Marc Clarke - Navigating Media Mastery: From Corporate Coaching to Podcasting Evolution

Ready to enhance your media and communication skills? We guarantee you'll gain valuable insights from our conversation with Marc Clarke, CEO of Marc Clarke Media Group. With three decades of experience in radio and television, Marc dives into the myriad services his company offers, from production to specialized coaching for corporate clients. Plus, we get a behind-the-scenes look at his podcast "Married in Media," co-hosted with his wife Allison Seymour, where they blend their personal and professional lives.

Ever wondered what it takes to ace a media interview? We explore the nuances of preparing for TV and radio appearances, sharing tips on how to maintain your composure under the spotlight. Drawing from my own experiences as a TV host and feature reporter, I highlight the contrasting dynamics between structured television interviews and the more free-flowing nature of radio conversations. Learn the strategies that can help you feel more at ease and deliver a memorable interview, whether you prefer meticulous preparation or a more spontaneous approach.

Finally, we delve into the evolving media landscape, discussing trends in podcasting and the impact of social media platforms like TikTok and Instagram on content creation. Marc shares exciting projects focused on teaching communication skills to a diverse audience, and we reflect on the importance of following your passion in media. Tune in for an inspiring discussion that encourages you to leverage modern technology and share your unique story with the world.

Transcript

Media Coaching and Industry Changes

Speaker 1 0:30

My name is Mark Clark and I'm the CEO of Mark Clark Media Group, which is a full-service media company specializing in production, video and audio production, and also coaching.

Speaker 2 0:42

Wonderful, and can you go into detail a little bit about what type of coaching that you do and what type of media training that entails?

Speaker 1 0:50

Yeah, so I'm basically a 30-year veteran of radio and television and my wife is also a television a news veteran for the next generation of communicators, but also for those who in corporate America and those in general who you know want some help with their communication skills.

Speaker 1 1:22

So our clients range from corporate, where you know CEOs and owners who really need some help on being effective when they do interviews and even when they're doing doing interviews and also when they're being interviewed.

Speaker 1 1:38

Also for those people who have again same corporate kind of clients who aren't that comfortable with public speaking, keynote speaking Also, we help with. You know, nowadays corporate companies use teleprompters almost just like television does, and so also helping with that and really just presence in front of the camera and in front of the microphone, that's the, that's, that's the main client, and so we're, we're open to be honest, you know, because we have been in the field for such a long time, many of the people were people that we knew or people that we know, and then now we're branching more out to just the general market because I'm seeing a lot of people do need help, because now everybody has a camera which is a phone, and so you know almost like how I can help your podcast, how I can make you the best broadcaster on your podcast or any platform that you're on. You know.

Speaker 2 2:28

Yeah, great, thank you. And now tell me about your extensive background, all the experiences that you've had in media, and how it's led you to now this stage in your life.

Speaker 1 2:39

Sure. So my love for media started when I was in middle school and and then I went to college majoring in radio television broadcasting at Southern Illinois University and then that led to a radio career for 30 years where I started in. I started in St Louis, I'm sorry I started in Charles, I started in. I start again. I started in Huntsville, alabama, and then Charleston, south Carolina, then St Louis, and then I met my wife in St Louis and followed her to the DC area and so then I was in Baltimore for nine years, and then DC, then New York, and then I segued into television in DC and in Baltimore and you know, so it's been pretty extensive, like I said, 30 plus years of really doing something that I really love and I'm passionate about. So I've been spoiled. Yeah, yeah, I've been spoiled.

Speaker 2 3:38

Great, and now my next question is about marketing. I know that you have a podcast. If you want to talk to us about that and what it's about Sure and what other ways you market yourself online.

Speaker 1 3:48

Sure, the Allison and Mark podcast, married in Media, which is me and my wife, who've both been in the media for, you know, 25 years, and it really is just. I find that people are just really curious about and I've also been married for 25 years, so people are curious about the inner workings of just seeing two married people. You know the energy I notice we get the most feedback and the most energy from sharing our personal stories, family stories and things like that. You know our marketing really has been social media. We're getting ready to I'm actually getting ready to, for the first time, really do put more time in because I have been.

Speaker 1 4:32

I still was working in television, so I recently decided to just step all the way out and just do this full time and so I'm really excited about that because, you know, I think working in media you feel like you're an entrepreneur, but you're. You still get that check every two weeks and there's a difference between being a real entrepreneur and working for somebody, and you know I'm really learning that. But I understand it and I have so much respect for entrepreneurs who do this, you know, day in and day out, because that's what it really is. Every day you wake up. You have to meet a challenge, you know. So I'm curious to see how it feels.

