impact of your marketing efforts. Using engaging analogies, we break down the intricacies of consumer behavior across multiple platforms and the challenges in attributing sales to specific touchpoints. We also discuss cutting-edge content creation strategies, emphasizing the need for engaging and on-brand content that cuts through the noise. To cap it all off, we encourage gradual progress in marketing innovation, highlighting the importance of experimentation and continuous improvement. Tune in for actionable tips and insights to keep you ahead in the ever-evolving digital landscape!
The Digital Horizons Podcast is hosted by:
James Walker - Managing Director Walker Hill Digital
Brian Hastings - Managing Director Nous
Trying to work out what touch point along the path that got you the sale is kind of like trying to work out which beer got you drunk. Welcome to the Digital Horizons podcast. I'm your host, James Walker, and today we are going to be changing how we're going to be progressing forward with this podcast. I'm joined with Brian Hastings, who is going to be the co-host of the show going forward. Welcome, Brian.
Speaker 2:Very excited to be here. I thought it was awesome. Last time we did one and I got the bug for it, so happy to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:That's it. And I mean I was thinking that I needed a co-host on the show and just, I guess, to have someone that I can bounce ideas off, and when I was thinking about who I would like to be joining me on this year, obviously the first person I thought of being that we both will run digital marketing agencies both quite sizable agencies and we went to uni together and I guess we've both come through this digital marketing journey over the past, coming on to 20 years which that's scary, saying it, but 20 years of going through it in completely different routes, where I mean I've gone through the, I guess, build-it-yourself model and you've worked in many agencies across the world and learned through that way. I guess build it yourself model and you've worked in many agencies across the world and learned through that way, and so I think we both bring quite a wide variety of experience where that, hopefully, we can pass on some of our experience and knowledge on to marketers that are in our industry and digital marketing space, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I'm really looking forward to using the podcast as another way of helping me keep up to date with news and things that are going on in the industry, as well as sharing some of the conversations we have off camera anyway, the challenges of what skill sets you need in advertising and marketing business, but also just the challenges our clients face, and having conversations about that sort of stuff really excites me and I think co-hosting together we'll get a broad view of the types of marketing challenges and issues and tactics and tips and strategies that pop up across many different platforms and industries and clients.
Speaker 2:So it's going to be really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and even just having an opportunity to be able to talk about the day-to-day of running a digital marketing agency, some of the challenges that we both face, which I think is useful not just for our type of business, but all businesses as well. So I guess any of those business owners that are out there that are listening, we hope we can also provide value in that space as well. Um, so it brings us to our topic today. Um, today we are going to be just chatting a little bit about, I guess, the top five things that we think and what we're seeing our teams and our industries should really be marketed, should really be thinking about at the moment. These are items that where our industry is changing all the time and there's stuff that demands our attention when we're trying to generate performance and get results for our clients, and these are probably the main five areas that we're thinking about at the moment. So, brian, what's the first one we're talking about today?
Speaker 2:Learning AI tools, so not just the AI tools themselves, but what you should learn how to incorporate AI tools into your marketing efforts and into your business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know I mean for us. I have ChatGPT open all the time. I was watching a video last night which is talking more about Claude, so I want to get a bit more familiar with that because I'm hearing that potentially that is actually a better platform than ChatGPT. I don't know what the different pros and cons are, but I want to start exploring at that. But there are so many other tools that are out there and I guess, just being open and willing to incorporate these into your day-to-day learning how they can benefit your role.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I find when I think of a challenge or a thing I want automated, there's probably an AI tool that's being created to do it already, but there's this huge wave of tools that just lean on chat GPT and are rebranded to offer a solution that don't actually do anything different to chat GPT. So wading through the right things and not signing up to pay for something that you could probably get for free is also a bit of a pitfall that I've found. Everything is saying it's got AI incorporated into it now.
Speaker 1:I never know whether to go ahead with it Like I've been getting. Like, as you said, every platform like we use ClickUp and ClickUp's got a pop-up saying, hey, get our access to our AI for just this little extra add-on cost.
Speaker 1:And I'm like I don't know whether I need this or not, but then if I'm going to end up having to pay more for it in the future and it's actually going to be useful, then maybe I should be getting onto it. But you almost got this fear of well, maybe I need to be doing this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what if I'm missing out on it?
