22 ~ Behind the Scenes: Olivia Lara Owen Interviews Brenda and Catherine

Enjoy a behind the scenes tour on our podcasting journey, guided by our cherished friend and interviewer, Olivia Lara Owen.

We share the seed of desire that created this podcast, its transformative influence on us, and the deep bonds of friendship we have created along the way, and how that fuels this project. 

We laugh a lot about the learning curve of technology, learning to work together and build trust, and the synergy of our combined talents that brings each episode to life.

We dive into the terrain of wisdom, humility, and the perpetual curiosity it takes to hold the responsibility of this podcast, and drop episodes each week.  As we share tales of our own growth and of embracing the roles of both expert and practitioner, we share about our aspirations to be of service. Podcasting invites us to hold the balance of claiming our wisdom while nurturing a spirit of lifelong learning, hoping to empower our listeners through the shared riches of our experiences.

Desires have a way of expanding when shared, and in this episode, we share our personal aspirations for the future of Desire as Medicine podcast.  With Olivia's skillful questions, we reflect on the strength that comes from embracing our differences while staying committed to a collective vision.

Tune in to this very special episode with Olivia, Brenda and Catherine, in this heartfelt celebration of friendship, collaboration, and the unyielding pursuit of desire.

Please join us at our free online event that is mentioned in this episode, Desire Discovery Hour,  on Thursday, February 8  https://events.humanitix.com/desire-as-medicine

Connect with Olivia:
Insta:  @olivialaraowen
Website: www.olivialaraowen.com

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Desire as Medicine. We are two very different women living a life led by Desire inviting you into our world.

Speaker 2: 0:16

I'm Brenda. I'm a devoted practitioner to being my fully expressed true self in my daily life. Motherhood, relationships and my business Desire has taken me on quite a ride and every day I practice listening to and following the voice within.

Speaker 1: 0:32

I'm a middle school teacher turned coach and guide of the feminine, and I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the truest and hopefully the highest version of me. I don't have children. I've never been married. I've spent equal parts of my life in corporate as in some down and low shady spaces. I was the epitome of tired and wired and my path led me to explore Desire. I'm a coach, guide, energy worker and a forever student, Even after decades of inner work.

Speaker 2: 1:00

We are humble beginners on the mat, still exploring, always curious. We believe that listening to and following the nudge of Desire is a deep spiritual practice that helps us grow.

Speaker 1: 1:12

On the Desire as Medicine podcast. We talk to each other, we interview people we know and love about the practice of Desire, bringing in a very important piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire. Welcome everyone to another episode of Desire as Medicine podcast. Today's a special, special day on the podcast because I have one of my BFFs, olivia Lara Owen. I want to share that. She is an absolutely amazing human, amazing holder, amazing guide, who has the life force of a champion, is always ready, willing and able to be the first up for the next adventure, and she was such a yes to being willing to come on and just interview Brenda and I about our podcast. You can find her at OliviaLaraOwencom. I happen to also be co-facilitating, helping with one of her containers, which is currently called LaCour.

Speaker 1: 2:16

We have other things that are in the hopper coming up. I don't even know if I can say this, but I'm going to say it. I haven't asked her for permission. I guess the editing team could also always take that out if that's the case. But there will be a retreat happening in Paris in April 2024. So if you are interested in that, in having a very luxurious experience in Paris, experiencing the full woman liberated in you. Please reach out to her With that. I'll share that. I am beyond grateful that she said yes, not just to doing the interview today, being on this podcast today with Brenda and I, but I'm honored to call her a friend and to love her and know her as deeply as I do. Welcome, olivia.

Speaker 3: 3:15

Thank you so much. That was super, super, super hot, oming and beautiful, and it's a pleasure to be here, especially under these circumstances. Okay, well, hello everybody. I am Olivia, a dear friend of Catherine and Brenda's, and I have the honor of being the first person to be invited onto the pod to interview them.

Speaker 3: 3:51

So I'm very excited about this. I have a few questions up my sleeve, but really we're going to flow and I am curious about a number of things and I'm sure some of the listeners, some of you that have been here already following the podcast that is now on its 21st release as of recording day today, I'm sure some of the things that I'm curious about are so many of you are curious about. So, Catherine, Brenda, my first question is why do you want to do this and what made you specifically ask me to interview you? Let's start with the kind of let's set this up a little bit.

Speaker 2: 4:38

You mean? Why did we want to do this interview with you today? Is that what you mean?

Speaker 1: 4:42

Is that what you mean?

Speaker 2: 4:43

I was thinking oh, the whole podcast. Catherine and I have had so many juicy conversations about this podcast and how it's grown us. We drop into these beautiful, beautiful spaces about how it's grown us, because that's what our whole podcast is about. It's about how a desire grows you as a person just following the desire here, and we've both grown. I'm sure we'll get to that individually and as a couple, in partnership, creative partnership, and there's so many times that we're having conversations and we're like we should be recording this, we should be recording this, which is why we have a podcast in the first place.

Speaker 2: 5:39

And it was just naturally, olivia. It was naturally like oh yeah, we should have Olivia interview us. You have your own podcast and you're just. I just love you so much and we've traveled together on this path for so many years and I've just watched you and expand and grow and you're so real. What I love about you is you're so down to earth and you keep it so real and so you're the perfect person to interview us. And I was telling Olivia before we recorded that this morning, as I was in a bath getting ready for this, I heard Olivia's voice in my head and we were texting a few weeks ago and she said oh yeah, I'm the perfect person to interview you because I'm so nosy. And I was like I am so excited about that. It was like one of those things where it's like so great to just own what you are, because that really turned me on that. You were so nosy. I was like I wonder, what is she nosy about? So that's what brought me here today to this moment.

