The Acceleration of Society: Less Free Time, More Burnout with Pleasure Allen

In this eye-opening episode with Pleasure Allen, VP of Human Resources at Broker's International, we delve into the societal shift towards relentless busyness and its profound impacts on our free time, work quality, and overall well-being. Join us as we dissect the key historical and contemporary milestones — from rapid technological advancements to the pressures of a global pandemic — that have led us to our current state of 'always-on' culture. We confront the hard-hitting research that paints a concerning picture of our shrinking leisure time and its ripple effects, like increased stress and burnout. Tune in for a transformative journey towards Balance, Not Burnout. 

Website: ⁠Mark Williams
Social: ⁠LinkedIn
Check out Mark's Book: ⁠Lead, Don't Manage: 12 Lessons in Creating a Leadership Culture Based on Core Values
Speaking Engagements: ⁠Book Mark

Transcript

Mark Williams  0:07  
You're listening to Balance, Not Burnout, a podcast helping leaders rethink the speed of their business. And I'm your host, Mark Williams. Join me as I explore the power of a more intentional, balanced approach to leadership. Thanks for listening.

Welcome to Balance, Not Burnout. And today I have a wonderful, I was about to say Pleasure, and I almost gave it away. We have a wonderful guest today. Please welcome Pleasure Allen. Pleasure Allen is VP of Human Resources at Broker's International. And Pleasure has over 20 years of experience in human resources. So Pleasure, welcome to the show. All right.

Pleasure Allen  0:46  
Thank you so much. Glad to be here.

Mark Williams  0:48  
Why don't you share with us in a brief minute or two, a little bit of your background and what you've done and the positions maybe that you've had in HR?

Pleasure Allen  0:56  
Sure, happy to do that. So as you noted, Mark, currently working at Brokers International located in Urbandale, Iowa. I've been in the HR discipline for the majority of my career, I've started in the compliance side of human resources and have operated in every function of HR. So I love the discipline. I love people. And so I think that makes me a great individual to work in this space. My favorite portion of the HR discipline is employee relations. And I know Mark, you know that most people say why the heck do you love that portion? And I think it's because you see people evolve, develop and change. So I love this space. And I'm excited to be here with you today.

Mark Williams  1:40  
And we're super glad to have you. And that was a wonderful lead in to exactly what we talked about, in balance, not burnout. In your mind over the last 20 years, when did things start to speed up?

Pleasure Allen  1:54  
That is such a big, rich question mark. I think things really started to speed up as technology evolves. I personally remember, in 2000, when computers were changing, and transitioning and technology was, you know, the only way to communicate and emails were, you know, being leveraged differently. And then I got an iPhone. And I remember the capabilities of that. And so I think technology has really advanced us around our perception of needing to be connected and busy. For sure.

Mark Williams  2:31  
100% agree, I'll even take texting as a prime example. 20 years ago, had you wanted to reach me, you had essentially two forms, you would either call me and leave me a voicemail message or you sent me an email. Yes. I could limit my exposure to that by being in the office or not being in the office or working hours and respond to your email via working hours. Now, it seems the norm is if you want to get a hold of me. You usually don't call me rarely will people email me they'll send me a text. Yeah, I'm assuming that's true for you as well.

Pleasure Allen  3:07  
Absolutely. It's so true. I don't know if you recall, Mark, when you stop having maybe a home phone, in your in your house, right? I remember one time sitting in my living room and my mother text me and I'm like, my phone has not rung and my husband and I made a conscious decision of do we even use this nobody calls they are texting first and then following up. So I absolutely agree and relate to that.

Mark Williams  3:35  
I think one of the biggest challenges I have in management is the expectation that our we're giving our employees with respect to communicating to our customers, and specifically around technology is a great example. I know we have a bunch of employees over 15 that make outbound dials to our customers, they also receive inbound dials to our customers, and many of them have given out their cell phone numbers so that they can offer the best possible service to their customer. I applaud that. The challenge I would imagine from an HR perspective is what if they work more than they should? And how to and how do we set that example? How do we how do we give them the guardrails to, to balance that work? The work life balance? When should they reply when shouldn't? So from an HR simply HR perspective? I'd love to hear your thoughts as to when should our employees really be on the clock versus not on the clock? And what does that mean?