Speaker 1 5:12

But my wife is still working.

Speaker 2 5:14

Okay, but she's not a news anchor anymore. What does she like to do?

Speaker 1 5:17

Yeah, she's still a news anchor. She's still a news anchor.

Speaker 2 5:19

She is.

Speaker 1 5:20

What channel is she on? Where can we see her? Yeah, she's at Channel 9 in Washington DC, wusa 9. Allison Seymour on the Morning Show, and so she's been in Fox 5 for 20 years and so now she's so you know.

Speaker 2 5:35

Very cool.

Speaker 1 5:37

I'm stepping out, but I've got to.

Speaker 2 5:40

Your podcast, your own, the way you want to do it, and just do what you like, right? Yeah Cool, I love that. What are a couple of changes that you've noticed in the industry that have changed throughout?

Speaker 1 5:53

the years in your career I noticed you know working in what's considered, I guess, large markets. There was a time you know I sound like an old man. I'm my old days.

Speaker 2 6:03

No, you're a professional.

Speaker 1 6:04

Yeah, well, there was a time when you know you had to really work your way through the markets. You couldn't work in a Washington DC, you had to start off at a little bitty market and work yourself up. So I think a lot of the changes are. You know, back then the companies were like owned by private companies, mom and pops, you know. And then the corporate guy, when the corporate animal, came in, it changed it a bit. So, like, for instance, my experience with producers and directors, a lot of times it was their like second job, like you know, baltimore DC it was like what? That was unheard of when I was coming up. And also, though, look at technology, where you could take a young person coming through the door in a major market and, to be honest, as an editor they're probably better than the old school editors. I mean, they know how to use the new tools better. Let's put it that way.

Speaker 1 7:03

You know, what I mean. They basically were using the same thing that you use at network in their basement, and so they know a lot of tricks. All you have to do is look at Instagram and TikTok and look at the regular people and then look at traditional and, to be honest, I think the regular people are kind of kicking our butts, you know. I mean they're just more creative.

Speaker 2 7:27

You know the graphics and the energy it's changed with our time. Right Like having more knowledge and resources with YouTube and being able to self teach yourself all of that and back then they didn't have that advantage. So it's kind of like a give and take.

Speaker 1 7:42

It's a give and take, and I think that's why it is a need for our company, because it's like you know it used to be you had to get vetted to get on the platform. Now, anybody can get on the platform and, as you see, a lot of people who have millions of followers and make millions of dollars. But are they great interviewers? Not necessarily. Are they great speakers? Not necessarily. You know what I mean. They don't necessarily know the nuts and bolts of what it is to be a great communicator. But also, what I think my generation has learned is that, um, there's a balance. You know what I mean. It's almost like what, uh, the younger people understand that have grown up with, like you said, uh, these platforms and also been influenced by, uh, athletes and and rappers and entertainers. It's like almost, uh, the value is what you, what you're saying, not necessarily how you're saying it. And when you look at social media, you know if you are not entertaining and captivating and compelling, you could be the smartest man in the world and nobody will follow you.

Speaker 2 8:53

You'll have no clicks, whereas if you're over the top and you're you know'll have no clicks.

Speaker 1 8:56

I mean yeah, whereas if you're over the top and you're you know what I mean, because a lot of times we break down like the people who are super popular, it really is just that they like the personality and they like how they deliver the information.

Speaker 2 9:06

We all have the same information yeah, yeah, it's how you deliver it, right yeah, and you know it's interesting.

Speaker 1 9:11

I think one of the this is is a new. I was driving in today looking forward to our interview. One of the new things I really have to say is, as a communications company, there are new rules for young people, you know.

Speaker 2 9:26

Share that with us.

Speaker 1 9:27

Yeah, I think so I'm 58, you know.

Speaker 2 9:30

You look great. Thank you, you're welcome.

Speaker 1 9:33

So you know, and I think I got over because I was the guy who always, you know, big personality, funny, warm, very relatable, very touchy, very, you know what I mean. Nowadays that'll get you in trouble, you know, if you say too much, if you're too comfortable, if you're you know what I mean, yes, too comfortable if you're. You know what I mean. It's a different style of communication, because we have a generation of people who really didn't grow up with the one-on-one communication. That used to be a plus, walking into a room and, as my wife says, never meeting a stranger. That used to be a plus. Now it can come off kind of creepy and so I think my company yeah, that's right, you know what do you think about that? I hadn't thought about. You know, coming in, I was driving and I was thinking about that. You know that kind of old way. It's different.