Speaker 3: 6:58

Love that so much. Captain Jordan, add anything?

Speaker 1: 7:03

I would say I don't think it's going to come as a shock to the listeners, but I'm not just open, I don't just want to share everything from the rooftops to people just out into the cosmos, into the space. I tend to be a lot more selective and so, when and if I'm in a room with people that I love and I feel safe with, I just figured who better than Olivia to ask me questions that I would be that much more willing to reveal, like the real real, the true, true, and, as Brenda pointed out, you have a juicy podcast and why not bring some of that juice here to the Desires Medicine Podcast? And that was really the initiative. Like, oh, I would love for her to be the person to ask the questions, because I foresee myself being so much more dropped in and really willing to reveal something that potentially, if somebody else was asking me, maybe I wouldn't be as keen.

Speaker 2: 8:08

Also, I really trust you, Olivia, I really trust you.

Speaker 3: 8:15

Thank you. That's a really, really beautiful thing to say and I feel that deeply. Yeah, that's true. So let's go back to before this, before Desires Medicine even existed. I'm curious for both of you what in your mind was a podcast like, for you created one. What did you think a podcast was, or what it might be like? Brenda?

Speaker 2: 8:48

You know, a podcast to me? I wasn't. I've kind of developed my own interest in listening to podcasts over time. Now that I'm a podcaster, I'm super interested in listening to people's podcasts. A podcast to me was like informational or stories. I listened to the moth a lot and this American life, that was actually it. So stories I happen to love stories and this was like, oh, we're just delving into a whole other area, like we're on the mat here. You know, in practice we do have a good amount of experience that we're bringing, but we're basically on the mat, so it's vulnerable. So it's like carving this new path of vulnerably talking about our experience.

Speaker 3: 9:44

So what that, like my sense and what you're saying is what this has ended up being was quite different from what you'd previously experienced in podcasts Totally, yeah, okay, okay, catherine, for you, what was it like before? Before this was even the thing, cause I can remember the time before it didn't exist, as it was kind of seeding. And I'm curious for you. I kind of know Catherine's references a little bit around podcasts.

Speaker 3: 10:08

She's a really like conversational podcast is what I know about Catherine. She likes them like. Well, what do you tell us Like? What do you like, what did you like before and what was your idea of a podcast?

Speaker 1: 10:20

I like the fact that I can learn something through listening, that it's very auditory and that I can just put it on, especially from listening on Spotify or something. Put it on press play, I can turn my phone off and I can just sort of walk and listen or clean and listen, do other things, be in action and have something that I'm listening to. It feels as if like the fly on the wall to a conversation that's informational and I prefer to just listen and learn. That's my preference as opposed to watching, because I think I learned fastest through what I hear. Something happens for me with listening where I'll hear a bunch of words and then I'd like cling on to something. Something will have.

Speaker 1: 11:10

I don't know if I want to go woo and say a different vibration, but it's as if it has more weight and then it has me pay attention a little more. Oh, what was that? And I get to just click that little button on the left and it goes back 10 seconds. Thank you, spotify. And I guess just to rehear it, versus if I'm. If it's in person, I can't, and if it's on YouTube, when you go back 10 seconds, it's not as quick and the YouTube app has to be open and sometimes people are making physical gestures that are included in their conversation and you can't catch it as quickly and it requires more of my attention. So for me, podcast the fact that I can go on, I can listen, I can be a fly on the wall, I can learn and in 30 minutes I know so much more than I did beforehand. I love that style of learning. That's what podcasts were for me prior to beginning.

Speaker 2: 12:05

I really learned this from Catherine because I thought this is such a great question, Because for me podcasts were just entertaining. I just listened to stories. And then I would talk to Catherine and she would say she would walk in the morning and listen to all these podcasts and hours of podcasts, that she had all this great information. I was like, send me that one, send me that one, I want to listen to that one. And it really expanded my repertoire of what's possible. And now I'm just, oh my God, have them all queued up ready to listen.

Speaker 1: 12:39

That's so funny, it's such a great point. I don't you both both of you ladies know listeners don't know. I don't really like conversational podcasts. I don't like things that are going on and on and on. It's harder for me to stay present. It requires a different part of me to step forward, and I'd like to reserve that for, like in real life interactions or for Olivia's podcast, like maybe somebody that I know, and so therefore, there's a different string or thread available that I'm like oh, I'm interested, right, but I don't really have that. Yeah, I don't. I'm not as entertained by those. It doesn't hold my attention. In the same way, it requires me to be more, so much more intentional to stay in the room.

Speaker 3: 13:30

When you were like originally seeding this idea, who was the one that was like, let's make this a podcast?

Speaker 1: 13:43

Mine Catherine.

Speaker 2: 13:45

It's so.

Speaker 1: 13:48

I can't even believe that it was me, but it was me.

Speaker 3: 13:51

I didn't know that. Yeah, we had a moment. Walk us through that.

Speaker 1: 13:59

I had a moment. It was on Clubhouse. We had the Desire Hour show on Clubhouse and we were interviewing. We had we normally had a panel. I don't remember if Lizzie was part of a panel, but I remember it was a conversation with Lizzie. She's such a special human, she. We have interviewed her already so she's in one of the podcasts Maybe you'll remember what number Brenda and let us know, but what episode.