Speaker 1:or what if my?
Speaker 2:competitors are using it and I could be way more efficient so yeah it's hard ciphering through or accepting the promise of what some of these tools offer, and does it really deliver?
Speaker 1:I'm saying yes to everything I said.
Speaker 1:Google has their Gemini add-on and we use G Suite for internally and so they've gone. Hey, you can add Gemini onto your account, which adds a little bit extra to the subscription, but I've not used it once. Yes, it's been sitting there and I did the trial and then I was like well, trial's expired, I'll probably just keep using it. And I still don't use it and like it summarizes my emails, but I'm like I don't get huge emails that really need summarizing, and I'm sure that there are ways to use it, but I just don't know if it's that useful yet.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and I think these entry-level tools are a good path in, but just finding the right ones that you're comfortable with using is a good way to get involved with the learning how to interact with AI. But there's ones where I wanted to automate certain actions between a website and email notifications and or automate the editing of a video, for instance, and what it says in the video and what it actually delivers is just nowhere near what it was promising.
Speaker 1:So we're not talking about AI tools as shit right now.
Speaker 2:I guess what we are saying is it's just trying them.
Speaker 1:And so I think that is the main thing is because there are ones that are super useful, like we use Scribe all the time at the moment, which is a really good AI tool for copying processes down. And something that I've noticed because we're currently recruiting for a few roles at the moment is I'm starting to get people talking about it in their resumes. And talking about it in their cover letters is that I'm excited about AI and I'm really trying all these tools and those resumes that I'm reading of that I'm actually probably more likely to talk to them because they are talking about it and it's something that Shows a passion or a drive to learn something new.
Speaker 2:It does.
Speaker 1:Because I think, especially in social media, a lot of people don't want to talk about it because they're like, oh shit, this is just going to replace my job anyway, and so they try and act like it's not a thing where you know, we still use it in terms of content, ideation and stuff like that, but it's not something that people need to be like oh, this doesn't exist. I would be like I use this to help me with how I'm going to be able to do my job.
Speaker 2:Absolutely A bit of a challenge getting my team to get comfortable with using it for ideation and starting a process. There's sort of a habit of switching back to writing it all out yourself, but making people or getting people more comfortable with using it will benefit them in their roles. There's sort of a few categories on where you can integrate or try using AI categories and where you can integrate or try using AI. The text and copy generation. Ideation through things like ChatGPT is one thing, but then there's image and video generation. Video generation is going to be huge.
Speaker 1:I haven't even tried that yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I haven't bothered with it until I've started seeing the new video generated by AIs that's coming out. It's indistinguishable for, say, background shots or tracking shots, and you can create filler shots that you would usually or previously had to pay stock library for. So people getting good and comfortable with that, the prompting to get good quality video and images out is going to be a huge skill, as well as the prompting to get content written in the right tone of voice or get the right answers structured in a way that's useful. So there's the GPTs for language, and then there's those image and video generators. That's Almost now at the point where it's useful for video creative creating ads out of nothing. If you've only got copy and product images, you can start to generate video to support a short Facebook ad, for instance.
Speaker 2:The other area is automation. So you know how can you use AI tools to automate typically pretty manual admin tasks. So trying to find low-risk ones first, maybe not jumping straight into your accounting tools, but where else are you spending time doing manual, repeated tasks? And surely there's an automation platform that you can use that leverages AI to do the job better than it was previously done through basic automations?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then, finally, there's the data and analysis, like drawing insights from your previously disparate data whether it be media campaign results or reports and your customer data, combining all of these metrics together in effectively a data lake and then using AI tools to draw insights and bubble them up to you. That's probably in the harder end, but it's going to start with trying things like GPT prompts and image and video generation, so your confidence builds in what it's capable in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love the screenshot dumping into ChatGPT now because I can, like you, just throw a screenshot in and ask it questions. So I've got so lazy with even using a calculator so I don't use calculator anymore. I'll just be like drop a screenshot in, go. Can you just add this up for me? Yeah, so stuff like that rather than having to type in like five numbers in it's and this plus, plus plus.