Pleasure Allen  4:28  
Yeah, you know, I think we have to start teaching our populations in work life balance, you know, and Mark, you have a phrase that you coined that I love you say, you know, I don't live to work, I work to live. And so what does that really mean? And so I think, for businesses we're giving on our cell phone number, we're doing more of that one because the expectations of the client or the customer have changed. Right? We have this instantaneous expectation right? No one wants to wait for food anymore. I mean, I am irritated Did Mark if I have to wait in line for food? It's like, can't you just know that I don't want that and want this and get it to me quickly. So I think from a from an HR perspective, I think it's important for companies to have really clear, you know, what's really clear about the culture that matters most. And I think you have to make sure that you give your employees permission to have a life outside of work. And while we have a high expectation, to deliver strong service to our stakeholders, that shouldn't be at the risk of not caring for yourself. And so one thing I think that we do is what matters most to that individual and protecting that time, right? Is it that I don't want to work on the weekend, so I want to balance better during the week, or, you know, I need to make sure that I stay within these parameters from a schedule perspective. So I think workwise what's the culture, we have to be honest about the culture, we have to really talk about what's truly expected and and staffing and sourcing to make sure that people can support that structure. That's a part of our challenge, I think is we have fewer support structures in place. So people feel like they have to always be on versus disconnecting.

Mark Williams  6:08  
Sure. And from a pure legal perspective, I have to be careful asking certain, especially exempt and non exempt employees, there really is a line as to, let's say, My expectation was that they answered calls past an eight hour workday. If as president of the company, I were to say, I want immediate response from a customer at any time they reach out to an employee of brokers International. But I have to be really careful with that. So so there are laws about abusing that. And how do we focus on making sure we're doing the right thing? From a legal perspective?

Pleasure Allen  6:44  
Absolutely. Mark, I think it's important that we recall or remember in a business that we do have those FLSA guidelines that we need to follow. So what does that mean to the standard person, right, exempt and non exempt? And what can your business support and afford as it relates to overtime? First of all, being very clear up front with your staff and team members on we can afford that you do this amount of hours a month being very clear about when you see them online, hey, I need to make sure that you're tracking your time. So leaders need to be engaged and understanding what their staff is working. One. One pitfall I would say mark that businesses have is that they want to treat hourly employees like exempt employees. And we cannot do that. And so we have to actually create those parameters and guardrails and be specific and follow those. I have seen in cultures where hourly professionals operate as exempt and risk can happen there where later they're leaving the company, Mark, they've given their notice, and they're mad at you that you did not counteroffer them and offer them a million more dollars to stay. And then all of a sudden, here they are with this list of hours that, hey, this is what I worked, and I did not get paid for it. I think another solution can be that you have where it's almost a flex time. So creating a policy to say, hey, Pleasure, I know that you have worked hard for us. And so in that same pay period, I'm going to give you some time off to support caring for your family or spending time with your children or whatever it might be. So I think we do have to be careful from a legal perspective. And then also just reputational. We don't want people out there saying, they're working me crazy. And they don't pay me, right. We want people to feel that they're supported.

Mark Williams  8:25  
Yeah, I 100% agree. I'm going to share a real brief story. I had a manager several years ago, probably 12 or 15, that when I was first hired, sat down with me with an agenda. And on that agenda, he outlined his expectations of communicating with him. Like how, you know, if you were to send an email at 10 o'clock at night, he didn't expect a return until a certain time, that kind of thing. But he really let me know the expectations of working with him and how to reply to him how to communicate with him, and what his expectations of me what his expectations that I was setting with our customers. I do believe there comes a point where you have to train your customers as to the service that you're providing. I love that we used to have business hours and those hours were from either eight to five or nine to five now because a salesperson and those are the people that we represent can work as often as they want to. They expect service oftentimes to match the way they work. Yeah, and we really do have to train them as to when we're open when we're willing to reply when we're not. And I will still fall back on if your services that fantastic between eight and five, your customer will continue to do business with you even if they can't get a hold of you at other later hours. Would you agree with that disagree with that and or is that kind of the thinking that you would you would recommend?