Speaker 1: 14:28

I walked away from that podcast. I had felt the sensation before I had I walked away from that interview and the sensation was the world missed out on that conversation. And I don't say it lightly because, as I've already stated, like just conversations to me, like it's nice for people to love one another, but it's not like oh my God. You know, somebody should have been listening to what we just spoke about. But Lizzie's interview was so powerful that I said this is the first time ever in my life as a coach or guide doing something that's outward, facing, where people get to be part of it, where I felt that I was not in service and that I was not doing the project justice by staying in that smaller platform and that I had to now answer this call. I didn't know then what it would take to answer that call. But at that moment, so it was my decision and I said to Brenda I think we can't do it in this way anymore or in this form. This requires a different stage.

Speaker 2: 15:47

Yeah, we would touch these moments of God. That just came to me when I was listening to you talk, catherine. I never really phrased it or thought of it in that way before. I always thought of it as these, like deep juicy pockets. But as Catherine was just talking, I realized, oh, we had these moments of talking to people, that it felt like we were touching God, like it was so beautiful and what started as just one hour chatting about desire on Clubhouse, we would have people come on, we would have guests, and that was so much fun and the conversations just kept going deeper and deeper. And, catherine, I remember exactly where I was when she said that people are missing out. We need to make this a podcast.

Speaker 2: 16:40

I was like say what? And it really coincided perfectly, that was July of 2021. I wanted to take August off. It was like a big desire to take August off. I've always wanted to do that, and so we stopped recording on purpose not recording. We stopped going on Clubhouse with the intention to pick up again and make it a podcast. And it felt right, and that's what we've been doing ever since.

Speaker 3: 17:17

So it's like the desire came into creation in a different form on Clubhouse. You got to nurture it in that arena, pour your love into it, and then in doing that you're like, oh, this actually needs a different kind of house, this needs a different kind of platform, this needs a different kind of structure. And then, listening to that, it sounds like you went, you put it down for a while.

Speaker 2: 17:40

We put it down for like two years, yeah, almost.

Speaker 3: 17:45

I mean, that's such a beautiful representation of, like, how certain creative projects things that are true in the world. Sometimes they're just sitting and waiting for the next time we come around and pick them up and it's like, let's go. Let's like do this again in its new form, so bravo, because a lot of people may have that and then they never create the podcast.

Speaker 2: 18:10

So you did, we did, we did. And I want to clarify something in that about what I said when I said we put it down, we put it down but we also didn't. You know it's that we did that dance of holding the desire and keeping our attention on it but also just like not actively making it. You know, we just focused on our connection. We would meet weekly even though we weren't quote working on the podcast. We were developing our sisterhood and our friendship and our working relationship. We were building our capacity and it was like it would be Catherine and I and the podcast in the room in the conversation and the podcast was just, like you know, tucked up in bed quietly like drinking it it's hot chocolate and we would just go on. And it took way longer than we thought. We thought we would take August off and then start in September or October, but life happened and it took us on a ride.

Speaker 2: 19:12

You know, it took us on a ride and it, you know, it was perfect, like it was absolutely perfect. And then when we heard the call, we were like, oh, it's time, right, it's time.

Speaker 3: 19:29

I'm curious behind the scenes. You know you're sharing that there was so much that you were doing behind the scenes to nurture your relationship, your sisterhood, your connection, building your capacity. I'm curious about the behind the scenes of that. What was shifting in your relationship? What kind of conversations were you having? What was like really going on? You know things that people would never see Before the podcast came back out.

Speaker 2: 19:56

I want to say I feel like I was always crying. I just we were just coming to each other in life like whatever was happening in life and we were both in pretty big transitions and we would talk and we would have these really deep conversations. I just remember crying a lot.

Speaker 3: 20:19

Honestly.

Speaker 1: 20:22

That's so funny, I'll chime in. So she took July 2021 off and that in September there was a big like I don't know flood hurricane in New York and I had lost my car and the whole basement was flooded in my building, my storage unit was gone, like there were just life was lifeing and and what's interesting right now is Life was moving at such a fast pace for both of us at the time that I didn't really have the time to Beat myself up for not putting the podcast out or for not having created it. Let's say so in the background. It was sort of well, you know, I was talking to FEMA this week, or I was talking to the auditor or the car person or it's all the different Things. Like there was cleanup, there were people that had to come and take out, you know it was just and Brenda had her own things occurring and so, week to week, as we met, even though the podcast was in the room, it was sort of Becoming the women that we needed to become in order to be willing to commit and hold, as you said, olivia, this project in this new house Right.

Speaker 1: 21:41

Ideally, we have a podcast. We want to Drop something of value, produce something of value, be consistent with it, require it requires a certain amount of attention. Who are we interviewing? What are we talking about? What are the topics and that sort of thing. So, behind the scenes it was talking about when we were talking about the podcast, part of it was like how do you want it, what, what would you like for it to look like? What parts of desire do we want to talk about? So she and I are hashing this out. And Then there was this other piece that was underneath, that was occurring, that I didn't realize how important or powerful it was, which was the Enhancement of our friendship, right, like the, the strengthening of our collaboration, this our ability to get to know one another, to get to know each other's strengths.

Speaker 1: 22:39

It was beyond like, hey, how are you? Oh, she's, we have great sisterhood and I get to just chat, be myself and cry in front of her more of oh, she's a real stickler for the thumbnail, this is a big deal. She really cares about this, like it really matters, right. And then she probably learned that I'm a real stickler for a content and like information and what we're talking about and what is the end like, what is it that I really want to say I don't want to just Beyond here, like to a certain extent, yes, we can have flow and shoot the shit, but I have an intention Beyond that. So that was kind of what was happening behind the scenes, hmm can we just go back to the thumbnail for a second?

Speaker 1: 23:25

Yes, it took us months, months to do it months.

Speaker 2: 23:35

We have so many iterations of our thumbnail, so many we oh, my god, I can't even tell you.