Speaker 1:If I've got a number of invoices, I just want to work out what the total is. So I'll just like screenshot it, put it in. Just tell me total. Yeah, so stuff like that, even like, is as dumb as that sounds it's kind of like it just speeds up before it makes things so easy because we want to work out our what was our total media spend for across different platforms, and so I'll just dump in all the tiktok invoices and it'll even the pdf, so you can just drop the PDFs in and go give me the tally of all these different invoices.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's great. Excluding GST, what's the number there? And then it will give you the number, and so just stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a true assistant it is?
Speaker 1:it is, and I've tried using the talking thing Like I've got the desktop app on it. It just doesn't work yet.
Speaker 2:Like I don't know I going to be where it gets to. Yeah, Did you notice? They had a voice option.
Speaker 1:I think the name was Sky and it sounded a lot like Scarlett Johansson from they had asked her, and they initially asked her if they could use her voice, and then she said no and then they did it anyway.
Speaker 2:They did it anyway. Yeah, they used someone that sounded a lot like her and it sort of reminded me of the movie Her.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that's what they were going for, and I imagine that they were like fuck it, we're one of the fastest growing companies in the world.
Speaker 2:Right now, we're just going to do what we want, yeah definitely made me try it, but I really like the dropping screenshots in and I can. I've been using it for Excel prompts but I've been trying to explain what I want. But I think you explain that you drop in the screenshot of what you're trying to do.
Speaker 1:I'll drop in a screenshot of because we've got a lot of data in there and so I'll just go what is the formula, if I want to know what this is, and then it will just tell me and I want to put it in this cell in this sheet, and then it just gives me the whole formula. I just cut and paste and drop it in Stuff like that Gemini would help me, because when I use the Google Suite thing.
Speaker 1:It's in the platform but it still wouldn't do what I wanted it to do. I have to go to ChatGPT, screenshot Google Sheets, and then I get the formula, because Gemini is just not doing it in the way it needs to at this point.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, and I've got high hopes for Microsoft's integration. We use the Microsoft Suite at NowS and it isn't integrated properly yet. But we're using other tools, paying for other tools, like one's called Firefliesai and it's invited to every Microsoft Teams meeting. We have it, transcribes it and then it summarises key points covered. A to-do list who's allocated to that to-do list from a meeting and our team have been using that in as sort of summaries of meetings to send back to the client. We do a quick edit of it, send it back to our clients but also forms a good to-do list for us to tackle and it catches everything. But it's at a cost. Every team member has to have it and if Microsoft introduced something similar to the Teams environment it'd be really good. It's going to be awesome, but it's just how many things do I pay for or sign up for now?
Speaker 1:Keeps adding on. Yeah, but I guess you just got to cut the ones that aren't working at that point.
Speaker 2:Just try them and cut them, and this meeting recording summarizing tool has been so valuable. You don't have to have an extra body in the room, just just typing notes. You can be present in the meeting and talk directly to your client and and um speak in the meeting properly, knowing that it's all being captured. That's so good.
Speaker 1:I'm useless in meetings on my own. Nothing, nothing gets done at the meeting. It's like it didn't happen because I'll walk out of forgot everything I said we were going to do and everything I said we were going to do, and then it doesn't work. So that would be super useful. Yeah, it's been really efficient.
Speaker 1:So enough about AI. I think there's going to be very much a turning topic that we're going to be getting a lot more into in the future, but the next one we've felt that is really important and it's definitely a lot of talk about it at the moment is attribution and how to really know what's working in your campaigns, because previously it used to be a very clear path from someone's seen, clicked on an ad, made a purchase, we know exactly what's happened, we've seen the whole path and we've got all that. That's not the case anymore and it makes it so much harder to actually understand where to invest your marketing dollars into. So I think that's something that people need to be focusing on and understanding a little bit better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely the good old days of attributing every dollar of revenue to one of the paid media channels that you're running. They're coming to a close when we consider privacy, cross-device usage, online and offline interactions with the brand. But it's still important to consider attribution to some of the in-platform media platforms that you're using. You can still do attribution within the Google environment. It's still important to consider how much did we make? What was the return on ad spend in these platforms? But making sure you're considering what the other platforms that you're using are adding or contributing to each sale is really important, but it's really hard.