Pleasure Allen  9:54  
I love that Mark I wish I wish other leaders thought like you and like that leader to help you under And what really is expected. I think that is a big part of the challenge that people are unclear about what they should be focused on and priorities. I think there's also a challenge that you hit on mark that really talks about competencies. Again, if we're working in an environment where we have less structure in place, people are working more, because they don't maybe have the skill set to get things done. In that time, I think you're describing a high performer that's mastered what's priority that knows their business, and that they can operate at a high level, I would completely agree with you that if my experience that I leave you with this awesome, and I'm meeting those expectations, and exceeding them in some pockets, I think that absolutely works. And I think as long as both parties understand what's expected in that regard, and what's considered high performance, I think it works well. I love that. Love that.

Mark Williams  10:54  
Pleasure. I think, I think in recent times, we've gone into this mentality of productivity, quantity over quality, I see that in a lot of places. It's something we we strive everyday not to fall into that trap. And although it's difficult, because we want our employees to work at, you know, the expression 110% of their job, you know, work really hard. But I think we do at times give up quality. And so from from your perspective, how do you motivate an employee to give us our their best without losing that quality? But over time, you do have to produce more right that we have to become better as a business. And so I'm curious from from simply the HR perspective, how do we give that message that quality always matters, but at times, we do have to increase our quantity?

Pleasure Allen  11:43  
I love that question mark, I think one employees want to know, especially more than ever, that you care about them, right. And so if you're approaching it to say, I don't want you're working on your weekends, I want you taking care of your family, I need you making the hard decision and doing what matters most to you and your family, because those are things that are not easily replaced. Not suggesting that you can easily replace a career by any means. But you know, the love of your life or those the football game for your children or, you know, being at the event and being present, you won't get those moments back. So I think one first, do you care about me, and I need to feel that. And I need to see that on a consistent basis. I think typically employees also mark fall in the shadow of their leaders. And so even though sometimes we'll set the stage and we think we've done it, if on a consistent basis, I'm getting that text from you at 10. And you're like, Hey, don't feel pressure to respond. Well, that's going to be kind of tough, because I want to emulate what I see is excellent in my culture, right. So if I aspire to grow, or I want your attention to see me as a top performer, I might fall into that. So we want to show consistent behaviors that this is the culture we want you to live by. And then I think how we can motivate employees additionally is help them to understand that building their skill and competency actually builds capacity. I have managed many people in my career. And most of the time, when I see individuals working longer there, it's because they're working harder because they either don't have the business acumen they don't know the business. Sometimes they don't have the professional capacity, meaning they don't have the skill set, they need to learn about it or it needs to be developed. But you're able to balance I'm able to balance and you've seen many in your career of managing executive level professionals that their capacity evolves because of the strength that they have around business knowledge, and expertise. And so I would say motivating them around developing the skills that create capacity for them to have more success that creates more balance. A great example, I have a member of my team right now. And he says to me, how did you get all of that done plus be available to me. And I had to remind him, you're just learning the discipline of talent acquisition, I understand it, I could tell you how to do it in my sleep. So those are things that give me capacity, where he's learning it and the more he learns about it, the more efficient he'll become, the more effective he'll become, and the more capacity he'll create. So I'm motivating him to develop the skills to learn the business and that will free his time up.

Mark Williams  14:31  
I love that. You know, I've written in my book actually about able to want to and allowed to one of my my favorite expressions that I learned early on in my career. You have to give your employee the tools right they have to be able to do the job, whether that's a sit stand desk, or dual monitors or headset or whatever that that that workstation looks like they have to be able to but I would also argue that able to is I'm giving them the ability to Alright, so I'm not the bottleneck, I am not micromanaging, you then have the want to, I can't provide an employee with the want to that's, that's really, you have to have the drive, you have to have the you want to be able to get up in the morning and come to work. And allowed to, once again, that's a reflection of what I'm willing to allow my employee to do, how much creativity and innovation for example, can we bring to the job? I know what brokers we're attempting to really ask our employees to be creative and innovative with their jobs. How can an employer really emphasize or what tools can they use to help employees be feel comfortable being creative and innovative in their jobs, as opposed to just doing what they're told?