Speaker 3: 23:43

And there was a moment I.

Speaker 2: 23:45

Just want to say we actually deleted them at one point because I was like we don't, I just don't want, I don't like clutter. Let's just go in Canva and let's just delete what we have. That's something else Brenda will delete things. But I also.

Speaker 1: 23:58

She asked permission now not I do, I ask permission.

Speaker 2: 24:01

I don't just delete things anymore. I've learned that. That was an old, hard lesson from a long time ago, like being a mother and a wife two decades ago. Truly I would like throw out people shit because I would be anxious about it. Anyway, that's a whole other thing. But I do not throw out anyone's anything anymore without asking permission. But we did decide to delete them and then we realized, oh my god, we want these back. It's like our history. It's the iterations of our thumbnail there. I mean, they were. Some of them were so bad. They were so bad, olivia, they were so bad.

Speaker 1: 24:39

Well, I was. I had the project and I said I don't know if I'm the best person for the project, but okay, let me see. Let me try and see what I can come up with. And I was coming, I was hitting walls. I was asking friends. I asked Kelly Mitchell to help me, I asked Rebecca Freedman to help me, I asked the Fania. So Fania was the best at this.

Speaker 2: 24:59

So fine. You're great. Yes, she is a great millennial for this. Oh my god, thank God for her. No, she really helped us actually. Seriously, the the end result of our thumbnail has, like Safanya's, love all over it. Thank you, stefania.

Speaker 1: 25:13

Yes thank you so much, stefania, because I think it would have been a few more months without her help.

Speaker 2: 25:19

And then we would go back into Canva. We were like what she did in, like I'm not I'm not kidding 15 seconds and I'm being probably overestimating we would together be in Canva going how did she do that? Like, how did she turn this thing? And we would try to recreate it. We were like we're just like two Gen Xers trying to like work with technology.

Speaker 1: 25:42

Seriously, oh my god, oh the struggle is real, the struggle is real.

Speaker 2: 25:47

The learning curve is real, the struggle is real. It was really funny.

Speaker 3: 25:52

How does this, this particular? I think this encapsulates so much, what it encapsulates like when you really don't know how to do that kind of shit. It is so hard and it is you can really literally spend months on it, like I believe you, I believe you happened, and Not only you spending months or something, but you're also dealing with two different styles, right? So someone Having one preference and someone having another. So I'm really curious how this you know that how Thumbnail gate, how that has been a beautiful gift and lesson for you as you've gone on to create together this podcast. Like what? What was the gift of that time and how is it still alive inside of the creation of the podcast?

Speaker 1: 26:38

Such a good question I can share. For me I Don't really care as much. I'm like, done and done not by me is amazing. So Brenda handles that and it's Fantastic because she has a particular eye for if something's level or not level, like the dense distance of things. I don't know if it's that I'm more blind with than her and I need a different pair of glasses, but I just. I mean I Could also share that. Just the other day I learned how to actually make an image bigger in canvas so I can actually see it. I didn't know you can move a little, lover. I mean, I don't want to talk tech stuff. I didn't realize. I'm like oh yes, brenda, you can see it so much better when you.

Speaker 2: 27:31

Catherine, this is what cat this is. I love her so much. Oh my gosh, when we were learning how to Download and upload the video and the audio to like create the episode, she had us like create a list of like how to do it. So we have like multiple Spreadsheets of like all the steps for things, which is out of my preferences but also really super useful.

Speaker 1: 28:01

So, yeah, it's Brenda's like, it's okay, we'll figure it. I'm like, no, no, no, we're doing it right now, let's just so. We were side by side, computer to computer. I'm like, okay, we're doing this next and we put it. It's like an operation thing, because I'm not gonna remember, I'm gonna need someone to walk me through it again and I can't tell you how Useful that spreadsheet was for me in the beginning and and not the spreadsheet that we're talking about is like once you download the audio from this place and then you have to mix it and Garage band because that's how we use it right now, etc. And I was, I took on that job. I said, okay, you like thumbnails and Canva, I'll take this piece.

Speaker 2: 28:42

Thank God, thank you for that, by the way.

Speaker 3: 28:48

So this is great, like you're really learning and then playing to and then kind of like Shifting the creative project in a way where everyone gets to do what they enjoy and they get at. Would that be accurate?

Speaker 2: 29:06

Yeah, yeah and also, like Catherine said, she doesn't. Certain things she doesn't care about that much and certain things she does. I think it's like in any partnership. You know, sometimes I do, I do care about, you know, the spacing of things or and I do have an eye for it. So that's mine to say you know, and she trusts my sight there.

Speaker 2: 29:31

And then I trust her sight on other things, like when she insisted that we have she knows what's coming and she's right. This is this is great Catherine story. She insisted that the way we start our podcast is Like a classroom, having different topics for the first Number of episodes, which ended up being eight. So the first eight episodes of this podcast is like a course on desire.

Speaker 2: 30:00

I mean an intro course, because there's so much more and I I was like let's interview people, let's get people on and talk about desire and talk about the stories. Because to me like going back to your other question that's what a podcast was and I do learn well through stories. I like that. So I really she insisted, and it was like one of those places in a partnership where I could feel how much it meant to her and I Really let her lead there and it was wise and I also thought, oh, there's something for me to learn here, because I do love stories and we do have that on the podcast. And One thing I've learned, my goodness in relationships is, my way is not always the best way. It's often not, and so let's do it. Let's do it her way and let's see what happens. And I think I'm so glad that we did because it's we have these gorgeous eight episodes. She's laughing.

Speaker 1: 31:09

I'm laughing because I it was really, really important to me and I was not willing to budge there.