Speaker 2 10:34

It's different. What I think about that is I think that is great that you're offering a platform or a place where they can be comfortable to have that conversation in private, like hey, maybe we thought this was okay to say, but now it's not so much. I think that's a great way and, especially since you understand that and hearing it from you, someone who's a professional and tenured it'll make them feel more comfortable, because sometimes it can come off like if somebody else says it and they're not as experienced as you it can come off kind of like you don't know what you're talking about, but you are the

Speaker 2 11:13

professional and you know your work and you've done it, you've seen it, yeah, you've studied it. I think that what your business is doing by offering that service for people who want to get themselves out more and be a little not to say that they're out of touch, but to get in touch with what is now considered to be more professional yeah, yeah, I think that's great and I think it's brilliant that you're offering that. So if anybody out there finds themselves like man, maybe I do need to brush up on some of those communication skills. Please check out Mark Clark's business.

Speaker 1 11:44

He will help you and it's interesting seeing it in play, like just recently with the you know, the new candidate for vice president, with Kamala Harris. I remember just having the sound down and seeing, just seeing him, you know, and so he was very, he was a coach, so he's all coachy.

Speaker 2 12:06

So without sound is what you take off.

Speaker 1 12:08

Yeah, I just saw him raw, you know. So this is the first time I'm seeing him. First I wasn't familiar with him from a standpoint of a personality side, so I'm just seeing him for the first time, you know, very rah-rah, very smiley, very, and I was just thinking having three daughters, having three kids, I was like, hmm, they would not like this Because it was, you know, it was very gung-ho, which, again, that was a thing Now, you know. But actually when I turned the volume on, and actually he's very charming, fine storyteller, great communicator, but I was just thinking I'm probably that model, but that model nowadays plays differently than it used to. You know, it's almost like now, it's almost a cool, it's almost a.

Speaker 1 12:50

You know, it's a certain kind of vibe that people when you communicate, and especially if you're talking about, like I said, you're a corporate leader but you're meeting with your team, now the old school way, it was almost like the king would come in and everybody would just be quaking in their boots and it didn't matter. You just were like, ah, now it's a little different, especially if you're trying to attract a certain type and to hire a certain type of personality. And you can see that when you look around at different stores Some stores have a different vibe than others and, again, having young people even looking for jobs, the stores they choose to apply to very interesting. So communication has changed. I think it's everywhere, but there are different ways to do it and ways that I think you have to be aware of, and I think that's a box we're trying to check off.

Speaker 2 13:43

Yeah, absolutely, and it goes both ways too, because, like you said, some people have a million followers, all of this, and they are not the best communicators like that. So it can go both ways right. It's just meeting that happy middle and finding where you can be yourself but also be a good communicator.

Speaker 1 13:58

Yeah, and you know, I'm always amazed by especially CEOs like that person who put that business together. And then you've seen it before where people you know well-known successful businesses, but then when you see them sit down on a one-on-one interview, you're almost like, hmm, not what I expected.

Speaker 2 14:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 14:23

You know, working in entertainment, I used to find that with those people who are just so famous and so wealthy and so popular, and then you're always thinking, oh, this person, when I interview them, they're going to drop all these gems, they're going to have such an understanding. And then you just go like, oh no, actually, in all those years 30 years there's only been maybe two where you go, okay, I mean, the first time I met Will Smith, you're just like, okay, this guy, I was working at a radio station and at the station they had a, they had a beauty, a beauty school. Yeah, and so Will come, you know, it comes in all Will Smith, and then he's like it's a beauty school downstairs. So he runs downstairs and then can you imagine like they're you know what I mean, these ones in there and, oh my God, will Smith. And so I had to grab some pictures and he was just so Will Smith, the charisma there, and, oh my god, will.

Preparing for Media Interviews

Speaker 1 15:14

Smith and took autographs and took pictures and he was just so. Will Smith, the charisma, yeah, the charisma, you know, from the, from the young people to the older people, everybody was in love with him. And uh, you know, but you know very few the other people. They come and they have that same image, but actually they're kind of distant or they're very quiet, you know they have a good PR person to show them online and all that good stuff yeah.