Pleasure Allen  15:45  
Yeah, I think that actually, Mark speaks a lot to kind of the 7020 10 model. When we think about developing, right, we want employees to be the CEO have their own careers as well, right, we want them to own and manage that. And so maybe we can be more creative and shadowing and learning from another person, or mentorship and relationship building, I never want to go to the classroom, that's not going to give me effective tools. I'd rather you know, spend time talking with you learning from you getting techniques. And so I think we have to empower and as you said, give permission for the employee to explore and get curious about what really works for them, and not just present to them these specific models for development and growth and, and learning, but given them a real challenge to pause and think, how do you learn Pleasure? How do you absorb and what really sticks to help you to create the right tools for your growth, we also have to be not afraid to invest, right? What we don't have in house, can we pay for you to get external? And that is also something that's creative. I think, typically, sometimes we're saying you're in this discipline, these are the trainings and the classes and the conferences you should go to. But how do you really dig in, I think from an emotional intelligence perspective, and really help people based on where they really shine, where they really grow. And what really is attractive to them. from a learning perspective, I think that's where their creativity lies. And then they come back to you with solutions versus you telling them what to do, being open to the recommendations, and then enabling that to happen as much as you can.

Mark Williams  17:30  
I love that. And I think we've seen that actually, with our own employee base at brokers International, coming out of COVID. And one of the examples I'll use is that is the workplace flexibility that we put in place. It really was a round table discussion, both from the bottom up and the top down. Lots of differing opinions. And there are lots of differing opinions nationwide, and through different workforces of what really flexible work environment looks like. But we really did listen to our employees. And I think that meant a lot to them. That flexibility that we put in place. And I really don't want to go down the road of is that the right thing or the wrong thing, but listening to our employees, and I'll circle back to something you said employees need to understand that you care about them. And that's not just the job they're doing. You need to care about them as human beings. God forbid someone's in the hospital or even a pet is sick. Having a little bit of empathy for someone's personal situation and providing a little bit of freedom, and a conversation about giving them some flexibility in times of need. For example, I think those things go a long way. And you know this, we do an employee survey every year. And we have 100 and about 125 employees, and we get a lot of comments, probably 60 or 70 of them in which we read every single one. We've incorporated a lot of that employee feedback and let them know it. What are other things that employers can do to let their employees know they're really thinking about them?

Pleasure Allen  18:59  
I love that mark. And I agree we've done all of those things and continue to implement different strategies that help with employee engagement. I think celebrations are big, right? People want to have fun, people want to bring their authentic selves to work and feel like they belong. And so creating an environment where it's fun and people can kind of let their hair down. I think you do an excellent job of just being human and normal. And I think that helps. Right? Imagine that Mark Williams is normal. Yes. And I think that really helps your employee population to feel comfortable, right to feel comfortable to be engaged. I think when people authentically believe that this is the culture, you never have to wait for a survey or even a meeting people and you're in tune as well mark, which is something that I think leadership has to really adopt really understanding your staff. Your survey is just one mechanism to gauge But you should absolutely have a true understanding of who is Pleasure when I'm when you're interacting with me something's off with her, I can see something strange. I need to ask better questions. And so I think really leveraging emotional intelligence, getting to know your team, being authentically there and human, so that they can authentically be themselves and share what they need. I think it helps celebrating and having fun, even though we're well balanced, we still spend most of our time together in a work environment. So people want to be able to share and talk in all positions. So I've been in customer service, how do you go into that space and say, I know we've been on the phone, but really quick, I want to drop off, you know, treats, or I want to celebrate. And then I think the other thing is, to me, it's just magic. It's like the extra butter on a slice of bread, that when I'm talking to you, and you know, Jason, and you know, what's happening in my life, there is no greater appreciation, I think you can show a person like me, that you absolutely know, my family and that you care about, hey, what are you guys working on how you went on a vacation? How was that? Did you disconnect? And so I think your employees will actually give you the feedback unsolicited, and will engage with you the way that you engage with them.