Speaker 2: 31:18

It was like I felt it.

Speaker 1: 31:19

It was a non-negotiable. I was like we are doing it, this, this is gonna happen.

Speaker 2: 31:23

But we're doing this. She was like this is it? I Felt I.

Speaker 1: 31:31

Felt like that was the best way for us to be of service. Especially, it had taken so long to you know, being on the drawing board and Strengthening our friendship, looking at the collaboration, thinking about what we wanted the desire as medicine podcast to be and, for me, learning about desire. I'm a Gen X her, and I don't ever remember what I wanted being a big deal growing up. It was what kind of job you needed to get, what kind of man you needed to marry, where you want, what socioeconomic class you wanted. You had to choose things that were the there's a word I'm looking for like the safe choice Almost. It was the way that you insured safety and longevity in your life. And then to be to go into, once I was in right, the coaching world and different coaching courses etc. And to find out. Wait a second, there's this whole energy. You're our life force. So we can see it in a different way. We can look at it from the place of desire and Once we start answering that and Feeling into it, we're tapping into a, a power like no other.

Speaker 1: 32:53

It doesn't mean we have to do everything that it's really it's asking of us, but it helps us learn about ourselves better than anything I have found. I want to bring this to the world, but I don't want anybody to get lost in lingo. I want it to be simple, as if a Five-year-old could understand it. But I do click on explicit, because I do use explicit language a lot, so we can't have it just be that way that. So it was really important to me. I really wanted to make sure that if I was entering into this conversation, that I would bring that, because I knew, especially for exers Jen Xers, that this was not part of how we lived our lives. It was not part of our Generation at all.

Speaker 2: 33:36

That's really beautiful. It's so beautiful and I want to. I want to just say that it was confronting to do all of those episodes at the forefront and I think it was probably easier to just go into. Let's interview people and tell stories. But to really show up and Do these episodes on these topics was Confronting and I was like, oh shit, we're gonna have to do it. And we we recorded. It took us a while to get those first episode eight episodes out like recorded and we recorded two in a row one day. I think it was like obligation and compensatory desire. That was it. I was just knocked out from those episodes I was like I don't know what happened.

Speaker 2: 34:29

We're probably just gonna have to redo them. I was so knocked out from these topics Because when you're talking about these topics, it really has me look at my life and it's it's an ongoing inquiry, right.

Speaker 3: 34:45

So I'm I'm really grateful to Catherine for Having that desire, expressing it and insisting and this is exactly what our podcast is about how how these desires help us grow hmm, one thing I want to reflect it to the two of you is and I'm feeling it as we're speaking today and I felt it when I've listened to the podcast is there's something really generous about doing it in the way that you've done it, like really laying the foundations of something first and not skipping over that. Like actually taking the time to Sit in the discomfort of the expert seat and Say, hey, like we have some expertise here and some wisdom and we're also women of a similar age and, as Catherine said, you're, like I, recognizing that maybe women of our age may not have received this. Like it's such a grand service to recognize that and then also go and do it and to have this. So that part I just want to reflect back to you that it's something that I've really felt in listening to it how generous the podcast feels and how good it feels coming from both of you and you can really feel the wisdom that exists and you can really feel the ownership that you've taken over the wisdom and the expertise. Like, hey, we're actually going to take up some space here and we're gonna. We're gonna share with you and we're not gonna take for granted that people know this Right, this is, people might need to hear this a hundred times. I listened to it. I'm like, yep, thank you for that. Forgot that one needed that one Right. So there's that piece. And then also to not Just go gung-ho with that, but also to recognize hey, we want to bring some juice in, we want to interview people, we want other people's voices in there and to not abandon that desire either.

Speaker 3: 36:46

And one thing I've heard you say a lot on the pod is about Practition. We're practitioners and we're on the mat, like. I've heard you say that multiple times. You said it earlier as well, and I think that I'd love to ask you about that, because some people wouldn't describe themselves as practitioners and wouldn't describe their lives as being lives of service, and they wouldn't describe their podcast as being on the mat. And so I'm curious for both of you and and maybe you have similar responses, maybe you have different responses I'm curious for you how that's evolved, like what, what, what you came in with in terms of thinking what the mat was and then what the map looks like now, and has it evolved? I'm assuming it has.

Speaker 1: 37:36

We're both staring at each other here. Who's gonna take this one? I Feel like a practitioner all the time. I don't know if it's age or life. I Just for my listeners I just celebrated my 50th birthday, so I'm definitely in my full crone here and I've studied it so much Around Personal development, desire, relationship, life force, patterns, habits, change, like the things that we think about when we're really looking at our humanity and we're looking at what kind of woman do I want to be?

Speaker 1: 38:27

I do feel that to a certain extent, I have some expertise and some wisdom and at the same time, I'm a beginner, like the more I know, the less I know. I Don't know how they both exist, but they do both exist. Whenever something new comes in to my life that knocks me out, reminds me that I'm on the mat, like this is, this is where I'm at, and the being of service piece for me is Part of my mission. That when I was growing up, when I was a young woman, young lady, young girl, I Really didn't have that many women around me that had what I was looking for. I didn't have any evidence of it.

Speaker 1: 39:09

Like people talk about, evidence of models of not a model just on a magazine but like Can there be a woman astronaut, woman president, woman architect? Like these are the things that we used to think about when I was growing up. I think they weren't like little girl astronaut outfits, right, a little girl astra, or little girl spider-man things. But to bring it even closer, I don't think I had that many women that loved their lives, that loved being a woman, that really felt inner freedom and they felt that they were in their power. And if I can offer even one woman the opportunity to feel into that, it's possible To be a woman and be free inside and still feel your power without having to put other people before you. I've done my job.