Speaker 2 15:36

What are some of the issues that Maybe some of your clients have been coming in that you've noticed being a trend that they're looking for help or like oh wow, it looks like this seems to be an issue that everybody wants to correct and I'm here to help them.

Speaker 1 15:50

Recently. You know, being the host of a TV show, I'm always surprised, actually. So I was the host of a TV show and also I was the feature reporter where I did a feature, where I did a feature where I would go into bars, restaurants, again talking to the person who was in charge and talking to the person who was in charge of the festival or whatever. I was always because I've been doing it so long. It's always interesting how, just miking the person up, I could feel the tension, the energy and how they would just be really like almost so nervous that they would lose themselves. And this is a 90 second interview, so it's a quick hit, but it was like the lights, the mic, you know the pressure for this person who you built this multimillion dollar company and you do this, but it's like very interesting when they saw those lights. And so I think, regardless of the success level of the person, most people are not that comfortable in front of a microphone, in front of a light, that comfortable in front of a microphone, in front of a light, in front of a camera. Most people, you know, working in radio forever, everybody hates how their voice sounds the first time, right. So it's interesting because it's like that's a everybody who's there, you know. So I've heard that a billion times because most people, because it's like you have to get used to hearing your voice Most people hate how they look in the shot right, and so, you know, the main thing is having people take a deep breath and really, you know, I think that's the thing I do provide is the trusting voice. I'm kind of the personality that, because what I do is, you know, I usually just, I always say look at it like I'm your uncle, or our conversation will get them into it where they'll say okay, because I think that's the part like if you, especially you know, as a reporter, if they feel like I'm going to ask them an embarrassing question or ask something they don't know, then they feel a certain way. But so I guess the thing that is always important is number one let them know what to expect. So managing their expectations. Number two no surprises. Give them all the information.

Speaker 1 18:19

You know I'm sure you run into this interviewing people all the time, but you have, and there's kind of two kind of people. Some people want to know everything. They want to. They'll come in flustered already. They want to be. You know. The energy has to be right and they want to know exactly what you're going to ask them. Some people yes, other people are OK, I think that's probably. I think most people want to know the questions, but they don't want to be rude, so they don't say that. But they really want to know what are you going to ask me? Yes, and that was the difference between working in television and working in radio. Working in television is much more planned out, and so a lot of times I always think it's funny when you watch shows and the person will go uh oh, great question. Oh, they wrote the question.

Speaker 2 19:06

So that always cracks me up, you know great question, you know and then and then uh.

Speaker 1 19:13

But then you know, radio was as much. It was like a. You know especially how I did. It was very just spontaneous. They didn't know, and I, I like that aspect, but I think I think you're that way too, but uh, I am Nice observation. But you know, yeah, so like some people just want to be super prepared. But even those weirdos, that kind of freaks them out too. So it's almost like a fine line, because if you tell them too much and it's like they're still out of the place.

Podcasting Trends and Media Evolution

Speaker 2 19:35

Yes, I actually like sometimes they want to overprepare and they bring notes and then they're like wait, can I say that again? And you can't get past because they're trying to read exactly what they wrote and it's just like no, let's just do this in a natural way. How you would actually talk to me at a coffee shop without cameras and lights? I know they're here, but try to think of it that way, right.

Speaker 1 19:53

Yes, I know you have a million stories Because it's funny, those types of people and sadly, if you're watching this and that kind of person. No disrespect. No, but it's like you really do see the control freak aspect, because it'll be like, hey, I don't know what I'm doing, but let me tell you what I need to do.

Speaker 2 20:09

Yes, we just always want everyone to feel comfortable and good and just feel like I'm not going to ask you anything crazy.

Speaker 1 20:15

It's simple stuff, that you'll know the answers to Trust.

Speaker 2 20:19

But yeah, and where do you hope to see yourself in the next five years with your podcast? Maybe some more projects coming in the works.

Speaker 1 20:29

I'm really excited. I have a lot of projects in the works, including, basically, you know, teaching media for young people and just for people in general, or for those in need, or for disadvantaged people or just in general. Just, you know, in the debate, when I say media at that point really is more communications than media. You know how to, how to dress for an interview, how to interview properly, how to, you know, carry yourself in a certain way that reflects who you are. You know that kind of stuff, that box. Then you got the media box where you know, yes, let me help you make your podcast better by making you a better communicator.