Speaker 1:It is because, I mean, you don't know Pretty much the path is extended so much more now. So, compared to I viewed something, click purchase. Now there's like a whole bunch of touch points People watching shit on YouTube, they're watching TikToks, they're watching different things before they're actually looking at reviews and different things all throughout this process before they get into the point of actually making that purchase. And so being able to work out what it was that got you through to that point is so difficult.
Speaker 1:And I I heard a saying and it stuck with me for ages, which I feel is a really good and relevant just for us, because we like to drink a lot of beer and stuff. But they were saying that trying to work out what touch point along the path now is kind of trying that got you the sale is kind of like trying to work out which beer got you drunk. Yes, because you know, you know you're drunk, but you don't know how you got there and there's a whole bunch of beers on the table but you don't know which one of them is specifically the one that got you drunk, and so it's kind of like that when you're thinking about all right, well, what's touch point along this thing is the one that they've gone.
Speaker 2:Fuck, yes, I'm going to buy this thing like if we look at the different attribution models with that beer analogy in mind. Last click attribution.
Speaker 1:Yeah, would be. It's the last beer, it's the last day now. All the all the others didn't matter at all, it was just that one yeah, first click attribution would be.
Speaker 2:It was that first one that kicked me off on this snowball ride. 100 linear attribution models would be.
Speaker 1:Every one of them had equal value whether it was a tequila, which is probably actually the real real thing. Like I'd say, there probably is a linear path to getting drunk there, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And then there's the time decay model, which is the first one didn't get me as drunk as the second one but the last one was the most important and tipping me over the edge.
Speaker 1:That's it.
Speaker 2:So there's a few different models, but those models all rely on the tracking being perfectly accurate.
Speaker 1:those models all rely on the tracking being perfectly accurate, yeah, and also the platform's not over-claiming Like. Facebook might be like, yeah, they quickly skimmed past an ad that we saw, but we're claiming that as a sale on our side. But then Google was like yeah, but I got that first click ages ago as well, so we're claiming that. And then you sort of, they're all competing for that attribution.
Speaker 2:So what do you do? Well, there are things you can do. My approach has been to think of it more as what's contributed to the conversion, rather than trying to get perfect 100% attribution of every dollar of revenue to media spend. And when I mean what's contributed, it's looking at everything in your mix at the time that you made that portion of sales Maybe it's over a period of a few weeks and then trying to consider what elements contributed to that conversion Ways. You can test this.
Speaker 2:It's a little less scientific when you're taking offline things into account or untrackable channels, but you can still use geographic-level campaign mixes to test one mix against another and look at the total sales or conversions in one market or one region versus another, with all things being the same. But you get into that realm of potentially looking at things that have or an increase in sales that isn't due to a particular marketing mix. It's just because in some of your product does better. So you've got to make sure you're ruling out those things that are going to increase performance anyway. That's why, sometimes, geographic targeting of a mix and testing it against another geographic target of a different mix and seeing what the total outcome is how did all these things together contribute to an outcome. That's one way of doing it. There's still value in tracking the click attribution or impression to click to conversion within each channel, and they're quite good at focusing on each channel themselves. But yeah, it is going to be a really difficult process to extend that out to absolutely everything you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and definitely just even looking at your actual sales, like looking at the changes that you're making in this month that I spend more on Google, how did that influence my overall sales in your Shopify data? Having a look at all right, well, social. But also sometimes, if you've got a longer buying period just because you've spent less this month, you don't know and maybe you've made a consistent amount of sales and you go all right, cool, Well, I'm happy to continually spend less on, say, Google, because this month it didn't impact my sales. You might find that your buying cycle is 30, 60 days, and so the next month you might see a decline and forget, hey, we dropped our budget a few months ago and not put that together. And you might be like, oh, now Facebook's not happened, is you've messed with your budgets on another platform?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not like-to-like, but now you're attributing it back to all right.
Speaker 1:Well, this is now what's impacting. So I guess really understanding the levers that you're pulling and how they're having an impact on your sales is really important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think little tricks. We use is just notating things in your Google Analytics timeline so that if you did make budget changes or campaign started or stopped or there was a downtime in a particular campaign, notating that in analytics or whatever platform you're using to do this analysis, to make sure you've got the full picture whenever you review last year's data or last month's data.