Speaker 2: 40:08

Thank you for that. I Love when you speak to that. You really speak to that beautifully and I concur with everything Catherine said and I. I want to add this piece about it's like an interesting dance of I'm a practitioner and I'm on the mat and I'm always learning and a certain claiming of the wisdom of my path. It's like owning, owning both.

Speaker 2: 40:38

And though I I'm 55 and I'm still on the mat, I think there is this certain piece of the older you get, you realize like you get more humble because I'm like, wow, there's so much I don't know and I keep learning more and more about myself from the past, present and like what I want in the future. And there's just a wisdom that I've cultivated and an education that I've had, a formal education and a Self-actualization education which has been, I think, my best education that I just need to own and and claim and and Then there's a humility in that as well and I've learned by watching other women on the path how to hold that pose and I think it's a beautiful pose. That's been a desire that I've helped for myself is, how do I own this stuff and the knowledge and the wisdom that I have and my experience without ego, with like Claiming it, but with a humility and an openness and being of service, and that has been quite a path of learning and it feels so great. It feels, feels really grounded in my body and I think that's what I want to talk about. Like that's what I want to share on this podcast. That's what it means to me to be a practitioner, and I also really Love watching Catherine share our podcast.

Speaker 2: 42:12

She will take your phone and say, oh, follow us here, you want to follow our podcast? She's like let me show you and she'll open up someone's Spotify with permission. This is all with permission and I'm like oh, you can do that, all right. So I've been doing that more too, and for me that's more like claiming it, like that this is happening and I just taught three vision board workshops in the last week in person here and I Generously talked about the podcast and anyone that was interested. I'll show you on your phone, let's open up your phone, follow, and they're now following our podcast, like owning it in that way.

Speaker 2: 42:59

Hmm and it's fun. People want it and and it is a service. It's a service because when someone says they want it, you're just, I'm just backing them, you can have it right.

Speaker 3: 43:14

It's so beautiful to hear the way that you two support each other and also inspire one another.

Speaker 3: 43:19

I Think that's such a such a quality of a well partnered partnership Right that you have these like you're.

Speaker 3: 43:30

You're so clearly your own people I know that because I know you both really well but you're so clearly your own people in this creation and it's beautiful to feel how alive the partnership feels and how the it's like you've got this Catherine, this Brenda, and then there's the podcast and then there's the, the relationship between those three things, and I can feel the way that it's like flowing and feeding, which I think is so beautiful.

Speaker 3: 43:57

And I think that's such a essence of what You've really taken a stand for on the podcast. It is to be the kinds of women who hear that voice of truth inside us. They create this thing and you're like I'm gonna do it, and not only I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it with someone, we're gonna do it together and we're gonna sit, and we're gonna sit in the podcast studio and the years prior and the lead up figure this out. We're not gonna abandon this thing. I think that on its own, as women, is a revolutionary act like this is. This is the thing that I think so many women dream of To back themselves in this way.

Speaker 2: 44:38

Yeah, exactly, beautifully said. And there was this one moment Catherine and I have been like underground, you know, with the podcast, in the bed with the hot chocolate, and we were working on it, working on it, working on the thumbnail I love when you said thumbnail gate, that's my new favorite and we had all these things to do as, as we started getting ready to Let it out into the world, we suddenly had all these things to do and I heard this voice that was said we need to spend a lot of time together. And I said to Catherine I have this desire I'll come over, I'll sleep over, we'll spend two days together. We could spend all a Friday night just dropping in and then all day Saturday We'll be our podcast intensive and We'll just like work on it and like get it done. So we had it all planned and it ends it up that we had to cancel.

Speaker 2: 45:31

I wasn't able to come over, for whatever reason. Anyway, we started meeting in person. After that, we started meeting in person. I would go to Catherine's apartment. She would cook for me, I would travel to her apartment and she would cook all this amazing food and it was just like this great partnership in that way and this great exchange and we would sit in person and that was actually the thing that helped us, like birth it out into the world, was all that time together and her turkey meatloaf really helped.

Speaker 2: 46:06

I.

Speaker 3: 46:10

Have also experienced staying with Catherine and I can Concur that you are very well fed. Oh her talk, catherine. She really takes care of her guests.

Speaker 1: 46:22

I want to add something here. I don't know exactly what part of the question, oliver, you asked that had me think of this, but it's true, brenda and I are very different, and I remember when I thought to myself Brenda would be the perfect person to collaborate with and talk about desire, because I felt like she just really held I'm trying to think of a different word, because in our lineage it would be called like the pole of the pole for desire. She, she just did desire so well, in my opinion, when she wanted something, she followed the thread, she really backed herself. I thought she would be a great person to communicate with around this, and the truth is that we did have different preferences right, she could of how we relate to one another. What are ideal hangouts look like?

Speaker 1: 47:22

And somehow the time and I say somehow because I don't, I don't have another, another word for it I just know that the result was oh, we've spent this time together, we've invested in our friendship, and I love her in a way now where, if the thumbnail is important, then great, and I think that she respects me in a way that, if you know, I think that this episode should have this kind of structure. That's more of my strength, right, like the structure of a conversation. Then she's like okay, fine, like it. Or she'll say I have a desire for X, but she will revert that to me and it feels really generative and I am experiencing something in this collaboration and in this friendship that I potentially haven't in the past, because I think in most cases it wouldn't have gotten this far, like I would have probably abandoned ship because there were some places where we just could not, it just wasn't, potentially, the friendship wasn't there yet to have this level of respect and love. But we stayed in the room because of the service piece, because of the desire for the desire as medicine podcast, like we were.