Speaker 2 21:28

You know how to be a better communicator, and then, of course, in the corporate world, I would love to land a big fish, he's a billionaire, but he doesn't know how to talk, let me help you out, buddy, let me help you out, you know.

Speaker 1 21:33

Yeah, let me make you warm and not a cold fish. Let me make you look comfortable you know yeah.

Speaker 1 21:37

Come on, just sign it, let's do this thing for five years and I'll do, I'll do everybody underneath you, then we can, then you can train them up. But you know that that would be very exciting and then for me, uh, me and the wife, uh, yeah, the podcast really, just, um, raising the, uh, we're doing a lot. We're starting actually this month more live, uh, almost like a show. You know, I was thinking about that, like that's something else that's also in play and I think we can help terms terms. It used to be a show, you know we're doing a show. Now you say podcast and people say what do you mean? You probably remember when people, even now you probably say podcast and some people go, oh, wait a minute, now what does that, what does that?

Speaker 2 22:14

mean Is it just audio? Is it video, exactly?

Speaker 1 22:16

And it can be both now. Remember there was a vlog and it was a vlog. I think vlog died.

Speaker 2 22:21

Yes, it did.

Speaker 1 22:22

Podcast goes strong, very interesting. Some people I know just love the straight audio, some people love the video. I say the thing about the Shannon Sharp Cat Williams podcast that I thought for me as a media person was, I felt like I mean Joe Rogan, I think, was you know, for people who were already there, joe Rogan, right, he was the guy with the diversity, a variety of topics, long-form conversations and he kind of like was in this box. But then the Shannon Cat Williams interview I thought was different because to me it felt like it was like those people who really weren't into it at all were talking about this thing and it signaled to me that I think the older demo finally had arrived. You know what I mean. I think podcasting really was.

Speaker 1 23:11

There are older people who listen to NPR and to certain podcasts. Those people the same people who probably listen to audiobooks. They're the older demographic, but I think now it's definitely. I think here it's much more mainstream, more people I see it on the YouTube numbers more and more people, I think, in that older age group have found it said before, you almost had to be either sensational, over the top, aligned with something that was already popular, a hot tv show a hot, whatever you know to get the numbers. But I think you now that I think older demos coming in, uh, I think it's expanding.

Speaker 2 23:56

So, yeah, it'll be exciting times I agree, and I like see, like even I know this is kind of random, but even on tiktok I've seen like older, uh, demographic just killing it and I don't even know how to use it. So I'm just like go you, I know it kind of snuck up.

Speaker 1 24:10

It snuck up Because, you're right, the TikTok was like at first it was one thing and that's other things about social media If you're not paying attention, it changes on you. No-transcript the standard bearer now right, it's kind of like it's still there.

Speaker 2 24:52

Yeah, it's still going. It hasn't shut down. It still has a lot of people.

Speaker 1 24:56

In fact, I think numbers wise it's actually pretty crazy, but I think what it's the same is.

Speaker 2 25:00

what it's owned by is Facebook, instagram right, yeah, I think they bought each other's Facebook, bought Instagram. Yeah, yeah, zuckerberg.

Speaker 1 25:08

And so the platform. So, as somebody who majored in broad just imagine that's how old I am, look at that I majored.

Speaker 2 25:14

And you look great. Look at that skin it's plump and shiny.

Speaker 1 25:18

I majored in radio television broadcasting and I minored in journalism, and so that's like. I don't think they even offer that when you look at jobs and stuff, now it'll be like, it'll be like communication. It's not even that anymore radio television broadcasting, but now and so, like I said back then, it took so much to get on a platform. Now you can just pull your phone out and you can have an instant audience, instant production. You don't need anything. And, to be honest again, some of the apps, the visuals, are just as compelling as when you have the really expensive stuff.

Speaker 2 25:54

Yeah, if you know how to use them. Yes, correct, correct, wow.

Speaker 1 25:58

But you still need to know how to talk. But the thing is, you don't necessarily have to know how to talk. That's the part that's scary, because if you have something, people want, it really doesn't matter and I won't say that I'm going to have to. You need to know how to speak correctly and again, that was my generation. That was very important. It was like you're not going to. You know, they'd say you're not going to be taken seriously if you don. You got this many people.