Speaker 1:Yep, for sure. Next creating content.
Speaker 2:I've also added to that it's creating content and leveraging it. So, yeah, I think it'd be a good one to chat about. It's something that's in the back of minds for a lot of marketers. It can be hard to do well, it can be hard to do in an engaging way. That's still on brand, so we wanted to talk about it. It's very important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that's the reason why we're doing this podcast, right yeah?
Speaker 2:absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's a way of format for I find myself and I think you as well, from the when you're on the podcast with me a few months ago, it's a. It's a really effective, good, easy and I find a really engaging way of being able to sit down and create content in a way that you also getting bulk content out of it. Like, we're going to record this, we're going to clip out a whole bunch of clips for shorts and to talk and Instagram and everything else, but it's just us sitting down having a chat for 45 minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and out of that comes so much content that we can use across all those channels.
Speaker 1:Definitely, and so I guess it's so important for not just businesses, but I even think for your personal brand of just having it as something that you know that you need to be doing. There's so much value in it that you probably don't see the time when you're creating it. That is added to your brand and to your own personal brand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I find in a lot of my conversations with marketers and business owners, there's still the view that you use social channels in a way where you try to get as many likes or followers as you can and then they're your audience to post to as much as you want and everyone who's a part of that audience sees your content. So you can talk about yourself as much as you want, you can promote your own work as much as you want and they'll see it, but that's dead and gone. Posts on Instagram is probably branded posts especially. Maybe 10 to 12% of your thousand followers are probably going to see it. If you think about the effort that goes into a post, if only 120 people are going to see that post, would you have gone to that much effort?
Speaker 2:So the shift has really been into providing good quality, engaging, entertaining, exciting content that's going to break out of your following and enter people's feeds. It's going to hopefully crack through the algorithm a little bit and fall in front of people who are interested in the topic that you're talking about or the problem that you're solving. So we've had to change how we create content. It just can't be boasting sales-driven, branded content anymore. There's different tactics for different markets or business types. For instance, we're in B2B, where we want to connect with marketers and other businesses, so we have to help solve the problems that they're facing rather than just saying how good are we? This is the last campaign we ran. You should hire us.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely, but still value in that piece as well, in that confidence piece. But I think that's a little bit further down the funnel, right.
Speaker 2:So when you're thinking about, you want to be amongst it 100%.
Speaker 1:So you think about all right, well, how can we educate, how can we inform and show that, you know, hopefully improve the lives of other people with what they're able to do in their jobs or within their businesses? But then, when it comes down to, hey look, we need some help with this, need some help with this. Who's the right guys or who's the right team that are going to be able to help us with this? Here's some confidence, All right. Well, these are the kinds of results that we've got for other people. And so you've sort of got that mix of your content and working out.
Speaker 1:I saw something about people talking about content. Pillars are dead and I mean, I don't do a lot in the organic social space. We've got the team that does that, but that's something that from the YouTube or whatever it was I was watching, I was just talking about. You just need different areas that you're showing expertise on. So it might be your personal side of things of yourself a bit more around your business side of things. Show your expertise, show some results, but show different things, not so much content pillars, but more just different sides of yourself. And what is your day-to-day like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, different themes rather than just the same stuff again and again, and again.
Speaker 2:That's it. Maybe we need to talk about. You know, this is what we're doing for our content generation, but in different industries it's pretty difficult. For instance, if you're in banking and financial institutions, what you've got to offer doesn't always have a good or engaging or exciting content alignment. It's difficult to produce content for that. So you've got to really delve into what are the things your customer is looking to do or solve that your product is a part of, but without focusing too much on just your product For instance, bank loans, home loans, things like that. You focus on the lifestyle and what you want to try to achieve in your life, rather than just the rate or the technical product that you've got to offer. So you've got to kind of step back from what you've got to offer and think about your customer and what they're looking to do and achieve, and try to show your alignment to their needs and interests and that you're passionate about what you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I also think that and this is something that I sort of struggle with no topic is too simple, like I think that a lot of the times I'd be thinking about different ideas, about stuff we can talk about.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, that just seems too basic because we do it every day, and so we're thinking about stuff that's like, oh, that's a really simple or basic topic. But for a lot of people that aren't in our industry and doing it every single day and doing it at a level and the amount of years we've been doing it, these are actually really valuable pieces of content, and so you could do something that you would consider just almost an admin task for a marketer. But to the person who hasn't done this a million times, that to them is like a skill that they're gaining just from learning a little bit of information. So I think, no matter what industry you're in, if you really dumb it down and go all right, cool, what are the basics that people could be learning about? That's going to give you a whole range of topics that maybe you learned in the initial stages when you were doing your job, that you were offering value to people with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really good point, and I've always felt a bit shy about talking about the basic stuff, thinking people will be like oh that's obvious, brian, or why you know other marketers listening and going. We dealt with that years ago. Everyone knows that. But the reality is these questions do keep popping up that we're talking about. They do keep bubbling up and we keep having to recover it with other people, but things are changing so much that you have to keep talking about these things and keep solving them.