Speaker 1: 48:40

We stayed in the room because we were committed to this bigger project and in that I think we learned these things. I'll share that. How that looks now in today's version is before we drop an episode, we'll go over show notes and we kind of look at the thumbnail, we go over these pieces and she was changing something and she said oh, I hope this didn't bother you. I think she was asking just kind of like a check in and I was like no, hey, I love and respect you if that's your opinion, like I believe you, and I was like, oh wow, we're there at that place in collaboration and friendship that if something really means something to someone like I, trust that she can see something I can't see and I, we just move on to the next thing.

Speaker 3: 49:24

It leads me really nicely into this question, that's kind of been on my lips for the last five minutes and I am really I'm curious about your dreams around the podcast and my first question is your dreams around your creative partnership. What do you most desire from what you've built together in your partnership? Like what would be the next, like I'm not sure what you're going to do with it, and maybe you both don't know this about each other and maybe you do know, but I'm curious, like, what are you most? What do you most desire? What is the big, the big dream for what would be possible? Brenda?

Speaker 2: 50:10

Wow, what a great question. Such a great question. We've we've been talking about this because we've hit us a little bit of a blow where we took 20 episodes for us to like, hit this place of like. Okay, we know how to do this piece, like we've built our capacity and what's next? What do we want next and we want to do? We want to start with some events. This is all. Catherine, too, I have to be honest. Yeah, she was like let's have some events. I mean, it was co-created, but she named this particular one and we actually have some on the calendar. We have an online online event. I think it's February 8th and then I think it's the first Tuesday of every month. Is that right? That are online where?

Speaker 2: 51:12

there's a desire events Thursday Okay, thank you. First Thursday of every month and we're we're not sure what they're going to be yet where we started developing it. Actually, we did. We did develop the last one. Catherine was talking, we were talking and it just like it was like poof and like the little, the little head sprouted out and I wrote it down when we're going to take people through some desire exercises and what they want. So you know, when we have ideas for, like in-person events and I don't know, maybe Catherine can expand more than that. I'm not, I can't see further than that yet.

Speaker 1: 51:55

I think this talks more to our personality and our preferences, right, like I'm like let's do an event. I think that we have to figure this out. Oh, I'm like I've seen this thing that's happening in person and Brenda's like maybe we start recording video. I think she forgot this and I'm like I don't think we're there yet, but we can work towards it. So we're considering. Potentially it will require us to come to our to record as a different version of ourselves. If we're now investing not just in audio but also in video, right. Then we have other questions. Are we going to be putting this up on YouTube? Is it just going to be clips for Instagram, like? Are we doing something with social around this? So that's in the thoughts, nothing's in the calendar. On that one, we're not ready yet.

Speaker 2: 52:45

No, that's like one of those like seedlings of desire, that's like under the dirt that we're really just not ready for yet, but it's like we could see it. It's there, but it's like, okay, we're just going to like, water it and like let it, let it just stay.

Speaker 1: 53:01

For me, I'm really not there, it's not really even in my desire, but I know that my co-host like this is definitely something that I think it's more, she's closer to it. I can feel it in her when she sees a clip or she's like, oh, this one, this sounded really cool, let's set it. I'm like, oh yeah, it's definitely brewing in her a lot more and I can see it. It's so interesting when you're in collaboration and you can see someone, your, your partner, right Become, so turned on by something.

Speaker 1: 53:28

I'm like oh, I can see her getting all juicy and flowy around this topic. I'm assuming she probably feels the same when I'm talking about like oh, this is what it's going to look like when we're in person, right I?

Speaker 2: 53:40

don't. I don't even want to do video right now, like I'm not ready for it at all, but I feel the truth of it for the future. I think that's what it is and I am not ready for it either, like it just takes all of us to show up all of me I'll speak for myself to show up and be present, and there's so many things going on when we're recording. You know, I taught sixth grade for 22 years and in a in a classroom, you know how many things are happening at once when you're up there teaching in front of the room, and it's the same thing here. This is so much happening and I'm just growing my capacity for that, to be honest.

Speaker 3: 54:25

Hmm, Are there any audacious desires that perhaps you would never say publicly? But since we're here to expose, we're here to expose maybe some of the things that you wouldn't voice without an interview or anything that maybe just something that completely outrageous for the podcast? I'm a friend of Catherine Damn.

Speaker 2: 55:03

Probably having on some guests that are really sensational that we're probably not ready for Any mind.

Speaker 3: 55:15

Well, you, Olivia, we're ready for that you know it would be really amazing to have a friend To have some of our teachers on.

Speaker 2: 55:26

I would love to have Nicole de Donan and talk about desire. I mean, holy crap, you know that's amazing, so, but I don't know that we're there yet and maybe she'll listen to this and she'll say I'm coming on, catherine's going to kill me. I'm just saying I think that would be kind of outrageous is to have on these like killer teachers, amazing people, people that I look up to. She would be one example.

Speaker 3: 56:02

So good Thanks for playing. I can feel it.

Speaker 1: 56:07

For me, the audacious desire and I have spoken to Brenda about this is to have clients on.

Speaker 1: 56:14

It would be a different kind of interview Sometimes you know we're not really talking about a coach and and their business and how desire has shaped their lives and putting their web address and all that other stuff in the show notes. This is more of this is what it looks like for a civilian who has like a regular nine to five job or et cetera, and what it has been like for them to follow on this path and what it looks like to not have to crash and burn, like not have to say yes to every single desire that comes up. But what it has felt like to turn on fully and be responsible for what you say yes to. That for me feels really audacious because, yeah, I don't know what kind of anonymity or you know people would need or want, especially somebody who's not you know, who's just on social, to be social, not on social to to dare their deepest, darkest right. That for me, would be the next iteration. Like I am amping up for that. I would really love, love to do that soon.