Speaker 2 26:23

Man, I'd get in trouble if I talked like that. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 26:26

And I think, to be honest, a lot of professionals. If you notice professionals, the numbers aren't that big, because I think that's what we're not used to. I say we've People who've worked in the media on the professional level. We're not used to being our own marketer, promoter, we're not used to talking, but we're not used to necessarily going in depth on something other than a story. So a lot of times it's one thing if I'm reading a news story, it's another thing if I'm telling you how to do something. You kind of really got to know how to do it. So just think of, like the guy. And the other thing that's interesting is those people that have these skill sets. I mean, you do a podcast. You understand the value.

Speaker 1 27:06

That guy who's a plumber, that person who's an interior designer I'm sure you've had these kind of patients too. They might be your friends. You're like yo, you should do a podcast, yes, and then they'll go. I don't really see. But then you're looking at plumbers my friend's a plumber, all the the intricacies. Yeah, it's not directions. You know the directions say never light a flame around this. And then you get a plumber and they put that gook around and stuff and they light a match around it and you're like, hey man, the instructions say it's dangerous.

Speaker 2 27:37

Nah, it's okay, I do it all the time.

Speaker 1 27:40

So that person could have a million followers, because everybody wants to know how to do it that way.

Speaker 2 27:46

That way yeah.

Speaker 1 27:46

Because their instructions never work anyway, you know. So for those people who are watching that someone's told you you need to do a podcast.

Speaker 2 27:53

Please do a podcast right, it's always those that have like the most interesting like yeah stories personality.

Speaker 1 27:58

I mean honest. I felt a certain way one time because I thought about that. I was like yeah, I know how to say it, but what, what do I know? What do I know? You know what? Can I tell you what to do? You know you know what, what, what the can I give you? I don't know how to fix a car. I don't know how to do anything. I'm just a pretty face.

Speaker 2 28:15

Perfect, you're hired, sir. No, I love that. Have I touched on everything that you wanted to share on the podcast? Do you have any parting words for our listeners?

Speaker 1 28:27

I know you're tired. See, I will talk you to death. You're like man, no, no no, I am not tired.

Speaker 2 28:31

I could go I have so many more questions that I want to ask you. Trust me.

Passion for Media and Communication

Speaker 1 28:34

Well, hey, no, yeah, we definitely have touched on everything. I think, like you said, you know I'm actually it was Mark Clark Media, I'm to put them under the umbrella, the, and then yeah, that's it. If you are somebody in need of better communication skills, I would love to help you with that. Or even, even even, if you need some information or need to consult, consult you on you know how to set up your podcast, how to have a more effective podcast, you know how to do better interviews, all those things. That's what we're here for, because I genuinely here's the other thing I was thinking about coming in because I was watching your other interviews.

Speaker 1 29:20

Yes, and you know you're talking to people who are real estate. You know all these successful business owners. And I was like you know what? I'm going to tell a secret. My mother worked for Social Security and hated it, so as a kid I decided I'm going to do something that I love, and so media is what I love, and I've done it all these years.

Speaker 1 29:39

Shows yeah, and so I've never really had to work. My wife calls me the luckiest man in America, but you know, because it really is I mean it sounds like a cliche like you know, for the last two years in Baltimore, you know. So people would be like, oh my God, because you know it's seven in the morning, you see me drinking, I'm eating food, I'm dancing. You know they're like, oh my God, you have the best job. And it really hit me because I was like you know it really was, it really is, it really. You know to do something you really love, it's the best. And then just to be a communicator. So you know, that's the other thing.

Speaker 1 30:18

If you're watching this and you've always wanted to do media or have your own show, do it. There's no excuse now Because there used to be. Well, you had to get. You know, I got to get to a TV station, I got to. You can do it right now. And especially if you're not the, not a spring chicken, why not? You've learned so much at this point. You raise some kids, you have some kids. You know you have things that you know the job that you're working at, you know the ins and out of that I mean there's, there's space for it. So that's what my message would be for those who, you know, always wanted to do it.

Speaker 2 30:49

Yeah, no, thank you so much. You are like a book of insight and knowledge. Like I love this, like I have questions that I want to ask for myself and I'll probably ask you after, but I'm always here. Thank you so much for being here today.

Speaker 1 31:00

We really appreciate it, and let me just shout you out what a great podcast, but also what a great setup you have here. It's so comforting, it's so warm, it's beautiful. You're beautiful. You know what I mean. It's the energy, you know. So I love what you're doing, so keep on doing it.

Speaker 2 31:16

Thank you so much. I appreciate that. That was so lovely. We did not pay him to say that, by the way. Thank you.