Speaker 1:I guess, in knowing your audience as well I mean Steph from our team she created a piece of content and she got a negative comment on this thing, something like oh, this created a piece of content and she got a negative comment on there saying something like oh, this is some basic shit, like what are you doing?
Speaker 1:you're not an expert or whatever, but she's talking to her audience. She's not talking to experienced 10-year level marketers. She's talking to people who need marketing advice to help with their small business. And so I guess that that person who thought that they were being really smart about, hey, adding some negative content, like a negative comment to her, it was more them that looked stupid because they're not the audience that the bulk of what this content is aimed for anyway. So I think it's knowing who is your audience and talking to it properly, yeah absolutely and being confident that you're solving a problem for a lot of people.
Speaker 2:Yes, the experts will obviously know the answer, and if they can't see that they're not the right audience, then they can go on to the next piece of content.
Speaker 1:And as long as you know your shit, I mean, you don't want to be talking about stuff. And then experts are calling you and going well, this is just wrong, that's a different thing. But if you're just being called out for going, this is some basic stuff.
Speaker 2:I mean, that was the point of the content Absolutely, and I If it is going to be a format like this, a podcast, if it's going to be different formats like short form videos or walkthroughs or explainers of how your product works, being really excited about it and really passionate about it does help. But consistency is key, not just trying to do it once. Do consistent shoots or something like that. You're going to have to get everyone on board with the fact that this is going to have to happen for a long time and the value won't be immediately visible, which brings us onto the last point. If you're going to make good quality content, you don't have to wait for it to organically be captured and take it up. It's a pay-to-play environment. Pay to reach the right audience that wouldn't otherwise see it. Find the best performing organic content that's delivered engagement and a conversation underneath it. Break that down into multiple types of ads and then push that through your ad platforms. It's a great way of generating ad content.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I look what you said before about consistency is key and that is what this podcast is known for consistency, because I said weekly and it has never been weekly. But going forward, as of this episode, that is what we're doing, so we are going to be consistently on the week. I think we even are aiming to be doing it twice a week at this point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't commit to that just yet. Yeah, we're going to do it weekly at least.
Speaker 1:Minimum once a week. So I think we jumped into saying we're going to do five points here, but we're already at the 30 minute mark and we're sort of hoping to wrap this up in about 30 minutes. We're hoping this could be something that's sort of able for people to be able to listen to it on their way to work or at the gym or whatever else, and not get halfway through the episode and then not get it finished. So we'll probably cut it here. Brian, do you have anything else to say on any of these points that we've run through before we wrap it up?
Speaker 2:No other than it'll feel like you don't know what you're doing in either attribution or using AI tools, or even starting the content creation journey. But every little step you take into it, it gets easier and easier. You learn a little bit more. No one's going to be perfect at the beginning of any of these points, and that's the way we, as agency owners, have had to do it. We just edge into it ourselves, we try it bit by bit, and then you get better and better. You uncover more, you find better tools, you find better approaches and what works for you. So don't be shy. Just give it a go at each one of these steps and you'll be surprised how far you come in a couple of weeks or months of trying some of these things.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, thank you everybody for listening. We're really excited about the new direction of the podcast. I'm really happy to have Brian co-hosting with me and we'll be definitely back this time next week, whatever time that is that this gets released, we promise. Thank you, bye, cheers Thank you.