Mark Williams  21:24  
Awesome feedback. And all of this has been from the employers perspective. But let's be honest, every once in a while we have employees that take advantage of us. Yes. And whether that's whether that's and again, we could argue the work life balance and the flexibility of working at home and is and is their productivity up or down. But there are specific situations where we as managers get a feeling that our employee has taken advantage of us from, from a purely HR perspective, provide the audience some tips as to how do you uncover that together? And how do you rectify that situation when you know you are being taken advantage of? Because unfortunately, it does happen? Absolutely.

Pleasure Allen  22:05  
Mark, I think we are afraid in the culture today. And I'm meaning as a as a society, we don't always want to address things head on, right? We don't want to be unpopular. leaders want to be liked. And I think we have to shift a little bit from just being liked, because I think that's important to being respected. And I think most people want to win and want to be successful. I don't think anybody comes in and wakes up and says, I hope to fail today. I want to let mark down, right? They want to win. And so I I'm a fond believer and a fan of just accountable questions, getting curious. So one, typically data is going to tell you right, the results of what you're getting from an incumbent will tell you if they're engaged. And if they're getting their work done. Customer feedback will also probably tell you if an employee is getting their their work done, or if they're engaged and maybe busy. I think making sure the result or the product delivery is strong is another way to measure that if an employee is is getting the work done, when you find that maybe some of those metrics are off, right? Work is not quality work is not there. Customer feedback also supports it, your direct observation also supports it. But I think leaders should be curious, the wrong thing to do immediately is say, Mark, I know you're not busy, you're not working hard. Excuse me, I just lost you. Right? You're out of there, you're disengaged. So get curious, right and use the data be open? Hey, Mark, I want to be honest, I've observed that you've changed a little bit, you seem not to be producing the same level of work, or, Hey, I want to be candid with you. I got some really tough feedback from a stakeholder. Is it alright, if I share that with you? This is not my perception. But this is what I've heard. And I've heard it from a client. And sometimes we try to protect anonymity versus no, I heard it from Pleasure, Pleasure as a stakeholder of yours has not been pleased with what you've delivered. You know, how can we turn that around? Or what am I missing? Or when you see this? What do you think that switches the employee's perspective from being defensive to Well, I can't argue the facts. But it also gives them an opportunity to explain what you might be missing. And hopefully, or typically, you might hear Mark, I don't like working with play. She's not awesome. And so I probably wasn't giving it my best or I've been really swamped at home and Mark, I'm not even sure what happened. Or they may not even realize that it's off. I think then you can move into now that we understand this is where we have some breakdown. What are your thoughts on solutioning? I have some thoughts, but I want to hear from you. And I think employers or excuse me, employees will appreciate that it's safe, that it's not accusatory, but it's curious, and then they know that you want a solution with them. You're not wanting to terminate them, you don't want them to lose, you care about them. They are our biggest competitive advantage. We want to invest in them, but we do expect them to deliver. So then I think as you wrap that solutioning leader should then go back to at VRI. This is what we believe, as a member of my executive team, this is my brand of leadership, and I need us deliver that, how can I help you get there? I love

Mark Williams  25:24  
that. And I'll also share a story that literally just happened a few weeks ago, where I had an employee call me, and that employee felt like she was being taken advantage of. I have an open door policy at the office. So to give a little context, many employees, I have a very strong relationship with and would reach out to me directly. I think, I think we foster that at our company. And I always share with their direct managers that someone has reached out to me. And this employee came to me and said, You know, I was hired underneath someone, that person left. Now I'm not allowed to make decisions. And my advice back and I'm curious, your thoughts on that. My advice back was, this is a very fair conversation for you to have with your upline manager. If you feel that you don't understand what's being asked of you what the duties and responsibilities you're being held accountable for? That's a very fair question to ask to make sure that you understand your guidelines that you understand what you're working for. What is your thoughts on that interaction between an employee who really feels like the company or their managers taking advantage of them? How did they rectify that situation?