Speaker 1: 57:28

Like that's something that really makes me happy because I remember earlier on in my journey when I used to hear teachers or somebody who felt that they had a certain amount of expertise in something, say how you know they set a boundary and nobody does this to them anymore.

Speaker 1: 57:46

Or you know they were able to be vulnerable and now they can just be vulnerable everywhere, or in and I'm saying it, mocking it a little bit, because it's easy to look at that and say, oh, yes, because well, clearly it's easy for you to say that because you live this and breathe this day in and day out. You are immersed in this. But what does it look like for someone that you know has been on the path for maybe three months or six months or a year or two years and and it's not their number one priority that they're in the work and they're on the mat, in addition to being a mom and a wife, um yeah, and just potentially a student? Like what does that feel like to be in the work, letting desire lead your life, letting desire be part of a whisper in your life, a contributing factor, and still, yeah, that's, that's what I want.

Speaker 3: 58:41

So beautiful. I love the like, the textures and tones of both of those, like the expansiveness of having a teacher and someone you really look up to and someone that may have really served your path, and like the sensation of holding that and then, on the other side of it, somebody that you've served, somebody that has a life that might, might look different to yours as a teacher, and a holder that has just as much value and wisdom as they integrate this, this beautiful work, into their everyday lives.

Speaker 1: 59:11

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 59:12

So good. Thank you so much for playing there. I feel this, um, I feel us like coming to the end of our time and wrapping up, and I'm curious if there's anything else you want to say to complete this conversation, or if you, if you want to share a gratitude to each other, or the podcast itself or this process, like stake in the ground for this moment. First interview big success in what you've already created. What, what, what do you need to say? What would you like to say to close this out?

Speaker 2: 59:51

I want to say how grateful and in awe I am of this podcast and the process of it, Like I've worked with desire for so many years and it. You know it's so messy at first and it still could be messy, but the way that we birthed this podcast, from start till now, and even the desires that you just asked us about, has been so gorgeous. I don't know that I've ever held any project in this particular way before. You know where it was like in one form. Well, Catherine invited me. She said do you want to talk about desire publicly? And then we put it down and then it it berthed to something else and it took a long time to do it and we held it, and we held it and we it changed forms.

Speaker 2: 1:00:51

It's something that I think is really beautiful. It's so feminine and I'm so proud of it and grateful to Catherine for being my partner in this, because I certainly could never have done this alone. Like this is a co-creation, 100%, and I think it's a really great model and bookmark for me in my own body and in my own life of what's possible with desire. You know, in relationship, in professionally, in all the ways, what's possible, and I just have this embodied experience of it, of of birthing it and also staying with my capacity all along and in partnership with somebody else and her capacity and our strengths and all the things. So it's just been an absolutely beautiful process. Thank you for that question.

Speaker 3: 1:01:58

Really stunning, Brenda. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:02:01

That was such a great question. As expected, olivia has not disappointed on the questions. I am really grateful for simply Brenda saying yes and being willing, for her willingness to show up I know I can I have my own personality, it's not all perfect, right, I can be a little stickler about things and the fact that she stayed on the mat with me, I'm grateful. I'm grateful to the podcast, I'm grateful for the desire, for the desire to even follow the whisper, to be in service in this way, and I'm going to share gratitude. I'm not sure if it's going to come out with the right words, but I'm grateful for this version of me.

Speaker 1: 1:02:50

I have not seen myself back something like this podcast in my life ever before.

Speaker 1: 1:02:57

This desire definitely brought out of me something that I didn't know was in there, where there were moments where I was like I am not putting this down, I'm going to do this, and it has helped me come to a place, like Brenda said earlier today in the call to a place of flow, where we're sort of like bobbing and weaving and we know our different roles, like where we're strong, where our strengths are, what she's responsible for, what I'm responsible for, how we connect and collaborate.

Speaker 1: 1:03:30

There are some things that are just going smoothly and I never could have imagined that version of me before doing this. I could not have imagined how I would grow and be stretched in this project and how much I have absolutely loved every minute of this, like the minute someone is excited about potentially listening to the podcast and I do open their phone and hit follow. Or the minute I have a DM come in and somebody tell me how they've been listening to the podcast and how it had them, how it's impacted them. Every time I get a voice note, a DM, an email. That feedback just reminds me of why I'm in the room, and this question allowed me the opportunity to look at and celebrate the woman that I've become in this project. Thank you for that.

Speaker 3: 1:04:29

Thank you both for your commitment to this beautiful gift to the world. I feel it in this conversation, I felt it the whole way through. I feel it in your excitement and your appreciation for each other and what the gift of this desire has given you. And I feel it way beyond here, just in our everyday life the way that your commitment to this thing has nurtured so many things around you, and I know that for anybody listening that's also a listener. I also want to express their gratitude to you, because I can only imagine what it's been like for the people that have been traveling all the way up until this point and get to receive this. So thank you for being those women in the world, and I am also really grateful that you invited me on to do this with you. It's been such a pleasure.

Speaker 2: 1:05:21

Such a treat Olivia.

Speaker 3: 1:05:22

Such a treat.

Speaker 2: 1:05:23

Thank you so much. This was amazing. I loved your questions. Thank you so much for holding us here.

Speaker 3: 1:05:31

My absolute pleasure.

Speaker 1: 1:05:41

Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine podcast Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply intimate with ourselves and others. You can find our handles in the show notes. We'd love to hear from you.