Pleasure Allen  26:33  
Yeah, I love that you're challenging the employee to have the courage to have the conversation. I think that it's important to note mark, even for your audience here that one thing that I think is absolutely phenomenal about your leadership brand, is you have an ability to make someone feel like they're the most important thing in any given situation. And you create safety that they won't be held punitively, if they're honest with you. And so I think while you're challenging that employee to have courageous conversations, I absolutely agree with that. I wonder if they feel how do they even start, right? And so I think tooling them with the Get Out of Jail Free card, right? I've even used that Mark, I need to get out of jail free card. And that means I just need to say it How big is and we need people to be able to do that. And really actively listen, I love the approach, I think it's going to be more powerful. If the employee can be honest about the feedback, I hope the employee has the courage to say, I want to hold on here to my seat. But can you tell me why I'm not empowered to make the decisions because I feel and feelings and facts are different mark. And you can appreciate that. And I think this specific employee may be operating in a space of feeling. And it's hard. Like you don't have a sign in my office that says you do not get to tell people how to feel. And so I think it's important for the leader to acknowledge the feelings, and then ask permission to dig into the facts. This is why you're not empowered Pleasure, because I need to see your competence built, or I need to see that you have the capacity. But I think it's a gift that you have there's an artistry to creating that safety for people. And I don't think every leader has that competency. And I think that's a little bit of the challenge. The leader cares a great deal. The leader will verbalize that they care, but the individual may not feel it. And that they would come all the way to the CEO speaks volumes to the safety and the open door you've created in your culture.

Mark Williams  28:37  
Well, I have to tell you, I just wrote it down feelings are not facts. Fantastic statement. One that I think about quite a bit. Actually, we all have our own perception. And whether that perception is correct or incorrect that perception is everyone's own reality. Right. And so I think there's a there's a lot of information in that comment alone, making sure that people are looking at how someone is feeling about a situation isn't always fact based, but they're feeling it anyway. Um, so I love that thank you very much. As we kind of wind down a little bit, I wanted to ask a personal question, if you don't mind simply because this is balanced, not burnout. It's Saturday morning. You have no responsibilities, you can do whatever you'd like, with whomever you'd like. And I'm curious as to how you would choose to spend your Saturday morning not burning out.

Pleasure Allen  29:29  
I love that Mark Williams I love that question. So I will say in the last year and especially in my partnership with brokers I have learned to be more balanced and I have found that I actually enjoy just me time, which I don't know Mark if I would have appreciated had you talked to me a few years ago right a few years ago I'm like no way I got to spend time with my daughter and I got cuz she's gonna move out one day and I got to spend time with my son because he's gonna go to college one day and I need every Minute with them. And don't forget my husband. But now, on a Saturday morning with no commitment and no schedule, I would first schedule an appointment with my couch, I love my home mark, it is my palace. And I, I forget all the effort I put into creating a space that speaks to resting for me and creating a space that creates a chance to relax. And so I might start on the couch, I have learned to mark that I don't need a lot of noise. I like just my own thoughts. I love to read. And so I might spend some time doing that. And I actually want to read junk. So in my profession, I always have to read to develop, make sure that I know what's next. So I can care for, you know, a leader like you and others. But sometimes you just want junk reading Mark. So now you know Pleasure Alan is reading junk. on a Saturday morning, I might sit on my front porch and just really have time with my own thoughts and practice a little more mindfulness. And just enjoy that me time. I have not experienced in my career where I have done a great job at that. And so I'm great to have a little more balance to where I'm spending that time just on me. I deserve it. It's great.

Mark Williams  31:21  
And yes, you do. I love to hear that. And I will save what type of junk you are reading for another day. Pleasure Allen, it was so awesome for you to be on balance, not burnout with me. So thank you very much for your time. And all of your efforts at Brokers International, I must say and again, thank you very much for being here. Fantastic, fantastic guest on our show.

Pleasure Allen  31:41  
Awesome. Thank you, Mark.

Mark Williams  31:44  
Thanks for listening. If you think bounces is important as I do at work and all throughout your life, help the show out by subscribing and leaving a five star review following me on social media. Or please share the podcast with someone you think would appreciate it. If you have comments or questions, connect with me on LinkedIn and join the conversation there. Thanks for sharing your time with me today. And until next time, this is Mark signing off.